And Lieberman Knifes Obama on Imus

The McCain-Obama fight is one of those insider-y deals which has nothing to do with the argument and everything to do with changing power dynamics in the Senate.  Currently, McCain is trying to push Obama off the bipartisan reform stage, and using a vicious attacks and the complicit Beltway talking heads to do so.  I'm not just saying that, read the correspondence (or read the partisan blog Redstate's joyous celebrations over McCain's red meat throw).  It's extremely clear that Obama is asking McCain for a procedural request, while McCain's letter is bitterly sarcastic, partisan, and insulting.  Obama's second letter, praising McCain, makes this point especially well.  A key figure here is Lieberman, because he was actually at the meeting where the misunderstanding took place, and because he is part of the bipartian group working on lobbying reform.  As I wrote yesterday:

Lieberman can call out McCain on his partisan slash-and-burn strategy, and buttress Obama's claim to bipartisanship.  Or he can participate in the smear and ask both sides to calm down, even though this attack is entirely one-sided and it is very clear that Obama is seeking a bipartisan good ethics bill.  

Well, on Imus this morning, Don Imus interviewed Lieberman.  And while I don't have the transcript yet, the gist of the conversation was as follows.  Imus asked Lieberman about the fight, and Lieberman alleged that it was all a big misunderstanding and that both men had were interested in getting a good bipartisan bill out of the process.  He implied that both men had cleared up the misunderstanding.  Imus at that point interjected that McCain stands by his letter, and Lieberman changed course.  Lieberman then said that McCain stood by his letter, and Obama stood by his letter, except that Obama probably wishes he were a little clearer.

And then Imus and Lieberman talked about Joe's wife and how she leaves angry diatribes on his voice mail, and that he can just delete them.  Finally, Lieberman added that he hopes it's a one day story, on the third day of the story, on Imus.  Later in the interview, he bragged about his work with McCain on some legislation.  Looks like he made his choice.

Oh, and earlier in the interview, Lieberman agreed with Imus that there was "some nonsense" at Coretta Scott King's funeral.

UPDATE: I should add that Lieberman is a very mild-mannered and nice man, and so if you're not aware of the context this can appear a bit overanalytical. But the choices he's making are clear.

UPDATE: It's not just my imagination. A Senate aide watching the interview this morning sent me this comment:

Absolutely spot on. He sold Obama so far down the river that he's now swimming off the gulf coast.



Display:


Re: And Lieberman Knifes Obama on Imus (none / 0)

And Lieberman Knifes Obama on Imus

He can't help himself. It's in his nature. He likes being an enabler. He wants another kiss from dubya.
543,895 votes
by Michael Bersin on Wed Feb 08, 2006 at 08:42:56 AM EST

Throw them both under the bus (none / 0)

I am sick of Joe and I am getting sick of Obama.

Comments like, "I think we have been very good at saying no, but not good enough at saying yes" are wearing thin with me.

There ought to be some show sort of like the old battle of the NFL stars, or some nonsense, where democrats like Lieberman and Barack compete to see who can be more "above the fray".

As for Imus send him and email at imus.msnbc.com and tell him what a used up tool he is.


by dpANDREWS on Wed Feb 08, 2006 at 08:51:53 AM EST

The cubicles are open (none / 0)

I am getting sick of Obama

It looks like the rnc intern cubicles are open a little early this morning. Try a little harder, dude.


543,895 votes
by Michael Bersin on Wed Feb 08, 2006 at 08:55:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Your post is childish (none / 0)

What?  We hold different views therefore I must work for the RNC?

Puh-lease.


by dpANDREWS on Wed Feb 08, 2006 at 09:22:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No, your post is childish (3.00 / 1)

Pflbbbt!

You just circulate their talking points, memes and frames for them, then?


543,895 votes
by Michael Bersin on Wed Feb 08, 2006 at 09:24:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Lessons Learned (3.00 / 2)

We know Joe. He's an old dog and will never change.

Obama - I hope - learned a lesson here, and he should give McCain back exactly what McCain gave him - the back of his hand.

Obama - like Digby sez - needs to quit saying what we "should do" and "should say" - and start doing and saying them.

