always has my vote.

wow, i mean:  W-O-W!!!

So Pelosi really went to bat for him!

Mark my words (hey, that sounds sooo arrogant, like something Rahm would say, lol), Murtha is the best choice because he, in and of himself, gives us credibility on the Iraq issue, a man with a track record of toughness and not backing down, a guy who cannot be painted as a "San Francisco liberal", and last but not least, Murtha being Pelosi's lieutenant solidfies and unites the House leadership, which is a very good thing for everyone.

And so does Hoyer.

I'd rather they promoted Jim Clyburn to Majority leader.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/11/14 /93728/403

I just called my congressman, Michael Capuano (D-MA).  He's a member of the progressive caucus, and he's with Murtha.

Why do the newbies favor Hoyer? I mean, if they're as progressive as they're supposed to be.

I'm a Hoyer supporter, but I wouldn't be unhappy if Murtha won. He'll make a fine Majority Leader. I would still point out though that it's nearly impossible to get an accurate vote count for the race since the election is conducted by secret ballot. Few representatives would openly support Hoyer in the face of Pelosi's wrath, but a great deal may ignore whatever pledges they made and simply vote their conscience. I find it hard to believe that Murtha is in front when it comes to standing members, however. Barney Frank, Charlie Rangel, Maxine Waters, John Dingell and other senior members support Hoyer.

BTW, a lot of pro-Murtha posters throw out the talking point that Murtha's stance on Iraq is why the democrats are in the majority now. Obviously it was a brave move-I would never knock Murtha for that. However, doesn't the fact that the freshmen support Hoyer 2 to 1 tell you all you need to know about who they think was a greater help in the election?

The strategic brilliance of Murtha being leader is that if he gets hit on Abscam, the Dems have a giant opening to go after McCain on Keating 5.  Two years talking about Saint John's sins is a nice head start.  The next round is all about McCain, who's going to be anointed Bush's successor.  The more you can piss on his coattails, the more likely we are to retain Congress.  And then you have the obvious veteran leader in time of war issue.  Never underestimate Mrs. Pelosi.

Jack Murtha is no liberal, neither is Hoyer.

Murtha is anti-choice, pro-gun, and pro-corporate interests.  He's against the war, which makes him a good voice, but he and Stoyer are very similar politically.

Interesting that the new members are 2-1 for Hoyer which tells you who did more to get them elected.  Neither choice is great but I am not a real fan of the Speaker imposing her will on the caucus in this manner.  Traditionally, this has been a vote where the members get to choose and you need some of those.  The pre-1994 Dem leadership had become too lax and gave too much leeway to members but this seems to me like it goes too far in the other direction.  It will be interesting to see how it plays long term.

The netroots is way off on this. If Murtha hadn't said anything about Iraq, you'd be crucifying him. He's with Republicans on almost every issue that is important to DailyKos and the lot.

There are fields of difference between Hoyer and Murtha, politically. What they'll be willing to do for a Democratic majority are two very different things, and I assure you that Murtha's agenda will drive you nuts.

So, let me get this straight.  Nancy Pelosi spent the past two years criticizing the GOP for their rampant corruption problems, and then proceeds to push for corrupt Democrats to have positions of power within the caucus?!

Murtha: Veteran.  Blunt speaker.  I like the guy, but he isn't exactly the poster boy for clean government.  He just barely escaped indictment in the ABSCAM scandal.  Plus, he has been accused of the same 'pay to play' style appropriations that the GOP was criticized for.  But, Pelosi doesn't like Hoyer....

Jane Harman: Pelosi doesn't like her.  So, there's talk of her going with Alcee Hastings as chairman of the Intelligence Committee.  The problem?  He was impeached by a Democratic House and Senate while a federal judge!!

Mollohan: This guy should not even be considered for the chairmanship of the Appropriations or Rules committees....

All that talk about good clean government was bunk.  Pelosi wants to put her friends in charge, no matter how corrupt they may be.

Hoyers the one we've gotta root for... As K-streetish Hoyer is, Murtha is quite a bit worse, and why have our leader be almost as corrupt as Delay?

How about we all have a consensus nominee, like Robert Wexler, so that the dems legalize Cocaine and Prostitution? =)

I want Murtha to win just so we don't have to read another story about Dems divided and screwing over Pelosi.

