Moving Away from the 1960s Left

I've greatly enjoyed the discussions on the 1960s left and our movement.  It's a complicated story with lots of swirls and eddies, and since we're all in the thick of what we're doing, it's hard to have any sense of distance.  It's not clear that the internet left matters, but I believe that it's important to know who we are and where we come from as we concurrently develop a vision for the country we want to live in.  As a nascent movement, we could flame out or not rise to the level of modern challenges, but hey, that's life.  Sometimes stuff, even really cool stuff, doesn't work.  

First I'd like to state a couple of assumptions.  This is not a '1960s kidz' versus '2000 kidz' pissing contest.  While there are inherently generational gaps in how I'm describing what's going on, I am not representing the internet left as a youth movement confined to one generation.  The white part of the 1960s left movement was youth-based, but this one includes lots of people of all ages, including many who got their start in the 1960s.  I am  young for a blogger, at 28 - there are plenty of people working in this movement who are much older.  In fact some commenters who bristle at how I characterize their memories are themselves part of the new progressive movement.  I'm not just making this up to encompass as many people as possible.  If you take the internet left as a coherent group, just look at some of the major concentrations - Moveon members are not young, and Dailykos readers are not young either.  I was at Yearly Kos, and I was a whipper snapper.  Certainly that's not representative, but still I don't see major college organizing centers today as catalytic to what we're doing, unlike in the 1960s when the Students for a Democratic Society or Student Non Violent Coordinating Committee played major leadership roles.  Maybe that's because we have the internet and the 1960s generation had pop culture, though I would trace it differently.  

Second, in terms of capturing the political system, the New Left, the liberals, and radical organizers of the 1960s failed, and the New Right of that period won.  Culturally it's a very different story (they lost, we won), but institutionally speaking right-wingers have as much or more power than they did in the 1960s, though it's manifested less through cross-burning and more through extreme ghettoization, inequality, a fear-based health care system, and radically higher economic risk for the middle class.  We can't pretend that this isn't the case just because it makes the right feel good.  The 1960s left lost, and politically speaking in terms of strategy they should NOT be emulated.  

This is not a universally held assumption.  This comment from Frenchman and this one from Paul Rosenberg bristle at this idea; these two insightful and brilliant commenters are defending the purity of the 'Dirty Fucking Hippy', and point out that this archetype has been mischaracterized for all these years.  Rosenberg argues that bloggers need to dream big and stop following the ins and outs of the 2008 race - in this they should imitate the DFHs.  I don't really understand why 2008 shouldn't be a vehicle for debate over vision and big dreams, but I do have a question for those who want to defend the 1960s left and the strategies that generation pursued.  Just where have all the DFH's gone?  I'll tell you where they haven't gone - into the electoral system.  Do you know who the 1960s left created in terms of successful political leadership? Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, Joe Lieberman, and John Kerry.  And those are the best of the bunch - sitting under them is an entire superstructure of less talented or less fortunate political figures who aspire to their place.  Those are transactional leaders, a far cry from the transcendental revolutionary ardor of the time focusing on social justice.  The 1960s left-wing didn't just cool of ardor, it disappeared and allowed its legacy to be captured by triangulating reflexively anti-liberal political creatures who trip up their immense talent with caution and big money politics.  And it's ironic, because it's not necessary to do this anymore within the liberal culture that the 1960s New Left helped create.  

The failures of the 1960s left are legion - from splinter groups supporting North Vietnam and third world tyrannical revolutionary movements and castigating America as an evil force to not working within the electoral process to venerating flashy conflict over organizing to valuing cultural conflict over persuasion.  And yes, the right-wing likes to use these memes to discredit left-wingers as unAmerican, but that doesn't mean that these stereotypes had no basis in reality.  They did, and they were excesses of a minority of the New Left that felt betrayed after years of organizing work.  But they did exist, and the later abandonment of politics hardened these youthful passionate excesses into serious branding and institutional obstacles to liberalism .  Even if the unAmerican 1960s left was all PR, the problem is still one of abandonment - PR needed to be rebutted, and it wasn't.  There was no Atrios in 1971, just technocratic liberalism.  Our right flank was totally exposed.  

I'm not trying to frame this as the right does, that New Left radicals were funded by Communists and hate America.  They weren't.  There was some excess.  Lots of people did and do stupid things.  The war in Vietnam was much much worse than smoking dope and throwing a pie in someone's face on TV.  And Bohemianism and attacks on radical leftism and liberalism go back to World War I, and prior to that.  But so does economic populism and anti-corporatism, yet the PR battle of 1970-2000 was left to those who characterized the left as a bunch of pot-smoking lazy dilettantes and the right as manly soldier fathers.  I don't care that DFHs existed, and I don't doubt that a bunch of them thoughtfully made critiques of contemporary politics (though many were apolitical young people that just wanted sex and fun).  What frustrates is the abandonment, the capitulation to the reaction.  It was as if Nixon won, and so everyone went home.

The consequences of the abandonment were severe.  Where is the defense or institutional memory of the War on Poverty?  John Edwards is running with poverty as a major theme, but I don't hear any defense of LBJs masterstroke, or that of government as an organizing force.  Indeed the left-wing intellectuals that should have emerged and forcefully argued for liberal politics against a right-wing onslaught just seem to have disappeared.  Now of course I'm not going to paper over the civil rights struggle or feminism, but where was the 1960s left when the crack epidemic was destroying urban America?  Why is Joe Lieberman still allowed to tread on his few weeks in Mississippi in the 1960s?    

The failure of the 1960s left goes back to two structural weaknesses - one is the assumption that liberals, radicals, and Democrats all made, that America was post-scarcity.  The failure to understand that economic security allowed a political left led directly to the right-wing manipulation of economic risk to our current situation.  The students of the New Left and the liberals of the time just assumed material progress, which left us unprepared for oil shocks.  But instead of coming up with new ideas, the New Left turned inward and the liberals were scared away from political combat.  You can see this today in how the new and progressive movement is basically without institutional help, mentorship, or funding.  Retreat to academia and the personal sphere happened because the 1960s left ignored economics and failed to defend the public as a meaningful concept.  So when a pugnaciously liberal populist force emerges, we ally with people like Jim Webb and not groups like NARAL or checklist liberals like Chuck Schumer.

The second biggest structural flaw was failing to coopt the liberal establishment, the big institutions.  With the exception of unions (which have turned sharply more liberal), potentially liberal institutions - big foundations, media, government, progressive corporate entities - are all either conservative or cautiously technocratic.  The lack of discussion over the War on Poverty, which is accepted as a failure even though it was not, contrasts deeply with the incessant carping about Vietnam.  When Nixon took the air out of that tire, the New Left had nothing.  The right-wing in the 1960s through the 1990s focused on institutional takeover, which is why many of us see them as people to be emulated and why we see the 1960s left as a group of good-hearted people that just didn't step up to their own ambitions.

Todd Gitlin, who many of you suggested I read, and his passage on page 436 of 'The Sixties: Years of Hope, Days of Rage', discusses this phenomenon.

