Kerry's gang trying to grasp defeat from Reid's victory

Now that Bush has been defeated by the nationwide netroots/grassroots uprising against his efforts to privatize Social Security, in steps in the trio, James Carville, Stanley Greenberg, and Marshall Wittmann, with a "memo" of what the Democrats are doing wrong, with their pointman John Kerry trying to set Harry Reid straight.

A few days ago, Balz wrote about Reid and Kerry clashing over tactics. Yep, Kerry is said to have told Reid he was missing the boat, "and needed a plan to prevent Bush from seizing the middle ground in the Social Security fight."  A plan-- the party needs a plan.... for what, why and when? Democrats are in the minority, and still, we have this trio with John Kerry's ear telling him he needs a lead with a plan. Nonsense, this does nothing but cover George Bush's failure.

The Note was right, Republicans, as the governing party that cooked up this great "crisis", will succeed in not even releasing a plan by Bush, as they need only let the likes of Carville, Greenberg, and Wittman to smoke out the Democrats to release a plan for the "problem" before Bush, and without a doubt, it will suggest raising taxes on the wealthy. Then Democrats will go on the defensive as the Republicans attack the tax-party, then Carville, Greenberg, and Wittman will blame the liberals...

This plan is re-run of past defeats, and the one listening to Carville, Greenberg, and Wittman is John Kerry. "We're off in a ditch" says Republican Graham, and Kerry's got a plan to pull the Republicans out! Good thing that Ried put Kerry in his place. Let the Republicans and Bush twist in the wind. Let Bush continue his 60-city tour without a plan. Keep this trio's plan warming the backbench with Kerry, who is apparently still running for President. Whatever, Bush is the President, where's his plan? I've looked all over the WhiteHouse website, and Republican websites, and nowhere can I find Bush's plan, The Republicans haven't even presented an outline of Bush's plan?

...four months later, Bush would still beat Kerry, Zogby found, 46-42 percent, with 7% choosing 3rd party. At least Bush can't run again.

Update: Besides Reid, here's another Democrat that gets in, from today's story in the WaPost, Bush's Misplayed Hand, by EJ Dionne:

And then there are those pesky Democrats. Rep. David Obey says his party colleagues can't be expected to put forward a full alternative to Bush's ideas until a Bush plan actually exists. "Given that he's the person who says that this debate needs to start now and needs to start with such a radical approach, he's got an obligation to lay his specific plan on the table," Obey says. "What he's put on the table is not a plan, it's a concept -- and Congress doesn't enact concepts."



Display:


It would be nice if Kerry doesn't run either (none / 0)

Sigh.
by Geotpf on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 11:00:06 AM EST

Hah. (1.85 / 7)

And four months later, leading bloggers still can't get over bashing Kerry.
by Covin on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 11:03:17 AM EST

Re: Hah. (none / 0)

I actually took a 3 month haitus :)
by Jerome Armstrong on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 11:06:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hah. (none / 0)

I think that was incredibly charitable of you Jerome. My room-mate talked me into giving Bush a one day grace period on President's day and I almost made it to noon.
by Gary Boatwright on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 12:53:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hah. (none / 0)

If you walk around with a sign on your back saying Kick Me!... then you shouldn't be surprised when you get kicked.

Reid is nice enough to try and pull that sign off the back of Kerry... but Carville et all are quick to put it back. What are friends for?

by dryfly on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 12:02:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Give em HELL Harry (3.00 / 2)

Reid has stood out in his ability to say and do the right thing. We don't need to be told what's wrong with us. The rethugs do enough of that already. We need to stand up Shoulder to Shoulder against the repuglican onslaught.
by eddieb on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 11:08:03 AM EST

Blogger backing of Harry Reid (3.00 / 1)

It proves that Democrats aren't craving some uber-liberal to make America into the pinko super gay village the GOP claims we want it to be.

We just want a leader with a goddamned spine!

by jcjcjc on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 11:30:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Blogger backing of Harry Reid (none / 0)

What an enlightened, educated, vibrant, colorful exciting, interesting and fun place America would become if that liberal craving you spoke of were realized :)
by eddieb on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 11:41:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Blogger backing of Harry Reid (3.00 / 1)

The reason so many moderate Dems like myself have ACTIVELY supported uber liberals is because up until lately they were the ONLY ones with spines... that didn't just roll over and lube up for the GOP... then whine because they weren't 'respected' in the morning...
by dryfly on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 12:06:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Blogger backing of Harry Reid (3.00 / 1)

Actually, I do crave a time when uber-liberals have power in America. But I'm smart enough and patient enough to respect the fact that I can't always get what I want.

In the meantime, I'm very grateful for a moderate Dem like Harry Reid who stands up to the uber-right wingnuts currently running the country.

by Curt Matlock on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 12:21:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Blogger backing of Harry Reid (none / 0)

Maybe Kerry doesn't like to be upstaged.

Judging by the slew of eMails I receive weekly from his office, his '08 campaign has already begun.

"Seizing the middle" on Soc Sec will not be appreciated by millions of Americans who depend/are counting on Social security.

It will instead be seen by all as the usual cynical positioning by a party looking to regain control instead of doing the people's work.

If these guys go limp on Social security, it's just OVER.

by JohnS on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 12:31:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

sKerry's Frickin Campaigning All Right... (none / 0)

While the wingers are assaulting retirees and disabled people, trying to put working stiffs into debt-peonage, and schools are starting to crumble under the weight of un-funded NCLB, John Frikkin' Kerry is fighting hard to get...

...hearings in the Finance Committee for his "Kids First Act".

Hearings!!!

Like those wingers running that committee will ever let his Act see the light of day.

He should be out there in the street every day blasting away at Bush, but he still isn't. Saying something about the fluster cluck in Ohio-- but he isn't. Skull and Bones buddies, I guess. I mean, seems like THK is doing his heavy lifting for him.

by ItsBeenCalmingForSomeTime on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 08:07:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Oh, no, Kerry bashing (none / 0)

Better be careful.  Many folks aren't too keen on pointing out what a grotesque and flawed creature Kerry is.

