Feingold to vote yes on Roberts

I have not really engaged in the matter much, and it's not changed from day one, when we found out Roberts was a DC insider, as a losing cause. I understand the arguments that are made for building a number for the second nomination, seemed logical, but that doesn't seem to have been an effective sway for the votes against Roberts. I think they probably drew straws, and Baucus got the short stick, and Reid said, let me go first to feed the left a bone (that's just my imagination). Anyway, Fiengold is on board now, from the PR email they sent out:

From Senator Feingold,

Mr. Chairman, I will vote in favor of the nomination of Judge John Roberts to be the Chief Justice of the United States.   This has not been an easy decision, but I believe it is the correct one.  Judge Roberts's impeccable legal credentials, his reputation and record as a fair-minded person, and his commitment to modesty and respect for precedent have persuaded me that he will not bring an ideological agenda to the position of Chief Justice of the United States and that he should be confirmed....

We all know that Roberts will be easily approved with a 60+ majority. But, the question remains, will any of the '08 Senator contenders vote against Roberts? Sounds like a good poll question.

 

Poll
Will any of the potential '08 nominees vote against Roberts? Is Yes, whom?
No, all of them will vote for Roberts
Kerry
Bayh
Clinton
Biden
Other, whom?

Votes: 872
Results : Vote Link : Polls

Display:


Yeah we have been arguing about it (none / 0)

For the last hour.

http://mydd.com/story/2005/9/22/123419/148

by yitbos96bb on Thu Sep 22, 2005 at 02:02:50 PM EST

Obama will vote yes (none / 0)

since he has become the Clintons puppy dog.
Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.
by Parker on Thu Sep 22, 2005 at 02:03:35 PM EST

Re: Obama will vote yes (none / 0)

I get that Obama has not voted the way some of us might like all the time, but why the specific link to the Clintons? How specifically has he been their puppy dog?
by MrExcitement on Thu Sep 22, 2005 at 04:02:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama will vote yes (none / 0)

On what votes has Obama failed to do the right thing?

No, he did not vote for the bankruptcy bill. That's an urban legend and has been exposed.

The history of the left is a history of purists betraying the progressive movement so that they can feel good about their righteous selves.
by Populism2008 on Thu Sep 22, 2005 at 04:13:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama will vote yes (none / 0)

He voted for Condoleeza Rice. which wasn't the right thing to do.
by MrExcitement on Thu Sep 22, 2005 at 04:25:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama will vote yes (none / 0)

I can live with Condi rice.  She will be gone in 4 years.  She is only as powerful as Bush is anyway, and with his popularity low, that isn't very much.

by yitbos96bb on Thu Sep 22, 2005 at 04:42:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Biden (none / 0)

Biden voted no in committee, I can't see him voting yes in the full vote.
by yitbos96bb on Thu Sep 22, 2005 at 02:04:30 PM EST

Bayh (none / 0)

I sincerely hope he votes no. He hasn't decided yet.
by JRyan on Thu Sep 22, 2005 at 02:07:59 PM EST

Kerry is a No (none / 0)

Kerry sent out an email yesterday saying he would vote no, so unless he pulls a flip-flop as Bush would say
by duncin32 on Thu Sep 22, 2005 at 02:08:03 PM EST

Predictions... (none / 0)

Feingold already says Yes, Kerry has said no..Biden will vote No...Bayh and Clinton will vote, Yes..cos once again they know that liberals because they are a numerical minority can be sacrificed at the altar of political convenience in the name of moderation. NARAL, NOW, People for the American Way etc will still back Clinton cos she is such a darling star that even if she kicks them in the nuts they'll still vote for her..and of course, why not...afterall they are so short-sighted they sell their own interest at the expense of the overall goal by endorsing punk ass and mealy mouthed republicans like Chafee and Specter who whore themselves around for political survival, talk from both sides of the mouth and still vote for the extreme right wing agenda in Congress.

