This should be fun

Today, in response to my stagant right-wing blogopshere post, I received this email from Polipundit:
I respond to your post: http://polipundit.com/index.php?p=8279

BTW, you may not know this, but Jerome Armstrong and I jumped on the Howard Dean bandwagon very early, and for very different reasons. In early 2003, we used to trade hopeful polls about how well Dean was doing in, say, Iowa.

It's a pity Dean couldn't be your presidential candidate. But I'm really, really, glad he's your party chairman. I hope you keep him there forever :-)

Here are exceprts from the post:
Liberal Chris Bowers argues that conservative blogs have less traffic than liberal blogs because liberal blogs allow reader comments:(...)

First, I'll note that polipundit.com gets above 200,000 pages views per week, using the BlogAds numbers that Bowers uses. In fact, we're in the top 20 conservative political blogs by any reckoning. And we do allow comments. In fact, the four "guest" bloggers on this blog all started out as regular commenters. And other commenters have gone on to start their own highly successful blogs, like Scott Elliott's Election Projection.

So why don't most other conservative blogs allow comments? Because liberals are jerks. If a conservative blog allows comments, it is immediately overrun by juvenile, illiterate, liberal hecklers who ruin the comments section. We here at polipundit.com have been fighting this ever since I turned on comments, and only ceaseless vigilance has allowed us to keep the comments section open. If a larger conservative/libertarian blog, like InstaPundit, were to start a Comments section, then the blogger would have to spend every waking moment policing liberal trolls.

So the net takeaway is this: If you believe Bowers' reasons and polipundit.com's experience, liberal bloggers have more traffic because liberals have succeeded in heckling conservative blog readers into silence.

What this blogger seems to lack in imagination when it comes to blogging platforms (ever heard of Scoop?), s/he seems to more than make up for in victimization. I commented on the thread:
If you will notice, my definition of a true community site is actually one that allows not just comments, but also allows users to write diaries / articles / polls. Of course some right-wing blogs have comments. In fact, eight or nine of the top sixteen in terms of traffic have comments. that, however, was not the definition I was using. The seven sites I listed as "community" sites allow their readers to do a lot more than just post comments. If I was only using comments as the definition of a community site, than nearly every blog would fit the bill.

Also, MyDD was overrun by trolls in late 2002, which eventually caused its collapse from the top of the liberal blog traffic rankings. The same was happening to Dailykos in the summer of 2003. However, shutting off comments is not the only way to prevent from being overrun by trolls. Its called Scoop-the blogger platform that has allowed the liberal blogosphere to pull away from the conservative blogosphere in terms of traffic. Redstate.org has already figured this out. If you would take a moment to stop blaming liberals for oppressing conservative bloggers, you might be able to figure it out as well.

I don't even know why I am bothering with this. I can't imagine that I would accomplish anything except encouraging more conservatives to use Scoop, which would very quickly allow them to become more competitive with liberal bloggers. I'd rather not have that. Still, so far in the thread, I have found nothing but resistance to the idea of letting people post diaries and form a real community. I guess the simple fact that liberals use Scoop will make conservatives resist it into infinity.



Display:


Its the Liberals (none / 0)

What if Liberals signed up?  And wrote Diaries?  And could rate comments?  On a conservative site?  Their heads would explode.  Not becasue it's happened, but because their own anti-liberal propoganda has so permeated their brain cells that they have none left for thinking clearly -- which is why they need blogs which simply tell them what to think.
by David in Burbank on Tue Jun 14, 2005 at 01:55:07 PM EST

And one More thing.... (none / 0)

"liberals have succeeded in heckling conservative blog readers into silence."

Ah, so we are good at something...a chink in their armor?  If we keep it up maybe we can heckle them off the internet altogether.  Maybe, if we heckle hard enough, they'll vote for Democrats just to shut us up (for a while!)

Their problem is they respond to trolls - because shouting matches are their idea of fun.  I've seen them tear into each other just to play the one-ups-manship game they mistake for debate.

And yes, why did you bother.

by David in Burbank on Tue Jun 14, 2005 at 02:03:58 PM EST

Re: And one More thing.... (none / 0)

"liberals have succeeded in heckling conservative blog readers into silence."

