Thoughts on Barack Obama

Tom Grayman is a pollster, publisher of The Intelligence Squad website, and author of the book Ghosts of Florida: Making Elections Fair for Blacks

I don't think Barack Obama is great.

Neither do I consider him a disappointment.

But I do think that much too much attention has been paid to, and too many expectations have been placed on the shoulders of, Senator Obama.

Before he set foot in the the Senate chamber, he was celebrated as the next political superstar, based entirely on the strength of his keynote speech at the 2004 Democratic National Convention.

That was a mistake.

To be sure, it was great speech, overflowing with optimism, bonhomie, and shout-outs to the some of the best of traditional Democratic ideals. And it was delivered with a high degree of articulateness.

Yet the adulation heaped upon Obama coming out of that performance was clearly disproportionate for a man who had not even been elected to the Senate at that point. After all, even Georgw W. Bush has delivered a couple of good speeches in his time in Washington.

So why so much love for Obama?

Typically, any black Democrat who credibly espouses what are typically thought of as traditional Democratic values will be positively received by the overwhelimg majority of black voters, and by a solid majority of white Democrats. But one thing that often helps that politician win "crossover" support from white Independents, and that can make him a superstar with white Democrats, is a willingness NOT to openly acknowledge the racial divide that exists in the US. Just like Obama did in his star-making speech.

Now even as we speak, there are those who are preparing to divide us -- the spin masters, the negative ad peddlers who embrace the politics of "anything goes." Well, I say to them tonight, there is not a liberal America and a conservative America -- there is the United States of America. There is not a Black America and a White America and Latino America and Asian America -- there's the United States of America.

Of course, he is correct -- literally speaking. There is only a singular internationally and internally-recognized entity called the United States of America. But rhetorically, Obama's assertion is ludicrously Pollyannaish. My personal preference for brevity doesn't allow me to list the various data, facts, and philosophical differences which demonstrate that there are, for all practical purposes, a white America and a black America -- even if some members of either nation freely exist within the other. Even the Vice Presidential candidate he was endorsing that night was famous for pointing out that there were "two Americas" (divided by economics and power, which often serve as good proxies for race in America).

Obama's assertion was perhaps his first in what will be a long string of efforts to blur reality in an effort to seem "reasonable" and "electable" to those who could someday determine his presidential destiny. Other such efforts have included:

his speech six months ago before the Council on Foreign Relations, where he told us


"The President could take the politics out of Iraq once and for all if he would simply go on television and say to the American people `Yes, we made mistakes. Yes, there are things I would have done differently. But now that we're here, I am willing to work with both Republicans and Democrats to find the most responsible way out.'"

 thereby ignoring the fact that the Republicans are not interested in finding any way out and that Bush won't admit any mistakes anytime before monkeys are seen flying out of my ass

and his appearance on ABC's "This Week," back in January in which he told us


"I will be supporting the filibuster because I think Judge Alito, in fact, is somebody who is contrary to core American values, not just liberal values."
while at the same time complaining that the filibuster is a sign that
"There is an over-reliance on the part of Democrats for procedural maneuvers."

And yet, I am not disappointed in Senator Obama. That's because I never actually anticipated greatness from him. It's not that I expected him to be a poor choice for the Senate. It's just that I've learned that when we fall head-over-heels for an elected official at first sight, we often wind up getting crushed.

Furthermore, I'm past expecting greatness from any U.S. Senator -- especially one who is widely discussed within the Beltway as near-term presidential material.

I'm past expecting Joe Biden to protect the finances of the middle class against MBNA's desire to re-write American's bankruptcy law.

I'm past expecting Hillary to acknowledge that it wasn't such a good idea to give George W. Bush the authority to launch an unprovoked military attack against a Middle Eastern Muslim country.

And I'm past expecting Barack Obama to publicly acknowledge that blacks and whites do largely inhabit separate Americas, no matter how much we wish it weren't so.

Now, on to the White House!



Display:


Re: Thoughts on Barack Obama (3.00 / 1)

Answer me this Tom:

If his rise to stardom was based entirely on his speech at the convention...Then how do you explain how he got a chance to give that speech in the first place?


by zt155 on Mon Apr 17, 2006 at 04:45:15 PM EST

Re: Thoughts on Barack Obama (none / 0)

Youthful, Black, Energetic, Non-confrontational, About to replace a Republican. Face of the party.


by Lucas O'Connor on Mon Apr 17, 2006 at 04:57:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thoughts on Barack Obama (none / 0)

My thoughts exactly.


by Tom Grayman on Mon Apr 17, 2006 at 05:01:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thoughts on Barack Obama (none / 0)

Way to de-bunk your own opinion Tom.


by zt155 on Mon Apr 17, 2006 at 10:13:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thoughts on Barack Obama (3.00 / 0)

ROFLMAO - This guy Barack Obama, he is a total zero to me. He hasn't done a single interesting thing since he's been in the senate. He sits around arguing with McCain, as if that represents a day job.

A senator should battle for the interests of his own state - so far I don't see that happening.

No, I am not dissappointed, per se - but the guy is just flat plain BORING right now. I don't even see why we're talking about this dude..

We should be talking about Feingold. There's a senator!


by turnerbroadcasting on Mon Apr 17, 2006 at 11:19:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thoughts on Barack Obama (none / 0)

Good luck finding another African American politician in the public eye for a reason other than a fistfight in the Cannon hallway.


by Lucas O'Connor on Mon Apr 17, 2006 at 11:28:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thoughts on Barack Obama (2.00 / 0)

I agree.  I am not sure he has done anything for my state.  

This will be controversial, but it is what I sincerely believe.  I would rather have Senator Mary Landrieu in the White House than Barack Obama.  She delivers for her state; she is outspoken; and I believe her politics would change radically if she were representing the nation and not just a demographically depleted Louisiana.  

Of course, Russ Feingold must be the next President.


by illinois062006 on Mon Apr 17, 2006 at 11:30:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thoughts on Barack Obama (none / 0)

THE GUY IS A SECOND YEAR, 1ST SESSION SENATOR FOR GOD SAKES!!!! FOR THE MINORITY PARTY!!!!

What would you expect him to have passed?  How many 2nd year Senators in EITHER party have major legislation passed.  

To compare him to a multi term senator is ridiculous.   And there is no way Landrieu's politics change if she is from a different state.  She is pretty much a DINO... not lieberman bad but close.


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Tue Apr 18, 2006 at 01:09:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Leave Metonym alone... (none / 0)

He's a second-year grad-student, for god sakes...


Invest in nature
by NCDem on Tue Apr 18, 2006 at 11:45:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thoughts on Barack Obama (none / 0)

I'm from Chicago u igit and barak has been an activist in the city since the f-ing 80's what aere talking about. He has highest edcational credentials of any president in the last fifty years. you know nothing


by KRCarter on Mon Sep 18, 2006 at 03:28:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thoughts on Barack Obama (none / 0)

I'm not sure what you mean.

