Monday Afternoon Thread

Here's what I am looking at:
  • Take action on Net Neutrality.

  • The refs at this World Cup, suck, suck, and suck. And the games haven't been much better. This is easily the worst World Cup I have ever seen, with the possible exception of Italia '90. I hope the USA ends up participating in Copa Ameirca in '08, because this tournament has been a huge disappointment. I feel cheated, and not just because America isn't playing anymore.

  • You may have noticed that I have become a consultant in a new company, along with Bondad and thereisnospoon. Just so everyone knows, I will disclose every campaign I end up working on. I have been giving out free advice to campaigns for years, and so I decided that it might be good to actually get paid for my advice on how to reach out to the netroots and how to run interesting and informative polls. Of course, it remains to be seen if I actually end up getting paid. J

  • Speaking of new jobs, Peter Daou has suspended blogging to work with Hillary Clinton. Peter will be sorely missed online.

  • Citing new poll numbers, The Agonist reports that Texas Republicans might be in trouble in the House. Speaking of which, John Courage, has a diary up on MyDD.

  • Taylor Marsh has been doing outstanding work on Duncan Hunter's attacks against John Murtha. She also has a diary up on MyDD on the subject, but make sure you visit her blog to read the rest. As a side note, I think that Taylor may have the longest, continually running progressive website out there. She's been live since 1995!

  • Digg has added a politics section. Could be interesting and important.

  • Tony Snow has fit nicely into the Bush administrations totalitarian mindset, where they believe they can suspend any Constitutional rights they like because we are all supposedly perpetually under imminent danger of being killed by terrorists. Think Progress has the video.

  • Maryscott O'Conner has a great call to action.

  • I have a poll in the extended entry: Amnesty for insurgents?
This is an open thread.


Poll
Amnesty for Iraqi insurgents?
Yes, for all insurgents
Yes, but only for those who have not killed American soldiers
Yes, but only for those who have not killed anyone
No
Other

Votes: 37
Results : Vote Link : Polls

Display:


Re: Monday Afternoon Thread (none / 0)

I see a difference between foreign terrorists and Iraqi insurgents.  While I have trouble saying "give them amnesty," it appears only fair.  I think of the American Revolution, but if the French decided to stay around and occupy.  And destroy our infrastructure, economy, and kill tens of thousands of us as collateral damage.

In other words, I sympathize with those who feel cheated, and have struggled to raise their families.  To end the cycle of hate, I think amnesty for Iraqis is the only way to do that.  It will help everyone to move on, and give less incentive for hostility against hopefully reduced amounts of Americans still in Iraq.  Foreign terrorists, on the other hand, should get justice by serving time in prison.  I'd love to hear other people's thoughts, too.


John McCain
by John Nicosia on Mon Jun 26, 2006 at 03:57:39 PM EST

Re: Monday Afternoon Thread (none / 0)

'Amnesty'

John Nicosia "I see a difference between foreign terrorists and Iraqi insurgents." hints at poll limitations by how the options are structured and the context of the debate. John is right.

The differing impact of an offer on Nationalist v. Jihadist is, to my estimate, a critical part of the intent. The vast majority of confirmed Jihadists will never accept an amnesty because it would necessarily require renouncing violence and confessing, not celebrating, 'sins'. The South Africa model led to reconciliation and integration and provides a valuable example. Its different now because the death seeking don't want to go home to their families.

However, I think the amnesty rule has to be better explained: renounce violence and agitation, testify honestly and fully, be prepared to join the Iraqi people and government in their fight against any remaining insurgents of Jihadists, not just because of a draft, but realisticly because a "traitor" to Jihad is a bigger target than infidels.

It can't be any easy switch out of the insurgency. Large scale numbers would give some protection, but the fighting would not end, even with the most successful amnesty program, but the battlefield will have been dramatically reshaped. So anyone who legitimately switches sides, or at a minimum calls it quits and goes home, should be welcomed at any time if that's what the Iraqi government decides.  

Very wise strategy on the part of the Iraqi government IMNSHO. Maybe a poll around some specific details of the actual plan would generate more insightful results.

Other; because some Jihadists will attempt to exploit the amnesty by feigning reconciliation, like the Gitmo released detainees who returned to the battlefield, they must be scrutinized / supervised more closely that Iraqis - a different type of amnesty. Yet, the door must still be open to all who honestly swear good-faith. The others will be ruthlessly suppressed. The grunts must be allowed to go home (within the constraints of a program) or you force perpetual insurgency.  

