Am I Spinning?

So, some commenters in my post below think that I am trying to play the expectations game by listing all of the various ways that the Connecticut Senate primary might be too close to call. To be perfectly honest, they are both right and wrong.

First, why they are wrong. I did not write a single false thing in that article. Everything that I wrote I both believe and is a real possibility. In my gut, I still do not expect Lamont to blow Lieberman out. Given the difficulty of polling on this race, it is a real possibility that the race is closer than either the 54-41 from Quinnipiac or the 53-43 from Research 2000. Further, I don't know exactly what the internal numbers are (and I don't want to know, for fear of leaking), but I hear from people I trust that while Lamont is ahead in such polls, he is not ahead by as much as he is in either the Q-poll or the Research 2000 poll. It is also a real possibility that Lieberman's ground game will surpass Lamont's, and that this will help Lieberman gain a few points. It is also possible that the new voter registration numbers could be a nice boast for Lieberman. It is further possible that the high media attention to this race will turnout more low information voters, and that those voters will lean Lieberman. All of these are real possibilities, and after twelve years of experiencing little except electoral defeat for my favorite candidates in American politics, I am inclined to be pessimistic and assume that most or all of these possibilities are true.

Of course, like I said, those people who accused me of spinning or playing the expectations game are also correct. While everything that I wrote above is both very possible and something my gut tells me to believe, I also know that there are another set of pro-Lamont possibilities that I intentionally did not list. These possibilities could very well allow Lamont to not only win, but to actually crush Lieberman on August 8th. Until they happen, I am not inclined to believe them, but here they are:
  • Despite 100% name recognition, Lieberman is stuck in the low forties in all public polls. This means that on Election Day, he will either stay in the low forties or, at best, move up to the mid-forties. Undecideds tend to break for challengers, which could bode very well for Lamont.

  • As both Mystery Pollster and Chris Barnes have argued, the current likely voter models being used for the primary could very well be undercounting liberals. This would mean that Lamont could surge even further ahead on Election Day, since he holds a commanding, more than 2-1 lead among liberals right now.

  • The trend in this race is up, up and up for Lamont. In fact, since late April, he has consistently gained about one point every two days against Lieberman. This trend seems to continue no matter what the Lieberman campaign and its allies attempt. We have seen no reason to believe that this trend will suddenly reverse in the final week of the campaign.

  • As Jambro has argued, of all the new Democratic registrations that have come since May 8th, not a single one has come from a registered Republican. Considering the Lamont surge, and the general progressive excitement on the ground, it could very well be that the majority of these new registrations are pro-Lamont. For a while now, liberals have not had a tendency to register as Democrats, but the buzz about this campaign could very well have changed that trend in CT.

  • Lamont's ground game could very well be superior to Lieberman's. Back during the spring, the Lamont campaign developed a huge voter ID field program as a result of needing so many signatures to get on the ballot. By contrast, Lieberman did not start his field operation and voter ID campaign until recently, so it may very well not be as well developed. Further, while Lieberman has a couple thousand paid canvassers, Lamont has several thousand actual volunteers. Three months ago, when I visited, they said they had over 2,500 volunteers--who knows how many they have by now.
Now, if all of those possibilities are true, then Lamont will indeed trounce Lieberman on August 8th by at least 10%. However, as an American progressive, I have grown twenty-five times burned, fifty times shy when it comes to making grand political predictions for my candidates. These pro-Lamont possibilities could very well be true, but my gut tells me that the pro-Lieberman possibilities are more likely. In addition to listening to my gut, I did not bother to list most of these pro-Lamont possibilities because I did not really see where it would get us with three days left. Claiming that Lamont would win by 15 could soften pro-Lamont activism on the ground, make me look stupid if it doesn't happen, sink all of our spirits if it doesn't happen, and actually help Lieberman after August 8th if it suddenly looks like he beats expectations in the primary. What good would that do us? The way I figured it, if the pro-Lamont possibilities are in fact the reality, then on August 8th, we can be pleasantly surprised and celebrate late into the night. Right now, however, we need to take all of the pro-Lieberman possibilities as seriously as we can, because otherwise we could see an historic victory slip from our grasp. If I was spinning, I was spinning by omission and by the pessimism the last several years of politics have beaten into me. Call it what you want, but I think it is the attitude we all need to have. Let's not cause a fit of self-congratulation to result in a lack of much needed activism.



