2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread

Just for fun, I have put together a straw poll on the 2008 Democratic Presidential nomination. Don't complain if your candidate isn't there because, if you haven't noticed by now, that sort of thing doesn't change my mind. All of these candidates have either said they are actively considering a run, or are actually running already. No one else has said that, except for that weirdo from Alaska, and I don't care how you parse their words. Besides, this is the final straw poll that will include candidates who are "considering" a run. All straw polls after this point will only include announced candidates.

The poll is only active today, so go and vote now. I'll go over the results tomorrow. Mark Warner has been removed and Barack Obama has been added.

Also, the Florida Democratic Party only needs another $1,885 $1,480 to pay for a recount in FL-13. You can help out here.

This is an open thread. Tell the world what is on your mind.

Update: Evan Bayh has been excluded from the poll (that is why there are so many "none of these" in the results). I like the guy even less because of this stuffing now. I can't imagine this will help his image in the netroots much either. Here is a hint to poll sutffers--the key to poll stuffing is dong it in a way that no one would notice it is poll stuffing.

Update 2: Forget the poll. Also, I'll add Mike Gravel into future polls. We are so close to having more caniddates announce, I'll just wait until the field is pretty set before doing more of this again (early 2007). Not to mention that we need some sort of secure voting mechanism so that annoying stuffers can't ruin the fun. That is what this really is to me--fun. Too many people sem to try and make some kind of point with these polls.



Display:


Re: 2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread (none / 0)

I don't understand why you go to the trouble to admit that you know about Mike Gravel in Alaska and then fail to list him.  WTF?


by LoganFerree on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 03:00:17 PM EST

Re: 2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread (none / 0)

Isn't it just possible that 4 years ago many people would have characterized Howard Dean as "that weirdo from Vermont"?

On the other hand, I don't know much about Mike Gravel.  In what way is he weird, besides wanting to run for President?


Tim Wolfe
by bruorton on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 03:10:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread (none / 0)

the difference: in 2002 Howard Dean was the outgoing Governor of Vermont, and had been Governor for 11 years. He also had built a very moderate reputation at home, and had been excellent at bipartisan compromise while heading the National Governor's Association.

Gravel hasn't been elected to anything since 1974, having been unseated in 1980. He hasn't run for anything since as far as I know. Now he is quite old, and says he is only pursuing the nomination to push for a "direct democracy" initiative.


by raginillinoian on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 05:42:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread (none / 0)

Ah, indeed.  Gravel really is just a novelty candidate.  

I mean, Dean started out that way too -- he only wanted to bring the issue of health care to the fore, I think -- but of course it ended up as much more.

And as a lifelong Vermonter, I'd say your characterization of him is spot on.  Too many people make up their own version of what they think he was.


Tim Wolfe
by bruorton on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 09:32:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Please Vote in this DKos 2008 Poll I posted (none / 0)

Please Vote in this DKos 2008 Poll I just posted:


Candidate/Prospect list: Bayh, Biden, Clark, Clintons, Daschle, Dodd, Edwards, Feingold, Gore, Gravel, Kerry, Obama, Vilsack, Richardson, Other/Not sure

Vote Now!

Please DO NOT promote this poll in any candidate specific blog, mailing list, or thread.


by NuevoLiberal on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 03:33:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Somebody, anybody (2.50 / 2)

tell me why Barack Obama is a viable presidential candidate. What has he ever done to make you think so? Tell me one thing he stands for that would encourage me to vote for him. He's a pretty face. That's all. Get real, people. Jeez.


by Atlantajan on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 03:03:21 PM EST

Re: Somebody, anybody (none / 0)

You are completely right. Barack is a great speaker and is good at getting votes, but beyond that he is still a new politican and still needs to prove himself. I like him as person but he still has a ways to go as a politician. Although, I would really like to see a Feingold/Obama ticket.


Jeremy Bentham sucks!!
by Forward with Feingold on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 03:10:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Somebody, anybody (none / 0)

Yeah... Obama is in his first term in the Senate and many of the same criticisms that were levied against John Edwards for being inexperienced will be used against him.  What's more -- I hate to bring up the race factor, but it's very possible that it could cost him 2-3% of the vote in some states if he were the nominee.  I'm not sure America is ready for a black President (but then again, I'm from Tennessee, so I'm probably just bitter.)


by Tom on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 03:13:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

If you are from Tn (none / 0)

Then you know that race wasn't the main factor in Harold Fords loss.


Check out the New Progressive Blog EENRBLOG
by dk2 on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 07:47:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Somebody, anybody (none / 0)

Race is an issue that will cut both ways, though.  Barack will be able to mobilize Black voters in ways that Kerry and Gore could only dream of.

Also, is race going to be more of a hindrance than religion?  I respect Russ Feingold a lot and would enthusiastically give him my vote for President, but how much is his Judaism going to hurt him nationally?  I don't think people should not support him based on his religion, but it does make me concerned.  I think there's a good case to be made that there will be a bigger backlash against a Jewish candidate than against a Black or female candidate.


by LPMandrake on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 07:53:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Feingold/Clark: order is not important. (none / 0)

Come on!  Obama is not a progressive. Why would you even mention his name in that same sentence with Feingold's?  Feingoldistas should only not give in credence to DLC types.


by jncamane on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 11:39:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Somebody, anybody (none / 0)

How about Barack Obama / Clinton thats Bill for the first four years than a new VP


by KevinB on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 03:50:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Somebody, anybody (none / 0)

What has John Edwards done?  


by yitbos96bb on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 04:17:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Somebody, anybody (none / 0)

Edwards went around the country to several states, including Colorado, campaigning for an increase in the minimum wage.  Not exactly the flashiest issue, but the one which directly impacts the working poor more than any other.

How many other candidates have provided any more than lip service to poverty issues?