The odds have been against the Left in laissez-faire-loving, race-divided, history-burying America from the start.  The two-party system, solidified by law, militates against the ideological margins - even as the parties lose their hold on the voters.  The New Left, like its predecessors, failed to create lasting political forms; when the SDS was torn apart, so was the chance for continuity.  In the Seventies, affinity group models of participatory democracy helped discredit Leninist politics, but often at the price of discrediting leadership and lucid debate altogether.  Whipsawed between anarchism and Leninism, the New Left failed to produce the political leaders one might have expected of a movement so vast; it devalued too much intelligence, was too ambivalent abut personal prowess.  The millennial, all-or-nothing moods of the Sixties proved to be poor training for practical politics.  The premium the movement placed on the glories and agonies of the pure existential will ill equipped many of us to slog away in coalitions in a society crisscrossed by divisions, a society not cleanly polarized along a single moral axis, a society not poised on the edge of radical change.  Therefore, for both long-standing and recent reasons, a substantial Left has been conspicuous by its absence since the McGovern debacle.  When Nixon and then Reagan went too far in tier efforts to damage or circumvent legitimate opposition, and suffered the crippling of their war-making powers, there no was Left to say: These are the consequences of imperial passion run amok.  With its moderating genius, the political system worked to contain the scandals as matters of lawbreaking, bad judgment, bad character, shoddy administration.

Gitlin is wrong in certain respects, but the book was published in 1987 and at that time few could foresee the rise of the extreme right.  What I sort of hope we can do is acknowledge that the left of the 1960s failed in some very serious ways, and move forward from there in not repeating those mistakes.  If you want to talk vision, the 1960s left could 'feel' politics with the best of them, but if you want to talk solid institutional structures, it's the New Right or the radical organizers of the 1930s who are the right model.  They created a movement that allowed people to be liberal or conservative even after they started families, to build their participation in the public sphere into their economics and their lives.  Now of course as a child of the 1980s, I was apolitical until 2002, so it's not like I'm blameless.  None of us are.  And the point isn't to cast blame, since hey, we can all be part of this newfangled cool internet progressive thingy and all of us are going to have to pitch in if we are going to dodge very angry Arctic ice.  And there's a persuasive argument that the internet was built by progressive radicals from the 1960s who went to Silicon Valley, that the culture of the time made strides that I am overlooking.  Still, that Arctic ice is very angry.

Anyway, I just want us to know our history.  Thoughts?  Comments?



Display:


Re: Moving Away from the 1960s Left (3.00 / 1)

"Second, in terms of capturing the political system, the New Left, the liberals, and radical organizers of the 1960s failed."

Nope...they won...Civil Rights, Voting Rights, School Desegregation, Miranda Rights, Warren Court decisions, Environmental movement and creation of the EPA...all the way to the impeachment of Nixon (a correct use of impeachment).

All that set the country on the right path all the way to the 1980's.

No movement lasts forever and we have been in the darkness of the right wing Republicans since 1980 but you have to say the 1960's and 70's were a success as far as the liberal agenda.

Just ask the right wing Republicans who ran against it and who still rail against the bulwark of liberalism built during those decades.


by BrionLutz on Sun Dec 31, 2006 at 02:14:29 PM EST

Re: Moving Away from the 1960s Left (none / 0)

Nixon was not impeached.  He resigned, was pardoned, and that was considered a highly moral act that the left accepted as legitimate instead of the truly monstrous mistake it turned out to be.


by Matt Stoller on Sun Dec 31, 2006 at 02:28:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Moving Away from the 1960s Left (3.00 / 2)

"Nixon was not impeached.  He resigned."

Puleeze...Nixon resigned because he was going to be impeached.

"He resigned, was pardoned, and that was considered a highly moral act that the left accepted as legitimate instead of the truly monstrous mistake it turned out to be."

No that is totally wrong as the retrospect on Gerry Ford notes...Ford's reasons for pardoning Nixon was not to justify Nixon's crimes but to move the nation  past it.

Question was did the 60's liberals win and they did...winning arguably the biggest battles in US politics since US Civil War.

The right wing did not take over until 1980 so 60's liberals had a 20 year track record of major liberal victories from Civil Rights to Environment.

Right wing Republicans today and still trying to get past many of the protections put in place in that era.


by BrionLutz on Sun Dec 31, 2006 at 02:35:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Agree. n/t (none / 0)


by Coral on Mon Jan 01, 2007 at 10:25:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Moving Away from the 1960s Left (none / 0)

"a highly moral act that the left accepted as legitimate"

It cost Ford re-election, so I don't think you can say it was "accepted." As the right has steadily increased its power over political information and narrative, the pardon gradually became "accepted."


miasmo.com
by miasmo on Sun Dec 31, 2006 at 02:48:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I don't think it did. (none / 0)

   I believe Ford's infamous Poland comment sunk the ship.


Jim Oberweis
by cilerder86 on Sun Dec 31, 2006 at 03:28:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Wait a minute. (none / 0)

Aren't you one of the people arguing against impeaching Bush?  "Don't impeach Bush for torture and war crimes", but impeach Nixon for B&E?

We did win.  We just didn't drive a stake through their hearts.  We didn't know we were dealng with The Terminator (in more ways than one).  Do I want you to repeat the 60s? (Please never the cruel joke called the 70s.)  Hell no, I want you to learn from it and do better.  We just yelled and screamed and made the biggest nuisance we could.  The netroots have political savvy and money.  I want you to kick their asses and to finish them off - for good - this time.  Get it?


Follow the money
by dkmich on Sun Dec 31, 2006 at 07:48:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wait a minute. (3.00 / 1)

No, I favor impeachment.


by Matt Stoller on Mon Jan 01, 2007 at 06:03:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Moving Away from the 1960s Left (3.00 / 1)

and that was considered a highly moral act that the left accepted as legitimate instead of the truly monstrous mistake it turned out to be.

Matt, 'the left' (whoever that is) never accepted the pardon of Nixon as legitimate. I do not know anyone who I would consider left who does. Indeed the ordinary citizens I know who lived through that time and whose politics have always been 'left' (and who, incidently, despise the 'centrist' Democrats for the precise same reasons they despised conservative Southern Democrats and spineless self serving assholes like Chuck Schumer, who is not a liberal)


by colleen on Mon Jan 01, 2007 at 10:40:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Moving Away from the 1960s Left (none / 0)

Uh...no. Actually most of the heavy lifing on that was done in the late 50's, early 60's at the latest. Brown vs Board, the March on Washington, etc...

You want heros on these issues, take a look at the long ignored Silent Generation. The Boomers were still in short pants watching Captain Space Zoomer or whatever.


by ElitistJohn on Sun Dec 31, 2006 at 08:25:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Moving Away from the 1960s Left (none / 0)

The heaviest lifting on school desegregation was the busing battle of the 70's. That was national, whereas Brown vs. Board affected only the South, by and large. It's also a more ambiguous issue, and one that is still controversial and  therefore still relevant.


by bento on Sun Dec 31, 2006 at 10:46:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Moving Away from the 1960s Left (3.00 / 0)

Actually, no, the heavy lifting was done in the 1960's.  The 1970's were largely reactionary and/or overreaching.  The Vietnam War ended badly for the Left with the sour taste of radicalism in the mouth of Americans who had grown to oppose the war for mainstream reasons.  The ERA lost.  And busing, actually helped to hasten "white flight".  Much the same problems as the neo-cons today.  A small and powerful self-obsessed minority tries to push abstract (and largely faulty) ideology on to an unprepared public, ends up overrreaching, and turning everyone off, including their own allies.  Sound familiar?  This is far different than the successful and largely coalitional and practical social justice victories of the 1960's channeled through a message and action around equality and opportunity, not "I'm gonna force you to adopt my ideology".  True progressivism (and effective progressivism) concentrates on EVOKING people's conscience, not forcing ideology down others' throats.  That is where the leadership is lacking right now on the left: critical, moldy-Marxist reactionaries and triangulating opportunists, but now some promise of a unbowed, practical, and inspired diverse grass-roots that has faith that if you offer a better alternative and let people taste it, you can create change.  


by citizenzeus on Sun Dec 31, 2006 at 11:54:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Moving Away from the 1960s Left (none / 0)

I suppose this depends on how you define "heavy" lifting. I would characterise it not by the desirability of  the outcome - which is not what "heavy" suggests - but by the fierceness of the opposition. By that criterion, busing definitely qualifies, like it or not, and I'm not sure I do (I grew up in black majority and plurality schools, but not as a consequence of busing).

