Stop Talking About Red and Blue

Rob Anderson of The New Republic has posted a response to Matt's story about what he saw as progressive blogger-bashing in defense of Ben Domenech. It's an interesting self-defense, and I think he deserves some credit for logging on to respond directly, so allow me to front page some of his comments.

My article is about conservatives in the media and what type of conservatives one boss at one blue-state media outlet is looking to hire to be his in-house right-winger (and, of course, how that boss isn't just an extreme-liberal outlier). The world needs less right-wing blowhard pundits. For that to happen, the media gatekeepers have to accept that there are conservative pundits out there who aren't shrill and who can write intelligently and politely (and who don't personally insult writers because of what they write...uh-hem).

I can see where he's coming from, but I still agree with Matt in criticizing the original article. Rob's key point seems to be that "blue-state elites" are simply out of touch with real "red America." I don't buy that, but possibly for a different reason than Matt. The use of the "blue state," "red state" constructs is completely off. Rob seems too eager to accept that we're living in a nation cartoonishly divided along red/blue lines. The red Americans are real, honest Americans, while blue Americans are snooty intellectual elites. This has become conventional wisdom in the Beltway and beyond, and it's as personally insulting as it is misguided.

Rob seems to miss the point of The American Prospect list of blue state/red state statistics he cites. The point wasn't that blue staters are actually better than red staters. Rather, it was to point out the folly of taking for granted the idea that folks in the red states aren't quite so "morally elite" as the conventional wisdom would have us believe. Oddly enough, only a few days ago, another article ran in the print edition of TNR that also worked at chipping away some of the CW. Jonathan Chait's latest 'Washington Diarist' column takes on this very topic.

In yet another nervous liberal attempt to placate the red-state hordes, The Washington Post recently started a blog called Red America. The blog's author, displaying a typical hair-trigger sensitivity to blue-state elitism, used his first entry to flay his Post editors for their unfamiliarity with the 1984 pro-gun action flick Red Dawn. He also proceeded to declare, "Red America's citizens are the political majority." Except that the blue states accounted for more than half the population in 2000. Conservatives cope with this inconvenient fact by redefining blue states as a few urban enclaves and making a fetish of the political map, with its misleadingly large, depopulated red states. To take a typical example, a 2004 postelection Wall Street Journal column by Daniel Henninger announced triumphantly, "[I]f you adjust the map's colors for votes by county ... even the blue states turn mostly red. Pennsylvania is blue, but, between blue Philadelphia and Pittsburgh, every county in the state is red. California, except for the coastline, is almost entirely red." This is a persuasive point if you believe in the principle of one acre, one vote.

Tom Wolfe recently took this analysis a step further, declaring that the blue-state elites are not part of the United States of America. "They literally do not set foot in the United States. We live in New York in one of the two parenthesis states. They're usually called blue states--they're not blue states, the states on the coast. They're parenthesis states--the entire country lives in between." I wonder if Wolfe and his fellow travelers realize how much their mau-mauing of blue staters is, well, Maoist. Mao, like the contemporary American right, saw his country as divided between the great virtuous, patriotic interior and the decadent, traitorous coastal cities. Intellectuals--or, in the Maoist parlance, the "stinking ninth category," a phrase so pungent and catchy I can't believe Bill O'Reilly hasn't picked it up yet--were forcibly relocated from the cosmopolitan cities to the countryside to "learn from the poor and lower middle peasants."

He also points out the absurdist logic of painting culture in red America as good and culture in blue America as bad, as so many Republican pundits enjoy doing. He calls it "an orgy of reverse snobbery." Again though, even Chait falls prey to accepting some ridiculous premises. 'Red America' was a "nervous liberal attempt to placate the red-state hordes." Right, there's that liberal media meme again. Domenech's mention of Red Dawn was a result of his "hair-trigger sensitivity to blue-state elitism." Damn those blue state elites! But the hordes hounding the Post for "balance" weren't red staters at all. They're Republican Beltway elites who are just as out of touch with rural America as rural America is with urban America.