Maybe War Crimes trials for the top Iraqi leaders, with suspended sentences if they fully turn on the Jihadists. Again, once they decide to quit they become a top target anyway, so why not integrate your militia into the army, sing, and retire?

btw. Was that Carl Levin calling the Iraq war a Liberation as he renounced the idea of amnesty - can you really end a war without some form of amnesty, short of annihilation? Which side is he on anyway?  ;}

So maybe: Under what circumstances would you favor amnesty?

Iraq nationals of lower rank only, excluding Fedayeen Sadamm,
All Iraqi nationals, excluding leaders,
All Iraqi nationals, including leaders,
All Iraqi nationals and foreigners,
All above, except beheaders and suiciders,
All Iraqis and foreigners, except foreign leaders,
Reconciliation program not required, just go home,
No amnesty, no way, this is a fight to the death,
Against Namaste? What's all this about Violins on TV?

Vote early, vote often!


by Sashland on Tue Jun 27, 2006 at 03:10:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Afternoon Thread (3.00 / 1)

As long as US troops are present in Iraq, amnesty for anyone who harms or threatens to harm those troops is premature.  Besides, sovereignty as it is defined by the West has not been attained, and one only has to note the presence of US troops to note that such sovereignty has not been accepted by the United States.  Allowing Iraq to grant amnesty to insurgents also conflicts with our policy at Guantanomo Bay.  For if we will indefinitely detain those we call "terrorists," who are now the "insurgents" in Iraq, stating that they fight under no flag, then Iraq's recognition of them by granting them amnesty requires us to release these prisoners.  In other words, I am trying to highlight the highly scabrous nature of amnesty as it relates to our foreign policy and our definitions of sovereignty.  Until all three are resolved, our relations to Iraq and to the war in that country will be mired in many contradictions.  This will only be resolved if we decide to withdraw, formally recognize Iraq as a sovereign nation with its own army and its own institutions of government and then release prisoners who are then recognized by a government we view as sovereign.  Until this is systematically sorted and considered in an orderly manner, we will continue to be mired in a conflict that will become increasingly unintelligible.  This is why I vote no in the above survey.


by illinois062006 on Mon Jun 26, 2006 at 04:15:13 PM EST

Re: Monday Afternoon Thread (3.00 / 1)

Yes, the officiating has been horrible at this World Cup.  Very sad.  The Portugal/Holland game was the most ridiculous I've ever seen.  I didn't think I'd be saying that so quickly after the US/Italy game.  And that doesn't even address the three-yellow-card game.


by RickD on Mon Jun 26, 2006 at 04:40:08 PM EST

Re: Monday Afternoon Thread (none / 0)

Regarding that TX House race - who commissioned the poll? The Agonist doesn't say.


by PantherDem on Mon Jun 26, 2006 at 04:47:27 PM EST

Re: Monday Afternoon Thread (none / 0)

It says, a poll conducted by Lake Research.


by Just Another Matt on Mon Jun 26, 2006 at 05:43:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Afternoon Thread (none / 0)

Yes, but who commissioned it? If it was an internal poll by the campaign, I'm less than enthused.


by PantherDem on Mon Jun 26, 2006 at 05:58:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Afternoon Thread (none / 0)

Unfortunately, I think we can see the RW court shaping up based on the decisions that came out today.  Roberts and Alito have been RW Rubber Stamps along with those morons Scalia and the inept Thomas.  Hopefully Kennedy doesn't change and R v W isn't overturned by the end of this year, beginning of next.  DAMN YOU OCONNOR FOR RETIRING.  FIRST YOU SCREWED GORE... NOW THIS!!!


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Mon Jun 26, 2006 at 04:48:50 PM EST

Re: Monday Afternoon Thread (none / 0)

um, not to quibble, but you are cursing a Reagan appointee for retiring.  

Maybe the Democrats wouldn't be in such bad shape on SCOTUS if we'd had the White House for more than 12 years out of the past 38?  

And the reason O'Connor screwed over Gore was precisely to get Alito and/or Roberts on the Court.  This is a fairly grim situation no matter how you slice it.  For me, Roe isn't the biggie, it's the amazing inflation of the Executive Branch, which I'm sure Alito and Roberts will approve.


by RickD on Mon Jun 26, 2006 at 06:04:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Afternoon Thread (none / 0)

True... had it been one of ours, I would be cursing harder... However 1) Oconnor was a lot more moderate than Roberts or Alito and 2) Better the devil I know than the devil I don't.  

Roe bugs me more for the fact it has been established precident for so long and the implications of Roe being over turned are that the SCOTUS ends up claiming the implicit right to privacy that exists in the bill of rights doesn't exist... Thomas's ignorant opinion.  THAT part of Roe terrifies me as it makes the Exec Branch inflation even more likely and next thing we know the RW will have their version of the Gestapo taking us away to re-education centers.

