Warnings About The Generic Ballot

I have been reading some of the interesting discussing taking place of late on the generic ballot at Political Arthmetik and Fruits and Nuts. I can't possibly summarize all of the great information to be found on those two blogs here, but I hav learned some important lessons:
  • 1. Even in a tidal year, the party favored by the landslide can still lose some seats. In 1994, Republicans took 58 seats from Democrats. Somewhat less known is that Democrats actually took four seats from Republicans that same year! So, we could win a bunch of seats, and still see a small number of our incumbents go down. Worth noting.

  • 2. House campaigns, and even 1994-type realignments, are generally far less nationalized than understood. In 1992, Democrats won 46 seats with 55% of the vote or less. In 1994, when the national popular vote for the House shifted seven points in favor of Republicans, Democrats actually only lost 22 of those 46 seats. It was not a straight, national shift roughly equal across all districts--in other words, Republican gains were not equal across the nation. As I have documented in the past, it was basically Republicans completing the long, slow transition from the southern realignment of 1968-1972. If we have big gains, they probably won't come equally either. It will be district to district or, if it is a realignment, it will come from specific demographics that are concentrated in a few areas. It probably will not be not nationwide.

  • 3. Democrats have consistently performed better in the generic ballot than in the final vote. Disturbingly, in all but three of the last thirty congressional elections (going back to 1946), Democrats have actually performed better in the final generic ballot than they performed in the final national vote total. While that is not a good omen, it does not mean that it is a lock that Democrats will perform worse from the final generic ballot to the final vote totals. Also, I still firmly believe that our excellent recruiting this year will help reverse that trend (that, and I'd also wager large sums of money that Democrats are going to turn out at higher rates than Republicans this year).

  • 4. Doing well in the popular vote total helps, but does not guarantee, big gains in the House. This was possibly the most disturbing lesson of all to take from these two posts. It seems pretty clear that doing better in the national popular vote results in taking more seats (duh), but it is not a guarantee that even a very large popular vote win (up to 6%) will result in a large majority in the House of Representatives. The gains are going to have to come where they count the most in order for Democrats to take over. Fortunately, the only information we have on the most competitive races indicates that Democrats are indeed making significant gains where they count the most. As of last month, in the only poll of its kind, Democrats were up 49-45 in the forty most competitive Republican held seats, as compared to down 58-40 in 2004. Numbers like that forecast a very high chance of taking over the House of Representatives, but not with a very large majority.
Basically, these two posts have made me far more skeptical of generic ballot polls than I was in the past. Clearly, given the problems with the generic ballot polls, right now the only truly informative polls on the House of Representatives will come from individual districts, or from surveys that only take the fifty or so most competitive districts as their universe of voters (ala the NPR study from last month). What I wouldn't give to have a daily tracking poll of the generic ballot in those fifty districts starting the day after Labor Day and going all the way through the election. It will be nice to see us ahead in national generic ballot polls, but it won't guarantee anything. Oh, my kingdom for better House race polling. The more I learn about polling, the less I realize available polling can actually tell me.



Display:


You have a kingdom? (none / 0)

I guess I need to be nicer to you.

Very informative, Chris.


by Pachacutec on Thu Aug 24, 2006 at 09:54:29 PM EST

Gallup (none / 0)

Does anyone have any clue why the Gallup poll on the front page of USA Today a couple days ago said that the Dems big congressional lead had evaporated, and that Bush was in the mid-40s? I haven't seen much individual information on races that bear that out, and every other national poll I have seen has also still had the dems with a comfortable lead.  


Go back to Hussein Texas
by gobacktotexas on Thu Aug 24, 2006 at 10:00:16 PM EST

I am asking for some input on this subject (none / 0)

I would like to know what the theories are for the polling discrepancies.  Sorry if I didn't make that clear.  


Go back to Hussein Texas
by gobacktotexas on Fri Aug 25, 2006 at 07:33:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Warnings About The Generic Ballot (none / 0)

Minor point, but all four of those seats that switched R-D in 1994 were open seats.  No Republican incumbents lost that year.  Given the situation to date, I think we have reason to hope no Democratic incumbents will lose this time.  Not that we should take that for granted, but it does look unlikely at this point.


by RamblinDave on Thu Aug 24, 2006 at 10:09:09 PM EST

Re: Warnings About The Generic Ballot (none / 0)

Not a minor point at all. Look at the 92/96 PVIs of those seats:

ME-02: D+6.4
MN-06: R+1.2
PA-18: D+6.4
RI-01: D+13.5

All but one of those seats were very Dem, one of them heavily so. (Interestingly, the first three districts have all gotten LESS Dem since the 90s, though I think PA and possibly MN involved some redistricting.)

