Strange goings on in Florida....arain

by RobertFL, Wed Oct 25, 2006 at 03:38:45 PM EST

Florida Democrats may think that the Foley Scandal has given them one more opportunity to gain a seat in Congress but the Democratic candidate there may be something of a Trojan Horse.

The October 6, 2006 Wall Street Journal described candidate Time Mahoney as a moderate liberal, a gun owner who sees Ronald Reagan as a 'political hero'. He says he is a conservative Christian. Positions actually to the right of some Republicans. Most curious though is his campaign manager Charles Halloran. The Village Voice wrote about Halloran in 2003 saying that he worked on New York Democrat Rev. Al Sharpton's campaign and did so at the bidding of Roger Stone, a Republican activist also described as a Republican trickster. Halloran reportedly has worked on other campaigns for Stone and uses Stone's Central Park address when in New York. Then there is the employer of Mr. Halloran's wife. According to an article in the February 2004 L.A. Weekly.com she has worked for the Carlyle Group, a military-industrial-complex corporation whose alumni include George H.W. Bush, Hamid Karzai, President of Afghanistan and a slew of others very much involved with the Bush administration agenda in the middle east.

Mr. Mahoney's `attributes' as reported in the Wall Street Journal and the credentials and relationships of his campaign manager urges the question of who is really behind the Mahoney campaign and consequently how will he vote if elected?

Village Voice Link December 21, 2004 Wayne Barrett
http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0451,barrett,59421,5.html

LA Weekly.com Link February 19, 2004 Doug Ireland
http://www.laweekly.com/news/news/a-prayer-for-rev-al/1974/

Wall Street Journal Link October 6, 2006 Yochi J Dreasen
http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB116009561443584466-XzwMIxzTVk_GteFJzejKpHxVqGs_20071006.html?mod=blogs




Tags: Congress, Foley, Florida, Mahoney (all tags)

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Re: Strange goings on in Florida....arain (3.00 / 2)

Listen, at this point of the race-either you give the Democrat the benefit of the doubt or you help the republican candidate win. Its an easy choice.

Until Mahoney does something negative if & when he gets elected, we should all unite in supporting Democrats across the nation.

Republicans are doing EVERYTHING, from TN, VA, MO, OH, NJ to FL- to DESTROY Democrats. Its desperation time for them. We don't need to help them.


by labanman on Wed Oct 25, 2006 at 04:07:18 PM EST

Re: Strange goings on in Florida....arain (3.00 / 1)

Right. Mahoney has the support of the unions and Max Cleland; good enough for now.


by lightyearsfromhome on Wed Oct 25, 2006 at 04:16:42 PM EST

Re: Strange goings on in Florida....arain (3.00 / 1)

Also, he's not a child predator.


by lightyearsfromhome on Wed Oct 25, 2006 at 04:16:56 PM EST

Re: Strange goings on in Florida....arain (3.00 / 1)

he's not a child predator.

He's also not a Republican for now but neither statement is exactly a ringing endorsement.

Substituting a Democratic troglodyte for a Republican one improves the Republican Party and degrades the Democratic Party.

I know nothing about Mahoney by the way and do not mean to comment on him.  

I am less than pleased with the makeover of the Democratic Party to Republicans Lite by Bill Clinton.  There are some signs of an impending revival which are mighty welcome to this liberal.  The term has been besmirched enough by the like of the Clintons.

Best,  Terry


by terryhallinan on Wed Oct 25, 2006 at 05:17:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Strange goings on in Florida....arain (none / 0)

If we expect independents and Republicans to cross over to vote for Democrats, we have to be prepared for the party to start stretching to the right.  Otherwise, we really are just the "not them" party.


by Lucas O'Connor on Wed Oct 25, 2006 at 06:34:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Strange goings on in Florida....arain (none / 0)

"If we expect independents and Republicans to cross over to vote for Democrats, we have to be prepared for the party to start stretching to the right."

That theory has 12 years of failure to back it up.


The choice is simple: A President who voted for the worst of Bush's odius agenda, or one who didn't.
by Liberal Avenger on Wed Oct 25, 2006 at 10:37:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Strange goings on in Florida....arain (none / 0)

I'm not saying you have to cater to them, but you do have to accept them.


by Lucas O'Connor on Thu Oct 26, 2006 at 02:58:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Strange goings on in Florida....arain (none / 0)

The Democratic Party has been catering to the right, and losing.

