Roberts Thread

I have done some reading, and this guy is clearly and ultra-right conservative. Dkos has some info. Bondad has some info. Allaince for Justice here and here has info.

This guy is totally unacceptable, and probably was chosen in order to start a fight. I think MyDD commenter yitbos96bb said it best:

[I]t is one of the most brilliant Wag the Dog moves I have ever seen. Methinks Rove is all over this one.

I bet he was seriously thinking of going with Clement or someone less conservative until the Rove thing really hit the fan over the last week. So instead of nominating someone who can get through confirmation easily, he nominates someone guarenteed to start a nasty fight. This nasty fight consumes the media and divides the public, letting Rove slip from the headlines. In a few weeks we will see the investigation close with no casualties.

So what do we do? A bitter fight may cost us a lot of support for 2006 (or it may solidify our support) and the use of the nuclear option, given that McCain has said he will support most SCOTUS nominee (in an effort to appease the conservatives in the GOP) the gang of 14 may be broken up.

You know what? If Republicans are forced to use the nuclear option to confirm Roberts, then so be it. As far as I am concerned, that is the only way he should be confirmed. People will pay attention to this one. We just have to make the case ot them why he was unacceptable.



Display:


What should we be doing to defeat this (none / 0)

nomination?

Should we be contacting Arlen Specter through his constituency. He's a valuable part of  this.

by bruh21 on Tue Jul 19, 2005 at 10:05:05 PM EST

Re: What should we be doing to defeat this (3.00 / 1)

Roberts may be conservative, but so is Rehnquist and he is not that bad. This guy is obviously qualified ,and he isn't Gonzales. That is all that matters to me. I know the administration will get conservatives through. Face the music and save the ammo for a nomination that is really out there. Another Thomas and Scalia is what needs to  be avoided. The other judges I've read about in the running were much worse.

The is little chance that the Dems will try to stop this one based on what Leahy and Schumer said in press conference.

by Christopher Hitchens on Tue Jul 19, 2005 at 10:53:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What should we be doing to defeat this (none / 0)

No thanks. Nice try though.
by bruh21 on Tue Jul 19, 2005 at 10:55:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Good advice (3.00 / 1)

The fact is, this guy still has Souter potential.  Judges change a lot once they get on the SCOTUS.

In fact, when history looks back on Clinton a little smarter, he will be noted as a President who got exactly what he wanted from both his picks.

Consider that Reagan missed the mark with O'Connor and Kennedy.  Or did he?  Perhaps the ultraconservatives have painted Reagan with too wide a brush.

Bush 1 not only missed the mark, but fired his shot into the stands killing an 11-year old girl with Souter.

Nixon/Ford missed the mark pretty badly with Stevens, although at the time I don't think they attached much value to it.

So . . . the current court is stacked with bad picks.

No reason to believe Roberts will be any different.

Even then, supposing he is as promised, a Rehnquist is still about 100x better than a Scalia.

Rehnquist is a respectable and decent man who genuinely believes in limiting the scope of government.

Scalia is batshit crazy and drinks the 700 Club Kool-Aid.

by jcjcjc on Tue Jul 19, 2005 at 11:05:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Good advice (3.00 / 2)

As a centrist, most important to me is balance on the supreme court. I don't want ideology to be the basis of any decisions, from either side. Courts are supposed to strictly interpret the letter of the law, period. I'm not a fan of Scalia or Thomas, but when it came to the eminent domain decision I sided against the liberals who backed government seizures for commercial development.

Needless to say what I really dislike about this new appointee is his age -- he is going to be there for a good 25 years if not more, and he clearly shifts the balance to 5-4 in favor of cons.

But, every president gets to appoint one or two judges to the court it seems, so we'll survive this as we survived the all the times previously that the court's makeup has changed. Our best opportunity to reshape the court is by winning the presidency in 2008.

http://operationyellowelephant.blogspot.com/
by Vote Hillary 2008 on Tue Jul 19, 2005 at 11:59:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

GOP has a worse batting average (none / 0)

It's been a long damn time since the Dems swung and missed on a SCOTUS nominee.

You'd have to go back to FDR's effort to stack the court to find a real mis-step by them Dems in this arena.

If you think about it, it's only natural.

