MyDD :: Cegelis's and Hackett's races ARE NOT equivalent

Cegelis's and Hackett's races ARE NOT equivalent

by puma, Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 07:47:17 PM EST

When I read Matt Stoller's post on Cegelis and Hackett, I have got to admit that I was a little shocked. Not only did the author call Paul Hackett a coward but he tried to draw an analogy to the two races. I not only disagree with calling Hackett, a marine who risked his life for this country a coward but I also disagree with the Cegelis/Hackett equivalency.

(Please don't delete my diary similar because it dissents from mydd's beliefs. I hope that you keep it here so we all can have a lively debate.

First of all, just because a candidate leaves a race doesn't mean he or she is a coward. Countless candidates have left races for various reasons. Recently, Tim Dunn, an Iraq War veteran left his Congressional race for financial reasons (similar to Hackett's). Is he too a coward? Of course not.

I am not sure that that is the wisest use of language to use for our fighting men and women. (I hated when Mean Jean called Murtha a coward too). Instead one could argue that Hackett is a "quitter" since he did quit the race. I personally believe that he was driven out and I will explain why below.

Now for the myth of the Cegelis/Hackett analogy:

The similarities are that both were supported by the grassroots and netroots but that is where the similarities end.

In terms of Cegelis/Duckworth race, the DCCC simply recruited the candidate they wanted (Duckworth) and gave her money and support. To my knowledge, the DCCC did not try to dry up Cegelis's money by calling her financial supporters to stop donating. There wasn't a whisper campaign claiming that she was a war criminal and they had pictures.

Also, to my knowledge Rahm Emmanuel and Nancy Pelosi did not personally call her and beg her to get out of the race. The DCCC in this race just supported the candidate they wanted (Duckworth) and placed Cegelis aside.

Hackett's situation was much different. The DSCC didn't just simply support Brown or give him money, they sabotaged Hackett. There was really a TREMENDOUS PUSH to get Hackett out that simply wasn't there against Cegelis. Both Emmanuel's and Pelosi's equivalents in the Senate (Schumer and Reid) personally called Hackett several times and told him to get out of the race for the good of the party. (If the Senate Minority leader doesn't want you, I suspect it would be hard to stay in). Also many other Senators and Congressmen personally called Hackett to get out of the race too.

Plus all the well documented backroom bullshit machinations that Hackett endured that were probably hundred times worse than Cegelis was privy to helped to drive him out of this race. I suspect that if Hackett had stayed in, the backroom crap would have started to double.

I personally suspect, that Hackett who is a political novice who just came back from Iraq and never had time to just relax with his family, instead was continuously running for office (first the House then the Senate) probably said that this is some bullshit. This is putting my staff and family through hell. If my own party is telling me to get the hell out and drying up my money, it ain't worth it.

I personally have no problem if Hackett tells the truth about what went on about the backroom machinations and why he left the race. If it can prevent further crap from happening to another Democratic candidate, then that is a good thing.

Thus I see the differences between the two candidates: One was overlooked and the other was shoved out.

Also, I suspect that the DCCC didn't care so much that there was a primary because they knew they could out spend Cegelis. The DSCC, on the other hand, DID NOT WANT a primary so they did what they needed to do to get Hackett the hell out.

Tags: Cegelis, Hackett (all tags)

Permalink :: 83 Comments :: Post a Comment

Re: Cegelis's and Hackett's races ARE NOT equivale (3.00 / 2)

The reason they felt they had to undermine Hackett was that Schumer and Reid had invited him IN to the race in the first place.

In Cegelis's case there were no donors to call: Rahm had cut off the oxygen flow early on in 2005 when he let everyone know he was looking for another candidate. His original idea was a self-funding millionaire like Peter O'Malley. Only AFTER O'Malley turned Rahm down (because of the grassroots support for Cegelis) did Rahm's wandering eye turn to Durbin's candidate.

At least Hackett was initially invited to the ball. Cegelis was beneath contempt as far as the DC insiders were concerned. No need to contact her for any reason. Their plan from the start was to bypass her with their own candidate.

P.S. I write this as someone who pitched in on BOTH candidates' campaigns. (I wore my Hackett T-Shirt to my DFA group's Steering Committee meeting last night in honor of the "other" candidate who got screwed by the DC insiders.)