And, of course, he and George just happen to run in the same circles.  College life.  Small world.  Six degrees including you and me. All that.

by jcjcjc on Thu Mar 10, 2005 at 12:46:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Blogger backing of Harry Reid (3.00 / 1)

Exactly...I remember how leary the Blogosphere was about Reid's selection.  I know he has impressed the hell out of me...Although I do have an issue with the fact he didn't fight the Bankruptcy "reform" bill more.  I thought I had read somewhere he was infavor of it, but I could be wrong.  Other than that, I give him strong marks.

Now if we can get a House Minority leader with a spine and a presidential candidate with the will to fight back (Neither Gore or Kerry was that person) we can not only win back the WH and Congress, but can grow our majority for the next few generations.  

http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 12:37:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Blogger backing of Harry Reid (none / 0)

Give our party chair a chance.  Dean is working behind the scenes and I think his influence over how party leaders conduct themselves will begin to show itself enventually.
by aiko on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 12:43:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Leading horses to water... (none / 0)

You can lead horse to water but you can't make them drink. On the other hand you can also lead them to the slaughterhouse and turn them into pet food and glue... there are always choices.
by dryfly on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 01:09:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Leading horses to water... (none / 0)

You can lead a horse to water, but you have to feed him a lot of salt before he'll drink.

(I hope there's a Dean equivalent in there somewhere)

by zappatero on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 02:12:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Blogger backing of Harry Reid (none / 0)

I supported Dean for DNC...So I will give him a chance.  That being said, Pelosi has just PISSED me off over the last few years.  I don't like her, think she was a poor choice and think we need someone else in charge.  She ran as a fighter, but has done very little to fight.
http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 01:18:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The GOP's biggest mistake in 20 years (3.00 / 1)

Was ending Tom Daschle's reign as concession stand operator of the Senate Dems.

Daschle was a wuss.  He never saw fit to call the GOP out on their crap.

The beauty of Reid is that he is clearly a case of a moderate who is a Dem not because he agrees with Ted Kennedy 99% of the time, but because he sure as hell disagrees with the very existence of Tom DeLay all the time.

by jcjcjc on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 03:34:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The GOP's biggest mistake in 20 years (none / 0)

Some Democrats were worried about Reid's position on abortion and his moderate positions on other social issues.

But Reid is a good Democrat, even though he may disagree with that one plank of the platform. I'll tell you right now, I'd much rather have Reid fighting than Daschle rolling over and playing dead.

Now, all he needs is 40 other Democrats to fight with him.

by wayward on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 08:20:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Abortion (none / 0)

I agree with Harry Reid on a lot of issues.

While I'm anti-abortion, I've never taken it as a cornerstone issue.  I think most anti-abortion Dems are the same way.

I generally agree with the position that the problem with the GOP position on abortion is that it doesn't care what happens once that non-aborted individual is born.  I guess Jesus is covering first base on that throw.

by jcjcjc on Thu Mar 10, 2005 at 12:42:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Abortion (none / 0)

I'm somewhere in the middle. Therefore, I piss everyone off.

I used to be strongly anti-abortion, but I realized how unworkable and impractical banning abortion would be. Making abortion illegal would only lead to illegal abortion. I also like my constitutionally implied right to privacy.

The best way to reduce abortion is to help women have and take care of their kids, something the right doesn't seem to care about.

I have been arguing for sometime that this issue shouldn't be a cornerstone issue. I know too many good people with strong beliefs on both sides of the debate. It shouldn't be a litmus test as to whether or not one is a good Democrat.

by wayward on Thu Mar 10, 2005 at 07:13:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Privacy (none / 0)

I've always felt there should be a Constitutional amendment enshrining the right to privacy.  None of this "implied" right.
by jcjcjc on Thu Mar 10, 2005 at 09:55:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Privacy (none / 0)

I agree. Individual freedom is out of fashion however.

<snark>
The Republicans will get to a privacy amendment right after they enshrine gay bigotry as part of the constitution.
</snark>

by Curt Matlock on Thu Mar 10, 2005 at 10:41:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Privacy (none / 0)

Snark comes with HTML tags?!  Wow!  Now I want to programming a web-bot that just spews snark onto ever page it can google.

What do folks think of the Dems pushing a Privacy Amendment to the Constitution?

After all, every wannabe pundit says the left (eg the Dems) is "out of ideas".

There's an idea.  It's pathetic that in over 200 years of democracy no one has ever put the word "privacy" into the Constitution.

Plus, it would be a gorgeous wedge issue.  We could run on a "what kind of sick bastard would oppose privacy" platform.

We could cast the GOP's opposition as proof that they are the party of big government invading your life.  And with Clinton's base of anti-big gov't already in place, and Bush's let's-see-how-big-it-can-get-before-it-explodes philosophy, we could batter the GOP on this one.

Privacy?  What d'ya think?

It's as good as their constantly parroting freedom, and easier to legislate.

by jcjcjc on Thu Mar 10, 2005 at 12:54:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Privacy (none / 0)

Privacy Amendment. Wedge issue. I like the idea.

BTW, those were XML tags. ;)

by Curt Matlock on Thu Mar 10, 2005 at 01:23:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Privacy (none / 0)

The beauty of a Privacy Amendment is that GOP politicos would read PRIVACY = ABORTION.

They'd freak the hell out, saying it enshrines abortion into the Constitution.

The average person would be puzzled, because unless you've been weaned on politics, you don't read PRIVACY that way.

No more than the average person reads FREEDOM and PATRIOTISM as backdoor approaches to despotism.

I feel a diary posting in hear somewhere.  I'll have to gather my thoughts into a slightly more coherent proposition.

by jcjcjc on Thu Mar 10, 2005 at 02:46:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Amazing how Americans like fighters (none / 0)

For all Bush's flaws, the guy's a friggin pit bull when it comes to political fights.  A brain damaged pit bull with no judgment.  But a pit bull nonetheless.

Fortunately, Bush has finally broken his leash and come right after the entire Democratic party with this SocSec crap.

