Open Thread on Dejection and the Keep in the Vote Strategy

The base is dispirited and unhappy, and if I had to guess, Democrats around the country are going to follow TX-28's lead and not vote.  It's like this commenter says.

If everything the dems do is stupid, at some point ya gotta wonder why you are a dem.

Discuss the problem, and please propose solutions.  And these solutions can't be in the form of 'Senate Democrats need to do XYZ' because Senate Dems aren't going to read or care about this thread.  If you notice one of these types of comments, please troll-rate it.

For my money, I think Democrats around the country should run against DC Democrats.

UPDATE: Hotline on Call has the following relevant blurb:

As food for thought, check out this paragraph from NBC's First Read, reporting on the latest NBC News/WSJ poll: "Overall, 2006 is showing some signs of a nationalized election, at least today. Asked which would be more important in determining how they vote, their own representative's position on national issues or their representative's performance in their district, 44% said "national issues" and 40% said performance in the district. That's a greater percentage choosing "national issues" than in October 1994 (35%). Also, 66% say they are more likely to vote for a candidate who "believes that the country needs a major change in direction."



Display:


Open Thread (none / 0)

I attended a Cegelis event on Tuesday, and she delivered a forceful speech wherein she discussed a desperate need for leadership in Congress.  No more centrists, no more triangulators, she said.  Poll after poll supports her position, and voters become energized when they hear her progressive message.  I believe Christine is right, and we should congratulate her for implementing Dean's 50 State Strategy before it became a fashion.


by illinois062006 on Thu Mar 16, 2006 at 10:37:25 AM EST

Re: Open Thread (none / 0)

I hate to be cynical, but watch what happens to her if she gets to DC. The disease is all-encompassing, and resistance is futile. Even our current hero Russ Feingold fell victim -- hard -- to it back in 98 during the Clinton impeachment (when Russ had a tough reelection looming). Please don't fall for the  "angry outsider" rhetoric: It never lasts. Look for winners.


by ColoDem on Thu Mar 16, 2006 at 11:46:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Open Thread (none / 0)

I dunno, Paul Wellstone walked the walk. Bernie Sanders still does. Exceptions who prove the rule, I suppose.

The system is geared towards two types of people making it to Washington to represent the interest groups which fund them: rich white people (at least 42 senators are millionaires, and rising), and long-term Dem or GOP party insiders. Both types easily molt into Beltway pols for obvious reasons. Which is why reform is so critical.

But you won't hear Dems or GOoPers talking about reform, or if you do, it'll be reform which further encrusts both parties into the existing power apparatus. Check current clean money legislation language for how hard it is to get public money and not be a Dem or a GOoPer.

Fact is, most Dems, and this is especially true in the Senate, don't represent us very well. And this will not get better if we continue to reward them for poor performance with our support.

Takes a few broken eggs to make an omelet, and if '06 needs to be that broken egg, so be it.


by redstar66 on Thu Mar 16, 2006 at 12:22:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What to do... (3.00 / 1)

I dont' think we can wait from the leadership on high.  The solution has to be and must be from the bottom up.  Sacrifices need to be made on the local level.  We have fantastic communication tools now that can link small pockets of activity across the country.  The Republican playbook isn't secret.  We  know what they do and how they do it.  Democrats on local levels need to start building social networks.  Social networks are the core of the Republican dominance.  It's about getting involved in bowling leauges, PTA, etc.,  Putnam was right.  


by Chavez100 on Thu Mar 16, 2006 at 10:37:27 AM EST

Re: What to do... (none / 0)

You took the words right out of my mouth. Exactly what I was going to say.

Oh, and as for this:

If everything the dems do is stupid, at some point ya gotta wonder why you are a dem.

The answer is this simple:

Because everything the repubs do is evil.


by Malacandra on Thu Mar 16, 2006 at 11:01:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What to do... (none / 0)

Patience.  Please.

Politics isn't an arena for instant gratification, not if you have some principles.  It took time to get the public to turn on Nixon,  They never really turned on Reagan. That didn't mean giving up.  

This commenter (Chavez100) is correct.  Work from the bottom up.  There are going to be some significant successes in November if people continue to work hard for Dem candidates.  

But in a country where at best only 25% are liberals/progressives, the electorate is always going to be more conservative than we are, and the Dem party is always going to have many officials who are more conservative than we, probably most.  We need to support the ones who are willing to be outspoken and chide those who should be more outspoken, but go easy on the ones who come from more conservative districts.

And have patience.  The only way the R's really win is if people on the left give up and just concentrate on their own private lives.  I think that did happen to some large extent in the late '80s and '90s, and we are all paying for it now.


by Mimikatz on Thu Mar 16, 2006 at 12:18:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What to do... (none / 0)

Couldn't agree more.