"We are building a political movement - not one that wields the power of lobbyists and corporate interests, but the power of millions... who seek change." -Dean

by Jim in Chicago on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 08:22:23 PM EST

Re: Cegelis's and Hackett's races ARE NOT equivale (none / 0)

Jim in Chicago,

You know about Cegelis's campaign. Was she royally screwed like Hackett was?

by puma on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 08:26:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

No, she was screwed differently (none / 0)

but screwed all the same!

"We are building a political movement - not one that wields the power of lobbyists and corporate interests, but the power of millions... who seek change." -Dean

by Jim in Chicago on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 08:31:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Details on Rahm's search for another candidate (none / 0)

William Rivers Pitt's recent essay on the race has the gory details:

Emmanuel spent eleven months searching for an alternative to Cegelis. He started with an Illinois state senator, who turned Emmanuel down for personal reasons. He next approached Peter O'Malley, a lawyer who works with the Illinois Mediation Service. O'Malley got into the race, but finding his campaign unable to raise any money to challenge Cegelis, dropped out in the summer. Emmanuel next approached Brian McPartlin, Chief of Administration of the Illinois State Toll Highway Authority, who did not want to leave his job and turned the offer down. A local businesswoman was approached after McPartlin refused the job, but the campaign never materialized. It appeared, for a time, that Christine Cegelis was going to weather this inter-party storm and stand as the candidate.

After a long and fruitless search, Emmanuel finally located a candidate willing to challenge Cegelis. Tammy Duckworth was an Army Major and an Iraq War veteran who had lost both legs when her helicopter was attacked. Duckworth was not a resident of the district, and has a voting record that is only two years old. Emmanuel and the DCCC, however, believed her status as a veteran would be a boon to fundraising efforts, and would be attractive to moderates and conservatives who swoon over anyone who has worn a uniform. The running of Iraq veterans is a DCCC plan being enacted in a variety of other districts across the country.

The whole article is worth reading:

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/032406 Z.shtml

"We are building a political movement - not one that wields the power of lobbyists and corporate interests, but the power of millions... who seek change." -Dean

by Jim in Chicago on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 07:41:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Nope (3.00 / 2)

In terms of Cegelis/Duckworth race, the DCCC simply recruited the candidate they wanted (Duckworth) and gave her money and support. To my knowledge, the DCCC did not try to dry up Cegelis's money by calling her financial supporters to stop donating. There wasn't a whisper campaign claiming that she was a war criminal and they had pictures.

No war criminal pictures, just the constant drone that Cegelis was a weak candidate the DCCC was going to replace. This started last May at least. They did everything they could to dry up her fundraising.

Also, to my knowlege Rahm Emmanuel and Nancy Pelosi did not personally call her and beg her to get out of the race. The DCCC in this race just supported the candidate they wanted (Duckworth) and placed Cegelis aside.

Maybe not Emmanuel, not sure about Pelosi, but every other major (and minor) Dem did call her and ask her to drop out. She was even offered to have her debt paid off. There was considerable pressure on her to drop out. Considerable.

Witty comment goes here...

by michael in chicago on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 08:49:50 PM EST

correcting myself (3.00 / 1)

It was hinted at that her debt migh be paid off. My last statement was too strong.

Witty comment goes here...

by michael in chicago on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 08:55:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: correcting myself (none / 0)

That is a very interesting fact. Get out now, we will pay your debt. Force us to fight in a primary, and force us to spend to win that primary, you will have to shoulder your debt. Either way, the DCCC wins. Interesting. Bribery and fraud.

by illinois062006 on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 10:50:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nope (2.50 / 2)

"Considerable" is an understatement. Very few candidates get personal calls from senators.

The past few months also shows the real character of the 2 IL senators. They're such an embarrassment to the state & the country.

They've both lost my future votes. I'll help anyone that challenges them in the Primaries.

by Philosophe Forum on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 04:03:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nope (none / 0)

Durbin is up again in 2008

by Feh on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 04:45:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Primary Durbin? (3.00 / 1)

You should invest all your money in the lottery. You'll have a better chance of winning.

by OfficeOfLife on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 08:09:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Primary Durbin? (none / 0)

"Winning" isn't the point. The number of votes the challenger receives & the undervote are just as telling. Durbin received 60% of the 2002 votes. It'll be really noticeable if he only squeaks by with only a few 100 votes for a plurality.