Now, the Dems will learn what it takes to end this right-wing blather-as-loud-as-you-can and kill-everything-in-sight approach to politics.

by jcjcjc on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 03:39:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Thank God Kerry lost (none / 0)

Can you imagine how badly this guy would have destroyed the Democratic party? Is he stupid, tone deaf or corrupt? Where do we find Democrats who are so damned ignorant?
by Gary Boatwright on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 11:08:39 AM EST

Kerry was in on the fix (2.00 / 2)

Anyone want to believe it now?

John Kerry has always put up flares that let us know he is somehow in on the fix.

This is just more proof.

The guy has no political backbone.  He is a hypocrite of the first degree (his gun stance is just precious compared to his own gun collection).  

This is a guy who picked Dan Quayle's little brother to be his Veep.  He could have picked my dog and gotten someone who was better prepared for he job.

John Kerry is, by far, the most unprincipled man to run for President in ages.  And that says worlds when you think abou American politics.

by jcjcjc on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 11:27:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Kerry was in on the fix (none / 0)

Jeez!  Thanks for letting us know just how clueless you truly are.  

Otherwise folks might confuse you with folks like me who have a whole litanny of reality-based objections to the way Kerry ran his campaign, his abandonment of the Ohio voters, etc.  The next time someone accuses me of Kerry-bashing, I'll have to remember to keep a link to this handy, so I can tell them:

See, this is what real Kerry-bashing looks like, and I think the guy is a fruitcake.

Calling John Edwards "Dan Quayle's little brother", I mean, how do you even begin to respond to such a monumentl non sequiter?

Like I said, thanks for letting us know just how clueless you truly are.  

by Paul Rosenberg on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 01:00:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Kerry was in on the fix (none / 0)

Agreed on that one Paul. That one was even a little over the top for me and nobody has ever accused me of being pro-Kerry. It is sometimes difficult to draw the line between constructive criticism, ranting and becoming shrill.

That being said, the kindest words I have for Kerry is that he doesn't seem to be helping his cause much lately.

by Gary Boatwright on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 02:32:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Explain Kerry's positions (none / 0)

Kerry's positions were a monument to hypocrisy.

I want his gun control position explained.  How the hell does some who votes FOR the assault weapons ban own an arsenal of weapons that it bans?

Also, how the hell does ANYONE vote against the Gulf War, but has no problem voting for the Iraq War?  Who the hell does that?!

I'm sorry.  But something never was right about John Kerry.  About the time he goes duck hunting in an outfit so new the tags were probably removed by a staffer before the photos were shot, it struck me what a friggin crime Kerry was.

Explain Kerry to me.

Explain why it is wrong to bash a man so flawed that the DNC should be slapped for not keeping the receipt.

by jcjcjc on Thu Mar 10, 2005 at 12:03:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Kerry _was_ the fix. (none / 0)

I don't buy the idea that Kerry was complicit; though he may be a hypocrite and the rest. I think he was the guy the Reeps most wanted to run against, because they'd been watching and digging up dirt on him since 1971. They knew how to bait him, what accusations to make, what labels they could stick him with, never mind any dirty secrets that might have been in the custody of that Yalie sex club they were both members of. That doesn't make him complicit; he's a patsy.

Do you think his role in the BCCI and Iran-Contra investigations was some kind of put on?

Are we safer yet?
by catastrophile on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 06:08:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Kerry _was_ the fix. (none / 0)

"Do you think his role in the BCCI and Iran-Contra investigations was some kind of put on? "

Isn't this an absurd proposition?

It's the equivalent of claiming that Nixon knew during the Eisenhower administration that he was going to be complicit in the Watergate break-in.

As for what Kerry's "investigator" role was . . .  how about the same thing everything he did was: playing his political cards.

The fact is, Kerry was too perfect.  He screwed up on nearly every point possible.  He made an effort to look like a jackass.

Let's be honest: who the hell does that dumbass "reporting for duty" speech he did at the DNC?

My God!  My cat could write better lines than that.  What kind of failure of judgment is it when a man wishing to be leader of the free world behaves so eratic and defenseless?

It isn't a failure at all.  It's just proof that when you take two fortunate sons from the same secret society, you might want to keep an eye out for backdoor action.

by jcjcjc on Thu Mar 10, 2005 at 12:09:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thank God Kerry lost (none / 0)

What a stupid thing to say.  I think you exist just to piss me off.  
by aiko on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 11:33:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thank God Kerry lost (none / 0)

Glad to be of service. I always try to please.
by Gary Boatwright on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 11:59:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thank God Kerry lost (none / 0)

I wish he wasn't the President, but I would still like Kerry over Bush any day of the week.
http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 12:39:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thank God Kerry lost (none / 0)

Oops, meant I wish he wasn't the candidate...
http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 12:39:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thank God Kerry lost (3.00 / 1)

This is ludicrous!

Look, I'm quite critical of Kerry. He ran an abysmal campaign, given everything he had going for him. But you are way over-reacting here. It's nothing more than the same reason he lost the election--believing the triangulation rationale hype that sank our party in the first place.

Yes, folks, triangulation came BEFORE the 1994 debacle, not after it. They didn't call it that at the time, but consider: A single-payer health care plan had 100 House co-sponsor before Clinton triangulated with his corporate-friendly monstrosity, which the corporate types then helped kill. That was the big enchilada, which helped us lose control of Congress in the first place. There were others, too.

The only way we get rid of this is by throwing people out of power. There is no other way. We don't necessarily need to throw all of them out. But we need to throw enough of them out so that the  rest are forced to operate in a whole different environment.

Kerry has some very good qualities. But he's responding to the wrong set of signals, and he's a powerful amplifier. He definitely needs to be opposed when he does this--and I'll certainly do that. And I'll get accused of "bashing" him for my troubles. But I won't <actually bash him--at least not until he enters Joementum land. If he does that, then I'll start bashing.

by Paul Rosenberg on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 11:38:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thank God Kerry lost (none / 0)

I admire your patience Paul. How do we get him to tune in to the right signals? Can we send him a new hearing aid?

