The Progressive Blogosphere Is So Punk Rock

This post has been brewing up for some time now. In fact, the only reason I never fully completed it until now is that I never thought the timing was exactly right. But now, in light of the news about the Ohio Senate race, and the netroots' reaction to it, suddenly it seems quite appropriate. My involvement in mainstream partisan politics is a relatively recent development. My parents are Republicans, much of my mother's family are Midwestern labor Democrats, and none of my friends has ever been overly political. From a pretty young age, I identified myself as a progressive. I was a social liberal like my parents, but much more of an economic idealist, with a healthy distrust of corporate power. At 17, I paid union dues as a waiter, but I didn't make a connection between that act and the fight, which I was heavily involved in, at my school to stop the school board from privatizing the janitorial staff. I did pretty well in my American politics and economics courses senior year, but my understanding of politics was incomplete at best. In fact, to the extent that I had any advanced political beliefs at all, it's a pretty safe bet that I picked them up from my involvement with the punk rock scene.

The punk scene is, as you can imagine, pretty liberal. And I'm continually struck by how many similarities I see between the scene and the netroots. Essentially, I think it comes down to the fact that the two cultures have very similar structures and aims. Punk rock (mind you, I'm including a wide variety of subgenres under this umbrella, from indie to hardcore to emo to pop-punk) is known for its do-it-yourself, DIY attitude. Kids wants to make music that doesn't necessarily fit in with what they're hearing on the radio. Rather than going out for auditions or spending hours on music education, they just get together with a bunch of their friends and start making noise. Eventually that noise develops into songs. And when a band has a a few songs, they don't wait for local talent shows or club showcases. They either pass a demo tape around to their friends or really go for broke, get a few other bands, rent a VFW hall, find someone with a crappy PA system, invite a bunch of their friends and their friends' friends, make some flyers, and put on a show.

They do it again, week after week, with a rotating cast of bands, until people start listening. The bands start playing small clubs instead of halls or basements. The good bands go into recording studios, make records, and go on tour with other bands from around the country in their exact same position. Of those, a choice few get noticed by national indie labels and college radio. Maybe even a few make it onto MTV2, into the pages of Alternative Press, or onto the Warped Tour. I'll admit things have changed a bit in the past few years. On the DIY recording front, boom boxes have given way to laptops pre-installed with Garage Band. Similarly, demo tapes have gone the way of the dodo, replaced first by CD-Rs, then by Napster'ed MP3s, and most recently (and efficiently) websites like MySpace and Pure Volume. But the fundamentals are still the same.

Are you seeing the similarities yet? Allow me to play Captain Obvious for you. Bloggers have thoughts and opinions they're not hearing expressed in the old fashioned media. Rather than submitting countless op-ed pieces that they know will be rejected, they gripe to their friends over e-mail. Eventually, they go to Blogger or Wordpress or Typepad or (here it is again) MySpace and start blogging. They e-mail links to friends and friends of friends or really go for broke, get a few other bloggers, pay for hosting a Scoop-based site, and invite a bunch of people to check out what they're writing.

This might all seem like a cute little comparison so far, but here's where things start getting important and the group dynamic comes into play. Some bloggers get recognized and some don't. Some comment and write diaries at the big sites, while others do their own thing, both groups ultimately hoping that people take notice and start taking them seriously. The most polished writers start having pieces linked to and highlighted by bigger bloggers and even the old fashioned media. Of those, a choice few start writing pieces for national magazines, essays for books, or get noticed by progressive talk radio. Maybe even a few make it on to MSNBC, into the pages of Newsweek, or onto the staff of an establishment political campaign.

Unfortunately, this is where Chris's idea of an activist class war comes into play. Suddenly our ebullient little scene isn't all basement shows and singalongs anymore. Bands are getting bigger and their fans are accusing them of selling out. Even bands stuck in the middle, still working day jobs to pay the rent, are being attacked by smaller bands for not being able to do more to get them on bigger bills. Forget that it was a big band doing the medium band a favor that got them on the tour to begin with. The small band wants to know why they're being sold out and left behind by their backstabbing former friends. And sometimes, a medium-to-big band will get dropped by their indie label for reasons that aren't all that clear. The band's fans will vow never to buy another release from that label again. Forgotten is the fact that the label that dropped them is run by other outsiders not much different from themselves.