Yes, Duckworth won a plurality. For all the money invested in the campaign, it was a joke of a win. Durbin & Emanuel don't have the powerful influence over the voters they thought they had.

by Philosophe Forum on Sun Mar 26, 2006 at 01:38:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Cegelis's and Hackett's races ARE NOT equivale (2.50 / 2)

Hackett chose not to face the voters because he was afraid he'd lose. He seems to be personally very brave, but in this instance what he did was driven by fear.

Cegelis chose to face the voters and risk losing in the face of a lot more headwinds than Hackett had. That to me is political courage.

by Matt Stoller on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 09:48:15 PM EST

Re: Cegelis's and Hackett's races ARE NOT equivale (none / 0)

yes but using the word coward to describe a fighting dem was probably a poor idea?

by aiko on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 11:18:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Cegelis's and Hackett's races ARE NOT equivale (none / 0)

Your assumption that there's only one kind of courage is curious. For example, I wonder how many men would willingly face childbirth, if it were biologically possible. (I know I'd be running to have myself fixed, personally.)

Courage is taking action in spite of your fears. Successfully doing that in one context doesn't mean you won't fail to do so in others.

My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right. Sen Carl Schurz

by Bill Rehm on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 08:55:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Cegelis's and Hackett's races ARE NOT equivale (none / 0)

What he did, in this instance was cowardly, (he's the first Marine I've ever met who ran from a fight--electoral or otherwise--)....as was the fact he said he would refuse to support the winner. That's not how to be a Democrat.

just a red meat eatin' Democratic Dawg frontpaging at The Democratic Daily...

by BigDog on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 03:39:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Cegelis's and Hackett's races ARE NOT equivale (none / 0)

What the hell are you talking about?

by puma on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 03:53:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hackett didn't care about winning (3.00 / 1)

Sorry dude, but you missed the boat on this. Hackett didn't care about winning, that is why he ran in such a red district in the first place. Hackett wanted to change politics and he has done more by calling out the assholes in DC than he could have done as a newbie senator.

The assumptions that Hackett was like politicians and that his goal was to win is a huge mistake which has been at the heart of all of the Brown campaign fuckups from day one.

Hackett doesn't think like people in DC.

by blogswarm on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 11:35:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hackett didn't care about winning (none / 0)

Oh come on. Hackett was recruited by those Dems in DC, believing he could win in a red state because their warchest would be backing him up.

When they yanked the rug out from under him, he quit. He could have kept fighting.

My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right. Sen Carl Schurz

by Bill Rehm on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 08:57:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hackett didn't care about winning (3.00 / 1)

he assumptions that Hackett was like politicians and that his goal was to win is a huge mistake which has been at the heart of all of the Brown campaign fuckups from day one.

I seriously doubt this is the case, but instead is a projection of your ambitions onto Hackett. But if this were to be true then the DSCC was right to yank their support and put their money on Brown. The goal of the DSCC is to elect Democrats to the senate by winning elections and not to further Bob Brigham's goals to "change politics."

If you want an organization to do this then form your own damn PAC.

by Jay on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 09:23:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hackett didn't care about winning (1.50 / 2)

DLC, Republican-lite, more of the same, centrist bilge, loser. Jay, supports Duckworth, out of touch. Out of touch with Illinois 06 values, and out of touch with Ohio values.

by illinois062006 on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 09:33:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hackett didn't care about winning (none / 0)

Ken, you really should go back to your therapist and get your medication adjusted. The disappointment of the past week appears to be more than your current dosage can handle.

by Jay on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 01:57:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hackett didn't care about winning (none / 0)

Do I know you?

by illinois062006 on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 04:24:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hackett didn't care about winning (none / 0)

Don't be impertinent.

by Jay on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 06:17:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Cegelis's and Hackett's races ARE NOT equivale (none / 0)

In my opinion, anyone can be a coward, including a Fighting Dem; no one is above criticism. But I will say that Hackett is not necessarily a coward. In fact, I am glad he exposed the politics resulting in his withdrawal from the primary competition. Someone had to do it, and he did. He said; he meant it; he stands by it. To me that bespeaks courage.