This year, we have very few open seats, and look at the PVIs for all of them:

FL-11: D+11
GA-04: D+23
HI-02: D+10
IL-17: D+5
MD-03: D+7
MN-05: D+21
NY-11: D+40
OH-06: D+0
OH-13: D+6
TN-09: D+18
VT-AL: D+9

Only two of those seats have even remotely seriously challenges: OH-06 and VT-AL. And while VT-AL is acting like the Mets (it's makin' me sweat), I don't think most people feel like OH-06 is in serious trouble this time around.

And, of course, you'll notice that not one of our open seats are lean-GOP.


by DavidNYC on Thu Aug 24, 2006 at 10:58:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The flip side of gerrymandering (none / 0)

Republican gerrymandering generally spread out the R's into more seats and concentrated the Dems.  One consequence is that the Dems now have more safe  seats than the R's have--182 D to 178 R in the Cook Report.  The Dems lost some marginal seats, which they have a chance to take back this year.  In addition, several GOP Congressmen decided after the 2004 election to retire or seek higher office this time around, creating many open R seats that aren;t safe seats.  The PVI of these seats is much closer (AZ-01 R+1; CO-07 D+2; IA-01 D+5; IL-06 R+3; MN-06 R+5; NY-24 R+1 and WI-08 R+4) and scandal has created openings in TX-22 R+15 and OH-18 R+6 that would otherwise be out of reach.  


by Mimikatz on Fri Aug 25, 2006 at 12:15:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The flip side of gerrymandering (none / 0)

This is a good point. To summarize, I think: Any time a Dem retires, the district is likely to be safer Dem than in the reverse situation.

Of course, if and when we do retake the majority, we will have more marginal seats.


by DavidNYC on Fri Aug 25, 2006 at 01:13:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The flip side of gerrymandering (none / 0)

You and Chris would probably enjoy the articles on targeting vs expanding the field in House races in The Democratic Strategist.  Contesting many more races this time is going to pay off for the Dems as well.  After all, what good is a generic vote lead if you have left many races unopposed, as happened in 2004?  The more serious races, the more chances to succeed.


by Mimikatz on Fri Aug 25, 2006 at 01:29:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Warnings About The Generic Ballot (none / 0)

Chris,

Thanks so much for all the comprehensive, informative posts.  I learn so much here, and   really appreciate all you're doing.


by Urban Pirate on Thu Aug 24, 2006 at 10:11:46 PM EST

Re: Warnings About The Generic Ballot (none / 0)

I finally did the number crunching on the district lines, and it seems that the Republicans have a 3% advantage due to how the lines are drawn.  In other words, the Democrats will probably need to beat the Republicans by 3% in the nationwide popular vote to take back the House.  But if they can get more than that, they are likely to do that.

This is not just because of gerrymandering, its more a function of the Democrats piling up votes in urban and to a lesser extent majority minority districts, while losing by smaller margins in rural areas.


by Michels on Thu Aug 24, 2006 at 10:38:50 PM EST

Re: Warnings About The Generic Ballot (none / 0)

Weird numbers.
How can Nancy Skinner be closer to winning than Chris Murphy and Darcy Burner[that SUSA was awfull]
What ever is actually working we need to do.

by Democraticavenger on Thu Aug 24, 2006 at 10:51:47 PM EST

The Darcy Burner poll was a shocker (none / 0)

For some reason, I thought Darcy was one of the best Dem pick up opportunities and that she was ahead in the polls or at least even with Reichert(R). 13 points down is very disappointing.


by rosebowl on Fri Aug 25, 2006 at 12:18:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I saw a Hotline/Diageo generic poll today (none / 0)

It gave us a 40-33 lead among all voters but 40-40 among likely voters: http://syndication.nationaljournal.com/o ncall/poll2.html

But it looked like the crosstabs were screwed up, giving Dems a 28-15 lead among indies. There can't be that many undecideds.

Hard for me to spend much time on House races because the polls are so infrequent and iffy, plus I don't know the dynamics of enough of the individual districts. Just give me 52% of the two-party vote.


by jagakid on Thu Aug 24, 2006 at 10:57:17 PM EST

Im worried here (none / 0)

Ive seen two generic polls recently that showed the GOP pulling even.  One was Hotline, the other was Gallup.  We need to make sure that this doesnt become a trend.


by Toddwell on Thu Aug 24, 2006 at 11:21:48 PM EST

Re: Im worried here (none / 0)

On the ground, and locally in Plano, TX (deep red), coversation on neighborhood walks revile that point No. 3 is operative.  I ask these Republicans (haven't met my first Dem yet) if change is what is needed.  Answer is YES everytime.  Asked if Repub or Dem would be the force of that change, Dem is the answer ~80%.  Asked if the local Dem candidate for what-ever position might recieve their vote, 100% No.

