Exciting beta-test: The Online Progressive Congress

This is a pretty cool model. I've been wrestling a lot with online governance issues, and Marc's a great thinker in this realm. Matt

I've been thinking a lot lately about what it is we do here at MyDD, and how our efforts help put more Progressive Democrats in power. In general I think we entertain ourselves by speculating, debating and hypothesizing about what is going to happen in politics, what the implications are of what has happened  and of course constant discussion of what Democrats should do to win elections.

But I fear something is missing, particularly in this last component. Now, I've never run or won an election before, so I think it is a little crazy for me to make suggestions on how we should win, but I don't think it is crazy for me to suggest how candidates can better connect to their grassroots activists and clearly this is one component of winning elections. The challenge is for candidates is figuring out what the hordes of MoveOn members, Kossacks, DFAers, etc... collectively believe - what issues and messages are we looking for from our candidates? Sure there are plenty of blog posts, diaries and comments on lots of different topics in many different forums, but does what someone writes on DailyKos mean that we all support it? Do Chris/Kos/Stoller/Scott/etc... define us? Even if they did, where is this 'definition' located?

So what to do?

I am involved in a project that is designed to deal with this problem. The project is called the Online Progressive Congress and the basic idea is...

to build a community where the power of online progressive activists can be aggregated through representatives - representatives who are literally elected by the members of the community. Anyone can run to be a rep, and community members can switch representation at any time - the system of representation is updated in real time - so representatives are immediately accountable for their words and actions on behalf of their constituents.

The idea behind these representatives is in part an acknowledgment that people have lives - we go on vacation, have long days at work, etc. - but that we still want our voices to be heard. The OPC and its elected representatives can be that permanent voice, representing the positions and principles of a larger community. The community also votes on those positions and principles and once ideas are approved, they go onto our "What We Believe" page which serves as an evolving representation of what we as a community believe.

I'd love to get your feedback in comments, and even more I'd love for you to give our beta (really really beta) tools a test drive at http://www.progressivecongress.org/dev/s ignup

Hope to see you on the floor of the Online Progressive Congress and if you don't want to run I hope you'll vote for me (or for Stoller).



Display:


Re: Exciting beta-test: The Online Progressive Con (none / 0)

Well your first step should be allowing people to view the site without registering. Otherwise you are offering a pig in a poke.

Whatever your objectives, letting visitors read your material can only aid your cause. You can limit other activities, like posting for those who don't register.


---Policies not Politics
Daily Quiet Image
by rdf on Thu Feb 09, 2006 at 04:43:39 PM EST

Re: Exciting beta-test: The Online Progressive Con (none / 0)

rdf, we've been working on improving our ability to provide granular levels of access to our system. Right now for a variety of reasons we don't have the level of control that we want on this front, so rather than open things wide up, we decided to create a community which is somewhat 'safer', but clearly less useful for marketing. Ultimately we as a community will have to decide what portions of the site to make public and which ones to keep to members only.


by Marc Laitin on Thu Feb 09, 2006 at 10:51:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

1: Registration Verification.- 2: Delegable Proxy (none / 0)

1: Registration Verification.

Ultimately this will be a biggie.

2: Delegable Proxy

This will be an eventual needed improvement.

3: Open Source voting code and verifiable results.

Another biggie.

I'll have more to say as this develops and I have more time.


Jeff Wegerson - PrairieStateBlue
by wegerje on Thu Feb 09, 2006 at 10:06:27 PM EST

Re: 1: Registration Verification.- 2: Delegable P (none / 0)

4)Valuable Cash Prizes!


by Teaser on Thu Feb 09, 2006 at 10:25:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 1: Registration Verification.- 2: Delegable P (none / 0)

well... perhaps not valuable cash prizes, but the plan is to pay representatives out of membership fees and also representatives will control how the money raised by the organization is vectored... that's not bad, right?


by Marc Laitin on Thu Feb 09, 2006 at 11:11:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 1: Registration Verification.- 2: Delegable P (none / 0)

Jeff, I'm looking forward to your additional thoughts and questions. Here is a first stab response to what I think you are asking:

1) Clearly registration verification is a critical problem, as firmly establishing one person one vote is the central underpinning of any successful representative community. In this beta phase we are allowing people to just sign-up without any 'real/verifiable' information. Our view is that it is currently more important to get enough people in the system, testing the tools, etc... than putting barriers to entry. Once we get deeper in the beta we are going to disable this registration page and people will have to go through our payment page to join. The membership fee serves several important purposes, not the least of which is helping (although it is imperfect) verify identity and ensuring that people don't join and then vote multiple times (we can do this by restricting each credit card to X transactions). I will get into other benefits of the paid membership model later if you are interested.

2) Delegable proxy: our view on this is that your representative has your proxy, but your representative does not have a vote equivalent to the number of proxies he/she has been given, rather each representative has an equal vote. The reasons for this are basically that we want to discourage proxy hoarding and encourage a broad range of people to serve as representatives (imagine how many proxies Kos or Eli Pariser could accumulate). The rule as we current have it is that the top 20 vote getters + anyone with over 10k proxies is a representative. I'm going to read through the article you linked and will surely learn something new...

3) Open Source voting code -- agreed completely and I will have our programmer discuss what we are doing on this front in a later post.