But I believe Matt Stoller has the right to refer to Hackett as a coward if that is what Stoller believes. Anyone, I repeat, can be a coward.

by illinois062006 on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 11:37:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Cegelis's and Hackett's races ARE NOT equivale (none / 0)

Of course he has the right, but that is NOT what Hackett was. A coward is some one is afraid. Hackett is and was not afraid. Fear wasn't the reason he stepped down at all.

by puma on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 10:28:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Cegelis's and Hackett's races ARE NOT equivale (none / 0)

The fact that Tim Dunn dropped out, do you consider him a coward too?

by puma on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 10:30:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Cegelis's and Hackett's races ARE NOT equivale (none / 0)

I would not make that argument. As I stated above, I do not believe Hackett is a "coward." Nor do I believe Dunn is a "coward." In fact, I laud Dunn for entering the race in NC-08. That, I believe, took courage. But I do not believe Dunn is automatically courageous as a result of his service. I believe he is courageous, as he is willing to risk time and money on a political race.

by illinois062006 on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 10:33:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Cegelis's and Hackett's races ARE NOT equivale (none / 0)

No. Tim Dunn dropped out because he couldn't compete bot becuase he got some 'pressure' from above.

Dunn had a legit reason for pulling the plug.

Hackett couldn't take the heat of the pressure and the campaign. He could just as easily told everyone to stuff it and kept going...it probably would have doubled his donations from the Net!

But he dropped, and what's worse, whined about it with three different reasons in 4 days. Sorry. Bad form. Never knew a Marine to dodge a fight before.

just a red meat eatin' Democratic Dawg frontpaging at The Democratic Daily...

by BigDog on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 03:43:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Cegelis's and Hackett's races ARE NOT equivale (none / 0)

You just don't get it.

by puma on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 03:54:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Cegelis's and Hackett's races ARE NOT equivale (none / 0)

I don't think he was afraid he would lose at all. If he was afraid of losing then he would NEVER had entered the race for the House in a Republican district or for Senate as a complete novice.

I think he stepped down because he was tired of all the bullshit.

Two different things.

by puma on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 10:32:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Cegelis's and Hackett's races ARE NOT equivale (none / 0)

As a result, Matt Stoller's description of Hackett is NOT correct. Hackett ain't no coward. He was tired of all the bullshit that was 100x worse than Cegelis experienced.

by puma on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 10:41:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Cegelis's and Hackett's races ARE NOT equivale (1.00 / 1)

I disagree. Cegelis experienced much pain. And those scars are etched indelibly in my mind. This is a problem, I believe, for I voted Green in 2000. I guess the Democratic Party does not want my support.

by illinois062006 on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 10:46:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Cegelis's and Hackett's races ARE NOT equivale (none / 0)

Props to Cegelis.

I am sure she experienced a lot of pain knowing that her party wanted someone else for the district.

I hope she will run for something in the future.

She would make an excellent Congresswoman.

by puma on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 11:00:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Cegelis's and Hackett's races ARE NOT equivale (none / 0)

By the way, I volunteered for Hackett last August. I respect him immensely.

by illinois062006 on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 10:47:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Cegelis's and Hackett's races ARE NOT equivale (none / 0)

What is the point of running when you can't win is my question?

Running the Davis, Nelson Klein team in Florida.

by Liberal on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 01:16:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Cegelis's and Hackett's races ARE NOT equivale (none / 0)

Hackett WANTED to win. I don't know what Bob is talking about that he didn't want to win. Of course Hackett wanted to win. He is a competitive guy.

As I stated before, I think Hackett saw how the "sausage" was made and said I ain't eating this "sausage".

by puma on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 01:21:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Cegelis's and Hackett's races ARE NOT equivale (3.00 / 1)

I don't know for sure what motivates Hackett, but I think that many of the problems in Ohio are the result of people in DC assuming that Hackett thinks like they do.

It didn't start out this way. When Reid wanted to get Hackett in the race, Reid was smart enough to play to Hackett's patriotism by pitching him along the lines that his country needed him. Hackett understood Iraq would turn out the way it has, yet he re-uped for the war. Reid got this, but Sherrod Brown didn't watch the game tapes.

For some unknown reason, Brown assumed that Hackett would get out of the race once Brown got in. Brown waited for Hackett to get out, postponing his announcement from October until after the November election until by the end of November and finally officially announcing in early December. We have since learned that during the same time Brown kept pushing his announcement back he was trying to swift boat Hackett out of the race -- based on the assumption that he could Swift Boat Hackett worse than the GOP did and Hackett wouldn't retaliate.