After the temperature and tenor of debates during the Alito and TX-28 things, I fear for the sanity of some lefty 'sphere denizens the day after election day - whether the Dems win a house of Congress or not.

And the Feingold censure thing seems to be going the same way.


by skeptic06 on Thu Mar 16, 2006 at 03:31:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Running against DC Dems (none / 0)

isn't necessary.

All we have to do is run against D.C., period.

What percentage of the country even knows that Congress is completely GOP-controlled? Not enough. But in this case that might work to our advantage.

"Throw the bums out."


by tparty on Thu Mar 16, 2006 at 10:39:45 AM EST

Re: Open Thread on Dejection and the Keep in the V (none / 0)

I think Dems need some simple fun activities so politics isn't just doom and gloom. Fun. Not fun at the expense of Republicans but fun that builds you up, fun that makes more of yourself than less of your opponent.

The GOP wants a warped politics because the issues are against them. When the can poison the atmosphere to the point when Democrats turn off they have already won.

I don't know if it's face painting for children or oompah bands or having activist bowling leagues. But it's got to be something - I get burnt from all the complex and deadly hard issues and the tepid and mendacious response of so many in D.C..


"Nothing seems to embarrass the political class today." - Bill Moyers
by joejoejoe on Thu Mar 16, 2006 at 10:42:37 AM EST

Re: Open Thread on Dejection and the Keep in the V (3.00 / 1)

This is a great ides.  There was an article recently in the SF Chronicle anbout Democratic "fun raisers" that combined literary readings or music and socializing with a little politics for a small ($10) charge to raise money in the Bay Area to defeat people in more conservative areas.  I will look for a link, but it is probably on www.sfgate.com


by Mimikatz on Thu Mar 16, 2006 at 12:22:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Open Thread on Dejection and the Keep in the V (none / 0)

Here's the SF Chronicle article.

http://tinyurl.com/ok43l

It's mostly focused on adult fun  with "Drinking Liberally" type events but I have to say the first time I ever wrote my Congressman was at a Ben and Jerry's booth at a concert in Chicago and I did it in exchange for a free ice cream bar. Fun is good.


"Nothing seems to embarrass the political class today." - Bill Moyers
by joejoejoe on Thu Mar 16, 2006 at 01:22:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Run Against DC Dems (none / 0)

I agree 100% that we have to run against DC Dems.  I've mentioned Marcy Winograd running against Jane Harman, for example.

It's amazing that we have people complaining we "shouldn't waste our resources" challenging someone like Harman--who co-engineered a coverup in the House Intelligence Committee the week before the Republicans engineered one in the Senate.

Look, if the issue is defending the Constitution, and that's something that even draws significant Republican support, not to mention the moderates, then Harman is on the wrong side, and she has to be be challenged.

Indeed, it's all too easy to see how giving money to Rahm Emmanuel is "wasiting our resources," if by "us" you mean non-DC Democrats.  i.e. 99.94% of the party.  We do not need another 25 Jane Harmans in Congress.  We need another -25 of them!

BTW, Marcy is President of Progressive Democrats of Los Angeles.  Organizing progressives within the Party is clearly part of the solution as well.

Beyond that, we need to develop our infrastructure outside the party as well.  Washington will be the last place to change. The very last place to get the message.  So we need to look at a multi-pronged approach that takes a wide variety of forms to build up from the grassroots.


by Paul Rosenberg on Thu Mar 16, 2006 at 10:49:50 AM EST

My Strategy (3.00 / 1)

(1) Read "Crashing the Gate"
(2) Do everything it says there

Seriously. It might not be a perfect plan, but I think we'd be much better off.


by dwbh on Thu Mar 16, 2006 at 10:53:03 AM EST

Don't ever forget... (none / 0)

the eunuchs on the right NEVER give up. We can not either, period.

Taking back our party from those out of touch politicians will take time and a concerted effort. So, let us be realistic and just say this is a four year plan and get comfortable.

In the mean time, vote Democrat, give money to Lamont, get active locally, and get active in the state. Our first priority is to work with what we have; a plethora of weak national "leaders". Let us achieve victory in November despite these "leaders" worst efforts. First and foremost we must keep focused upon the viral GOP this year.


by Citizen80203 on Thu Mar 16, 2006 at 10:53:39 AM EST

Re: Open Thread on Dejection (none / 0)

Running against those bums in DC -- in your party and the other party -- sounds like a good way to go.  Even Bush likes to pretend to be a DC outsider, ludicrous as that is.  And when disapproval of Congress is so high, a straight-talkin', DC-bashin' candidate can excite people enough to bring them to the polls.  (One of the problems with Ciro Rodriguez was that he could in no way be considered a shake-up to the status quo in DC; he was just a better DC insider than Cuellar.)


by maestroanonymo on Thu Mar 16, 2006 at 10:56:03 AM EST

Re: Open Thread on Dejection and the Keep in the V (1.50 / 2)