We have a better pool to deal from.

The GOP has a natural disdain for lawyers and the rule of law.  I've never met a regular guy GOPer who didn't shit all over law as a profession.

Also, the law is inherently a liberal thing.  No one wants a lawyer who argues for a strict interpretation of the law -- they want a lawyer who gets things done.  

The GOP's view of the law makes them much more vulnerable, because it's a hard business finding successful, proactive, capable supporters of laissez fiare policies coupled with strict intepretation.

You really gotta be one or the other.  Only a handful like Sandy O'Connor find the happy medium.

by jcjcjc on Wed Jul 20, 2005 at 12:16:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: GOP has a worse batting average (none / 0)


It's been a long damn time since the Dems swung and missed on a SCOTUS nominee.

You'd have to go back to FDR's effort to stack the court to find a real mis-step by them Dems in this arena.

Actually, there's JFK's nominee White, who was quite conservative.  So were a few Truman nominees.

by Ramo on Wed Jul 20, 2005 at 09:22:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Good advice (none / 0)

Now see the articles in my paper have been putting him in the Scalia and Thomas mold.  
http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Wed Jul 20, 2005 at 09:44:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

How do you know that (none / 0)

How could you possibly know that he's not a Scalia or Thomas in the making?

Was Souter a member of the Federalist Society?

Did Souter work in the Reagan and Bush I White Houses?

Did Souter spend his entire legal career defending big business?

Was Souter overwhelmingly endorsed by the Business lobby?

by DWCG on Tue Jul 19, 2005 at 11:16:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

For that matter... (none / 0)

...even Scalia didn't seem like Scalia when he was nominated by Reagan.  News stories from the time indicate the Senate overwhelmingly approved Scalia because Senate Dems were worried Reagan would send someone far worse down the pipe than Scalia seemed to be at the time, if they rejected him.
by jonweasel on Tue Jul 19, 2005 at 11:33:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What should we be doing to defeat this (none / 0)

What's his draft record?

Can't find it anywhere except an obscure reference to his not liking Vietnam protests. He was at Harvard from '73-'76. It would have been nigh onto impossible for him to be well-liked and knee-jerk conservative.

Find his Harvard pals. Knowing him then will tell us alot about now.

But absent some huge revelation, how can he not be ratified? He's already clerked. He's already argued there -- brilliantly -- 39 times. He's totally qualified.  The party line has to be: Give him a hard time, but focus on Rovian Treason.

by MazeDancer on Wed Jul 20, 2005 at 02:00:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What should we be doing to defeat this (none / 0)

This nominee is clearly conservative, but not of the rabidly militant type. Small consolation to the left, I know. I believe the most prudent course for the dems to take is to give him a thorough shakedown during the hearings as a matter of record, but pass on a fight.

The reason being is that Bush is very likely to get another nomination this term, and next time the nominee will probably be far more to the base liking as his last hurrah out the door. In light of this the dems should save most of their filibustering political capital -- and the public's patience -- for when it counts the most.

http://operationyellowelephant.blogspot.com/
by Vote Hillary 2008 on Wed Jul 20, 2005 at 08:47:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Dems must filibuster (none / 0)

Legal analysts on PBS last night were unanimously in agreement that Roberts is clearly more conservative than O'Connor.

Roberts is at least as conservative as Rehnquist, and (without a paper trail) could very easily be a Thomas or Scalia. Roberts may very well be a stealth ideologue.

Dems fought for the filibuster for a reason -- for the very situation the Senate is now in with Roberts. Democratic Senators would abdicate progressive principles for a generation if they do not use the filubuster now in a circumstance when Bush is CLEARLY trying to move the court as far to the right as the Senate will let him. Now is the time to test the Gang of 14 agreement.

by JT on Wed Jul 20, 2005 at 02:47:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It will distract attention from Rove but... (none / 0)

Only in the short term. The investigation by the special prosecutor will continue and eventually come to a conclusion. There is no way a fight over the judicial pick will make the Rove controversy disappear. Just like it didn't disappear in the last 2 years despite non-cooperation and cover-up by the white house.

All Bush did was guarantee more months of his 2nd term agenda stuck in the mud. That to me is a good thing and a sore miscalculation on the part of the administration.