I was agreeing with Lucas O'Connors thoughts on why Obama was given a slot at the convention. I don't see anything in there that debunks my main thesis on why Obama was treated like a megastar after the convention -- specifically that he was a black Democrat who openly rejected the idea that there are racial divisions in the US.


by Tom Grayman on Tue Apr 18, 2006 at 09:08:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thoughts on Barack Obama (none / 0)

Exactly.


by bruh21 on Mon Apr 17, 2006 at 05:16:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thoughts on Barack Obama (none / 0)

Actually, what probably got him the invite was his overwhelming performance across all groups from white suburbanites to inner city blacks in a crowded Democratic primary featuring a rich a scummy country clubber (who would have been as bad as Ryan had he got the nom) among others.  This cross support, the fact he opened the race before Ryan's drop out far ahead, and the fact Polls showed him ahead of many potential challengers once Ryan was replaced got him the invite.  I don't think replacing Fitzgerald was as big an issue, because Fitzgerald (while technically a GOPer) was a true Maverick senator (the reality to McCain's fiction)... I didn't like him, but I respected him... which I won't say about too many Republicans.  

The other thing is that he had was the Bill Clinton charisma factor... he just exudes it... it pours from him.  Like him and his policies or not, he comes across in a similiar manner as Bill.  He may not quite be at Clinton's caliber yet, he is as close as any politician I have seen in recent years and could very well be


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Mon Apr 17, 2006 at 06:09:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thoughts on Barack Obama (none / 0)

Bingo.  It's his charisma.  This is so important.  My wife just met him last week and she couldn't believe how personable and likeable he was.  Everyone there just loved him, and this was not some partisan political event.  There were former Bush voters falling on their face to meet the guy.  


by Eric11 on Mon Apr 17, 2006 at 06:38:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thoughts on Barack Obama (none / 0)

from my own blog:

Barak Obama came to Minnesota and gave a nice speech.
Barak Obama hit the right buttons and said the right things.
Very nice stories and high flying words.
But when he was done, he'd said nothing of any real worth.

No, I wasn't in the audience for his speech.
Yes, I listened to the audio feed, though I kept tuning out.
No, I wasn't impressed, hence the tuning out.
Yes, NeoLotus expects a great deal more from those who run the country.


by NeoLotus on Mon Apr 17, 2006 at 08:59:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thoughts on Barack Obama (none / 0)

Charismatic? Bill Clinton?

Perhaps you didn't read this damning anecdote in n+1  (from a review of Bernard- Henri Levy's stupid Tocqueville book):

"One of the finest scenes in the book, a scene that has haunted me since I read it, is set at the Democratic National Convention in Boston, where BHL comes face-to-face with Barack Obama, who has just given the speech that made his a household name:

"Bernard-Henri Lévy," he repeats, mocking me a little ... "With a name like that, you would have been a big hit at the convention." ... I ask, "And what about `Barack Obama'? With a name like that, and with the success you had last night, you should be able to become president of the United States in five minutes." He laughs. Thumps me on the chest, pulls away a little as if to gather momentum to land a better punch, gives me a hug, laughs again, and repeats, like a nursery rhyme, "Barack Obama, Bernard-Henri Lévy ..."

The embrace is paranoid, the familiarity grotesque. The two unheimlich homeboys, two mere names hugging like boldface refugees from Page Six, seem captured for a moment in a celebrity feedback loop. It portrays vividly the eerie absence in American public life that for Tocqueville was our specialty, the lack at the heart or the head that makes us so carefree yet so potentially scary. "


by Solomon Grundy on Mon Apr 17, 2006 at 07:26:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thoughts on Barack Obama (none / 0)

Hmm... SO lets see... you base your opinion on one anecdote from a french philosopher whose book you call stupid and whom many think is overrated (although to be fair he does have his own small following).

I base my opinion on having gotten to meet both of them and be in their vincinity.

So lets see what would be the better indicator...

You know I am going to take my face to face interaction as a little better way of forming an opinion than an obscure anecdote.

Besides, Do we have the conversation on video anywhere?  Do you know BHL is not making something up out of his ass?  Do you also believe everything you read in the tabloids or in Kitty Kelly as well?  


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Mon Apr 17, 2006 at 07:53:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thoughts on Barack Obama (none / 0)

Heh. Well, for me and everyone other than you, both your anecdote and Bernard-Henri Levy's are equally second-hand. Narrate yours for us, and perhaps it will be more compelling.

Even though I didn't care for BHL's Tocqueville book, I do know him to be a high profile public figure who regularly hobnobs with world leaders. It's ridiculous to put him in the same league as Kitty Kelly.

Plus the details of his anecdote are vivid enough for me to draw my own conclusions (that Obama is oddly smarmy, desperately ambitious, and, perhaps, soul-less). I haven't had the pleasure of meeting him in person, but when I do he will only be able to exceed my expectations.


by Solomon Grundy on Mon Apr 17, 2006 at 09:14:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thoughts on Barack Obama (none / 0)

Fair point.  However, others on here have met obama and BHL really is the only negative description I have heard of a face to face.  Not saying that others don't exist, but a lot of peopel who meet him are extremely impressed and sucked in by his charisma.  Nothing smarmy about him and doesn't come off as desperately ambitious.  I'm not sure why you would take that one unsubstaniated story... something described, not taped, as gospel but ignore anyone else who has met him.  Maybe it is because BHL writes prettier prose than the rest of us.  Ultimately it is one person's opinion.  Hell, I have read accounts of people who met Lincoln and thought he was an ignorant bumpkin.  Others thought him commanding and regal.  Formulating an opinion of his personality on entirely secondhand info based on a ONE TIME encounter just seems a little short sighted.

And for the record, while comparing BHL to Kitty Kelly probably isn't fair, BHL has many harsh critics of his work.  He always came off to me as more of a socialite of the political world than anything else.  One of those who truly fits the "Those who can do, those who can't teach" model.  


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Tue Apr 18, 2006 at 12:50:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Barack Obama is Bill Clinton Without the Nuance (none / 0)

except what you have been spoonfed.  The unmitigated, slightly racist gall that he was chosen for this or for that.  Did you ever say such a thing about Bill Clinton (the wonderboy from Arkansas or how about a young Mario Cuomo)?

Please read this to get a clearer picture of the man.

http://www.ericzorn.com/extra/obama/

Once your done with that, please read this

http://www.discoverthenetwork.org/indivi dualProfile.asp?indid=1511

Once you are finished, please come back to the table and repost your comments.

