2008 Roundup - The Democrats

There's a lot of news rolling around today about the possible contenders for each party's 2008 nomination.  Let's get right to it.

Hillary Clinton. Say what you will about Hillary, she's put herself at the top of everyone's list merely by keeping her name out there. She's lately engaged in all sorts of high profile activities that seem pretty calculated to get the voting public to reconsider their preconceived notions of her. Rather than running it all down, I'll trust that you've been following the news.

John Kerry. Kerry writes a ton of e-mail. But I probably don't need to tell you that since we're all on the same lists. As the 2004 nominee, Kerry automatically earns some respect in the race, and some instant support. While he does hold the claim to winning the second highest popular vote total in history, he was a less-than-ideal candidate running what was pretty widely recognized as a bad campaign. I don't see him winning the nomination again in 2008.

John Edwards. Like Kerry, Edwards earns an automatic spot on the list. That said, I don't think his chances are very good. He's now a former one-term Senator who had the second spot on a losing ticket. But he's staying active and staying public. Edwards was never supposed to get as far as he did in 2004, so he can't be immediately discounted. Then again,

Wesley Clark. Coming out on top of recent straw polls here and at dKos, Clark has emerged as the netroots candidate. Somewhat oddly, he recently joined Fox News as a military/foreign affairs analyst. This shouldn't have any impact on him in the primaries, but if he manages to endear himself to a few Fox viewers, that'll pay dividends in the general election.

Mark Warner. As Chris wrote earlier, voters in Virginia would rather see Warner, their current chief executive in the White House than George Allen, their former Governor and current Senator, by a 55-to-47% margin. However, Warner may want to challenge Allen for his Senate seat next year. The same poll finds Warner with 47-to-42% support to take over Allen's position.

Warner was another one of the Democrats to speak at the recent blogosphere-boiling DLC conference in Ohio, so he's definitely running for something. My guess is that he's still trying to figure it out himself.

Bill Richardson. Here's a name that came up time and time again in the lead up to 2004. Lately? Not so much. But still, many consider Richardson a deadly serious contender. He's a heavyweight in the areas of international relations and energy policy. He's a Western Democrat. He's Hispanic. And he's a Governor. It's an extremely attractive profile for a Presidential candidate.

Tom Vilsack. Last year, it seemed to me that Vilsack was secretly running for Vice President. Now it seems that he's learned that sitting back and waiting for a phone call isn't enough. He's now the Chairman of the (in some circles dreaded) Democratic Leadership Council.  And according to Political Wire, he's set to launch a website for his Heartland PAC, which seeks to "close the ideas gap" and generally promote activism among Democratic moderates.

Now, I take exception to the idea that there is an "ideas gap" between the parties. And I know I'm not alone. We're told day in and day out that Democrats don't have any new ideas, that we don't stand for anything but "no." Vilsack is essentially making his pitch by saying that this premise is accurate and that he's out to fix it. That's hardly a winning strategy for winning over primary voters, grassroots Democrats who, day in and day out, live and breathe the very ideas that Vilsack says are lacking in our party. Then again, if my theory is correct, he doesn't have to win over primary voters. He just has to win over the person who does win over the primary voters.

Evan Bayh. A few short weeks ago, Bayh was the DLC candidate. Now, in the aftermath of the meeting in Ohio, Bayh has clearly been pushed back in that pack by Hillary. I never took Bayh all that seriously as one needs far more than good looks and the backing of From and Reed to win the nomination.

Joe Biden. Biden's been running since about November 3, 2004. If he could have started running any earlier without looking unseemly, he would have. His new PAC website, Unite Our States, is quite impressive and shows the general tone and feel a Biden Presidential campaign would take on.

There are two big obstacles in Biden's way. During the primaries, he'll have to somehow explain his support for the bankruptcy bill -- something many Democrats have pledged not to forget. And then in the general election, he'll repeatedly run into the plagiarism scandal from his 1988 Presidential run. Neither will be an easy task.

Russ Feingold. Though Feingold telegraphed early his interest in running, many saw the announcement of his divorce as a de facto end to his chances at winning the nomination. I'd tend to agree if he indicated that he was no longer in the running. The combined stress of a divorce and a brutal campaign seem too daunting for anyone to overcome. But he's still out there, still campaigning. Don't count Russ out yet.

Barack Obama. People keep talking about him, but he's not running. "I am not running for president in 2008." It doesn't get any clearer than that.

Brian Schweitzer. Again, lots of talk from the grassroots, but he's not running either. When Schweitzer was asked about all of the people trying to make it happen, he called them "kooky." I'm sure he meant that in the nicest way possible.

Anyone I'm forgetting?



Display:


It's just way too early ... (none / 0)

to talk about 2008.

I know. People want to do it.

But the political landscape will change shape 4-5 times before then.

People on this list could emerge or vanish.

And unknown could pop up.

No one knows what the general situation will be and whom that will favor.

I think it's pointless and energy-draining to worry about 2008.

I care right now about '06. Actually, I care about next week in Ohio, and then 2006.

I think the party would be far healthier if everyone else did that, too.