Today.


by zappatero on Wed Feb 08, 2006 at 09:42:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And Lieberman Knifes Obama on Imus (none / 0)

Last night I met the guy who's taking on Lieberman in the CT primary, Ned Lamont. Until I sat down and talked with him-- and then heard him make a speech to a houseful of activists-- I didn't believe anyone could seriously take on Lieberman. Now I'm convinced Lamont is going to make a serious candidate-- and an absolutely GREAT one for progressives. He's smart and super-aware of all the issues important to people that Beltway-World denizens like Lieberman are so utterly out of touch with. Lamont is also charasmatic and very easy to talk with; awesome candidate! And he comes down firmly in the Jack Murtha camp when it comes to Iraq.


by DownWithTyranny on Wed Feb 08, 2006 at 09:12:54 AM EST

Re: And Lieberman Knifes Obama on Imus (none / 0)

Were you at the thing Rick Jacobs threw last night?  I couldn't make it...and I have checkbook fatigue...and I tired of throwing money at losers.

(which I know is petty, but I so tired of having my name sold to lists.  Enough was enough when I got an email from Tom Vilsack.  

If Ned can make a decent run, tho...I will help out as much as I can.


by nanorich on Wed Feb 08, 2006 at 09:48:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And Lieberman Knifes Obama on Imus (none / 0)

Rick was on the host committee but he wasn't there. It was a cool event and Lamont seemed very different from yer run of the mill candidate comin' to use the California ATM. He's a really personable guy bristling with ideas and a genuine sense of curiosity about other people's points of view. I don't want to rub it in, but you picked the wrong one to miss. To be honest, I had no intention of giving him any money until after I heard him speak and after I got to, so to speak, kick the tires. Now I'll max out on his campaign. I WISH the DCCC was recruiting candidates like Lamont. And when it comes to the DSCC... well compare Lamont to that reactionary jerk Bill Casey they came up with in PA and weep. If Lamont wins a Senate seat progressives will have a new hero. If Casey wins, we'll have another... Joe Lieberman.


by DownWithTyranny on Wed Feb 08, 2006 at 10:22:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And Lieberman Knifes Obama on Imus (none / 0)

I don't mean to steal any thunder at all here, because I'm a big Lamont supporter and big Lieberman opponent, but I have a concern in the back of my head that maybe it wouldn't have been such a bad idea to run Lamont for the House against one of the Repub Reps in Connecticut.  Pickup being a pickup and the anti-Lieberman thing is still a longshot (although a winnable and important one).


by Lucas O'Connor on Wed Feb 08, 2006 at 10:36:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And Lieberman Knifes Obama on Imus (3.00 / 1)

No thanks. He lives in Greenwich, in CT-04. We're putting up Diane Farrell again, who lost to Shays by only 52-48. She's a great candidate, and she's going to win this time out.


by Matthew Gertz on Wed Feb 08, 2006 at 10:40:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Ah, well...such is life... (none / 0)

I am sorry I missed it...and thanks for the recap.  I suspect he will be coming out to LA in the coming weeks, but I doubt if I am on the rarified lists which will allow me to rub elbows with early supporters.

He sounds like a tonic to cure the Lieberman sickness, which just gets worse, and tends tending to.  


by nanorich on Wed Feb 08, 2006 at 01:46:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Because McCain spawned corruption culture (none / 0)

Remember it was the MCCAIN-Feingold "reform" bill that created all the loopholes big enough for an armored car full of bribes. He helpd CREATE the current corruption with bogus "reforms" and is ramping up to do it again.


by bernardpliers on Wed Feb 08, 2006 at 10:29:08 AM EST

Re: Because McCain spawned corruption culture (none / 0)

remember who else has their name on that though.


by Lucas O'Connor on Wed Feb 08, 2006 at 10:36:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Because McCain spawned corruption culture (3.00 / 1)

This just isn't so. McCain-Feingold didn't do anything (or much, anyway) to stop the lobbying/bribery by campaign contributions that defines the current situation in Republican DC. But Abramoff and Delay Inc were doing their thing in Washington long before 2002, when McCain-Feingold was passed.