When Hackett pulled out, Brown assumed that Hackett would support him like a typical politician. Instead, Hackett has been talking about the "sausage" and has had more earned media since he pulled out than Brown has had.

I think Hackett wanted to win, but there are some things he values more. He isn't a typical politician, he has never acted like one and yet some people in DC assume anyone running for office thinks like they do.

by blogswarm on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 01:51:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Cegelis's and Hackett's races ARE NOT equivale (none / 0)

One more point on the inside the beltway thinking that has screwed up this race. Ted Strickland is a psychologist, who sat in Hackett's living room and watched Hackett and John Glenn and Max Cleland trade war stories. Of all people, he understands what motivates people, that is why he was successful in convincing Brown to run after all. But he should have been the last one to assume that Hackett would defer to Brown and the very last one to think that attacking Hackett for his service (his primary motivator) would result in a situation where Brown would be positioned to beat DeWine. Maybe he didn't care, maybe Strickland's primary motivator was simply to get Brown running to boost northeastern turnout. But he should have seen that there was no exit strategy for Brown. The whole thing reminds me of Iraq, it is one thing to have the might to conquer, but where is the success once the civil war breaks out? I just don't understand why some people in DC think they way they do.

by blogswarm on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 02:19:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

In terms of Strickland (none / 0)

Hackett likes Ted Strickland and is a huge supporter. He recently said that he just loves the guy.

I don't think that Strickland was thinking about the repercusions of convincing Brown to enter the Senate race. My gut feeling is that Brown all along WANTED to enter the Senate race but was too afraid to get out of his comfort zone of his Congressional seat. (All Sherrod's bullshit explanations don't cut it). So Strickland who is his friend convinced him not to be so afraid, it was now or never.

I personally don't care if Brown entered the Senate race. What is more upsetting is all the bullshit that he and the Dem establishment did to get Hackett out. They should of just let the primary take place.

by puma on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 02:29:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: In terms of Strickland (none / 0)

I like Strickland too and I really like his new ads. I just think it is important to talk about the how people in DC think if we want to understand how to make things better.

by blogswarm on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 03:23:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Good assessment!! (none / 0)

I agree that there are things that Hackett values more than winning. He values honesty and integrity which is often times lacking in politics.

Honesty: I think that Hackett was shocked at Sherrod's flip flopping into getting into the Senate race and his not honest explanation.

Integrity: Since Hacket had promised the 2006 Oh-02 Dem primary candidates that he would NOT re-enter that race if he left the Senate race, he did not want to go back on his word. Lesser people would have said, screw them, I will enter anyway. That isn't what Hackett is all about.

by puma on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 02:19:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Cegelis's and Hackett's races ARE NOT equivale (3.00 / 2)

Personally I can't imagine being just back from Iraq and then getting a call from the Senate Minority Leader asking you if it's true that there are pictures of you committing war crimes in Iraq. The same man who begged you to run only a few months before. I can't imagine learning that it's one of the hottest rumors both in the Democratic circles of the beltway at within the Ohio Democratic Party. I can't imagine hearing from multiple Ohio Democratic Party chairs that the person spreading the rumors works for your Democratic Primary opponent and has a reputation as a dirty trickster (at the time a fierce battle was going on over county endorsements). I can't imagine that when you tell the DSCC about this and they say they will do something and then so much time goes buy and nothing happens and then you learn that Democratic members of Congress are calling your fundraisers and asking them not to help you raise money. And I can't imagine hearing the man who initially begged you to run is now actively trying to shut off your cash and asking you to step down.

I can't imagine what it's like to know that the only way to get your opponent to do the right thing and fire the staffer that's is calling you a war criminal is to finally say ENOUGH and publicly call them out.

How can we clear up the culture of corruption when we are so ethically challenged?'

We raised $250,000 for Hackett attacking the Schmidt campaign for doing something that seems trivial now compared to the crap spread around by Democrats.

Call Hackett a coward all you want. You're the one doing so from the safety of your keyboard. Say it to his face and then maybe I know that you aren't a coward.

Editor
Ohio 2nd Blog

by ignatzmouse on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 02:29:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hi Editor!!! (none / 0)

This is the Doctor. Hey I made it!! (You know what I am talking about).

by puma on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 02:43:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hi Editor!!! (none / 0)

Everytime I get out, they pull me back in.