Either way you are right... The Scotus sucks. I am hoping our guys hold on until Bush is gone and we hold the WH in 2008.  One loss of anyone but Kennedy will be horrendous news...  losing Kennedy would be bad as well, since he still trends a bit moderate... more so than the Wingnut 4 anyway.  I pray for Stephens good health for another 2 years... He won'tsurvive another Republican however.  


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Mon Jun 26, 2006 at 11:03:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

World Cup (none / 0)

I disagree. Not all the refs suck. there have been some excellent games.  While yesterday, the ref lost control of the Netherlands / Portugal game, the England game was actually quite good and Ecuador surprised me (and everyone)... and the officiating wasn't that bad.  I thought their goalie was quite inspiring, and I watched all of their first-round games, and didn't find anything wrong with them.  Japan versus Brazil? AWESOME game... even "fatty" got some goals, and the ref wasn't calling the "dives" and just let the boys play. The Ivory Coast games? First two were very good, and it was a joy to watch those guys... great story.  So if you focus on the lackluster (a.k.a. SHITTY) performance of the united states and a couple of poorly officiated matches... then yes, the world cup sucks... but there are a hell of a lot of good games out there.  I recommend watching the cup on Univision.  I can speak Spanish but can't follow most of the commentary.  I can't STAND the commentary on ABC and on ESPN.  Thos guys repeat themselves over and over and over, don't focus on the game, and aren't as excited when real shit's happening on the field as the Spanish-speaking announcers.  So... go to Univision, tune out the announcers, find a couple of more teams to root for (I like England, even though they're squeaking by... and I like "fatty" with Brazil... mainly because people are making fun of him).

As for Texas REpublicans... I can't wait to get to Texas and vote for John Courage.  I'm moving into his district in 2 months.

NCDem


Invest in nature
by NCDem on Mon Jun 26, 2006 at 04:51:19 PM EST

P.S. (none / 0)

The coach should be fired. I haven't seen a more piss-anty piece of whiney "I take no responsibility, whatsoever"... unprofessionalism in coaching...


Invest in nature
by NCDem on Mon Jun 26, 2006 at 04:53:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: P.S. (none / 0)

Bruce Arena?  He shouldn't be fired, though he probably won't return.  He took the US from an also-ran that went 0-3 in 1998 while only scoring one goal to the Quarterfinals in 2002.  His record is good.  Having said that, this was a disappointing run, as the team did not look better from 2002, and many of the young players had not developed at all.  (Beasley?  Donovan?)  I think there should be a new coach to bring fresh blood to the system, but Arena's contributions should be appreciated.  (And get rid of Donovan unless he improves significantly.)

As for the WATB comments about the refs, I think once Arena calmed down a bit, he admitted that the team was not quite what it should have been.  Unfortunately the ref-blaming comments make the headlines and his later, saner comments do not.  While a number of the calls in the Ghana game were poor, the real reason Ghana won that game was simple: they played better.  The US is weak at taking domination of the midfield to converting scoring chances.  


by RickD on Mon Jun 26, 2006 at 06:10:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: World Cup (none / 0)

This WC has been great with many very entertaining games and excellent teams.

The US had a sub-standard team and coach and it showed in their games. Hopefully in future years we'll get better teams.

Germany looks very strong and has played attacking games and seem very organized. Argentina also was looking very good although they seemed shaky in the last game. This quarter-final matchup should be fun with the edge to home team Germany.

England although they have not yet clicked as a team have very good players and are deadly on set plays. The game with Portugal should be another great game, although Portugal will not have Deco and are probably a bit winded and beat up from their tough match with Holland.

Tomorrow's Brazil/Ghana and Spain/France will also provide some exciting matches and if the favorites win then the Brazil vs Spain quarter final should really be a treat.


by ab initio on Mon Jun 26, 2006 at 10:57:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Blogger political consultants (none / 0)

No doubt bloggers too need to earn a living and if they can generate revenues as political consultants, then why not. K Street and the Repub consultant machine has run the current administration. The DC Dem consultant base have earned handsome rewards while providing no successes yet the DC Dem establishment keeps paying these guys.

Despite the Jerome and Kos brouhaha swirling on the "pay-to-play" meme, I wonder how the liberal blogosphere will develop as the promoters of the leading sites become political consultants. Will they go the way of other political consultants beholden to their paymasters or maintain their integrity? This is a tough choice when dollar signs are everywhere.

Another question that I have is are the main liberal political sites dependent on their promoters as anchors or will the community drift to other sites if a sites promoter can't draw the fine line between real opinion and sponsored opinion?


by ab initio on Mon Jun 26, 2006 at 11:09:35 PM EST


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