But, I don't suppose anyone will listen to me. People just have to look way ahead.

by Thresholder on Tue Jul 26, 2005 at 10:04:32 PM EST

Re: It's just way too early ... (none / 0)

I agree with you, I'm all over 2006 senate (and I say Warner should take on Allen and drown his warchest or beat him) as well as the OH-02 election

Then there is the san Diego mayor race today, I hope it ends today and there's no run off.  (DFA endorsed Donna Frye)

by Trowaman on Tue Jul 26, 2005 at 10:38:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Dude, I'm DYING for a Hackett win... (none / 0)

I just need to see SOME progress on the Congressional front!  And I confess... I think that having an Iraq verteran in Congress would give him, and the Dems, some added clout in that area.
by teknofyl on Tue Jul 26, 2005 at 10:39:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's just way too early ... (none / 0)

I don't know.  It's not just looking "way" ahead.  It's looking for a leader.  To me, Clark is that leader.  So, I look to him to lead me through 2006.  Some people will look to Clinton and others to other people.  I'm just saying that I don't think all the 2008 talk is really about 2008.  It's really about who we want to follow through next year.
by ICantBelieve on Tue Jul 26, 2005 at 10:44:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's just way too early ... (none / 0)

Agreed. we got an interesting mix of candidates, but who know who it wil be this far out. Could be someone not even on the list(not that the list pointless or anything, i found it informative). But I'm more concerned with Hackett, Tim Kaine, and 2006.
by jj32 on Tue Jul 26, 2005 at 10:50:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's just way too early ... (none / 0)

Politicians start getting ready for the next election as soon as the last one is over. There's no reason why we shouldn't vett them and expose and discuss their records and pros and cons as much as possible rather than waiting to have one of them such as Hillary slyly insinuate herself as our only "electable" choice over the next couple of years.
by Guy on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 01:26:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Schweitzer (none / 0)

He may not be running for President, but I still think he has the #1 spot on the short list for VP.

Definitely well suited for that job at this time IMO.

by Trowaman on Tue Jul 26, 2005 at 10:35:31 PM EST

Re: Schweitzer (none / 0)

Why would Schweitzer give up a powerful position as Governor to be V.P.?  It is not possible to elect a weaker President than George Bush. It is not likely that any V.P. will ever again have the power Dick Cheney does.
by Gary Boatwright on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 02:21:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Schweitzer (none / 0)

Who wants a first-term Governor as a runningmate? Show me the precedent for that.

And let's say Hillary is the nominee. Will Schweitzer on the ticket be enough to pull in Montana'a whoppong 3 electoral votes? Not a chance.

by zt155 on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 02:53:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Schweitzer (none / 0)

I think Schweitzer was calling speculation about running for President when he had been Governor for a whopping half-year "kooky." I don't recall him making a categorical "I won't run" statement like Obama.  

Politically, there is no benefit to Schweitzer to fueling speculation at this time, but a lot can happen in 2 years....

"We are building a political movement - not one that wields the power of lobbyists and corporate interests, but the power of millions... who seek change." -Dean
by Jim in Chicago on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 03:14:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

That should just about do it. (none / 0)

Forgot one possible big handicap on Bayh, just after he became Gov. of corn country he had a Willie Horton incident.  Not good, though he took action to cancel that fucked prisoner release program, he'd still get swift boated to all hell for it.
And i'm not making fun of Indiana by calling it corn country.  I grew up there.  It IS corn country.

BTW, how do you all figure our 08 primaries will be spread out?  I know Iowa and NH have a lock on their spots, but what else has anyone heard after the DNC had that big meeting this month about it?

Just curious,

your pal, Sam Loomis.

by Sam Loomis on Tue Jul 26, 2005 at 10:43:55 PM EST

NJ and Cali (none / 0)

I know NJ has moved up its presidential primary to late February. This will make it (I think) the first vote rich northeastern state, which is somewhat significant. Also, the garden state shares media markets with Philadelphia and New York City, so it could be a very important date on the calender.

From what I understand California is going to go back to being the last state to hold a primary. Given the large amount of candidates and the general ambiguity about 08, its possible it comes down to the wire in and California decides the nominee. That might be exciting, I think.

by dre2k5 on Tue Jul 26, 2005 at 11:38:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The Invisible Primary (none / 0)

I can only hope the nomination battle is drawn out so that a) we still oxygen from the Republicans and b) we get to find out what everyone is like. I am sure that Hillary Inc. will spend more money in New Hampshire than I care to think about. But with Alabama eager to get in an early primary, Dean might be clever enough to construct a "Chinese firewall" for the candidates. In other words, forcing them to run through a diverse allotment of states even if it appears the nomination will be settled quickly.
by risenmessiah on Tue Jul 26, 2005 at 11:53:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Invisible Primary (none / 0)

I think there is a good chance of that happening for a few reasons. 1, the primaries are going to be close together. 2, if the field remains large a front runner may not emerge despite early victories.  3, the combination of the two previous factors will enable candidates to set up shop in states further down the line, thus allowing them the image of being in for the duration fo the fight.  Edwards stayed in well past the time everyone knew he was done, but in 08 candidates able to achieve podiums but no victories early on may suceed in communicating that their campaign is not over simply because they didnt win Iowa or NH.
by dre2k5 on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 12:00:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Invisible Primary (none / 0)

Haven't seen the calendar yet, but the largest problem is television. Once you have a "Super Tuesday" or a state near a big TV market...the frontrunner immediately gets a huge boost. Of course, the other way...that could really really really shake things up is simply make the primaries proprotional allotments instead of winner-take-all. That would force the frontrunner to not spend as much at first and ensure fiscal discipline among those are winning the "invisible primary".