Let's face it, short of an indictment Bush will never fire Rove. Therefore the longer he cannot pursue anything of substance in his 2nd term the better, imo.

http://operationyellowelephant.blogspot.com/
by Vote Hillary 2008 on Tue Jul 19, 2005 at 10:06:39 PM EST

Re: It will distract attention from Rove but... (none / 0)

Huh?

Stacking the court IS Bush's agenda. The most important part.

Folks, Bush is accomplishing his agenda. He's gotten some horrible judges through already, he's passed tons of pro-corporate legislation, and now he will get this creep through.

THAT is his agenda.

by Thresholder on Wed Jul 20, 2005 at 09:32:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It will distract attention from Rove but... (none / 0)

No, Bush's agenda requires that he pad his legacy for all eternity, and that requires far bigger fish to fry than you suggest.

Bush wants to privatize social security, reshape the entire mideast, ban gay marriage, and repeal roe vs wade. He's not getting much done so far and his approval rating is in the dirt.

That's exactly how I like it.

http://operationyellowelephant.blogspot.com/
by Vote Hillary 2008 on Wed Jul 20, 2005 at 08:37:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

This will be a tough one to win (none / 0)

He's very conservative, but not bat shit crazy. I don't see how you can argue that he doesn't meet the filibuster test set by the gang of 14.

I just heard on CNN that Lieberman is already praising Roberts. I think the Dems need to go after him hard on issues besides Roe v. Wade. I'd pick the environment and a couple of other issues and try to emphasize his radical conservatism for the record, but from what Aaron Brown had on him, he will do very well at his confirmation hearings.

I think Roberts is getting confirmed. The Dems have let the GOPers push the debate too far to the right for too many decades. Instead of trying to stop Roberts, Dems need to focus on redefining the Constitutional center for the next four or five nominees. Hopefully Bush will get one and a Democrat will get the next four.

by Gary Boatwright on Tue Jul 19, 2005 at 10:42:45 PM EST

Re: This will be a tough one to win (none / 0)

Bush has chosen a nominee so that if there is a fight, it will be on abortion.

Either he gets what he wants, or we get defined (again) as the party of abortion.

This one is not winnable and not worth fighting. Bush has a long list of douchebags he can choose from and he could have done far worse. He's no worse than Rehnquist, Scalia, or Thomas. At this point, I don't see the "Gang of Fourteen" breaking up over this, nor do I see Reid wanting to fight over him.

The Democrats should give him a thourough examination of his record, but Roberts looks like he will be confirmed.

by wayward on Tue Jul 19, 2005 at 11:06:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

How about framing him as a lightweight? (none / 0)

If there's one thing that really bothers me, it's that he looks like a fucking lightweight.

Also, he has a lot of work under his belt as a lobbyist and a campaign contributor.

And, it wouldn't kill to remind people what a goddamned joke Thomas -- the last underage lightweight to fight in this class -- has been.

While I think he has some reassuring ties to Rehnquist and the more stable conservatives, I figure anything worth doing is worth doing right.

Dems need to practice their FUD skills.  The direct approach isn't going to work with Roberts: he's not batshit crazy.

On the other hand, there is the basis for instilling fear, uncertainty, and doubt . . . and that begins with pegging the guy a total lightweight and a tool of the lobbying firms.

Even if it doesn't work, it would be a good way to start test marketing the corruption frame for 2006.

by jcjcjc on Tue Jul 19, 2005 at 11:57:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How about framing him as a lightweight? (none / 0)

I'd rather skip the whole judge fight and concentrate on destroying Karl to remove him from a major role in the 2008 equation.

Dems should voice their objections/concerns for the record, but opposing the appointment is unwinnable. The GOP has the votes to change the rules on filibustering.

Win 2008 and the new president will get a shot at reshaping the court makeup.

http://operationyellowelephant.blogspot.com/
by Vote Hillary 2008 on Wed Jul 20, 2005 at 12:02:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How about framing him as a lightweight? (none / 0)

The only problem with that is that as part of his lobbying he has argued many- in the 30's- cases in front of the supreme court. He knows the law, and has been cited as having a judicial temperment, which is something that Scalia and Thomas sometimes lack in their court opinions. He has had bipartisan support for his previous nominations as one of the best lawyers in the country.

