My First Ward Committee Endorsement Meeting

Read this post--Chris

I just returned from my first ward committee endorsement meeting to make Democratic Party endorsements for the 27th ward in Philadelphia. These are the endorsements that would appear on "official Democratic ballots" that will be handed out on May 16th when people enter the 23 divisions (precincts) in our ward. I found the meeting both draining and uplifting.. Don't participate in local politics if you don't want to work, and if you don't want to have your faith in democracy renewed.

Turnout for the meeting was actually a little low. I believe we now have thirty-two committee people, but only twenty-one people were at the meeting (since we have three universities in our ward, it is important to keep in mind that finals are upon us, and that the turnover rate on committee people is astronomical). Before the endorsements began, we agreed to put the Senate endorsement last, because of the emotions that debate stirs up. Everyone agreed that it was better to finish all other business and then enter that minefield. Everyone agreed. Were that it was possible that we could have some agreement like that online.

The evening was going along without any real surprises until one of the older members of our committee nominated "no endorsement" for a local election where the Democratic incumbent was running unopposed. An interesting debate quickly ensued. I can't imagine the specifics of the debate would be of interest to the national readership of this blog, but the final vote was indeed interesting. The incumbent was endorsed by a vote of 11-10. Perhaps most interestingly, a couple of new committee persons had been appointed at the start of the meeting to fill vacant committee positions, and they all voted to endorse the incumbent. I voted against, and had the new members not come, that position would have won out.

I am not going to complain about that, however. I am glad those new people came to our committee meeting, and I hope they will continue to be active members of the committee. They were not plants--they were just new people recruited to help out with the upcoming elections by filling vacancies. One of the worst dangers we face as a movement are people more interested in making sure that they maintain their own power, and that their position remains that majority position rather than trying to bring new activists willing to help out the party into the fold. Let that be a lesson to everyone out there wavering on whether to run for committee person or not: you can immediately have a real impact on your local scene if you do decide to participate. Let that also be a lesson to every parliamentarian and local tyrant: let the new people in, even if it will change the majority position of the committee or organization that makes your position possible.

Eventually, we started reaching the big nominations. For Lt. Governor, Valerie McDonald Roberts won our endorsement by a vote of 19-2. This was the highlight of the evening--a local ward committee voting to endorse a progressive against a conservative incumbent. As I wrote earlier today, I still believe that this is the most important statewide campaign on the ballot on May 16th. She is certainly the underdog, but she definitely has a chance. I sincerely hope that this endorsement helps her out.

Rendell was endorsed 16-5. He is running unopposed in the primary, and everyone who voted for "no endorsement" pledged to work for him in the general.

Then it was time for the main event. People started talking, and in just a few minutes it spiraled into five or six separate discussions carrying across the room. Before long, we decided that the only way this was going to be done with any civility was for all twenty-one people present to have a minute or two to speak their mind on the subject, and then vote. My speech went something like this:
I am not going to say anything negative about Bob Casey. I will not be voting for him the primary, but my vote is neither a "protest vote" nor an "anti-Casey vote." My vote is a pro-Chuck Pennacchio vote. Up and down the spectrum of issues, Chuck believes in what I believe. He believes in full equal rights for gay and lesbian Americans, and what Valerie said when she spoke to us, that "we must go way beyond just tolerance." Chuck believes in actually withdrawing from Iraq, not vague promises about withdrawal. Chuck believes that people should have control over their own bodies and their private lives all of the time, not just some of the time. Chuck also believes that campaigns need to be run on the ground, by reaching out to people, not just by money. And on and on and on. I do not worry about what "message" my vote in the primary sends to people, because my vote is what I believe in. I believe that primaries are where you should always and only vote for what you believe in. If I thought my beliefs sent the wrong message to people, I would quit politics right now. Many Americans think that Democrats do not stand for anything. If, in our own primaries, when only Democrats are choosing among potential candidates, we vote not for what we believe in, but rather for what we think will appeal to the most people, then how can we ever combat the belief that Democrats do not stand for anything? I will work for whoever wins the primary, but in the primary I am going to vote for what I believe in. I believe in Chuck Pennacchio.
OK, I wasn't quite that articulate, but that is almost exactly what I said. There were probably a lot more "ums" and "likes," since I made up the speech on the spot. I was happy with it. I think it was the best speech / interview I have given in a couple of months.

At the same time, I was growing nervous. A lot of people who I thought were going to support someone other than Casey were making speeches that seemed to indicate support for Casey. I was not keeping an exact count, but as the speeches drew to a close, I knew the endorsement vote would be close. Also, I knew that Chuck was not going to get the endorsement, because there were a lot more Alan Sandals supporters (Sandals used to live in the ward). In one of the most progressive wards in the state, it looked like it would be either "no endorsement" or "Casey."

When it came time to vote, we decided to endorse a candidate 12-9. At that point, it was obvious that Casey would win, and so a few people switched their votes in the specific endorsement. Casey pulled 15 votes in that poll. And so, at long last, it was finally over. No more arguments in meetings about this issue. Even in Ward 27, which voted 90% for Kerry in 2004, which recently recalled its ward leader, and which boasts the current Meetup host for Philly DFA and a major national blogger, Casey won. And everyone who did not vote for Casey said they would work for him in the general anyway, and pass-out ballots with his name on them in the primary.

How this happened, and how Valerie McDonald Roberts won in a landslide, should be a lesson for progressive netroots activists everywhere. Valerie was able to unite what seemed to me three distinct voting "blocks" at our meeting (if any meeting of only twenty-one people can have three voting blocks), while the Sandals and Pennacchio people only had one of those blocks. Throughout the evening, I noticed fairly distinct voting patterns among the people affiliated with Penn (about five people), the "older African-Americans" (nine people), and the "older white people" (the other seven people, including me). Certainly there were quite a few people at the meeting who fit into two of these categories, as many the older people, both black and white, were either teachers or graduate students at one of the local schools. Of course, there were also exceptions to these voting blocks, but I digress.