In broader terms, though, the environmental movement is basically a product of the early seventies. Since global warming and sustainability are questions of survival, I think their importance rather trumps anything else the sixties were up to.


by bento on Mon Jan 01, 2007 at 12:34:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Moving Away from the 1960s Left (none / 0)

"In broader terms, though, the environmental movement is basically a product of the early seventies."

EPA was established in 1970 after a decade (the 60's) of environmental activism.

The EPA and the environmental regulatory changes were certainly one of the great successes of the "60's left"...though Civil Rights Act of 1964 is the key, the 2nd US Civil War and the Union won again.

Time wise, the time of the "60's left" runs from 1960-80.


by BrionLutz on Mon Jan 01, 2007 at 12:33:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Moving Away from the 1960s Left (none / 0)

The heavy lift was passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the subsequent integration and voting rights battles that followed.

The 60's liberals sacrificed power, giving up the segregationist South to the Republicans in order to make the biggest leap forward for the US since the Civil War.


by BrionLutz on Mon Jan 01, 2007 at 02:07:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Heavy lifting on civil rights (none / 0)

You have to trace the development of the Civil Rights & Voting Rights acts back to the dogged, persistent, and devoted work of many black activists (working with white progressives), basically from the end of the Civil War. The NAACP legal teams, and activists who gave their lives in the segregationist South.

Still I don't think those acts would have passed Congress without the death of JFK and Johnson's determination to enact them.

So many people contributed that it is impossible to point to just one or two people.


by Coral on Mon Jan 01, 2007 at 10:32:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Moving Away from the 1960s Left (none / 0)

When the oldest boomer was 19.

Yeah, I'm sure that wave of college freshmen and teenagers was critical to the cause in 64.


by ElitistJohn on Sun Jan 28, 2007 at 03:14:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Moving Away from the 1960s Left (none / 0)

"When the oldest boomer was 19."

Post WWII baby boom began in 1945. So in 1963 they began college so the 1960's were mostly baby boomers in the nation's colleges.

You seem a bit confused on the timing..."60's liberals" certainly included the college students.


by BrionLutz on Sun Jan 28, 2007 at 03:39:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Moving Away from the 1960s Left (none / 0)

Ookay...little basic math here.

Soldiers returned from WWII in 1945 ("baby boom, remember?). It takes 9 months to knock out a kid. So at best we're talking late 1945. Now, what is 1945 subtracted from 1964?

19. Freshmen. Sophomores at best

That would be the very bleeding edge of the boom. Most came later.

Your point was the 1964 act. Now unless that appeared sui generis day before voting, one could assume some lead time.

So, unless you actually believe the act wouldn't have happened without those brave froshes, an idea patently ludicrous on its face, then the boomers had nothing to do with it.


by ElitistJohn on Sun Jan 28, 2007 at 05:44:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Moving Away from the 1960s Left (none / 0)

"Your point was the 1964 act."

"60's left" was the original author's point and their accomplishments in the 60's and 70's were huge with the 1963 Civil Rights Act being the jewel in the crown.

I noted that the 60's left included the boomers as college kids...that is who filled the colleges in the 60's and 70's


by BrionLutz on Sun Jan 28, 2007 at 05:57:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

1960s Left (none / 0)

Happy New Year in spite of it all.


by global yokel on Sun Dec 31, 2006 at 02:14:34 PM EST

Re: Moving Away from the 1960s Left (3.00 / 2)

As a 1960's DFH, now grandmother and still an activist, I must agree with one of your points, that we did not answer the neocom meme, our PR sucked.  I think we thought we'd won (per Brian Lutz, above), and their meme was basically sour grapes.  Then many of us went off and did what we'd put off in order to end Vietnam - like having babies, finsihing school, getting real jobs, paying taxes and growing veggies in suburbia.

I do want to re-read your diary when I am less rushed, and have time to think about some of your other points, but I tend to think there were some excesses.  Particularly in the People's Republic of Berkeley.


by dksbook on Sun Dec 31, 2006 at 02:32:46 PM EST

Re: Moving Away from the 1960s Left (none / 0)

I think the problem is between the ideals of the left, whether those were a failure, and the leadership of the left, whether they were a failure. I don't think a leader needs to name people by name to create change. I do think that, for example the discussion of crack in urban America (or cocaine in the suburbs), isn't a discussion of the failures of the old left versus new left. It's a failure of leadership and a failure of followers to get beyond orthodoxy, burnout, corruption and multiple other things that have nothing to do with the ideals themself.  


by bruh21 on Sun Dec 31, 2006 at 02:38:50 PM EST

This is an unresolved Problem in the left (none / 0)

Between a desire for a proactive government approach to social problems and the maximalization of personal freedom. The Peace and Freedom and Libertarian parties came from the same root and went different directions. This is, indeed, one of the lasting problems of the sixties, never having worked out this conflict, particularly as regards drugs. Lots of people who were irresponsible with drugs in youth become anti-drug later, particularly if they have kids, so this is an area where the tendencies of a generation can tend to change over time. However, I don't think the later generations have worked out this conflict either, and  it is one of the classic basic  political problems.


by bento on Sun Dec 31, 2006 at 10:50:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Moving Away from the 1960s Left (3.00 / 2)

You say, Matt, "Do you know who the 1960s left created in terms of successful political leadership? Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, Joe Lieberman, and John Kerry."

Aren't you leaving out Howard Dean? A young Wall Street guy who wanted to do something meaningful and became a GP and then inspired even me to write letters to the editor and electioneer?


by joyful alternative on Sun Dec 31, 2006 at 02:47:56 PM EST

Re: Moving Away from the 1960s Left (none / 0)

Why are the sixties measured by Bill Clinton, but the Greatest Generation not by Nixon and Reagan? Reagan, in his image, embodied the idealized self of that generation. For that matter, why is the greatest generation measured mostly by the noble fight of their youth, against fascism, rather than their later support for McCarthyism and America right or wrong, but boomers measured by what they are doing late in life? Seems odd.


by bento on Sun Dec 31, 2006 at 10:53:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

1960s Left: seperate perspective (none / 0)

As a 20-year-old kid in this new progressive movement of ours (and yeah, I was easily one of the youngest people at YearlyKos or in the MyDD Caucus Room...),

I think there's an aspect being left out of the story:  the "then they went home and had kids, and raised radicals" part of the story.  I know just so many people in the movement who's parents were hard-core peace activists or even political shakers.  

The thing is, and this is what is pushing the Youth Movement (which unlike you Matt, I think very much exists and is growing), the kids of the "dirty fucking hippies" flower-hippie set, those kids aren't activley engaged in this new movement as much.  They're liberal, sure, very liberal, especially socially w/ regards to drugs, sex, race, gender... but they're not taking a hands on leadership role in the movement.  