Now, if it were AG Gonzales, I would agree with you 100%. Because the Supreme Court is not a place where you learn about the law.  

by Christopher Hitchens on Wed Jul 20, 2005 at 12:16:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Some things are just par for the course (none / 0)

Barring a live boy or a dead girl, Roberts looks like a lock to me.

So, my feeling is that you play the FUD card.  Make the bastards worry.  Make them seek reassurnace from their leaders.  Make their Senators start questioning him harder.

There's already some FUD going on with Roberts thanks to Souter, Stevens, and the GOP's 50-50 history with getting the right nominees.

They know they screw these things up just as often as they get them right.  And look at what passes for getting it right: friggin' Thomas.

Also, I see no reason not to start whacking away at the center-right divide in the GOP.

Throw him some really late-breaking curveballs.  Where is he on eminent domain?  What are his thoughts on sodomy?  Does he think it would be OK for San Francisco to seize church property to build a commercial sodomy den?

Mess with them.  Make the right and the center look at each other.

Fear, uncertainty, and doubt.  

Roberts is getting through.  No question.  That's why we have to make sure that the rest of the GOP doesn't get through.

by jcjcjc on Wed Jul 20, 2005 at 12:24:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

2009-2017 (none / 0)

That's when the big changes are a-comin'.

Rehnquist is the only conservative in jeopardy.  On the other hand, there's little question that Stevens can't last beyond the 2009-2013 term, and Ginsburg is pretty much the same.

Breyer has some time left.  Kennedy also stands a good chance of making it into the 2013-2017 frame.  Souter is much the same.

Thomas . . . well, to be crude, as a black male Thomas may have more health problems than seems readily apparent.  I wouldn't rule out the possibility of a sudden traumatic death, but one presumes Thomas can easily make it past 2017.

Scalia . . . fuck Scalia.  Thomas is a lightweight and a joker.  Scalia is just a dumb dick who has totally abandoned a principled stance and become a Jesus zombie.  Which means Scalia will probably outlast the last cockroach.

I see Rehnquist leaving the court after next term.  Especially if it looks like a Democratic revolution is on the horizon for 2006.

Ginsburg is probably inclined to hold on until a Dem is in office, but this next election is the last she can get past.  Her determination to outlast Bush will only carry her so far, I'm sorry to say.

Stevens . . . goddamn is that man spry.  He has more spring than a young bunny.  But, it is unrealistic to imagine him getting beyond the next Presidential election.

So . . . Put up a good fight on Roberts, but don't dwell.  Use the opportunity to pull his ears, see if he bites.  Try to test market some frames for 2006.  Call it that and let him pass if nothing juicy comes out of the hearings.

Firm but fair hearings.  Nothing more.

by jcjcjc on Wed Jul 20, 2005 at 12:07:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

a couple thoughts supporting roberts (none / 0)

look, i'm ultra liberal.  i'm not happy that the court will probably be getting a tad more conservative with roberts on board.  but fighting roberts is a terrible, terrible idea.  he is a brilliant highly respected ultra qualified conservative.

it's not that i want him on the court.  it's that there is no way we can win by fighting him.  he doesn't say loony things like janice brown so there is no good way to paint him as a radical.  most importantly, let's just imagine we did beat him, then what?  bush just nominates another super conservative.  what do we try to run out the clock until 2009?  the nation will not abide by that, and the public is right.  that is simply unacceptible.

i also think it is exceedingly brainless to cite the brief he signed (as the sixth signer by the way) while working for the reagan administration as evidence that he personally opposes roe v. wade.  it's called representing a client people, it says nothing about the lawyer's personal views.  we don't know his opinion on roe.  and once again, even if we defeated his nomination, bush can nominate anti-roe nominee after nominee, what will we do?  oppose them all?  

finally i think roberts' generally judicious (though very conservative) temperament gives hope that he won't go doing wacko things like, for example, read the commerce clause to restrict federal power so much that things like social security become illegal.  the states rights stuff is important at the margins, the regulatory state is here to stay.

by snaktime on Tue Jul 19, 2005 at 10:44:25 PM EST

He's not a radical? (none / 0)

Geez, you're playing the Republicans game with your complete and total focus on Roe.