Editor
Ohio 2nd Blog

by ignatzmouse on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 03:02:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hi Editor!!! (3.00 / 1)

My father is no different than any powerful man, any man with power, like a president or senator.

by blogswarm on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 03:12:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hi Editor!!! (none / 0)

"You can act like a man! [slap] What's the matter with you?"

Editor
Ohio 2nd Blog

by ignatzmouse on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 03:22:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hi Editor!!! (none / 0)

The kid's clean Captain, he's a war hero!

by blogswarm on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 03:26:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hi Editor!!! (none / 0)

Tattaglia's a pimp.

Editor
Ohio 2nd Blog

by ignatzmouse on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 03:42:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hi Editor!!! (none / 0)

Come on. Don't be afraid, Carlo. Come on, you think I'd make my sister a widow? I'm Godfather to your son, Carlo...You're out of the Family business, that's your punishment. You're finished. I'm putting you on a plane to Vegas...I want you to stay there, understand? Only don't tell me you're innocent. Because it insults my intelligence and makes me very angry. Now, who approached you? Tattaglia or Barzini?

by blogswarm on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 03:47:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hi Editor!!! (none / 0)

Leave the gun. Take the cannoli.

Editor
Ohio 2nd Blog

by ignatzmouse on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 03:56:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hi Editor!!! (none / 0)

I refused to be a fool dancing on a string held by all those - big shots. I don't apologize; that's my life. But I thought that...when it was your time that - that you would be the one to hold the strings.

by blogswarm on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 04:00:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hi Editor!!! (none / 0)

It's a Sicilian message. It means Luca Brasi sleeps with the fishes.

The Internet makes this too easy.

Editor
Ohio 2nd Blog

by ignatzmouse on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 04:57:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Buono, il brutto, il cattivo, Il (none / 0)

I remember talking with Hackett after Brown decided he would run after saying he wouldn't. Hackett reminded me of the following from his favorite movie:

[Tuco is in a bubble bath. The One Armed Man enters the room]
One Armed Man: I've been looking for you for 8 months. Whenever I should have had a gun in my right hand, I thought of you. Now I find you in exactly the position that suits me. I had lots of time to learn to shoot with my left.
[Tuco kills him with the gun he has hidden in the foam]
Tuco: When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk.

by blogswarm on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 05:03:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Buono, il brutto, il cattivo, Il (none / 0)

God is not on our side because he hates idiots also.

Editor
Ohio 2nd Blog

by ignatzmouse on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 05:25:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Buono, il brutto, il cattivo, Il (none / 0)

There are two kinds of people in the world, my friend: Those with a rope around the neck, and the people who have the job of doing the cutting.

by blogswarm on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 05:27:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

How Brown fucked up (none / 0)

But if you miss you had better miss very well. Whoever double-crosses me and leaves me alive, he understands nothing about Tuco.

by blogswarm on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 08:56:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How Brown fucked up (none / 0)

I never met a repo man who didn't do speed.

Editor
Ohio 2nd Blog

by ignatzmouse on Mon Mar 27, 2006 at 12:07:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Editor (none / 0)

Way to cut through the "Hackett is a coward" BULLSHIT!!

by puma on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 02:56:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Cegelis's and Hackett's races ARE NOT equivale (none / 0)

No problem.

just a red meat eatin' Democratic Dawg frontpaging at The Democratic Daily...

by BigDog on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 03:44:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Cegelis's and Hackett's races ARE NOT equivale (none / 0)

Let me re-edit: As to his political actions...NO PROBLEM.

His actions in uniform as above reproach and I support him and every other member of the Armed Services.

just a red meat eatin' Democratic Dawg frontpaging at The Democratic Daily...

by BigDog on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 03:48:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Cegelis's and Hackett's races ARE NOT equivale (2.00 / 1)

Do you live in Ohio? If you do, I would love you to say that to Hackett's face. I am sure Editor would blog about. I will bring the popcorn.

by puma on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 04:00:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Cegelis's and Hackett's races ARE NOT equivale (none / 0)

Nope. Not Ohio. But he and his popcorn werehere in California and only 20 miles away at a fundraiser from helping CA-48 during the Special Election last year and he couldn't be bothered. We could really have used the help at a fundraiser in our district too. There wasn't even an election. It was just money raising.

So knowing both that fact, the way he reacted to the Senate race (which was crazy for him to enter to begin with) and some other things, I wouldn't worry about it.