People aren't dumb and apathetic because we're born that way.  It's a slow gradual process.  Democrats need to wake-up and realize that republicans have been waging war on the idea of good government for the past 40 years.  Apathy is grounded in the concept that there is nothing of value.  Look at the themes republicans use.  Government is bad, it is too big, it is dumb, it can't compete with the private market, it is inefficient etc.,  What pride is there in the country we live in?  Aside from sanctimonious flag waving, yellow ribbons etc., how much good feeling is there about our national government, state government or local government?  People aren't happy about the current status.  Dems can offer a better vision.


by Chavez100 on Thu Mar 16, 2006 at 11:06:39 AM EST

Passion is Contagious (none / 0)

I think the key issue in Matt's post is whether or not people will show up to vote. Having a candidate that inspires people to show up at the polls is one part of the equation. Having the infrastructure to reach people is another. All of us are part of that infrastructure.

The next time you go to a speech or a rally - BRING A FRIEND. The next time you read a great article or blog post - SEND IT TO A FRIEND. Are you planning on walking your neighborhood knocking on doors for you your favorite candidate? BRING A FRIEND.

People are most likely to be swayed by a friend or family member. If you have friends or family members who are dissaffected and disinterested then change their minds.


by brookeb on Thu Mar 16, 2006 at 11:43:11 AM EST

Re: Open Thread on Dejection and the Keep in the V (none / 0)

Your analysis of TX-28 is incorrect. Rodriguez did not lose because his base failed to show up. In fact, San Antonio was up 4-5% from 2004. He lost because Cuellar stole some of Ciro's voters, for whatever reason, probably because Ciro was and still is a very poor candidate (although a fantastic guy).

The base may be disappointed in DC Democratic aggressiveness right now, and I agree that running against DC is a great strategy for challengers, but we also have a lot of incumbents who need to win as well. So it's kind of a self-limiting strategy.

I don't think we need to do much. Just hang in there, make everything we say as candidates national in nature, emphasize that we're Democrats, and above all else don't spend any time or effort slamming each other.


by ColoDem on Thu Mar 16, 2006 at 11:43:46 AM EST

Re: Open Thread on Dejection and the Keep in the V (none / 0)

And because there was no downside for Republicans to vote for Cuellar.  The GOP probably targetted those that there were in the district and got them out.


by Mimikatz on Thu Mar 16, 2006 at 12:24:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Timidity as Strategy (none / 0)

Ken Salazar is perfecting it. He doesn't seem to realize he'll never please the reactionary [R]'s here in CO, but he can't pull the trigger on doing the things that will build his support among progressives and independents: standing up for the rule of law and competence in government.

I also remember Kerry on MTP prior to the election when Tim Russert asked him if he was liberal.

Kerry hemmed and hawed.

I don't have any answers right now, just complaints.


by zappatero on Thu Mar 16, 2006 at 12:02:27 PM EST

Re: Open Thread on Dejection (none / 0)

By all means, if the candidate represents your values sufficiently, give her or him your support.

In my case, my "litmus test" involves roughly a dozen issues, and if a candidate makes the right noises about 2 or 3 of them, they'll get my support. Hit half of the buttons and they get my little bit of money and, if local, time too.

On the other hand, if they are not doing so, look for someone who is and reward that person, who is doing you a huge service by volunteering to represent your values in the public, civic domain during election time, with your support.

In my case, locally these people tend to be Greens. But I understand the Social Democrats have some very good and thoughtful people out there, sometimes drowned out by some of their more marginal supporters. At the very least, they speak to our values, unlike the vast majority of Dems.

It doesn't get better by playing GOP-lite. It doesn't get better playing the dog-eared incrementalist card, cooperating with moneyed interests and getting crumbs from the table or, as is most recently the case, crap once the table's meal has been digested. (How else to characterize Democrat complicity in the GOP assault on working Americans over the past 6 years...)

You'd think 30 years of ZERO progressive accomplishment in Washington on the part of the Democrats would have taught that hidebound party something, but it hasn't. They won't shit, but they won't get off the pot. There's only one way to get 'em off the pot, and that's to not humor them with your support anymore.


by redstar66 on Thu Mar 16, 2006 at 12:38:47 PM EST

Re: Open Thread on Dejection and the Keep in the V (none / 0)

We, the non-elected members of the Democratic Party, can make statements of what the Democratic Party stands for by writing letters to the editor, calling in to talk shows, etc., and stating that these are the "core values" of our party:

-  Equality of opportunity;

  •  Jobs for those who can work;
  •  Security for those who need it;
  •  The ending of special privilege for the few;
  •  The preservation of civil liberties for all;
  •  The enjoyment of the fruits of scientific progress;
  •  Widening the opportunities for adequate medical care;
  •  the principle of tax payments in accordance with ability to pay;
  •  a returned commitment to freedom of speech and expression;
  •  freedom to worship, or not, as the person chooses;
  •  freedom from want, by way of economic understandings which will secure to every nation a healthy peacetime life for its inhabitants;
  •  freedom from fear.