Change is coming, but it's a tuff row to hoe.

D.Rich
Dallas, TX


by ddrich on Thu Aug 24, 2006 at 11:54:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Im worried here (none / 0)

City hall is one thing you can't fight. Stupidity is another.


With Democrats Lieberman goes for the jugular. With Republicans he goes for the lips.
by Sitkah on Fri Aug 25, 2006 at 12:06:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Warnings About The Generic Ballot (none / 0)

So, we could win a bunch of seats, and still see a small number of our incumbents go down.

If the right Dem incumbents go down (meaning those who vote with the GOP or are corrupt), then that's a gain for reforming the Democratic Party -- because in the next cycle good Democrats can be put into those offices.

You know what they say about breaking eggs to make an omelet.


With Democrats Lieberman goes for the jugular. With Republicans he goes for the lips.
by Sitkah on Fri Aug 25, 2006 at 12:03:30 AM EST

A bit concerned too (none / 0)

It seems like the wind is shifting in favor of the Republicans for whatever reason, I don't know. The Abramoff scandal/Culture of Corruption theme seems to have died quickly. Rove indictment didn't happen.
Its gonna to be harder for Democrats to nationalize this election.

My prediction - House : Democrats pick up nine seats
                Senate: Democrats pick up four seats
         Governorships: Democrats pick up five seats


by rosebowl on Fri Aug 25, 2006 at 12:06:08 AM EST

Re: A bit concerned too (none / 0)

Yeah, I don't know why this is happening.  Probably something to do with the terror plot.  It almost seems like the wave crested too soon for us like in 1996.  However we should be able to pull this off:

House: +11   222R-213D
Senate: +4  51R-49D
Governorships: +6  28D-22R
State Legislative seats:  +150  3811D-3501R

If we can't manage this, we are in big trouble.  We need to work hard and get everyone we know to vote Democratic.  Let everyone know how important this election is.


by Toddwell on Fri Aug 25, 2006 at 12:21:05 AM EST

Re: A bit concerned too (none / 0)

the one question is tx-22 I don't think the republican can retain it based on what looks like a very screwed up write in campaign but that a large amount of money is now Going into the Liberterian Bob smithers campaign and that his numbers are starting to go up i'm wondering he much of a lock this really is?


by orin76 on Fri Aug 25, 2006 at 01:09:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: check out the latest Keystone Poll (none / 0)

Chris,

Check out the latest Keystone Poll. I don't recall them previously asking a question about if "YOU plan to vote for the Dem or R in YOUR US House district", but they did this time and the numbers are very interesting. 40% said they were going to vote for the Dem and 30% said they were going to vote for the R. Note also the majority of the survey respondents were in the central and west, the more conservative areas of the state.


by phillydem on Fri Aug 25, 2006 at 05:43:37 AM EST

Re: Warnings About The Generic Ballot (none / 0)

Does anyone wonder that there may be a connection between Democrats CONSISTENTLY doing better on the generic than the general and the fact that we're now finding something like 75% of Democratic ads do not mention the affiliation of the candidate?


by alteran on Fri Aug 25, 2006 at 09:03:18 AM EST

Re: Warnings About The Generic Ballot (none / 0)

You're right. If a lot more people say they'll vote for a Democrat, it's just makes sense to identify oneself as a Democrat.


With Democrats Lieberman goes for the jugular. With Republicans he goes for the lips.
by Sitkah on Fri Aug 25, 2006 at 12:29:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Beyond The Generic Ballot--Making Our Own Index (none / 0)

I did a series of three monthly posts looking at generic ballot lead compared to presidential approval, congressional approval and right track/wrong direction.  My point in doing that was to look at how the public was making connections in terms of overall political mood. My conclusion was that the Democratic Party wasn't doing anything effective to focus general discontent onto Congress.

This is a BIG failure, IMHO.  But it's no surprise at all.  The recent good news on the generic ballot front is, IMHO, simply a consequence of realworld forces--more bad news generally, and the elections getting closer.  

What really matters, as Chris notes, is how that generic lead translates into votes in specific districts, and the intermediate factor is the regional distribution.  This is why the news from Kansas, Nebraska and Montana has been particularly important--and why the Nevada Senate race matters a whole lot more than people seem to realize.