It will be interesting to see if those who are catering to them this time this time will carry on the losing tradition.


The choice is simple: A President who voted for the worst of Bush's odius agenda, or one who didn't.
by Liberal Avenger on Thu Oct 26, 2006 at 07:56:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Strange goings on in Florida....arain (3.00 / 1)

If we expect independents and Republicans to cross over to vote for Democrats, we have to be prepared for the party to start stretching to the right.

J. William Fulbright was once one of the most respected Democratic senators.  He let it be known that in order to stay a senator from Arkansas he had to support the fight for segregation though his heart wasn't in it.

There are prices far too high to pay.  The results of a little whoring are quite predictable.

I offer you refutation of conventional wisdom with the extraordinary example of Wisconsin.  Wisconsin elected both Joe McCarthy and currently Russ Feingold.  Berkeley radicals have been wryly said to consider Wisconsin liberals communists.  

Coastal liberalism is pablum compared to the fiery liberalism of Wisconsites. Wisconsin is quite capable of electing the most debauched reactionaries as well as true liberals.

Speaking the truth as one believes it is attractive to most anyone.  Are you not sometimes taken with views you deeply oppose by a proponent speaking honestly from the heart?

Compromising with evil leads nowhere but down.  That does not mean one cannot tolerate dissent and admit error.

I will not support nor will I vote for anyone who thinks torture is a fine thing.  You think I should support torture because the Republican torturers are somehow worse?

Won't do it.

By the way, independents seem to be going overwhelmingly for Democrats this year.  Why is that you think?

Best,  Terry


by terryhallinan on Thu Oct 26, 2006 at 01:26:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Strange goings on in Florida....arain (none / 0)

I didn't say we have to change what we stand for. All I'm saying is that we can't reject people just for being former Republicans.  If former Republicans aren't welcome in the party just because of that, then we're just plain stuck until another generation passes.


by Lucas O'Connor on Thu Oct 26, 2006 at 03:01:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Strange goings on in Florida....arain (none / 0)

Former Republicans are welcome so long as they aren't jumped to the head of the class. Let them first toil in the grassroots and prove themselves like everyone else has to.


The choice is simple: A President who voted for the worst of Bush's odius agenda, or one who didn't.
by Liberal Avenger on Thu Oct 26, 2006 at 07:58:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Strange goings on in Florida....arain (none / 0)

It's always the right time to tell the truth.


The choice is simple: A President who voted for the worst of Bush's odius agenda, or one who didn't.
by Liberal Avenger on Wed Oct 25, 2006 at 10:38:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Strange goings on in Florida....arain (none / 0)

"Substituting a Democratic troglodyte for a Republican one improves the Republican Party and degrades the Democratic Party."

You know, that kind of thinking is the reason the Greens and Libertarians are and will remain fringe parties.  Would you really rather be an ideologically pure minority than a majority with some members who are only barely on your side?  Some districts will only ever elect conservatives; it's better for us if they elect conservative Democrats, rather than the far more conservative Republicans who are the only alternatives.


Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama for President! Beat McCain!
by Alex on Wed Oct 25, 2006 at 11:20:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Strange goings on in Florida....arain (3.00 / 1)

"Substituting a Democratic troglodyte for a Republican one improves the Republican Party and degrades the Democratic Party."

You know, that kind of thinking is the reason the Greens and Libertarians are and will remain fringe parties.

No it isn't.

If you think the Greens and Libertarians in any way represent mainstream thinking, you are not paying attention.  Even Ralph Nader objected to the Greens platform and plainly admitted he used them for convenience because of the infrastructure.

Nothing at all wrong with staying clean.  

Surveys constantly show that the liberal side of issues overall is favored by the majority of the population.  And yet Democrats struggle in the wilderness trying to appeal to the rightwing.  Think there might be something wrong with that?

Do you oppose torture?  I do.  Why should I support and vote for people that favor torture?  To be "with it?"

It is your kind of thinking that in my view has made people pretending to be liberals so reviled for their hypocrisy.