The kids of 1960s and 1970s liberal electoral politics people, those kids are the ones who ended up raised with an actual belief in the system as a means for change.  Those are the kids who are  leading and taking part in the Youth Movement of today.  It seems you have to believe in the system, even while being kicked around by it, in order to raise kids who believe in the system enough to work to change it.  

I think I may try writing a diary on this sometime later this week...I haven't written a MyDD Diary in like 2 years though, so we'll see.  


by johnowens2 on Sun Dec 31, 2006 at 02:48:43 PM EST

An Assinine Assesment (2.00 / 1)

Radical street politics and confrontation are the best  and most effective elements of American political action going back before Lexington and Concord through the Whiskey Rebellion.  My own mother went on the "Race marches" in LA and Chicago in the 30s. And the unions did not succeed by being mamby pamby blog writers.

Maybe we looked to other things like our careers because we thought we had suceeded....Ford and Nixon wwere basically pretty liberal...few but the John Birchers thought conservatism had a chance.   And as the author above points out, we had succeeded, certainly as much as any past generation of lefties  (and i don't think we are lefties, I think we are in the mainstream tradition going back to our revolutionary ancestors):  black rights,womens rights, ended the war, war on poverty, desegragation, environmentalism (without which there is unlikely to even be any notice of global warming), gay rights....and we mmade more progress with confrontation and pol.action than yakking..In fact, more in one short period than any before or after in American history.

Now then, what have you disrespectful ill informed assholes accomplished?  A war against Lieberman, who cleaned your clock. ....last time i checked one in the hand was still worth two in the bush....could have won more races with those wasted resources.   Election of homophobic bigots like Stephanie Herseth?  Well, big fucking congratulations to you, Sonny, now that the religious right counter reaction (and there always is one) appears to have run its course.

Oh yeah, it ain't the 20 somethings writing checks to the lefty bloggers...it's us.  But we don't have to keep doing it.  There is no silver bullet...change takes a hail of bullets of all  kinds from all sides....except for the circular firing squad you are promoting.   The magic of the 60s was that it was hopeful and inspirational as we began to dream about the kind of world in which we hped to live and in many respects made that happen.


You're nobody...until you've been banned at dkos because you had an original thought or spoke truth to power.
by NorCalJim on Sun Dec 31, 2006 at 03:03:19 PM EST

Re: An Assinine Assesment (3.00 / 1)

It's funny that in this comment you reiterate all the failed strategic arguments of the 1960s left - the implication that a political movement must necessarily be young, that politics is about dreaming and feeling good, that street confrontation is always more effective than persuasion.


by Matt Stoller on Sun Dec 31, 2006 at 03:25:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

But There's A Message There, Matt (none / 0)

You're right to object.  But just note what this points to--segregation and the Vietnam War were not going away via normal politics.  No amount of normal politics would have stopped them.  No amount of normal politics could even get them seriously on the table.  It took intense confrontation to even begin the process of persuasion.

p.s.  There's nothing "feel good" about getting beaten over the head.


by Paul Rosenberg on Sun Dec 31, 2006 at 10:35:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: But There's A Message There, Matt (none / 0)

The early 1960s direct action techniques worked because they demonstrated the monstrosity of Southern segregation.  The late 1960s use of direct action techniques (Yippies, Diggers, and Motherfuckers) was self-indulgent and obnoxious.

In terms of Vietnam, the bulk of the evidence suggests that it was the Tet offensive and not the antiwar marches that made the difference.

I don't disagree with the thrust of your comments.


by Matt Stoller on Mon Jan 01, 2007 at 06:09:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

The Diggers???? (none / 0)

First, the low-hanging fruit: The Diggers weren't about direct action to stop the Vietnam War.  And even the Yippies, who were, only constituted a small fraction of the anti-war movement.  You say, "self-indulgent," but there was a media blackout, and their creativity found a way through it.  That's why they had an impact far beyond their numbers.  And since when is that a bad thing???

Second, you say it was Tet that ended the war.  But it was a whole lot more complicated than that, particularly since Tet was early 1968, and we didn't leave Vietnam till Nixon's second term.  The main thing that ended the war--the still buried reason--was the GI anti-war movement, as documented in the film Sir! No Sir! It started with the lowly grunts down in the muck, but in the end, even Air Force captains were refusing to fly bombing missions which they regarded--correctly--as war crimes.  You can't fight an illegal war when those fighting it decide to obey the law.  It just can't be done.  And that, ultimately, is what happened in Vietnam.

But the GI anti-war movement was an extension of the civilian anti-war movement.  It was both inspired by and supported by the civilian anti-war movement.  Not that they didn't more than return the favor once they got up and running.  But the point is that anti-war movement did end the war.  It was just vitally important to the powers that be that it never get the credit for doing so.  Just as it was vitally important that the GI anti-war movement should be flushed down the memory hole.


by Paul Rosenberg on Mon Jan 01, 2007 at 12:35:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: But There's A Message There, Matt (none / 0)

Nixon's tapes show that Nixon was very seriously planning to go nuclear or bluff nuclear against North Vietnam. He was constrained by his own account by the large anti-Vietnam protests that he feared would turn to riots. Not by the media or the think tanks or any "reasonable" persuasion - by the threat of riots.


by bento on Mon Jan 01, 2007 at 01:00:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: An Assinine Assesment (3.00 / 1)

There are exactly two decades during which almost all of the progressive change made in America was made: the "30's", meaning the decade from the election of FDR to the entry into world war 2, and the "60's" meaning the decade from the  assasination of Kennedy to the resignation of Nixon. Both of these decades stand out from the rest of the 20th century by the reality of relatively widespread radicalism - many people who wanted to dramatically change the American system of government and economics and were actively working towards this goal. If anything, those of the 30's whom you praise were more irresponsible: many of them, all the way up to the VP of the US, were outright supporters of Soviet communism. But those were the kinds of people who generate the pressure that makes the system  compromise with the moderates. The notion that moderates can achieve anything much on their own has little historical support. It's nice to think so; that doesn't make it true. And you'll notice that the contemporary right has many extremists, and does not disrespect them.


by bento on Sun Dec 31, 2006 at 11:04:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: An Assinine Assesment (none / 0)

I believe you are oversimplifying what I wrote.


by Matt Stoller on Mon Jan 01, 2007 at 06:06:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: An Assinine Assesment (none / 0)

Wrong strategies, in your own opinion, Matt.  Pretty rigid for a young man, you are.  What I can't understand is why you think you're right about this.  You don't seem to have the understanding necessary to make such grave pronouncements.  Maybe you should stick to news accumulation and dissemination instead of helping tear apart a nascent new Democatic majority.


Love, NewsNag
by NewsNag on Mon Jan 01, 2007 at 01:18:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: An Assinine Assesment (none / 0)

You're attacking positions he did not in fact take, which makes me wonder if you're really listening. He didn't say a movement had to be young.  He said his generation is pulling its weight in the current movement more than the young. This may or may not be true, but it is entirely different from the position you attacked. He did not say political movements are about dreaming and feeling good. The entire post other than the last sentence were about actual gains achieved. The last sentence does suggest that hopes and dreams are necessary to political movements; you want to dispute that, go ahead. He doesn't say that street confrontation is "always" more effective than "persuasion", a nonsensical opposition as street confrontation is often a form of persuasion, but his claim that protests and direct action have a long history of actual achievement is well-supported empirically.


by bento on Mon Jan 01, 2007 at 05:34:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: An Assinine Assesment (none / 0)

Perhaps it's the goddamn self-righteousness from goddamn baby boomers that creates the disrespect.  Particularly when it was boomers moving out the suburbs and starting to vote for Reagan and Bush and Bush that put us in this mess that we're in right now.  It's hardly universal, but was definitely there.  And perhaps it's the toal fucking silence on queer rights from our elders--until Gen Xers made it an issue in the eighties.