Maybe that's because, unlike most other Dem candidates for President, Edwards went to a PUBLIC university for undergrad, and a PUBLIC law school for his law degree.


by leveller on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 05:31:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Somebody, anybody (none / 0)

Not all peopel at Private schools are spoiled rich kids... many work there asses off and borrow to pay for them.  


by yitbos96bb on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 05:54:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Somebody, anybody (none / 0)

Agreed... I went to a private university for grad school and will be paying it off for the next 15 years.


by wmsiegel on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 07:53:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Check out One America Committee (none / 0)

It has his statement, speechs, blog, podcast and travels on it.

http://oneamericacommittee.com/


Check out the New Progressive Blog EENRBLOG
by dk2 on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 09:32:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Somebody, anybody (none / 0)

Yeah.. Unlike Edwards, who has a lengthy record of legislative accomplishments.


by Winston Smith on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 04:39:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Somebody, anybody (none / 0)

tell me why Barack Obama is a viable presidential candidate.

Obama is brilliant, articulate, and has enormous charisma. That by itself is not enough for me to support him. I picked him second after Feingold. I agree that he has yet to prove himself, although I believe he could prove himself through a presidential campaign. I think his high level of support in this poll is somewhat of a reflection of the negatives of the other candidates. I suspect that I am not the only one here for whom the war is a litmus test. Anyone who supported the war has demonstrated their lack of intelligence or courage/integrity or both. That knocks most of those clowns off my list.
miasmo.com
by miasmo on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 05:19:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Somebody, anybody (3.00 / 1)

Obama has made some dumb statements showing a lack of intelligence to traingulate without bashing his own base. Either that, or he is throwing his party under the bus to get himself some press.  If he really want to triangulate that badly, there are way of doing so. He went on a rant about how the party has been reflexively against a war just for the sake of opposing a war. This is such a false statement and a needless attack on his own party. Is the guy so stupid that he doesn't remember that not too long ago , a lot of the democratic party people supported the invasion of Afghanistan?

For him to go on GOd rants is first class pandering. But I will excuse him on that as there is no truth or falsehoods associated with pandering to the religious. It is what it is.

But I will not excuse him for dumb statements implying a significant portion of the Dem Party opposing wars just for the sake of doing so. There is only a very small fringe in the party that does so that it is not worth bringing up.


by Pravin on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 05:35:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Somebody, anybody (none / 0)

He's wasn't pandering to religious folk.  He is an extremely spiritual person.  He was saying that some dems automatically want to exclude anyone who celebrates their religion and that this shouldn't happen.  And he is right... there are several Dems who act this way... I have met them and seen them on this site, Kos and several others.  There is nothing wrong with religious folk in Democratic party.  And just because one is a Christian doesn't make him Jesse Helms.  Many progressive Christians get put off at times... being the big tent party we need to welcome both the christians and the aethiests into our halls.  

But you're right Pravin... Inclusion and Tolerance of those who one agrees with and disagrees with are a bad thing for a Democratic Politician to speak about and believe in.  We should be like the Limbaughs and Roves of the world... Fuck anyone who isn't in our exclusive circle.  


by yitbos96bb on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 06:01:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Somebody, anybody (none / 0)

Is Obama being inclusive when he bashes his own party for bashing wars too often when in reality the party was soft on Bush? I doubt he is attacking the Noam Chomskys alone. I will have to google his statements(the mYDD search doesn seem to work on past comments where the statement was quoted.

Obama has not stood up for the grassroots organization. It does not take much courage to stump for religion and act moderate on the war. Didn't he oppose the Iraq war too. So what the hell is he talking about when he acts like he is more moderate on the war issue. LIke I said, what is he talking about when he wonders out aloud if our party bashes wars for the sake of bashing wars.


by Pravin on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 11:50:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Somebody, anybody (none / 0)

Please list these dumb statements with sources... you know, text of his speeches or interviews.  


by yitbos96bb on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 06:08:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Somebody, anybody (none / 0)

Please read his book "Dreams of My Father" as well as a recent "Harper's Weekly" article about him. Obama's biggest weakness is that he is really just as stealth candidate for the ethanol industry in politics but that he was also an overachiever in his personal life. I'm sure he's a nice guy in person...and his story a positive one. But I've already seen many US blacks chide Obama for being completely outside the pale on racial issues.


by risenmessiah on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 08:08:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Somebody, anybody (none / 0)

Senator Obama has strong support from the black community in Chicago.  Much of the perceived black hate for Barack comes from his primary challenge of incumbent Rep. Bobby Rush in 2000.  There were also some perceived issues that Obama was jumping ahead of Jesse Jackson Jr instead of waiting his turn.  While Rush still doesn't like him, the rest of the black community really rallied around Obama during the primary, general, and beyond.

You will always see some criticism of Obama on race issues because he is not like Jesse Jackson.  The fact that he is not, however, is exactly why he may be President.  When the chips are on the table, he will earn and enjoy overwhelmingly strong support from black communities nationwide.


by LPMandrake on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 08:33:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Huh? (none / 0)

Because the Media loves him? He has a very high profile, almost higher then Hillary's these days.


by delmoi on Sat Nov 11, 2006 at 08:49:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread (none / 0)

Okay, I won't complain but Al Gore is at the top of my list from now on until he really, really, really officially drops out.

And Howard Dean for veep.


"Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest." -- Denis Diderot
by Stoic on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 03:10:31 PM EST

Re: 2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread (none / 0)

Gore and Dean are my dream ticket.  But Gore has no need to declare early and probably won't, so he's gonna miss a lot of these so "important" straw polls.  //hatever.


by j royale on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 03:55:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread (none / 0)

Gore should be on this list. He's my first choice.

Obama doesn't have the 'experience' yet, but he'd be a great VP choice. And I think he's smart enough to realize that his best shot at the WH is first as VP.


by CSears on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 03:14:01 PM EST

Re: 2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread (none / 0)

Yeah but per Chris's criteria, Gore is ineligible as he SAYS I AM NOT RUNNING.  Until Gore expresses a possibility of running and that he is contemplating he shouldn't be on the polls... It would be the same as adding Warner.  


by yitbos96bb on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 04:23:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread (none / 0)

Last few times I saw him quoted about it, he phrased his answer in ways that left the door open to changing his mind.

He isn't running NOW.  He might well not ever run again.  But he's not shut the door on it.


by RT on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 05:41:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread (none / 0)

I guess we disagree... He seems like he has found everyway possible to say no.  Even if you feel he left the door open, he hasn't said he is considering it for 2008... which was one of Chris's stips.  If he is like Obama and saying he is weighing his options, THEN put him in.