I just can't understand how Biden, Kerry and Lieberman can all be so politically tone deaf. It defies credulity.

by Gary Boatwright on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 12:01:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

New State Chairs Is A Good Start (none / 0)

I don't think there's a magic bullet here. We have to fight this on multiple fronts. Certainly the rash of new state chairs is a start--particularly since it's coming from all angles. A new chair in Colorado is particularly significant since Colorado is supposed to be "working" according to them. (Sure, Kerry lost the state, but....)

But the point is, we have to change the environment. And defining the terms is a large part of it.  One point to hammer home is that you can't be reasonable and pragmatic when dealing with today's GOP. There is nothing reasonable and pragmatic about them. If you want to be reasonable and pragmatic, then you have to fight them tooth and nail.

That is not being partisan, it is being pragmatic.   When you're dealing with a homicidal maniac, the pragmatic thing is not to work out a power-sharing arrangement over who gets to hold the hand gernade first vs. who gets first dibs on the submachine gun.

by Paul Rosenberg on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 12:53:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: New State Chairs Is A Good Start (none / 0)

Well put, Paul.  The GOP doesn't recognize rules, they take power through any means possible.   We can't pretend that they act like reasonable people.
by KDMfromPhila on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 02:25:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thank God Kerry lost (none / 0)

Take a look at Lieberman's, Biden's and Kerry's voting record so far this year.  

Kerry did not sell out the middle class on the cloture vote.  He did not vote for Gonzales or for Condi Rice.  The other two did.

They should not be clumped together!!

by bellarose on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 07:39:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thank God Kerry lost (3.00 / 0)

Ignore Kerry - he is, despite Carvilles efforts - irrelevant. Stop worrying about him... time to move on.
by dryfly on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 12:09:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thank God Kerry lost (none / 0)

I just had a flashback. I seem to recall reading in The Education of Henry Adams the conclusion that Politicians are like a boar hog. Sometimes you have to whack them on the snout with a large stick to get their attention. Maybe it was a mule instead of a boar hog.

Does anybody have a sturdy 2 X 4 handy?

by Gary Boatwright on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 12:41:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thank God Kerry lost (none / 0)

Yes.  We would be bettter off in almost every way had Kerry won.

But Carville is stuck back in the '90s.  He can;t see that what worked for Clinton in another time won't work now, after 9/11, five years more to the Right and in light of the Bush Grand Plan to remake the US economny and the World in his own dismal image.  Get with the times!

We need a bold vision on our side, not more "triangulation" and small things.  We don't need a "plan" on Social Security.  Everyone knows what the deal is IF what we are after is truly saving a social insurance program.  We need a "plan" to reknit American society, to get the generations to care about each other again, to get the rich to pay their fair share, and to offer people a greater vision of life than more cheap Chinese goods at Wal-Mart.

Once someone makes that case, the rest will follow.

by Mimikatz on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 02:12:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Follow the links. (none / 0)

Ignore Jerome's clever cut-and-past job:

Kerry was unhappy with the posture of the Democrats and told Reid that they needed to be far more aggressive in fighting President Bush, needed to set up what amounted to a perpetual campaign and needed a plan to prevent Bush from seizing the middle ground in the Social Security fight.

Yes.  God forbid that we have a president who believes we need to be "far more aggresive" and launch a "perpetual campaign" against the Republicans.

Support Regina Thomas, GA-12
by Drew on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 11:43:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Follow the links. (3.00 / 2)

And what did Reid say to Kerry in THE NEXT PARAGRAPH:

Reid responded that he had set up a campaign-style war room and taken other steps to put the Democrats in fighting mode and made it clear he wasn't going to change course just because Kerry thought something different was needed.

Which I'm glad he did say. Reid is fighting hard now than Kerry was the week before the election. And presenting a plan before Bush on Social Security would be political malpractice.

But this was my favority paragraph:

But several of those in the room described it as an awkward and tough exchange that left no one in doubt as to who was in charge of Senate Democrats. "Reid kind of shot him down," said one person privy to the exchange, adding, "You would never have seen [former Senate Democratic Leader] Tom Daschle do that."

I'm just glad that this ended up in the Post so every Democrat in Washington knows that Ried, not Kerry, is in control. That is a good thing.

by blogswarm on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 11:54:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

What did Reid say? (3.00 / 1)

He said he'd done enough.  Obviously, Kerry didn't agree, thus the "more aggressive" and the "perpetual campaign."  

Fact is, it's very difficult to read that article and draw the conclusion that Kerry is "stupid, tone deaf or corrupt" on the basis of the characterization.

Support Regina Thomas, GA-12
by Drew on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 12:00:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What did Reid say? (none / 0)

I didn't say any of those things. I just pointed out how you pulled one line out of a story to remove the context while accusing Jerome of a "clever cut-and-past job".
by blogswarm on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 12:05:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Try to keep up. (none / 0)

I was quoting JollyBuddah.  You know, the poster to whom I initially responded?

Otherwise, I don't see how I've removed any necessary context.  Perhaps you'd like to explain?

Support Regina Thomas, GA-12
by Drew on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 12:13:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Try to keep up? (none / 0)

I was responding to this statement in the article:

Kerry is said to have told Reid he was missing the boat, "and needed a plan to prevent Bush from seizing the middle ground in the Social Security fight."

I don't know any way to interpret that aside from stupid or tone deaf. That comment is also quite a ways up thread to be expecting people to naturally make the connection. You might want to heed my warning about humility. Blue State Boy flamed out with his arrogance last night.

If you have a quibble over what Kerry actually said and what his position is, why it seems like it would be very easy for Kerry to set the record straight with a public statement. For my money, the article came pretty close to accusing Kerry of getting ready to pull a Lieberman and try to be the great centrist moderator between the Democratic party and Bush.

If that is wrong then Kerry needs to set the record straight. Don't blame Jerome, Chris, Bob or me if Kerry is not being accurately represented in the article.

by Gary Boatwright on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 02:50:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Humility? (none / 0)

There's the pot calling the kettle stainless steel.

If you have a quibble over what Kerry actually said and what his position is, why it seems like it would be very easy for Kerry to set the record straight with a public statement.

