MyDD :: Will religious extremists attempt to "rescue" Terri Schiavo?

Will religious extremists attempt to "rescue" Terri Schiavo?

by janfrel, Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 03:39:48 PM EST

Think about where you'd have to be in life to be one of the dozen people standing or sitting right now in "three areas roped off by bright orange fencing" outside the Woodside Hospice, praying for a tube to be put back in Terri Schiavo. This is a kind of lunacy far stronger than the Falun Gong cultists who do exercises in front of official Chinese buildings in protest.

These people are fanatics, and I'm going to make a bet that there's going to be a last ditch effort to "save" her by one of them, or perhaps from a nut watching the Schiavo story on the networks who will fly in on one of Pat Robertson's Operation Rescue planes. It will be a sad little caper, but I'm telling you, these folks don't back down. Right now, they are channeling their feelings at the latest judge to smack down appeals to save her, Tampa District Judge James Whittemore, but at some point, they are going to focus on Terri, and that bright orange fencing ain't going to be much of a barrier. They'll certainly be famous in the media (for 15 minutes) and a hero for life to millions of these Christian extremists. If I were a fanatic in an evangelical's clothing, I'd do it.

I'm setting up a poll to find out who predicts someone will get a bit more "activist" with the Schiavo crisis. Update [2005-3-25 19:30:22 by janfrel]: -- Max Blumenthal points out that the first Schiavonatic was arrested last Saturday for " trying to bring Terri Schiavo water and then ignoring police orders." The guy was a former sherriff to boot.

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Extremists are called extremists for a reason (2.50 / 2)

They do extreme things.

In the grand scheme of things, it would be a tragic act, but less tragic than other things rightwing extremists have done.

Right wing extremists have blown up the Federal building in OK City. They bombed the Olympic Park at the Atlanta Olympics. They bomb African-American churches. They've bombed multiple abortion clinics and gunned down judges and doctors, etc.

There's a lot of victims of violent right-wing extremism. So, it's rational to assume there will be a lot more victims of right wing extremist violence before they stop acting out violently.

by afs on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 04:23:35 PM EST

Bullshit (3.00 / 1)

I am getting sick of all people on the side of the Schiavo family being painted as extremists.I am sure the bad guys are taking advantage of all of this. That does not matter to me in this case. I am an agnostic who endorses pulling the plug on Terri S. However, I don't think the husband's word should be automatically considered the final word and I have no problem with people trying to fight this order. I think when it comes to life and death, in the absence of any living will, it should come down to whoever is close enough in relations and is willing to take over the care, they should have some say.

What if Laci Peterson got similarly afflicted days before her murder and Scott announced against her parents objections a year later that he wants to pull the plug because Laci told her so. Now Michael is nowhere close to Scott Peterson in terms of mentality. After all, he did reject a million dollars. However, since we are considering rules, let's see how logical this law is anyway. These days, husbands come and go. Michael has moved on with a new partner and kids. He has had no kids with Terri. You only got your parents to worry about your fate your entire life. I would not favor parents over the husband necessarily. But when you got a tie, I would err on the side of life. This is not analogous to abortion where it's the woman's body. Terri's husband does not own Terri's body.

While I wish Terri's parents would move on, I fail to see why Michael can't just move on. I read somewhere that he won't be prevented from marrying legally again. He's got new kids. It's not like Terri is suffering consciously. And any diginity Terri might have wished for by dying quickly is out the window with all the press.

by Pravin on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 04:26:34 PM EST

Pointing out right wing extremism rates lame? (none / 0)

Disprove a single fact I said in the post.

by afs on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 05:16:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

what would Terri Schaivo want? (none / 0)

What if you assume Michael Schaivo really loved his wife?

Is it possible that they discussed life support?

If they did discuss it, is it likely she said she would not have wanted to be kept alive artificially if she had zero chance of recovery?