Having said that, Murtha's ethics problems will only be a big story if he somehow stops the ethics reforms Pelosi wants (he won't) and in all honesty, he's going to be a lightning rod regardless. That's the job of a majority leader.

Seems to me about the only thing a Majority leader in the House does is stab the Speaker in the back. Ergo, Murtha makes the most sense to me.

As we've seen time and time again...power corrupts.  Sad to say that Murtha's track record speaks for itself.  Why fix something that ain't broken. As Chair of the Defense Subcommittee, Murtha will still be a leader/leading voice on Iraq but will have less temptation with the Majority Leader cookie jar.  The current leaders got us here....why screw it up before the Democrats take control?

I sure hope this info is incorrect.  I've been so happy about the election, and now Pelosi rains on the parade.

Our long-term majority is not dependent on the members representing patches of blue America or the flukes representing some red patches.  It is dependent on taking care of the members in the purple districts.  This is Steny Hoyer country, and he is the key to holding those seats.

I am glad Murtha is on our side, but he is not the right voice for our majority.

I really hope you are wrong about the outcome of this contest.

The Hoyer people are out in full force, huh? They're like scared little chickens.

You know why I believe Murtha is ahead? Because Hoyer is trying to smear him with this whole "ethics" swift-boating.

He would be gracious if he were ahead. It's smarter politics.

By the way, I don't think Hoyer even has a 2-to-1 advantage among the freshmen. I think it's even steven.

P.S. I keep hearing that people who initially supported Hoyer are now reneging and supporting Murtha.

Nancy, who is kicking serious ass, is twisting arms for votes.

I think Hoyer and everyone else will think twice before screwing her over. Women don't forget anything.

Not that I know much about it, but it seems like if Murtha wins it then Pelosi will have put the House on serious notice. The message will be: Do. Not. Cross. Me.

That seems like a good thing to me. The more party discipline the better.

It would be pretty hard to call Murtha a latte drinking,NPR listening,limo driving liberal wouldn't it?

As an unreconstructed lefty, I'm so proud to have the first ever woman as Speaker.  A San Francisco Democrat at that! :)

But I'm pretty mad at Pelosi for causing this in-fighting as the first act of her Speakership.  I've been reading the blogs but rarely post - and then stumbled on the actual Abscam tape (the nuts at American Spectator or one of those posted it).  But I watched it.  

It's horrifying.  We can't have Murtha leading this Congress - that WE just elected!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid= 2131539854655700584&hl=en

I'm not sure who is going to win - but i think that, if murtha wins, people will need to keep a close eye on him.  For the gays, he hasn't exactly been our friend.  Let's look at the record --

Employment Nondiscrimination Act (ENDA) -- Hoyer is a cosponsor.  Murtha isn't.
Hate crimes Protection Act  -- Hoyer is a cosponsor.  Murtha isn't, though he did vote in favor of an amendment.  

I'm not saying that Murtha won't vote for those things if they come up (as he has in the past), but is he going to be pushing for them?

Murtha has uniquely acquired the mantle of being THE voice of the military on capital hill. No republican has it. No other democrat has it. EVERYONE, including republicans and US corporate media recognizes it.

I suggest the democrats treat him nice and take advantage of the HUGE advantage his unique characteristic offers.

Why do people speak of Murtha's "agenda?" Since when will he get an agenda? This isn't a GOP House, where the Speaker is a puppet. This is Nancy Pelosi's show. Everybody's fairly well satisfied about her credibility, right? Is this who she wants? Yes. Then that's pretty much the end of it for me.

This isn't a resume' contest, nor is it a purity test. It's a job opening for the #2, and this #2 needs to be the equivalent of the hockey enforcer.

I don't mean it to be sexist, because there are a lot of men for whom this would be true, but the temptation to mess with Pelosi will result in a  visit from Murtha, who can be imposing and personally intimidating. Hoyer? Not so much.

Contrary to Pelosi starting a controversy over a party battle, I think she's trying to defuse one. If she picks a nominee, she knows there will be pressure to go with what she wants...thus helping providing resolution without an all-out brawl in the media.

Leave her be. I think she's doing fine so far.

He too centrist, hoyner is the better choice.

Whoops.