Display:


Re: Am I Spinning? (none / 0)

Not that my opinion counts for much- but for the record, I got the point of your previous post to be let's not count a win, until we actually win. It was meant to keep people sober about the what ifs, to not get cocky, and to remain (whover is there locally) involved until the polls close on Tues. Also, for the record, I think other posters are lacking in political common sense, but this is just me. Who sits there a weekend before the actual election focusing on what's going right. in short, I wish more democrats would show a little less arrogance as your previous post did, and alittle more stick to the bottom line attitude that you were trying to convey. Finally, I don't think you need to explain yourself- Ithink people simply aren't willing to let reality into play- that right now we have a lot of what-ifs, and you were playing the bad side of the what ifs to keep peo motivated.


by bruh21 on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 03:53:25 PM EST

Well said. (none / 0)

I still remember the gleeful celebrations across the blogosphere of Kerry's impending victory over Bush based on exit polls. People were already posting "Why we won" commentaries on Kerry's superior GOTV effort in their blog diaries before a single vote had been counted.

The blogosphere celebrations of Lieberman's demise seem similarly premature.
 


by Wayne in Missouri on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 04:02:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Well said. (none / 0)

I still remember the gleeful celebrations across the blogosphere of Kerry's impending victory over Bush based on exit polls. People were already posting "Why we won" commentaries on Kerry's superior GOTV effort in their blog diaries before a single vote had been counted.

Does JoMo control CT's voting machines as Bush did OH's?


With Democrats Lieberman goes for the jugular. With Republicans he goes for the lips.
by Sitkah on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 06:38:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

"This is just me." (none / 0)

"I think other posters are lacking in political common sense, but this is just me."

Yep. It's just you.

You're buying into a faulty either-or dilemma:

- Either arrogantly assume the election is in the bag or ...

- Pessimistically fret over how Lucy is about to pull the football away again just as we get to the ball.

There are many other possibilities for inspiring the troops to keep fighting without posting in panic that a morning reading of the numbers show that we're in serious trouble.


by Thresholder on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 04:06:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "This is just me." (none / 0)

its arrogance when you dont have the votes in yet- its just that simple.


by bruh21 on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 07:02:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Am I Spinning? (none / 0)

I predicted Lamont by 17% and I'm sticking with it.


With Democrats Lieberman goes for the jugular. With Republicans he goes for the lips.
by Sitkah on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 03:54:14 PM EST

Re: Am I Spinning? (none / 0)

17% is being at least a little unrealistic.  I'd like to believe that, but I can't.  I'm going to guess Lamont by 6%.


by blueryan on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 06:39:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Am I Spinning? (none / 0)

Spinning like Lieberman in his political grave.  But what is spin really besides clarification?


by Lucas O'Connor on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 03:55:32 PM EST

I appreciate your response, Man. (3.00 / 1)

And we're all out here hanging on by our fingernails here.

I appreciate what you are saying about numbers and possibilities. But Chris, my man think about this:

"If I was spinning, I was spinning by omission and by the pessimism the last several years of politics have beaten into me."

Look. You're a general, Man. You may not want to acknowledge that. But you are a very important leader in the movement.

As a general, you can benefit inwardly from the wisdom/pessimism learned through hard experience.

But you shouldn't show it, man. You can't lead your troops with bouts of pessimism.

"Let's not cause a fit of self-congratulation to result in a lack of much needed activism."

See, that's not the only alternative to this pessimistic spin by ommission. No one wants our leaders to start celebrating the win or encouraging a slackening of effort.

But there are ways to acknowledge and deal with threats and dnagers without showing pessimism. You can show full respect for Napoleon's Imperial Guard columns ... without inviting your infantry to give in to their own fears and pessimism.

You need to lead us with hope, man. Be realistic. Be tiough. Demand relentless effort. That's all cool. Remind us that these bastards have burned us over and over.

But funnel all that passion into a steady resolve under fire. Lead your troops with hope, man.

We're all behiund you guys. Go to CT and kick ass. We believe in what you're doing.


by Thresholder on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 04:02:21 PM EST

So now Atrios sez, ... (none / 0)

That it will be a miracle if Lamont pulls it off.

And he links to your earlier post for evidence.

Is that the message you want to send, Chris?

We need a miracle to win this one?


by Thresholder on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 04:14:03 PM EST

You're beginng to sound very shrillish (none / 0)

Dude, Chris was just stating the facts ie don't get complacent or overconfident.

I don't see where he said we should get pessimistic. He was just saying," Hey, let's close the deal, and seal it bigtime." That's all.

This is just ridiculous nitpicking on your part.


by rosebowl on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 04:23:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You're beginng to sound very shrillish (none / 0)

"Chris was just stating the facts ie don't get complacent or overconfident."

Them's the facts, eh? Those two choices and no others?

Uh huh.

Tell you what. Head over to Atrios and read the comments attached to his it'll-take-a-miracle post. AMong the posts that actually respond to the point, the vast majority have already assumed we will lose and are lapsing into a stupor of accepting inertia.