I gotta give it you them liberal interest groups, had they been around during Jesus' ministry..we' never have needed Judas !!

by dantata on Thu Sep 22, 2005 at 02:36:08 PM EST

Re: Predictions... (none / 0)

Well, Bayh voted against Alberto and Rice, as well as against Owens and Brown. He might vote no.
by JRyan on Thu Sep 22, 2005 at 02:39:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Predictions... (none / 0)

Bayh would be crazy to vote against Roberts, he'd suffer immensely in IN for it...Roberts is a Hoosier and Bush carried the state in almost the same margins that Bayh did. Also how would Bayh explain voting against Roberts when Feingold with an 83% liberal rating voted for Roberts and Leahy with a lifetme average of 90% did the same. Clinton..I'm not sure but knowing how desperate she is about sucking up to power, I expect her to vote for Roberts.

Oh God send us an electable moderate Gov with no voting record whatsover, for a person who wants to run for president..being in the Senate is major handicap.

by dantata on Thu Sep 22, 2005 at 05:25:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Predictions... (none / 0)

I disagree. Bayh is as safe as can be in Indiana, and, with luck, will never have to run statewide again.

"Also how would Bayh explain voting against Roberts when Feingold with an 83% liberal rating voted for Roberts and Leahy with a lifetme average of 90% did the same."

Because Roberts made a mockery of the hearing. He gave almost no concrete answers. Its probable that Bayh might vote for Roberts, but he certainly has reason to vote against him.

"Oh God send us an electable moderate Gov with no voting record whatsover, for a person who wants to run for president..being in the Senate is major handicap."

Bayh isn't so bad, he was a governor for 8 years. I think you should also look at Mark Warner, he might be your guy.

by JRyan on Thu Sep 22, 2005 at 05:42:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Predictions... (none / 0)

I do like Mark Warner..and my ideal ticket would be Mark and Evan Bayh (with Warner as Pres)..but I don't know...Indiana reminds me of SD..and I don't want what happened to Daschle (or what may very well happen to Kent Conrad, happen to Bayh)..some of those folks in deep red states tend to buy into a lot of the bullshit the Rethugs feed them..
by dantata on Thu Sep 22, 2005 at 06:22:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Predictions... (none / 0)

I dunno, my ideal ticket would be the other way around, considering the fact that Bayh has more experience than Warner. And when was the last time the republicans put somebody up against Bayh who broke 40%? I can't pick out a single republican who could beat Bayh. In fact, Mitch Daniels himself wouldn't even come close.
by JRyan on Thu Sep 22, 2005 at 06:48:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Predictions... (none / 0)

Daschle got 65% in 1992 and 62% in 1998. look how safe he turned out to be.
by johnny longtorso on Thu Sep 22, 2005 at 08:48:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Predictions... (none / 0)

I know, but my point is that no R congressional rep or even the GOP governor can take Bayh on and win. If Lugar clones himself, then Bayh is in trouble, but excepting that he is invincible in Indiana.
by JRyan on Thu Sep 22, 2005 at 09:06:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Predictions... (none / 0)

I disagree..Indiana has become even more republican since the 1990s, when Bayh was Governor. Its Republican trend is only second to NE..and what happened to Daschle could very well happen to Bayh if he is not careful. Those healthy margins could dissappear if the 45% of the GOP base that voted for Bayh is made to believe that he is an obstacle to the GOP agenda they want in Congress...they turned out Baron Hill in Southern Indiana..(a less Republican part of the state)..Bayh is not invincible!!
by dantata on Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 12:37:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Predictions... (none / 0)

Who could possibly beat him then?
by JRyan on Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 01:08:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Predictions... (none / 0)

Who can beat him then?
by JRyan on Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 01:10:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Predictions... (none / 0)

Posting error, sorry.
by JRyan on Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 01:13:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Predictions... (none / 0)

Some in the GOP congressional delegation for sure...I don't disagree that Bayh is strong in IN, except whether such strength is reversible..I propose to you that any Democratic US Senator sitting in a state that leans strongly in the GOP column can be knocked off if he/she is sufficiently viewed as kowtowing to the his/her party's base..if this was Bayh in 1998, I can tell you that he is probably as safe for as long as he wants the seat..but now that he is running for Prez, I can tell you that he has to be extra careful. I think Pence,Buyer and maybe Chocola could do it though
by dantata on Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 02:45:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Predictions... (none / 0)

Bayh just decided to vote against Roberts, so he is almost certainly running for president. Hopefully, we will not have to see whether Bayh can be beaten or not.
by JRyan on Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 03:59:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Predictions... (none / 0)

I don't want to overblow the Roberts vote..it might turn out to be much..but I still think it was a mistake to vote against him..come 2007..it will be back to haunt the Senator in the primary and the general...thank God Mark Warner is not a US Senator
by dantata on Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 05:53:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Statement Disappeared (none / 0)

I can't find it any more. That's disappointing. He at least gave an account for his decision.
by Left in the West on Thu Sep 22, 2005 at 02:41:06 PM EST

I agree with Russ (3.00 / 5)

Okay, I know this may not be popular at ALL with liberals and alot of proponents of Feingold, but I agree with the Senator here.