Best,  Terry


by terryhallinan on Thu Oct 26, 2006 at 10:28:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Strange goings on in Florida....arain (none / 0)

"Surveys constantly show that the liberal side of issues overall is favored by the majority of the population."

The majority of the population in the U.S. and the majority of the population in Florida Congressional District 16 are two different things.  To win and hold the congressional seat for FL-16, we need a candidate whose views are reasonably close to those of a majority of voters in FL-16.  Now, it's possible a flaming liberal could win that district in this cycle because of the way Foley self-destructed, but said liberal would be a one-term congressman -- and might just lose to district resident Anne Fucking Coulter in 2008.

"And yet Democrats struggle in the wilderness trying to appeal to the rightwing.  Think there might be something wrong with that?"

On the national level, yes; in right wing states and districts, no.  If we get a majority, we'll be in a much better position to enforce party discipline on our more conservative members, the way the rethugs do with their moderates.  They can vote to please their constituents when it won't actually change the outcome, and bring home the pork they need to get reelected, but on close votes on important issues they have to toe the party line or face the consequences -- and the really egregious bills, like legalizing torture, will die in committee, instead of being sent to the floor where our tame troglogytes could vote for them.


Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama for President! Beat McCain!
by Alex on Thu Oct 26, 2006 at 03:07:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Strange goings on in Florida....arain (none / 0)

It's a conservative district; you're not going to get a progressive there.  Better a conservative Democrat than a conservative Republican.  Remember, the single most important vote he casts is for the House leadership.  If we control the agenda, we can afford to have some conservative Democrats who cross the aisle on some issues.  Heck, given how powerful the leadership is in the House, it's better to have a Democrat who takes the Republican position on 75% of bills than a Republican who takes the Democratic position on the same percentage, as long as they each vote for their respective parties' leadership.  And in practice, those two hypothetical Congresscreatures would never appear in the same district, anyway.  For any given congressional district, the Democratic candidate is virtually always going to vote our way more often than the Republican.


Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama for President! Beat McCain!
by Alex on Wed Oct 25, 2006 at 11:17:14 PM EST

Re: You think we'd be competitive in.... (none / 0)


Do you think we would be enjoying landslide victories for Governor in VERY RED STATES of Tennesse, Oklahoma, Wyoming, Kansas, Colorado, Ohio, Arizona and Arkansas on November 7 if we had " Liberal" Democratic candidates for Governor?

Do you think Democratic candidate for Governor  Jerry Brady would be in a deadheat in IDAHO today
if he was a "Liberal"?

Do you think Claire Mc Caskill & Harold Ford would even be in this position of possibly, just possibly winning in MO & TN if they run as Liberals?

Do you think we would be in this position to takeover the House if ALL our Democratic candidates were "Liberals Democrats'?

Do you think we would be thisclose to taking over the Senate if we had an all "Liberal" team running for Senate in all the Red states.

Again, whether you like it or not, Moderate, Liberal & Centrist Democrats NEED each other.
( IF WE WANT TO WIN A MAJORITY IN THIS COUNTRY)

A Barbara Boxer type CANNOT win in Kansas. A Howard Dean type CANNOT carry Wyoming. A Jesse Jackson Jr. CANNOT carry IDAHO!

Liberals DO NOT own the Democratic party. Moderate Democrats DO NOT own the party.Centrist Democrats DO NOT own the Democratic party.

IF WE ARE GOING TO BE THE MAJORITY, YOU HAVE TO START RESPECTING THE VIEWS of " Red Democrats" in Red States.

Your typical rank & file Democrat in Wyoming will be to the Right of your typical Democrat in NY. Your average Kansas Democrat will be to right of your typical CA voter.

Stop this Purity bullcrap!


by labanman on Thu Oct 26, 2006 at 02:10:11 AM EST

Re: You think we'd be competitive in.... (none / 0)

"Do you think Claire Mc Caskill & Harold Ford would even be in this position of possibly, just possibly winning in MO & TN if they run as Liberals?"

Sure. Voters respect politicians who stand on their beliefs. The trouble Democrats have is, when they run as Republicans, they look like they're standing on beliefs other than their own.


The choice is simple: A President who voted for the worst of Bush's odius agenda, or one who didn't.
by Liberal Avenger on Thu Oct 26, 2006 at 07:55:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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