I like the guy... him in there makes him my #3 after Obama and Feingold (and frankly after those 2, my enthusiasm decreases dramatically unless you add Gore).  I'm jsut saying that I agree with Chris on this one.  


by yitbos96bb on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 05:51:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread (none / 0)

He doesn't have a lot of experience, but neither did Carter.  Carter spent 4 years in the state Senate and 1 term as Governor before he won the presidency.

Obama has served 8 years as a state senator and 2 as a US senator.  

The biggest thing Obama has right now is he is highly regarded by most democrats and independents.  He also has little baggage.  He doesn't have a lot of Senate Votes to work against him.  Many of his skeletons are public knowledge as he admitted to drug use in his first book.  He is charasmatic, and despite what some bitter people on this site feel, he is MUCH MUCH more than an empty suit.  He is extremely intelligent and radiates an aura I haven't felt since meeting Bill Clinton.  He has THAT kind of magnetism.  

We nominated a guy who was a WONK and lacked Charisma in 2004 and he failed against a very vulnerable President.  As much as I like Gore and think he got robbed in 2000, in truth, it should have never been at a point where Florida mattered.  Even with Tennessee trending red, he should have won his home state... but beyond that, he should have beaten Bush like a drum.  It just seems that experience isn't the most important thing in running the country or getting elected anymore.  All the presidents have SO MANY ADVISORS that they are in pretty good hands whether it be someone with Gore's experience or someone with Obama's experience.  It is all about charisma and people skills.  Plus if he nominates a more seasoned VP, he will be in great shape.  I personally would like to see Feingold as his VP, but there are other very good ones out there.  


by yitbos96bb on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 05:16:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread (3.00 / 1)

All the presidents have SO MANY ADVISORS that they are in pretty good hands whether it be someone with Gore's experience or someone with Obama's experience.

I remember people saying this about Bush.


by tatere on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 05:26:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread (none / 0)

Bush won...  underhandedly, but he won.  Bush also had the country in his hand for about a year until Iraq went bad.  Had he listened to the RIGHT advisors instead of Cheney and Rummy, we might not have won the house and senate on Tuesday.  Of course, if it meant 3000 US soldiers were still alive, I would make that sacrifice.  


by yitbos96bb on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 05:32:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread (none / 0)

I'm proud to be an American again. The first ittem on the Democrats' first agenda should be to restore tthe writ of habeas corpus to the Constitution. I have been wanting to  impeach and convict Bushh annd Cheney for three years until I remembered that that would give us President Hastert. Now, the thought of President Pelosi has a better ring.

I am filled with hate and vindictiveness and a lust for revenge and can  think of little but death and destruction to those who allowed these bastards to  lead us into this damn war because they were too weak and cowardly to speak out. It might appear  that Hillary's jump to the right was a little premature.  I want hearing, hearings, and more hearngs and I want everyone of these SOBs to be exposed and brought down, prison, disgrace, suicide, any or all will br fine with me. As of today 2,839 Americans have died in Iraq for absolutely no reason except that the neo-cons wanted a war and Bush gave them one.    


Mary Alice
by marya on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 03:15:45 PM EST

Re: 2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread (none / 0)

Yeah, but the Dems can't convict Bush or Cheney on Impeachment proceedings.  They will never get enough Republican Senators to equal the number of votes necessary... unless you can PROVE beyond a shadow of a doubt Bush knew and OKed the Plame exposure and then covered it up... THEN you could take him out.

Otherwise it is stupid to fight a battle like this that you CAN'T win, especially since Bush is a lame duck with two years left.  Last thing we want is to do what the GOP did to Clinton and make Bush popular again.  I do think there should be hearings absolutely, but you DO NOT IMPEACH unless you know you have a real chance of winning.  


by yitbos96bb on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 05:20:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread (none / 0)

I've been waiting till after the 06 election to start arguing about 08, but now we're there. Right now, I'm on the Obama bandwagon. I think charisma and personality win most presidential elections. I think he has both. I think he also has shown enough good sense in his few senate votes and in a career in public interest law and education, that I, at this point, am willing to trust his ability to choose wise advisers and make sound, considered decisions. Yes, he's got limited experience, but so did Kennedy, Carter, Clinton, (and Bush2). Experience doesn't get you elected, and as far as I can tell probably hurts your chances.
Maybe this is how the republicans chose Bush, a charismatic neophyte who seems to share their interests, and maybe we should try to do differently, but from their perspective, that pretty much worked.
My biggest hesitation with Obama is that he's never been through a tough campaign. Will he be able to handle what will inevitably be an awful dirty yearlong sleaze fest? If not, hopefully the primary will make this clear. I think a hard-fought primary will ultimately be good for the nominee, especially in Obama's case.

Also as my bold idea for the day: I think Obama (although this could be done by anyone perhaps) should talk to Al Gore, and right from the start, when he makes his announcement, say that Global warming and the waste and misuse of oil are among the critical issues of our time, and as soon as he's elected he will name Al Gore to a new cabinet level global-warming chieftan with authority over the DOE and the EPA and a staff at state.
I think Gore might jump at that. He could then be a cocampaigner, speaking only about those issues which he's really passionate about and actually speaks well about (I saw him 2 weeks ago about Cal prop 87, he was great). It doesn't hurt that it is a good idea to focus on that issue and that he would be ideal in that position.
And he brings along an awfully useful rolodex.


by jujube on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 03:17:31 PM EST

Re: 2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread (3.00 / 1)

Why on earth would anybody want Gore to campaign with them?  Gore would have made an excellent president, but he ran the worst Presidential campaign of the last 100 years.  Seriously, name one good decision he made in 2000?  Hell, he made Lieberfuck a household name.

I agree with your comments about Obama though.  He's the best of this lot.  You have to win the election in order to be President.  Democrats have picked two quality candidates the past two cycles that stunk at campaigning.  Let's pick a guy who's gonna fuckin' win.


by Double B on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 03:57:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread (none / 0)

Gore's biggest problem in 2000 was listening to his advisor/consultants. As an adjunct, to a hopefully, better run campaign, he could be used in the capacities he would be most effective in. He could speak to the base. to environmentalists. to the rich hollywood liberals who like him almost as much as clinton.