You sound like a Lyin' Swiftie, here, so I'll respond to you as I did to them: the fact that Kerry could call you a liar doesn't excuse the lie.

Or, to be more specific: the fact that Kerry could disabuse you of your deliberately uncharitable interpretation of his clearly vague remarks does not mean that your deliberately uncharitable interpretation is justified.

Support Regina Thomas, GA-12
by Drew on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 04:53:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Humility? (none / 0)

This wasn't even a direct quote from Kerry, it's second hand.

I get the fact people are angry with him for losing, but his voting record this year has been stellar:  Unlike so many others, he voted against Condi,  Alberto, and the Bankruptcy cloture.  

Why bash someone who is consistantly voting along progressive and just lines, now?  Because he may be proposing a Democratic plan on Social Security?  We don't even know if he is!!

by bellarose on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 07:03:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Humility? (none / 0)

Well aren't you a horse's ass. I think Kerry should have stepped forward much sooner and set the record straight on the swifties. I guess I shouldn't be surprised that he is continuing to rely on surrogates to speak on his behalf, because he doesn't have the balls to defend his own honor.

Maybe Kerry should ask Theresa if it would be OK to get the family jewels out of her jewelry box on the bedroom nightstand.

by Gary Boatwright on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 11:29:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Pot. Kettle. (none / 0)

I guess I shouldn't be suprised that Kerry's detractors on the left have the same standards as his detractors on the right: lie, then blame Kerry for not calling you a liar quickly enough.

Season with a little sexist commentary, and you're ready for Fox News.  Congrats!

Support Regina Thomas, GA-12
by Drew on Thu Mar 10, 2005 at 12:45:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

There you are you little ass wipe! (none / 0)

I've been waiting for you to show up again. I guess I shouldn't be surprised that a Kerry Kool-aid groupie would engage in hit and run character smears.

It looks like your spine is as limp as Kerry's is and you're even more lacking in character. Is it a congential defect that causes you to make baseless accusations or is it something you practice?

Run away and hide like the chicken shit little weasel that you are.

by Gary Boatwright on Thu Mar 10, 2005 at 01:17:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Yet more pot on kettle action. (none / 0)

I'd say my assement of your character has at least as much basis in reality as your repeated, random, bullshit assertions about what Kerry does and does not want the Democratic Party to do with respect to Social Security.  Likely more, given that I've based them off of what you've actually said, rather than a secondhand account of what you've said.

Keep it up, JB.  Work a little harder and you'll shoot right past Fox News and head into the Free Republic, where you and Jermoe Corsi can compare notes on the effectiveness of the "distort and repeat" tactics you seem to share.

Support Regina Thomas, GA-12
by Drew on Thu Mar 10, 2005 at 12:44:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Humility? (none / 0)

This is the third direct and unsolicited insult I've seen you write on this sight in the last 24 hours, JollyBuddah.

If you don't have an argument (and resorting to dumb insults proves you don't) then shut up and let people who have something to say into the conversation!  Your rants are tiresome and your "Thank God Kerry Lost"  post is worthy of a troll rating.

by bellarose on Thu Mar 10, 2005 at 10:04:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What did Reid say? (none / 0)

More aggressive meaning what? Kerry is probably clueless to the blogosphere even existing, he certainly showed that with his campaign. And perpetual campaign is probably more of a projection of his own intents, but they both point toward what of substance?  Kerry's nutty idea that Dems need to deliver a plan before Bush.
by Jerome Armstrong on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 12:10:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Is that Kerry's idea? (3.00 / 1)

I'm not sure.  Fact is, the article doesn't indicate that Kerry wants a Democratic alternative to Bush's Social Security privatization.  A "plan to prevent Bush from seizing the middle ground" need not be a policy alternative at all.

Otherwise, I'm confused.  The reason Democratic voters want to build a "more aggressive" and "perpetual" campaign is to help elect more Demcorats.  Yet you excoriate Kerry for wanting the same because it might . . . elect a Democrat?

Support Regina Thomas, GA-12
by Drew on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 01:00:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Eye On The Ball Folks! (3.00 / 1)

Jerome is reminding of us of what this is all about: how to respond to Bush's stupendous failure on his first-out-of-the-box major domestic agenda item.

What Kerry should be talking about is how to use this failure to beat the GOP over the head with for the next FOUR YEARS. If he was truly up to the task of realizing and doing that, then he might actually argue that we should break all the rules and give him another shot in 2008. But instead we get a powerful reminder of why he lost in 2004, and why everyone who lined up behind him for "pragmatic" "strategic" reasons got snookered.

by Paul Rosenberg on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 01:06:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Eye On The Ball Folks! (none / 0)

That's the ticket! If Kerry's position is not fairly represented, he should step forward and clarify the record. On the other hand, if the article accurately states his record, he should probably step away from the micro-phone and let real Democrats take the lead.

Social Security and the bankruptcy bill are both classic issues that should in no way divided the Democratic party. If Kerry and the DLC types, and that includes Hillary, want to step forward and act like real Democrats they can join the Bush bashing and bash the bankruptcy bill. I'm a little concerned about Hillary's silence on both of these bills.

I would dearly love to see some Democratic leadership from either Kerry or Hillary on Social Security and bankruptcy. Does anyone care to enlighten me on statements either one of them has made that I have overlooked?

by Gary Boatwright on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 02:56:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Follow the links. (none / 0)

Yeah, Reid really has the caucus together.  What was the vote on Rice--86-13?  And how many Democrats defected on Gonzales?  And, oh yeah, the cloture vote--tight Democratic caucus there, Harry.  That war room is smokin' hot.

God forbid Bush actually does put together a Social Security plan.  Harry's united front might come down to him and about 20 other Dems.

by rayspace on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 05:19:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Follow the links. (none / 0)

Great points.   Reid also sent Bush a letter saying this as quoted from the Post article linked above:

"Senate Minority Leader Harry M. Reid (D-Nev.) sent a letter to the White House, signed by all but three Democrats in the Senate, telling Bush they are prepared to work on a bipartisan solution to ensure Social Security's solvency that would include personal accounts outside of the retirement system. But they asked Bush to "unambiguously announce" his rejection of personal accounts in the system."