Personally, I have known Barack since his lowly pre-State Senate days.  He is a politician and a damn fine one.  He is Bill Clinton without the nuance. You must begin to respect his capabilities as a legislator and as a stateman.  Has he come out like Feingold and staked his claim.  No, he has not.  Did Bill Clinton ever do that prior to being President.  Not that I know of.  


by mwchicago04 on Mon Apr 17, 2006 at 10:07:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama is Bill Clinton Without the Nuanc (none / 0)

You must begin to respect his capabilities as a legislator and as a stateman.  Has he come out like Feingold and staked his claim.  No, he has not.  Did Bill Clinton ever do that prior to being President.  Not that I know of.

I must not do anything, for starters.  You say he isn't uncompromising (Feingold) or a compromiser (Clinton)...what's left?

As for Clinton not staking his claim prior to becoming President...how many governors do until they're running for President?  Did Bush the current, Reagan, or Carter play national politics before they started running for President? Governors don't have legitimate access to national media attention. They might get a passing story, but how many governors can the average political junkie, much less the average American, name off the top of their head?  How many of those have either already held (Corzine, etc.) or clearly aspire to further office (Romney, etc.)?


by Lucas O'Connor on Mon Apr 17, 2006 at 10:18:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Actually, I do think he is a compromiser (none / 0)

to his credit.  It is what wins elections.  Bush the campaigner was a moderate.  Clinton the campaigner was a centrist.   Presidential politics is different than Congressional or Senatorial politics.  

In Illinois, Obama was extremely popular outside of Chicago in the collar counties.  His other "base" came from the southern tip of Illinois near St. Louis.  He ran two campaigns.  In the south, more strident and in the collar counties more moderate and compromising.

Now, extend this local campaign to a national platform and you can predict how this will play.  In the north, strident and in the south more genteel.  Just the opposite of Illinois, but a winning strategy for any VP ticket.  

What we in the north must come to realize is that we are not the king-makers of presidential politics.  It has moved south, very south.  Give me a candidate (Warner even - Edwards without the hair) who can win in the south.  


by mwchicago04 on Mon Apr 17, 2006 at 10:53:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Actually, I do think he is a compromiser (none / 0)

You hint at what is the problem.  It seems that because he's already running for the next post (Pres or VP) that Senator Obama is self-censoring in an effort to not "offend" or "turn off," perhaps, the very voters you point out are so important now days -- Southern Whites, that may respond better to a more "genteel" approach.


Vox Mia -- Adding My Voice to the Chorus
by bedobe on Mon Apr 17, 2006 at 11:06:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Actually, I do think he is a compromiser (none / 0)

Will a two-faced campaign actually fly when facing A. A credible Republican and B. a national media that loves to destroy Democrats? I'm not sure that I even hope so.


by Lucas O'Connor on Mon Apr 17, 2006 at 11:13:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama is Bill Clinton Without the Nuanc (none / 0)

From the link you provided:


As the Democratic Party moved center in the 2004 campaign, Obama's web site quietly removed a blistering anti-war speech he had given in 2002 and replaced it with a milder statement more in step with the party line of Senators John Kerry and John Edwards.

http://www.discoverthenetwork.org/indivi dualProfile.asp?indid=1511

It is precisely this sort of thing that makes some us less enthusiastic about Sen Obama, then others in the party.  Does the Senator hold promise? Sure.  But the Senator has also proven himself to be, as the article puts it, a "chameleon," which is in keeping with any sort of pedestrian and common politician -- which, unfortunately for many of us, we were told he wasn't when he was first introduced onto the national scene; and it is precisely this that has disappointed -- at least it has disappointed me.  Now, I note below, I grant that more me, at the moment, my dissatisfaction with him is more over style/perception, rather than one of substance.

I would also ask you to see here for another take on Senator Obama:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rj-eskow/r unning-against-the-base-_b_18374.html


Vox Mia -- Adding My Voice to the Chorus
by bedobe on Mon Apr 17, 2006 at 10:35:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Barack Obama is Bill Clinton Without the Nuanc (none / 0)

"than" others in the party...

Damn quick posts... errors just slip by


Vox Mia -- Adding My Voice to the Chorus
by bedobe on Mon Apr 17, 2006 at 10:41:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I f you consider that comment then you must (none / 0)

consider this from the same site

"Obama nonetheless claimed that racism was the cause of the Bush administration's alleged indifference to the struggles of American blacks generally. "The incompetence was colorblind," said Obama. "What wasn't colorblind was the indifference. Human efforts will always pale in comparison to nature's forces. But [the Bush administration] is a set of folks who simply don't recognize what's happening in large parts of the country." Blacks in hurricane-hit areas were poor, Obama further charged, because of the Bush administration's "decision to give tax breaks to Paris Hilton instead of providing child care and education..."


by mwchicago04 on Mon Apr 17, 2006 at 10:57:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I f you consider that comment then you must (none / 0)

Yes, that statement was made during a meeting at of the Congressional Black caucus, and recieved little press -- in fact, the meeting may have even been a closed door meeting.  However, for his more public persona, the Senator opts for more a "compromising" tone.

Since you're such a strong supporter and so enthusiactic about Sen Obama, what's your take on the Eskow article?


Vox Mia -- Adding My Voice to the Chorus
by bedobe on Mon Apr 17, 2006 at 11:03:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thoughts on Barack Obama (none / 0)

Actually, he looked like he might be in a tight race in Illinois, before the sex stuff started actually spewing forth (sorry, I had to) on Ryan. He was given prime time to help him in the general.

By the time the convention came around, Ryan had dropped out, and the GOP had already been turned down by Mike Ditka, Ted Nugent, and some guy wearing a lobster suit. They left him slated, anyway.

I don't know anything about this kind of stuff, but I imagine that a young, articulate, MOR black man also helped put another diverse face on the party.


by JohnGor0 on Mon Apr 17, 2006 at 05:32:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thoughts on Barack Obama (none / 0)

I quite agree, John. The fact that Alan Keyes was the best candidate the Illinois GOP could come up with was truly inspiring to watch. Lyndon LaRouche probably would have polled better.

Obama's election was a fait accompli by the time election day rolled around.

I'm not dissing Obama; I'm simply saying that he ran, essentially, unopposed.


by Tod Westlake on Mon Apr 17, 2006 at 05:52:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thoughts on Barack Obama (3.00 / 1)

Obama would have wiped the floor with Ryan.  This was evident a week after the primary, before Ryan's sexual indiscretions were all over the papers.  


by Eric11 on Mon Apr 17, 2006 at 06:39:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thoughts on Barack Obama (none / 0)

Actually, there were rumblings of something huge before the primary. Ryan was even reacting to rumors from the Obama camp that they had something huge and were going to use it day 1 after the primaries.


by JohnGor0 on Mon Apr 17, 2006 at 10:00:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thoughts on Barack Obama (none / 0)

John, go back and read the polls.  To say Barack was in a tight race is total BS.  Ryan was behind Obama anywhere from 11 to 22 points (depending on the poll) BEFORE the scandal hit.  He didn't need the prime time slot to win (unless Ditka got in there)... However, given his crossover performance in the primary... leading all demographics to my knowledge in a crowded primary, made him a strong choice for the speech.