Without the political capital that Johnson gained from the Kennedy assasination, the civil rights legislation that Johnson passed early in his tenure would have taken much longer.  The long amount of time of mass protesting took to have any results makes me wonder whether the ineffecacy of the Johnson/Nion policy had more to do with ending the war than the protests ever did.

But whatever.  I'm sick of these fucking fights over battles that have been over for fourty years.  And I'm sick of having them brought up, over and over, and over.  Lieberman deserved a primary, and if the Republicans hadn't decided to throw all of their support behind him, he would have lost.  If you think contemporary organizing is screwed up, why don't you work to change it?  


"You say the world has lost it's love I say embrace what it's made of" -Dar Williams
by Valatan on Sun Dec 31, 2006 at 03:32:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: An Assinine Assesment (none / 0)

Perhaps it's the goddamn self-righteousness from goddamn baby boomers that creates the disrespect.  Particularly when it was boomers moving out the suburbs and starting to vote for Reagan and Bush and Bush that put us in this mess that we're in right now.  It's hardly universal, but was definitely there.  And perhaps it's the toal fucking silence on queer rights from our elders--until Gen Xers made it an issue in the eighties.
Comments like this--assigning praise or blame to whole generations of wildy diverse, bitterly opposed factions and transfering them to individuals--always strike me as having less cognitive content than a good old-fashioned gutteral scream.

And the notion that Gen-X invented gay rights... well, I needed a good laugh.


by Paul Rosenberg on Sun Dec 31, 2006 at 10:44:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: An Assinine Assesment (none / 0)

Sorry.  I'm queer.  And I feel very alienated by my parents' generation.  And gay rights never seemed to be an issue until the AIDS marches in the eighties.  I"m not claiming that anything was invented by anyone.  I'm mainly claiming that boomers complaints about their successors are stupid.  

There is a lot that happened after they gave up, and I am sick of this bullshit about "the generation that made a difference."


"You say the world has lost it's love I say embrace what it's made of" -Dar Williams
by Valatan on Mon Jan 01, 2007 at 02:09:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Who Gave Up? (none / 0)

Since you didn't get my message the first time around, I'll repeat it for you:

Talking about whole generations this way is stupid.

And even if you could sensibly talk about a generation as if it were a single individual you could praise or blame, the reasoning is fundamentally flawed. The activism of the 1960s was remarkably widespread for a relatively narrow age-range of people.  But, particularly for the white left, most of that was concentrated among those going to college--a large number of whom were working class kids, the first in their families to ever go to college (or at best the sons and daughters of men who'd gone to college on the GI Bill). Such levels of activism are always difficult to maintain as people move into jobs and married life, for the simple reason that institutional structures supporting such activism are relatively scarce in our society, while the responsibilities of work and family are substantially less flexible than those of college.

And yet, a number of people have commented here about ways in which people remained politically involved, either through their jobs, or by organizing in their communities, in ways that rarely gain media attention or public notice.    The fact that they were geographically more dispersed guaranteed that they would not be as noticeable, or as dramatically impactful as a group. That's simply a fact of life.

As for gay rights, advancing and defending gay rights in the 1970s was a lot more challenging than you can imagine.  Prejudice was a lot more intense and widespread.  And, as a result, gays tended to be intensely closetted or move to gay meccas.  This greatly reduced the scope of frontline battles.

And, for the most part, the gay community was fine with that. Gay activists often had a hard time getting their own community interested in politics. This was hardly a surprising development. It's only natural for people who've been beaten down or forced into hiding for as long as they can remember to want to enjoy their freedom when they can get a taste of it. Most will want to take a break from fighting.  And who can blame them?

There are rhythms to the development of political attitudes that are very different among a general population, and among the sorts of people who become political activists.  Us activists can wish it weren't so all we want, but wishing won't change anything.  We're a lot more likely to be effective when we realize this, and adapt accordingly.


by Paul Rosenberg on Mon Jan 01, 2007 at 04:32:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Who Gave Up? (none / 0)

Such levels of activism are always difficult to maintain as people move into jobs and married life, for the simple reason that institutional structures supporting such activism are relatively scarce in our society, while the responsibilities of work and family are substantially less flexible than those of college.

Not true about scarcity.  There were institutional structures on the left, they just didn't work very well.


by Matt Stoller on Mon Jan 01, 2007 at 06:12:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

What Structures Are You Talking About Matt??? (none / 0)

America's old left parties had been decimated by McCarthyism--aided substantially by the mendacity of the Communist Party leadership itself, of course.  America's unions had likewise been purged of its most progressive forces, and the sorts of broader institutions they tended to create--also by McCarthyism.  The Democratic Party's structures were also still suffering under the after-effects of McCarthyism, as well as plain old-fashioned machine politics, never a friend to progressive politics.

I didn't say there were no structures. I said they were scarce.  Since you're claiming they were not, why not list 20?


by Paul Rosenberg on Mon Jan 01, 2007 at 12:44:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Stonewall = 1969 (none / 0)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stonewall_r iots

No, gay rights didn't start in the 1980s.


by Coral on Mon Jan 01, 2007 at 10:48:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: An Assinine Assesment (none / 0)

For a comment attacking self-righteousness, this is awfully self-righteous. It also has a clear double standard. Xers can legitimately attack boomers for supporting Reagan, even though Xers did so in higher numbers than boomers, and have consistently voted more Republican that either the  generation before or the generation following them. Generational wars are kind of silly anyway, but it is completely absurd for the more Republican generation to attack the less Republican one as too Republican.

As for gay rights, the gay rights movement uncontroversially began with the Stonewall riots. If you read underground publications of the 70's, the prevailing assumption was that "we are all basically bisexual" - not quite the modern gay rights view, but hardly a gay hostile one. Even Penthouse Forum had gay sex in the 70's (I was too young to read it, but when did that stop anyone?). And the first major pop stars who were avowedly gay or bi were booomers like Elton John and David Bowie. What broke the movement past the threshold was AIDS. If you want to take credit for that, go ahead.

I'm Obama's age, on the cusp of X and boomer, but I don't think it's the boomers who are being arrogant here.


by bento on Sun Dec 31, 2006 at 11:15:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: An Assinine Assesment (none / 0)

Honestly, I'm just sick of boomers being so fucking prententious about everything.  So, you lived through the vietnam protests.  Ladie dah.  Things have changed, and let's work together to make things better.  The behavior of boomers throughout the seventies and eighties doesn't measure up to their boasting, so I think this generational warfare is stupid.    Gen Xers have a legimate beef against their parents.  So, rather than bringing up all this shit from the sixties, why don't we talk concretely about the candidates in front of us today?


"You say the world has lost it's love I say embrace what it's made of" -Dar Williams
by Valatan on Mon Jan 01, 2007 at 02:14:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: An Assinine Assesment (none / 0)

This thread was started by an Xer largely condemning the failure of the 60's. You burst in here cussing at people and making all kind of ad hominem attacks. You said two things that could generously be called points to which I responded: that Reagan's victory should be credited to boomers, and that boomers did nothing for gay rights. Both contentions are, as I showed, false. You also suggested that the civil rights movement would not have been so successful without the Kennedy assasination - perhaps true, but the boomers were mostly not of voting age when the Civil Rights Act passed - talk to the Greatest Generation.

