MyDD :: Kerry Won: 900 Pages of Evidence Filed re: OH Fraud '04

Kerry Won: 900 Pages of Evidence Filed re: OH Fraud '04

by JamBoi, Fri Feb 18, 2005 at 01:54:04 AM EST

The wheels of justice may turn slowly, but turn they do. Fav quote: "...The attorneys in this case had reason to believe that the election results did not reflect the will of the electorate."

Departments: Election 2004

Representative Conyers and others file amicus brief in Ohio Supreme Court
by Dena Graziano
February 17, 2005

Today, Congressman John Conyers, Jr., Ranking Member of the House Judiciary Committee, will be filing an amicus brief in the Ohio Supreme Court with the support of Senator Russ Feingold and 17 other members of the House of Representatives recommending that the Court not sanction the attorneys who brought Ohio election contest in Moss v. Bush (no.04- 2088). Mr. Conyers offered the following statement:

"The attorneys in this case had reason to believe that the election results did not reflect the will of the electorate. In good faith, they brought a case based not only on statistical probability but the depositions and affidavits of computer experts, statisticians, and election volunteers. In only a couple months, these attorneys have amassed over 900 pages of evidence.

"While we take no opinion on the underlying case, we firmly support the right of citizens to challenge elections results in court when they have a good faith basis to do so. Truly, Secretary Blackwell's attempt to sanction these attorneys is meant to send a message to anyone who dare challenge his questionable election administration. For our democracy to work properly, we can't allow this sort of intimidation by state officials."

Original press release House Judiciary Democrats Press Release

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Permalink :: 22 Comments :: Post a Comment

I don't mean to sound like an a-hole (3.00 / 1)

But it really doesn't matter. Once you're sworn in as President the only way you can be removed is to be impeached. Then Dick Cheney would be sworn in as President. And the only way that can happen is if their was a conspiracy AND Bush knew about it.

by zt155 on Fri Feb 18, 2005 at 02:01:59 AM EST

Re: I don't mean to sound like an a-hole (none / 0)

In a technical sense you're are absolutely right. In a broader sense of course it matters that we figure out what really happened, jail the traitors and impeach the commander-in-thief.

JamBoi

Just another Jesus followin' Green for Constitutional Democracy. :-)
dailyJam.blogspot.com

by JamBoi on Fri Feb 18, 2005 at 02:05:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Impeachment (1.00 / 1)

Find out what happened? Sure. Jail and Impeach? Whatever. This is where I really tune out to the fraud crusaders. Jail them? Um, since when do we control the power to do that? Last time I checked Republicans controlled everything. Impeach them? See my previous comment.

You Do Not Want Election Reform.

by Chris Bowers on Fri Feb 18, 2005 at 02:16:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Impeachment (none / 0)

Yes, we do want election reform and the fainthearted faction need not apply. Yes, we'll have to find and persuade the reasonable moderates and conservatives vs. the NeoCons and other NeoFascists. Its going to be a tough job obviously so we all need to roll up our sleeves and get to work, you too Chris!

JamBoi

Just another Jesus followin' Green for Constitutional Democracy. :-)
dailyJam.blogspot.com

by JamBoi on Fri Feb 18, 2005 at 02:22:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

The Fainthearted Faction needs to step aside, (none / 0)

the Fiercehearted Faction will take care of this.

JamBoi

Just another Jesus followin' Green for Constitutional Democracy. :-)
dailyJam.blogspot.com

by JamBoi on Fri Feb 18, 2005 at 02:24:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Impeachment (1.00 / 1)

Did you even read the article I linked?

Also, you sem to be missing a crucial element to your "difficult job." Anything Congress approves could be vetoed by the same guy you are accusing of having stolen the eleciton. Your "fierce hearted faction," is semi-clever rhetoric, but good luck finding 67 Senate votes, and 290 House votes for any progressive reform you propose.

Roll up your sleeves all you want, it ain't happening.

by Chris Bowers on Fri Feb 18, 2005 at 02:30:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Impeachment (2.00 / 1)

It ain't happening with this Congress and this PResident. For now, it can onyl happen at the state level. Even then, only certain states. Failing the states, it has to be the counties.

by Chris Bowers on Fri Feb 18, 2005 at 02:30:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Impeachment (none / 0)

It can happen and yes we will have to work very hard to make it happen because of the Republican majority. Yes, I'd already read the defeatist diary. Step aside oh ye of faintheart, the fiercehearted will take it from here.

JamBoi

Just another Jesus followin' Green for Constitutional Democracy. :-)
dailyJam.blogspot.com

by JamBoi on Fri Feb 18, 2005 at 02:36:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Impeachment (none / 0)

Oh, and that 900 pages of evidence... that's the work the fiercehearted faction has been doing while the fainthearted have been rolling over to the NeoFascists.

Don't forget that its not just the fraudulent election: all these scandals are coming together to bring * down -> impeachment.