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Mon Apr 17, 2006 at 07:22:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thoughts on Barack Obama (none / 0)

I'm sorry. I can't tell your tone from your post, so let me amend.

It is my understanding that the Democrats either thought he would be in a close race, or Ditka was looking like a real possibility (he only declined after realizing he would have to back away from his endorsement deals).

Big picture, from a story I read at the time, he was slotted in at the convention to give him a boost in his election. Yes, I also believe that his physical attributes didn't hurt him.

Sounds like a bunch of people here have a real bone to pick with Obama. I think he's taking very safe stances in the Senate so he doesn't sully himself with complicated votes ala John Kerry.

I bet he runs for Governor in 2010, or pres in 2012.


by JohnGor0 on Mon Apr 17, 2006 at 08:46:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thoughts on Barack Obama (none / 0)

Your amendments make more sense.  I can't remember the timeline completely, but my thoughts were both Edgar and Ditka had ruled out a run before the slot was offered to Obama.  I had heard the spot wasn't offered until 3-4 weeks before the convention, at which point I believe he was way ahead in the polls and the two biggest opponents he could have faced in Ditka or Edgar had said no.  But I may have the timeline.  That being said, for some reason I don't remember his speech televised live... I saw it ona  replay... If they thought he was in a race wouldn't he have been in a different keynote spot.


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Tue Apr 18, 2006 at 12:40:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thoughts on Barack Obama (2.66 / 3)

It would be nice to find a politician, of any race, who would not only acknowledge racial divisions but also point out that it isn't inherently a bad thing.  That having a single homogenous "American" culture is neither possible nor desirable.  That at a time of immigration crises and xenophobic fervor, we should aspire not to a monolithic society but to one in which we're all able to be collaborative while retaining our unique perspectives and experiences.  That the whole IDEA of the damn country is that everyone not only has a right to live their own lives, but that the resulting multitude of opinions enriches the whole.

I admit that I was initially suckered in by Obama's speech for two equally foolish reasons (in retrospect); One- I projected my personal beliefs into his own ambiguity. I wanted to believe that his talk about a single United States was the window dressing of a deeper understanding of the socio-economic problems beneath racial divisions and set a goal of creating an integrated society by integrating the socio-political interests of different ethnic groups (clearly wrong). Two- I hoped that, even if his words ended up being misleading or hollow (which I'm used to by now), it might at least stir a few other people to action.  That is, even if he were faking it, maybe a few other people would actually make it.  That one I still somewhat hold out hope for.


by Lucas O'Connor on Mon Apr 17, 2006 at 04:53:49 PM EST

Re: Thoughts on Barack Obama (3.00 / 3)

I agree with zt155 that he came into that speech as a "rising star" of the party.  And for good reason -- I first met him in June 2003 at a small fundraiser, and everyone there was totally impressed and ready to work for him.

Also, I wouldn't believe for one second that Barack Obama is unaware of the issues facing Black America.  For me, his "Polyannaish" speech was a great exclamation of the American ideal.  I don't think we should lose sight of what we are fighting for while we're in the trenches.  

Sarah


by Sarah R Carter on Mon Apr 17, 2006 at 05:01:14 PM EST

Re: Thoughts on Barack Obama (3.00 / 1)

Seems to me it's all about interpretation.  He might be saying that we're all aspiring together to better things in which case it's the American Dream.  Or he might be saying that we're all facing the same obstacles, in which case it's Pollyannaish.

My guess is that he was, and probably still is, working with the belief that people can get over entrenched fault lines of race, gender, age, religion, and partisanism and find common ground with mutual respect and minds open to pragmatic, rather than ideological, innovation.  The problem is that nobody else is playing by his rules and so he can't get much traction.

If he isn't going to play ball Beltway-style (and I don't for a moment suggest that he should), then at some point he's got to step up and say "You know, all these rabid ideologues and their bitter partisanship are screwing up the government's ability to govern in the interests of the voters.  Congressman A, Senators C, D, and E and President B need to stop worrying about being good party members and start trying to be good Americans."

He doesn't have to be partisan about it, he just has to be loud about it and he has to be right about it.


by Lucas O'Connor on Mon Apr 17, 2006 at 05:12:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thoughts on Barack Obama (3.00 / 1)

I think that you just nailed exactly what he was and is saying, which makes me wonder why in your first post you seem to have soured on Barack.

He's not perfect and - indeed - he's already had missteps.  But generally, I think the message he's consistently been repeating is exactly what you seem to be urging him to say:  "You know, all these rabid ideologues and their bitter partisanship are screwing up the government's ability to govern in the interests of the voters.  Congressman A, Senators C, D, and E and President B need to stop worrying about being good party members and start trying to be good Americans."

Honestly, what's wrong with that message?  Moreover, what was wrong during a hugely divisive election to say that the country isn't AS DIVIDED as George Bush and the Republican party would lead us to believe?  That despite the admittedly different obstacles that people of different races, genders, religions, etc. face the country as a whole actually does agree on a whole host of issues (and in fact agrees with a progressive solution to those issues)?  

It's been a LONG time since a politician has articulated an intelligent, effective, and INSPIRING message that resonated with the majority of this country.  I think Barack has the ability to do that while staying true to his progressive beliefs if we give him a chance.  Which is why I DO see greatness in him and am not disappointed in him at all.      


by HSTruman on Mon Apr 17, 2006 at 06:04:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thoughts on Barack Obama (2.50 / 2)

The message isn't wrong if he'd just deliver it.  With apologies for the racial undertones, he needs to step up and call a spade a spade.  He can't be so terribly committed to working with THESE bunch of people.  Call McCain a right wing wackjob and damn the consequences as ideological blathering.  Call Lieberman a hawking Bush-shill and when Lieberman whines about how unfortunate these crazy young upstarts are, complain about how unfortunate these out-of-touch old Senators are who clearly aren't living in the same America as the rest of us.

My problem is that he's committed himself to not making any waves to such a degree that his legislative or ideological positions become irrelevant.  He's not going to ever accomplish anything if he can't bring himself to fight obstructionists.


by Lucas O'Connor on Mon Apr 17, 2006 at 06:20:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thoughts on Barack Obama (none / 0)

Yes. We are not in a position to triangulate, we are not in a position to govern right now, all we can do is OPPOSE and to FIGHT. When you're fighting werewolves, as we are, you need to make sure you're carrying plenty of silver bullets.
by sjs1959 on Mon Apr 17, 2006 at 08:44:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thoughts on Barack Obama (none / 0)

What are we fighting for?


by bruh21 on Mon Apr 17, 2006 at 05:18:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thoughts on Barack Obama (none / 0)

We're fighting for equality of opportunity, so that all Americans can take part in the American dream regardless of who their parents were or how much money they made.  This is why we push public education, progressive tax policies, health coverage for all, etc.