Now you say you're sick of all the fighting - let's just work together to make this world better. Someone who comments with crude cursing and condemnation should expect reprisal in kind, though I have not done this, not desiring to assume a stupidity I do not possess.

What has Gen X accomplished as far as progressive social change? By your own account, the jump in gay rights was mostly a reaction to AIDS - an exogenous shock, then, like the Kennedy assassination. What else? At the time the boomers had achieved most of their signature accomplishments, the average boomer was younger than the average Xer now, so it isn't that you're still waiting to take the stage.

Attacking boomers for voting for Reagan is particularly galling. The oldest Xers cast their first votes for Reagan in higher numbers than the boomers, and repeated the performance for Gingrich and the Bushes. If the X vote had the same demographics as the boomer, there might have been no 1994 takeover; it certainly would have been less dramatic.

I was not, in fact, "there" for the Vietnam protests, but I've done some reading and talking to people to try to find out about that period.


by bento on Mon Jan 01, 2007 at 04:07:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Moving Away from the 1960s Left (3.00 / 2)

As BrionLutz points out:

they won...Civil Rights, Voting Rights, School Desegregation, Miranda Rights, Warren Court decisions, Environmental movement and creation of the EPA...

Though some of these victories have been slightly eroded, for the most part, they remain as permanent victories. Chomsky likes to contrast the impressive opposition to the Iraq invasion before it began with the relative apathy that lasted well into the Vietnam conflict. He credits this as part of the positive moral legacy of the 60's. I think your characterization of the 60's as a failure is unfair. They were so successful that they prompted an extremely organized and well-funded backlash from the right that, despite its enormous resources, has yet to turn back the clock to pre-60's in many areas.

Where I think you are correct and where you make your most interesting point is here:

The failure of the 1960s left goes back to two structural weaknesses - one is the assumption that liberals, radicals, and Democrats all made, that America was post-scarcity.  The failure to understand that economic security allowed a political left led directly to the right-wing manipulation of economic risk to our current situation.  The students of the New Left and the liberals of the time just assumed material progress, which left us unprepared for oil shocks.  But instead of coming up with new ideas, the New Left turned inward and the liberals were scared away from political combat.
Yes, the right understood that making the masses less affluent made them less powerful. I think you might be right that the 60's left, having ended the war and passed civil rights, took continued prosperity for granted  (actually, took for granted that prosperity would be shared, took for granted the New Deal) and failed to anticipate the new corporate globalism. But then again, the huge corporations owned all the media, so the left was always at a disadvantage. You can say all you want about how much more effective the new left is, but would we be any more effective at all without the internet? How much more ass could the left have kicked if they had the internet back then? It seems this is a big piece of the puzzle you are leaving out.


miasmo.com
by miasmo on Sun Dec 31, 2006 at 03:30:32 PM EST

Not all of the media (none / 0)

PBS and NPR are, at least for now, not corporately owned.  I wish I knew a way to push them more.


"You say the world has lost it's love I say embrace what it's made of" -Dar Williams
by Valatan on Sun Dec 31, 2006 at 03:36:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not all of the media (none / 0)

They are corporately sponsored.


miasmo.com
by miasmo on Sun Dec 31, 2006 at 04:55:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not all of the media (3.00 / 1)

And yet, they hold up (60s child) Tom Friedman on Jim Leher as a forthright visionary of the glories of global capitalism.

There are bright spots, Democracy Now, alternative radio, media matters (Bob McChesney's show), living on earth, but they are few and far between and actually getting scarcer as the political pressures grow greater to be "balanced".

I wish I knew how to push them too besides only donating during programs that are meaningful.


by adamterando on Sun Dec 31, 2006 at 05:26:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Moving Away from the 1960s Left (none / 0)

I was somewhat a DFH, although not that dirty.

As noted, while there were some attpempts at creating leftist institutions, the media perception of SDS and SNCC were as rifle toting revolutionaries, and the free speech movement as personified at Berkely by Mario Savio was painted as a communist front.

I remember seeing David Harris (ex-Mr. Joan Baez) speak at an all day thing at the Hollywood Bowl, and he was all for creating some institutional strength. But the left then, as now, always tends to resist any attempt to organize as authoritarian and thus evil. And when fringe groups are allowed to speak at major rallies, as happened earlier this year, it becomes as pointless as arguments between the Judean People's Front and the People's Front of Judea.

God bless Howard Dean for trying to impost some disclipline in the Democratic Party. But to see how resistant even centrist Dems are, one only needs to look at recent antics by Carville, et al, when called to march in line.

Still, this DFH yearns for unity. And for the small group loyalists and identifiers, get over yourselves. Sure, I think there should be less animal product testing, and more drug company regulation. But none of that will happen unless we elect some progressives first.

Priorities, kids, not your pet action committee.


Steve
by SteveAudio on Sun Dec 31, 2006 at 03:39:41 PM EST

Re: Moving Away from the 1960s Left (none / 0)

Yes, this would be great - it's not about YOU, the protester, and you sticking it to the man, it's about making the world a better place. Leave your self-absorption at the door, be disciplined about what you are doing.  The immigration march is a good example, just people gathering quietly in blue jeans and simple white shirts, to listen and register their opposition.


by jc on Sun Dec 31, 2006 at 03:52:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Moving Away from the 1960s Left (none / 0)

I think a big problem here was the sixties rebellion against institutionalisation itself. In a sense, they were right. The grey flannel suit world with its predictability was more appealing than they appreciated, but it was not and is not the future. Nonetheless, you do have to create institutions to have longevity, and where the DFH's did so, even accidently (cough Greatful Dead cough), the culture persisted.


by bento on Sun Dec 31, 2006 at 11:20:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Moving Away from the 1960s Left (3.00 / 1)

It's been said before, but the tactics of the left - the street theater, the "dirty fucking hippies", etc - they STILL exist when there is a march.  

I live in San Francisco, so, when there is a march against Bush, it takes on this horrible narcissistic quality.  People make it about THEM protesting, rathe than about what it takes to get people to listen.

Why not have a protest where everyone agrees to come in their Sunday best?  Or at least business casual attire?  Where everyone brings, I don't know, cupcakes and jokes, to hand out to passerbys?

Imagine a march or anti-Bush meeting like this:

Man/woman in suit/nice dress:  "Excuse me sir/madam, would you like a cupcake?"  (the stage is set as well, by having non-confrontational/educational type of posters - no "Buck Fush!"  or such), then you lead in with "if I tell you a joke, and it's funny, and you smile or laugh, can I talk to you for a minute?"

That type of engagement with a person, recognizes that a person is busy, that for a peson to give up their time, they are more willing to listen if you give something in return, and as well, you make it fun!

We could learn something from the immigration demonstrations - no "dirty fucking hippies" anywhere, just people in blue jeans and a white shirt.  And I think, more successful as a result.


by jc on Sun Dec 31, 2006 at 03:49:37 PM EST

Get Clean for Gene! (none / 0)


"You say the world has lost it's love I say embrace what it's made of" -Dar Williams
by Valatan on Sun Dec 31, 2006 at 03:54:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Get Clean for Gene! (none / 0)

Hey, just ragging on the narcissism.  


by jc on Wed Jan 03, 2007 at 07:07:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Get Clean for Gene! (none / 0)

I wasn't trying to rag on you.