Of the nine votes for "no endorsement" in the Senate primary, six came form the "older white progressives." Throughout the evening, it was members of that group who were voting in contrast to the other members of the committee. The Penn students always seemed to emphasize pragmatism: vote for the candidate who can win, don't make the establishment mad. The older African-Americans tended to support existing party leaders, and more for reasons that they believed in those leaders rather than pragmatism (though pragmatism was also an element). The older white progressives, including myself, tended to be the contrarians, and the anti-incumbent, anti-favorite votes always found their most support from this group. However, Valerie had all three groups behind her, and in nearly unanimous fashion. She could speak to pragmatism, to African-Americans, and to white progressives. She is the real deal for progressive change and reform.

It would be nice if we could find a way to clone Valerie McDonald Roberts and watch the revolution unfold with her clone army as our leaders. That, however, is not going to happen. The emerging white progressive consensus is clearly different for the emerging African-American consensus. There also remain quite a few emerging young activists, black and white, who dissent from the emerging netroots consensus, and who are still in favor of a triangulation strategy. These groups are still not doing a very good job of talking to one another. Also, there will be no netroots revolution unless we realize that there remains a gulf between the still generally white netroots and the much more diverse Democratic Party. White voters only make up around 65% of Democratic voters, but the progressive netroots is probably around 85% white. There is a gap, and we need to learn how to address it.

Let me say a few final words about my experience at this meeting, and generally in the Philadelphia progressive activist community. First, this was democracy, pure and simple, local and unblemished. Decisions were made by those who showed up. They were made by my friends and neighbors. This is what democracy looks like, and I will respect the decisions of my local committee in all of my local activism. You really have to find out a way to participate in something like this yourself. It was empowering, and just wonderful.

Second, I was talking with a very articulate activist my age outside of the meeting, with whom I believe I voted almost exactly the same way all night. After both Casey's victory and our failure to "not endorse" the local, unopposed incumbent who will go unnamed (I do not wish to undermine the decision of the committee by naming this person), she asked me "if we can't get progressive candidates endorsed here, then where?" It is certainly a concern I share, since as I said Philadelphia Ward 27 is quite possibly the most progressive ward in the state. The answer, I think, is that we clearly need to do a much better job of listening to, and working with, demographic groups unlike those that read blogs. I would also add that progressive groups not aligned with the Democratic Party , such as West Philly Neighborhood Networks which comfortably endorsed Chuck Pennacchio by more than a 2-1 margin, need to take a long look in the mirror and ask themselves what segment of the progressive base they are really representing. They also need to ask themselves how much influence they are really having over the Democratic Party by remaining separate from it. The most reform heavy, yet still diverse, Democratic ward committee in the state just endorsed both Valerie McDonald Roberts and Bob Casey Jr. When we talk about progressives online, are we really talking about all progressives? And if you can't stomach working for the party because it isn't progressive enough, aren't you really talking about just letting the party become even less progressive than before because you are leaving it?

Discuss.

Display:


Re: My First Ward Committee Endorsement Meeting (none / 0)

That's great stuff Chris. Quite an amazing journey you're on with your involvement. The fantastic thing is that this is happening all over the country-- not near the numbers that we'd like it to be, but it's starting.


by Jerome Armstrong on Fri Apr 28, 2006 at 12:35:30 AM EST

Fuck Bob Casey (1.00 / 1)

A theocon is still a theocon even with a 'D' after his name. If Dobson ran as a Democrat in Colorado against Wayne Allard in 2008, I'm sure Schumer would be happy that a Democrat might win, but at what cost. Fuck Casey, Democrats (other than Schumer) are better than that.


by Bob Brigham on Fri Apr 28, 2006 at 12:43:29 AM EST

Re: Fuck Bob Casey (3.00 / 3)

It is easy to use language like that in an anonymous blog where comments have generally no actual reprecussions. I seriously doubt you would have the guts to talk like that in front of an acutal group of people, much less real activists. And even if you did, all if would create was a lot of arguments that went no where.
by Chris Bowers on Fri Apr 28, 2006 at 12:55:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fuck Bob Casey (none / 0)

Reprecussions? What about some blogger and MSNBC:
"Schumer has now ***** up beyond all recognition the primaries in both Pennsylvania and Ohio," Brigham said in an e-mail distributed Tuesday morning. He called Schumer "a complete ******* fool."
Yeah, reprecussions happen, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't say what you think.
by Bob Brigham on Fri Apr 28, 2006 at 01:05:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fuck Bob Casey (none / 0)

but that doesn't mean you shouldn't say what you think.

But do we really need to shut many people's objectivity down from the first uttetrance of the "F" word?  How about "Intolerant" Bob Casey.  Now that works to wake up curiosity and maybe even objectivity!


by NG on Fri Apr 28, 2006 at 09:43:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Enthusiastically endorse your experience. (none / 0)

I took part at the District (local) & county (City) level here in Denver, in much the same way you did. You are exactly right about local democracy at work.

My sense of Denver is that it is more Progressive than I get from your report of Philadelphia. At least when we look at the Democratic activists and participants who attend these meetings. Strong support for immigration rights at the county level. Strong endorsement of progressive Democratic assertions.

I would emphasize how "normal" the participants were. These are my neighbors, and people from the next block over. Young, old, black, white, new to the neighborhood, or well-known characters from years past. If not blogosphere, then someone you could have a coffee with and talk politics. I mean, they have to at least care enough to lose an evening or a nice Saturday morning.

Eh, we didn't have many choices or controversies because most dems don't have challengers from within the Party, at least in any of the political offices needing my opinion.

The immigration issue was the only one to draw a lot of heat at the Denver County. The controversy was between the party establishment (wishing to run an efficient meeting, perhaps) who wanted the voice vote and a group from District 2 who wanted a body count, despite the fact that the voice vote gave a ringing endorsement of Immigration rights. After 10 minutes of controverys, the "establishment" gave in, we counted... minimal, scattered people stood for restrictions on Immigrants.

I think they made the point quite well about how lonely the anti-immigrant position is with in the Party activists and faithful.


There's more of us than there is of them.
by MetaData on Fri Apr 28, 2006 at 01:16:33 AM EST

Re: Enthusiastically endorse your experience. (none / 0)

I think everything you say is awesome, with one exception:
My sense of Denver is that it is more Progressive than I get from your report of Philadelphia.
Denver might be, but you really are not going to find a more progressive ward than mine. Green party registration actually outnumbers Republican party registration on my street.Bush has around a 2% approval rating in Philly right now (I am not exaggerating). When Valier said "we need to go way beyond tolerance" with GLBT Americans, she received a standing ovation from our entirely straight ward committee.