But that would take some big huevos...and Dean is just crazy enough to do it.

by risenmessiah on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 05:03:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Invisible Primary (none / 0)

"Of course, the other way...that could really really really shake things up is simply make the primaries proprotional allotments instead of winner-take-all. That would force the frontrunner to not spend as much at first and ensure fiscal discipline among those are winning the "invisible primary"."

I thought that's how it was last time... Yep, I looked back at CNN's page on the primaries, and they used proportional allotments. For example, even though Kerry won New Hampshire, and received 13 delegates, Dean received 9 delegates for a relatively strong second place.

Or do I misunderstand what you meant?

Walberg Watch - Following Radical Conservative Rep. Tim Walberg in MI-07
by Fitzy on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 09:27:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Read the Fine Print (none / 0)

On CNN's page for New Hampshire they note:

New Hampshire has 22 pledged and five unpledged delegates. Of the 22 pledged delegates, 14 are district-level delegates (based on results of a given district's binding primary), five are at-large delegates and three are "party leader and elected official" (PLEO) delegates. Of the five unpledged delegates, four are decided on March 1, 2004, and one is selected at the state Democratic convention on April 24, 2004.

Kerry and Dean got all the delegates despite getting just 65% of the vote. Each state party can do it as they see fit, and as I recall many are still winner-take-all.

by risenmessiah on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 05:00:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Read the Fine Print (none / 0)

The Reps have winner-take-all, the Dems do not.   However, the Dem proportional representation has a threshhold of 15 percent of the vote to qualify.   Seems reasonable to me.

Given fundraising, media attention, and the electoral calendar, it is EXTREMELY unlikely that more than two Dem candidates will be viable after about the third week of primaries.  

It's hard to parlay a fourth-place or worse finish in Iowa into anything.   A third-place finish in New Hampshire needs something else to go with it to make the candidate attractive at the next level.  Period.

One of the surviving Dem candidates will be HRC, you can take that to the bank.  The other is most likely someone else who also finished in the top three in Iowa.

by InigoMontoya on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 05:39:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Read the Fine Print (none / 0)

That's impossible.

Unless CNN is wrong, the State of New Hampshire allotted nine delegates based on precients and then cut up the five at large ones based on PR. Stacking on the PLEO ones and you can see how if you really did make each primary PR it would have a dampening effect on frontloading. However, this is unique to each state but New Hampshire's rules are obviously the most important in determining how much of a bounce there is afterwards.

by risenmessiah on Thu Jul 28, 2005 at 12:07:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Invisible Primary (none / 0)

risenmessiah, if there's one thing that Dean has, it's "huevos grandes". The man fears nothing in politics.
by Hannula on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 12:23:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Invisible Primary (none / 0)

I agree that Dean basically lost any fear once he ran for President. Only problem is, that Bush guy also has some pretty big nuts at least in politics.
by risenmessiah on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 05:05:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: That should just about do it. (none / 0)

Yeah, there's the furlough incident, although, Bayh received kudos from the press for being the one to shut down that program.

To balance it out, there's the fact that Bayh is responsible for the two most progressive pieces of legislation in the state's history - 21st century scholars and Collective Bargaining rights.

by blueflorida on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 02:39:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Father of Sam Loomis (none / 0)

Sam's old man is a hardcore fist-wielding progressive.  He told me that Bayh would make a great president, and was good for IN.

I trust Sam's old man.
Not sure I'd vote in a primary for him, but in the gen?
You bet.

by Sam Loomis on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 01:42:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: That should just about do it. (none / 0)

This is not a campaign ending issue. Want proof? He ran for reelection in Indiana, one of the more conservative states in the country, and won three times more. No to mention that he handled the issue just right at the time, and prison furloughs weren't uncommon at the time, and are to some extent making a comeback now, in various different forms. It's one of the very few things they can throw at bayh, and something he can counter easily.
by aliasjl79 on Tue Sep 20, 2005 at 06:14:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You forgot.... (none / 0)

You forgot a big but very, very darkhorse candidate.  One that has been in the news much as of late...

Any guesses? (Don't peek)  

No?  The answer is below.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

Andy Stern.

by badpolitiks on Tue Jul 26, 2005 at 10:49:10 PM EST

Re: You forgot.... (none / 0)

hmmmm, intriguing.  I could possibly support him.  It would definitely force the democrats to support workers and make issues like health care and enron, etc. center stage.
by exLogCabin on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 01:00:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Has Kerry been Leading? (3.00 / 0)

I like Kerry personally. I think he would be a great President. Yet he doesn't seem to have a grasp of politcal trench warfare. And its not just about "firing up the base", its about talking to the issues that mater most to average Americans: jobs, immigration, the economy, education. If we learned one thing from 2004 its that the people aren't smart enough to vote right. The dems need to be teaching them things instead of promising them things. 2007 is a long way away. Kerry needs to work the leather, and that means more than having a clerk cook up some emails.
by Paul Goodman on Tue Jul 26, 2005 at 11:09:02 PM EST

Re: Has Kerry been Leading? (none / 0)

My frustration with Kerry is that if he had done in 2000-2004 what he has done since losing in 2004, he would be president.   He is actually talking about issues that matter and most importantly acting like a leader in the Senate on issues ranging from the Roberts nomination, to children's health care and the Rove/CIA scandal.  Perhaps he enjoyed his Presidential campaign,  perhaps he realized that he has an opportunity and responsibility to be a real leader in the Senate  I don't know. It's unfortunate though that everything he does now is colored by the feeling of "been there done that" as Democrats look for a new candidate for 2008.
by AlanR on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 11:06:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Has Kerry been Leading? (none / 0)

Not really a fair comparison. Now that the election is over, Kerry is free to move back to more liberal stances because he no longer has to worry about moderate stances to please to middle America.
http://operationyellowelephant.blogspot.com/
by Vote Hillary 2008 on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 03:35:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Missing two key elements of any good leader in his (none / 0)

People will follow CHARISMATIC and ENTHUSIASTIC leaders.