Then PowerLine must be run by conservatives, since it won't let their readers speak.

The one big conservablog that allows comments is LGF.  And you can't tell me truthfully that liberals have any power over there.  Especially since Charles Johnson, like JimRob over at the proto-blog FreeRepublic.com, likes to zap liberals and their comments.  

Conservatives hate being exposed to truth, so they call it 'heckling'.

by Phoenix Woman on Tue Jun 14, 2005 at 02:18:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Most right wing 'blogs', like 'free'republic.com (none / 0)

ban users who post anything that disagrees with the current GOP party line.. so they aren't really communities..

Here, if someone is polite, they can post whatever they would like. In other words, ideas enliven us, they don't threaten us..

We can deal with the truth, we also can deal with people's lies.. (of course, if they get caught, they lose their reputations, but they can sign up again under a different login...)

The GOP community is fundamentally different than the Dem community in that they are very hierarchical.. But even if the most loyal GOP supporter in the world, it wont get you far of they feel your ideas are too 'creative'..

Thats why, in the long run, they are losing and they know it.. They are trying to turn back the clock..

by ultraworld on Wed Jun 15, 2005 at 12:58:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

One caveat (none / 0)

But I think it is an important one.  The way SCOOP is set up, trolls are very quickly gotten rid of.  However, it is also the case that the rating system can and has been abused, in at least two ways.

a.  At Daily Kos, for example, regarding the pie fight issue - there was passionate disagreement on both sides, and the ratings ability became a way for people to simply signal their disagreement with each other.  I saw intelligent, passionate, insightful comments, on both sides, that would get rated with a zero - simply because of disagreement.  There were even a lot of people complaining about the raters rating down, saying this isn't what ratings should be used for.
b. Similarly, I've seen conserative posters, intelligent, polite, respectful, get "troll-rated" almost immediately, due to their disagreement - again, no matter how intelligent or polite the comment.  Very quickly, these users disappear.  

I'm not sure that is a good thing or bad, I guess it depends on the purpose of the community.

The final point - SCOOP doesn't "protect minority rights", so to speak.  

by jc on Tue Jun 14, 2005 at 02:04:22 PM EST

Re: One caveat (none / 0)

But people are already wising up to this.  

For one thing, there's a way to monitor the folks who cast the most 'troll' votes to make sure that they aren't gaming the system.

by Phoenix Woman on Tue Jun 14, 2005 at 02:21:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: One caveat (3.00 / 0)

For Scoop-style moderation to work, you really need a culture of intellectual honesty, and DailyKos, for all its good points, doesn't really have that. Its partly due to the format of Scoop. In other community blogs (SlashDot, Plastic), moderation is almost a hallowed institution with a great deal of respect and attention paid to the precious few mod points that are occasionally doled out to high-scoring individuals. Its understood that the quality of the site is in the hands of the moderators, so I think they typically put a little more thought and a little less knee-jerk into it. Those sites also give greater visibility to high scoring comments, indulging the vanity of intelligent people.

But that's all because on Plastic and Slashdot, the value is in the comments. On Scoop sites, if you have anything really substantial to say, you do it in a diary. The fact is that a lot of DailyKos posts are incendiary and designed to sustain momentum against Bush and the Republicans, which is a fine aim, in my opinion, but not one that lends itself to careful reflection. MyDD is much better in that way, but I'd like to see a more Plastic-like format, because I think the reason the Democrats lost power is because they made the same mistake that the Republicans are now making: thinking that because your party is in power, your ideas are solid.

DailyKos is great for some things, and not so great for others. MyDD fills that void, although the comments section is sadly undermanned.

by MrOnion on Tue Jun 14, 2005 at 03:39:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: One caveat (none / 0)

Good response - I'd rate you up, but that would be hypocritical of me, since I brought up the subject of ratings!

:)

by jc on Tue Jun 14, 2005 at 05:40:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

we put up with loonies tho (none / 0)

i won't mention names but there are a few people i wish would just go away.

by aiko on Tue Jun 14, 2005 at 04:12:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I hope I'm not one... (none / 0)

Sometimes I hit the return key too fast and feel.."why did I say that?"