Anu-war graffittii still occupies many of our sidewalks. The large "W" sign crossed out still hangsin the median at 46th and Baltimore. This is as progressive as any neighborhood in Ameirca gets. Our congressional district was the third most anti-Bush in the country in 2004 (and the most anti-Bush outisde of the Bronx). Chaka Fattah is our rep. This is progressive central.
by Chris Bowers on Fri Apr 28, 2006 at 01:23:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Enthusiastically endorse your experience. (none / 0)

I think part of the problem with the disconnect in the "progressive" netroots community versus the other segments of the Democratic party is that there are still very different views of what it means to be "progressive".

How many arguements have there been on this blog for instance, over the importance of a labor movement to a progressive movement? Some people think unions are corrupt dinosaurs from a bricks and mortar era that have no business in our "New Economy". Others aren't so harsh in their beliefs, but simply have no experience with the labor movement (due to the conservative nature of our country which tends to stifle worker activism) and so are ambivalent as to its importance.

But I would venture that most people on blogs think that a very important part of being a progressive is to support gay rights, abortion, and the environment. Whereas with many people in the Democratic Party, especially in places like Philly, NYC, and Chicago with a heavy union presence, these issues might not be at the top of the agenda (though that by no means they are not important). So support for Casey may hinge more the fact that he is a strong labor (and environmental) supporter. In fact, his support for labor may trump everything else for some people  because of his show of solidarity.

Until we bridge these two gaps in the activist base, the labor/economic/solidarity faction and the privacy rights/environmental factions, I think you will continue to see this disconnect between the netroots and everyone else.    


by adamterando on Fri Apr 28, 2006 at 08:41:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My First Ward Committee Endorsement Meeting (none / 0)

This is where the change happens.

It's very interesting to read your observations.

It's a similarly mixed bag here in TX.  There are some candidates that I think can really unite people, but too many Dems are still triangulating.

And the 4 way governor's race is just driving me to distraction.


Before you win, you have to fight. Come fight along with us at TexasKaos.
by boadicea on Fri Apr 28, 2006 at 01:17:44 AM EST

On deleted comments (none / 0)

Just so people know, I do not tolerate people posting exactly the same comments in multiple threads. That is spam, not dialogue.
by Chris Bowers on Fri Apr 28, 2006 at 01:44:32 AM EST

Re: On deleted comments (none / 0)

k. Speaking of dialogue, where do you see the balance between the old guard and the Philly grassroots in 2008?
by Bob Brigham on Fri Apr 28, 2006 at 01:47:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On deleted comments (none / 0)

I can give you a better answer on May 17th, and a much better answer in mid-June. The "battle" is ongoing. Just how effective our seige engines are remains to be seen. Just how large of a colaition we can build remains to be seen. just how willing we are to keep up the fight after losses remains to be seen. Our influence is growing, but we shall have to see. The 2007 mayoral election could be interesting.
by Chris Bowers on Fri Apr 28, 2006 at 01:59:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Not surprising (none / 0)

"The Penn students always seemed to emphasize pragmatism: vote for the candidate who can win, don't make the establishment mad."

This is one of the reasons I'm a little disappointed at times. We're very devoid of any sort of belief, whether it be ideological or directional. I have no idea how the people at the top of Penn Dems feel, and they sometimes seem content to just float with the status quo.


by PsiFighter37 on Fri Apr 28, 2006 at 02:19:45 AM EST

Re: Not surprising (none / 0)

Man, where were you? Could have made a difference tonight. I know you are not a committee person, but you still could have had an impact. Is your division really occupied already?
by Chris Bowers on Fri Apr 28, 2006 at 02:37:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Studying for finals (none / 0)

When it comes to exams, academics comes way ahead of everything else.

As for my division...as far as I know, Nate (the president) is already representing it. Furthermore, I haven't officially changed my residence on voting registration since last year, so I'm not sure if I'm currently eligible.

I'm sorry I couldn't come...next year, I'm going to try and plan around my other activities so I can attend more regularly.


by PsiFighter37 on Fri Apr 28, 2006 at 02:47:47 AM EST

Chuck got hammered here (none / 0)

The casey/ pennachio thing was highlighted by bowers speech + it gives you a good idea why organizing your issues and priorities so that whatever happens with your constituency, you need your supporters to get the story right.

Pennachio wasn't running on a gay rights platform. But that was the first thing Bowers said. Like narcissus, staring into the waters until nothing is left but a flower... pennachio is fading away...


by turnerbroadcasting on Fri Apr 28, 2006 at 07:56:03 AM EST

Long term straegy true to principles (none / 0)

And if you can't stomach working for the party because it isn't progressive enough, aren't you really talking about just letting the party become even less progressive than before because you are leaving it?

Fair enough question, but only based on a short term strategy to win one Senate race, but lose the war!  I believe what Young Bob Casey represents is antithetical to the main freedoms and respect that the Democrattic party represents from the past and should represent!  I also believe that Casey is likely to allow women's reproductive, privacy and religious freedoms to be sent south making women second class citizens.  This will awaken a/the huge passive-aggressive response from the majority of women that are just not paying close attention to what is now going on.  If the Repubs are totally responsible when that passive-aggressive response takes place, then the Dems may well win a huge victory on this issue alone, but only if they are clearly not involved in the insult!  

Electing Young Bob Casey will make the Dems so involved. I will not be part of that process because for now I think Santorum's name has to be on this insult, not a Dem named Casey. I feel extremely confident in what I say here, and feel the dems will just be screwing up again by not being true long term to critically inportant principles.  BTW, I wonder if Dems have even written down a list of principles listed by importance.  Either way, I can not be true to my principles and vote for any politician that cannot see that choice allows everyone to live in harmony on these issues by not inflicting their religious beliefs by law on everyone.   Make not doubt that is exactly what is going on in the strict pro-life position that Casey espouses!  Anyone that cannot see this is dangerous as a lawmaker!