Period.

Kerry's speaking style and intellect pose betray him.

by Sam Loomis on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 01:44:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

in him (none / 0)


by Sam Loomis on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 01:44:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

A vote for Russ (3.00 / 1)

Feingold is the only one in that lot who even remotely gets me interested in the 2008 campaign.

The rest are just D.(L)C. Establishment hacks.

by Guy on Tue Jul 26, 2005 at 11:30:41 PM EST

Re: A vote for Russ (3.00 / 1)

My sentiments exactly. It's about time we all voted for a real progressive, and Feingold is that candidate.  
I don't disagree with those who say our focus should be on 06, but I do think its good to build support for a candidate early.

Tennesseans for Russ Feingold
by schwompa on Tue Jul 26, 2005 at 11:57:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A vote for Russ (none / 0)

Sen. Feingold is currently my favorite senator (in a tie with Sen Reid) because of his steadfast adherence to and pursuit of principles, but for a variety of reasons, I feel that he'd be a great Veep candidate in 2008 but not President.

The stakes are too high in 2008, as it will be then or never for liberals, IMO.

Neo

CLICK to Draft Al Gore!
by NeoLiberal on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 12:20:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A vote for Russ (none / 0)

The stakes in 2008 are too high to NOT nominate Feingold with his impeccably honest and unassailable record. If Dems choose another tired old party establishment face with a weathervane record the Repos will do what they best to best advantage -- not to mention that even if one of the DLCers is nominated (who are we kidding - it's Hillary) and wins, we'll be stuck with just another corporate shill president, as usual.

The "D" in DLC stands for "Debased."
The "L" stands for "Losing."
The "C" for "Corporatists"

Honesty, Integrity, and Populism are what will win the presidency for Democrats and they fit Feingold like a tailored suit.

by Guy on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 01:12:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A vote for Russ (none / 0)

Losing? The DLC's claim to fame is the first 2-term dem president since FDR.

Care to name a liberal president that accomplished the same?

I like how you contradict history a second time with your last sentence. "Honesty, integrity, and populism" were Howard Dean, and he didn't even win a primary. How do you expect such a candidate to win the presidency if he can't win the party nomination? Mainstream appeal is the ticket to winning the presidency.

http://operationyellowelephant.blogspot.com/
by Vote Hillary 2008 on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 03:39:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A vote for Russ (none / 0)

I agree.  That's the thing that completely baffles me.  I am probably closer to a John Kerry politically than I am to a Hillary Clinton.  But I also understand that the Kerry type candidate doesn't win Presidential elections.  Love him or hate, Bill won twice, and rather convincingly.  Why are we in the minority on this?
by Eric11 on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 06:02:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Not VP (none / 0)

If there's to be a "Centrist" Dem President, I want Russ in the  Senate, where he can call out bad policy, not stuck in a yes man post like the Vice Presidency. The Attorney General spot might be worth it, but I can't see Clinton or Biden appointing an AG who believes in the Bill of Rights.


Democratic Candidate, US Senate, Wisconsin 2012
by benmasel on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 01:22:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not VP (none / 0)

Centrist?  You got to be kidding.  The only real centrist is Dean, and the fake centrist Democrats screw him every chance they get.   Everyone needs to let the DLC know where to put it.   We can't take our country back until we take our country back.   Drop in to Huffington, Sirota, and the other blogs and get a drift of what the Democratic Party is mostly like. The excerpt below will give you a clue.  Aren't you sick of liars and crooks yet - regardless of Party?  

07.26.2005 Doug Heller

Senate Dems: Weaker by the Moment
Given the opportunity to take on President Bush's (and big business's) nominee to head the Securities & Exchange Commission, at Tuesday's confirmation hearing, Senate Dems decided to take a pass. Senators Schumer and Feinstein fawned over this "colleague on the Hill," whose bottom-of-the-barrel record on investor and consumer issues and top-of-the-heap fundraising from businesses he would regulate at the SEC make him a nominee who could and should be blocked. How can you live to fight another day, if you don't fight in the first place?

by oakland on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 09:16:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not VP (none / 0)

Feingold's resume is impeccable however, having votes against the Patriot Act, NAFTA, CAFTA, GATT, War in Iraq, etc.

At the same time, he is easily sold to Conservatives and Moderates with his messages of Honesty and Integrity - and the fact that he always seems to be right about unpopular legislation. "Mavericks" tend to be sold pretty well to the public.

And at the same time, he would completely unite the base. No one would consider ditching the party for the greens or Nader if Feingold was running. I bet Feingold is what keeps a lot of people still in the Democratic party.

by KainIIIC on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 01:08:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not VP (none / 0)

I bet Feingold is what keeps a lot of people still in the Democratic party.

