Roberts Hearings, Day Two, First Afternoon Thread

The John Roberts hearings are beginning again. When you embed John Roberts in a link, use the same link I did above.

You can follow the hearings at Pacifica or at C-SPAN. The New York Times has a transcript of the morning hearings.

  • Feinstein is really pushing a lot of important buttons. She gets Roberts to say that he does not look to the Bible or any religious source in making legal decisions. He does, however, refuse to say whether he believe in a absolute separation of church and state, because he doesn't know what an absolute separation of church and state is.

  • Big moment: Feinstein brings up the Commerce Clause, as it realtes to environmental regulation. Roberts is asked if he believes the Commerce Clause allows for enviromental legislation and regulation. Roberts answers that he has not decided yet. WTF? Hasn't decided yet? To me, that sounds like he was saying no, because simple "yes" would have washed away fears that he was a Constituion in exile type.

  • Feinstein moves to expand the privacy discussion back into reproductive rights--again Roberts evades. Feinstein then pushes to Stare Decisis about Roe, asking if Roberts agreed that Roe had indeed proved workable. This is exactly the ground that Confirm Them indicated earlier today Roberts would use to overturn Roe:
    Specifically, he indicated that Roberts said that precedent could be overturned on the basis of changing circumstances.
    Roberts replied:
    "that determination...is entitled to respect"...like other principles of stare decisis. "That is a precedent on precedent. In terms of a separate determination on my part, my review of what other nominees have done is that's where they draw the line, and that's where I draw the line."

    Also: "Settled expectations...people expect that the law is going to be what the court has told them it is going to be. That's an important consideration."

    Feinstein: Is the reliance or settled expectation sufficient?

    Roberts: "It certainly was the analysis of the joint opinion of the court entitled to respect. That is certainly be where I would begin. I would begin with the precedent that the court has laid out in this area."

    This could be conservative wiggle room, I'm not sure. This could be support for Roe, I'm not sure. This could be a confirmation conversion, I'm not sure. I'm not sure is becoming a theme about Roberts, since we still know so little about him.

  • Roberts keeps emphasizing that he support equality under the law--neither defends nor apologizes for the dismissive, written statements, except to once indicate that it was because of the "candid" environment of the office he worked in. At least that is what I think he said--waiting for a transcript.

  • Feinstein is delivering a catalogue of statement Roberts made concerning women, les focused on legal issues and mostly on what appears to be a generally dismissive view of women overall. This is, in fact, the question she asks. This is an interesting and, I think, welcome, as it de-wonkifies the hearing somewhat.

  • Feinstein up now. This is important, as she is the only woman on the panel.

  • Wow--a Republican complaining about "Free Speech Zones" alongside their typical complaints about religious persecution. I like that. No wonder DeWine is hated by the Republican base.

  • Roberts endorsing Griswald--good. However, Fred Thompson seems to clearly indicate that Roberts has not endorsed a general right to privacy, and instead only a specifically enumerated one:
    On CNN, Fred Thompson discussed Judge Roberts' testimony regarding the right to privacy just opened the door wide. He said that even though Roberts recognized a right to privacy, he was not committing to what the privacy right entails. Well, Mr. Thompson, if that is the case, then we must explore in great detail then what exactly are the specific rights Judge Roberts recognizes within the privacy/liberty interest.
    Agreed.

  • Kohl asks about Katrina, which must be a way of eventually hitting at a Constitution in Exile question via the Commerce Clause and the ability of the federal government to engage in broad social investment. From National Journal:
    Kohl asked Roberts what he would do to "right the wrongs" as revealed by Katrina.

    Roberts: "...equal justice under law. The most important thing the judicial branch can do is to uphold the rule of law. That's the key to making [rights] meaningful."

    As with Leahy's earlier innuendos on this subject, Dems are gonna have to be more direct to get an answer, or at least a hint, out of Roberts on this one.

  • Kohl brings up the umpire analogy again. We don't just need more women on this panel, we also need less men.

  • Right-wing code watch (emphasis mine):
    GRASSLEY: Well, is there any room in constitutional interpretation for the judge's own values or beliefs?

    ROBERTS: No, I don't think there is. Sometimes it's hard to give meaning to a constitutional term in a particular case. But you don't look to your own values and beliefs. You look outside yourself to other sources.

