A Challenge to the Right-wing Bloggers Defending Ben Domenech

(Bumped and updated. - Scott)

Right wingers are defending new Washington Post blogger Ben Domenech over at Redstate's Red Hot and Michelle Malkin's blog.  Ok, fine.  You can argue the politics and the structure of journalism if you'd like, and you can even make an argument about balance.  I would disagree with it, but it is at least an argument.

But the plagiarism is a whole different story. If you stand for Domenech's employment at this point, you are standing for the right of journalists to plagiarize without consequence.  Is that what you are after?  Please defend Domenech's plagiarism.  Or at least explain it.

I'm noticing a heck of a lot of silence over there right about now.

Update (Scott): RedState responds, foaming at the mouth. Apparently, we're either making up the plagiarism charge or we're misinformed about the fact that all of those writers actually gave Domenech permission to copy their work. On the first point, sections of his work were posted alongside sections of the work he copied. That's not a debatable point. And I'm pretty sure the latter claim will be debunked by morning. Just a hunch.

By the way, am I the only one who finds this rightist faux-indignation just so cute you could pinch it?

Update 2 (Matt): An Atrios commenter points out that we're not talking about the two times Ben didn't plagiarize something. We are kind of mean that way.

Update 3 (Chris): Via Riehl World View, moving beyond plagarism and into outright fabrication, it would appear that in 2002 Domenech fabricated a Tim Russert quote. Spansanity has the details.



Display:


Nope (3.00 / 0)

Here's what an official Red State contributor had to say:

Here's what we'll do.     By: Leon H Wolf
I notice from the date of that posting that Ben would have been either 16 or 17 when he wrote those pieces. Maybe you were fluent in APA guidelines for blockquoting and attribution at that age, but I wasn't.

Nonetheless!

I think you may be on to something here.

What we'll do is we'll go back to everything everyone ever wrote from when they were 16 years of age or older. If we find anything that is not properly attributed according to APA/Blue Book/some other professional standard of writing, we disqualify them from holding a job, forever.

Sounds like a plan to me.

Now THAT is an argument you won't have trouble shooting down.


by mikeinflorida on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 08:17:19 PM EST

Re: Nope (none / 0)

One comment, nice find.  It doesn't really challenge the point or answer the question.


by Matt Stoller on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 08:36:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Heh (3.00 / 1)

I know. Your point remains, I agree. I just thought the comment was so funny that you'd want to read it.


by mikeinflorida on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 08:37:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nope (none / 0)

When did the plagiarism take place and how old was he?


by cwilson on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 08:39:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nope (none / 0)

For most of what's being pointed out, he was probably 17. Yet, this piece for National Review was only 5 years ago (according to this comment some was lifted). That would put him at about 19.

Young, but he's also young now. Five years isn't a long time. Also, this is with a real publication, and not just a student one.

Also, being young (19) isn't a defense. That he wasn't qualified was THE POINT.


by mikeinflorida on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 08:54:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nope (none / 0)

Isn't Josh Marshall's quibble that Ben is a crony since his dad is a Bushie (and also grossy unqualified for his job)?


by DaveB on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 08:58:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nope (none / 0)

I wasn't asking the question incident to defending the lad. I just wanted the information, that's all. I think he'd probably deserve a wild card for anything before college, but then the standards go up. I hope they nail his ass.


by cwilson on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 09:01:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nope (3.00 / 2)

This was actually written as an opinion piece for his college paper. I guess, in a way, it was. It just happened to be someone else's opinion.

And I'm with the other commenter who pointed out that by the time you're in college, you're well aware that copying someone's work and presenting as your own is totally unacceptable.

It'll be funny if the rightists claim that he was too young to be held accountable. These are the same people who want 14 year olds tried as adults for their crimes.


by Scott Shields on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 10:29:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nope (none / 0)

If you don't know by college, you should at the very least know by the time you are in the Congress.


by Bob Brigham on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 10:34:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Being young is no excuse. (none / 0)

Hell, I'm 19 and I know what plagiarism is, I know that it's immoral and unprofessional, and I know that any writer with a modicum of sense and talent would never even consider it. If I were to engage in plagiarism in any of my classes, I would fail the assignment, probably fail the class, be referred to Student Judicial Services, and face some sort of academic sanction.  