Yes, Sen. Feingold is worthy of that praise, I think. But, I'd add at least one more name to that list. i.e. Gov. Howard Dean!

Neo

CLICK to Draft Al Gore!
by NeoLiberal on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 02:31:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Dean is what sucked me in! (none / 0)

And I wake up every day hoping to see more of Howard  Dean.

Every DAY!!

by teknofyl on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 06:48:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not VP (none / 0)

Sorry, I like Clinton's record and Janet Reno. Funny, how you apparently share the republicans point of view on that AG pick.
http://operationyellowelephant.blogspot.com/
by Vote Hillary 2008 on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 03:41:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Gore (3.00 / 1)

You forgot Al Gore.  If he was serious about it, he and Hilary would be the main contenders.  He would generate a lot of sympathy from everyone after being beaten by the Supreme Court.  He could look at what he did wrong in 2000 (letting the Republicans paint an inaccurate picture of him) and not do it again.

By the way, Kerry HAS NO CHANCE.

by edonyoung on Tue Jul 26, 2005 at 11:39:48 PM EST

Re: Gore (none / 0)

In a recent statewide 2008 primary poll for GA/NJ/FL, Gore finished 2nd to Hillary,
http://www.mydd.com/story/2005/7/23/122315/794
and Gore has not yet said that he is not running in 2008.

And in a recent (add-on or "delta") poll I conducted here at myDD, Gore performed rather strongly:
http://www.mydd.com/story/2005/7/17/10949/8327

In fact, a Gore Vs Clinton matchup would be very healthy for the party as it will generate a good debate between Hillary's recent pragmatic turn and Gore's relatively recent more ideals-based progressive (ala Dean) alignment, and could help define a solid platform for the eventual nominee.

So, in my opinion Gore is a viable possibility and prospect for 2008, and so I'd say that you "forgot" Gore :)

regards
Neo

CLICK to Draft Al Gore!
by NeoLiberal on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 12:12:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gore (none / 0)

Why are people so accepting of the fact that Al Gore has re-invented himself? He comes off as such a phony!
by zt155 on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 02:55:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gore (none / 0)

First off, the changes I am referring to do not amount to "re-inventing" oneself. I am talking about subtle differences between his 2000 speeches and his 2004 speeches. The latter ones were much better in terms of his conviction, clarity, and purpose. I suspect that the Dean'04 movement had something to do with that. I also suspect that, in turn, Dean was inspired by Clinton/Gore's approach to governance back in the nineties.

See, politicians are also human beings, and their minds are also subject to change as yours and mine are.

If those changes do not amount to inexplicable or unexplained 180o (or some large degree) turnabouts, how can you deny them the right you and I enjoy?

In Gore's case, these changes are subtle shifts and consolidations of the views he has held for most of his public life, and IMO definitely do not amount to "Re-Invention".

Yes, during the 2000 campaign, his camera presence kept shifting, and here is how I explain it: I feel that Gore was very self-conscious (I know about this very well, as I used to be very self-conscious in public myself) in front of a camera for whatever reason, and this is how he earned his "stiff" image. During the campaign, his advisors seem to "worked on him" to make him less stiff, and from the results, it looks like they did a horrible job. I don't consider working towards improving upon one's drawbacks as "re-invention" either.

So, there is my explanation of what I meant in my comment, and what I feel about this "Al Gore re-invented himself" crapola.

If you still feel he did "re-invent" himself, I welcome you to present your case with solid facts and reasoning.

thanks,
Neo

CLICK to Draft Al Gore!
by NeoLiberal on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 09:19:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gore (none / 0)

I agree. Which is why I didn't vote for him in 2000, not to mention he snubbed Bill who is my favorite president.

The fickle mainstream public is to fickle to grant a second chance in the name of "re-invention". That only implies inconsistency in character.

http://operationyellowelephant.blogspot.com/
by Vote Hillary 2008 on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 03:44:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gore (none / 0)

I agree. Which is why I didn't vote for him in 2000, not to mention he snubbed Bill who is my favorite president.

Don't tell me that you "did a Bush" in 2000. Did ya?

If so, you're telling me that you did so because Gore chose to distance himself from the "Blue dress saga" (don't get me wrong. I love Bubba).

Neo

CLICK to Draft Al Gore!
by NeoLiberal on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 04:36:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gore (3.00 / 1)

Gore and Dean 08!  Anyone but Hillary and another beltway boy.   Gore is pissed at the Dems and should be.  Again, they ran from a fight when they should have taken the Chimp and the Supremes on....  The DLC is nothing but a bunch of pussies for sale.
by oakland on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 09:23:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gore (none / 0)

"Gore/Dean'08", I second that. Wouldn't mind Gore/(Clark or Feingold or HRC or Obama etc) either.  Actually, there are many good dem choices, but in my view, at the present time, only HRC and Gore have the "stature" and political experience formidable enough to withstand either a cReepublican ticket (e.g. Allen or Frist upfront) or a moderate GOP ticket (such as Guiliani or McCain, although the latter is looking more and more like Kerry these days, i.e. putting ambition ahead of conviction).

Neo

CLICK to Draft Al Gore!
by NeoLiberal on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 09:38:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gore (3.00 / 2)

The worst, the most destructive thing, that has happened to the US in the the last thirty years was not 9/11.

Bin Laden cannot destroy the Republic as it was bequeathed to us.