While I'm sure me and Judge Roberts agree on absolutedly nothing judicially speaking I would vote to confirm him. He is adequately qualified, seems to have an in-depth excellent understanding of the law and the Constitution, he doesn't seem to be a dogmatic ideologue and could perhaps be a pragmatic reassuring Chief Justice.

We may not like it but George W. Bush is the President and he should have reasonable wiggle room in his appointments. I, in no way, shape, or form, view the Senate as a rubber stamp for the President, but I see no coherent reason to vote no on Judge Roberts.

I admire Senator Feingold for his independence and this is no exception. Knowing he may anger liberals and hurt himself politically, he still went with his gut instinct, when the cards were down he chose to stick to priniciple unlike people like John Kerry (who voted for Scalia) and Joe Biden.

Thanks Russ.

Tennesseans for Feingold
by ben114 on Thu Sep 22, 2005 at 02:54:01 PM EST

Agreed (none / 0)

I actually find Roberts to be a surprisingly good pick, considering the retards Bush usually dredges up from the corporate ranks of the military-industiral-incompetance complex.

At this stage, Roberts' ability to actually spell his name is pretty impressive next to grade-X knuckle draggers like Rummy, Cheney, etc.

But, I admit I never had too much of a problem with Rehnquist either, and I'm pretty convinced Roberts will be further left than Rehnquist was.

On the whole, the Other Side deserve fair and good representation, just as much as we deserve it.

At least for once Bush promoted someone who is qualified to represent the conservative movement, and seems unlikely to be a total nutjob rubberstamp like Scalia and Thomas.

by jcjcjc on Thu Sep 22, 2005 at 03:02:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Roberts is no big deal (3.00 / 1)

It's not so much Roberts' qualifications, as the simple fact that he's replacing Rehnquist.

The liberal case against Roberts is that we don't know what he stands for. He could be another Clarence Thomas -- someone who says the right things to get confirmed, but does all the wrong things once he's on the bench. Or he could not be. We just don't know.

But the fact is Roberts is just replacing another hard conservative. At best he'll be a little less conservative than Rehnquist. At worst he'll be another Scalia or Thomas. Either way, the number of conservative votes on the SCOTUS doesn't change.

By voting yes, Democrats can say "Hey, you got yours. Now this one is the O'Connor replacement, and we expect such a nominee." The Dems can block this one with credibility. It's not like they're "obstructing" every nominee.

I think the Left is getting all bent out of shape over nothing if they truly believe Roberts should be blocked.

I think the real fear on the Left is that if we don't block Roberts, we won't block the next one either. That fear is real. I feel it to. The Left is desperate for the Democratic party to show some spine, and they want them to do it here. But I don't think Roberts is where we need to make a stand. His confirmation changes nothing, and so there's not much to really stand up against.

I think the Democratic Party is playing this exactly right, at least for now. If they cave on the next nominee, then yes, we've been screwed, but I think in recent months the Dems have been growing their spine back, and I think they will stand up to the next nominee should he/she be an egregious one.

TAKE BACK OUR PARTY: Democracy Bonds
by LiberalFromPA on Thu Sep 22, 2005 at 03:19:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Two things: (none / 0)

First of all, I really don't care how conservative Roberts is relative to Rehnquist or Thomas or Ginsburg. What worries me -- and should worry you -- is that he's a career political operative for the Reeps. Think about that: His job has been to concoct legal arguments which promote the Reep agenda. And now he's going to be the administrator of the Supreme Clown Posse and the whole federal judiciary. He's got "judicial activist" written all over him.