    From what I understand, this is right-wing theocon code for deferring to God and hte Bible. Correct me if I am wrong and it is more mainstream.

    "But you don't look to your own values and beliefs. You look outside yourself to other sources."
  • You need to look no further than this passage from subscription only Hotline to learn why we are having such a difficult time with Roberts:
    A grand total of 21 people marched in protest of the Roberts nomination, chanting, among other things: "Two-four-six-eight, separation of church and state!" Police who were stationed "for crowd control, had no crowd to control." Sen Edward Kennedy (D-MA) shook the hand of Roberts's wife, Jane Roberts and said, "Congratulations." Both Judiciary Chair Arlen Specter (R-PA) and ranking Dem Patrick Leahy (D-VT) acknowledged they were acting out a bit of political theater, with Leahy noting during a picture with Roberts: "That is as staged a photo as you'll ever see" (Milbank, Washington Post, 9/12)."
    We are facing the twin problems of Roberts being one of the Beltway Kool Kidz for a long time now, and general apathy on the part of the left. The media and the chattering classes are not going to challenge him that seriously because, well, Roberts is one of them. The left does not appear very organized, and certainly does not appear energized. Obviously, there are other immediate concerns right now, but Roberts will be a concern for twenty-five or more years if he is confirmed.

    Even if he is confirmed, and later on ends up being the main cause for overturning important individual and civil rights, or for dismantling the ability of Congress to regulate the economy or create broad social investment, it is necessary that as many Democrats as possible vote against him. We can't end up being complicit with conservative debacles anymore, like we were when, combined, nearly half of all Senate and House Democrats voted for Bush's war. That vote has hamstrung us for three years now, and uniting the party to form an actual alternative to the wrath conservatives have wrought on America is one of the most important things in these hearings.

  • Kyl has just put the word "progress," as it relates to civil rights, into scare quotes three times in the last two minutes.

  • When Roberts made his statements about privacy earlier today, he notably left out the ninth amendment. As Lorraine Berry notes over at culture kitchen, it was actually the ninth amendment that was cited in the original right to privacy case, Griswold v. Connecticut. It was also the ninth amendment that " Robert Bork famously likened it to an inkblot, saying judges were not permitted to make up what was under the inkblot." Roberts needs to be pushed harder for a discussion of the ninth amendment, especially as to how it relates to privacy, and even to Griswold.



Display:


Kos is down (none / 0)

This may be the place for the open thread
by RevDeb on Tue Sep 13, 2005 at 02:34:30 PM EST

Interesting that (none / 0)

almost every reference to the "Ginsburg Rule" in the google link you posted earlier was a right wing site. Think that means it qualifies as a "right wing frame?"

The 10,000 Things
by Andrew C White on Tue Sep 13, 2005 at 02:36:14 PM EST

Re: Interesting that (none / 0)

I believe it does. Biden was trying to cut it down.
by Chris Bowers on Tue Sep 13, 2005 at 03:12:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Interesting that (none / 0)

Good for him. As much as I rag on the Senator from MBNA... he does do some things right and is not first in line to be dumped (though the bankruptcy bill moved him into the top 10).
The 10,000 Things
by Andrew C White on Tue Sep 13, 2005 at 04:26:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Question I'd like to hear (none / 0)

Tom DeLay recently said of justice Kennedy, "he said in session that he does his own research on the Internet? That is just incredibly outrageous."

Do you argree that doing electronic legal research is outrageous.

by space on Tue Sep 13, 2005 at 02:39:52 PM EST

Speaking of women... (none / 0)

Where is NOW? And NARAL? Only 21 in a protest? We put a million on the mall last year. Where are the women's groups?
The 10,000 Things
by Andrew C White on Tue Sep 13, 2005 at 02:52:45 PM EST

Re: Speaking of women... (none / 0)

Democratic hacks made sure that NARAL was hamstringed in this fight... I have seen more ammo aimed at them then at Roberts... this is all a farce

Feinstein puts this on the front page of her Senatorial website ...then comes out "swinging" on Roberts record on women's reproductive rights... pull the other finger.

Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.
by Parker on Tue Sep 13, 2005 at 04:30:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What is the offical list of Senators (none / 0)

Asking Questions sorry if i missed it in the story.
Running the Davis, Nelson Klein team in Florida.
by Liberal on Tue Sep 13, 2005 at 04:11:56 PM EST

Ninth Amendment (1.00 / 0)

The majority opinion in Griswold only tangentally relied on the Ninth Amendment to find a right of privacy, but rather talked about "penumbras" and "emanations" by the various amendments in the Bill of Rights.  The 9th amendment was barely mentioned.

Justice Goldberg's concurrence focused more on the 9th amendment.  But there has actually been very little 9th amendment jurisprudence.

by JPhurst on Tue Sep 13, 2005 at 04:35:02 PM EST

Substantive Due Process and Lockner (none / 0)

Roberts got awfully enthusiastic in answering that the Constitution provides for substantive due process.  This is the basis by which Griswold held that Americans have a fundamental right to privacy even though it is not enumerated in the Constitution.  But there is another angle to substantive due process, and that is economic substantive due process.  For the legal experts out there, we all know that Lochner is no longer good law, but perhaps Roberts is quick to praise the concept of substantive due process because he believes that Lockner was inappropriately overruled?

For the uninitiated, Lochner held that Americans have the fundmental right to economic substantive due process.  In other words, we have the right to enter into whatever private contracts we see fit, and the government has no authority to infringe on that right.  That's important because it would prohibit things like minimum wage laws (because we have the absolute right to work for whatever wages we agree to accept).

It may be a stretch, but I'd love to see someone ask Roberts about Lochner and the concept of economic substantive due process.  At the very least, it puts that bugaboo issue to rest that he would support reinstating Lochner.

by GreenlaborMike on Tue Sep 13, 2005 at 04:41:29 PM EST

"Look outside yourself" (none / 0)


I think it should come as no surprise that this statement means very little.  It is certainly not necessarily a codeword for "I believe that the abstract provisions of the Bill of Rights incorporate Christian natural law precepts" or something like that.  

All this says for certain is that Roberts isn't a strict, dogmatic textualist or literalist -- so he wouldn't take a stance like that of Justice Black.  (e.g., the First Amendment says "Congress shall make no law ...", so "no law" means "absolutely no exceptions to freedom of speech or the press").  That's not too interesting, really, but we can't expect that he's going to say anything terribly interesting.  

Those "other sources" are probably historical sources used to support, when necessarily (in his view), originalist arguments.  That doesn't mean much, since most Supreme Court justices, from Brennan to Clarence Thomas, have made use of originalist arguments.  Ideologically, what's most important is what 'historical' sources he considers valid.

As a side note, I wonder if anyone is going to ask Roberts about the supposed controversy over the use of international law or comparative legal studies as 'persuasive authority'.  This has been a serious hot-button issue on the right for years.  

 

by McGreasy on Tue Sep 13, 2005 at 05:02:06 PM EST

economic sub. due process (none / 0)


Roberts would no doubt quickly laugh and reassure the senators that the thought of defending Lochner is completely absurd.  

The more important question -- and Specter has promised to investigate this -- is where his views stand on Congress's power to regulate "interstate commerce."  You can have many of the same results as the old doctrine of economic substantive due process by limiting Congress's power to regulate social and economic matters, in the name of 'Federalism' or whatever.

by McGreasy on Tue Sep 13, 2005 at 05:12:49 PM EST

Ha Ha (none / 0)

Is Lindsey Graham the stupidest Senator on the face of the Earth?

Roberts is going to sail through confirmation.  Now he wants to make Roberts vouch for the Reagan Revolution?  Hello?   The only basis for opposing Roberts is that he would be a partisan hack.  Why in the world would Graham force Roberts to appear to be a conservative water bearer?

I'm liking Roberts more and more each moment I see Roberts squirm while Graham spouts wingnut talking points.

by space on Tue Sep 13, 2005 at 05:59:35 PM EST

Re: Ha Ha (none / 0)

He's not even the dumbest Senator from South Carolina. Jim DeMint (R-SC) is truly a moron. Graham is also an improvement over his predecessor, Strom Thurmond.

Keep in mind that we have pretty low standards here in SC. Graham is the first Senator in over a century to not make race, national origin, or sexual preference a campaign issue.

by wayward on Tue Sep 13, 2005 at 10:38:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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