You can say it didn't stop the problem, but it certainly did not create it. McCain-Feingold made some modest changes, like banning soft money and issue ads, in conjunction with modestly increasing contribution limits. It neither quelled nor caused the current situation.


by taliesin on Wed Feb 08, 2006 at 10:45:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And Lieberman Knifes Obama on Imus (3.00 / 3)

I think Josh Marshall has it right. This is the first in a series of fake stories that Republicans will be able to point back at in 2008 to show that Obama is somehow untrustworthy. In addition, it's a move by McCain to show the depths of his loyalty to the party by smearing an innocent person. The only trouble for McCain is that his letter makes him seem like an angry wacko and hardly goes with his "bipartisan" image.


DC Drinking LiberallyDC for Democracy

by KCinDC on Wed Feb 08, 2006 at 10:43:50 AM EST

Re: And Lieberman Knifes Obama on Imus (none / 0)

Bingo Gertz


by Democraticavenger on Wed Feb 08, 2006 at 11:30:05 AM EST

Re: And Lieberman Knifes Obama on Imus (3.00 / 1)

Republicans have zero respect for rational, gentlemanly bipartisanship.  They like it, because it usually equals capitulation and it gives them cover to say that a Democrat supported it too if there's criticism.  

And a polite gentlemanly response to an attack just gets lost in the noise of TV talking heads spinning things rightward.  We need Democratic representatives who can fight with words. Effective, decisive thrusts and parries.  There's a difference between liking someone who is nice and wanting that person fighting on your behalf.  I like Obama, and I hope he learns how to fight.


by Gracchus for Senate on Wed Feb 08, 2006 at 11:39:27 AM EST

Re: And Lieberman Knifes Obama on Imus (3.00 / 1)

I would really like to see the transcripts before we make to harsh judgements.


http://coldwarliberalism.blogspot.com/
by ira13ping on Wed Feb 08, 2006 at 12:06:11 PM EST

Diyanu (none / 0)

This photo is enough.


543,895 votes
by Michael Bersin on Wed Feb 08, 2006 at 12:23:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Diyanu (none / 0)

What?? Do you realize that every democrat has a picture of them with bush in a equally "toolish" pose?  even the liberal heroes....


http://coldwarliberalism.blogspot.com/
by ira13ping on Sat Feb 11, 2006 at 05:05:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I agree (none / 0)

Frankly, even Matt's own description doesn't sound like Lieberman "knived Obama in the back."

There are some bloggers who have had it out for Lieberman for quite some time, and will hype up any so called misdeed by Lieberman to show that he's a traitor.  As such, I find their attacks on Lieberman presumptively incredible.

Let's see the transcript and decide for ourselves.


by JPhurst on Wed Feb 08, 2006 at 12:43:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I agree (1.00 / 1)

At first I couldn't understand why so much criticism of Lieberman misses the mark or is many times utterly baseless. I think I get it now. Many in the so called 'netroots' particularly despise Joe for his Iraq war support and want him out of office, but beyond some observations about him valuing bipartisanship too much and existing in a pre-Newt, pre-Norquist political mindset, there's not too much really stick him with. To compensate for this problem, many of his seething antagonists, most notably Kos and Matt here, instead rely on a scorched earth tactic similiar to those often run in GOP campaigns. Throw everything you can at Joe even if it's baseless & doesen't stick, take any innocuous quote of his and reframe it into the most comically negative light possible, keep up a consistent singular focus to keep up the meme that Lieberman is a malicious renegade who's constantly causing trouble and 'selling out' his own party.

The most recent addition to this strategy is the ridiculous one just conceieved by Matt Stoller where instead of spinning an issue as negatively as possible, he creates one out of thin air. He highlights the recent tiff between McCain & Obama and puncuates it by asking the bizarro question "How will Lieberman respond?" and creating an artificial choice of resonse between coming down against McCain...or, selling out a member of his own party. Lieberman speaks on the matter and the most damning thing he says about Obama is "He probably wished he made himself more clear!" which Matt interprets as "Lieberman knifes Obama in the back!"