Second: Even if every Dem in the Senate votes against Roberts, he won't be blocked. And the Reeps have aptly demonstrated that cooperation will get us nowhere. I don't see any currency to be gained by supporting this appointment.

Yeah, I'm cynical.
by catastrophile on Thu Sep 22, 2005 at 03:58:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Two things: (none / 0)

In spite of my unwillingness to condemn any Democratic Senator who votes to confirm, I hope most of them, but not all of them, vote no.  I've written to both my Senators urging them to vote no.

I think it is a political win to get less than 100% of the Democratic Senators to vote no.  We can say that the Republicans are mere rubber stamps for the unpopular policies of an unpopular president.  And they can't turn it against us as playing politics with the nomination.  (Well, they can, because they are pretty good at turning everything against us, but at least with a few Democratic yes votes, they will have a hard time saying that we were the ones who voted on strictly political grounds.)

Not long ago, Feingold was everyone's darling on this site, and Biden was widely condemned.  I'm happy to have both of them, and yes, even Lieberman, in the Senate, as long as they're not propping up Bill Frist and Trent Lott and their band of thugs.  Sorry if that gets me troll rated.  Or if it's too asinine to respond to.

by nocloset on Thu Sep 22, 2005 at 04:15:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Two things: (none / 0)

So far these senators outside of those on the committee have announced they will vote to confirm.

Baucus Montana
Johnson South Dakota
Bingaman New Mexico
Nelson Nebraska
Nelson Florida
Pryor Arkansas

add that to the three on the committee and you have nine Democrats but more will probalbly follow.

by THE MODERATE on Thu Sep 22, 2005 at 04:41:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Two things: (none / 0)

add

Byrd West Virginia to confirm

by THE MODERATE on Thu Sep 22, 2005 at 05:00:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Two things: (none / 0)

No you have a well thought out and written opinion.  I just happen to disagree, but I won't troll you for that.

by yitbos96bb on Thu Sep 22, 2005 at 04:45:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I disagree, (none / 0)

I think getting as many Dems as possible on board to vote no is important -- because defections damage the credibility of my recommended course of action, which is to vote against Roberts but generously opt not to filibuster his confirmation. I lay out my argument here.
Yeah, I'm cynical.
by catastrophile on Thu Sep 22, 2005 at 04:50:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Two things: (none / 0)

First, my gut tells me that Roberts won't be the activist that Scalia or Thomas is. But even if he is, that still doesn't change the voting pattern of the court. A conservative vote is a conservative vote, and he's essentially the same as Rehnquist. Roberts gets confirmed = nothing changes.

Second, I know he won't be blocked even if every Dem goes against him. Only a filibuster would do that, but I've seen people calling even for that (not here, I don't think, but def. over at DKos).

But voting "Yes" on Roberts, who will get confirmed anyway, gives Dems the patina of not just being anti-Republican/ant-Bush, which gives them greater credibility when it comes to stopping the next nomination.

I do think the Dems have a plan here. The bigger fear isn't whether or not Reid has a plan and knows what he's doing, but whether or not he won't have Dem traitors foil his plans next round.

TAKE BACK OUR PARTY: Democracy Bonds
by LiberalFromPA on Thu Sep 22, 2005 at 06:48:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Roberts is no big deal (none / 0)

Well-stated, and I mostly agree with you. I think Harry Reid threaded the needle pretty well, with a polite explanation for his "no" vote.

But I'd still like to see as many "no" votes as possible from the Dems, couched with the explanation that he didn't say enough of substance at his hearings to make clear his positions enough to justify a confident "yes." (Which is certainly what I would have liked to have heard out of Feingold's mouth.) That might at least put more of an onus on the O'Connor replacement to say more at his/her hearings, so we can get a better read on him/her. In the long run, though, I can't see the difference as to whether we get 20, 30, or 40 "no" votes making a huge difference in terms of what sort of goober Bush nominates for the O'Connor seat.

And I think your assessment that Roberts, while still a conservative partisan, might be a slight improvement on Rehnquist is about right. I felt he actually did say enough about privacy at his hearing for me to feel like he's a bit of an improvement... like if given a chance he'd just take a cheese grater to Roe, instead of an axe like Rehnquist. Most notably, he said he approved of Griswold and when talking about the general right of privacy used the word "emanating," which really perked my ears up -- it suggests he's not much of an originalist, and certainly isn't a word that Scalia, Thomas, or Bork would ever use.