I've seen this in the punk scene and now I'm seeing it now in the progressive blogosphere. It's as sad to me as it was predictable. This 'us versus them' mentality (or perhaps 'you versus us') is interesting to see at this level, because we tend to inflate everything beyond its actual importance. For example, media stories about the progressive blogosphere almost uniformly describe us as all being of the same political persuasion, holding the exact same opinions about everything and demanding adherence to a party line. When you see this, you might ask yourself how they can say that. They can say it because they think it. And they think it because they're largely not paying attention. While that may be frustrating, it's also an important reminder that the divide between bloggers and blog readers is ultimately not that wide. We need to come to a better understanding that the things that divide us are nowhere near as important as the things that unite us. We're all not going to agree on everything, but that's what makes us different from the rightist blogosphere -- we don't suffer under the same regime of "tight internal controls on message." In other words, at the end of the day, we're all still punk rock.



Display:


But then again (none / 0)

Punk Rock kinda ate itself. I hope that this isn't the 1983 of blogging, cause in twenty years I'll want to hang myself.


by Lucas O'Connor on Tue Feb 14, 2006 at 07:17:47 PM EST

Re: But then again (none / 0)

punk never disapeared - it may have changed in and out of mainstream popularity - but has been steadily building since the 1960s


by Scott G on Tue Feb 14, 2006 at 08:11:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: But then again (none / 0)

Building into what though? I know that it's more popular now, but it's also more crappy.


by Lucas O'Connor on Wed Feb 15, 2006 at 11:16:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

What would D. Boon do? (none / 0)

link

The Minutemen's catalytic philosophy--that "punk is whatever we make it to be," that any group of kids could pick up instruments and make artistic, innovative, impossible music without worrying about cliques, categories, or condemnation; even working-class kids from San Pedro like Boon and Watt--is the greatest band philosophy of all time.

This, to me, is the ideal of blogs as well.  


my web log.
by matty fred on Tue Feb 14, 2006 at 07:24:48 PM EST

Re: The Progressive Blogosphere Is So Punk Rock (none / 0)

Ah, let me share a little age with you. In the olden days when there was only Perry Mason, Disneyworld The Sat night Fights on tv, those who wanted to get together and be heard also used music. Piano bars, singalongs, Kingston Trio, Peter, Paul & Mary. Very small world. But they kept singing and they kept choosing their venues. They shared growing pains, made stupid appearances & said stupid things but they represented, for their time, a vast unheard piece of the public. My point is, we all have to chose our venues, learn from our mistakes and keep on singing.


by mainsailset on Tue Feb 14, 2006 at 07:25:49 PM EST

Bad Analogy (3.00 / 1)

You basically set this up as a "sour grapes" analogy (I didn't make it and you did...wah!). If you want to keep with the analogy, you'd have to make it a situation where the dominant musical format was show tunes. The the punkers "crash the gate" (irony utterly intended), sell a bunch of albums based on the punk format. The after that they use their shiny new record contract to record...show tunes. Then they belittle everyone for listening to punk, and try to get them to buy show tunes albums.

But really, the analogy odesn't even hold up because music is trivial in the end. The public's right to vote and decide on their own leaders isn't. If the cream of the "netroots" "crashes the gate", and then starts agreeing with the already existing establishment that thinks they are entitled to tell their constituents what to do, they aren't just "selling out", they're being paid with the coin of our basic rights.

No comparison.


by ElitistJohn on Tue Feb 14, 2006 at 07:42:19 PM EST

Re: Bad Analogy (none / 0)

If you want to keep with the analogy, you'd have to make it a situation where the dominant musical format was show tunes. The the punkers "crash the gate" (irony utterly intended), sell a bunch of albums based on the punk format. The after that they use their shiny new record contract to record...show tunes. Then they belittle everyone for listening to punk, and try to get them to buy show tunes albums.