The worst, the most destructive thing, that has happened to the US in the last thirty years was 12.12.2000.

The Republican Party can destroy the Republic as it was bequeathed to us, and has a pretty decent start on the process already.

To save the Republic, 12.12.2000 must be addressed -- not just shuffled off to the attic and ignored like a national crazy aunt.

Justice must be done, and seen to be done.

And justice for theft requires restituition of the thing stolen, not some other thing, to the one to whom it rightly belongs, not to some other person.

Gore '08, on a free, fair, and open elections platform.

by Davis X Machina on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 12:53:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gore (none / 0)

Amen!

Here is the link to the SC ruling on Bush V. Gore

Neo

CLICK to Draft Al Gore!
by NeoLiberal on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 02:35:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Dean/Gore 08 (none / 0)

but hey... I could tolorate Dean/Anyone 08
by teknofyl on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 01:27:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gore (none / 0)

Gore is wrapped up in his new career as a media mogul (he's launching a new cable/satellite network.) He describes himself these days as a "recovering politician."
by Guy on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 01:16:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gore (3.00 / 1)

Thank god.  He would have no chance.  I have too much respect for him to see him go down in a ball of flames in 2008.  
by Eric11 on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 01:43:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gore (none / 0)

After his TV channel launches and reaches "steady state", he doesn't necessarily have to dedicate his full attention to its day-to-day operations (he can delegate those duties).

I hope he is reading this, but how could he care more about a TV channel or "media mogul-hood", when the fundamental precepts of democracy are in jeopardy at the hands of the currently power-wielding creepublicans? I am sure that he cares about America and American democracy more than that, and I feel that should he perceive a strong enough support towards his candidacy, he will explore the possibility of running.

Neo

CLICK to Draft Al Gore!
by NeoLiberal on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 09:28:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gore (none / 0)

From 2000 and 2004 cycles, we have learned much about the creepublican tactics of winning elections, and the emergence of netroots over the last 2 years helps tremendously in countering these sick tactics, provided a competent and potent campaign team is put together. Don't worry Gore getting mish-mashed next time around.

Neo

CLICK to Draft Al Gore!
by NeoLiberal on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 09:31:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Typos (none / 0)

Sorry for the typos in my comments here (I am a bit rushed right now)

thanks
Neo

CLICK to Draft Al Gore!
by NeoLiberal on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 09:40:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama (none / 0)

I know he's not running, but the fact that he would become the instant front runner, if he threw his hat into the ring, must eat him alive.
John McCain wants to stay in Iraq for a century.
by jkfp2004 on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 12:44:15 AM EST

Re: Obama (none / 0)

Obama's voting record so far has alienated a lot of the people who poured their hearts, souls, and pocketbooks into his campaign.
by Guy on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 01:31:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama (none / 0)

Obama is Kerry junior.  He will have an undisinguished senate career, marked with few legislative bills of his own making that really support Democratic ideals.  He will do this so he doesn't cause much of a fuss when he decides to run for President.  I have said all along, including when he ran for senator that he should have run for governor in 2002-3.  He would more effective in that position and it would have set himself up nicely for a run at the White House.  

Remember, this is a guy here in Chicago that did not exactly set the world on fire in the state legislature.  

by Eric11 on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 01:49:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama (none / 0)

Obama is arguably the most charasmatic person in the Senate right now. Whatever you want to say about his record is fine. But comparing him to Frankenstein is a joke.

Think about it, who wanted Kerry to run for President the moment he got elected to the Senate? Or EVER for that matter! Did Kerry go on David Letterman and Oprah as a freshman Senator and get asked about running for President the way Obama did?

That is a horrible comparison. I'm sorry.

by zt155 on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 02:42:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama (none / 0)

Well...it was pretty clear thirty years ago that John Kerry wanted to run for President one day; there are a couple of amazingly prescient Doonesbury cartoons from that era that lampoon his self-promotion. The difference between Obama and Kerry is the difference between JFK 2004 and JFK 1960: charisma and vision. If you can communicate the vision, you don't need a strong Senate record, as Kennedy demonstrated.
by morinao on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 04:53:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Excuse me???!!! (none / 0)

You call sponsoring 25 successful bills his last year in the State legislature not setting the world on fire?! You must set the bar awfully high!

Obama would seem to be the hands down choice for VP in 2008.  Then he can be President in 2016. ;-)

"We are building a political movement - not one that wields the power of lobbyists and corporate interests, but the power of millions... who seek change." -Dean
by Jim in Chicago on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 03:11:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

How about (none / 0)

Obama/Oprah 2012?
by Sam Loomis on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 01:45:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How about (none / 0)

"Obama/Oprah": Sam is one groovy camper, eh? :)

Neo

CLICK to Draft Al Gore!
by NeoLiberal on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 02:52:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Richardson and Clark look good so far (none / 0)

Until they take a formal and public stand on Bush's Iraq war, everything else is a sideshow. The Iraq war will be the number one issue people will be voting on in 2008 unless something dramatic and positive happens.

Biden is the only candidate I know who has taken a public stand in favor of continuing support for the war. HIllary is a close second for the warmonger vote, but she has been understandably vague about what her position going forward in Iraq actually is.

I think Clark and Richardson are the only candidates who can take an aggressive and smart approach to ending the Iraq war as soon as possible. The rest of the field looks trapped in the "stay the course" mode that will fracture the Democratic party worse than 1968.

