Krugman rips Lieberman

We're not the only ones who have real problems with Senator Lieberman, now Paul Krugman is joining the chorus of critics.  Krugman looks at a trend in the Social Security debate that has not gotten enough attention.  Incresingly, voters are beginning to  understand  the details of Bush's goals and that privatization represents an attack on the middle class.  Yet while  the Republicans are losing support for their position, their overall support remains as strong as before.

Personally that really disturbs me.  The SS debate is a real and unique opportunity to articulate a vision of American society.  If the Democrats are willing to explain their critique of the Bush philosophy in those terms, they could turn the debate into Stalingrad for the GOP.

But the Democrats aren't changing the public's perception of the Republicans. Why not?  Krugman:

One is that some Democrats, in the name of centrism, echo Republican talking points. The other is that claims to be defending average families ring hollow when you defer to corporate interests on votes that matter.

And he specifically mentions Joseph Lieberman as one of the Democrats who is repeating the Bush line about  the "bogus" yearly $ 600 billion cost of fixing  Social Security.

The result:  the Democrats losing tactical and moral ground in the debate:

At a time when the Democrats can say, without exaggeration, that their opponents are making a dishonest case for policies that will increase the risks facing families, Mr. Lieberman gave the administration cover by endorsing its fake numbers.

Krugman highlights another egregious failure by the Democrats to protect ordinary Americans, a failure we have been commenting on for a week:

Meanwhile, the party missed a big opportunity to make its case against increasing families' risk by acquiescing to the credit card industry's demand for harsher bankruptcy laws.

Lieberman stands out for Krugman because of his blatant hyprocrisy of the issue:

But many Democrats chose not to take that stand. And Mr. Lieberman was among them: his vote against the bill was an empty gesture. On the only vote that opponents of the bill had a chance of winning - a motion to cut off further discussion - he sided with the credit card companies. To be fair, so did 13 other Democrats. But none of the others tried to have it both ways.

.  

Here's my problem:  it's true that positions of policies stem from moral systems.  But for me, the war in Iraq, the use of torture and the attack on Social Security aren't just policy questions, they have become fundamental questions about the character of our political system and our national character. But what kind of moral position is he taking?  

He supports the efforts of the lawless rightwing fanatics

He supports the illegal invasion of Iraq.

He justifies the use of torture.

It is unacceptable that he can support the efforts of the lawless rightwing fanatics to transform the country into a one party state. Someone should be asking Lieberman (in public?) whether he still wants to be a Democrat


Display:


Joe Lieberman is not a Democrat (none / 0)

 I am a registered Democrat and Joe Lieberman is no Democrat.
by Gary Boatwright on Tue Mar 15, 2005 at 09:14:35 AM EST

Yes, But Clinton Teamed Up With Bush Sr. 4 Tsunami (none / 0)

relief, which is just as heinous as torture and you didn't condemn him!
by Paul Rosenberg on Tue Mar 15, 2005 at 09:51:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Not a Political Problem (none / 0)

Gotta say that ex-Presidents live by different rules and that (most importantly) helping the victims of the tsunami is not and should not be a partisan question at all.

Who cares if a Dem and a GOPer work together to help millions of people who don't have a thing in the world (including a home, a job, food, water, perhaps any of their family). I care that two people to whom the majority of America and the world will listen (they'll listen to one or the other of 'em) are taking on the challenge.

"into your illusion, i make my intrusion"
by fng on Tue Mar 15, 2005 at 11:09:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Less Is More (none / 0)

This was a snide reference on my part to a recent troll eruption on behalf of Joe Lieberman. No need to take a dagger and turn it into a dull blade.
by Paul Rosenberg on Tue Mar 15, 2005 at 11:50:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Less Is More (none / 0)

I don't think your dagger was well placed.

You are trying to lambast Joementum for crossing lines where Democrats should not be crossing lines on the President's fake crisis and the attempt to gut a social insurance program that keeps millions of senior citizens out of abject poverty by saying that we should also be bashing Clinton for crossing lines to work with Bush 43 to raise funds to help people out of abject poverty and despair brought on by a natural disaster.

I see it at a relatively dull blade at face value.

"into your illusion, i make my intrusion"
by fng on Tue Mar 15, 2005 at 12:00:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Compound Misunderstanding! (none / 0)

You don't understand! I was being sarcastic.

The blade was directed against a Lieberman defender who tried to use this false equivilence to attack liberals as hypocrites for attack Lieberman for.... <Sigh!> Now do understand what I mean by "dull blade"?

