Ohio 02 expectations

I was reading through Charlie Cook's analysis from DC, then the response by Tim Tagaris, and Cook's response in the MyDD comments. Basically, Cook compiled the 2000 and 2004 Presidential numbers (I hope they figured in the redistricting changes in the CD), that come in at a Republican advantage of 63-37, and then said Hackett has to move the numbers by greater than 9% just to break a wind toward the Democrats-- that if Schmidt comes in at 8% under the expected Republican margin, nothing much has happened.

I do agree with Tim that a prognosis at that level is lowering the bar for Schmidt. First, note that both the primary for the Republican and Democratic nominations were competitive, maybe not to the same degree, but regardless:

Republican-- 45,390   77%
Democratic-- 13,774   23%
Second, in the last two races that the incumbent Republican Rep. Porter ran (post-redistricting) in the Ohio 2nd, in 2004, Porter took 72% of the vote, and in 2002, he took 74% of the vote.

But this is apples and oranges, because Cook is coming from the Presidental difference, while Tagaris is pointing out the CD partisan difference. So I went at it from a different angle.

I drilled down to the more-competitive state legislative races for the Ohio House, at the county level, to see what the breakdown was in terms of Republican vs Democratic. I looked at the 2004 results for Districts 34,35,66,86,88, and 89, for those parts of the county that comprise the 2nd CD (the only Democratic district is 89). And overall, the results are just about the same as the above at the Presidential level.

In 2004's state legislative races in the Ohio 2nd, Republicans stacked up a 64-36 cumulative victory over the Democrats. The same as Bush's victory over Kerry in the CD. That's significant, because it shows there is nothing of a ticket-splitting mentality in the CD.

Just for Hackett to get within a 25% margin (to that 63-37 losing margin) would mean he's moved the race from the ~50% blowout that's happened in the Ohio 2nd CD recently, to the highwater mark for Democrats in the CD. The Ohio 2nd is such a Republican stronghold that a win by 25% is as tough as it's gets.

As a benchmark then, that 63-37 spread is the starting point for an analysis of the gains that Hackett has made above and beyond where Democrats have recently tread in the Ohio 2nd, so here's the prognosis based on Hackett's vote percentage:

                                                         WIN FACTOR

Hackett: 23-28% is the norm in this CD for a Democrat.      Loss
Hackett: 29-37% reaches the historical plateau for a Dem.   None
Hackett: 38-44% is a Democratic shift of 1-8 points.        Symbolic 
Hackett: 45-49% is a Democratic shift of 9-13 points.       Significant
Hackett: 50% or more is a Democratic shift of 13+ points.   Tidal

A prediction would be a guess, but if you want to take the opportunity to stake out your claim, do so in the comments.



Display:


my guess is "significant" (none / 0)

though i'm holding out hope for "tidal."
my web log.
by matty fred on Tue Aug 02, 2005 at 06:20:19 PM EST

same here (none / 0)


Visit us at TexasKAOS, where we're taking Texas back!
by annatopia on Tue Aug 02, 2005 at 07:02:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Don't Hold Your Breath (none / 0)

I hope I'm wrong, very, very wrong, but I don't expect a Hackett victory tonight.  First of all, this is already a very Republican district.  Second of all, if Republicans were going to jump ship in Ohio, they would have done so in the highly strategic presidential election, in which everyone with at least a grade school education in Ohio knew that Ohio was the pivotal state.

So, despite massive job losses in Ohio and the devastation of Ohio's economy, despite thousands of American boys dying in Iraq and hundreds of billions of dollars going down the drain there, despite the ample availability of evidence that Bush lied to the American people about his reasons for leading us into war; despite all this, John Kerry ran about the same percentage of the vote as Al Gore did in 2000.

While I for one believe that Kerry was the true victor in Ohio (and the exit polls were right that showed Kerry defeating Bush 51 to 49%), I don't think Kerry made many gains in the Ohio 2nd district.

So, I hope I'm wrong.  I hope this young guy wins.  But remember, we are still dealing with a Republican base who thinks that Bush is God's Second Son, the 4th member of the Holy Trinity, and we are still dealing with Diebold and ballot manipulations and crooked Republican control of the voting operations down there.