Is that a clear enough logic for most folks here?


by NG on Fri Apr 28, 2006 at 09:33:07 AM EST

Re: Long term straegy true to principles (none / 0)

How many of the people who are so desperately opposed to Bob Casey are actually involved in the nominating apparatus? How many that are pro-Casey for that matter? So many people object to how the party behaves but so few are willing to do more than lob criticisms from their laptops.  This is a obviously a much bigger issue than just Casey/Pennachio/Sandals...it gets at the Achilles heel of the Democratic base and the blogging community.


by Lucas O'Connor on Fri Apr 28, 2006 at 10:34:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Long term straegy true to principles (none / 0)

When the colonies separated from England, there were many who were against it, and even more in England who were AGAINST IT.  Sometimes on some issues you just cannot compromise the core belief.

I believe what is the main challenge for the democratic party is that they have not seemed to identifiy those core beliefs that many cannot ever compromise on.  Obviously for me, religious tlerance freedoms, privacy rights, and reproductive freedoms are such issues!


by NG on Fri Apr 28, 2006 at 11:08:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Long term straegy true to principles (none / 0)

I'm not suggesting that anyone compromise core beliefs. I'm suggesting that until people are willing to do something more than just talk about it- until they're willing to ACT to change the party- then I'm not particularly sympathetic to their complaints.  This is a general lamentation on the state of the blogging world, not limited to this specific discussion.


by Lucas O'Connor on Fri Apr 28, 2006 at 11:36:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Long term straegy true to principles (none / 0)

Ultimately, you are alone in that voting booth.  That vote, and your preliminary announced threat on how you will use it, is all you really have to make that change.

What else did you have in mind that really means something?


by NG on Fri Apr 28, 2006 at 11:39:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Long term straegy true to principles (none / 0)

"Ultimately, you are alone in that voting booth. That vote, and your preliminary announced threat on how you will use it, is all you really have to make that change."

That is just not true. There are many, many ways to be invovled in politics and to affect change besides voting. AS the doog Doctor always said, "voting just gives you a D minus." If that really is the limit of your imagination on how to affect political change, well, then I really don't know what else to say to you.
by Chris Bowers on Fri Apr 28, 2006 at 12:08:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Long term straegy true to principles (none / 0)

Note the word "Ultimately", which really says it all.


by NG on Fri Apr 28, 2006 at 04:10:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Long term straegy true to principles (none / 0)

You may not be suggesting that, but many in the Democratic Party are.

How many times have you seen a progressive put out core beliefs, cite 15-20 stands on issues that reflect those beliefs, say that he or she hope a Democratic candidate makes good solid noises on maybe 3-5 of them? I see this all the time.

And when said Democratic candidate fails to deliver on any of the 15-20 stands? Then we are asked to "compromise (our) core beliefs". You're damn straight we are asked to do so.

And if we don't? Then it's our fault that Bush or (insert GOoPer name here) got elected.

Compromise of core beliefs has been a stock Democratic value, indeed perhaps the only consistent one the Democratic leadership can agree upon, for the past two decades.


by redstar66 on Fri Apr 28, 2006 at 11:45:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Long term straegy true to principles (none / 0)

I will say that you aren't going to be able to get everything at once all the time, so something you will have to take what you can get.  It doesn't mean that you don't care about all the issues, it means that you don't feel the need to sacrifice progress on some because you can't get progress on all.  


by Lucas O'Connor on Fri Apr 28, 2006 at 12:15:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Long term straegy true to principles (none / 0)

Note I didn't say all that I want all of the time.

I said "candidate makes solid noises about 3-5 issues (out of 20)".

Is it too much to ask a Democrat to at least bat .150 before I put 'em in to pinch hit?


by redstar66 on Fri Apr 28, 2006 at 12:19:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Long term straegy true to principles (none / 0)

I wasn't talking specifically about you or about Casey.  Just in general.


by Lucas O'Connor on Fri Apr 28, 2006 at 12:27:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Long term straegy true to principles (none / 0)

But most progressives I know who have begun to not vote Dem any longer are not looking for some rigid set of agendas to be addressed. They are simply looking for someone whose values are somewhat in line with ours.

The sad fact of the matter is this simply isn't the case with the majority of Democratic candidates to national office.

Yet Democrats vilify us because we are supposedly rigid. We're not. We simply are looking for someone who will bat .150 or .200.

If they bat .750 like a Wellstone, hey, that's excellent. But if they're batting less than .150 (like a Casey in PA or a Klobuchar in MN), how am I being rigid in saying "thanks but no thanks"?

Incidentally, I hear people all the time talk up Casey as pro-labor, and he does have a record to suggest that he is in general pretty consistently so. But it's hard to square his comments on Alito with this.

Pat Buchanan is also consistently pro-labor and pro-Alito. Would Pat Buchanan make a better Senator than ugly Rick? You bet, he's good on labor issues and he was out front against the war in Irak, unlike say Melissa Bean and many other Democrats.

Does that mean if we had a head-to-head Santorum v Buchanan you'd not have qualms voting Buchanan?

I bet you would.

Same thing for me when I'm asked to vote for a Dem who is far far away from my values.


by redstar66 on Fri Apr 28, 2006 at 12:38:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Long term straegy true to principles (none / 0)

Did it ever occur to you that maybe you all are a minority in this country? Did it also occur to you that, even among registered Democrats, that you might a minority? I am asking this honestly because I think there is a disconnect.

Unfortunately you have to deal with reality. The reason that most candidates don't support your views 100% of the times is that most people don't. We live in a conservative country. It has been so at least since the late 1960s. I wish it were different, but those are the dynamics.

Frankly what I've suggested--and I've said it over and over again--is to follow the same blueprint that brought the Christian right to power. They ran for very local offices first. When they were in the minority and no national GOP candidates paid attention to them, instead of whining, they ran for school board, county clerk, sherrif, and other "dog catcher" style positions that no one else wanted. In time they were able to raise their profile to where they could compete for more important offices.

Why should candidates pay attention to you when you represent such a smaller sliver of the electroate? I don't mean to sound rude or intolerant, but conservatives and moderates outnumber "progressives" decidedly in most polls.


by jiacinto on Fri Apr 28, 2006 at 12:49:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Long term straegy true to principles (none / 0)

Again, I said I was looking for a candidate who supported my views 15-25% of the time, not 100% of the time like you say. Nice attempt at limning a straw man.