Having, as mentioned, just heard Gore speak and been astounded at how convincing and motivating he was, I think he's only effective when he cares about an issue. If you remember his speeches against the war, they were passionate and strong. Obviously on Global Warming he is that. During his campaign, I remember getting enthused that he had improved efficiency in government by saving money on paperclips, b/c he was into it. It was on things like the lockbox, and pretending to be pro death penalty, and avoid/claiming Clinton that he was wooden and uninspiring. As a hired gun, he could just focus on the things he's passionate about. In that capacity I think he'd be a big asset.


by jujube on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 04:23:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread (none / 0)

I'm right there with you on Obama (in case you couldn't tell as I get pissy with Stoller every time he bashed Obama).  Gore would be great for campaigning in the NorthEast and Pacific States.  I think he'd be a great Secretary of Energy in an Obama cabinet.


by yitbos96bb on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 05:23:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread (none / 0)

Jujube, great minds think alike.  I've been touting this idea for a year.  Whomever the Democrats nominate should immediately get Gore on board (pre-announced Secretary of Energy, Environment Czar, whatever). Give him a platform to do what he does best and let him craft and articulate the Democratic solutions to these crucial issues.  He might not be the greatest campaigner in the world but he's gained the public's (and much of the world's) respect for his knowledge and passion for the future of our planet.  He must be an important part of the Party's platform for '08.


by jukesgrrl on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 05:04:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Wes Clark or Gore (3.00 / 1)

Feingold would have been at the top of my list too. But for some reason, he gets almost no traction when he goes on camera.

Obama will find out that all his pandering will go to naught like Harold Ford.

Wes Clark gets my vote because he has not faltered one bit on talk shows even when he goes on FOX. THe guy was one of the few who backed Lamont openly. He has faced Bill O Reilly types and not backed down one bit. He does not come across as a rabid lefty but he does not insult the lefties to get ahead. There will be some swiftboating going on with him. So he needs to be prepared for that.

I just think he was rushed into it in 2004. With Wes, you will get a guy who is quick on his feet in public and will not marginalise any one segment.


by Pravin on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 03:18:12 PM EST

Re: Wes Clark or Gore (none / 0)

What you don't know about Obama could about fill the grand canyon Pravin.


by yitbos96bb on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 05:24:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wes Clark or Gore (none / 0)

Did you see Clark in the "Because of Iraq" commercial?  One of the absolute best ads this cycle.

Clark isn't my #1 choice but he's always been near the top for me.  Foreign policy issues are critical today, for better or for worse, and experience really counts for a lot.  What I wouldn't give for a leader whose judgment I could simply trust once again.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 05:25:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wes Clark or Gore (none / 0)

I like Clark, but I want to see proof he can stump and run a campaign.  Otherwise, I'd much rather see him as Sec of Def or Sec of State.


by yitbos96bb on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 05:33:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yes (none / 0)

people who have never held elective office scare me.  I wish he would just run for the senate, and serve out like six years, and then run


"You say the world has lost it's love I say embrace what it's made of" -Dar Williams
by Valatan on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 12:35:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wes Clark or Gore (none / 0)

Does Clark appear only on Fox News? I never see him on TV or read about him.

In the primary campaigns, I saw him on C-SPAN and wasn't impressed, and since then, I've been wondering why some people are so passionately in favor of him.


by joyful alternative on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 01:08:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wes Clark or Gore (none / 0)

He was on Bill Maher and he used to show up on CNN. But he blows all other democrats away when he stands up to Bill O Reilly and Hannity. For comparison sake, take Chuck Schumer. We all know Schumer is a brilliant guy. Yet he let Bill O Reilly characterize the democrats as having a Dean-Murtha problem on Iraq. Go to crooksandliars.com. They ahvce that segment.

Anyway, when O Reilly tried the same tactic with Wes Clark, Wes forcefully but politely told Bill he was wrong. Wes is also very articulate on Maher.


by Pravin on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 11:55:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread (none / 0)

I'll be looking forward to the data dump from that to run further analysis on.


Start Running Better Polls
by bolson on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 03:19:57 PM EST

Re: 2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread (none / 0)

Will somebody name one person who has worked harder, shown more leadership and competence, and the ability to bring people and power back to the Democratic party  than Howard Dean? He drug this party kicking and sceaming back into a power.  I am more than willing to drag him kicking and screaming into the White House. He is an honest, hard working American who loves his country what better qualifications for a President?  I know he has promised to stay at DNC, but we can draft him, and I hope we do. He has earned our gratidtude & our trust.


Everybody eats, nobody hits and there is no third rule.
by upperleftedge on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 03:21:38 PM EST

Re: 2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread (none / 0)

Dean would rock.  But as part of taking the DNC chair he promised not to run.  He'd be a great VP choice, however.  


by j royale on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 03:57:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread (none / 0)

We need Dean at the DNC.  No one else has his motivation or commitment to the 50-state strategy.  Sorry, Howard, but you've made yourself too indispensable.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 05:26:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Not a very exciting field without (none / 0)

Mark Warner, for me at least. I'm real excited about General Clark though. I know I'll get flamed for it though. Clark and Obama are our most electable options out of this bunch.


by mihan on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 03:44:01 PM EST

It'll be interesting to see how (none / 0)

McCain and Guiliani revamp their campaign strategies. I think they're popular but they know they're on the losing side of the Iraq argument. They can't stay lock-step with Bush and hope for a chance in 2008.


by Cleveland John on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 03:51:40 PM EST

Re: It'll be interesting to see how (none / 0)

I can't imagine that Gulliani would have much success with repug base.  It would be good for us nationally if won the nomination becasue the evangelicals would stay at home.


liberal08
by libintex on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 04:01:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

True (none / 0)

I don't think he'll even make it passed the primary. The Republicans will never never never let a pro-choice candidate win in the primaries.


by Cleveland John on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 04:08:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread (none / 0)

I'm looking forward to the blogs kicking the shit out of the DLC'ers now that '08 has begun.


by Bob Brigham on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 03:52:10 PM EST

Re: 2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread (3.00 / 1)

Looking at that list and eliminating the DLCers, it gets pretty lonely pretty quick.


by Lucas O'Connor on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 04:47:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread (3.00 / 3)

Rasmussen is polling Al Gore. Why aren't you?  I still can't get over that. It's so weird -- it's like the Netroots are in denial about this.


by attorney at arms on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 03:56:32 PM EST

Re: 2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread (none / 0)

There's clearly an overwhelming consensus for Gore.  I'm part of that consensus.