JamBoi

Just another Jesus followin' Green for Constitutional Democracy. :-)
dailyJam.blogspot.com

by JamBoi on Fri Feb 18, 2005 at 02:42:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Impeachment (1.00 / 1)

So I've been rolling over to the Neo facists, eh? Those are fighting words here on the blogopshere. It should be perfectly obvious that we are working full time on a wide variety of projects that are anyhting but rolling over.

And how much of that 900 pages did you comile, oh activst God JamBoi? Did you even add a comma? What exactly have you contributed to the fierce eharted faction except come here and piss people like me off? Its three int he mornign and I'm working ont his, just like I was at 9am earlier today and 9am tomorrow.

You are as self-important and self-righteous as you seem to incapable of building coaltions.

by Chris Bowers on Fri Feb 18, 2005 at 02:53:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Impeachment (none / 0)

Actually I and many other bloggers absolutely had a direct input to Conyers. No thanks to the fainthearted faction.

JamBoi

Just another Jesus followin' Green for Constitutional Democracy. :-)
dailyJam.blogspot.com

by JamBoi on Fri Feb 18, 2005 at 03:17:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Your good work vs. your defeatism (none / 0)

Chris its obvious that you've done and continue to do loads of excellent work on behalf of progress. No complaints here on that. What I do complain about is when you waste your time and others' by pissing on the work of those of us working just as hard as you are with equally valid activism, if with a slightly different emphasis. I'm not just speaking for myself, but all of the Electoral Justice activists when I request that you apply the principal that my Grandma taught her family: "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all."

It is you that have gone out of your way to come by to my diaries (and not just mine) and repeatedly left disparaging comments apparently to try to discourage Electoral Justice activists. You have your good work and we have ours, so why not just leave us be to do our work and we do the same for you? Sounds like a plan to me.

JamBoi

Just another Jesus followin' Green for Constitutional Democracy. :-)
dailyJam.blogspot.com

by JamBoi on Fri Feb 18, 2005 at 04:24:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Your good work vs. your defeatism (1.00 / 1)

Look, I said it was a worthy cause to find out what happened, and that it should be worked for at a statewide and county-wide level. I did argue that the loftier goals of impeachment over this matter were unattainable. If claiming that impeaching Bush over this matter is unattainable qualifies as pissing on your work, I suggest you get thicker skin.

You, however, called me a member of the fainthearted faction who was rolling over to the Neofacists. If you want some advice, take your grandmother's. You are behaving extremely poorly on this matter. You don't come to my blog, which is a partisan Democratic blog, and tell me that I am a member of the fainthearted faction who is rolling over to the neo-facists while you promote the Green Party. You especially don't do this because I said your goals of impeachment and jailing were unattainable. Your skills, both related to self-examination and coalition building, leave much to be desired.

Telling someone they are rolling over to the neo-facists and then claiming you repsect their work reminds me a lot of conservatives constantly calling Dems traitors and then claiming they never did so. I made it very clear in my writing that I support election reform and the efforts to find out what happened, but that I beleive positive reform needs to take place at the state and county levels. If that isn't good enough for you, than bring it somewhere else. It also is starting to seem pretty clear to me that you were banned from DU for good reason.

by Chris Bowers on Fri Feb 18, 2005 at 12:48:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Your good work vs. your defeatism (none / 0)

We need only go by another blog entry of mine to observe a clear "pissing on" event by you Chris. No that's not lack of thick skin on my part although the way you're reacting to my asking you to stick to your own knitting might qualify as thin skin on your part.

CB, you are obviously entirely ignorant of the DU Tombstoning, so don't even go there.

Just another Jesus followin' Green for Constitutional Democracy. :-)
dailyJam.blogspot.com

by JamBoi on Wed Feb 23, 2005 at 08:51:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Impeachment (2.00 / 1)

Yes!!! Just call yourself fiercehearted an instantly you have the twnety-two Republican Senators and 87 Republican house mebers all lined up with every single Democrat and indepdent in Congress to pass prefectly progressive legislation, like you and your fiercehearts have succeeded in doing so many times over the past two years.

Why stop there? If having a crappy Congress is no barrier to positive legislation, let's pass single-payer helath care with this congress! Let's pass privat-sector card check! Let's legalize gay marriage nationwide! LEt's repal the Medicare bill! Let's repeal No Child LEft behind! If we call ourselves fiercehearted, that makes us far more effective than full tiem activsts! ITs calling us fierce hearted that will do the trick!

I especially believe that you can build a supermajority coalition in a conservative dominated Congress because you are such a dman agreeable person. It only took you two comments to start insulting me on my own blog! I mean, I don't work full time as politcal activist or anything. I must not be trying hard neough because I think your goals are unreasonable.