Are you a radical if you think the federal government has no power to regulate business under the commerce clause?

Are you a radical if you think the Voting Rights Act is unconstitutional?

Are those positions you think are in the mainstream and the American people would overwhelmingly support?

There are radicals and then there are lunatics.  Neither belongs on the court and just because one isn't a radical lunatic like Rogers Brown does not mean they're not a radical.

If after the end of this confirmation battle at least 2/3rds of independents watching don't think, "Well that Bush put up a business lackey" then Democrats have failed.

by DWCG on Tue Jul 19, 2005 at 11:06:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He's not a radical? (none / 0)

I am criticizing a myopic focus on Roe, not adopting it.  As for the commerce clause, it's in my view a red herring.  The Supreme Court is not about to declare social security or our civil rights laws unconstitutional.  Ultimately the Rehnquist federalism decisions haven't gone anywhere, they are really just states' rights bluster.  Witness the recent decision allowing the federal government (under the commerce clause) to ban the growth of marijuana for personal use, a blatantly non-commercial activity.

there isn't a judge in the country, including scalia, who believes the commerce clause does not empower the federal government to regulate business.  you're not even in the ballpark of a reasonable criticism of roberts.

by snaktime on Tue Jul 19, 2005 at 11:11:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Might be about to rule EPA is unconstituational (none / 0)

Roberts said in a dissent that the Endangered Species Act was unconstitional.

If the guy says the Endagered Special Act is unconsitutional, he's going to say basically almost any federal regualation is unconstitional.

by afs on Tue Jul 19, 2005 at 11:18:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Might be about to rule EPA is unconstituationa (none / 0)

Your extrapolation from the ESA case to "all regulation" is totall wrong.  The question was whether the ESA was constitutional insofar as it protects species with no commercial value that reside in only one state.  That is a narrow question.  The vast majority of environmental law would not be threatened by the commerce clause stuff.  Nor would most regulation of business for instance labor law be even questionably constitutional even if we had 9 scalias.  if this stuff were threatened, we'd already have these rulings, since O'Connor voted with the bad guys on the states rights stuff.

Look, I don't like the rehquist court's take on the commerce clause, but it's just not the terrifying threat to the regulatory state that critics make it out to be.  

by snaktime on Tue Jul 19, 2005 at 11:25:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Forgive them for they do not know (none / 0)

I am aware of no cases prior to the New Deal that characterized the power flowing from the Commerce Clause as sweepingly as does our substantial effects test. My review of the case law indicates that the substantial effects test is but an innovation of the 20th century.

[....]

As recently as 1936, the Court continued to insist that the Commerce Clause did not reach the wholly internal business of the States. See Carter v. Carter Coal Co., 298 U. S. 238, 308 (1936) (Congress may not regulate mine labor because [t]he relation of employer and employee is a local relation); see also A. L. A. Schechter Poultry Corp. v. United States, 295 U. S. 495, 543-550 (1935) (holding that Congress may not regulate intrastate sales of sick chickens or the labor of employees involved in intrastate poultry sales). The Federal Government simply could not reach such subjects regardless of their effects on interstate commerce.

These cases all establish a simple point: from the time of the ratification of the Constitution to the mid-1930's, it was widely understood that the Constitution granted Congress only limited powers, notwithstanding the Commerce Clause. Moreover, there was no question that activities wholly separated from business, such as gun possession, were beyond the reach of the commerce power. If anything, the wrong turn was the Court's dramatic departure in the 1930's from a century and a half of precedent.

What obscure, powerless District Court judge wrote that opinion: take a look.

by DWCG on Tue Jul 19, 2005 at 11:27:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Forgive them for they do not know (none / 0)

so you think this concurrence by thomas proves that the supreme court might at some point in the future return us to the 1930s understanding of the commerce clause, instantly making all our civil rights laws, social security, and the general administrative state unconstitutional?  throwing our nation into turmoil and probably a massive recession?  sure thomas thinks we made a mistake in 1930, but i bet even he isn't this insane.  but sure, go ahead with your baseless predictions that the Supreme Court will scuttle the entire modern american regulatory state.
by snaktime on Tue Jul 19, 2005 at 11:33:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You're really going to understimate them? (none / 0)

Well I don't know about you, but I'm not comfortable with it even being a possibility.