Matt, anticipating some skepticism over whether some will interpret Lieberman's inoccuous remakr as 'knifing someone in the back' reminds us that the Senator who allegedly can't stop bashing & criticizing fellow Democrats is "a very nice & polite man" and some times you have to dig deep and interpret his words for what they really mean. Make no mistake says Matt, he's clearly made his choice.

The choice of course, that Matt invented just yesterday.


by Epitome23 on Wed Feb 08, 2006 at 11:13:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Surely, you jest? (none / 0)

...but beyond some observations about him valuing bipartisanship too much...

Bipartisanship? Bipartisanship? To have such you actually need two parties in the exchange. How flip of you to suggest that this mythical land actually exists, absent any evidence that the republicans and this administration engage in "bipartisanship". When they other side of the "bipartisan" divide doesn't play the game then his behavior only leaves sad lonely Joe the role of a rube or worse, a very much aware enabler. Neither is forgivable
543,895 votes
by Michael Bersin on Thu Feb 09, 2006 at 09:06:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And Lieberman Knifes Obama on Imus (none / 0)

Lieberman is a DINO through and through.  I wonder why he just doesn't switch political parties and be done with it?  Remember folks, Joementum was first out of his seat during the SOTU -- he could barely contain his joy and enthusiasm for every point Bush tried to make.  He's nauseating.


by Dartanyon on Wed Feb 08, 2006 at 12:23:08 PM EST

Re: And Lieberman Knifes Obama on Imus (none / 0)

I disagree.  Would a DINO favor the environment?  Would they be pro-choice?  No, a DINO would not.  I come from a state where most of the Dems vote Republican in November.  Why?  I don't know.

And one of the times that Joe stood up was right after a remark on Israel (the way that Jon Stewart spun it).


The Kentucky Democrat
by kydem on Wed Feb 08, 2006 at 01:33:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And Lieberman Knifes Obama on Imus (3.00 / 2)

>Would a DINO favor the environment?  Would they be pro-choice?  

If one comes from a state where the environment and choice are deal breakers for even Republicans, of course he would support them.  There is no downside.

He is a disgrace....as is any Democrat who attempts to excuse his behavior.


by nanorich on Wed Feb 08, 2006 at 01:49:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And Lieberman Knifes Obama on Imus (none / 0)

Maybe it will help Obama realize who his supporters and friends really are, and who they aren't.


__________________ The so-called, "War On Terror" IS Terrorim!
by liberal elite on Wed Feb 08, 2006 at 04:49:19 PM EST

Re: And Lieberman Knifes Obama on Imus (none / 0)

Considering the title of this post, the actual content is once again, rather underwhelming. He says it was a misunderstanding, and says Obama probably wishes he made himself clearer, where's the "Obama's mother wears army boots" remark?

As for this mysterious Senate Aid being cited as an authority, did this person hear something that we didn't?


by Epitome23 on Wed Feb 08, 2006 at 10:40:27 PM EST

Re: And Lieberman Knifes Obama on Imus (none / 0)

I guess we will never actually get the transcript from Matt.  Just Matt's "jist" of the matter.

What's particularly funny is that Matt admit's that Lieberman comes across as "mild mannered and nice" and that you have to be "aware of the context" to understand what a vicious "knife in the back" this is.

So let's review.

1)  We are allegedly supposed to hate Lieberman because he makes other Democrats look bad.

2)  People who are "in the know" like Matt and Markos can figure out the "subtext" of these remarks to show what a supposedly vicious betrayal this is.

3)  Yet the average person listening to Imus would not consider Lieberman to have stabbed Obama in the back.

4)  Still, this is supposed to be an example of how Lieberman makes other democrats look bad, because those oh so savvy analysts like Matt know what's going on.

In other words, forget about actual votes, or even actual perception.  Lieberman is bad because he doesn't satisfy the needs of people like the diarist and others in the liberal blogosphere, who basically just want to hear someone on the left tell them what they want to hear.  Better that you feel good and validated than you actually have candidates that most of America admires, right?


by JPhurst on Thu Feb 09, 2006 at 02:45:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Revealing (none / 0)

to the best of my knowledge, Matt hasn't posted a transcritpt yet.  Let's wait.  


http://coldwarliberalism.blogspot.com/
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