Either Ben Domenech has no idea what plagiarism is, in which case he needs to go back to college, since that kind of ignorance disqualifies him from writing for any reputable publication, or he intentionally and shamelessly plagiarized other writers for his own personal gain, in which case he also has no business writing for any reputable publication.

Either way, Mr. Domenech has no place in the world of journalism.

If the Post has any journalistic integrity left, they'll can Mr. Domenech and issue an apology for this whole sordid incident.


by Neimad on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 12:33:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

When I was ten (none / 0)

I knew that simply copying that article out of the World Book Encyclopedia for a school paper was cheating. You could extract every bit of material fact that you used from that source, nobody expects a middle-schooler to be researching primary sources, but you had to put it into your own words.

Because chances are you were not teaching your fourth grade teacher something new about Abraham Lincoln, instead she was looking to see if you could put forth coherent, well crafted sentences.

Well I guess being home schooled means never getting an F and being sent to the Vice Principals office for cheating.


by Bruce Webb on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 08:34:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

ooo, I like that (none / 0)

"Conservatives defend plaigarism of conservative blogger -- 'what's the big deal?'"

They're going to find very, very quickly that this is a mistake.


by jonweasel on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 09:50:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ooo, I like that (none / 0)

We should start a betting pool on how quickly the kid of outta there.


by cwilson on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 09:57:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Challenge to the Right-wing Bloggers Defendi (3.00 / 3)

When I was 17, I had already had years and years of extremely strict guidance about plagiarism, copying, and other forms of cheating or stealing.

That education took place both in a pretty standard public school and in my high school, which was a mixed "semi-private" day- and boarding- school in rural Maine.

There were several instances in both Freshman and Sophomore English Lit Classes where people were caught copying others' work, either in class or on homework, OR in terms of cliff's notes or other forms of plagiarizing on take-home book reports or essays...

They were given failing marks on that work, were often given extremely severe punishments including detentions or the like, and were told that any further examples of that behavior would result in either suspension or expulsion.

Period.

Leon H. is a moron, has no scruples and is a hypocritical turd.

Ben "Augustine" Domenech is a plagiarist, a Confederate-lover, and a racist.


by RedDan on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 09:00:34 PM EST

Re: A Challenge to the Right-wing Bloggers Defendi (none / 0)

I think the stuff before college is of interest, but only to show the genesis of what he did when he wrote on the national scene. It will be interesting to see how much they come up with from his more recent writings. I think someone who plagiarized as much as he did when younger probably didn't stop cold turkey at the age of 19.

My gut says they'll find stuff that's [i]VERY[/i] recent, and that, as a result, the poor boy will be out of there soon. Amusing. Now, as much shit as I give to the so-called "Netroots," the liberal blogs do excel at this sort of stuff.


by cwilson on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 09:05:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

plagiarism isn't cool (2.00 / 0)

It wasn't cool when Sherrod Brown was caught doing it and it isn't cool when GOP mouthpieces get caught doing it and it also stinks when the GOP does it. The blogosphere respects writers by offering links to credit. Both sides of the blogosphere should strongly come out against those who pass off others writings as their own without giving credit where credit is due.


by Bob Brigham on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 09:56:24 PM EST

I don't see the press picking this up (1.00 / 0)

The DC press already mocked the progressive blogosphere for not caring about plagiarism.


by Bob Brigham on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 10:00:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Challenge to the Right-wing Bloggers Defendi (none / 0)

The Post should be ashamed that they have yet to fire him.  If they actually were concerned about, say, covering the news, then it would be mentioned anywhere on their website by now.  Pathetic.


by ZamboniGuy on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 11:39:29 PM EST

Re: A Challenge (none / 0)

If you're going to be fair, check memeorandum. There are already a few conservative blogs speaking to the issue. My own post is below.

http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorou s_conservative/2006/03/domenech_has_to.h tml


by DanRiehl on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 02:16:45 AM EST

Permission irrelevant, IMHO (none / 0)

...or we're misinformed about the fact that all of those writers actually gave Domenech permission to copy their work.