Also, the High Court doesn't have to deliver draconian decisions like an invalidation of the Civil Rights Act to have a tangible negative impact on American life.

Would a Court rule that the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission is unconstitutional?  Probably not.  But would the Court deliver a ruling that limits the ability of the Congress and people to use the agency to prevent business excesses?  Are you really going to argue a Court with 3 to 4 Thomases wouldn't consider it?  Are you going to tell me a Thomas Court wouldn't deliver an interpretation of the Voting Rights Act or Americans with Disabilities Act that makes lawsuits filed on its grounds shaky at best?

The views of Thomas and other popular judges among conservatives (Owens, Rogers Brown, Pryor, Jones, etc.) are clearly laid out for anyone willing to look.  And if there is one lesson from this president and the business interests that put him in office it is that they're serious as a fucking heart attack.

You underestimate them at our country's peril.

by DWCG on Wed Jul 20, 2005 at 01:27:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

The Real Danger For The Party (none / 0)

Some of the Roberts criticism is ill-conceived, and I doubt if any of the Democratic Senators would pursue some of the lines being suggested here. Frankly, I think Roberts' response to such poorly researched questions would leave some folks with a political black eye. The real danger for the Democratic Party is that it comes across as hostage to liberal interest groups to such a degree that it becomes a drag in the 2006 & 2008 elections.

Roberts is the Republican equivalent of Ginsburg & Breyer.  He'll have the support of his party, the ABA, and well-known Democratic attorneys. Based on what we know today, he meets the historical standards for the S. Ct. The votes aren't there to defeat him (baring a surprise), but even if they were, where would that leave a future Democratic President making S. Ct. appointments?

by SLinVA on Wed Jul 20, 2005 at 12:07:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

The Republican Equivalent of Ginsburg or Breyer (none / 0)

Is that the talking point, now?  Because I'm calling bullshit right now.

For example, Ginsburg served 13 years on this court before she was nominated to the Supreme Court.  Roberts?  2.  Not seeing the similarity, here.

Support Regina Thomas, GA-12
by Drew on Wed Jul 20, 2005 at 12:25:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Real Danger For The Party (none / 0)

How would we know he is the equivalent of anyone? Aren't these the sort of things we need to figure out during the confirmation process. I have read your post along the thread. You are boxing people into a positon where effectively you are arguing, as someone put it below, that unless they are an outward kook, a nomination should not be questioned. Forgetting partisan reasons for a moment, there are some of us crazy, wild people who still believe that the S Ct confirmation process is a co-equal responsibility  between the executive and legislative branches. Your statements are essentially Republican talking points about all of their judicial nominees. You also don't explain why you feel you have any special insight about the American people. What polling data supports your position that Roberts represents the mainstream to them? How would we know if he is not questioned about his philosophy? Again, like I said, this are essentially a rhectorical box and unsubstantiated positions that you are advocating. A vast majority fo the American people say that they want a moderate. The Senate's job is to figure out if this guy is really a moderate or a wingnut- your approach doesn't allow for anyone to figure that out beyond telling us that he's not.
by bruh21 on Wed Jul 20, 2005 at 02:06:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Finally...a voice of reason! (none / 0)

Thank you Chris.  Now talk to your progressive friends in the blogsphere.  Right now you are to Roberts what Armando was to Gonzales in the early part of '05.
by DWCG on Tue Jul 19, 2005 at 10:51:42 PM EST

Roberts isn't that bad (none / 0)

He just thinks that it's okay to arrest twelve year olds for eating french fries on the Metro.

But, I should note, it's not okay for the government to stop radical anti-abortion protestors from blocking clinic entrances.  That's just wrong.

Support Regina Thomas, GA-12
by Drew on Tue Jul 19, 2005 at 11:01:23 PM EST

Re: Roberts isn't that bad (none / 0)

This is the kind of silly attack that gets us no where.  That opinion was unanimous for a reason, as a legal matter the question wasn't even close.
by snaktime on Tue Jul 19, 2005 at 11:08:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Silly? (none / 0)

No, silly is arresting a child for eating french fries, snaktime.