It would be a gentlemenly disagreement. Unless otherwise decided by him, which I sincerely doubt. He was an officer and a gentleman. I doubt he's forgot that. And if you grew up in the Mexican barrio you wouldn't worry either.

People can deeply disagree and still break bread or have a drink together.

It's the essence of politics that's missing today...disagreement without personalizing it.

just a red meat eatin' Democratic Dawg frontpaging at The Democratic Daily...

by BigDog on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 08:59:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Cegelis's and Hackett's races ARE NOT equivale (none / 0)

I think Editor's point was that if an author is going to call someone like Hackett a coward in writing than he should have the guts to be able to say it to his face.

I would love to see Matt Stoller call Hackett a coward to his face. I think it would be pure theater. I would definitely bring the popcorn.

I personally feel that Hackett has a lot of political courage to even have attempted something like the Senate race (which is just below President in difficulty) after Reid and Schumer begged him to when he had just ended a House race after having literally just gotten off the plane from a hellish stent in Iraq, and had NO political experience.

I personally think that takes a lot of balls to even entertain the thought.

by puma on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 10:10:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Oh God this is SOOO tired (3.00 / 1)

I'm glad there's some good TV on.

Oh damn...there's not.

by Teaser on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 02:23:56 PM EST

Re: Oh God this is SOOO tired (none / 0)

Then why are you reading this?

by puma on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 02:31:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh God this is SOOO tired (none / 0)

Try the history channel, Mail Call was just talking about claymores and shredding those who attack a base position and how it forced the bad guys to change their strategies.

by blogswarm on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 02:43:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh God this is SOOO tired (none / 0)

or hang out here as people click click away in a discussion about politics

by blogswarm on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 02:49:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama Made the Call (3.00 / 1)

To my knowledge, the DCCC did not try to dry up Cegelis's money by calling her financial supporters to stop donating. There wasn't a whisper campaign claiming that she was a war criminal and they had pictures.

FYI -- Yes, they did. Anyone & any PAC that wanted to contribute large sums of money were told to hold off. Since high-priced donors demand poll numbers first, the campaign's PR contractors used results from a poll done in Aug/Sep 2005 hoping no one would read the fine print: small sample size and weighting. They were the results of really BAD data & wasn't supposed to be trusted.

No one paid attention to a Daily Herald article dated November 27, 2005, in which she talked about her own little mantra while at Walter Reed:

One dead Iraqi.

Two dead Iraqis.

Three dead Iraqis.

"I admit, there was anger there," she says now. "I wanted vengeance."

FYI -- As the junior IL senator, it was Obama's job to call Cegelis. He made the call just before the last day to withdraw from the ballot on 12/28/2005. Besides, Durbin supported Cegelis in 2004. It wouldn't have looked good for him to make the call.

Everything they did was to get Cegelis to withdraw. She didn't. Duckworth's polling numbers were so bad that they even had the Obama endorsement ads run early. To compensate, they used free MSM (i.e., Nightline) to highlight Duckworth's "compelling" story. It proves once again "if it bleeds, it leads." The story of a single mother successful in an IT career & raising 2 sons doesn't play as well in the US. She's a lot better role model for young girls & a thousand times better leader, but that doesn't matter. The choice for the voters was either a rotorwing jockey (not ground infantry) flying above combat or a single mother fighting in the REAL world for the survival of herself & 2 children in life's everyday combat.

They wanted ANYONE besides Cegelis. Duckworth was the FIFTH person they asked to run in the Primary. Win or lose in Nov., she's a poster child for fundraising. Cegelis would have none of it. That's the bottom line.

by Philosophe Forum on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 04:33:32 PM EST

Re: Obama Made the Call (none / 0)

How do you know this? Did Cegelis tell you directly? For shame that Obama did that. I really did like Obama.

Did Rahm Emmanuel and Nancy Pelosi call Cegelis directly too like the Senate equivalents Schumer and Reid did Hackett?

by puma on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 04:45:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Made the Call (none / 0)

I also had it from a VERY reliable source that Obama called Christine around the time mentioned to inform her that he was going to endorse Duckworth. I did not know that he also asked Christine to drop out, but that would explain her reaction to Obama, which I am told was not very nice.