And although he didn't say anything about it one way or the other, Roberts is pretty clearly going to be bad news on the unsexy nitty-gritty stuff like the Commerce Clause, executive power, and limits to Article III jurisdiction. But even on the Commerce Clause, it's easy to forget that Rehnquist, not Scalia, was the real architect of the cases that we most closely associate with the constitution-in-exile madness (Rehnquist authored both Lopez, which struck down the Gun Free School Zone act, and Morrison, which struck down the Violence Against Women act, both on Commerce Clause grounds). So, realistically, it's hard not for Roberts to be an improvement over Rehnquist. That alone isn't a justification for voting "yes" for him, but it's some cold comfort we might take.

by Crazy Vaclav on Thu Sep 22, 2005 at 06:31:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I agree with Russ (none / 0)

Democrats can concede that Roberts is well-qualified & within the mainstream of conservative judicial thought, thereby deserving confirmation based on historical standards, while maintaining the position that a Democratic President would have chosen a much different (better) candidate. It's the only realistic position for a party that doesn't control the Presidency or the Senate. By taking that position, Dems avoid the label of obstructionism, position themselves to benefit from any public dissatisfaction with decisions of the Roberts Court, & strengthen the case for future Democratic Presidents to appoint Justices more to our liking whatever the makeup of the Senate.

Public opinion is overwhelmingly in favor of confirming Roberts & it would not have been politically advantageous for Democrats to attempt to block him. This vote probably hurts Feingold a little in the primaries, but would actually make him a bit more electable if he receives the nomination.

by SLinVA on Thu Sep 22, 2005 at 03:26:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Feingold MUST think... (none / 0)

...there is at least a chance for Roberts to be the next Souter.  That is, he must think that Roberts is the best person that Bush could possibly nominate.  This is probably Lehy's and Kohl's thinking as well.
by Geotpf on Thu Sep 22, 2005 at 07:41:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I agree with Russ (none / 0)

You probably agreed with him when he voted to send Ashcroft's nomination out of committee on pricipal, too.

Russ is "my" senator.  You keep speaking up for Russ, soon we won't be able to tell you from the GoOPers who rationalize each and every twist of this administration's.

Yeah, Russ is a lone wolf al righty, and he's almost always wrong when he goes with "fairness".

Hey, Russ?  Thanks for Ashcroft you fool.

by sixteenwords on Tue Sep 27, 2005 at 01:27:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I agree with Russ (none / 0)

Yeah, and thanks for voting against the Patriot Act and the War in Iraq. Thanks for supporting gay rights, women's rights, and civil rights. Thanks for voting for universal health care and fair trade. Thanks for helping the poor and the needy. Thanks for going to bat on campaign-finance reform and balancing the budget.

Thanks for nothing, Feingold, you Roberts-confirming sack of unabashed progressivism.

by craverguy on Tue Sep 27, 2005 at 03:14:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I agree with Russ (none / 0)

I would not have guessed Feingold either but a while a back I named a few that I thought might and you did not agree with me.

"Dodd Conn"
I doubt it. Dodd got a perfect "100" rating from ADA last year.

"the one from New Mexico"

Bingaman happens to be one of the caucus' more liberal members.

"Byrd WV"

Three words: Hell fucking no.

"Conrad ND
Dorgan ND"

Highly unlikely. ADA has them pegged as party-line voters.

"Baucus Mon

Way more liberal than you think they are, and occupying safe seats.

"Nelson FL"

He's running for re-election next year. The last thing he needs in the world is to piss off his donor base.

"Landrieu LA"

Hardly in the mood to do Bush any favors.

Now I was wrong on some and some have announced yet but you thought the party would come out in mass against Roberts and it did not, I think this was not a fight the party needed to fight I am glad they passed on it.

by THE MODERATE on Tue Sep 27, 2005 at 04:52:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

vote against? (3.00 / 3)

i think there's a good chance the senators listed in the poll will vote no simply because that's what the base wants.

i dig feingold for not playing that game.

by gdtroiano on Thu Sep 22, 2005 at 03:30:07 PM EST

Bayh (3.00 / 2)

I'm going to step out of the box here and predict a no vote from Bayh.