But Gore may not run, and we need to adjust to the idea of what we'll do if he doesn't.  Realistically weighing the other candidates is more meaningful than yet another straw poll where Gore wins by an overwhelming margin.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 05:28:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread (3.00 / 2)

You need to add Mike Gravel. He's a Democrat, a former Senator, and a declared candidate.


by Jerome Armstrong on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 04:02:41 PM EST

Re: 2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread (none / 0)

The reason why I say this isn't toward Bowers, but to all of us. I actually met the guy today at the Press Club. He seemed pretty reasonable to me. I don't know what chance he makes, but he is legit and makes as good a case as other people that have been considered viable. I just don't think the netroots need to place ourselves into the position of deciding which Democrats are fit, and which are not. It reminds me of what the press did to Ralp Nader in 1992-- yea, they kept him off of the polls in NH, even though he polled 3% of Democrats in the state. And the DP went along with it. Had they not, who knows, maybe Nader wouldn't have bolted in '96 to the GP.


by Jerome Armstrong on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 04:45:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

you should include Mike Gravel (none / 0)

for sake of consistency.

he has announced his candidacy as a democrat here.


mydd straw poll vote: 1. other (gore) 2. unsure 3. dodd 4. edwards 5. obama
by colorless green ideas on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 04:03:23 PM EST

I hate these straw polls... (none / 0)

...or rather the run-off type voting.

I'd rather waste my vote on weak candidates when it doesn't count.


by MNPundit on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 04:35:31 PM EST

Re: 2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread (none / 0)

Spitzer/Clark in '08.

'nuff said.


by milkbone on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 04:38:56 PM EST

Re: 2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread (none / 0)

I did not vote in your poll, because you did
not include Gore & Dean. But I voted here:
http://www.demochoice.org/dcballot.php?p oll=1984

by WeNeed3rdParty on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 04:39:20 PM EST

Re: 2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread (none / 0)

and here:
http://www.demochoice.org/dcballot.php?p oll=2008DEM
by WeNeed3rdParty on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 04:45:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread (none / 0)

Well if we're going to include people who aren't running, let's add JFK, FDR and George Washington to the list.


by Lucas O'Connor on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 04:50:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread (none / 0)

FDR all the way.  


by danielj on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 04:55:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread (none / 0)

I suggest Jesus. We need someone who can appeal to the values voters.

I'm not really sure they'd ever vote for a Democrat, but it is important not to let the crazy, peace-loving hippies control the party.


by Joe Gabriel on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 05:29:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread (none / 0)

Can I vote for Bobby Kennedy?  He really did deserve a chance.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 05:30:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

we picked up a 5th seat in tx! (none / 0)

hey guys it's official now, we got our 5th pickup in the tx lege.  fighting dem juan garcia has beat gene seaman!  w00t!

also, my 3rd choice counted in this straw poll.  =(


Visit us at TexasKAOS, where we're taking Texas back!
by annatopia on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 04:43:39 PM EST

Re: 2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread (none / 0)

Extremely un-scientific observation, but Evan Bayh went from no votes back when there were about 300 total, to the top person in the first round, and as I hit refresh, only his are going up.

I believe we have ballot box stuffers!  :)


by Dave in PA on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 04:44:12 PM EST

Re: 2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread (none / 0)

It is currently increasing at the rate of a few/sec, for Evan only.  


by Dave in PA on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 04:45:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread (none / 0)

I also noted when checking the result that nearly all the Bayh votes went to "None of These" when Bayh was eliminated.  It suggests determined voters, whether singly or in multiple copies.


by DaveMB on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 04:47:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread (none / 0)

As soon as his total eclipses the current winners (Feingold and Edwards), he will be number 1.  At the current rate, I give it 3 minutes.  


by Dave in PA on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 04:48:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread (none / 0)

It's a meaningless poll if it does not include Al Gore.


by Chango on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 04:48:35 PM EST

Evan Bayh? (3.00 / 1)

Is the Bayh campaign employing people to freep mydd?  

I just looked and Bayh won the first round with 25% of the vote.

Bayh?  Has he ever polled above 3% in any previous polls?


by Professor Foland on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 04:50:40 PM EST

Re: Evan Bayh? (none / 0)

See above.  He went from basically no votes when the total was around 300-400, to top of the first round in the last 15 minutes.  At one point, on each refresh his total was going up by about 5-10.

It has slowed down a bit now.  


by Dave in PA on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 04:51:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Evan Bayh? (none / 0)

Where do you think many of Mark Warner's supporters move to ?

I'm not committed to anyone yet.

But I think anyone here who does not think Evan Bayh will be one of the Top 3 major contenders by 2008 is in denial.

For millions of moderate Democrats  out there especially in midwestern, Rocky Mountains, Southwest & Southern states- Evan Bayh will no doubt get a lot of support especially with Warner gone.

A Bayh/Warner ticket would be powerful.

Bayh's experience alone would stand head & shoulders over most of the contenders in either party.


by labanman on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 05:20:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Evan Bayh? (none / 0)

Yeah, those candidates with the personality of Sheet Rock have done oh so well for us the last 20 plus years.


by yitbos96bb on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 05:38:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Evan Bayh? (none / 0)

Bayh was very essential in turning over three GOP seats to the Dems.