(At least, that's what I'm fighting for.  And I believe that's what Barack Obama fights for, too.)

Sarah


by Sarah R Carter on Mon Apr 17, 2006 at 05:32:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thoughts on Barack Obama (3.00 / 2)

We don't know what words mean outside of action. That's why this diary I think is on point. We didn't have Obama's word in the context of any action he had taken. It was our perception, but perception isn't enough.


by bruh21 on Mon Apr 17, 2006 at 05:59:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thoughts on Barack Obama (3.00 / 1)

What does anyone fight for?  It's not just a perception of him that we collectively pulled out of thin air.  He had a good record as a state Senator in Illinois before running for US Senate.  He had actual policy proposals when he began his race (he didn't have to emphasize them because, as mentioned elsewhere, he effectively ran unopposed).

I think being in the US Senate in the minority, especially as a most junior Senator, makes it very difficult to do what you want to do.  And I believe that Obama's heart is in the right place.

Sarah


by Sarah R Carter on Mon Apr 17, 2006 at 06:11:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thoughts on Barack Obama (none / 0)

We have objective ways of looking at people beyond the limitations you outline. We can ask ourselves are they thinking as I have mentioned strategically? Do they understand how to weld political power? The Carrot and the Stick. Do they know the power of name? We have examples of other Senators who are just as under the control of the Republicans who nevertheless gave the feel that they were left of center and leadership. It dont think these things are reducible to merely how we feel about people. I think reducing it to mere feeling is a choice that politicians hope that we will make because that we can never hold them accountable.


by bruh21 on Mon Apr 17, 2006 at 06:30:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thoughts on Barack Obama (none / 0)

I think "thinking strategically" can mean a lot of different things.  People talk with dirision about people doing things "just to get elected President," but that may be the best way to influence policy.  Would it be so wrong if that was his strategic goal?  I don't know if that's his goal or if his actions now are the most strategic way to get there.  Having talked to him and looked at what he's done so far, I trust him to do what he thinks is best in the long run.

As for reducing our perceptions to "mere feeling:" for better or for worse, that's the way that most people will evaluate their politicians.  I'm really glad that Barack Obama gives many, many people warm fuzzies.  In some ways, that's what political power is all about.

Sarah


by Sarah R Carter on Mon Apr 17, 2006 at 06:53:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thoughts on Barack Obama (none / 0)

I think this is where- and no disrespect- you and others start to talk out of both side of your mouth. You can't really have it both ways with this. Either he is the second comint of Christ- and we should accept him on blind faith- or we should do as people re doing. Critiquing him in terms of the politician that you are saying that he is now maybe acting like. If you are right- and he is doing this to be Prez- well that's not about the things we start this conversation off with. It was about him living up to being a leader who shares our values. I guess, unless, your value is simply to make him Prez? Minds isn't. My interests are to ask is he going to legitimately make things better. I say the jury is mostly out right now. We don't know how he is going to shape up. I do  know as of now- he's not being very impressive. The whole telling the left to quiet up thing on D Kos was offensive (and I am a moderate) because he needed to save that fire for the right. I also found the subsequent defense of Obama by those of his supporters interesting. It felt like an annointing. I don't believe in annointed leadership. I believe in a leadership this must continous prove to the American people why they should govern. And that's what I am getting at about the rhectoric. It's great language- but without more substance, it's just that. Language. Telling me what he did before he got in Congress is a little like telling me that Kerry was in the Vietnam war, and that's a reason I should vote for him for Prez. It's simply doesn't help with having a good discussion about where he is now. Again, if you are right- then he's not where he was when he gave that speech. And that would be even worse a shame, because I would like that man, and not the one trying to triangulate to be Prez.


by bruh21 on Mon Apr 17, 2006 at 08:43:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thoughts on Barack Obama (none / 0)

Well . . . no one's voting for him for President just yet.  There's nothing right now for him to be annointed with.  Everyone is still waiting to see what happens.  His language makes me very optimistic about what he will do.

(For the record, I don't necessarily condone any of his motions toward running for President, if that is indeed what he's doing.  I was just pointing out that one could argue that it would be a good way for Obama to spend his time if his goal is to push forward a progressive agenda.)

Sarah


by Sarah R Carter on Mon Apr 17, 2006 at 09:21:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thoughts on Barack Obama (none / 0)

I'm sorry but are you saying Obama is under the control of the GOP.  Please correct me, because that is what it seems like you insinuating here.  


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Mon Apr 17, 2006 at 07:29:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thoughts on Barack Obama (none / 0)

How you got that from what I said- well I have no idea. The contrarian in me wants to say to you that you are right. But, the side of me more interested in dialogue would say no you are wrong and that's the side that will talk. I personally don't know how leadership can improve if we can't critique it as tell them when they are going wrong. everyone seems to have their favorite person. I guess I don't. I see where they are good- and here where they are bad. I guess to sum up what I am saying is that rhectorically Obama in his speeches make me feel all good inside- but in terms of what he has actually been doing as a Senator- I am underwhelmed when compared to other Senators such as a Paul Wellstone.


by bruh21 on Mon Apr 17, 2006 at 08:35:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thoughts on Barack Obama (none / 0)

It sounded like you were saying Obama was under GOP control... much in the way Lieberman is.  I wanted to see if I misunderstood what you wrote and apparently I did which is god.  

My issue is that for some reason a senator who is still wet behind the ears is being blasted by several people on this site, while others are ignored.  No Senator is perfect... even Feingold, who many here (myself included ) are so ga ga over has his share of less than popular actions... the affirmation of Roberts being one the of the biggest that comes to mind... yet he is now getting a free pass on that.

But I ask you and all the other Obama haters... please name me a Senator in recent who passed major legislation in their first 2 years in the senate, especially as a member of the minority party.  Even someone like Hillary was pretty quiet that first cycle.  Maybe, just maybe he is making an effort to be bi-partisan so that he can get some legislation passed.  Maybe he is leaving the attack speeches to the ACTUAL party leaders like Dean, Reid, etc whose job it is to do that.  He may be a media darling, but he is not the party leader you and others seem to make him.  He is not the whip, he is not the minority leader... give him time... be patient and stop expecting an instant payoff.  

Give the guy a break.


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Tue Apr 18, 2006 at 01:23:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thoughts on Barack Obama (3.00 / 1)

here's what I get from you here, please do correct me if I'm off on something:

Obama would be great if it were made easier by delivering a majority.  But since Dems are in the minority, it's unreasonable to expect that Senators with their hearts in the right place and innovative policy ideas would actually be accomplishing anything.