Thanks for the great thoughts and keep 'em coming. This is an idea that has been gestating for a while and one that is by its very nature a communal project.


by Marc Laitin on Thu Feb 09, 2006 at 10:49:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

More time, more thoughts. (none / 0)

You/we are just beginning. The questions/issues I raise are meant to suggest possible future directions. A new venture requires fewer and simpler rules. As it grows so too will the rules requirements grow.

You are quite right to not be worried at this stage about registration verification. I raised the issue to begin hearing ideas. Ideally the Social Security Administration would charge a minimal fee to organizations seeking a system of unique verification. One would apply to them and they would issue you an id number unique to the organization needing it, and very different ID number than a Social Security Number. That's a very rough undeveloped idea. Another is that there are companies/organizations that process applications for college grants/loans that require you to submit tax information. Assuming sufficient privacy, something along those lines might be possible. Both of these ideas are very rough.

Delegable proxies make registration verification much more important. With your/our setup now, i.e. the top 20 being representatives and all over x proxies being representatives, the issues of some people having multiple votes is less significant. But delegable proxies is to my mind clearly the goal to work towards. Issues of too much concentration of power can be dealt with by other rules, just as you/we now create rules allowing 10k worth of proxies to be a representative. That 10k is clearly an arbitrary number.

All this stuff is pretty much un-charted waters. We can't really say just how it's going to work until it's been tried and experienced. Would Kos really rack up 100'000s of proxy votes? Maybe, maybe not. Remember we're dealing with a lot of people who see themselves as chiefs rather than tribal members. Which is ok because you have to be a member of the tribe to be a chief.

One of the things I am looking for is subsets of the whole. I'm involved in a local group blog, SoapBlox/Chicago and SoapBlox/Chicago is one of a number of progressive organizations in Chicago. Here's a diary where I describe a need for a unifing process and here's another where I suggest delegable proxies as an interesting process to a local DFA leader. If you/we split the Progressive Congess into its two functionalities, one a congress and the other a voter utility, then the voter utility could provide local subsets with local delegable proxy capabilities.

What convinced me to join this effort was the prescense of StartChange and Matt Stoller. It behooves you/us to use well known names and organizations in the promotion of this idea. After all isn't that what it's all about. Who at the Progressive Congess do you (a potential member) feel already represents the way you think? Do you see them here? Yes? Then you need to join.

Cross-Posted at Progressive Congress.


Jeff Wegerson - PrairieStateBlue
by wegerje on Fri Feb 10, 2006 at 12:43:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

OK so here's a huge issue. (none / 0)

If I am a candidate, but not yet a representative, then neither my vote counts nor does anyone who has voted for me count for anything. Right off the bat you need to create a way for someone to represent those of us who are working for a new representative.


Jeff Wegerson - PrairieStateBlue
by wegerje on Fri Feb 10, 2006 at 12:40:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: OK so here's a huge issue. (none / 0)

wegerj, we've gone back and forth on this and we are considering giving you the ability to give your proxy (including all the people who have given you their proxy) to someone else... Thus enabling people to form coalitions, etc... There are some downsides to this, but it solves the problem you are addressing. Another option is to give people the ability to list their top 5-10 candidates and then use some algorithm (relatively complicated) that gives them the highest ranked person who is a rep. You as a candidate who is not yet a rep would be told how many more #1 (or 2) votes you would need to get to make it past the threshold, but that would be fairly complicated.

thoughts?


by Marc Laitin on Sat Feb 11, 2006 at 10:37:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Sorry I'm just seeing this now. (none / 0)

I have since posted a Position paper. I'll repost this and my reply as a reply at the position paper.


Jeff Wegerson - PrairieStateBlue
by wegerje on Mon Feb 13, 2006 at 02:22:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Exciting beta-test: The Online Progressive Con (none / 0)

I've never run or won an election before, so I think it is a little crazy for me to make suggestions on how we should win....

Well, the "experts" haven't exactly been doing so hot themselves recently, so don't sell yourself short. The Internet seems like a great enabling technology for direct democracy, which is (I think) what you're trying to do.

One suggestion: one shouldn't need to sign up just to see general information like "What We Believe." How is someone supposed to know whether they want to join, if they have to join before they can even discover what the organization is about?


If you're always playing the fear card, it's a pretty good sign you're not playing with a full deck!
by Mathwiz on Fri Feb 10, 2006 at 05:44:13 PM EST

Re: Exciting beta-test: The Online Progressive Con (none / 0)

Mathwiz, thanks for the thoughts and I would counter that while many of the experts haven't won many elections recently (Bob Shrum for example), there are people who have won elections, or come very close in races that no one thought would be close, and I think we have a lot to learn from them. One of the dangers in my mind about the rise of the blogosphere is the ease with which one can become a backseat campaigner. If we don't actually run any campaigns we can never actually lose, so we bear no responsibility for losses, but can continue to criticize those who do actually run things...

As for your question of information, I think you make a great point on the what we believe section. I can change this, and probably will, but the problem right now is that this section just has a starter set of principles and then a set of debates we are having on those principles, but it doesn't really represent what we believe per-se. The initial set of beta testers (including you hopefully) will be the ones who really define and refine that list... Then i'll be comfortable going more public with it.


by Marc Laitin on Sat Feb 11, 2006 at 10:41:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]


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