The problem is not that the progressive minority are out of touch with the conservative majority, as the blue and red characterizations make it seem. The problem as I see it is that, inside of the insular Washington, DC punditocracy, people have forgotten about the rest of America. To them, it's just a map. Everyone in the red part of the map thinks, feels, and believes X and everyone in the blue thinks, feels, and believes Y. They forget that 51% to 49% isn't a landslide. They forget that the largest majority is the colorless group who feel so left out of the process that they don't even vote. They certainly care about issues like Iraq and healthcare and the economy and the environment, but they've been bombarded with so many messages about nonsense identity politics that they no longer know which end is up. I'm not the first person to say it, but we need to stop talking in terms of red and blue. It's a false dichotomy.



Display:


Rob Anderson should blame the right (3.00 / 1)

There are conservative pundits out there who are not shrill?   Who are they?   The right has only itself to blame.   They make heros out of guys like Limbaugh and Hannity types who peddle nothing but cheap lies and slime (or as Alec Baldwin recently described it, political porn).  These people then become the face of conservatives.  

If the right wants to be taken seriously they need to first come out and denounce the RedState.coms, and the Limbaughs and the Coulters, and the rest of this crowd.  That won't happen though, because most on the right LOVE these type of pundits.


by dpANDREWS on Thu Mar 30, 2006 at 02:38:23 PM EST

Re: Rob Anderson should blame the right (none / 0)

Of the political blogs I read, I'd cite The American Scene as a very evenhanded right-of-center one -- www.theamericanscene.com.  (Though I don't know if either of its writers would qualify as a "pundit").  Ditto Andrew Sullivan.  

-Toby


by TobiasAC on Thu Mar 30, 2006 at 03:11:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stop Talking About Red and Blue (none / 0)

Your falling into a trap.  Chait likes the culture war, because it saves him from the trouble of having to disagree with Bush on anything significant, which he doesn't.  He is one of the people who encouraged Kerry to run on not being Busha and is encouraging Dems to run on not being republicans.  Blue state and Red States are completely irrelevant.  There is such a thing as a blue state elite and it is called a DLCer, if it is a republican it is called neocon, and they run tnr, and the Washington Post, and dream up issues like nascar dads.


Dameocrat Blog also Stray Roots Messageboard
by Dameocrat on Thu Mar 30, 2006 at 02:58:20 PM EST

It's not only a false dichotomy... (3.00 / 1)

...it's a potentially lethal one. Rwanda shows us that people can be persuaded to machete their soccer team-mates, and the mothers of their children's schoolmates, as long as the victims can be made 'the other' suffciently forcefully.

Once a group has been tagged as not-real Americans, then Real Americans can -- with a little encouragement -- do to them what as would like.

I think it's an act of profound optimism to envision the end of this present period of American history without significant civil violence.


by Davis X Machina on Thu Mar 30, 2006 at 03:10:12 PM EST

Re: Stop Talking About Red and Blue (none / 0)

I live in a suppossedly red county in a suppossedly red district in a suppossedly blue state in a suppossedly red country.

All of that is mis-leading nonsense that doesn't describe the situation at all.

Especially since we are well on our way to electing a Democrat to Congress to replace the the DC bunches incumbent representative to us. And that is before the latest news out of Albany...

John Sweeney out? Sandy Treadwell in?

Are Sweeney's ethics and/or health problems enough to force him out of a re-election bid in NY-20?


The 10,000 Things
by Andrew C White on Thu Mar 30, 2006 at 05:01:18 PM EST

Re: Stop Talking About Red and Blue (none / 0)

This is a good essay, Scott. Being out here in the "red state" of Ohio, it's clear that nothing is as clear as this. Judged strictly on 2004's presidential politics, Ohio would have to be deemed "neither," regardless of whether you think the election was stolen or not. Bush won by 119, 000 votes out of, I think it was 3.3 million. Tens of thousands -- probably anywhere from 100,000-300,000, although we can never know -- who tried to vote were disenfranchised upfront by long lines, switched polling places, booted registrations and the like. Is Ohio "red"  then? No, of course not. It's split down the middle, and within both sides, there is a range of opinions, beliefs and attitudes.

I too am sick of this either/or construct, and it never plays out the way those setting it up would wish it to: for instance, so-called "blue states" always come out better on "moral" behavior.

It IS simply a way of dividing and controlling people.


by anastasia on Thu Mar 30, 2006 at 05:11:12 PM EST

Re: Stop Talking About Red and Blue (3.00 / 1)

Who dis "we" be. I don't demonise folks in the RedStates although Bill O'Lielly ain't my favorite guy.