And so I have to wonder, if we're just stockpiling talent for when we finally get the majority, why do Democratic legislators even need to show up?  If they inherently can't deliver on any of the things that got them elected without having a majority, then what are they doing in Washington in the meantime?

Perhaps this comes off as overly harsh towards Obama or Dems in general, but he wasn't elected to wait for the majority, he was elected to bring us INTO the majority.  And if being in the minority is to be an excuse for not accomplishing what you set out to do, then we're right back to racial politics aren't we?


by Lucas O'Connor on Mon Apr 17, 2006 at 06:59:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thoughts on Barack Obama (none / 0)

Obviously, I'd prefer that Obama were the answer to our collective prayers and would deliver us from minority status.  

I'm just pushing back on the backlash going on here.  None of the other 45 Democratic Senators have been able to deliver us either.  If it's a Herculean effort that's required, it seems unfair to blame Obama for not being able to come in, put the whole party on his back, and carry us across.  I do believe that he, along with plenty of other good Democrats, has been doing the best he can to keep the damage done by the Republicans at a minimum.

I'm also glad that he's in our talent stock pile for future use.

Sarah


by Sarah R Carter on Mon Apr 17, 2006 at 07:16:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thoughts on Barack Obama (none / 0)

I agree with you that it's unfair to be picking on Obama when nobody else is getting it done either.  I readily admit that I'm no expert on his record as a State Senator, but if I'm to believe you and other Obama advocates (and I want to), then expecting him to simply be another Senator sells him short.  Maybe he's not the guy to lead Democratic Senators out of the wilderness, and if that's the case, I'm ok with it.

But if he's as sharp and talented as people keep saying he is, well...he's got the platform.  Anything he does is gonna get tons of coverage.  He's one of the least anonymous Senators of either party, the media is desperate to cover him, the roots are desperate to lay down in traffic for him.  It seems to me that he's got the ideas, he's got the access, and he's got the army if he ever decides to use it all.  And so my problem boils down to this:  While it may have been unfair and/or unrealistic for him to be annointed as the great savior of the Democratic Party (and it probably/certainly was), he's what we've been asking for all along- innovative, charismatic, popular, and a recognizable/marketable brand for the party.  If the guy with the best shot chooses not to take it, where does that leave the party?  Yes it's unfair to hold him personally accountable for that, but the implications aren't particularly pleasant.  At some point abilities become responsibilities.


by Lucas O'Connor on Mon Apr 17, 2006 at 07:30:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thoughts on Barack Obama (none / 0)

I'll agree with that.  While he has done more traveling and speechifying than most junior Senators, I do wish he would use his platform even more.

Sarah


by Sarah R Carter on Mon Apr 17, 2006 at 07:35:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thoughts on Barack Obama (3.00 / 0)

Actually Lucas, he was elected to SERVE the people of Illinois.  Let us not forget that a Senator's first allegiance should be to his constituents even above his own party.  After all, they are the ones who give him or her the power in the first place.  The GOP has demanded party allegiance over constituentcy allegiance and has screwed the country up royally.  Don't tell me you want our party to follow in the same footsteps.


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Mon Apr 17, 2006 at 07:32:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thoughts on Barack Obama (none / 0)

Actually yitbos96bb, he was elected to represent the collective best judgement of the citizens of Illinois.  Which does not mean serving the interests of Illinois above the interests of the entire nation.  Everyone's first allegiance is to the strength, security, and prosperity of the nation as a whole.

If he believes in the principles of the Democratic party, then it is natural to assume that voters of Illinois also do.  If so, the best avenue to achieve the enaction of those principles is via the party reaching a majority.

The GOP has indeed demanded party allegiance over constituency allegiance but that isn't why they've screwed up the country.  They've screwed up the country because they didn't couple party allegiance with open internal debate.  And by being wrong about everything :).  I invite Senator Obama or any other Senator to passionately and loudly annunciate all of their beliefs, but also to realize that what they might personally prefer is not necessarily best for the country or for their direct constituents.


by Lucas O'Connor on Mon Apr 17, 2006 at 08:42:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thoughts on Barack Obama (none / 0)

I guess this is a disagreement of branch philosophy.  Yes, sometimes the allegiance has to be to the nation as a whole.. however, the first allegiance should be to the people who put them in office.  If a senator constantly goes against the will of those he represents, he will be out of a job at the next election.  For instance, Dem or Republican... if an Iowa senator tried to get rid of corn subsidies, they would be in deep trouble with their constituents.


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Tue Apr 18, 2006 at 01:51:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

some action (3.00 / 1)

Back in November 2005, I did a diary on the Deceptive Practices and Voter Intimidation Prevention Act of 2005 which he had just introduced in the Senate.

That's the kind of stuff he stands for.


by Adam B on Mon Apr 17, 2006 at 06:15:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: some action (3.00 / 1)

I am sorry, but I am not. I have a pretty high standard for what impresses me. Effectiveness is a big first hurdle that must be demostrated. I haven't seen any sense of strategic thinking. In order to get to Brown v. Board of Education- it took decades of planning and strategic action. He hasn't demostrated in any bit by bit planning or even in bold moves that he is thinking that way. Voting is a pretty safe issue.  So far, I would say my biggest problem with Obama is that he is of the react to others mode of leadership which leaves the Democratic Party at the  mercy of Republican strategy. Strategic thinking is realizing that you need both the stick and carrot, not just the carrot. My question, if I were asking Obama a question, would be at what point does he think its okay to attack the Republicans? Where does he think we need to use the stick. And, will he wait to see where the wind blows in his analysis, or will he act strategically to shape opinion. In his D Kos piece, that was what was missing. A fundamental sense that his duty is not only to tell us where he thinks the American people are- but how to move them to where they to go. I would call the later leadership, and the former a politician.


by bruh21 on Mon Apr 17, 2006 at 06:26:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: some action (none / 0)

Let me ask you a question Bruh.  Name me the last president that sucessfully attacked the opposition party as savagely as you suggest before he was a Presidential candidate, and while he was a senator or governor.  

The guy is a junior senator during his first congressional session.  He is among the low men on the power structure in the Senate.  He is a rising star BUT HE IS NOT PARTY LEADERSHIP.  Let Durbin, Reid, Pelosi, Kennedy etc do the attack speeches.  There is no reason for Obama to do it at THIS point in his career.  Even a figure such as hilary wasn't doing what you are calling for her first 2 years.  

I would like to hear who you think is the perfect leader in this regard.  Someone that does everything you suggest in your post.  It isn't Reid, it isn't Dean ( a man I admire) it really wasn't even Clinton.  It seems like you are tilting at Windmills here in search of the Impossible Dream.  The type of person you say is a FANTASTIC leader... no one denies that... but they also seldom win elections either.  