The Kentucky Democrat
by kydem on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 05:42:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Evan Bayh? (none / 0)

Not saying he wasn't.  But he has the same personality as John Kerry, which is very boring... almost like watching Sheet Rock.  He doesn't have the charisma of other candidates and against a Gooper who has a strong charismatic presence, he won't fair too well.  In short, McCain or Guiliani kill him... Against a Brownback or a Santorum, Bayh does very well.  


by yitbos96bb on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 05:47:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Sheet Rock (none / 0)

Argggh...I'm so tired of hearing this. Nothing personal, but when is the last time you saw Bayh speak - the '96 convention or something?

Please, take a look at this, tell me if he's 'like watching sheet rock.'


by blueflorida on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 06:42:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Evan Bayh? (none / 0)

A moderate Midwesterner is attractive.  And I think Bayh has some underappreciated qualities.

But could he please take some position, any position, aside from "Democrats need to be stronger on national security"?  I mean, he says this over and over and over again.  Does he have any plans to actually BE strong, as opposed to lecturing everyone on how important it is?


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 05:54:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread (none / 0)

Is this poll being freeped? Evan Bayh is coming out #1- which is pretty implausible.


by liberalminded on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 04:52:15 PM EST

Re: 2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread (none / 0)

I thought freeping this poll was the domain of Clark supporters?  Who does Bayh think he is?

;)


by danielj on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 04:56:57 PM EST

Re: 2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread (none / 0)

believe it or not there are actual clark supporters here.  count me among them.  


Visit us at TexasKAOS, where we're taking Texas back!
by annatopia on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 07:07:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread (none / 0)

What evidence is there that there was poll-stuffing?


by blueflorida on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 05:21:47 PM EST

Re: 2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread (none / 0)

That's a great question blueflorida.

Secondly, if Bayh supporters online started getting more involved in polling these websites like mydd, dailykos, I don't understand what's wrong with that.

As a Wesley Clark 04 volunteer, Clark supporters always got involved with online polls. My brother who was a John Edwards supporter did the same thing.

I don't understand why you would delete fellow rank & file democrats who are entitled to vote.

Unless it was just one person doing 500 votes, etc. Then, that's a different story.


by labanman on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 05:29:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread (3.00 / 1)

I think we found our Poll Stuffer ;-)


by yitbos96bb on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 05:39:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread (none / 0)

ytbos,

Before you accuse, you better make sure your 100%.

Chris Bowers can check me anytime, anyday.

I'm not even supporting anyone at this point.

Before you accuse, pls. make sure.

I express my opinion, and you immediately attack me.


by labanman on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 06:35:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread (none / 0)

Bayh's folks did not stuff the polls.

Bayh supporters posted the link in the facebook groups, my blog, Americans for Bayh blog, the yahoo group, myspace.

The facebook group alone is up to almost 2,000 members.

I voted once and once only.  I ranked the other candidates too.

I don't think you should exclude Sen. Bayh just because supporters came over to vote from myspace and facebook.


The Kentucky Democrat
by kydem on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 05:24:23 PM EST

Re: 2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread (3.00 / 1)

That's great. But this poll was supposed to be for MyDD raders, not hijacked but some outside group.
by Chris Bowers on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 05:36:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread (none / 0)

How do you know they don't read MyDD?  Especially if this site gets thousands of hits a day.


The Kentucky Democrat
by kydem on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 05:41:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread (none / 0)

Will not dignify with a response. But you can read what I wrote below.
by Chris Bowers on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 05:54:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread (none / 0)

I respect you chris, but that's a weak answer.


by blueflorida on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 05:42:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread (3.00 / 4)

Whatever. Evan Bayh does not have the overwhelming support ofthe MyDD community. Not even close. He was under 1% int he poll befor ethe stuffing began. He has never risen above 3% in any of these polls on MyDD ever.

If you can't see that the results of the poll were bullshit because of the stuffing, then that is your problem, not mine. Someone does not get 5 votes out of the first 800 votes and then get 800 out of the next 2,000 without stuffing. Doesn't work that way.

I condcuted the only scientific poll of the netroots--ever--back in May (see our "MyDD Projects" bar. There are seven or eight candidates on this list who were far more liked than Evan Bayh.

I have always tried to reveal new, sound, and interesting information on MyDD. Given my track record and my experience with polls, I think you should be able to understand why acitons such as this piss me off and, in my mind, redner the poll useless.

Do you consider that answer "weak" too? I have no problem with people supporting Bayh. I have a major problem with people fucking up my poll and, along with it, the information I distrubte via my blog.
by Chris Bowers on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 05:53:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread (none / 0)

I dunno, Chris. You seem to be uniquely bent out of shape because the results favor Bayh. I distinctly get the impression that if it were feingold or obama  then you'd be okay with it. Back when Warner was in the race, his grassroots supporters often sent out emails to participate in mydd polls. I know this because I was on those lists as a way of learning more about Warner and his emerging campaign.

The first three words of this post are "Just for fun." That distinctly implies "not scientific." Heck, Markos limits his polls only to registered dkos users so that he can use them as original reporting content. If you'd wanted to do that then you could have easily.

Unless you can show that there was one guy voting for Bayh 200 times or whatever, then your principle point of pique seems to be that the "wrong" people voted, but it's your site and your prerogative. But you shouldn't be abusing it as an excuse to slander Bayh and his supporters who it seems voted in good faith trying to show support for their guy.


by blueflorida on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 06:31:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread (none / 0)

So freeping is considered "voting in good faith?"  Interesting.  And for anyone to be suspicious about Bayh's sudden leap in the poll - if you really can't understand we are, which I doubt - use a baseball analogy.  It's like a hitter batting 200 his entire career and averaging 4 home runs, then exploding for 350 and 46 homers.  Evan Bayh has NEVER led a poll, anywhere,with the possible exception of his home state.


by cycleguy on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 09:15:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread (none / 0)


It's like a hitter batting 200 his entire career and averaging 4 home runs, then exploding for 350 and 46 homers.

Kind of like the Democratic Party. :)

Look, I really don't care if you're suspicious or not of Bayh's performance in the poll. The problem I have is that Chris is more interested in polling people who he knows already supports a set of "acceptable" candidates rather than actually allowing an open process that would allow us to gauge more than simply the narrow preferences of the Kos-Mydd-Atrios kool-kids set, and really allow he and the rest of us a chance to see who has not only high-volume support but also high-intensity support.