The sort of behavior that gets us nowhere is this "well, he might be okay" or "he's not really that bad" bullshit.  Roberts is a BushCo Supreme Court nominee!  Of course he's bad.  The more voters who hear that, the better.

Support Regina Thomas, GA-12
by Drew on Tue Jul 19, 2005 at 11:42:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Silly? (none / 0)

While I agree that the arrest was silly, the child wasn't the first person to be arrested for eating on the DC Metro.  They're pretty draconian about it, and really, the judges ruled with the law.

In that case, it was the law that needed to change (still does, though Metro seems a little more conscious of the bad publicity).

by jonweasel on Tue Jul 19, 2005 at 11:51:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Silly? (none / 0)

Well yes, it was silly... but there are many times the law is not practiced with common sense.  Taking just that case, what the girl did was technically stealing.  Was it excessive?  Absolutely.  Should the cops have arrested her?  Probably not... but they did.  They followed the letter of the law.  Please remember that many times the letter of the law and common sense disagree with each other.  Look at some of the old laws still on the books...
http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Wed Jul 20, 2005 at 09:55:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

What would you guys ask Roberts? (none / 0)

My first question, just because it might be unexpected from a Dem, is what the bloody hell does he think about that ridiculous eminent domain ruling from this last term!

Then I'd gut him on monopoly issues.

And I think it's we start talking about digital rights.  That includes DRM, fair use, file sharing, responsibility of entities for copying, and the political space of bloggers.  And I damn well want to hear something on the completely idiotic concept of software patents.

Roe v Wade is going to be a rehearsed answer, and he's going to say he doesn't want to promise rulings beforehand.

It's time that we skip that old bullshit, and find new and interesting and RELEVANT issues to ask these guys about.

The most important business rulings since the laissez faire era are about to be coming along.

I want to know if this guy is relevant and informed enough to even joke about them.

I want to know what he aims to do in the digital age.  And I damn well want to know where he stands on individual rights.

That means we should find a way to sneek in the buttfucking question (if Scalia can face, Roberts can, right?).

Let's pull this puppy's ears and see if he bites.

by jcjcjc on Tue Jul 19, 2005 at 11:17:54 PM EST

Ginsburg Rule (none / 0)

It's pretty well accepted that judicial nominees can't take positions on issues likely to come before them. Just about every nominee has taken that position, with some, like Bork, making an exception to address questions related to their previous statements/speeches/writings. Ginsburg made that point fairly strongly during her confirmation hearing, and Republicans are already calling it the Ginsburg Rule.
by SLinVA on Wed Jul 20, 2005 at 12:12:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ginsburg Rule (none / 0)

Basically, if you aren't a kook, then you will probably get confirmed.
by Christopher Hitchens on Wed Jul 20, 2005 at 12:22:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

"Ginsburg Rule" (none / 0)

Sounds like another "constitutional option" to me.
Support Regina Thomas, GA-12
by Drew on Wed Jul 20, 2005 at 12:26:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What would you guys ask Roberts? (none / 0)

Considering that the Liberal justices gave us the Emminent Domain rule (and wisely stated that the LEgislature could limit the power... something I fully expect to happen in most states and federally) I don't know if I would go there as it makes us look bad.

I like the DRM stuff, but that is not a partisan battle.  Hollywood, etc has too many politicians in there pocket from both sides.  I am curious the answer, but frankly I think he scores more points by being gung ho for it... as much as it pains me to say it given my disdain for DRM software and patent law destroying public domain.  I have a feeling the only way that this will change is in congress and frankly as long as the money keeps rolling in Patent law will get worse.  Too many places fighting for it (Software, Entertainment, Pharmatuetical, Engineering etc).  

Personally, I would pepper him with Relevant questions that a majority of Americans support, that he would be against.  Roe is one obviously... throw some other ones that most Americans agree with, but the theocons usually hate.  That may be the best way to trip him up.  

http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Wed Jul 20, 2005 at 10:01:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I just set up a petition that I am ready to roll (none / 0)

with here is the text of it to  Senator Specter:

To:  Honorable Senator Arlen Specter

We, the undersigned, will take a serious hard look at the nomination of Judge John Roberts to the Supreme Court of the United States and are asking for you to do the same. Some of his positions as both an advocate and parts of his judicial philosophy have been antithetical to our values. If Judge Roberts is planning to bring these beliefs to the Sumpreme Court, he will be acting as a radical judicial activist on a multitude of issues. We oppose such radical activism, whether it is from liberal or conservative philosophies.