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Mon Apr 17, 2006 at 07:42:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: some action (none / 0)

Everything you just asked can be looked up by you- and that's what I am going to suggest. Look at how the Republicans handled clinton in his first 100 days versus the Democrats. Like the other poster above- you want your cake and want to eat it too. If he is just a Junior Senator who has no real power, then why should we laud him for being no one particularly important? Is that what you are arguing because we both know that's not true. If as I suspect you know- he's more than that because of the power that he has of the pulpit (indeed we aren't discussing other Senators right now- they didn't even discuss Mosley Braun like this- a more conservative Senator by comparison) - if he has power (any more than a normal Junior senator would expect to have), then your argument loses on its face. And again, we know he has more power than the typical junior Senator. So this whole argument is specious. This conversation reminds me of BlueNC a person who was trying to defend Joe L by saying- well there is only one type of power and that's the voting record. There are many types of power. How you leverage that power is how you can win or lose battles. The Democratic Party, as a party, has tended in to not focus on how to negotiate better outcomes. To the degree that Obama contributes this by thinking he can win solely with the carrot- is the degree to which I question his leadership. He is right that leadership is sometimes about compromise- but not always. I don't believe in perfection. I just want a better sense that he gets that.


by bruh21 on Mon Apr 17, 2006 at 08:58:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: some action (none / 0)

Tried to look it up... I couldn't find any.

I never said laud him... I am saying there is no reason to attack him the way many people are.  

I agree one can leverage power.  What I am saying is that it TAKES TIME to leverage said power.  Even Hillary, who could be considered as high profile as Obama was when she took office, played it low key the first two years.  This is part of politics.  Not only to keep from pissing off the opposition to the point that you can't get anything done... but to keep from pissing off those in your own party who have paid dues and aren't getting the same hype.  

Again, do I think he has a strong potential to be a Presidential candidate... absolutely.  DO I think he should be a VP or Pres candidate in 2008?  Absolutely not... he is not ready.  All I say is give him time to become a leader.  I expect to see more and more over the next 4 years as he takes a leadership role.

The other thing to think about is this... It is possible the Party leaders have told him not to be a firebrand.  If they are grooming him for higher office, they may want him to have few controversial remarks.  This is of course speculation...


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Tue Apr 18, 2006 at 02:08:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thoughts on Barack Obama (2.00 / 2)

I reside in Barack Obama's neighborhood, and I am a member of the university at which he was an Adjunct Assistant Professor.  I too found his remarks on race somewhat puzzling, as Chicago is one of the most segregated cities in the United States.  Also problematic was his Senate victory speech, which he flooded with a whole set of gratuitous religious tropes I found utterly offensive.  And then I had the pleasure of encountering his "autobiography" at virtually every convenience store in my neighborhood.  Not only was it patently written by a ghostwriter; it was the most trite revision of the American dream with a dash of 1980s multiculturalism I have ever read.  To be quite honest, I have no opinion of Obama, as he is a standard politician.  Some may find his youth, his height, his flesh and his manufactured smile alluring.  I view his image as so many cosmetics that serve to disguise something he and his handlers wish not to disclose.


by illinois062006 on Mon Apr 17, 2006 at 05:11:14 PM EST

Re: Thoughts on Barack Obama (3.00 / 3)

1.  Obama was Senior Lecturer in Law at the Law School.  I should know -- I took two courses from him, and saw him smile authentically on many an occasion.

2.  Please provide some evidence that he did not write his memoir himself in 1994-95, or retract that ugly, shameful smear.  

We understand it, Ken: you don't like Obama because he endorsed Tammy Duckworth.  But that's no reason for all your lies, or for your ratings abuse.  Maybe it's time for your third (fourth?) banning from this reality-based community, Ken/Metonym/Formalist/ilyayavitz/illinoi s062006.


by Adam B on Mon Apr 17, 2006 at 05:33:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thoughts on Barack Obama (3.00 / 1)

Totally off topic, but...

What kind of prof was he?


Progressive Philadelphia Politics: Young Philly Politics
by DanielUA on Mon Apr 17, 2006 at 05:42:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thoughts on Barack Obama (3.00 / 1)

Challenging.  Unafraid to espouse arguments he disagreed with if it provoked students into realizing the weakness of their own views.  Well-prepared.  Exceptionally available to students to discuss things outside of class.  And impeccably well-dressed -- where most of the faculty wore yawn-inducing suits, he rocked a nice sweater collection.

Let's put it this way: the man inspired me to write a 20-page rebuttal to my own college senior thesis as one of my papers for the class.


by Adam B on Mon Apr 17, 2006 at 05:47:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thoughts on Barack Obama (3.00 / 1)

It's easy to talk as a professor than it is to substantive act as a legislative official. I am not disparaging him- but I went to law school too. I know how law professors can be academically a challenge, but have no real world resonance when it comes to actual action. The critique that I am seeing of him is that his actions so far don't match his rhectoric. Paul Wellstone, by all accounts, was an incredible professor. But, we know from his legislative action that he was also a great Senator. We know this because of his record as a Senator- not as a professor and what he did there.


by bruh21 on Mon Apr 17, 2006 at 06:12:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Sure. (none / 0)

And it's a lot easier to get things done in a majority than where he is right now.  But when he was in the Illinois State Senate:
He was the chief sponsor of a new law to require police to record all interrogations and confessions in homicide cases, a cornerstone of efforts to end the disastrous record of wrongful convictions in this state. He was a leader in efforts to pass a substantial ethics reform package, which was signed into law last year. He played a key role in welfare reform legislation and the state's Earned Income Tax Credit, a boost for the working poor.

See more via Scott Turow.
by Adam B on Mon Apr 17, 2006 at 06:24:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sure. (none / 0)

Focusing on the past, you are.  I prefer to discuss the present.  Nostalgia only accomplishes so much.


by illinois062006 on Mon Apr 17, 2006 at 08:32:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sure. (3.00 / 1)

Ironic that an Art History Doctoral Candidate is complaining that someone is focusing on the past and that they prefer to discuss the present.  After all the history of any subject is a study of the past to put it very simplisticly.  


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Tue Apr 18, 2006 at 02:27:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thoughts on Barack Obama (none / 0)

As someone who teaches at the University of Chicago, I must say I peform a certain role for my students when at the podium.  Judging someone from their presentation in class or during office hours is frankly ridiculous: yes, they may be a good teacher, but whether or not they are an honest human being with integrity and judgment is an entirely different matter.


by illinois062006 on Mon Apr 17, 2006 at 08:47:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Metonym... (none / 0)

You're a T.A.  You must get over this self-obsession.