I am way too cynical, I wouldn't wish that on anybody..its not fun..

chalk it up to a hard life's experiences..

by ultraworld on Wed Jun 15, 2005 at 01:01:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

No (none / 0)

What you describe is blogging remorse/like buyers remorse.  its common.
by aiko on Thu Jun 16, 2005 at 12:22:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

asdf (none / 0)

Clearly a case where Polipundit believes his own spin too much. If he thinks that the Republicans are going to win a single election based upon who the Democratic Chairman is, he's living in wishingland.

As per scoop, I wouldn't be too worried about it; even if they did adopt it in mass, they'd still be behind the dev curve, unless they got scoop hackers to start deve, but then they'd never pull ahead, which is fine. Open Source is not a playing field the Republicans can afford to go, they depend upon unequal resources in order to win, because matching up the ideas against ideas, they lose; only with excessive propoganda have they won, and then, only by inches.

by Jerome Armstrong on Tue Jun 14, 2005 at 02:45:24 PM EST

I was glad to see the estimable Chris Bowers (none / 0)

ripped apart by the polipundit commenters.  I am a glutton for punishment so I post there often as Liberal Chris.  Apparently not even our most persuasive and articulate folks like Bowers can escape their incisive and irrefutable conservative wisdom.
by snaktime on Tue Jun 14, 2005 at 03:07:00 PM EST

We don't censor right wing comments here... (none / 0)

...provided they aren't trollish.  I personally will vote up any comment by a conservative person who unfairly gets a zero or a one here.
by Geotpf on Tue Jun 14, 2005 at 03:39:36 PM EST

This guy says every waking minute, policing? (none / 0)


It shouldn't matter whether you're a liberal
or a conservative, it should matter whether
or not you're correct.

This crowd of so-called republicans we have up
in DC are just the cat's meow when it comes
to spending cash

I say: Let them eat cake! IF they want a police
state, lets give it to 'em!!  They like
Gitmo so much? Fine. Let them go there.

by turnerbroadcasting on Tue Jun 14, 2005 at 04:10:45 PM EST

oh its you (none / 0)


by aiko on Tue Jun 14, 2005 at 04:12:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

If comments invite Liberal Trolls (none / 0)

Why don't the liberal blogs become overrun with wingnut trolls? Stupid logic in example once again from the right.

Comments creat trolls = liberals fault.
Open forum is bad = liberals fault.
Gas prices up = liberals fault.
1,700 dead in Iraq = liberals fault
Global warming = liberals fault
Gravity = liberals fault

What are these guys? Third graders? "I know you are but what am I" is not a winning argument.

Witty comment goes here...
by michael in chicago on Tue Jun 14, 2005 at 06:04:55 PM EST

Right Wing Blogs Are Going Down (none / 0)

The problem for rightwing blogs is that all the stuff they were pushing for (particularly the war in Iraq) has already happened and was a failure.  They can no longer promote their political ideas because, being the majority, their ideas have either been put into action (Iraq) and failed or they have been largely rejected by the populace (Terry Schiavo, Social Security).  It is much easier to promote ideas to people than it is to spin the reality right in front of them.
by steve expat on Tue Jun 14, 2005 at 08:19:21 PM EST

There's so much money and power behind the right (none / 0)

there will always be people willing to suck up..
as long as they are willing to pay...
by ultraworld on Wed Jun 15, 2005 at 01:02:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Liberal blogs for news, right blogs for propaganda (3.00 / 1)

Liberal blogs get more traffic than Right Wing blogs for the simple reason that they offer a value added commodity - the news.  On the other hand, blogs representing the right rarely stray from the Republican talking points propaganda and thus offer nothing you cannot see on Fox or hear on conservative talk radio.  In essence, they are redundant.
by Voltairean on Wed Jun 15, 2005 at 02:14:39 PM EST

Perceptive Point (none / 0)

"...blogs representing the right rarely stray from the Republican talking points propaganda and thus offer nothing you cannot see on Fox or hear on conservative talk radio.  In essence, they are redundant. "

And I'm sorry I am 4 days late in seeing it.  Oh, well, better late than never.

by ATinNM on Sat Jun 18, 2005 at 04:24:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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