In the long run, does that matter?  Does getting the permission of the author give one license to present their words as your own original work?

As far as I know, permission or no permission, academic ethics still require you to identify the author of material that is not your own.


by JDWalley on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 04:52:18 AM EST

Re: Permission irrelevant, IMHO (none / 0)

Yes,it's a non-starter.  Salon has already denied they gave permission.  


by Captain Future on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 05:38:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Challenge to the Right-wing Bloggers (none / 0)

Joe Conason at salon has written about it.

His college paper is looking into the charges, so they are taking it seriously.  So far the National Review isn't.  But I expect Editor & Publisher, etc. to weigh in, and the Post is going to have to respond.


by Captain Future on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 05:35:49 AM EST

Re: A Challenge to the Right-wing Bloggers Defendi (2.00 / 0)

I hate to say this but from what I can tell, the this has nothing to do with integrity, journalism or balance, but has everything to do with WashingtonPost.com's knowledge of the blogosphere, Google, the web, and knowledge that its audience is different then the paper's.  

Key thing folks: the web site wapo.com, is ran by a different team then the paper's.  

I wrote more about it here:
http://www.paradox1x.org/weblog/kmartino /archives/004496.shtml


by kmartino on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 07:05:45 AM EST

Looks like AMERICAblog found this out to be true (none / 0)

http://americablog.blogspot.com/2006/03/ wash-post-ombudsman-blows-off.html

The pape will deny any responsibility for the site.  

The site knows exactly what it is doing.


by kmartino on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 09:14:45 AM EST

Was that the time Ben fabricated an AP article? (none / 0)

it would appear that in 2002 Domenech fabricated a Tim Russert quote

or is this some other thing that Ben made up?  

There are just so many, they're hard to keep straight.
.


by Grand Moff Texan on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 09:39:54 AM EST

Re: A Challenge to the Right-wing Bloggers Defendi (none / 0)

I notice that Ben hasn't posted anything to his WaPo blog since about 2 PM yesterday.  Coincidence?

Boy, I'd love to be a fly on the wall over at the WaPo right now.


by sethco on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 10:14:19 AM EST

Re: A Challenge to the Right-wing Bloggers Defendi (none / 0)

A few comments:

First off, if The Washington Post is actually denying responsibility for its website, that is one of the thinner and smarmier lies I've heard for a while, and is really disturbing.

Secondly, if Domenech had on a couple of occasions plagiarized minor amounts of content that appeared in his high school or college newspapers, those would be venial sins and they wouldn't matter. But it looks like he was a serial plagiarizer whose stolen content appeared on the national scene. That's a horse of a different color.

I need to tell a story here. When I was 16 years old I attended a summer journalism program at a major university. They sent us out to cover "the world's largest garage sale." I was a very shy kid, and I simply fabricated the quotes for the story I filed. I made up some names, and I attached one fictitious quote to the name that I had gotten from someone who I had interviewed.

Lo and behold, the teachers decided mine was the best of the 90 stories. I got all kinds of praise, and they arranged to have it printed in a summer edition of the college paper. I was mortified and scared out of my gourd that the person who I had named but who didn't say what I attributed to him would step forward.

I was never unmasked, but the incident stayed with me forever. It was the end of my lyin' days, that's for sure. So when I see Domenech's plagiarism on the one hand I can sort of sympathize with him but on the other hand the frequency and extent of his theft tells me that he is, or at least was for a time, brazen and out of control.

To me, the real issue should be whether this was a passing phase. Did the guy clean up his act after having an internal come-to-Jesus session? The record really ought to show. Also, I want to see how he handles it now. If the guy fails to come completely clean, that'll speak volumes.

Finally, the issue of basic ethics -- plagiarism, fabrication, censorship, disregard for fact and the reckless deployment of ad hominem attacks -- is a big issue throughout the blogosphere. You see it everywhere, including on the left-wing blogs, and no one says anything about it.