A bipartisan solution?  If Reid is taking the "no crisis" tact, why do we need a bipartisan solution??

 

by bellarose on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 07:48:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Follow the links. (none / 0)

If this is true,  then Kerry is exactly right.
by bellarose on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 01:46:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Follow the links. (none / 0)

If what is true?

Please clarify "this". And what Kerry is exactly right about.

by Gary Boatwright on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 02:57:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Follow the links. (3.00 / 1)

This:  "Kerry was unhappy with the posture of the Democrats and told Reid that they needed to be far more aggressive in fighting President Bush, needed to set up what amounted to a perpetual campaign and needed a plan to prevent Bush from seizing the middle ground in the Social Security fight."

I suppose we are reading the last part of this quote in two different ways.  I read it as meaning we - Dems- can't let Bush seize Social Security as his issue; we have to fight for it as if we are in a campaign.  

Obviously, others are reading it as a plea to change the Democratic position or present some new SS plan.  I just don't see it there, but I appreciate your comment above suggesting Kerry  step up and clarify his position.  

by bellarose on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 03:20:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Follow the links. (none / 0)

Yea, you can read it that way.... if you want to ignore the context-- that this memo that I've referred to is within which Kerry is thinking of his next move.
by Jerome Armstrong on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 03:43:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What context? (none / 0)

You say that this memo provides the context for the argument between Kerry and Reid, but I see no evidence beyond your assertion that this was, in fact, the context.  Why do you believe it is?
Support Regina Thomas, GA-12
by Drew on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 05:08:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Follow the links. (none / 0)

How do you know Kerry is drawing his ideas from this memo?
by Noisy Democrat on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 06:56:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Follow the links. (none / 0)

I read about the memo, written by Carville and Stan Greenberg.  Is Kerry's name on the memo also?  If so, I see no mention of it in the Post column you cite.
by bellarose on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 07:27:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Now, I won't agree with this (none / 0)

* > Bush

Kerry may have further ruined the Democratic party, or he may not have, had he won.

But Bush is ruining the country, and perhaps the entire planet if he manages to accidently (or on purpose) start World War III.

by Geotpf on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 03:07:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Damnit Jerome (none / 0)

Why won't you let the Democrats keep repeating past mistakes?
by blogswarm on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 11:26:48 AM EST

What plan? (none / 0)

Well, presumably, a plan to ensure that the Republican effort to privatize Social Security won't simply result in a political defeat, but an electoral one, too.

It's wrong for Demcrats to presume that if they prevent Bush from enacting his plan, they've won.  Bush may very well consider a political victory secondary.  This effort may simply be a way to motivate radical conservatives to go to the polls in 2006.  

Look at Bamboozlepalooza.  Like the 2004 campaign, it's not designed to motivate everyday Americans.  It's designed to motivate loyal Republicans.  I've no doubt that it's successful in that respect.  The question is, how can Democrats do the same with their base?

I don't think that an alternative on Social Security is the answer, given that the Democrats seem to have successfully shown the public that there is no crisis.  But something must be done to counter the effect Bush's plan is having among the Republican faithful.

Support Regina Thomas, GA-12
by Drew on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 11:36:08 AM EST

Re: What plan? (none / 0)

Drew read though this:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A18707-2005Mar8.html

But something must be done to counter the effect Bush's plan is having among the Republican faithful.

What plan?

by Jerome Armstrong on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 11:43:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Rhetoric, then. (none / 0)

Do you think the Republican base cares whether Bush has a written plan or not?  They've never cared that none of his other "plans" have been equally as ephemeral as his Social Security plan.

It's not about the plan.  It's about the pleasing noise that it allows Bush to generate.  Will it motivate the radical Republicans to go to the polls in 2006?  Given that the Republicans don't seem to have been substantially harmed by his rhetoric, the answer appears to be yes.

The question is how the Democrats plan to combat that.

Support Regina Thomas, GA-12
by Drew on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 11:55:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

By letting Republicans twist in the wind (none / 0)

There is absolutely no momentum to Bush's plan. If someone is sinking, throw them an anvil. Sound familiar?

That is the only strategy Democrats need. Anything else they do will only help Bush.

Has anyone given any thought to what will happen to the bankruptcy bill when it goes into the House/Senate conference committee? Could it get worse?

Or is it already so bad that the House will just have a straight up or down vote on the precise Senate bill?

by Gary Boatwright on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 12:04:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: By letting Republicans twist in the wind (none / 0)

I think you're missing the point. The core Republicans in that party don't care what Bush says or does, because they'll vote for him as long as he gives off the impression of standing up for their "values."

Drew is asking how we can motivate our own base in such a way.

by Covin on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 12:38:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Motivating Base Is Not The Problem (3.00 / 1)

As Chris Bowers showed in detail after the last election, the problem is that we need to GROW our base. We activated it just fine last time around. Growing it is a whole 'nother ball game.

And getting scared into framing a plan to solve a problem of their devising, when they don't even have a plan of their own does not sound like much of a strategy for expanding our base.

Much better would be to devise a plan that meets the problem as we define it, such as: Securing America's Future.

(1) Restore fiscal stability and resposibility to the federal budget. The Center for Budget and Policy Priorities has all kinds of ideas about this.

(2) Anticipate & respond to long-term threats to continued economic growth and security of the country as a whole.

(a) Invest in alternative energy, energy conservation and sustainable development (smart grwoth, smart building, the Apollo Project, etc.)

(b) Aggressively lead the way in fighting to reverse global warming. Also, fund expanded research on how to mitigate potential negative effects.

(c) Implement a system of national accounting to track externalized costs--such as the costs of pollution, resource depletion, etc.--which incur unpaid debts that will cause significant problems in the future. Ideally, this should lead to taxes and other regulatory measures aimed to curtail such defacto subsidies for harmful practices. But first we need to get a handle on the scope of the problem.

(d) On a still-broader level: Establish a permanent Department of the Future charged with doing long-term anticipatory studies of potential threats and opportunities beyond the planning horizon of normal business and government research and investment cycles.