As I reflect on this more, I think that Chris pulled this same act against Clark supporters accusing them of "poll-stuffing" because the had the impertinence of actually being enthusiastic about their guy. I think we all learned that Bayh has a rather intense base of support online - it just took it a while to find mydd.


by blueflorida on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 10:08:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread (none / 0)

Quite frankly, you are full of shit. Your delusion that Bayh actually has the support of the netroots is crap. It is just shit, pure and simple. And don't confuse yourself that it is anything but that.

Yeah, a guy gets five vote out of the first 800, and then ends up with 40%. Yeah, that's natural. Whatever. Go ahead and continue to delude youself.
by Chris Bowers on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 11:19:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread (none / 0)

Who is the 'netroots' Chris? Is it just the people who've been reading mydd since 2003? No one's saying that Bayh has the support of the netroots. It's pretty clear though that he does have some support that hasn't been accounted for yet.


by blueflorida on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 09:21:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread (none / 0)

"I think we all learned that Bayh has a rather intense base of support online - it just took it a while to find mydd."

Please show me any poll that shows Bayh's "intense base of support."  Any! He doesn't have one.  It doesn't exist.  It never has existed.  It's not just Chris's poll that doesn't show it.  It's NBC, Washington Post, Rasmussen, Zogby, NY Times, CBS, etc.  So surely you can see that this sudden "surge" of Bayh support is poll stuffing - and if you can't see that blatantly obvious fact, I can only conclude that you are the one responsible for this "rather intense base of support!"  And good luck, by the way.  He's going to need it.


by cycleguy on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 05:09:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread (none / 0)

Any! He doesn't have one.  It doesn't exist.

As has been noted above, Bayh has six thousand people signed-up on Facebook and over a thousand on Myspace. Try dealing in facts next time.


by blueflorida on Sat Nov 11, 2006 at 08:19:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread (3.00 / 0)

We call this freeping.  It's fine for other people's polls, not so helpful for our own.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 05:56:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread (none / 0)

Also, Bayh's facebook profile has over 6,000 supporters.


The Kentucky Democrat
by kydem on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 05:26:19 PM EST

Re: 2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread (none / 0)

My first choice is Evan Bayh.  My second choice is Al Gore.  Since my third choice (Joe Biden) is the only option on your poll.  I am not participating.  Also, I am not a part of an organized effort to wreck your survey.


by Francis Vecellio on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 05:32:08 PM EST

Re: 2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread (none / 0)

I am a Feingold fan, but I fear that a twice divorced, presently single Presidential candidate might not wow the moralistic masses...what do you all think?


by bookishgirl on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 05:33:52 PM EST

Re: 2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread (none / 0)

Reagan was divorced.  Republicans are talking seriously about Newt Gingrich and Rudy Gulliani, who've both had multiple nasty divorces.  Also, John McCain.


by fwiffo on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 11:32:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread (3.00 / 1)

To me the most interesting result of the poll so far is not the eventual winner or even final two.  It's that there's a clear set of four candidates with very similar levels of support (Feingold, Edwards, Obama, Clark), and then a huge gap down to "everyone else".  

For Feingold and Clark, I can point to rather specific things they've done that run counter to received CW and more to our liking, clearly willing to piss some people off in the process.  (The same can be said of the unincluded Gore.) Edwards at least brings credibility as a former VP nominee.  Rhetorically, I like Obama as much as the next guy;  but really, why has his stock gone up so high so fast?  Purely on the rhetoric?


by Professor Foland on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 05:37:58 PM EST

Re: 2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread (none / 0)

That is part of it... But I would say Charisma is main part of it.  For many who have met him, he reminds you of Bill Clinton in that department.  While he doesn't cry like Bill did, he brings across this amazing level of empathy in people.  He comes off as a guy who cares, who wants to make America the best country it can be.  


by yitbos96bb on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 05:42:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread (1.00 / 1)

During an interview on This Week with George Stephanopoulos on Aug. 13, 2006, Feingold said that McCain would defeat him.  The transcript is posted at http://www.progressivepatriotsfund.com/v ideo/transcripts/feingold-on-this-week.h tml.  I understand the video is available at ABC.  If you're considering backing Feingold, you should see it. Here's Feingold's amazing self-labeling as a loser:

". . . GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS: You're also looking forward to the elections in 2008. And I want to get - go to something you said about our next guest Senator John McCain. You were talking to Playboy magazine earlier this year. I see that smile on your face, and this is what you said about McCain. You said, 'It may be that the Republicans will have such a desire to win again that they would actually accept a straight shooter. The general public would support him, and he would win easily."

Now, here's what I don't get. You're against the war in Iraq. You believe that the country agrees with you. John McCain wants more troops in Iraq yet you think he would win a general election easily. How do you square all that?

SENATOR RUSS FEINGOLD: Well, I'm going to retract every good thing I've ever said about John McCain right now. I've just - I've done way too much. You know, I love John McCain. He's a great guy. The fact is we do disagree on Iraq, but I think that on the overall fight against terrorism and that that's the number one priority there's a lot of agreement. John and I have been to Baghdad together twice and talked about this at length so obviously I'm going to be supporting a Democrat for president of the United States, but I have a very high regard for John McCain, and this is just an area of disagreement. We agree tremendously on reform and worked together well and I'm proud to serve with him in the Senate.

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS: But do you still think he would win easily even if you're the Democratic candidate?

SENATOR RUSS FEINGOLD: Oh, I think he'd beat me, but - you know, in terms of overall I think John would be a very strong candidate, but let's see what happens.

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS: Senator Feingold, thanks very much."

= = = I can't understand how anybody who wants the Dems to win back the White House could consider voting for somebody who keeps saying the GOP frontrunner would beat him.

After the above Feingold interview, a cooly confident McCain came on. He did not reciprocate Feingold's gushing.

There is no chance whatsoever that America is ever going to elect a president who identifies himself as a loser -- even after he's been given a chance to take it back. It's mindblowing that Feingold is apparently going ahead with his "exploration" of running in 2008.