And I don't deny that I'm in the minority. But I also happen to be in a minority which gets vilified by Dems for not voting Dem in lockstep.

You must be aware of the fact that the Religious Right is neither in the majority in the country nor in the GOP. Of course, this does not stop it from rightfully flexing it's muscle.

Why can't progressives?

We may be in the minority, perhaps as few as 10% of the electorate. But I'd wager Dems won't go far without us.


by redstar66 on Fri Apr 28, 2006 at 12:57:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Long term straegy true to principles (none / 0)

You write:

"We may be in the minority, perhaps as few as 10% of the electorate. But I'd wager Dems won't go far without us."

Then let me ask you this. Why isn't Pennachio catching on? Why has Casey led all the polls even against Santorum? Why have other "progressive" candidates in races not caught on? These are honest questions.

You also write:

"And I don't deny that I'm in the minority. But I also happen to be in a minority which gets vilified by Dems for not voting Dem in lockstep. "

People like you get "vilified" becuase it seems to me that you all can't--or don't want to--understand the dynamics at hand. You all act as if it's "either your way or the highway". You all threaten to take your ball and go home if you don't get the candidates you want.


by jiacinto on Fri Apr 28, 2006 at 01:20:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Long term straegy true to principles (none / 0)

You write:

"We may be in the minority, perhaps as few as 10% of the electorate. But I'd wager Dems won't go far without us."

Then let me ask you this. Why isn't Pennachio catching on? Why has Casey led all the polls even against Santorum? Why have other "progressive" candidates in races not caught on? These are honest questions.

You also write:

"And I don't deny that I'm in the minority. But I also happen to be in a minority which gets vilified by Dems for not voting Dem in lockstep. "

People like you get "vilified" becuase it seems to me that you all can't--or don't want to--understand the dynamics at hand. You all act as if it's "either your way or the highway". You all threaten to take your ball and go home if you don't get the candidates you want.


by jiacinto on Fri Apr 28, 2006 at 01:20:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Long term straegy true to principles (none / 0)

Again, I said I'm looking for 15-25% of my issues to be addressed. Not my way or the highway, just a few tokens of indication that we are at least somewhat on the same side.

Why isn't Pennachio catching on? You answered this question already, but since you seem a bit slow on the uptake, this is because:

1) Progressives are a minority (albeit pretty big and growing) in the Dem Party's backyard constituencies;

2) More importantly, progressives are casually disrespected by the Dem party and have been for the past two decades and therefore

3) The Dem party establishment, far more than the GOP ever did, aggressively throws its weight behind establishment candidates when being threatened by progressive or insurgent (or both) candidates.


by redstar66 on Fri Apr 28, 2006 at 01:25:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Long term straegy true to principles (none / 0)

Let me ask you this then, in all sincerity: Would you be happier with Pennachio as the candidate if (I'm not necessarily saying this is the case, but if) it meant that he wouldn't cross over to enough middle of the road voters to win the election?  This is assuming that the other alternative is Casey running and winning.


by Lucas O'Connor on Fri Apr 28, 2006 at 01:36:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Long term straegy true to principles (3.00 / 1)

First, I see your point, but see it as a false choice.

I'll take my own state as an example.

We have a good candidate, Ford Bell, a lot like Pennachio, I like him mostly, he's good on the war, social issues and the economy (which for me also means trade, living wages and labor rights).

Like PA, we here in MN saw Schumer and co. annoint as DFL Sen candidate yet another "centrist" Dems, Amy Klobuchar, who's had problems with the AFSCME local in her office, who is playing Hillary and Chuck's excellent "we can do it better than Dubya" line on Irak and who is choosing to highlight fiscal conservatism as her main campaign theme. I'm waiting for her to talk about nuking Iran and we'd have the whole package. In all honesty, I'd actually take Casey over Klobuchar 'cuz Alito notwithstanding Casey is good on labor issues, that's up there for me, and about the only thing I can find honest agreement with Amy is choice, which is a little further down for me in the pecking order than labor. Important, but not as.

Now, either Bell or Klobuchar could take on the GOoPer in the general and win. That's why I get your point but see it as a false dichotomy. The polls bear this out. But the Democratic party would rather run the center-right candidate than the progressive candidate, or the center-left candidate that they pushed out of the race three months ago. Why? Maybe they think MN is too purple. Maybe they forgot about Paul Wellstone, who they never really liked anyway.

But even were I to give you that there are cases where the lefty doesn't have enough cross-over appeal, end of day, yes, I think it is better to keep the message on brand for the long term than to say what you think people want to hear, eschew vision and conviction, and win in the short term. I caucus accordingly, I volunteer accordingly, and lastly I vote accordingly.

But you have to admit there are excellent candidates out there with high cross-over appeal, who are pretty progressive and who are viewed with suspicion by the Dems who run the show outta DC. Hackett, for instance. So this dichotomy you raise is false in two ways: 1st - it assumes progressives can't win in purple states (which I hope everyone recognizes Wellstone disproved), and 2nd it assumes a Democratic party which actually cares about crossing-over and talking about Democratic values to non-Democratic constituencies, like Al Gore can do today, and like Paul Hackett was quite good at.


by redstar66 on Fri Apr 28, 2006 at 02:22:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Long term straegy true to principles (none / 0)

I wasn't suggesting that the dichotomy is universal, nor was I necessarily asserting that it currently exists anywhere.  I was only trying to get a feel for how you strike your balance between ideology and victory.  I agree with you wholeheartedly that more liberal does not automatically mean less electable, which I think is exactly the mentality that seems to permeate entrenched Democratic leaders and trouble frustrated liberals.

I would very much prefer to see a fundamental shift in examining candidates from "how liberal can we get away with" to "how conservative can we stand".  I think that we're seeing the collision of those two mentalities in PA, in MN, in TN, in OH, in many places.  I'm not entirely sure how we reconcile the two sides of that coin ultimately, but my guess is that we start by ensuring that the elected officials that we put in Washington, regardless of ideology, take back the term "Democrat" and make it something to be proud of, not nervous about, when you reach the upper levels of politics.


by Lucas O'Connor on Fri Apr 28, 2006 at 03:12:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Long term straegy true to principles (none / 0)

I think Ben Nelson makes a fine Democratic Senator. I go to Nebraska often, and I know you can't win down in NE with a SF-style latte liberal.