(3) Create a transition path to a single-payer health care system as the only possible way to fix Medicare.  The path should be gradual enough to allow major commercial players to exit without catastrophic losses, but fast enough to prevent us from needlessly squandering another $1 trillion.

(4) Fix Social Security by:

(a) Raising caps on taxed income to the 90th percentile of all income.

(b) Reinstating estate and devoting taxes on estates over, say, $3.5 million to Social Security.

(c) Dealing with the rest of the phantom shortfall (a projection based on extremely pessimistic economic assumptions) via a periodic review process.  Best would be a regular review process on a 5-year cycle, to insulate against recurrent over-reaction to shorter-term pressures. Given that so-called "bankruptcy" date moved 12 years forward from 1996 to 2004, a review process such as this would not be flustered by highly imprecise longterm projections of doom. It would, instead, be able to reflect on various dimensions of change over a 5-year period since the last review, and respond with suitably measured adjustments.

This sort of response lets us define the sope of the problem and its relationship to other problems, as well as defining the character of the problem, and the kinds of possible solutions.  It's detailed enough to be a genuine proposal, but thematic enough that it can be debted in terms that ordinary people can connect with.

by Paul Rosenberg on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 02:47:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Motivating Base Is Not The Problem (none / 0)

That sounds suspiciously Democratic.
by Gary Boatwright on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 02:59:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Well, I'm A Suspicious Democrat, See? n/t (none / 0)


by Paul Rosenberg on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 03:53:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

minor changes (none / 0)

I like your plan.  I'm not sure that we need a Department of the future, perhaps another council along the lines of teh NSC.  Why not add something about taxing investment income?  The tax burden has shifted on to the middle and working classes because the texes on investment income has been cut (I believe Lakoff identifies this as one of the GOP's strategic initiatives.
by KDMfromPhila on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 04:10:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: minor changes (none / 0)

I'm all for taxing investment income. But the how and why of doing it right gets into wonkish details. Putting it forth at this level of generality just gives a nice target to attack (thus avoiding all else) without any benefit, so I'll leave it out.

The Department of the Future idea is not original--well, making it a department may be, but the general thrust of it is not. It comes from Barbara Marx Hubbard, who campaigned for Vice President as a Democrat in 1984, promoting the idea that the Vice President should be tasked with the responsibility of thinking about long-term challenges and opportunities. I don't think anyone else ever did what she did--run for Vice President as a way of promoting ideas. I think her ideas about the Vice Presidency were particular good, and if she was 20 years ahead of her time, then they should be ripe about now.  (BTW, she ran seriously and collected delegate support before the convention. Then she got to speak there--for about 5 minutes, I think. She explained that she'd be happy to withdraw and endorse Ferraro, in return for the chance to put her ideas out there. And she did.)

So, with that little backstory, I'll return to my point: it's about making a statement. You want the person who heads it to have visibility and clout. Hubbard's idea was one way to do it. Making it a cabinet-level department is another. Burying it just makes it clear that we don't take it seriously.  That's not the message to be sending.  We're the party of the future, dammit. And it's time we started acting that way again. The GOP is the party of feudalism. And we should do everything possible to make that distinction "perfectly clear", as one of their heros used to say.

by Paul Rosenberg on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 04:58:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Motivating Base Is Not The Problem (none / 0)

I wasn't agreeing with Drew, I was just explaining what he said. I'm quite aware that we got our base well-motivated in the election.
by Covin on Thu Mar 10, 2005 at 11:24:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I don't care about the core Republicans (none / 0)

Plus, the social conservatives, you know, the ones who voted for Bush because he hated gays more, don't like Bush's SS plan any more than we do.  The only people supporting it are rich Wall Street types who don't need Social Security when they retire and will get fat commissions from the sale of stocks from the private accounts.  However, you are right, to some people bashing gays is more important than not starving to death.

In any case, my point is, ignore the 35% of the population who will never vote for a Democrat.  We have to go after the 15% of the population who sometimes votes for a Democrat, but voted for Bush this time.  And they aren't pleased with Bush's SS plan either.

by Geotpf on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 03:15:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What plan? (none / 0)

Did anybody notice the link I posted on the open thread this morning about the L.A. Times Tom DeLay smackdown?. It was a lengthy investigative piece that started beneath the fold on the front page.

I've got to train a co-worker, so I'm gone for now.

by Gary Boatwright on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 01:04:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Plan, Whatever.... (3.00 / 1)

The Bush plan is to turn the word "plan" into an utterly meaningless term. And he's succeding brilliantly....
by Paul Rosenberg on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 01:09:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

what? (none / 0)

Why would we want to, "counter the effect Bush's plan is having among the Republican faithful"?

LA Times:

WASHINGTON -- President Bush's proposal to overhaul Social Security is falling flat across the country, to judge from recent polls, but public opinion is not his only problem. The whole idea splits Bush's party -- along fault lines he masterfully bridged during his first term in the White House.

A Social Security overhaul is the Holy Grail for the GOP's free-market advocates, but it is a low priority for social conservatives who care more about banning abortion and same-sex marriage. The costly initiative gives heartburn to the party's antideficit hawks. Even some of the Republicans' loyal business allies are lukewarm on Bush's effort to rewrite the program and allow workers to divert part of their Social Security payroll taxes into personal retirement accounts.

The divisions highlight potential weaknesses in the GOP coalition that Bush hopes to turn into an enduring governing majority by the time he leaves the White House.

On Capitol Hill, the open disagreement among Republicans over the issue -- and over the political strategy for dealing with it -- is a departure from the unity and discipline they showed on most major issues during Bush's first term.


by blogswarm on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 11:58:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: what? (none / 0)

On Capitol Hill, the open disagreement among Republicans over the issue -- and over the political strategy for dealing with it -- is a departure from the unity and discipline they showed on most major issues during Bush's first term.

I can't imagine why the Democrats would want to step in with a Democratic plan that would unify the Republican party in opposition.