The 08 contenders seem to be voting based on who they need to shore up support with.

Biden has never been popular with the progressive wing, so he needs the support if he intends to have a chance in the primaries.

Conversely, Feingold has credibility with the base and can use this vote to burnish his centrist/moderate credentials.

Kerry knows that his (hard) road to another nomination would go through us and he can't afford to disappoint us again.

Bayh is a smart guy and knows that if he's going to have any traction in the primary at all, he's going to have to cozy up to the roots. He's been moving in that direction.

So, for whatever reasons, we've actually been able to rely more on people we don't see as allies - Biden - than we have on solid progressives - Feingold.

The real question here is: what will Hillary do? It's a tough call for her, I imagine.

by MrExcitement on Thu Sep 22, 2005 at 03:31:21 PM EST

Re: Bayh (3.00 / 1)

All they had to do to shore up Centrists... is say I am voting no because Roberts failed to inform us adequately, The WH failed to release records and he doesn't have enough experience to show us that he will faithfully uphold the constitution and not be a right wing activist on the court.  If his judicial record was longer and the WH had released more documents and he had been more forthcoming, I would have voted yes.  Pleases the base without alienating anyone.  This is essentially what Reid did.  

Given that Polls show that the ONLY people who care about these nominations are the bases...

by yitbos96bb on Thu Sep 22, 2005 at 03:56:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bayh (none / 0)

I agree with you completely.

I think Hillary will vote to confirm, because she seems consistently bent on burnishing her moderate/DLC credentials in order to combat the public perception that she is a liberal's liberal.  (Which is not at all our perception, of course.)

by paul minot on Thu Sep 22, 2005 at 05:06:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What does Bob Brigham have to say? (none / 0)

Yesterday he was calling out Sen. Baucus from Montana, and now Feingold, the dandy of the blogosphere, votes to confirm Roberts. I wonder how the morning coffee went down for him this morning??
by falcon4e on Thu Sep 22, 2005 at 03:45:40 PM EST

How it could've gone (3.00 / 1)

All along I've believed that the dems should have given Roberts a practically unanimous vote out of committee as a matter of courtesy to the Republicans. Sure, the White House played dirty. They didn't release documentation that is surely damning. Of course Roberts dodged the bullet on any issue of signifigance in the hearings, regardless of whether he actually believed it would come before the court. Still, the dems had a priceless moment to frame themselves before the public. If they had appeared in committee and danced Biden's "Kabuki" dance with big bright smiles, praised Roberts to the end of the rainbow everytime they were in front of a camera, and showed how generally cordial they can be, it would have done wonders for the upcoming fight.

The dems needed to use this opportunity to paint a contrast. Roughly half of the country view the dems through some type of "obstructionist" lens. You and I know that's not how things really are, but we need to make a case for that other half of the country. Had the dems played nice beyond belief they could have set themselves up for an extremely appealing position, regardless of who Bush appoints for O'Conner's seat. For Roberts the public would have had the perception of the democratic party willing to work to no ends to get this man on the bench at any cost. Then, for Bush's next nomination we could have declared outright war. We would have been in a position to fillibuster until 2006 (which of course is completely infeasible, but you get the point). And if the Republicans would have invoked the Nuclear Option they would have been viewed as sore losers by a large portion of their base.

We'll see how things go with the course we've charted.

by BlueCollarBaby on Thu Sep 22, 2005 at 03:50:30 PM EST

Re: How it could've gone (3.00 / 1)

Funny, because polls show MORE than 50% think that the Dems need to provide more opposition.

Half the country does not view us as obstructionists.  Just because Rush and Hannity say it, doesn't make it true.  The ones who do view us that way, AREN"T VOTING FOR US.  

People want to see opposition.  In truth though, it doesn't matter, BECAUSE MOST PEOPLE DON"T CARE ABOUT THE SCOTUS BATTLE.  Only the Bases do.  

by yitbos96bb on Thu Sep 22, 2005 at 03:59:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How it could've gone (none / 0)

We need to provide more opposition. But we need to provide our opposition in pragmatic, productive places. Since Roberts was named, almost everyone in the establishment knew that Roberts chips away at what the dems and progressives celebrate...but he's not the nuke aimed at outrightly destroying civil rights and sweeping progressive meausres immediately. However, chances are good that the next nominee is that nuke.