This being said, the vast majority of conservative Dems do not represent Nebraska. They represent CT, NY (both of them), CA (Feinstein), DE, places where we should have progressive representation. And I happen to think this happens for a reason.

And unlike many idealists (such as Kos and Jerome) I'm not so sure anything can be done about this, thoug hI certainly hope so.

But on a personal level, I've voted against conviction one too many times, I just can't do it anymore.


by redstar66 on Fri Apr 28, 2006 at 03:26:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Long term straegy true to principles (none / 0)

redstar66
I voted for Bell at my Caucus straw poll, and mine was one of only 3 (out of 25) votes he received. My ward is in St. Paul. Very Democratic and diverse in it's make-up, but not radically progressive judging by who won the straw poll. I don't anyone was against Bell, but they didn't see why they sould vote for him.

I feel the disappointment you're expressing, and share the hope for crossover appealing progressives.

But, when I consider my Caucus, I don't think Shumer is particularly to blame for Klobuchar's performance. She is simply a much more visible figure than Bell. She's constantly in the local media as she does her day job. Bell is a complete unknown compared to her. I don't think her father's media experience hurts her when she needs positive or neutral tv and newspaper coverage. She's also done the hard work of becoming the DFL insider that she is. Endlessly speaking to groups, fundraising, and working the party events.

It may sadden us that party insiders win, but we have to recognize that it takes some work to get to be an insider, grinding boring work, and that there is a certain logic to working to be an insider: institutional support and name recognition.

Wellstone did it differently. He was an activist, and he supported national liberals/progressives within the party. He did the work with the grassroots for years and he meant it.

With this year's crop of progressives, I feel like some haven't done the work. And I mean also that we all haven't done the work. Someone like Bell has to get his name out there and gain a constituency long before the campaign begins. Otherwise the same pattern of insiders winning early will continue. People still want to know what a candidate is going to do for them, and so many want more than a list of policy positions and a promise to keep that list when the election is won.

Progressives are still working on how to give candidates the juice that they need to actually win, and candidates need to do more that pop up on our screen the year before the election, if they really want to represent us.


This administration sucks.
by thief on Fri Apr 28, 2006 at 04:00:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Long term straegy true to principles (3.00 / 1)

I get your point, but then, DFL insiders don't exactly have a great electoral track record in MN over the past two decades. If anything, they're responsible for the shades of purple cropping up in the state.

That said, I think you're forgetting what happened to Patty Wetterling.

I think you know how the game gets played in MN in terms of becoming an insider. It's DC writ large. Some folks think progressives need to work within that system in order to get their fair shake. I personally think that system has the fatal flaw of requiring things that only upper-middle class and wealthy people without kids have: time on their hands to volunteer, and money to spend.

As it happens, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the DFL's institutional failings, with insider candidates not winning anything but Att'y General in the recent past. Roger Moe. Skip Humphrey. Jerry Janezich. Ann Wynia. Many not making it past the primaries, and those that do getting beaten, sometimes badly, in a recently quite left state. So at a certain point one needs to ask why isn't this working.

I don't see that happening. Do you?

And I'm not convinced that "working within the system" will work in this case, though I do volunteer, have been precinct chair at caucuses most of the last decade, in St Paul like yourself.

If you're sensing some reform, I certianly ain't seeing it. I'm seeing the contrary, as Amy Klobuchar underlines. And unless she surprises me and starts talking like a Democrat, I won't be voting for her.


by redstar66 on Fri Apr 28, 2006 at 04:17:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Long term strategy true to principles (none / 0)

The DFL is indeed in trouble in the state. The seats they pulled in the house last time impressed, but the state-wide record of success is getting embarrassing. Losing twice to John Kline is the dreadful cherry on top on the general poor performance for me. And no I don't see any general reform of the party today.

I agree that progressives shouldn't go middle of the road and/or pretend to be insiders.

My point is a little different. The insiders at least have figured out how to do what they want. They haven't figured out how to give me what I want, but I don't think they are too worried about that. But they do know how to use a party apparatus to get their guys into the electoral contests. Progressives are still figuring this out.

I just think it's on us to figure out how to help our guys get further, and on the candidates to compete better and to take this more seriously.

Wellstone took politics, and party reform, very seriously and I just don't think that someone like Bell is taking it anywhere near as seriously.

If we aren't going to leave the party, and help it to become more conservative, we do need to figure something out. My suggestion is pretty general: we need to figure out how we are going to win a war of attrition against the triangulators.


This administration sucks.
by thief on Fri Apr 28, 2006 at 04:45:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Long term straegy true to principles (none / 0)

Did it ever occur to you that maybe ordinary Democrats don't agree with you? How is Casey being "threatened" by Pennachio? If there was a "threat" Pennachio would be receiving more than the single digits he is currently polling. There isn't a threat. For there to be a threat it actually has to be "threatening"!

Could it actually be that most Democrats in PA might like Casey? What do you say to the vast majority who will support Casey in the primaries? That they are wrong? That they should turn around and endorse Pennachio?

Again I don't think you realize that Democrats in places like AK, ID, UT, NV, AZ, NM, CO, WY, MT, ND, SD, NE, KS, OK, TX, LA, AR, MO, IA, KY, TN, OH, IN, AL, MS, GA, FL, NC, SC, VA, and WV don't share the same views that Democrats in places like San Francisco or Manhattan do. PA is more than just Philadelphia's Centre City precincts.


by jiacinto on Fri Apr 28, 2006 at 01:48:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Long term straegy true to principles (3.00 / 2)

Given your wing of the party clearly doesn't give a rat's ass what progressives think about the issues, as evidenced by your posts, why is it that you expect me to give any more of the same rat's ass what "ordinary Dems" such as yourself think about those same issues?

Just wondering.

You do see the hypocrscy, right?


by redstar66 on Fri Apr 28, 2006 at 02:27:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Actually, (none / 0)

Dems in Colorado are pretty liberal... perhaps more in line with New York or California than Georgia or Ohio.