That was a real slogan during the '68 primaries.  Sell yourself as credible so that you could actually advocate for a leftist candidate.


"You say the world has lost it's love I say embrace what it's made of" -Dar Williams
by Valatan on Fri Jan 05, 2007 at 12:02:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Ah, Sweet Riot Memories! (none / 0)

I've been to a handful some really great political riots and a couple of them have been in SF: against Gulf War I in from Haight to Market, and post-Rodney King on Market St.

I gotta say this: I really miss how SF throws a riot.

Every once in a while, I wish I could hear bagpipes, drums, and the thunder of thousands marching again.  The delicious aroma of burning cop cars and gas stations...  Ah...


Dennis Kucinich, Progressive Democrat for President in 2008
by hoose on Sun Dec 31, 2006 at 06:11:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ah, Sweet Riot Memories! (none / 0)

I'm not sure how much this is irony, how much is accurate - "from Haight to Market" - really?

A bit more clarity please, for the irony-impaired?


by jc on Wed Jan 03, 2007 at 07:09:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ah, Sweet Riot Memories! (none / 0)

Really very little irony at all.  The first Sunday night of Gulf War I, I sat in my apartment on Oak & Stanyan grading papers.  The ground started shaking, but it wasn't an eathquake.  As soon as I heard the bagpipes, I was out the door.  Several hours later, we were destroying a gas-station on Haight just off Market.

The exploding cop cars were in the Rodney King riots a year or two later.  That whole night was stupid.  I stepped off the train from the peninsula and was arrested (along with everyone else downtown) within an hour.  But it was really cool when folks started chucking maltov's at cop cars, and they actually started burning.


Dennis Kucinich, Progressive Democrat for President in 2008
by hoose on Wed Jan 03, 2007 at 07:59:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ah, Sweet Riot Memories! (none / 0)

All true.


Can It Happen Here?
by janinsanfran on Tue Jan 16, 2007 at 01:42:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

What you want to do (none / 0)

If you want to protest this way, no one will stop you, and it may be a good idea. The problem is that you want everyone to protest your way for it to work. That was the problem with the old communist left that the sixties new left rebelled against: ideas that have to be adhered to by everyone. So the demonstrations are done in the way that people willing to put in the effort want to do them. Since demonstrations easily get boring and are sometimes dangerous, they find ways to keep their own interest up. If you don't like these ways, but also don't have enough interest to protest, well, that sort of explains the puppets and drums.


by bento on Sun Dec 31, 2006 at 11:24:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Drums And Puppets (none / 0)

I don't know how to break to you folks, but drums and puppets are about as traditional and old-fashioned as you can get. Folks have been using them for thousands of years.  Nothing freaky about them at all.

Plus, they have an actual appeal to people. If they didn't, the cops would not spend so much time and energy destroying them whenever they can.


by Paul Rosenberg on Mon Jan 01, 2007 at 04:52:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You talkin to me? (none / 0)

If you think I'm attacking drums and puppets, you misread my post. Some people like them, and some think them stupid, but I was just trying to explain some of their appeal, as a lot of non-protesters don't get it.


by bento on Tue Jan 02, 2007 at 12:26:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What you want to do (none / 0)

Hey, I showed up for Gulf War II - great turnout, fairly mellow vibe.  But a lot of the speakers were idiots - I don't know how ANSWER got to be the "leader" for that get together - talk about a walking breathing  paean to the "dirty effing hippies".

Near the end, I was following on Market, a group of drum bangers, who had the cool machismo eff you vibe. They ended up turningg off Market, (where I kept straight) onto Montgomery.

I read in the paper the next day, that that group rioted a small bit, when it got to California street - some broken windows and such.  

At any rate, your point is well-taken - "be the change you wish to see in the world".


by jc on Wed Jan 03, 2007 at 07:06:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Moving Away from the 1960s Left (none / 0)

Just wanted to say that I'm really enjoying your series focusing on the new left's successes and failures, that I think your conclusions are right on, and definitely worth discussion.

I'm 25 so I really jive with your viewpoint, but it seems that many people who participated in the New Left movement of the 60's are a little up-at-arms by this discussion.

Still, if we really want success for the future of progressivism, it's important that we look at ourselves through an extremely critical lense, which is why I think your criticisms are valid. The rise of the New Right is the first time since the creation of New Deal liberalism that the american left has completely lost control. As a movement, we can look to the last 8-10 years as a significant step backwards, and that's not a good direction to be heading.

The good news is that we are in a great position to move foreward again, and start patching up many of the wounds the neo-cons have created.

To do this we must work together- the old guard and new. The hippies didn't lose, they just got their asses kicked a little. This journal is a testament to the fact that their still alive and kicking, and a boon to the new progressive movement.

if we learn from the mistakes of the past, we can recapture that wonderful momentum of the 60s left, create a progressive infrastructure and craft real and lasting solutions to the problems in our lives.

end punditry.


by Mark Ristaino on Sun Dec 31, 2006 at 03:51:20 PM EST

Re: Moving Away from the 1960s Left (3.00 / 4)

Matt,

There's just so much that you don't know about the political struggles of the time or of what many activists went on to do with their lives.  
For example, supporting North Vietnam.  The U.S. invaded Vietnam without any provocation.  Do you think it was wrong to condemn that brutal invasion and war as evil?  We supported, without condemning U.S. troops, the right of the Vietnamese people to self-determination.  That meant supporting the leadership the majority of Vietnamese would have chosen, including Ho Chi Minh.  Did we think the NLF was perfect?  No more than the Sandinistas, whom I also supported, but we were clear enough to condemn imperialism and genocide, as in a million people killed, the bombing of civilian popualtion centers, napalm, etc.  And we condemned the worst war crimes and demanded accountability.
Dirty fucking hippies?  I beg your pardon.  I worked as a poll watcher in Mississippi for Charles Evers in 1971 and helped some black folks in their sixties vote for the first time in their lives.  Yes, that was helping to build the institution of free elections and the Dem party and contributed, as so many efforts did, to electing Bennie Thompson and many local African-American elected officials.  I joined many others to work on building alternative institutions in Vermont, including the Liberty Union Party, Bernie Sanders launching pad.  I worked with prisoners in Wisconsin and Massachusetts, and with the People's Bicentennial Commission in Vermont to contest the cultural hegemony of America as the best, fairest, etc.  
Retreat to academia?  Retreat?  I worked hard to get a Ph.D. and contribute to the development of an activist, progressive sociology in the U.S., unlike the crap I had to hear in four years as an undergraduate from 1968 to 72.  I taught almost 3,000 students over a twenty year career, including many your age who are now part of progressive movements, city councils and the blogosphere.  
As for others of my generation, after the war they tried to develop meaningful lives that included some of the normal life course developmetns like jobs, spouse, kids, spiritual and creative growth.  Excuse us if we weren't winning national elections.  Many of us were too busy moving into inner-city school districts as teachers, serving as doctors and nurses, health care aides, soccer coaches, activists in parent-teacher organizations, or, hardest of all, being good parents.
Our cultural victories were so enormous that they have constituted your taken-for-granted world.  Repudiate us, out of your impressive disdain and ignorance,and you re-imagine yourself right out of existence.


by Thaddeus on Sun Dec 31, 2006 at 04:09:52 PM EST

Thank You For Covering This Aspect of Things (none / 0)

You've tied a lot of missing threads together.


by Paul Rosenberg on Sun Dec 31, 2006 at 11:01:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Moving Away from the 1960s Left (none / 0)

Thanks for this.  It helps complete the vision of what has transpired.  Especially when you write:  "Our cultural victories were so enormous that they have constituted your taken-for-granted world."