Have you listened to KISS and Good Charlotte? You described pretty much what happened.


by Lucas O'Connor on Tue Feb 14, 2006 at 07:45:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bad Analogy (none / 0)

Art is trivial. Great. Tell that to the artists.


by Scott Shields on Tue Feb 14, 2006 at 09:02:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bad Analogy (none / 0)

Happily. In a relative sense it is trivial. The right to vote and have some control over the laws which you are expected to live under vs "God Save the Queen"? No contest.

Inan absolute sense, no. But in a relative sense in thsi case, without question.


by ElitistJohn on Tue Feb 14, 2006 at 09:18:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Progressive Blogosphere Is So Punk Rock (none / 0)

I don't like punk rock.

I think your analogy sounds more like libertarians.  

I hate Goldwater Republicans as much as I do Pat Robertson Republicans.

If you want some nifty little analogies, I think that the sociology of political communities resembles the sociology of religious communities.  Think John Calvin breaking with Rome then having Michael Servetus burned at the stake, or the Pilgrims escaping the repressiveness of the Church of England so they can set up their own repressive regime.  Those on the left (and the right) defend a particular political platform as the "one true faith" and sometimes appear more interested in smiting the nearby heretics who schism on a few specific points than the far away heathens who completely deny the basic tenets.


Things You Don't Talk About in Polite Company: Religion, Politics, the Occasional Intersection of Both
by Anthony de Jesus on Tue Feb 14, 2006 at 07:53:24 PM EST

Re: The Progressive Blogosphere Is So Punk Rock (none / 0)

I'm not talking about philosophy. I'm talking about social structure.

Nice that no one seems to get what I'm talking about because they're hostile to a form of music. God, what a waste of my time this post was. Glad I spent the better part of my day working on it.


by Scott Shields on Tue Feb 14, 2006 at 09:01:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Progressive Blogosphere Is So Punk Rock (none / 0)

I love how player haters come out to criticize this excellent post.  How not-like punk at all.


by Matt Stoller on Tue Feb 14, 2006 at 09:04:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Progressive Blogosphere Is So Punk Rock (none / 0)

Scott-

Your post is excellent, and definitely explains the dynamics of the netroots.  Keep up the great work.

Also,

My buddy is in a band called the Pulsar Triyo, you should definitely check them out.  Maybe a little jazzy for you, but I bet you know good music when you hear it.

And Death Cab for Cutie is playing Cameron Indoor Stadium ths semester, I am very excited.

-Ben


by rangerkeeper on Tue Feb 14, 2006 at 10:47:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

you don't have to like Punk rock to agree... (none / 0)

I happen to, and I happen to come from the same place as Scott and I completely and totally agree.

-C.


by neutron on Wed Feb 15, 2006 at 02:01:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

In the words of Jello Biafra - Become The Media (none / 0)

Ok so this is my first comment on MYDD - why? Someone floated this article my way - It does speak to many of the struggles of Punk activism and what many punk rockers have set out to do.

DIY is a powerful force - similar to the constant desire to fight political battles with pure passion.  While I do not have a tattoos and piercings, I  relate to the DIY ethic and have pulled myself up by the bootstraps while helping my friends.

Similarity to the blogs....punk is not always about the (music) - it is about the statement! Raw passion and believable honesty wins out over guitar virtuoso any day.   In other words, blogs that have true integrity will survive (may not get hugely popular - but they will survive) in a credible way - and have real meaning to their readership.

Although with raw passion - there is always some anger and a more dramatic struggle, fights and friction - but that is just raw energy that is needed to bring about change!  Don't we all wish a certain JK had a little more raw passion!!!!

Nonetheless, I hope the blogger community is not as narrow minded as some of the punk community toward appreciating the different styles and struggles - (there is the real issue on the left).

Biafra - once said become the media in anyway possible (sing about it, write about, produce a tv show, radio show etc...) I took his words to heart years ago and used to write my own fanzines (small press magazines) - I view blogs as the DIY extension of the fanzine and a way to keep the message moving forward in a real way -  You are all just a lot smarter and do more research than i ever did for my fanzine - but my layout was ten times cooler!!!