Here are some examples that I'm familiar with:

Just in the last couple weeks, Capitol Hill Blue made what is almost certainly a phony claim that it had received a "National Security Letter" from the FBI alleging that the government had demanded information about its staff, contributors and readers. I originally believed it, but then took a closer look and have shown that the claim is almost certainly a hoax.

I reported this to Buzzflash, a liberal site, which did nothing with it. Capitol Hill Blue did what sites always do when challenged: They banned me.

A couple months ago, I was effectively banned from Daily Kos for repeating the verified fact that one-third of the contributions from Abramhoff's corrupt keiretsu went to Democrats. Mention of the same facts got me booted off of Democrats.com.

And when I pointed out critical errors in the coverage of a "gore-for-porn scandal" highlighted by the liberal Americablog, its owner and chief bottlewasher, John Aravosis, declared me "rude" and banned me for a time. And his flogging of that "scandal" wound up putting the blogger in jail, and as of the end of April, off of the Internet.

So, while I offer a lusty cheer for unmasking Domenech, I'd also note that some stones are being thrown by folks who live in glass houses.


by cwilson on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 12:32:41 PM EST

Can you e-mail me those links? (none / 0)

"for repeating the verified fact that one-third of the contributions from Abramhoff's corrupt keiretsu went to Democrats."

Because I don't want to launch some sort of flame war, and you seem reasonably civil. But if you have actual evidence that Abramoff himself directed his clients to send money to Democrats as opposed to say having certain of his clients continue to send money in smaller quanties after retaining him then I would like to see it. Because I want to steal that Pulitzer from you.

If Abramoffs primary client had been Coca-Cola or GM this whole guilt by association thing would be laughed out of the room. The notion that Native Americans are so clueless that they could not possibbly have been acting independently after they hired Massa Jack is (inflammatory adjective deleted at last second) nonsense.

Correlation is not causation. Please send me the smoking gun.


by Bruce Webb on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 01:48:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Can you e-mail me those links? (none / 0)

Replied in the wrong place. Go to opensecrets.com. It's all there.


by cwilson on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 04:00:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Can you e-mail me those links? (none / 0)

Open Secrets is a big place. I found this:

http://www.capitaleye.org/abramoff.asp

Which doesn't support your claim. Years and years ago I either originated or at least popularized the phrase "This is dKos, you don't get to simply make shit up".

Translates fine here at the home of Kos's 'blogfather'


by Bruce Webb on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 05:13:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Can you e-mail me those links? (none / 0)

You found the right link, and it absolutely DOES support my claim that Democrats got one-third of the money from Abramhoff's keiretsu. The Kossacks just LOVED to wax eloquent (well, wax anyway) about how corrupt the contributions to the Republicans were. But when I pointed out that Democrats got one-third of the money then they got all legalistic about how the "contributions" were "legal."

What's even funnier about it is how the self-styled "netroots" loves to play insurgent against the Democratic regulars, but when it comes right down to it the "netroots" are just as hooked on the K Street game as anyone else, and are just as hooked on censorship and self-praise as the wingnuts are.

And they're just as apt to lie and/or twist facts that they find inconvenient.


by cwilson on Sun Mar 26, 2006 at 03:45:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Challenge to the Right-wing Bloggers Defendi (none / 0)

Go to Opensecrets.com

It's all there.


by cwilson on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 04:00:21 PM EST

Link please? (none / 0)

We went all around this back in 2001 and 2002. You cite it you back it. It isn't my job to research your claims. Simply citing a site just isn't cutting it.

You just don't get to make shit up. And I have been asked to swallow too much crap on WMD and Social Security over the last few years just to accept a cavalier "Go Google". You Google girl, (or boy) and then bring it.

Show me the money.


by Bruce Webb on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 05:21:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Link please? (none / 0)

The link is at the top of the front page of their site. Surely you could look.


by cwilson on Sat Mar 25, 2006 at 09:31:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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