Invest in nature
by NCDem on Tue Apr 18, 2006 at 11:26:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thoughts on Barack Obama (3.00 / 1)

Thank you for posting this, Tom.  You express my sentiments exactly.  I have no beef with Obama, and my family was happy and proud to vote for him, but he's not a Magical Negro no matter how badly some Democrats wanted him to be.  

I just shake my head as he's now being vilified by the very same people who hyped him up so much after that speech.


by dramachick on Mon Apr 17, 2006 at 05:33:36 PM EST

Re: Thoughts on Barack Obama (3.00 / 1)

He was hyped very much so by the big liberal blogs right around the time of that speech. Talking about how great a President he would be, despite the fact he was unproven and really unknown.  Mix in 1/3 Lieberman, 1/3 Biden, and 1/3 Kerry and you have Obama.

What a waste of talent.


by padcrasher on Mon Apr 17, 2006 at 05:36:14 PM EST

Reminds me of a story Harry Truman once told (none / 0)

President Truman had an approval rating of 28% by the end of his presidency.  At one point he remarked to one of his advisors saying "If I walked on water, the headline of all the papers would read 'President Can't Swim'"

That's how I sometimes see the blogosphere.  It doesn't quite matter what anyone does, because it will never be perfect.


John McCain wants to stay in Iraq for a century.
by jkfp2004 on Mon Apr 17, 2006 at 07:30:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thoughts on Barack Obama (none / 0)

Even the Vice Presidential candidate he was endorsing that night was famous for pointing out that there were "two Americas" (divided by economics and power, which often serve as good proxies for race in America).

I worry this is going to sound like nitpicking, but it's intended as a serious question asked by a white guy trying to better understand issues of race. I assume that you used the word "proxy" loosely, to mean "stand-in".

If that's the case, how is economics and power a proxy for race? Are lower income, less-powerful white people any less included in that America?

Is it that the obstacles they (or their children) need to overcome are fewer than blacks in the same situation? (Is it the same situation?)

Tom, if you'd spare some time, I'd appreciate it a great deal.


My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right. Sen Carl Schurz
by Bill Rehm on Mon Apr 17, 2006 at 05:37:08 PM EST

Re: Thoughts on Barack Obama (none / 0)

African-Americans are more likely to be of lower socio-economic and politcal status than whites. When John Edwards speaks of "two Americas," America #1, however exactly he defines it, is highly disproportionately black. America #2 is highly disproportionately white.


by Tom Grayman on Mon Apr 17, 2006 at 06:16:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thoughts on Barack Obama (none / 0)

Well, yeah. That's a given -- a larger proportion of blacks are poor than whites.
But there are more poor whites than poor blacks, for obvious demographic reasons. So
how is poor and powerless a proxy for race?

I came from a family of 12 children. Our family hovered around the poverty line throughout
most of my childhood, until we got old enough for Mom to go to college on the GI bill
as a WWII vet. Two incomes pulled us into the middle class.

I'm becoming more convinced that Edwards (who I haven't really warmed up to,
although he's actually living and working in my corner of NC) has it right.

Or, as has started cropping up on the blogs, it'a the toppers and the rest of us.
My family could survive, for a time, the loss of a job. Not an indefinite length of time,
though.

I think maybe you're assuming I can take your observation to a particular logical conclusion,
but I can't.


My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right. Sen Carl Schurz
by Bill Rehm on Mon Apr 17, 2006 at 08:01:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thoughts on Barack Obama (3.00 / 1)

The point is that there are divides that are not created by negative ad people, as Obama would apparently have us believe, but by various powers that be. Until I hear Obama call those people out, in public, I feel that he is working too hard to play to an audience of future presidential voters.


by Tom Grayman on Mon Apr 17, 2006 at 09:59:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thoughts on Barack Obama (none / 0)

I agree with that completely. And your post certainly gave me a more rounded perspective of Obama's speech. I had naively thought of it in terms of Dean's pseudo-infamous

"White folks in the South who drive pickup trucks with Confederate flag decals on the back ought to be voting with us, and not them, because their kids don't have health insurance either, and their kids need better schools too."

A calling out of the GOP on the Southern Strategy, the gay marriage haters, the Tancredo Border Patrol, etc.

I realize my question was something of an aside to the point of your post, though. Thanks for humoring me this far.


My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right. Sen Carl Schurz
by Bill Rehm on Mon Apr 17, 2006 at 11:49:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thoughts on Barack Obama (3.00 / 2)

It might be possible to equate it to some of the rhetoric on MyDD about changing the frame of the debate.  Black culture has been forged in poverty whereas white culture has been forged in relative affluence.  The road to economic or political success is presumed to be open by whites and presumed to be closed by blacks.  If nothing else, blacks have that legacy to overcome.

Furthermore, a large chunk of white America resents blacks trying to move into middle or upper class situations (because whites fear that their own power is threatened)- as do many blacks (the aspirants become sellouts or Uncle Toms).

You have to go back to Antebellum America to find the practical origins of current society.  It was the opportunity for blacks to integrate economically into society but they were kept in subservient roles for various reasons.  As such, the economic model for the next 150+ years was defined by two key principles while the entire country built/rebuilt itself:  Keep the rich rich and the poor poor (social darwinism) and keep the whites white and the blacks black (segregation).  In this way, while the economy was organizing to keep poor people poor, society was organizing to keep blacks poor.  A double whammy for black society.

While the legal obstacles have, over the past 50-60 years, been removed in terms of access, rich white people control the bank ledger and the legislative agenda.  The mechanisms that have been forged to facilitate upward mobility were closed to blacks for so long that white people, whether poor or not, are more plugged into the network than others.

Because of the way that the road upward has been built, it often requires that non-whites buy into "white" culture in order to succeed.  This mechanism breaks the cultural and societal bonds that rising blacks have with organized black society and thus creates a disconnect between aspiring and affluent blacks.  What black society lacks (though is slowly building) is successful, independent blacks.  People who prove it possible to be successful and affluent without integrating into existing white business constructs.  This is not a promotion of segregation as it may seem- rather it's the recognition that white resistence to economic and cultural integration is fear of losing what they've already got.  As blacks (or other minorities) create their own wealth, it becomes easier for blacks to move up into traditionally white areas as well as new black enterprises.

Essentially it comes down to this: The people that have money and power don't ever want to give it up, but if they have to, they're more interested in sharing it with another white person.  Part of it is racism, conscious or not.  Part of it is culturalism- they can relate to and have ties to where other white people are coming from.  Part of it is, by extention, networking- in the current system, knowing a ton of white people is simply more likely to deliver a useful business contact than knowing a ton of black people.  The system was built by and for white society, so crashing that gate is tougher if you're black.


by Lucas O'Connor on Mon Apr 17, 2006 at 06:44:05 PM EST
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Re: Thoughts