We understand that you have been attacked by some of the most extreme elements of your party for your commitment to moderation. It is your commitment to moderation that has brought us to making this request of you. Indeed, one of the undersigned had the opportunity to work in Pennsylvania during the 2004 election in a predominantly low income African-American neighborhood. He observed voters wearing Kerry and Specter buttons because the voters believed that you are a fair man who would represent all of them, and not just the special interests of a few. This nomination is an excellent opportunity for moderation to win out over extremism and decrease the divisions in this country.

Please understand that this is not an attack on Judge Roberts, the person. By all accounts, we understand that he is a nice person to know personally. Our concern is that his believes maybe at odds with mainstream values such as fairness and privacy. It was our hope that President Bush would choose a moderate conservative nominee similar to Justice O'Connor that would reflect the hopes and aspirations of all Americans as embodied in the U.S. Constitution. These ideas go beyond affirmative action and abortion into the heart of being Americans. These are beliefs that no conservative or liberal should abridge. It is clear from Judge Robert's own prior actions that he may intend to act as a judicial activist. Therefore, we are requesting that you oppose his entrance as a justice to the Supreme Court if it becomes clear that he will act in such a manner.

Thank you for your consideration.

Sincerely,

by bruh21 on Tue Jul 19, 2005 at 11:31:28 PM EST

Re: I just set up a petition that I am ready to ro (none / 0)

My question is what do you think of it. It's text rather than if you feel we shouldn't do anything. That answer was to be expected from some of you to be quite frank. Because, that's your answer I have realized for everything.
by bruh21 on Tue Jul 19, 2005 at 11:33:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I don't have any problems at all (none / 0)

with a nominee in play

I have to speak of my blood and tell you
of a scottish field

The british charged with heavy horse
a rag-tag bunch of scots pulled stakes
into their momentum.

And that day scotland won their freedom,
there were defeats to follow, and
beheadings of my ancestors..

But there were also farmers who
became soldiers and unity amongst
them,

they played a trick on the enemy.
those who would be wanting to hide
Karl Rove behind all of this will
be charging at you with heavy horse.

just check opensecrets.org if you don't
believe me. Millions of bucks will be burned
on this. Just has the earmark of rove
all over it, bloated, fat, expensive,
and pointless.

Official position: Don't care about Roberts,
upset about Rove still right now.

And hey, you know, maybe turd blossom
is a nice guy but he's al qaeda to me
right now and if the patriot act
doesn't apply to people helll bent on
destroying secret soldiers of the USA
then what does?

by turnerbroadcasting on Wed Jul 20, 2005 at 02:05:59 AM EST

I think Bush just stepped in a big pile of (none / 0)

Barney's poo.

He just picked a white guy with a very short resume. Ideology aside, this is the wrong message to send. It's not that we need quotas for our SCotUS justices. O'Connor need not followed by a woman or a minority. But I would guess that women and minorities probably would want any white male nominee to be surpremely qualified. Better than any women or minority candidate out there...(not because white male candidates are inherently so, but because of the obvious head start they've had.)

Roberts does smell like a hack. He is a Federalist Society member who clerked for Sauron himself, William Rehnquist, before joining a DC firm specializing in cases about federal issues. He knows little but the affluence of being a rich man's son and attending Harvard College and Harvard Law. And he reappears in the Florida 2000 debacle.

So if the Dems go against him, the key is not to fall into the trap of citing his comments on abortion. More important is (much like John Bolton who also worked on the recount) to ask about his opinion on the role of state and federal governments. This won't be prime-time stuff until the Senators ask about terrorism and other applications of federalism.

Rove sure hopes that a conflagration over abortion makes his troubles disappear. But that's wishful thinking. Judicial nominations take up lots of ink, but never enough for an Administration in trouble.

by risenmessiah on Wed Jul 20, 2005 at 04:00:57 AM EST


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