Let's see. Bush and the Republicans are drowning in their own disagreement. The Democratic plan? Throw them a life preserver. Yeah, I guess that makes sense.

by Gary Boatwright on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 12:08:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Somehow, Carville Forgot The Whole Anvil Thing.... (3.00 / 2)

Confusing the life preserver with the anvil. It was an honest mistake that anyone in the Beltway could make.

Oh, wait! That was the problem we were trying to fix, wasn't it?

by Paul Rosenberg on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 01:11:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I've heard it before. (none / 0)

Republicans have supposedly been divided over other issues, too.  It hasn't hurt them yet.

You want to believe that Bush's Social Security rhetoric will hurt him?  You believe that.  Honestly, I don't think it will.

Bush can say anything and everything on an issue, and rather than think he's speaking with a forked tongue, Republicans think he's speaking the truth when he says what they want to hear.  The rest, they dismiss.  Thus when Bush speaks on Social Security, the Republicans who want it destroyed hear that he will destroy it.  The Republicans who want it reformed hear that he will reform it.  The Republicans who want it the same might be divided, but will they vote against him?  Will it be enough to counter the ones who are even more energized to vote for him?

For that reason, I don't think his Social Security rhetoric will hurt him a damn bit.  In fact, I suspect it will help him, because the faithful will look upon him as their savior, no matter what their position, and do what is necessary to protect him and his Republican cronies in 2006.

Support Regina Thomas, GA-12
by Drew on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 12:36:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

S.S. Gouging Will Hurt Repubs in 06' (3.00 / 1)

Hurting Bush shouldn't be the goal at this point. He's been elected for the last time. What the goal needs to be is to hang Republican Senators and Representatives with the label that their votes always go to their fatcat contributors at the expense of ordinary Americans.

For example, in 2006 Santorum will have to answer to his constituents on why he voted to gouge their retirements while voting to let credit card companies gouge them today.

Santorum voted to allow credit card rates over 30%!

Santorum voted against helping combat veterans with bankruptcy!

Santorum voted to give trillions of dollars of Social Security money to rich fatcats who contribute to his campaign!

That's how the Social Security and Bankruptcy fiascos can play out if Dems handle it correctly.

by Curt Matlock on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 01:15:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I've heard it before. (3.00 / 0)

Drew - the biggest reason it hasn't hurt the GOP always in the past is that Dems too often step in and 'save them' thinking we can 'help'...

The reality is Dems are the minority in every way shape and form - the only way we can shape the direction is in OPPOSITION... either be silent on an issue we agree on or ACTIVELY OPPOSE... by doing that you clarify and define our 'principle issues' in the mind of the public...

Then just prior to an election (say 8 months out) formulate a cohesive strategy and set of tactics built from the long months and maybe years in opposition that are based on those (by then) well understood principles...

Want to see a case study how to do it? Look no further than the GOP opposition to H Clinton & her healthcare initiative followed up a 18 months later by the succesful coup called "Contract For America"...

As far as privatization of SS...No minority plan before its time. Oppose first based on core principles, then after the opponents proposal has cratered - propose alternatives and ONLY then if the alternatives butress our core principles... and only then in context of an election campaign. It isn't time yet.

Our leaders don't get even the basics...

by dryfly on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 01:26:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I've heard it before. (none / 0)

Excellent summary.
by Jerome Armstrong on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 03:08:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: what? (none / 0)

Not only that, Social Security is profoundly popular in rural and small-town America, because it lifted people out of poverty.  

Bush's "base" isn't monolithic.  The SS privatization plan appeals to the worshipers of Mammon, but not the religious right.  It certainly doesn't resonate with the old.  

It is designed to appeal to people in their '20s and '30s who THINK that they can get a better "return" on their own than Social Security, because they think the "return" they  will get from SS is somehow equivalent to the T-bond rate.  It isn't.  A worker gets a replacement income from Social security that is only loosely corelated to what they paid in, and is based on formulas the gov't uses to supply average workers with a suitable replacement income.  The less you earned, the higher the percentage your SS benefit is relative to your final earnings.  It takes into account the inflation in wages over your wqorking life, and it goes up each year with inflation, something no private investment vehicle can do.  As a MINIMUM income level in retirement it is hard to beat, but it can never provide more than a minimum floor, because that would be too expensive.  

But the more young people understand that the cost of private accounts is a significant benefiot cut, the less they support this plan.  

It is bombing with all segments except the financial services industry and the rich, who want to see their stock portfolios swelled by all this new money coming in.

by Mimikatz on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 02:26:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

um (3.00 / 0)

There is no crisis. So there's no need for a plan. It is effectively going to the negotiating table on something that there can be no negotiating on. Trying to offer a plan only plays into Bush's hands.
by blueflorida on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 11:50:09 AM EST

Re: um (none / 0)

There is a coming crisis, but it isn;t the one Bush is talking about.  The "coming crisis" is a fall in the stock market because the current "recovery" is running out of steam, the consumer is being tapped out, and the federal gov't is losing the ability to keep borrowing.  Plus the Boomers will start to draw down their retirement savings as they age.  How to pump up stock proces?  Let's all get private accounts!  Take a read here at the new blog, http://cunningrealist.blogspot.com, for some corroboration.

It fits with the bankrupcy bill, too, which is needed because of looming defaults and bankruptcies.

One of Kerry's chief financial backers has always been--the financial industry!

by Mimikatz on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 02:01:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Let me get this straight (3.00 / 1)

Joe Biden and John Kerry both have been making noises about running for President on the Democratic ticket in 2008.

On what planet do they think they can win a Democratic primary?

by Gary Boatwright on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 11:59:00 AM EST

Re: Let me get this straight (none / 0)

On what planet did you get access to the conversation between Reid and Kerry?

On what planet did you learn how to persuade adults with mature discourse?

by Andmoreagain on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 12:24:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Let me get this straight (none / 0)

Why right here on planet MyDD. We like to enjoy ourselves once in a while. That occasionally includes taking potshots at Dems who deserve it. It may seem like a strange idea, but I put more faith in Jerome and Chris then I do in most sources of political information.

Strange as it may seem to newcomers here, they both have a very solid track record at MyDD.

by Gary Boatwright on Wed Mar 09, 2005 at 12:50:32 PM EST<