Rrrinnggg... Time to change the government.

by Carl Nyberg on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 05:42:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bullshit (none / 0)

Michael has "moved on" to a point. He's still in the picture,which I'm sure upsets some people who constantly cry about how marriage is being devalued and unappreciated. However,if one listens to such bloviators as Bill Bennett,only "certain marriages" are worth saving and good old Bill will decide whose marriage is worth saving and whose isn't.The facts are that Michael Schiavo was with his wife for years,going so far as to go to Mexico for radical treatments. This is a very sad story which is being played out on a world stage,and being used by disingenous people such as Randall Terry,Patrick Mahoney,the numerous "right-to-life" groups now using Terri as a forum to "ching-ching,let that cash register ring" (With kudos to People's Court Judge,Marilyn Milian,which is the ONLY court I'm aware that the Schindler's having filed a motion in,and since Milian is a Florida resident,she'd deny the motions too.) Tom Delay,Bill Frist,the Bush brothers,and media whores such as Limbaugh,Hannity,O'Reilly et al. I also must question the wisdom of the Schindler's. I know they are heartbroken over the events of the past few years,but talk about judicial activism. How many times will these people go to court just to get the same answers again and again---NO!! We will NOT reattach the tubes? I grieve for the Schindler's but enough is enough. One would hope that the lawyers on their side,after today would sit both of them down and face some very cold,hard facts that Terri is in PVS,she's not coming out of it,and the litigation needs to stop. Unless these people are truly "judge shopping",then the lawsuits need to stop,and let Terri pass away in a dignified manner.

by wise liberal on Fri Mar 25, 2005 at 06:21:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Moving on... (3.00 / 1)

Michael Schiavo is no longer the one pressing the removal of the feeding tube. After the court reached its verdict, its order determined the removal of the tube. Its finding that Terri wanted to die rather than be kept "alive" like this is what currently drives the schedule. He could, of course, drop the case (for a $1m or $10m reward, both of which he has apparently declined). But I'm not sure that it would change anything at this point - the court has ordered removal of the tube on Terri's determined wishes.

As for why Michael can't just move on and let the parents do what they will: if he really knows that Terri didn't want these efforts, why would he wish to disrespect that by allowing the parents to override her wishes?

by Phoenix Rising on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 05:03:58 PM EST

Here's the thing about... (3.00 / 1)

Pravin, Hugh, and Phoenix.. and the rest of the people out there who really are thinking hard and feeling hard about the life of Terri Schiavo: There are millions and millions and millions of people in America and the rest of the world suffering horrific painful deaths out there. It's as though they are unaware of the fact that they are obsessing about Schiavo because the media have brought it right under their noses. Pravin writes a response using another media-hyped story to make his/her point: "What if Laci Peterson got similarly afflicted days before her murder and Scott announced against her parents objections a year later that he wants to pull the plug because Laci told her so. Now Michael is nowhere close to Scott Peterson in terms of mentality." Astounding.

That's part of why I find it so strange that folks have flown to Tampa to pray for the life of a woman they don't know, why last Sunday millions of Americans had moral tales about Terri's life spun to them from pulpits across the country when they could have just as easily given this attention to some one three doors down from them living in a precarious state. It's crazy that they're so intent on taking this one woman's story so seriously when it's happening everywhere.

I'm going to adapt the arguments of a writer named John Dolan to finish this off. "The crimes of history are optional. We mix, match and discard according to taste and convenience. Only when suffering is unusually dramatic and interesting, and/or involves people to whom we feel particularly close, do most of us feel anything... In other words, the Christian-derived premise that there is some Enlightenment moral sense in each of us, which reacts with instinctive horror at any suffering, is simply nonsense... Take, for example, all the tens of millions of dead in the Japanese occupation of China. They are rarely invoked in the West, because we don't need them. The Japanese are thoroughly spent, neither a threat nor a bad example of anything we worry about at the moment. The Chinese are [currently] more of a worry [to Americans], making the invocation of their dead a dangerous concession." This Schiavo story is but a small cameo in an ongoing play titled, "Which of the billions of corpses clogging the earth will be dug up and flung at one's opponents?"

by janfrel on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 05:29:42 PM EST

Re: Here's the thing about... (none / 0)

Janfrel, As far as my comparison of Michael to Scott, it was only hypothetical. I do not intend to compare the two people as human beings. I was just making a point for those who would say husband is the final say in these matters. I don't know how the court can determine that Terri did want to die other than taking the word of Michael. Michael does probably have good intentions in ending her life even if one assumes Terri never expressed her opinion on this. Do we know in what context they discussed this?

As to why many people are reacting to this, I will agree there are the right wing fanatics who are using this politically while they conveniently ignore Bush's texan law where people who can't afford care will be taken off the feeding tubes. But you must understand why some people take an interest in this case. One and only one reason - the videos. She is like a cipher. Her half smile and blinking automatically makes one feel sorry for her and her parents regardless of the logic. Many doctors have talked about her brain state but the pictures themselves make it hard for people to grasp it. Hell, I have already laid out my opinions on these kind of issues and even I feel a tiny bit of doubt. The images create a visceral effect in the average person.