Of course, the kibitzers on Atrios are not going to decide anything in CT. Nor will I.

But I smell the stink of defeatism in the blogo-wind right now and I don't like it.

Nitpicky? Shrill?

Well, I guess.


by Thresholder on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 04:42:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The blogs are not sounding defeatist (none / 0)

If you can't tell the difference between cautious optimism and defeatism, then it's not wonder you're misrepresenting what Chris and other bloggers are saying.

Elections are not won by polls- they are won with votes. That's why it's important not to get complacent at all. Afterall, the Lieberman team looks like they have very good GOTV operation. I'm not so sure about Lamont's.  


by rosebowl on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 04:59:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Cold Hard Facts (none / 0)

There is spinning, there is being spun and there is the cold, hard facts.

I didn't think you were spinning in your earlier post; I thought you were trying to stand still to get a clear look.


by James Earl on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 04:17:12 PM EST

Re: Am I Spinning? (none / 0)

"If I was spinning, I was spinning by omission and by the pessimism the last several years of politics have beaten into me."

"Look. You're a general, Man. You may not want to acknowledge that. But you are a very important leader in the movement."

It's so obvious that it doesn't matter whether it's acknowledged or not.

Spinning has become so much a part of the political culture that, for 99% of politicos, it's done with as little awareness and effort as exhaling.  

Long exposure has caused me to skim right over it unless it's done so crudely as to cause nausea.


With Democrats Lieberman goes for the jugular. With Republicans he goes for the lips.
by Sitkah on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 04:26:48 PM EST

Re: Am I Spinning? (none / 0)

The Lamont field operation is an open question.  Lieberman is really really moving on GOTV.


by Matt Stoller on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 04:32:26 PM EST

Re: Am I Spinning? (none / 0)

Matt, could you give us distant outsiders some sort of actual information about what that means?

What besides hanging things on doorknobs is Lieberman's ground force actually able to do in CT?

Can he really motivate low-information voters to out-vote the passionate folks behind Lamont? And how would he do that?


by Thresholder on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 04:44:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Am I Spinning? (none / 0)

"Lieberman is really really moving on GOTV."

Why would anyone think JoMo's GOTV operation will be run any more effectively than any other aspect of his miserable campaign?

He thinks he was annointed by god who will herd his voters to the polls like sheep.


With Democrats Lieberman goes for the jugular. With Republicans he goes for the lips.
by Sitkah on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 04:54:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Am I Spinning? (none / 0)

"Why would anyone think JoMo's GOTV operation will be run any more effectively than any other aspect of his miserable campaign?"

No one ever answers this question.

I ain't there, but all I ever read about are teenage kids in T-shirts doing door knob hanginds.

I think back to Howard Dean's troops in Iowa. They were out of state and often young and far more motivated than these for-hire guys are.

And Dean got his ass kicked.

I have not yet read of any sort of activity that strikes me as being actually effective in producing a bundle of votes for Joe.

I am a long way away and out of the loop, so maybe they are there.

But I am still waiting to hear how this paid, ragtag, rude army is going to produce a big swing for Joe.


by Thresholder on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 05:00:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Am I Spinning? (none / 0)

I would love to see Joementum free to spend most of September and October stumping for Democratic senatorial candidates in closely contested races.  Start with Jack Carter in Nevada then hit places like Montana, Missouri and Tennessee.


by stumpy on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 04:49:13 PM EST

Re: Am I Spinning? (none / 0)

I would love to see Joementum free to spend most of September and October stumping for Democratic senatorial candidates in closely contested races.

Only if you want them to lose.


With Democrats Lieberman goes for the jugular. With Republicans he goes for the lips.
by Sitkah on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 04:55:26 PM EST

Re: Am I Spinning? (none / 0)

Until a month ago I didn't think Lamont could win, so obviously I'm not in sync with this race. And primaries have never really been my focus, as opposed to November. However, if I had to guess I would expect the result to be closer than these polls.

Simple reason. Everything tends to drift back toward the beginning. I learned that in sports. I keep the preseason ratings in college football and basketball. You'd be shocked, in bowl games and the NCAA tournament, how often the team rated higher in preseason will defeat a supposedly superior opponent in the postseason. One of my friends makes a killing every year by retaining the early "marquee matchup" pointspreads from the late summer and using them to trump the actual numbers on game day. In other words, if a team was favored by 7 in late August for a game to be played in mid November, if the final number has switched dramatically based on current form, let's say to the other team favored by 3, my friend believes that original -7 was there for a reason, more representative of the true talent level and relative strength of the two teams than the new 3 suggests.