A quick note on Punkvoter.com:
I was fortunate enough to leave politics for a while and engage with punk rock musicians to remember what that 18-20year old raw passion is really like! I  found that there is absolutely nothing wrong with dreaming of a better tomorrow -wearing you opinions on your sleeve and truly enjoying your time signing and dancing while fighting the battles.  Punkvoter.com was an experiment in pushing the limit and giving kids real information on why things were clearly ying and yang issues in 2004.  Someone needed to do it on a level that was credible and real - and not afraid to throw a punch!  I wish Kerry had as much energy in the battle as the thousands of punk musicians who held their nose and worked for him.  The punks put it all on the line in a hope of a better tomorrow - (not bad for a group that is supposed to distain voting in the first place)  Fat Mike did not spearhead this movement for personal gain and wanted nothing politically out of it - It cost him a small fortune, but he was the right guy to make it happen - because of his honesty integrity and credibility!

Many blogs are starting to get this feel of real integrity in what they are doing - and the raw passion of how they reflect on issues.  Those are the blogs I know I can trust!


by Scott G on Tue Feb 14, 2006 at 08:08:14 PM EST

Fuck yeah!! (none / 0)

Kos is a poser!! Yeah!!!

Okay, not really. But the ol' rockabilly punk in me sure did like this post. If I could have gotten away with it, I would have done Street Prophets in fanzine style.


by pastordan on Tue Feb 14, 2006 at 09:10:16 PM EST

Analogy (none / 0)

...or spending hours on music education, they just get together with a bunch of their friends and start making noise...

At first reading (with my musician hat on) I was ready to tear you a new one. After thinking about it - yeah, the analogy is right on.

There are a lot of people in the blogosphere making a lot of noise without the benefit of experience or an education - and much of their noise is futile. But, every once in a while someone hits the big time.


543,895 votes
by Michael Bersin on Tue Feb 14, 2006 at 09:23:27 PM EST

Re: The Progressive Blogosphere Is So Punk Rock (none / 0)

The two things that Punk and the progressive blogosphere have in common are that they are both on the left and they are both decentralized. But the similarities end there.

The progressive blogosphere is decentralized because centralization has failed, not because of some foolish anti-centralization ideology. Those naive commitments only produce hypocrisy, like championing Punk ideals while encouraging people to join Myspace and fill out what are essentially demographic profiles for Rupert Murdoch's advertisers. Most progressive bloggers have the sense to avoid pouring money directly into GOP coffers when they have to pay the bills.

Punk is unrealistic, hypocritical, self-indulgent and juvenile because it has nothing really at stake. It idealizes the plight of the lower class even though most punks come from comfortable middle or upper-middle class backgrounds and have never really had to endure hardship beyond MTV 'oppression'. Punks prefer symbolic but ultimately meaningless gestures that impress your friends and provide emotional satisfaction, over more pedestrian but less 'radical' means that actually work.

And now its disciples want to rebrand and co-opt the progressive blogosphere to cover over Punk's crumbling facade.


by MrOnion on Tue Feb 14, 2006 at 09:54:46 PM EST

Re: The Progressive Blogosphere Is So Punk Rock (3.00 / 1)

Oh yeah, I forgot there is no reason to empathize with the lower class or the dispossessed or the disenfrancished or those who cannot speak for thesmelves because one is born higher up on the social ladder. There are no doubt self indulgent hypocrites in every scene, the punk scene, such as it is has more than a few, as well as a bunch of idealists who probably don't know shit about shit, but you are doing a disservice to many people who allign themselves with the punk rock scene who are genuine people who much like people who frequent the blogoshphere, ARE DYING FOR CHANGE. Question their methods, not their integrity.


by Alexxx on Tue Feb 14, 2006 at 11:06:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Progressive Blogosphere Is So Punk Rock (none / 0)

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to see that people want to get involved with progressive politics, but I get a feeling like there's a lot of judgemental, self-righteous people in the punk community. Appropriating another group's accomplishments in the name of Punk based on superficial similarities could be seen as arrogant.