Seriously, you are deeply mistaken if you think that we an simply go back to "getting along" and stop thinking "Red" and "Blue". This factionalization of America is deliberate. It was and is a very effective tool for Rove the Wonder Dog and all his fellow ReThug assassins. They have used this paradigm to seize political power in this country they are not gonna give it up.

Pull you head out. These people are dangerous and if they get the chance they will put you and the rest of us in the blogosphere in the internment camps Halliburton is building here in the U.S.

The fascists, and that is what they are, in the Republican Party are pushing this nation to the point where there will only be one option for those Americans who would be free: the John Brown solution

The answer is not to try to get along with these people it's to:

"Drive the Republican Party into the Sea."


by Pericles on Thu Mar 30, 2006 at 05:34:29 PM EST

Re: Stop Talking About Red and Blue (3.00 / 1)

Whoa... who said anything about surrendering to Republicans and "getting along?" All I'm saying is that the idea that the ideas of red and blue Americans living in neatly clustered chunks of the map is stupid. For example, the red Americans of Montana seem to love their state's Democratic Party. And personally speaking, I live in a red town in a red county in a red congressional district in a blue state. So what does that say about how all of the people around me think? Nothing. Are they somehow morally superior to the people who live twenty minutes to the east? Of course not.

There's no mistaking that there is an agenda of anger and division driving the Republican party. And false constructs of "good" red Americans and "bad" blue Americans only serves to feed that.


by Scott Shields on Thu Mar 30, 2006 at 06:55:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stop Talking About Red and Blue (none / 0)

But what about true constructs of good blue Americans and bad red Americans?


by rhealdeal on Fri Mar 31, 2006 at 12:12:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stop Talking About Red and Blue (none / 0)

Outstanding post Scott.  This red, blue thing is getting so tiresome.  There are only about 10 states that are wildly in one direction or the other, one of which is my least favorite state in the Union, Wyoming.  (Where's Cheney from?)  Nothing against Wyoming, seriously, I'm sure it's a beautiful place with wonderful people.  But Wyoming sticks in my craw like no other place because it is so astoundingly small.  Just 500,000 people live there.  Yet they get 3 Electoral votes and 2 US Senators.  I don't know about the rest of you, but this system doesn't work anymore.  It may have worked in the late 18th century but it's not working now.

So let's take Wyoming again - please.  You know how you sometimes see an Electoral Map drawn to scale right.  Then those mountain states get squeezed down to size, and Calif, Texas and heavy populated Northeastern states get much larger.  Even those maps don't tell the story.  I would like to see an Electoral Map drawn by population not Electoral Votes.  That would squeeze our friend Wyoming down to the size of a .  (that was a period)  The population of Wyoming is (I'm ballparking) 500,000.  The population of California is 36,000,000.  Wyoming has 3 Electoral Votes. 500,000/3 = 166,667 people per Electoral Vote.  California has 55 Electoral Votes.  36,000,000/55 = 654,545 people per Electoral vote.  Are you getting the picture?  One more step.  654,545/166,667 = 3.93.  There you have it.  A Wyoming resident's Presidential vote is worth roughly 4 times more than a Californian's vote.  Horrible isn't it?  Now I know I didn't subtract non-voters but the numbers wouldn't change significantly in either direction if we did.  The fact of the matter is the minority has tooooooo much of an advantage in this country.  Jefferson, Madison, Franklin and the boys wrote a beautiful document, but it needs serious tweaking.  My solution would be to increase the House of Representatives by two times.  Let's say we had a Rep for every 250,000 residents.  Wyoming would have two reps and two senators and an increase of one Electoral vote.  California would increase from 53 reps to 144 reps and now have 146 Electoral Votes.  See now -California and Wyoming are on more equal footing in the Electoral College.  But even at 4-146 rather than 3-55 Wyoming would still be pulling twice as much weight, based on its population, as California in the Electoral College.  Remember California is 72 times bigger than Wyoming.  (500,000/36,000,000)

Of course, I would prefer the elimination of the Electoral College altogether, but I can't see an Amendment to the Constitution passing because the smaller states would never willingly give up their strength.  Direct popular vote would also really increase turnout because the Wyoming and Utah Democrats might bother to vote as would the Rhode Island and New York Republicans who previously stayed home for Presidential Elections because they already know who is going to win their respective states.