What does it say about the Democratic Party that  somebody who's recently said on national TV that he'd lose to one of the GOP frontrunners continues to be included in the discussion of who's going to be nominated?


by Rroses on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 06:12:26 PM EST

Re: 2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread (none / 0)

I agree that calling oneself a loser is not the way to win an election. However, I hope Feingold stays in the race because he is right on most of the issues. Even if he can't win the nomination he can hold others to account in the process. He's also much more realistic of a candidate than Kucinich or Moseley-Braun were and so hopefully will be taken seriously in the discussions.


by jujube on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 06:51:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread (none / 0)

I really really want Feingold to run, because of what his presence will do to the discussion.  But I don't want him to win, because I think he'd make a really really good Attorney General.


by Professor Foland on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 09:43:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Better polling technology (none / 0)

I have perl, Java and C implementations of IRV and other rankings/ratings ballot counting methods. This source could be integrated into MyDD and tie voting to registered users, like the existing polls here do (Scoop records that you voted and what the vote was separately with no way of back-connecting them).

Alternately, a stand-alone site I built, BetterPolls.com, does at least require an image recognition check to slow down ballot stuffers. And on occasion I have post-processed results by hand to filter out obvious stuffers.


Start Running Better Polls
by bolson on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 06:16:58 PM EST

Re: Better polling technology (none / 0)

What, no Forth implementation? What if I want to run an online poll on a matchbox web server? :)#

This is, I believe, the best approach if the wish is to take a straw poll restricted to MyDD users. Though including that wish somewhere in the text of the post is a low-tech approach that also might contribute.


The words of the prophets are written on the subway halls
   and tenement halls
by BruceMcF on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 07:40:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread (none / 0)

I ranked a none-of-these high up (maybe 5 or 6) as a nod to Al Gore.


by lutton on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 06:26:40 PM EST

Re: 2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread (none / 0)

I think Gore might be considering it as much as some of those you included.  Id like to see 2 polls, one with EVERYBODY, one with the likley candidates.


by howardpark on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 06:39:59 PM EST

Re: 2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread (none / 0)

This is very neat. Hope you can try this again later with some kind of anti-stuffing mechanism (is there some way to rig it so that only logged in mydd users can vote?).

I do find the way that round 9 shows up:

Russ Feingold      
     750      (25.3%)

Wesley Clark       
     733      (24.8%)       

John Edwards       
     752      (25.4%)       

Barack Obama       
     724      (24.5%)

So we have a very nearly even split between those four, assuming they are the only candidates. Interesting.

Of course, one thing is that this poll doesn't really represent the "mainstream", just MyDD, right? A Russ Feingold presidency would make me happy but I kind of have to question whether Russ Feingold could score nearly that high among something closer to the general populace.


by Silent sound on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 07:04:37 PM EST

Re: 2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread (none / 0)

I think that if we can get excited by a candidate we should go with that until they are voted out. I was excited early about Dean and look at the results of that. I am glad I met him and worked for him, even if he lost. If we don't support the candidate that makes us happy then we will compromise ourselves into another John Kerry type candidate (or end up with a Hillary/Lieberman ticket....).

It think that people really voted for many Democratic candidates this election because they liked them and were happy with them. The ones that had trouble were the likes of Menendez where people knew they HAD to vote for them or risk the Republicans keeping control of the House or the Senate.


"Make it stop! Please! Make it stop!"
by OsoDelMar on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 12:36:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Wes Clark in 2008 ! (none / 0)

Wes Clark in 2008 because he's the ONLY top flight Dem that can effectively compete and win in ALL 50 states !

No other Dem can do so as effectively....and WIN !


by km4 on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 10:49:59 PM EST

Re: 2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread (none / 0)

I don't think race will be that big an issue except for the talking heads.  Ford lost more due his party rather than skin.  Tennessee is a southern red state that is suspicious of democrats.
Obama does have alot of small legislation but, the gop was not generous with democrats introducing bills.  Now with the Senate we can see what will happen.  So, I will reserve until then.
I doubt Gore will run.  I do like Richardson. And Edwards.  and Fiengold.  I feel Fiengold is underrated and am hoping he will be more exposed with committee assignments.  
I wait for the field to open up and for the Hilary love affair with the pundits to die down to see the others get some press.
by vwcat on Thu Nov 09, 2006 at 11:44:46 PM EST

Edwards? Edwards? (none / 0)

I can't believe that Edwards won the first straw poll. There has got to be a better candidate then that. He wasn't even good as a VP candidate.....

I think there are a bunch of us looking for someone to rise up and grab our hearts AND our minds and take us on a ride all the way to the White House. Maybe Vilsak (sp?) is that guy. I don't know enough about him. Dean was that guy for me in 2004. I had never heard of him before that election and I am certainly glad that I met him now.

Please everybody let us know if you have found that special candidate. I will quit my job and come work for them starting tomorrow if I can find the right person.

Thank you.


"Make it stop! Please! Make it stop!"
by OsoDelMar on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 12:31:02 AM EST

Re: 2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread (3.00 / 1)

You gotta trust me, but I know of focus groups of conservatives and Republicans who picked John Edwards over Bush in 2004.
Edwards has the charm that Clinton had, plus he's from the Democratic wing of the Democratic party.  A lot of people get it wrong, and think hes a conservative, or a DLC-er, but he isn't.  He's spent the last year supporting Democratic candidates; he's a progressive on social issues and a populist on economics.  This guy is a real Democrat.
Why is Clark is electable?  Because he was a general?  John Kerry was a WAR HERO, and that didn't help him.  Besides, aside from his primary run, has never campaigned for office before, AFAIK, and if that is the case, he has never won elective office.
"And so in the place of the palace of privilege, we seek to build a temple out of faith and hope and charity."-FDR
by jallen on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 01:44:52 AM EST

Re: 2008 Straw Poll and Open Thread (none / 0)

Why can't some of the candidates spend their extra funds supporting the recount in Florida?
Many of us have already spent everything we have on the election...and we know people like HIllary are sitting on warchests (not to mention many members of Congress)--why don't we have a campaign to pressure them or the DCCC?
by lauren on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 10:44:01 AM EST


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