Contrary to your assertion that Punk rock empathizes with the lower class, in practice, Punk rock often trivializes their real problems by putting on a big dramatic show about having to put up with an absence of authenticity, vitality and meaning in middle-class American suburbs and jobs, and then pretending that it's somehow equivalent (or worse) than not having a home or job at all.


by MrOnion on Wed Feb 15, 2006 at 03:16:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Progressive Blogosphere Is So Punk Rock (none / 0)

First of all, I have a feeling you don't really know what you're talking about when you criticize the punk rock subculture. I think you're confusing mall punk with real punk, which is unfortunately understandable these days.

Secondly, criticizing people for using MySpace because Murdoch owns it is sort of lame. People had been using it for quite some before Newscorp bought it. I should assume from your comment that you suggest boycotting The Simpsons, Futurama, anything on Fox Sports, and any Twentieth Century Fox-produced films, then? More power to you if you're that pure, but I don't think it's necessary to go quite that far.


by Scott Shields on Wed Feb 15, 2006 at 11:05:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Progressive Blogosphere Is So Punk Rock (none / 0)

...criticizing people for using MySpace because Murdoch owns it is sort of lame.

I don't disagree with that. My point is that according to Punk rock standards, signing up with a service owned by a giant megacorporation is not punk rock, helping a giant megacorporation sell advertising is not punk rock, and encouraging your listeners to fill out demographic profiles is definitely not punk rock. You are saying that the DIY spirit and Punk rock ethos still lives on MySpace, I say that the Punk-Myspace phenomenon is sign of the abandonment of those principles, which is a consequence of their unrealistic nature.


by MrOnion on Wed Feb 15, 2006 at 02:14:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

mall punk v real punk (none / 0)

you know scott, i have to agree with mr. onion on this.  even back in the late 70s during the punk emergence in england, a large chunk of those punk rockers were lazy rich kids who thought it was "cool" to be poor.  the sex pistol hangers-on are a good example of this.

ironically, the working-class english punks (with a few notable exceptions) tended to be much more right wing.  take ian curtis for example (yea yea, you can say i'm stretching by lumping joy division in with punk rock, but hey if you're gonna put blondie in there i'm counting joy division).

in america it was a bit different, although there were still two very different social classes participating in the movement: your real gutter punks and your rich kids.  

moving into the mid to late 80s you really saw the emergence of shameless mall punks. kids walking around wearing $200 docs, etc etc, who really couldn't care less about the working class (for the most part); they were just dressing like because it was semi-underground and shocking to their suburban parents.  and you still had the working class punks, with a few notable west and east coast exceptions, they were right wingers.  just look to 'skin music in the south and mountain west.

nowadays, i'd say that punk has been so co-opted that it's almost not worth thinking about.  sure there are still some good scenes out there and i still buy punk albums on smaller labels, but what most people think of as punk today is shit like good charlotte.  green day is one of the lucky ones who've managed to retain their punk sensibility by making it big.  

and maybe that's what you're trying to say; that the lefty blogs can still retain that outsider sensibility.  to be honest i am beginning to seriously doubt that.  and i'm not crying "sell out" (not yet anyway), but i am starting to see some trends that i'm not too happy with.  if it ever comes to that point, i'll be the first person to say "fuck that" and call people out.  because you can't try to change the establishment without being co-opted in some way (ie, "becoming part of it").  very very few people can successfully retain their core beings once they've "crashed the gates".  ya know what i'm saying?

but anyway, great post.  i loved it. i think this is my favorite thing you've posted since you joined the crew.  plus it gave me a chance to wax philosophical about punk rock, one of my favorite things.  i still have a punk rock heart, and perhaps that's why i'm not one of these gate-crashers that everyone's so pissed off at these days. i know that there's a firm line between me and the establishment, and to be honest i prefer it out here in the hinterlands working as an agitator.  i won't be co-opted and i won't sell out.  i just hope that the gate crashers can  retain the same integrity.