We need to be smarter about our opposition. Of course, smart, pragmatic opposition requires a unified democratic party. A party that doesn't worry about pandering to the base. It takes a party that's more willing to get things done than to score points in front of the DLC, the netroots, the centrists, or even the liberals. It takes a party that's building to something bigger. So far we're too busy fighting for control of the democratic party to accomplish anything like that. Of course, we haven't had a true leader in our party step up yet.

by BlueCollarBaby on Thu Sep 22, 2005 at 04:34:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How it could've gone (none / 0)

Pragmatism is not always the best approach.  At times we are too pragmatic.  We allow the Republicans to take a stand and look like they have strong convictions while we work to keep everything running smooth.  Yes, it is need at times.  But not always.  I fail to see why a pragmatic approach is needed in Roberts case.  It should have been a stance of high minded morality over his and the whitehouses failure to answer simple questions given the lack of a judicial record.  I am not saying Filibuster, but at least mount opposition.  Sometimes that garners a bigger long term win. This is the Chief Justice.  We need to be very picky on this position.  I feel our government did not do enough to prove that Roberts will not be a judicial activist.  I don't give the benefit of the doubt to anything this important.
by yitbos96bb on Thu Sep 22, 2005 at 04:51:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

He should'nt have voted agenst him! (none / 0)

This will come back to bite him later.

Running the Davis, Nelson Klein team in Florida.
by Liberal on Thu Sep 22, 2005 at 03:56:56 PM EST

Re: He should'nt have voted agenst him! (none / 0)

whom shouldn't have voted against whom?
by gdtroiano on Thu Sep 22, 2005 at 04:01:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He should'nt have voted agenst him! (none / 0)

Sorry very tired today the agenst should'nt be in there. i ment to say he should'nt vote for him. Feingold. voting for Roberts.
Running the Davis, Nelson Klein team in Florida.
by Liberal on Thu Sep 22, 2005 at 05:02:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Money Quote (none / 0)

When my party retakes the White House, there may very well be a Democratic John Roberts nominated to the Court, a man or woman with outstanding qualifications, highly respected by virtually everyone in the legal community, and perhaps with a paper trail of political experience or service on the progressive side of the ideological spectrum.

If Feingold submitted such a nominee to the Senate, I'm sure that the Republicans would be as willing to vote for them as you were to vote for Roberts.  Right?

by Drew on Thu Sep 22, 2005 at 04:09:28 PM EST

ALERT !!! Note on Feingold... in case of 2008 (none / 0)

For those of us that are more conservative-moderate within the Democratic family..pls keep a tab on Feingold's vote for Roberts and note that if he runs for President and accuss his primary opponents for not opposing Bush's agenda enough..just make sure y'all don't forget to remind him and his supporters that he was just as complicit....with regards to Ashcroft and now Roberts, especially if the latter turns out to side with Scalia and Thomas on the big cases....
by dantata on Thu Sep 22, 2005 at 05:29:45 PM EST

Re: ALERT !!! Note on Feingold... in case of 2008 (3.00 / 1)

He probably wont even be. Souder, another "Stealth Judge" took 3 years to show his true side - ruling 75% of the time with Scalia and 97% with O'Conner and Kennedy. You're just getting all freaked out I think.

I think Robert's philosophy, realistically, will be equivilant to Kennedy's or Warren Burger, who could be best considered as "moderately conservative".

Feingonld had little reason to vote against him other than him not telling us much. With that same logic, we might as well should have filibuster and defeated Souder.

by KainIIIC on Thu Sep 22, 2005 at 05:45:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ALERT !!! Note on Feingold... in case of 2008 (none / 0)

even with his votes on ashcroft and now roberts, feingold has stood up to this administration more than enough times to give him considerable credibility if and when he ever questions another presidential candidate's lack of opposition to the bush administration--democrat, independent, whomever.
by gdtroiano on Thu Sep 22, 2005 at 07:19:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Why are you so surprised? (3.00 / 1)

You knew going in how Feingold feels about presidential appointments. You knew that he usually only votes against them when (like Gonzalez) there is evidence that they are unfit. You knew all of that. So why does this surprise you?