I'm not even sure Feingold has staked out a clear position on Iraq. He gives the impression of being the only candidate interested in running an immediate withdrawal campaign.

If a warmonger lite candidate is the nominee, the 2008 Democratic Convention will probably attract larger demonstrations than 1968. Hopefully the police reaction will be smarter and not be as violent. Has the city been selected for the 2008 convention yet?

by Gary Boatwright on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 02:34:18 AM EST

Re: Richardson and Clark look good so far (none / 0)

Yes, Feingold has staked out a clear position on Iraq. Being the only Senator in the running to have voted against the War in Iraq, he is now working with Democrats + Republicans to set a "Time Table" for withdrawal of troops.

He's consistent, always has been.

by KainIIIC on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 01:02:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Richardson and Clark look good so far (3.00 / 0)

Richardson: Too goofy.  Never win.

The Gen'ral:  Has a clear shot at it.  He might beat the shit out of most candidates, lose to HRC, get picked as VP.  That's Sam's prediction and he's sticking to it.

by Sam Loomis on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 01:46:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Richardson and Clark look good so far (none / 0)

Not only that, but a hispanic with a non-latino name? Completely works against name recognition and the ethnic connection with mainstream voters.

I don't even think he can win his own state after seeing 2004...dems outnumber republicans 2:1 there and still NM goes red and in 2000 barely went blue? Forget it.

http://operationyellowelephant.blogspot.com/
by Vote Hillary 2008 on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 03:48:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I think you underestimate Bayh (none / 0)

There will always be people out there that consider Hillary too liberal no matter what she does with the DLC. People will be looking for the "anti-Hillary" and Bayh is as far from her as anyone as far as baggage and red-state appeal.

Yes, Warner is popular in Virginia. But he's a lightweight politically. Especially with this group of candidates. But no Democrat is as popular in a solidly red state as Bayh is in Indiana. I think it's comical to think he might lose votes to Hillary in a primary.

by zt155 on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 02:38:06 AM EST

Re: I think you underestimate Bayh (none / 0)

Biden and Bayh are both going to have to explain their vote on bankruptcy over and over and over. I hope whatever benefit they received from their vote was worth it, because it probably killed their chance of winning the Democratic primary.
by Gary Boatwright on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 03:43:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Being from the cornfields of IN/IL (none / 0)

I really want to support Bayh.
I think he'd be a good president.

But man, that speaking style sure doesn't set my pants on fire like Edwards, or sometimes HRC.

by Sam Loomis on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 01:47:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

People Should Focus (none / 0)

On winning local races in 2006.

Infrastructure, infrastructure, infrastructure.

If you build it, they will vote.

by Patricia Taylor on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 02:38:39 AM EST

Clark and Faux (none / 0)

"he recently joined Fox News as a military/foreign affairs analyst. This shouldn't have any impact on him in the primaries."

We'll see.  It'll make a great negative ad.

by Paleo on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 09:10:23 AM EST

Groan - (none / 0)

they are all freakin DLC.  I wouldn't vote for a DLC candidate if I had to vote for Frist.  Feingold is the only one not for sale.
by oakland on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 09:11:12 AM EST

they are all for sale- (none / 0)

that's the game we pay to play.
But once you get past that, you can see more clearly I think.
by Sam Loomis on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 01:48:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Get a Life (none / 0)

All you people keep spouting is the same ol, same ol.  Aren't you sick of insiders yet?  No Obama, Bayh, Hillary, Vilsack or the rest.   They are already bought and paid for.   How about Richard Clark or definately Spitzer.  He proved he isn't owned by corporate America - which is what is so very, very, very, wrong with this country.  Corporation have bought and own our government, and they get whatever they want - and they don't care who they screw to get it.  Corporations have no morals, no values, no nothing - except make more money anyway you can.   The scale is upended.  They are out of control, and we need someone who will take no prisoners.  
by oakland on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 09:28:58 AM EST

Re: Get a Life (none / 0)

That's why there's a guy named Feingold.
by KainIIIC on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 01:00:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Get a Life (none / 0)

Blah, blah, blah. Do you ever say anything new? One post is all you need to get across your point...yeah we all get it, the DLC is evil and eats babies. Try arguing policy positions instead of wasting bandwidth.
http://operationyellowelephant.blogspot.com/
by Vote Hillary 2008 on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 03:51:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Anyone but Feingold (none / 0)

Just to piss people off, I'll come out and say it.  We have to nominate someone who can win at least one state in Jesusland, including Ohio, which is teetering on the border.

I'm not saying we need to go all DLC or use "electibility" as the primary mantra, but crossover appeal and a hard-to-label ideological stance will be necessary.  General Clark, your country is calling. He's our only chance for a stealth liberal.  

Obama could use more time to incubate in the Senate before we decide whether he's ready to go national.

The most interesting omission to me was Al Gore.  I swear, he could pull a Nixon by being a VP who came close and lost and then came back tanned, rested, and ready several years later.

by freedc on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 01:23:50 PM EST

stealth liberal (none / 0)

Might as well be a flaming liberal these days; that's what the Democratic nominee will get tagged as regardless.
by morinao on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 04:40:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Smear-proof undercoating (none / 0)

Some are more taggable than others.  I think Democratic primary voters are trying to be more sophisticated and anticipate a candidate's vulnerability to attacks by the right but they're still not there yet.  They thought that Kerry would be harder to smear and caricaturize (is that a word) or demonize than Dean, and maybe they were right, but he wasn't smear-proof enough.  