Bottom line, don't hold your breath tonight.

by MichiganDemocrat on Tue Aug 02, 2005 at 06:25:03 PM EST

this line just doesn't die, does it? (3.00 / 1)

the second district runs on punchcards, not diebold, so can we put this shibboloeth to rest?
by wu ming on Tue Aug 02, 2005 at 06:40:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

it's punch cards (3.00 / 1)

in that district.  so if all else fails, we can count hanging chads or something.

;)

Visit us at TexasKAOS, where we're taking Texas back!
by annatopia on Tue Aug 02, 2005 at 07:01:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I just have a feeling about this one. 53-47 (D) (none / 0)

I've read all of the reasons why Hackett's an underdog.  Hyper-red district and all.

I live in OK... talk about Red Country.  Out here out Democrats are Red and our Republicans are invisible (because they're Infrared... get it?).

But I also get the feeling that a lot of Red voters are just itchin' for an excuse to dump Bush.  A lot of Voter's Regret.

So when I say that I think that it's going for Hackett, I guess I'm projecting what I see in the (many) Red voters I know into OHio.  Sure there are plenty that would stick with Bush if they caught him raping their 4-year-old.  But there are quite a few who have seen the light since November.

They want an excuse, and I think that hackett gives them an excuse.  An ex-Marine who gets a concealed carry permit 'just because if I want to carry it, I'd like that to be legal' is very appealing.

So... here's hoping t hat my gut its correct.  I'm stopping by the liquor store to get me some more Crown Royal, in case i need to celebrate in Red Country tonight!

McCain sucks!
by teknofyl on Tue Aug 02, 2005 at 06:34:39 PM EST

The shit hadn't hit the fan yet. (none / 0)

MichiganDemocrat, Ciongate was not in the Ohio news Nov. 2004. Since then A huge scandal has come out and the whole Ohio GOP is covered in shit by it. Also The last Democrat to win in OH-2, won in a special election.
by Houston on Tue Aug 02, 2005 at 06:41:24 PM EST

Re: The shit hadn't hit the fan yet. (none / 0)

Like I said, I hope I'm wrong.  I forgot to mention that maybe the Coingate scandals might alter the dynamics a bit.  But if a 200 billion dollar boondoggle in Iraq and 1700 dead Americans does not make the Repugs abandon the GOP, I doubt a esoteric coin scandal will.

Like I said, I hope I'm wrong.

by MichiganDemocrat on Tue Aug 02, 2005 at 06:50:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Borderline significant (none / 0)

I like your Loss-Tidal bracketting. Let me go ahead wager that it will be 42.6% for Hackett, i.e. borderline Significant.                                                  

Neo

CLICK to Draft Al Gore!
by NeoLiberal on Tue Aug 02, 2005 at 06:48:32 PM EST

Re: Borderline significant (none / 0)

of course, while "secretly" hoping that he would WIN!! :)

Neo

CLICK to Draft Al Gore!
by NeoLiberal on Tue Aug 02, 2005 at 06:49:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

My prediction (none / 0)

Schmidt 55, Hackett 45

or....much more sadly...

Schmidt 58, Hackett 42

One of those two is my prediction.

I'm not being negative, just cautious. I've been disappointed too many times in the last three years to assume otherwise.

by raginillinoian on Tue Aug 02, 2005 at 06:57:12 PM EST

When do polls close? (none / 0)

I believe in a half hour or so, right?
by Geotpf on Tue Aug 02, 2005 at 07:01:12 PM EST

7:30pm eastern time (none / 0)


Visit us at TexasKAOS, where we're taking Texas back!
by annatopia on Tue Aug 02, 2005 at 07:02:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 7:30pm eastern time (none / 0)

Right.  Next question-is there a place for live returns?  Ohio's election websites are...lousy.
by Geotpf on Tue Aug 02, 2005 at 07:11:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Lousy is right. (none / 0)

I finally came to this page, where it appears they'll be posting a PDF every few minutes with the latest results.

Does anybody know whether the OH-02 is contained entirely within Hamilton County? It's the only one the state's site pointed to for election results.