But what do you all think of the huge increase in the House of Representatives.  Wouldn't it bring the people closer to their reps?  Also, wouldn't it be better to choose our own reps instead of them picking us now.  Gerrymandering would be a lot tougher for Tom DeLay and his cohort.  

Thanks for reading. Sorry for the poor writing.  Just a stream of consciousness spewing out.  The red/blue thing would all but disappear if we did something, anything, to change or eliminate the Electoral College.  


by fred on Thu Mar 30, 2006 at 06:14:34 PM EST

amendment not needed to end the EC (none / 0)

check out the Amar Plan.


by jethropalerobber on Fri Mar 31, 2006 at 05:03:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

every one of those media pundits (none / 0)

who yak on about blue and red live in the bluest cities in the bluest states in the nation. they are affluent, powerful, priviledged urban elites in every sense of the label, and use rural and small town america instrumentally as a club to beat democrats and their fellow urbanites with, but not a one loves the "heartland" enough to go live and work there.

bloggers, OTOH, are mostly located in the rest of the country that is not NYC and DC (no offense to non-pundit new yorkers and DCers). and yet we are constantly being derided by DC pols and media pundits for being out of touch with ourselves.

it's all a load of bullshit.


by wu ming on Fri Mar 31, 2006 at 12:57:14 AM EST

Re: Stop Talking About Red and Blue (none / 0)

The Blue/Red divide is the lazy man's way of attempting to parse a dynamic he doesn't understand. It allows the pundit to pigeonhole a diverse people into simple categories in order to make broad, grand pronouncements, without getting to the nitty gritty of the effect specific issues and events have on the lives of different people. Unfortunately, in order to be accurate hairs must be split. That requires a degree of conceptual analysis that most of the punditocracy is not only incapable of recognizing or understanding, but would not serve its interest if attempted. After all, the conservative mindset of the mainstream media -- and this applies even to many of those with liberal ideology -- requires absolutes, rather than degrees. If it can't be dissected in simplistic, one-size-fits-all terms -- hopefully, with flip insouciance -- then it is presumed to be beyond the capability of the audience to understand. Red/Blue is no more or less part of the process of the dumbing-down of America, which serves the interests of the power elite since it makes manipulation of people easier.


by MoCrash on Fri Mar 31, 2006 at 07:40:47 AM EST

Re: Stop Talking About Red and Blue (none / 0)

I am tired of being told by red-state America (or those claiming to be its representatives) that I should be ashamed of living in a blue-state, or that I am somehow less of an American for doing so.  What exactly do the red-state Americans think would happen to this country if New York and California ceased do exist?  Why the majority of vacations consist of red-state Americans going to blue states?  What is it about driving a tractor and going to Church five days a week that is more integral to America than working in Silicon Valley or Wall Street?  How far does red-state America think farming and Bibles go to running the most power and sophisticated country in the history of Man?

I am not ashamed.


by RenneP on Fri Mar 31, 2006 at 08:21:49 AM EST

Re: "Breaking Blue" (none / 0)

Put your money where your mouth is.  Get rid of the "breaking blue" title at the top of the page.

Come up with another name for breaking news items that doesn't use the false dichotomy.

I completely agree with your post... and I, too, am sick and tired of the media assuming that people in the "red" states are somehow more American than I, who lives in urban, "blue" Maryland.  


by wintersnowman on Fri Mar 31, 2006 at 08:50:01 AM EST

Re: Stop Talking About Red and Blue (none / 0)

Reading Anderson's original piece, it looked like he started out trying to be careful not to make Red/Blue State simplifications, but by the end he was wallowing in it.  Anderson and his intellectually dishonest ilk are more capricious than they are anything else.  It seems as though their sole purpose in life is to fight against those who believe in the promise of America.  Anderson doesn't even believe what he's saying, and if he does, it's a coincidence.  He's saying it because it's politically expedient.  We are at war with these people and the battleground is the storyline.  So long as we let them lead the direction of the story by framing the discussion, we lose.  Period.  I can't even believe we're talking about "all of the poor conservatives in the Republican Party who are being ignored by the liberal media in favor of a few stereotypes."  No f***ing way am I going to accept that.  


by permit on Fri Mar 31, 2006 at 09:07:54 AM EST

word (none / 0)


by jethropalerobber on Fri Mar 31, 2006 at 04:55:25 PM EST


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