There is a real cultural split between the socially conservative South and the libertarian conservative West, with an even more Dem-friendly mix of the two in the prairie.  The most truly effective way to take advantage of this opening is via individual politicians, who bring the abstract possibilities down to earth in their specific actions, and personas.  The governors of Kansas and Wyoming are shining examples of this.  So, too, is John Murtha.

Creating Our Own House Battleground Poll Indices

In light of this analysis, I would suggest that we can somewhat mitigate the poverty of polls we face on the House by creating our own indices, composed by averaging the last poll from each district.  I would propose creating two of these, which would then be subdivided by region.  

One would be composed of all the polls taken in battleground districts.  We could either accept the Cook Report's list of districts, for example, or create our own list for doing this.  The second would be composed of a selected subset of districts where Dem candidates "get it."  This would be, in effect, an indicator of the success of the sort of political approach advocated here at MyDD and elsewhere in the blogosphere.

By aggregating polls from all these different races, we will create indices that we can then compare to other, less frequent polls.  It seems like a very sensible next step for us to take.

Anyone interested in joining in???


by Paul Rosenberg on Fri Aug 25, 2006 at 12:02:18 PM EST

Re: Making Our Own Index (none / 0)

I'm interested.  See my take here, although I would downgrade Darcy Burner in WA-08 at this point on the basis of the last poll.


by Mimikatz on Fri Aug 25, 2006 at 12:09:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'll Make A Start On My Own (none / 0)

And put up a diary about it.  We can go from there.  Do you know of any gaps in TPM's list???


by Paul Rosenberg on Sun Aug 27, 2006 at 01:07:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Beyond The Generic Ballot--Making Our Own Inde (none / 0)

Great idea.  If I had the time I'd be in.

Agree that it really does come down to candidates themselves.  Nothing would work faster than having more "well-cast," message-talented upballot candidates in key states.


by Andmoreagain on Fri Aug 25, 2006 at 04:45:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The death of the Northern Republican (none / 0)

2. House campaigns, and even 1994-type realignments, are generally far less nationalized than understood. In 1992, Democrats won 46 seats with 55% of the vote or less. In 1994, when the national popular vote for the House shifted seven points in favor of Republicans, Democrats actually only lost 22 of those 46 seats. It was not a straight, national shift roughly equal across all districts--in other words, Republican gains were not equal across the nation. As I have documented in the past, it was basically Republicans completing the long, slow transition from the southern realignment of 1968-1972. If we have big gains, they probably won't come equally either. It will be district to district or, if it is a realignment, it will come from specific demographics that are concentrated in a few areas. It probably will not be not nationwide.

Watch Indiana this year, I think that


by ManfromMiddletown on Fri Aug 25, 2006 at 05:12:50 PM EST

Re: The death of the Northern Republican (none / 0)

Sorry about the duplicate.


by ManfromMiddletown on Fri Aug 25, 2006 at 05:29:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The death of the Northern Republican (none / 0)

2. House campaigns, and even 1994-type realignments, are generally far less nationalized than understood. In 1992, Democrats won 46 seats with 55% of the vote or less. In 1994, when the national popular vote for the House shifted seven points in favor of Republicans, Democrats actually only lost 22 of those 46 seats. It was not a straight, national shift roughly equal across all districts--in other words, Republican gains were not equal across the nation. As I have documented in the past, it was basically Republicans completing the long, slow transition from the southern realignment of 1968-1972. If we have big gains, they probably won't come equally either. It will be district to district or, if it is a realignment, it will come from specific demographics that are concentrated in a few areas. It probably will not be not nationwide.

Watch Indiana this year, I think that a 3 seat pickup is going to happen absent a huge suprise, and it's the Great lakes region also.  I expect that people like Chris Shays and Santorum are going to get it, so that the Northeast becomes a monolithic block for the Democratic party the way that the Deep South (Texas through Georgia) has become for the Republicans.

And I think that Republican House majorities in Ohio and Indiana are going to switch to favor Democrats, and that Republicans in the Chicago suburbs are going to get canned.  

To parallel the comment about the Republican realignment of the South, I think that this year could be the year, the Democrats take the North, and make inroads in the  West (NV, NM, WY, CO, and AZ)  I wouldn't be suprised to see Democrats pick up 10-15 seats in the region that sweeps west from Buffalo to Chicago, and south from Detroit to Louisville.  


by ManfromMiddletown on Fri Aug 25, 2006 at 05:28:47 PM EST


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