Visit us at TexasKAOS, where we're taking Texas back!
by annatopia on Wed Feb 15, 2006 at 04:08:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Progressive Blogosphere Is So Punk Rock (none / 0)

Scott, it was definitely not a waste of a post. I've thought much the same for a long while.


by Alexxx on Tue Feb 14, 2006 at 10:54:55 PM EST

Re: The Progressive Blogosphere Is So Punk Rock (none / 0)

Ditto.


by paul minot on Tue Feb 14, 2006 at 11:34:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Progressive Blogosphere Is So Punk Rock (none / 0)

Having played in a few punk bands over the years I would have to agree to a certain extent.

I think the problem, here, though, is that a whole lot of people don't really know what you mean by punk.

A lot of people just automatically connect it with "that awful racket." Now they may just insert whatever band they think is an awful racket in there, but that's how it is.

When the term "punk" really started to take off, well, it included bands like The Ramones, Talking Heads and Blondie. I don't know anybody who might be able to call The Talking Heads or Blondie an awful racket. (maybe the Ramones, but really...) Of course, now, people are calling VU proto-punk, so there you go. They did actually create an awful racket. I happen to love an awful racket myself.

Punk is not just an awful racket, nor is it necessarily a progressive political statement. Unless you consider the DIY element, among other things, of it progressive (which I do).

But then look, that's how these narratives always work, isn't it? The mass-media are always trying to co-opt any message in what ever way they can. What then, is the message of punk? It's not "Bonzo Goes to Bitburg" or any Dead Kennedys lyric, it's something else.

This is what you're trying to get at, I think.

There's always an undercurrent or a group or a scene or an attitude (there's no good term to pin it down, they quickly get co-opted) like this.

It flourished in the art scene in Germany in the 30s. It flourished in the Beat scene in the 50s. It flourished in the free-jazz and garage and to some extent the hippy scenes in the 60s. It flourished in the punk scene in the 70s and 80s. It may have been the same in the "post-punk" scene in the 90s.

Now we have something else that's a challenge to the status-quo (for want of a better word).

I'm not one to think that the blogosphere will be able to tear down the current stranglehold the mass-media have on the current culture. It's certainly possible. But it's important to realize that it could be part of a long line of occurrences in modern history.

If you want a good read about this sort of thing read "Lipstick Traces: A Secret History of the 20th Century" by Greil Marcus.

phat


by phatass on Tue Feb 14, 2006 at 11:34:20 PM EST

Re: The Progressive Blogosphere Is So Punk Rock (none / 0)

Given the day's news about Paul Hackett, it seems to me that the problem is not with other blogs but with the Democratic Party.  

A lot of blogs represent a specific progressive group within the party--tending to be younger people who are not yet bound up in pre-established relationships with people who have been defining the party for the past 40 years.

So, the question for me is not really how to stop all the fighting between the indie labels, but how do we take down the big label?  

If we want to see our politics realized, we have to change the way the party operates.


by Reece on Wed Feb 15, 2006 at 12:52:02 AM EST

Re: The Progressive Blogosphere Is So Punk Rock (none / 0)

Can you show me the figures where the blogosphere is mostly younger people?

I recall, but can't find, figures showing just the opposite.

phat


by phatass on Wed Feb 15, 2006 at 01:11:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Progressive Blogosphere Is So Punk Rock (none / 0)

Not that the blogosphere is mostly younger people, but that it tends to be younger, meaning that on average people who read and comment on blogs are younger than people who don't.

And I thought I saw a poll here on mydd a few days ago showing just that.  But, like you, I can't seem to find it.


by Reece on Wed Feb 15, 2006 at 09:13:00 AM EST

Re: The Progressive Blogosphere Is So Punk Rock (3.00 / 0)

Way to sell out to MyDD, Scott!  I remember when you were just one of the regular guys over at BlueJersey.  I guess the fame got to your head and you forgot your roots.  I'm never using any Scoop-based blog again!


Rudy Giuliani hates firefighters. And puppies.
by Fran for Dean on Wed Feb 15, 2006 at 11:08:52 AM EST


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