We have a smallish African-American population, we don't have much rust-belt, traditional industry.

On the other than, the NON-DEM Colorado electorate differs from New York... more in line with non-dem California.


There's more of us than there is of them.
by MetaData on Fri Apr 28, 2006 at 07:17:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Long term straegy true to principles (none / 0)

Christian right ran their own candidates in primaries, and when they lost, they sat out the general election.

Ask Dubya's Dad. He knows a thing or two about this.

THAT, my friend, is the path to getting respect. Not stupidly toeing the right of center Democrat party line.


by redstar66 on Fri Apr 28, 2006 at 12:58:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Long term straegy true to principles (none / 0)

Does sitting out an election actually get respect? See, it goes back to what I wrote in many other Casey-Pennachio flame wars. There are some people here who just have to always find a reason why they can't support the Democrat. Heaven forbid if a Democrat actually wins an election.

Again, if you want to sit out fine, that's your choice. If Casey, Bean, and other less than perfect Democrats win without people like you, then no one will feel the need to listen to you.


by jiacinto on Fri Apr 28, 2006 at 01:25:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Long term straegy true to principles (none / 0)

Yes, sitting out elections can get respect.

Well, assuming the party whose attention one is trying to capture either can see the wisdom of giving that respect (and is able to follow through on that vision), then yes, indeed it can.
The GOP figured this out, and now the Religious Right have a seat at the GOP table. And so too do the libertarians (ask Ron Paul).

The Dem party hasn't figured this out, which is why folks who cross-over and vote Green get vilified by Dems.

Why is this?

I can't believe it's because the party doesn't have strategy people who lack vision to figure this out.

I figure it's because they can't talk to this constituency. Why not?

Because their corporate underwriters wouldn't like what they'd have to say.


by redstar66 on Fri Apr 28, 2006 at 01:31:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Long term straegy true to principles (none / 0)

Could it be that the Greens represent only 2.74% of the electorate and that they don't want to alienate the other 97.26% of the electorate?


by jiacinto on Fri Apr 28, 2006 at 01:38:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Long term straegy true to principles (none / 0)

Greens are but one part of the left electorate.

Most lefties still vote Dem, or don't bother voting at all when they see a dud being run as the Dem. And the Dems are running plenty of duds these days.

Check out the many voter topographies which are available, and when the polls are closed this November, ask yourself why turnout wasn't what the party expected.


by redstar66 on Fri Apr 28, 2006 at 02:29:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Long term strategy true to principles (none / 0)

"Because their corporate underwriters wouldn't like what they'd have to say." - redstar66

Exactly so, and a good marker is the candidate's position on "affordable healthcare."

A candidate who espouses a single payer healthcare system is not acceptable to Dem leadership because there's an obvious conflict with the insurance companies.

It doesn't matter that runaway costs in h/c, in both public and private sectors, is the federal budget buster and that single payer is the only feasible solution. The party must pay homage to the paymasters. Short term needs of the party (campaign financing) come before the long term strategic needs of the populace and the country (a decently functioning society).

Polling shows that much of the progressive agenda enjoys broad public support. The trouble is that our US Democracy, in it's present form, cannot deliver for the people what the people want. Conflicts with the needs/values of the corporate powers. Santorum and Casey shows the ultimate absurdity (for us) of this trend: which do you prefer, Coke or Pepsi?


by ekim on Fri Apr 28, 2006 at 07:48:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Long term straegy true to principles (none / 0)

So does that mean we progressives have to imitate conservatives now. I think not, and if you read my passive-aggressive argument about the sleeping giant, which is women waking up and realizing they are second class citizens, you will see why.  

I tell you now, only a party and candidates that have been true to the pro-choice related freedom causes will benefit from this awakening. All you have to do is stay true to your principles.  

What exactly do you do about your principles??


by NG on Fri Apr 28, 2006 at 04:17:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Long term (none / 0)

The problem for me is that when you don't vote, it doesn't send a message, it just delivers defeat.  I fully understand and sympathize with your frustration and don't see it as rigidity.  However I don't think that you will see much return on your frustration by not voting for the Dem candidate.  I've spent a lot of tortured time going around and around on this with myself, and while I think (as Bowers said) that you always vote your conscience in primaries, I also think that when it comes to the general you've got to let tactical considerations be part of the equation.  This is a point politically in which the first step towards retaking the country is simply making the term "Democrat" viable again.  While some of the wins might be distasteful, winning has to be a major consideration and ultimately overcome sending a message.  I begrudge no one who disagrees, but that's where I've ultimately come down.


by Lucas O'Connor on Fri Apr 28, 2006 at 01:33:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Long term (none / 0)

As I have said a number of times above, only those who are true to the freedoms elucidated by the pro-choice position will benefit when the sleeping giant awakens.  Trust your vision and judgement as much or better than the party regulars that have screwed up so much the last 20 years.  Think a bit longer term as well. The Dem party has basically screwed up by not listing and staying true to core principles!


by NG on Fri Apr 28, 2006 at 04:29:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

District Attorney? (none / 0)

Is the office up this cycle? challenged?

Not a local, but left with a bitter taste from her prosecutions of those arrested during the 2000 Republican National Convention. (Everyone who went to trial was acquitted.)




Democratic Candidate, US Senate, Wisconsin 2012
by benmasel on Fri Apr 28, 2006 at 10:33:28 AM EST

Re: District Attorney? (none / 0)

No, she has until 2009.  We had a wonderful challenger, Seth Williams, who got in the low 40s, with a huge cash disadvantage.

He is, however, thought to be the heir apparent in 09, whether she runs again or not.


Progressive Philadelphia Politics: Young Philly Politics
by DanielUA on Fri Apr 28, 2006 at 10:51:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My First Ward Committee Endorsement Meeting (none / 0)

eggcellent insight into the organic process!  and a good look into the exact thing i hope to get involved in here in W5D8.


--
Albert Yee
Philadelphia, PA
http://dragonballyee.com/blog
by Albert on Fri Apr 28, 2006 at 11:01:32 AM EST

Well (none / 0)

Since apparently my last comments were deleted, I hope that this post doesn't suffer the same fate. I still believe in what you had deleted, but I will address this issue from another angle.