For context, see this diary and my numerous comments in it, especially this one.

by Paul Rosenberg on Tue Mar 15, 2005 at 12:48:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Compound Misunderstanding! (none / 0)

Finally got it. Sorry. Took an extra cup of coffee and three re-reads of the thread and the diary...
"into your illusion, i make my intrusion"
by fng on Tue Mar 15, 2005 at 01:34:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Ah, Yes, Coffee, Where's My Cup? (none / 0)

The universal antidote to pea brain, if not pork.
by Paul Rosenberg on Tue Mar 15, 2005 at 02:08:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

If not pork indeed... (none / 0)

That's why I support my local 4-H club by buying a pig raised by one of the kids each summer. Send it off to the butcher, call them a week later and tell them how thick I want my chops (2" please), how I want my hams (1 cured and sliced, 1 fresh and whole) and what kind of sausage I want (1/2 loose, 1/2 divided evenly among salt and pepper, sweet italian, and hot italian). Yes, I get the scrapple. No, I do not keep any organs, heads, or feet.

Mmmmmmmmmmm. Can't wait for that auction in July. In the mean time, I'll have to support my local coffee shop.

"into your illusion, i make my intrusion"
by fng on Tue Mar 15, 2005 at 02:22:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yes, But Clinton Teamed Up With Bush Sr. (none / 0)

Thanks for bringing that oversight to my attention Paul. Allow me rectify my error.

Damn those compassionate ex-Presidents! Damn them I say! What is America coming to when ex-Presidents from both parties actually demonstrate compassion and leadership on the biggest natural disaster of all time?

What's next I ask? Where will the curse of bi-partisan compassion spread? Where will this slippery slope end? Universal health care? Will they show up at a UCC church and endorse Extravagant Welcome?

Where will the horror of bi-partisanship stop if this trend is allowed to continue? We must nip this in the bud! Somebody should call Rush Limbaugh before it gets out of hand!

by Gary Boatwright on Tue Mar 15, 2005 at 11:58:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Bravo! (none / 0)

The masses of right-thinking patriotic Americans salute you for your courageous denunciation of the compassionate ex-President alliance, which is only the latest nefarious manifestation of the hydra-headed Illuminati/Anti-Christ/Friday-Night-Pinochle Conspiracy!
by Paul Rosenberg on Tue Mar 15, 2005 at 12:53:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

End the madness! (none / 0)

I have not yet begun to fight! I will wage eternal warfare until the last black helicopter has been destroyed. I will not stop until every UFO in existence has been captured and all illegal aliens are deported to their own solar system. This is a battle of galactic dimensions with inter-stellar consequences for us all!

Turn back the tide of compassionate ex-Presidents before we are all doomed! Doomed I say! The end is near!

by Gary Boatwright on Tue Mar 15, 2005 at 01:15:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Pledge drive for Joe's primary challenge (none / 0)

This is not a donation! This is a pledge drive only. You are being asked to go on record with your name and address to make a future pledge at Time to go Joe to support the best primary challenger we can find.
by Gary Boatwright on Tue Mar 15, 2005 at 01:20:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Joe Lieberman is a true liberal (3.00 / 3)

Craig- Fox News called, they want their faux liberal pundit back.

You think you're really "open-minded" and "a true liberal thinker"? Get over yourself. You have just as many theories that your resting your mind on, along with its greatly enflated sense of self. There is no reaon to be "open-minded" about the President's plans to destroy social security, and faux liberals like yourself are doing one thing and one thing only- stabbing middle-class Americans in the back.

Alex Urevick-Ackelsberg
making the words "sophist" dangerous again!

Future Majority / Young Philly Politics
by Alex Urevick on Tue Mar 15, 2005 at 10:22:26 AM EST

Re: Joe Lieberman is a true liberal (none / 0)

You really need to read up on heuristics and framing Ben.
Moral 1. Every word evokes a frame.

A frame is a conceptual structure used in thinking. The word elephant evokes a frame with an image of an elephant and certain knowledge: an elephant is a large animal (a mammal) with large floppy ears, a trunk that functions like both a nose and a hand, large stump-like legs, and so on.

Moral 2: Words defined within a frame evoke the frame.

The word trunk, as in the sentence "Sam picked up the peanut with his trunk," evokes the Elephant frame and suggests that "Sam" is the name of an elephant.

Moral 3: Negating a frame evokes the frame.

Moral 4: Evoking a frame reinforces that frame.

Every frame is realized in the brain by neural circuitry. Every time a neural circuit is activated, it is strengthened.

So lets see how this works with our Trolling "friend" Ben.

Take the President's plan for Social Security:

I considered it, and rejected it.

And in the process you reinforced his frame that there is a crisis. Good job! Way to help the man out in his time of trouble! Benedict Arnold would be proud of you.

Watch your backs kids, we have a traitor in our midst.

Future Majority / Young Philly Politics
by Alex Urevick on Tue Mar 15, 2005 at 11:14:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I Don't Know Why I Bother With CF, But... (none / 0)

I gave you a "3" for your tag line, probably the best response to him I've seen so far.
by Paul Rosenberg on Tue Mar 15, 2005 at 12:26:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I double your 3 and (none / 0)

raise you a BRAVO! for Alex's tagline.
by Gary Boatwright on Tue Mar 15, 2005 at 01:17:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

If it's CF, then it's time for... (3.00 / 1)

Troll Recipes.