And why does it even matter? Roberts isn't a criminal, he's not an extremist, and he's not a blithering idiot. Can you give me one good reason why Feingold, who voted for Rice and Ashcroft and Whitman and Snow and all of Bush's other appointees, shouldn't vote for Roberts?

And how does this one vote erase his entire history? His votes against NAFTA, against the war, and against the PATRIOT Act? His support for labor, women's rights, gay rights, campaign finance reform, and welfare? His budget-cutting and his defense of the Bill of Rights? Does one meaningless vote make it all go away?

After all that Russ Feingold has done for this country, you would just toss him because he voted to confirm a man when there is no real evidence that he should not be and when, in fact, he would be confirmed anyway? After everything he's done for us, you'd disown him over a vote that doesn't matter?

If so, then shame on you.

by craverguy on Thu Sep 22, 2005 at 06:27:16 PM EST

Re: Why are you so surprised? (none / 0)

I think you are right.

Feingold knows that in 2008 he wants to appear "above the fray" and his M.O. on appointments is that the President can pick anyone he wants, as long as they are fit for the job. He's probably just trying to retain his ideological purity in the face of others being more calculating.

But also...if Roberts is nominated, it removes him from Bush's potential nominees for O'Connor. In some ways, this was the big tactical error by Bush. He failed to use the Rehnquist seat to push a more colorful conservative who might have gotten stuck as a replacement for SDO. Roberts, to his credit probably could have been safely confirmed replacing any justice on the Court.

The only rational explanation...if there is one...is that Bush is preparing to nominate someone so out there...like Priscilla Owen or Janice Rodgers Brown that he wants to pick a fight and win. Harry Reid is already dropping hints that all bets are off for the next nominee...but moreover...Bush and his advisors probably figure that for both sides...a more polarizing nominee is better for fundraising closer to the midterm elections and when there is not a competing media story. And don't forget, the GOP controls the Senate...so...it's really about who Bush can convince them to vote for, not the Democrats.

Although Senator Landrieu might be a bit more willing to hit the "filibuster" button after Katrina...

by risenmessiah on Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 12:00:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Can't believe what I'm reading here (3.00 / 1)

I can't believe what I'm reading here.

Reason?  Pragmatism?  Call it what it is:  a load of crap.

To quote this site's staunchest opponent of Roberts:

You would think that after the war vote democrats would have learned something, but apparently not. Perhaps I am expecting too much, but it seems obvious to me that it is impossible to be complicit with governing Republicans when something passes into law, and then try to gain political traction by "opposing" that something later on. If Democrats are unhappy with, but vote for, a stealth nominee with a miniscule record of actual rulings, who refused to answer any questions during his hearings, and who claims that everything he wrote and did in the past reflected the views of his clients and bosses rather than his own views, then how are they ever going to oppose these characteristics in any nominee in the future?

The irony is too much to bear:  we have just seen one of the only credible anti-war progressives capitulate to the Republican agenda.  

I had hoped that his courageous vote on the Iraq War would influence other Democrats to take strong stands against the administration; unfortunately, it seems that the influence went in the other direction.

Compromise is fine when both parties are willing to give ground.

But it's time for the Democrats to stand for something.  I mean, Jesus -- Bush is at 40% approval, and this is the kind of unified opposition we mount?!  

by TatteredCoat on Thu Sep 22, 2005 at 08:41:39 PM EST

Poll isn't accurate (none / 0)

The question is who.... I am hoping that Biden, Kerry .... maybe Clinton will all have sense enough to just say no!
by wmkrayer on Thu Sep 22, 2005 at 10:37:08 PM EST

Re: Poll isn't accurate (none / 0)

again, i would rather have a senator that votes as if in a political consequences vacuum, than have a senator who votes a certain way because that's what they'll need to do to survive in the primaries.
by gdtroiano on Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 09:13:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Kerry (none / 0)

Kerry has already said he is voting against Roberts.  Why is he included in thie poll??!!
by titanrw on Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 09:27:40 PM EST


You are not logged in.

In order to post a comment, you must be logged in. If you have a member account, please log in to comment.

If not, you can make an account right here. It's quick and free.