And by the way, Matt's use of 'dirty fucking hippies' (DFH) is actually a fond self-description by people of our generation and activism, popularized on the internet, I believe, by Atrios on his site and picked up as a meme from there.


Love, NewsNag
by NewsNag on Mon Jan 01, 2007 at 01:33:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

If we follow the 'Generations' thesis, ... (none / 0)

... then this is all to be expected. From the kind of  "Idealist" generation represented by the Baby Boomers, we get pretty youth rebellions, pretty lame midlifes with lots of strife with those of us in the following Pragmatist generation (only highlighted by the way that Baby Boomers Strauss and Howe decide to call us a "Reactive" generation), and are best represented by their late-bloomers, who are able to lead with a group of Pragmatists as their field generals and "Millenial" generation (like the GI or 'Greatest Generation') providing the footsoldiers for the movement.

So on that reading of history, pretty lame to date from the Baby Boomers would only be following the longer waves of history ... the best from them may be still to come.


*John Edwards* ... and the JE08 Supporters Blog
by BruceMcF on Sun Dec 31, 2006 at 04:10:23 PM EST

Re: Moving Away from the 1960s Left (3.00 / 1)

One important point has so far been missed, and that is the effect that the Powell Manifesto ha on changing history. Simply put, in 1971 most Americans were sufficently impressed with the improvements that first the new deal and late the great society had had on their lives that they tended to vote on economic issues. Powell looked at the nature of work and realized that if this orentation toward pragmatic voting wasn't broken, the Republicans would be a permanent minority.

The result? The funding of right wing think tanks by wealthy reactionaries which led to the distracting issues we now call the culture wars. It was once said that Reagan won by persuading working people to vote symbolically while the elite voted their economic interests. Excatly.That is why it seems like the left "lost" the sixties.


by herbal tee on Sun Dec 31, 2006 at 04:19:08 PM EST

Very True! (none / 0)

Not nearly enough people know about the Powell Memo.  But it's only the latest chapter in a very long history of rightwing elite organizing.  It was that history that gave Powell the confidence to go ahead and write his memo.  It was the pre-existing infrastructure of the Chamber of Commerce that gave Powell a platform, both to address, and to mobilize for action.

The failure to couter-organize on the same sort of basis is certainly a failure of the left.  But hardly of the New Left.  Not too many of them had a spare $500 million lying around.


by Paul Rosenberg on Sun Dec 31, 2006 at 11:13:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Moving Away from the 1960s Left (3.00 / 1)

It is silly to talk as if the left disappeared in 1970.  My left, the left of the seventies and eighties was just as significant as that of the sixties, though also mixed in its success given the onslaught of neoliberalism  in the wake of the 1970s world economic crisis.

In fact there was a left throughout the seventies and eighties that was extremely important and effective, and just as often based in mass protest. Obviously the feminist movement caused much more than cultural change--a complete revolution in the rights of women in the workplace and to be free of occupational restrictions that were commonplace before. Gendered job ads are not beyond my memory and their prohibition is not merely a "cultural" victory. The women's movement has also surprisingly prevented the reversal of Roe v. Wade, despite the Republican majority on the Supreme Court.  

Thousands of individuals were arrested in the early 1980s protesting nuclear power and weapons, and US policy in Central America.  Particularly successful was the South Africa divestment movement.  The direct action movements of the '80s   also built models of participatory decision making that repudiated the centralized star-oriented patriarchal models of sixties movements and helped rid the Left of that Leninist oxymoron known as democratic centralism.  

The direct descendant of the eighties anti-nuclear movement was the contemporary movement for global justice, which successfully disrupted a WTO meeting in Seattle in 1998, and has begun to heal the gap between anarchists and electoral activists:  "Don't just vote" was a huge improvement on radical perspective that saw voting as a "sellout."  These movements also emphasized the potentials of new computing and communications technology for organizing and emphasized the limitations of culturally progressive neo-liberals such as Bill Clinton who promoted less than progressive forms of globalization and excessive managerial regulation.  

To erase these movements is to succumb to MSM cliches of the Reagan era that constantly dismissed and minimized demonstrations that were significantly larger and more militant than those of the sixties by comparing them to the sixties as if that was the only time that resistance to our undemocratic form of government here in the United States ever had any importance.  


by TomSkidmore on Sun Dec 31, 2006 at 04:51:17 PM EST

Re: Moving Away from the 1960s Left (none / 0)

I lived through and participated in some of the movements you describe, whereas the sixties movements were before my time. Nonetheless, I think these things were of comparatively little consequence. The anti-apartheid movement worked, but I think it was facile to attack racism in another country that hardly anyone in your own society is ready to defend. Not saying it was wrong, but it was easy, especially at the height of Reaganism, with so many problems at home. And the anti-nuclear weapon and out of CA movements, despite momentary successes, just failed. I didn't know the Spanish anarchist model had not yet been adopted in the 60's. Those 60's protests were actually Leninist in organization? I know SDS let the commies in, but not that they had adopted their organizational techniques. Seems unlikely to me. Was use of the SA model an innovation of the anti-nuclear (power) movement, then?


by bento on Sun Dec 31, 2006 at 11:36:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Moving Away from the 1960s Left (none / 0)

The use of affinity groups and consensus process, a hybrid of anarchist and Quaker practices, began with the So Africa divestment movement at Stanford Univ in the late '70s and expanded to the anti-nuclear power demonstrations in Seabrook, NH and Diablo Canyon CA in '78 and '79. It was the first really rigorous way of looking at power, how it was gendered and how it flowed within a protest movement.  And the anti-nuclear power movement does deserve some credit for bringing nearly a complete end to nuclear power construction in the United States (unless you think stockpiling radioactive waste with half-lives many times that of a human life is a good idea as Tony Blair and so many Clintonites seem to do).

SDS was initially dedicated to a vague notion of participatory democracy, but it wound up being run by sexist egotistical media stars, and then fractionated into Maoist factions controlled by outside organizations such as the Progressive Labor Party and the Revolutionary Communist Party, then known as the Revolutionary Union. Leninism took it from being a serious political organization to to pseudo-revolutionary farce.

So far, the consensus-based organizations have had their moments, see themselves as part of a global movement--with links to the Zapatistas and the European left, take a much more mature attitude toward electoral politics "Don't just vote" than their forbearers in the eighties.  And Seattle and other demonstrations for global justice have challenged corporate globalization with a call for global justice that is much more sensible and moral than a retreat to nationalistic protectionism.


by TomSkidmore on Mon Jan 01, 2007 at 10:33:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Moving Away from the 1960s Left (none / 0)

Agreed that the anti-nuclear (power) movement was successful though I  would call that the last boomer harrah, or the first harrah of people on the cusp like me. People of college age in the late 70's were boomers, but that movement peaked in the early eighties. I didn't know how affinity group organization became prevalent, so that is useful information. I've talked to people who were in SDS, and  I find little in their way of  thinking to emulate. All that said, I  think the actual achievements of the sixties (defined culturally as 63-73) dwarf those of the subsequent decades. Indeed, since the eighties, the prevailing battle has been to rollback the  sixties. This has accelerated recently,  but  is nothing new.


by bento on Mon Jan 01, 2007 at 01:16:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Moving Away from the 1960s Left