"Sweet and Sour Pork
Source :  
ReadyIn :  30 min  
Servings :  4  

Ingredients :  
 1 lb pork  
 1 tsp pepper  
 1 egg  
 1 tbsp soy sauce  
 3 tbsp cornstarch  
 0.3 cup vinegar  
 0.3 cup sugar  
 0.3 cup water  
 2.5 tbsp ketchup  
 1 tsp salt  
 1 cup oil  
 2.5 tbsp cornstarch  
 1 cup pineapple chunks  
 3 tbsp water  
Directions :  
 Combine pork, pepper, egg, soy sauce and cornstarch. Fry with oil. Combine vinegar, sugar, water, ketchup and salt. Bring to a boil. Dissolve remaining cornstarch in water and pour into sauce til thick and translucent. Add pineapple til warm. Pour over fried pork."  

http://troll.sentinelchicken.org/recipe/show_recipe.php?rid=11

by afs on Tue Mar 15, 2005 at 10:33:32 AM EST

Re: If it's CF, then it's time for... (none / 0)

Ahhh, Pork Source. I love Pork Source.

heh-heh...

"into your illusion, i make my intrusion"
by fng on Tue Mar 15, 2005 at 11:10:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If it's CF, then it's time for... (none / 0)

This is all very complicated. I thought it was just pork and pea-brains.
by Paul Rosenberg on Tue Mar 15, 2005 at 12:27:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

ARRRRGGHHHH! The weasel is here too! (none / 0)

Go away Craig Farmer. You have your own blog. Please contain your toxic opinions where they won't damage the civil political discourse of rational people.

Go away and don't come back until you locate your brain, your moral compass and your humanity.

by Gary Boatwright on Tue Mar 15, 2005 at 12:00:29 PM EST

First Rhinoceri, Then Weasels! (none / 0)

What have you got against our mamalian bretheran that you keep insulting them so? If you keep this up, you may drive me into the arms of PETA!
by Paul Rosenberg on Tue Mar 15, 2005 at 12:30:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: First Rhinoceri, Then Weasels! (none / 0)

I can't control myself. It's a pavlovian reflex to congenital stupidity. I've consulted the best psychologists in Orange County and there is no cure for my condition. When I am really angry the only relief is killing one of those damned whales. It gets very messy.

There was the time when my inner child wouldn't shut up. I reached in and grabbed that sucker by his heel, whirled him around in the air and smashed his little head against the wall. Hasn't bothered me since.

by Gary Boatwright on Tue Mar 15, 2005 at 01:31:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: First Rhinoceri, Then Weasels! (none / 0)

Ahh, tough love for the inner child. Looks like you have done a fine job Jolly. Keep up the good work.
by dicta on Tue Mar 15, 2005 at 01:42:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: First Rhinoceri, Then Weasels! (none / 0)

The Dr. Dobson theory of parenting is my inner child bible.
by Gary Boatwright on Tue Mar 15, 2005 at 01:57:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: First Rhinoceri, Then Weasels! (none / 0)

It does no good, however, to thump rhinoceri with your inner child's Bible, though tossing it at weasels just might work, provided they're at close range.  Such are the limits of Scripture, alas!
by Paul Rosenberg on Tue Mar 15, 2005 at 02:11:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

U Wouldn't Know A Liberal If One Bit U In the Ass! (none / 0)

As in fact you have been bitten, on several occasions here on MyDD.  

As I've demonstrated long ago, your definition of liberalism has nothing to do with its traditional meaning and significance.  Sure, liberals are logically- and empirically-minded. But that only tells us that the meet the minimal standards for political sanity.

Your idea of politics reeks of early latency--a good 3-4 years before the onset of pre-pubescent libertarianism.  For example, the claim that liberals use their basic sanity to "do what's right" as opposed to "conservatives both of the left or right [who] have a preconceived view or theory that they apply to the situation."

This assumes that (1) there is such a thing as "what's right" independent of any preconceived view  ("black is black" and "black is white" are both equally suspect preconceived views) and (2) preconceived views prevent us from using logic or evidence.  

But the entire history of science proves this is wrong. Not just wrong, but stupid. The whole point of science is not just to ascertain individual facts, to find out "what's right," but to discover the most comprehensive patterns of explanation--the most compelling "preconceived view or theory" possible "that they apply to" ALL situations.  Of course these still remain subject to revision, if extraordinary new evidence shows the need. But you need such systemic preconceptions in order to perceive their shortcomings, and then come up with better ones.

Now, conservatives come along and they pretend that creationism--without any evidence, methodology, standards or theory--is science. By your logic, evolutionary biologists and creationists are both "conservatives of the left and right" while the true liberal takes 30 years off from the fight for justice to figure out which is right. (If you toss out preceonceptions, 30 years is a very short time to be able to settle this.)

Like I said, s-t-u-p-i-d!

I used to think that you were a troll. But now I'm starting to think you're too stupid to be a troll. Is that possible? Inquiring minds want to know!

by Paul Rosenberg on Tue Mar 15, 2005 at 12:22:54 PM EST


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