All I am saying is we should not succumb to dismissing everyone in favor of the parents by a broad implication(which I got from your original diary entry) as some right wing looney.

I will apply this case to me personally and try to make it clearer why I want Michael to move on. Let's say I made the same comment to a future spouse. But after I get into the state, my parents can't let go and it gets really bitter. You know what I would want? While I would not want my life wasting away tax money, if some rich group comes up and makes an offer as was done in the Terri S case, and my parents just can't move on, I would say "what the heck. I will be in a coma type state anyway, So i won't be suffering consciously. Let my parents do what they want and my wife should just move on with her life". Or vice versa. If my parents wanted to end my life, and my spouse couldn't move on and she got the funds to take care of me, no harm done.

by Pravin on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 05:51:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Here's the thing about... (none / 0)

It is not solely on the word of Michael Shaivo that all these judges have determined that Terri genuinely expressed her wishes not to be kept in such a state. The context in which the matter was discussed was at a funeral for a relative who had died a long and difficult death after being in a vegetative state. We do know the context in which this was discussed. Judges do not tend to just take people's "word for it."

Those opposed try to paint Michael as the biggest creep since Peterson, yet the very fact that he won't "just step aside" speaks volumes to his commitment to carrying out his wife's wishes. Should he "just step aside" it would confirm for everyone that he is a creep.

I respect Michael Schaivo immensely, should a similar situation befall me, I hope I could display as much courage, commitment, and compassion.

I feel very sorry for the parents, they can't abide the fact of their daughter's death (I have a young son, and it has made me much more sensitive to how powerfully parents feel for their children). The fifteen year prolonged ordeal has not helped them one bit. In many ways modern medicine has created a tragic evil--50 years ago Terri would simply have died, and the Schindler's bereavement could have begun. Their continued clinging to the otherwise dead body is pitiful and sad. Their bereavement delayed cannot be at all healthy.

by Bruce The Moose on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 01:07:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

There is zero evidence of conscious brainwaves (none / 0)

The EEGs show ZERO conscious brainwave activity,and have done so for 15 years. Schiavo's cerebral cortex has liquified. There is no cerebral cortex to have conscious brain activity. It disintegrated. All that's left in it's place is a sack full of spinal fluid.

You are lying, Hugh. Again.

by afs on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 05:34:38 PM EST

Re: Is Life "Extreme"? (none / 0)

Hugh, I wouldn't say there is plenty of evidence. All the doctors that i have seen interviewed do say there is no real brain activity. If there was plenty of evidence, I would be personally marching there myself. There have been attempts to get her to replicate the follow the hand or balloon trick and she only did it once in many tries indicating random movement.

However, with the many hours spent analyzing this issue, it would be nice if a network brought in a panel of doctors and asked them to do a commentary as a video rolls on explaining clearly to the viewers why Terri reacts the way she does at specific moments instead of a generic statement that it is all reflexes. That would be money better spent by the networks instead of wasting time hiring political commentators.

by Pravin on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 06:13:25 PM EST

Please (none / 0)

Define conscious.

All of the medical information I have seen tells me that this woman is not conscious in any meaningful medical sense. PVS is a state that misses all of the upper brain functions.

by freelunch on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 06:27:41 PM EST

if I were a betting man, I'd take outside odds (none / 0)

Some of you might have seen how Bo Gritz was arrested after gaining entry to the hospice. He had his song and dance about why he did it, but I don't think he gave the real reason. I think Gritz might have been probing the place.

If they were considering such an action, casing the joint would be the first move. That accomplished, Gritz would now have had a few days to create a plan and train his team.

Give me some outside odds, and I'll bet that this will get escalate to the point where guns are drawn.

Bob Brigham Blog

by Bob Brigham on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 06:39:36 PM EST

Rescuing Schiavo (none / 0)

I don't know about the other exrtremists,but I will wager a bob or two that Jeb Bush has something up his sleeve such as making Terri a ward of the state under his government. Can't we just send Florida back to the Spanish?

by wise liberal on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 07:52:47 PM EST

I'm waiting for... (none / 0)

...religious extremists to issue death threats against the judges, and then attempt to carry them out.

Hypocrisy and irony are concepts totally lost on these folks.

by Bruce The Moose on Thu Mar 24, 2005 at 12:31:47 AM EST

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