"We are building a political movement - not one that wields the power of lobbyists and corporate interests, but the power of millions... who seek change." -Dean

by Jim in Chicago on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 07:44:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Made the Call (none / 0)

Obama made the call on my birthday. This is going to be hard to forget...

by blogswarm on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 04:48:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Made the Call (none / 0)

Why would Obama get involved at all with this primary? He is in the Senate not the House.

by puma on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 04:49:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Made the Call (none / 0)

I think that it is really weird that Obama would get involved directly and not Rahm Emmanuel.

Rahm Emmanuel personally called Hackett to get out of the Senate race. He even blabbed to the AP saying that he is PUBLICALLY telling Hackett to step down. That AP article was published the day before Hackette stepped down.

Why would Rahm Emmanuel NOT call Cegelis directly but instead call Hackett directly. That doesn't make any sense.

by puma on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 04:53:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

read above (none / 0)

As the junior IL senator, it was Obama's job to call Cegelis. He made the call just before the last day to withdraw from the ballot on 12/28/2005. Besides, Durbin supported Cegelis in 2004. It wouldn't have looked good for him to make the call.

by blogswarm on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 04:58:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: read above (none / 0)

Got it. But why not Rahm Emmanuel himself. If Emmanuel was able to call Hackett personally why not Cegelis too?

by puma on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 05:13:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: read above (none / 0)

Emanuel knew Hackett would go back on his word and run for OH-02 when he promised he wouldn't. Everyone knew that. Emanuel just used OH-02 as an excuse for DC to do a full court press on Hackett, so it was coming from both the house and senate sides.

by blogswarm on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 05:14:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: read above (none / 0)

"If Emmanuel was able to call Hackett personally why not Cegelis too?"

Because by then it was clear that Christine would tell Mr. Emmanuel to stick it. And they still thought there was a chance that she would fall for Obama's rockstar charms.

by AustinMayor on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 07:22:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: read above (none / 0)

I am surprised that Rahm Emmanuel went to all that trouble but never directly called Cegelis.

I suspect that Emmanuel didn't really care that there was a primary because he would have called Cegelis personally to get out but he didn't.

Instead he just chose the candidate he wanted and supported her with money.

by puma on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 08:13:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: read above (none / 0)

I think that Emmanuel didn't care whether there was a primary or not because he knew he could just spend more money than Cegelis had.

by puma on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 08:18:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: read above (none / 0)

Emanuel went into the Primary with any candidate he could find with a $1M line of credit. There was no way Cegelis would come up with anything close to that after he put the word out that she was "off-limits" for large contributions.

Her only fundraising resources after that were people living paycheck to paycheck. They averaged under $30/person. A few PAC contributions could never make up the difference.

Adding to the lack of money was all the free MSM time. Emanuel's background & DCCC chair position gives him access to media resources like no one else. That freed up the fundraising money to pay for a contract with the most expensive PR firm in Chicago.

All this for a Primary -- an election that the DCCC typically doesn't get involved in. When a candidate requests their assistance, their official response is "advice only". Candidates aren't allowed to approach them for help with the General unless they already have $300K. The DCCC response is to raise another $150K by the end of the quarter.

The DCCC isn't about democracy. They don't want the people. They want their money, their monied network, or poster children that attract $250K fundraisers.

by Philosophe Forum on Sun Mar 26, 2006 at 01:58:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

What a piss ant little flame war (1.50 / 2)

Both sides are an embarassment to flaming bags of poop.

by Gary Boatwright on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 05:38:23 PM EST

BTW, Hackett is not out of politics. (none / 0)

He is working with IAVA PAC for Fighting Dem candidates and has recently, or is scheduled to, appear with Col. Andrew Horne for IAVA. I suspect this is the doing of General Clark who is spearheading the backing of endorsed IAVA PAC candidates. Tim Dunn was one of them. Time, btw, did not drop our solely because of money. Apparently his own business was in sore need of attention, which impacts of course on his family and their futures.

Alex's note on Hackett
Hackett with IAVA PAC

Noel

by noelschutz on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 09:15:51 PM EST

Re: BTW, Hackett is not out of politics. (none / 0)

I think that the IAVA PAC is a perfect fit for Hackett.

He can continue to serve his country which he loves doing, still remain in politics without having to deal with the bullshit, will continue to be a media draw since the media loves him, raise money for his buddies, and will create many contacts with potential financial donors if he ever decides to jump back in.

by puma on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 10:18:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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