Yeah, I'm cynical.
by catastrophile on Tue Aug 02, 2005 at 07:22:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Oops. (none / 0)

Ignore me. Listen to Anna. Girls are smarter.
Yeah, I'm cynical.
by catastrophile on Tue Aug 02, 2005 at 07:26:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Bleah (none / 0)

You have to check each county seperately?  Ick.
by Geotpf on Tue Aug 02, 2005 at 07:38:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

is fraud a possibility? (none / 0)

What safeguards exist to prevent fraud?
Rrrinnggg... Time to change the government.
by Carl Nyberg on Tue Aug 02, 2005 at 07:04:19 PM EST

Re: is fraud a possibility? (none / 0)

To your first question-is fraud a possibility, you can bet your ass it is; to the second question, what safeguards are in place to prevent fraud, answer-none.  This is Ohio remember, home of Secretary of State Kevin Blackwell.

And, I don't care if its not Diebold.  Remember Florida 2000?  They had punchcards there too.  There was the strange phenomenom of Democratic ballots being rejected at something like 10 times the rate of Republicans-you know the undervotes-the hanging chads.

Oh well, we will find out soon.

by MichiganDemocrat on Tue Aug 02, 2005 at 07:13:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

FLA2K & OH02 won't happen this time (none / 0)

"won't get fooled again"
Visit us at TexasKAOS, where we're taking Texas back!
by annatopia on Tue Aug 02, 2005 at 07:25:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Cook on a blog? (none / 0)

Just picturing that guy typing onto MyDD shows how far this blog movement has come in terms of impacting politics.  3 years ago, even the blogfather here was small potatoes.  I remember reading it back then and enjoying.  Now I have friends who are blog consultants for statewide races, presidential campaigns, and have seen the netroots create a contender out of thin air.

I guess Charlie Cook, mr. old school, blogging, is just the next step in the road.  But if I ever see David Broder blogging, I know I will be living in some paralell universe.

Good luck Paul Hackett.  Part of me says he will get in the 40s, part of me thinks he will eek out a win...45-50.1% is my prediction.

by DaveB on Tue Aug 02, 2005 at 07:10:41 PM EST

Re: Cook on a blog? (none / 0)

You know I come here to blog because Dailykos is so huge now they have hundreds of comments on scores of diaries; I mean, who has the time and patience to read all that?

I love myDD.  It is informative, and it has a small, family atmosphere.

by MichiganDemocrat on Tue Aug 02, 2005 at 07:14:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

i agree (none / 0)

i love the more intimate format.  takes less time to separate the wheat from the chaff, ya know?
Visit us at TexasKAOS, where we're taking Texas back!
by annatopia on Tue Aug 02, 2005 at 07:21:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

live election results (none / 0)

forgive me if this has already been posted, but i've got a list of the counties that have live online election results posted here.

i'm loaded up and ready to go.  let's see how this plays out.

and for the record, i will be optimistic and expect something in the "significant" margins.  hoping for tidal, but, well, that's the best i can do right now or i'll be too disappointed if we lose.

Visit us at TexasKAOS, where we're taking Texas back!
by annatopia on Tue Aug 02, 2005 at 07:20:21 PM EST

oh crap (none / 0)

helps if i post the link.
Visit us at TexasKAOS, where we're taking Texas back!
by annatopia on Tue Aug 02, 2005 at 07:20:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: oh crap (none / 0)

Thanks for posting. (I knew where to find you, anyway...)
by cscs on Tue Aug 02, 2005 at 07:24:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: oh crap (none / 0)

Thank you for all this info.  Thats why I come in here, so many smart people with so much info.

Lets cross our fingers.  Polls close in 5 minutes.

I'm an estranged Catholic, but I'll say a couple Hail Mary's for Paul.

by MichiganDemocrat on Tue Aug 02, 2005 at 07:26:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Watch out for Warren County (none / 0)

Remember it was Warren County, during the 2004 presidential vote count, that declared a Homeland Security alert and ordered a "lockdown" of the elections office.  Reporters and the media were barred.  (Conspiracy theoristes like myself speculate they did this to cook the books to bolster the Bush margins).
by MichiganDemocrat on Tue Aug 02, 2005 at 07:29:47 PM EST


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