You will certainly achieve your goals. I can see ntohing stopping you.

by Chris Bowers on Fri Feb 18, 2005 at 02:48:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Impeachment (none / 0)

Well Chris, its like this: as Lee Iococa said. "Lead, follow or get out of the way." What I see you doing is trying to discourage people from doing the right thing when yes, we already know its going to be an extremely difficult task.

On the bright side personally I don't think that even the Repubs will stand indefinitely for the accummulating things like ArmorGate, No-WMDs, IraquiMire/IraquiNam, Condi-Lies-A-Lot Rice, US coverup of US involvement in 9/11, Fraud '04, Bush's potential drug problem, GannonGate, etc, etc, etc. These things are accummulating and the Repubs don't like the U.S. to be shamed by an incompetent President any more than the Dems.

So my personality like it or hate it in the end is probably actually not going to be the determining factor for impeachment of *. It would certainly be a lot easier if diplomatic types like yourself were part of the effort instead of detracting from it though.

JamBoi

Just another Jesus followin' Green for Constitutional Democracy. :-)
dailyJam.blogspot.com

by JamBoi on Fri Feb 18, 2005 at 03:15:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Impeachment (none / 0)

Also, Chris its like this: high integrity people like we all aspire to being don't do things because they are easy or hard, but because they are the right things to do. In a nutshell the Fainthearted Faction are the accommodationists who hope that the Repubs will throw some bones and provide some scrapes to them if they bow and scrape enough. The fact is though that Conyers, Kerry, Boxer, Reid, Dean, Pelosi are all coming to realize there will be NO scraps coming from the NeoFascists' table without a dogfight. So thankfully they are finding their cojones and fighting back finally. See my blog:

Flash! Dems Grow Cojones! United to Oppose BuschCo's Initiatives where we could first see this happening thankfully. They are joining and indeed leading the Fiercehearted Faction!

JamBoi

Just another Jesus followin' Green for Constitutional Democracy. :-)
dailyJam.blogspot.com

by JamBoi on Fri Feb 18, 2005 at 03:37:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Impeachment (2.00 / 1)

> I don't think that even the Repubs will stand indefinitely for the accummulating things like

They've happily stood for all that and more for four years. Why on earth would they stop now? The Republicans care about one thing: being in power. Bush could sodomize the Olson Twins on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial while wiping his ass with pages ripped out of the Bible - the Republicans would never make a move to impeach him. They'd get Fox News to convince people that the Mary-Kate was a terrorist and Ashley was "asking for it," and the Bible was really a copy of Michael Moore's latest book. People in the red states would be cheering him on by week's end.

What exactly do you think is going to happen, if this court case succeeds? Remember when the NAACP took Katherine Harris to court, it was shown that she deliberately disenfranchised voters, and the 2000 election was overturned? No? That's because it didn't happen!

I'm not trying to be defeatist here - I'm trying to be realistic. You talk about rolling over to the fascists - the biggest way we've been rolling over is sitting back and assuming that the system works, and that wrongdoing will eventually be punished.

The system is dead. Bush, Cheney and Rove destroyed the system. There are no checks, no balances, and justice has been buried under a very expensive curtain. As much as I'd like to think we live in a world where the guilty are always punished, and wrongs are always righted, we don't. And we can't just assume that if Bush does enough bad stuff, and we have enough proof, people in this country will wake up and turn against him. He already let 9/11 happen, lied his way into war in Iraq, didn't go after Osama and Al Qaeda, and ushered in the worst economy since the Depression. If that didn't change people's minds, what exactly is going to do the trick, in your opinion?

"It's not enough to say you'll be ready from Day One - you have to be right from Day One."

by schroeder on Fri Feb 18, 2005 at 10:17:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Impeachment (3.00 / 1)

Impeachment? Okay, let's say we actually manage to get bush AND Cheney out of office,,, Then we get President Hastert ~shudder~.

by ohnofile on Fri Feb 18, 2005 at 08:25:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Impeachment (none / 0)

Yes, that's a problem (shudder). By that time, we'll have a large portion of the population on our side though and that will help!

Just another Jesus followin' Green for Constitutional Democracy. :-)
dailyJam.blogspot.com

by JamBoi on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 09:25:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I don't mean to sound like an a-hole (3.00 / 1)

The point here is not to challenge the election. The point is to keep these attorneys from getting sanctioned for having the "audacity" to challenge the election in court. These attorneys acted in good faith and should not be penalized merely because they were using a means that the law allows.

Morever, in a bigger sense, it is vitally important that we discover whether any large scale fraud and disenfranchisement occured. On a small scale, it certainly did, as it does in most elections. But, did it occur on a larger scale?

by hopeful on Fri Feb 18, 2005 at 07:22:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Now the legal trench warfare begins! (none / 0)

Just another Jesus followin' Green for Constitutional Democracy. :-)
dailyJam.blogspot.com

by JamBoi on Fri Feb 18, 2005 at 04:14:32 AM EST

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