This radical set of ideals was postulated by one of the most popular Presidents in US history--Franklin Delano Roosevelt.

It is because our Party leaders, in their quest to react to polls and pressure from corporate donors/handlers/sponsors, have strayed so far from these ideals, that we find our Party to be divided, ineffective, cowed, and corrupted.

It is up to us to re-make this Party.  We've started--Dean is assisting with the reformulation of the Party at the state and local levels.  In Colorado, we elected a state Chair who is anything but an insider.  Candidates who are far more progressive than those of 10 years ago are more frequently stepping up and running serious campaigns for office.

The Party machinery has a certain bureaucratic inertia which will resist this change mightily.  DLC types, and self-aggrandizing hacks like James Carville, will try to insist on business as usual.  But, the Netroots, provided we do not wallow in our own depression, can make the Democratic Party once again into a party of the people.


by leveller on Thu Mar 16, 2006 at 12:40:59 PM EST

Organizing against mainstream Dems (none / 0)

Matt et al. -

Have you checked in on the Online Progressive Caucus lately? Remember Matt front-paged a post on it encouraging everyone to sign up. Matt is also a representive.

Well the Online Progressive Caucus is in danger of becoming a lot less progressive and a lot more mainstream Dem. They rejected endorsing Cegelis in IL-6 (despite the wishes of their constituents including those living in the district), they still haven't endorsed Ned Lamont despite support that reaches their threshold (despite not having the support of the leading representitive, Garret Gruener), now the latest thing is that there is opposition to formally saying that intelligent design shouldn't be taught in science classes.

We talk a lot here about grassroots organizing. Well here is an organization that is simple to join and that doesn't require anything more than sitting at your computer and registering your opinion and STILL the progressive voices are not being heard there.

If you are a member please reevaluate your participation. Let me also suggest that you vote for wegerje. He, at least, is committed to making the OPC something that is meaningful and progressive.


PrairieStateBlue - Open Source Politics (formerly SoapBlox/Chicago)
by ltsply2 on Thu Mar 16, 2006 at 12:45:39 PM EST

Re: Organizing against mainstream Dems (none / 0)

I don't support Cegelis.


by Matt Stoller on Thu Mar 16, 2006 at 01:37:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Organizing against mainstream Dems (none / 0)

Well, you voted to endorse her.

Either way, it's fine. I'm just suggesting that one way for progressives to take the Democratic party is to participate more actively in the groups like the OPC (link fixed from earlier). Perhaps my reading of the "progressive" position in IL-6 is different (and indeed I'm sure there are plenty of progressives who don't support Cegelis for assorted reasons), but the more general point still stands.


PrairieStateBlue - Open Source Politics (formerly SoapBlox/Chicago)
by ltsply2 on Thu Mar 16, 2006 at 02:10:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Organizing against mainstream Dems (none / 0)

Why?  And if you do not support Cegelis, who do you support for the Democratic nomination?  For surely there are no other progressives in the district.  


by illinois062006 on Thu Mar 16, 2006 at 03:42:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Organizing against mainstream Dems (none / 0)

Your hyperlink has two many "HTTP"s. I kept getting a 404 error until I discovered the problem. Should be http://www.onlineprogressivecaucus.org/d ev/
by pascal1947 on Thu Mar 16, 2006 at 08:37:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Organizing against mainstream Dems (none / 0)

Yeah, I noticed. I put a corrected link in my reply to Matt. I should have made it more prominent. Thanks for the catch.


PrairieStateBlue - Open Source Politics (formerly SoapBlox/Chicago)
by ltsply2 on Thu Mar 16, 2006 at 09:52:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Communication and Trust (none / 0)

First we have to realize that at best we make up a quarter of a very big and diverse country.  Second, I think that in their hearts, many Senators agree with much of what we say but keep bumping up against point #1.  Third, I personally believe there is a quantum change in behavior between having 49 votes in the Senate, and 51.  Right now, Harry Reid has no committee chairs to offer or withhold to enforce discipline.

What we really need is a way for our leaders to communicate to us, "We know what we're doing, we agree with you, and we've got a plan and you may have to wait three or six months."  If there were such plans, and there were such communications, and we could trust them, episodes like this would go much more smoothly.  Of course, point 1 is: there has to be a plan.

The Republicans long ago mastered speaking to their base in code.  Maybe we should think about it.  Not as pure "me-too-ism", but because it's a sound strategy.


by Professor Foland on Thu Mar 16, 2006 at 09:38:01 PM EST


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