I still think Wes Clark would have been much harder to go negative on.  You could spread rumors on the left that he's a warmongering crypto-Republican, but that's (a) so clearly bullshit and (b) would only endear him to actual Republicans.  They could have tried to tie him to Waco, but that's digging deep. You'd have to be a real conspiracy theorist to buy that.  So you're left with a squeaky clean candidate, cleaner than Edwards even, who is a friggin' hero and makes Bush and Cheney look like the chickenhawks that they are.  And Clark is very liberal once you get him talking about social issues.

by freedc on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 07:34:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Smear-proof undercoating (none / 0)

I don't think Clark would have been any more smearproof than Kerry. The bullshit doesn't come any smellier than that Swift Boat nonsense, but that didn't keep Kerry from getting swamped with it.

Clark would have been torn down the same way Kerry was, by attacking his greatest strength, his military service. We saw a preview of that when General Shelton accused him of lack of character. They probably would have trotted out Defense Secretary Cohen to rag on perceived grandstanding during Kosovo. Whatever image he had as a war hero would have been replaced with a caricature of a perfumed political general who got fired for cause during a peacekeeping conflict that most Americans didn't care about at the time and has since been eclipsed in the public memory by 9/11 and Iraq.

It's possible Clark would have been able to unite Kerry's military record with Edwards' domestic vision, but I find it more likely that an inexperienced campaigner would have been forced to turn to the same set of establishment Democratic consultants and his candidacy would have sunk the same way Kerry's did.

by morinao on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 10:22:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Ugh (none / 0)

The shitty part about your comment is the much of it is true.  They would have painted him an ego-maniac, which might have stuck, and his political inexperience did drive him to pick some lame consultants and it might have gotten worse (Shrum) if he won the nomination.

But I still think Clark would have done better than Kerry.  Of course, Deaniacs think their guy might have taken back America.  We'll never know.

by freedc on Thu Jul 28, 2005 at 09:30:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Does Florida count? (none / 0)

Also, it should be interesting to see the results of the southern primaries.  I think Feingold can do better there than you would logically think.  If he wins the Alabama primary (which is going to be the third primary and probably will decide it, especially if Vilsack jumps in and 86's the Iowa caucus), then he will win the general election.
by Geotpf on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 07:52:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Biden makes me puke (none / 0)

Lest anyone forgete Biden co-sponsered along with Orrin Hatch the RAVE act (http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle/282/savethechildren.shtml)

I like Barbara Boxer.  I know she isn't centrist, I like that.  I wouldn't mind seeing her as president or VP - but I would hate to lose her as a Senator!

by cannabis flower on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 01:44:44 PM EST

Re: Biden makes me puke (none / 0)

Biden doesn't have a chance in hell. He's in it for a VP chance and won't get that either.

I like Boxer, she's got spunk.

http://operationyellowelephant.blogspot.com/
by Vote Hillary 2008 on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 03:53:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Biden makes me puke (none / 0)

 "Biden makes me puke"

Yeah,  I used to like him, too.  Then I started to notice how often he said "I" instead of "we" or "the party" or even "the nation" when I heard him being interviewed.  Watch him the next time he's on one of the Sunday shows (you won't have to wait long)!!  He's on virtually every week.

He's so self-obsessed.  That alone is annoying enough.  I won't even bother getting into his voting record, as we've all been there before and back.

I think Biden and Kerry are going to cannibalize  each other's votes during the primary, anyway.

by bellarose on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 06:45:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Biden makes me puke (none / 0)

Boxer would make a wonderful VP pick. Clark-Boxer, now there's a ticket.
by material boy on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 04:30:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Biden makes me puke (none / 0)

Boxer adds nothing to the ticket.   She doesn't cover an issue (as Clark would on defense/security with any number of #1 pairings), she doesn't give a geographical push, as either Richardson, Schweitzer, or Warner, for instance, would.

In short:  ain't happening.   And it doesn't matter who the #1 is.

by InigoMontoya on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 05:41:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Biden makes me puke (none / 0)

Interesting you'd say  Clark/ Boxer rather than Boxer/ Clark, given that she's the one with all the governmental experience.

Nevertheless, I think we're looking at a Clinton/ Clark ticket in 2008.   Or maybe Clinton/ Richardson.  Barring something catastrophic,  HRC has this one in the bag.

by bellarose on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 06:35:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Gore/Richardson (none / 0)

It;s fairly easy to draw correlations between Gore and Richard Nixon.

Both were Vice Presidents who lost in close elctions  where allegations of fraud and misconduct were abundant and probably true.

Eight years after losing to JFK, Richard Nixon recaputured the nomination and sought a second try.

Running on the theme that America has strayed to far to the left under Democratic Leadership throughout the Sixty's he handily defeated his opposistion.

Gore can do the same, especially given the radial right crash course Repubs are on.

A Gore/Richardson ticket with a strong "Southwestern Strategy" could reshape the field like no other way since Nixon's "Southern Strategy."

Richardson is one of our most established and qualified members from a region that must become our new focus in Presidental cycles.

by tlongpine on Thu Jul 28, 2005 at 01:25:41 PM EST

GDF (none / 0)

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Re: 2008 Roundup - The Democrats (none / 0)

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Re: 2008 Roundup - The Democrats (none / 0)

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