So does it really make sense an incumbent who led 65-19 will lose by double digits? I wouldn't wager on it either way but instinct tells me the guy who had 65% to begin with probably retains more strength than these new margins imply.

Obviously sports is not a perfect comparison. Athletics is ability, which is less likely to change significantly over the short term than opinion. But I've found some of the basics to be useful in transfer analysis.


by jagakid on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 05:46:23 PM EST

Re: Am I Spinning? (none / 0)

primaries have never really been my focus, as opposed to November.

I used to be that way until I realized that the only way to reform the Democratic party at the DC level is through the primary.

Hopefully this challenge to JoMo is just the forst of many more challenges to DCDemocrats who have lost their way.

instinct tells me the guy who had 65% to begin with probably retains more strength than these new margins imply.

Back when JoMo was polling at 65% few even realized there was a serious alternative to him. As soon as they found out there was, people started dumping him.


With Democrats Lieberman goes for the jugular. With Republicans he goes for the lips.
by Sitkah on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 06:45:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'll take a volunteer over a paid canvasser 2 to 1 (none / 0)


Progress is Personal | PCCC
by msnook on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 06:01:57 PM EST

Re: Am I Spinning? (3.00 / 1)

Chris, I respect your pessimism, because we all know what's been happening the last few years to any liberal or progressive candidates, but I'd have to disagree with your gut feelings on this. I've actually been starting to feel really good over the last few months about where our country is headed, and obviously we have no election proof of that yet, but my gut feeling is that this November is going to be very good for us.

Anyway, I'm getting off topic; I'm also wondering if by the laws of probability, if you include all of the pro-Lieberman possibilities, don't you at least have to include a few pro-Lamont possibilities as well?

Great work blogging on all this, BTW.


Blogging politics and life in general at jimmy.bouma-holtrop.com
by forecaster15 on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 06:19:09 PM EST

Re: Am I Spinning? (none / 0)

I think some of you can't distinquish between realistic optimism and pessimism/defeatism. The former is about pointing out the obstacles for the purpose of achieving the goal that one says one wants to achieve, while the former has no goal in mind at all other than to say what cant be done. I know the difference between the two because I have had to hear it for the last couple of years as I have shifted my own career. Now, when I point out the barriers my way on the road to where I am going to go, some people translate that too into pessimism because all they hear are the barriers. They don't hear me also adding- this is the barrier- here's how I am going to get around it. Heres another barrier heres how I am going to get around it. All Chris has done is to point out the barriers and say dont get cocky- stay focused. And some of you, not able to hear this, have lept on it because you can't handle that there maybe barriers. What kind of optimism is it that can't handle potential risks and pitfalls? In a way this is similar to me to the DLC's inablity to change up strategy beyond doing triangulation. It's inability to accept the facts and situation as they are an adapt accordingly so that one can still achieve one's goals. We need to be able to be honest about what are the pitfalls in order to suceed in the long run- not wax between being overly woe-is-me pessimistic or overly optimistic.


by bruh21 on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 07:11:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Am I Spinning? (none / 0)

Maybe I didn't make it clear that I do totally respect realistic optimism (In fact, I'm very optimistic about this primary), but I was just wondering about the possibility that in probability terms, maybe if you included all of the bad, maybe some of the good would have to come alone with it (I would argue the opposite, as well, if somewhere were neglecting to mention any of the bad and only dwelling on the good, I'd ask this same question). I don't know the answer to that question. It's probably a bad idea to try to bring math and logic into analyzing an election, I was just trying to see if that could fit into our analysis, and it's obvious that you don't think it can fit.


Blogging politics and life in general at jimmy.bouma-holtrop.com
by forecaster15 on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 07:32:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Am I Spinning? (none / 0)

peo know the good- unless one has been living under a rock for the last week- all the good has been reported 24/7 on most blogs. all that chris added was the negative,a nd that's what you and others are complaining about. that he didnt continue to good times are a'coming approach.


by bruh21 on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 09:14:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Am I Spinning? (none / 0)

Well, dang. I wasn't trying to say he shouldn't have posted the negative, I think it's great to keep a balanced view, I was only trying to figure out if that one bit of math/logic thinking fit in. And it's becoming more and more clear to me that perhaps it doesn't fit in.


Blogging politics and life in general at jimmy.bouma-holtrop.com
by forecaster15 on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 09:37:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Am I Spinning? (none / 0)

how much lent do you see on your navel? I chiped in some money this week- if you haven't youo should o the same.


by bruh21 on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 11:54:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Am I Spinning? (none / 0)

My gut tells me Lamont by 60-40.


by Bob H on Sun Aug 06, 2006 at 07:28:12 AM EST


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