You write:

"The Penn students always seemed to emphasize pragmatism: vote for the candidate who can win, don't make the establishment mad. The older African-Americans tended to support existing party leaders, and more for reasons that they believed in those leaders rather than pragmatism (though pragmatism was also an element). The older white progressives, including myself, tended to be the contrarians, and the anti-incumbent, anti-favorite votes always found their most support from this group"

snip

"The emerging white progressive consensus is clearly different for the emerging African-American consensus. There also remain quite a few emerging young activists, black and white, who dissent from the emerging netroots consensus, and who are still in favor of a triangulation strategy. These groups are still not doing a very good job of talking to one another. Also, there will be no netroots revolution unless we realize that there remains a gulf between the still generally white netroots and the much more diverse Democratic Party. White voters only make up around 65% of Democratic voters, but the progressive netroots is probably around 85% white. There is a gap, and we need to learn how to address it"
---------------------------------------- ---------

Back in 2000, when the Naderites were all over the place, I often noticed that the vast majority of them white, male, and at least middle class. Most of them were in college or well-educated young professionals. They didn't have much to lose in the election. They weren't the ones most likely to suffer under Bush's policies than other constituencies.

Maybe I misread your post, but I would assume that most African-Americans don't have the luxury of wasting their time and energy on candidates that have no chance of winning. They don't have the time to waste their "activisim" on novelities like Chuck Pennachio who have no chance of winning. Maybe it is because African-Americans are more impacted by government policy than whites and have suffered more from Republican policies.

In essence they can't afford to "send a message" by voting for Pennachio or letting Santorum win. Maybe they also actually want to win and not spend their time following candidates who are guaranteed losers. Maybe they actually are realistic about the political environment around them and don't want to throw their votes away.

I think that the reality is that when white America catches a cold, black America gets pnumonia. Blacks have more to lose when the wrong candidates win elections than whites. Thus they can't afford to involve themselves in symbolic, pointless protests that no one cares about, listens to, or hears. They actually have to support someone who can win and change things. They don't have the time--nor the luxury--to support a novelty like Chuck Pennachio.

Also, and this is something that I think many whites don't realize, blacks are also very religious. A lot of blacks are hostile to gay rights and not entirely pro-choice. So Casey's pro-life position doesn't probably irk them as much as he does with white liberals who are either indifferent and/or hostile to religious beliefs.

I guess that the reason why there is a racial gulf between white and black progressives is that neither group really understands each other. They probably don't always agree on issues such as religion. And they also don't have the luxury of wasting their votes on candidates who can't win.


by jiacinto on Fri Apr 28, 2006 at 11:25:44 AM EST

Re: Well (none / 0)

They sure have had a lot of practice in such waste over the last 20 years, now haven't they!  So now they "see the light" of conservatism and will now vote for winners from that camp.

I guess being on the winning side is all that counts in your book!


by NG on Fri Apr 28, 2006 at 11:32:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Well (none / 0)

I don't understand your comment.


by adamterando on Fri Apr 28, 2006 at 12:02:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Well (none / 0)

I am simply replying to jacinto's comment about blacks now voting for more socially conservative candidates when they have been pretty solidly behind social liberals over the last 20 years. Now are they to jump over to the conservative camp just because conservative whites are running the show abd winning. That would be short sighted and self-destructive in the long run.


by NG on Fri Apr 28, 2006 at 04:33:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Welcome to the real Dem demography (none / 0)

The dem coalition includes people committed to Progressive Economics, Peace & Justice, as well as to Liberal Social values. Not all of us are committed to all three.

Some of our best friends on economic issues or Iraq, may not agree with us on gay marriage or abortion. That is the reality of coalitions.

There are times to be strategic and times to be tactical; times to compromise and times to draw a line in the sand. I would suggest that this election cycle is one to compromise and be strategic.

I also agree that building the progressive wing of the party is a long-term process, that requires going back to the local level.


There's more of us than there is of them.
by MetaData on Fri Apr 28, 2006 at 07:28:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Well (none / 0)

IT was delted because it was identical to what you wrote in antoher thread. Repeating identical comments is not cool. That comment received a lot of discussion in that thread. Thank you for posting a new comment instead.
by Chris Bowers on Fri Apr 28, 2006 at 12:04:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My First Ward Committee Endorsement Meeting (none / 0)

I wonder if the votes would have been different if everyone at that meeting had been reading and commenting on blogs for the last 6 months. When we see students voting in favor of establishment candidates out of pragmatism I see where they're coming from. Those were close to my beliefs before I started reading blogs. Contrary to what some say blogs can change minds. I've read arguments on this and other progressive blogs that blow triangulation and consensus candidates out of the water. If those college kids knew those arguments and knew what was being accomplished here I'm almost sure most of them would have been voting with you.

So see if you can't get your ward committee onto the blogs.


by js noble on Fri Apr 28, 2006 at 12:11:49 PM EST

Good points (none / 0)

However, most college students don't have much time to read blogs, or they choose to spend their time in another fashion.

That's one of the big challenges at Penn - the campus is typically liberal, but people are hardly inclined to do much about acting on their political beliefs outside of voting in national elections.


by PsiFighter37 on Fri Apr 28, 2006 at 12:20:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Good points (none / 0)

so Penn is pretty much the entire country then.


by Lucas O'Connor on Fri Apr 28, 2006 at 01:37:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Not opting out (none / 0)

And if you can't stomach working for the party because it isn't progressive enough, aren't you really talking about just letting the party become even less progressive than before because you are leaving it?

I don't think that NN, at least, intends to "leave" the Democratic Party -- yes, it has a smattering of Greens and Independents, but most folks presume that working through the party will be at least as important as working despite it.  Unfortunately, the group is young enough that we weren't quite ready to recruit/train/push folks to run for committee everywhere, but we'll be there promoting Pennacchio votes in May and Casey (I presume) votes in November, while hassling the party about things they tend not to acknowledge (like the ethics reform measures).  Not every ward has lots of empty seats we can just jump into and take the world over...

acm


by redfox1 on Fri Apr 28, 2006 at 03:56:54 PM EST


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