Two-Faced McCain Good at Political Theater

This is an awful piece by Peter Baker of the Washington Post.  He imputes a lot of drama to a supposed fight among Republicans about torture.  But as RichardG notes, the McCain amendment doesn't prevent torture.  Ian Welsh pointed this last month.  

Can't torture them, but as long as DOD rules are followed we can lock 'em up forever with no civilian judicial review. And who determines DOD rules? Rumsfeld.

Brilliant. Just Brilliant.

McCain is playing people. He voted for the most fundamental violation of rights possible. If you don't have habeas corpus, you have nothing. "We must not torture them once we throw them in our gulags." Anyone who takes him as a hero because he proposes an amendment that bans torture, while voting against habeas corpus for those prisoners at the same time, is simply a sucker who just got played.

Scott Shields had it right: Kabuki Theater.  Peter Baker's article, by contrast, is the usual movie review of the personalities involved, including that oh so valiant maverick John McCain who pushes back on the WH to ban torture, except not really.  Two-faced.



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Typical DC Article About McCain (3.00 / 1)

Nice post Matt.  McCain courts the press constantly and they love him b/c he periodically gives them a well timed supposedly off the cuff soundbite.  I am no fan but McCain is smart enough to pick a few issues to make himself appear like a maverick including campaign finance reform (only after being one of the Keating 5), tobacco lawsuits and now torture.  

As many have noted in posts here he is no moderate as his voting record is very much in the mainstream of conservative Repubs something the press rarely points out.

by John Mills on Fri Dec 16, 2005 at 11:23:31 AM EST

What is and is not torture (3.00 / 1)

That is still the real question.  Apparently there is another bill going through Congress that will allow information gathered from torture by other nations to be used in tribunals here.  

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10485561/site/newsweek/

So I assume that means both present and future "detainees".  If we don't torture and according to Rice we don't give detainees to other nations to torture, then what is the purpose of this new bill?  What are all the flights about and why were detainees moved from the European prisons to Africa as the news broke about the secret prisons?  If we aren't doing it to facilitate torture then why the secrecy.  I believe McCain doesn't want torture to be our practice. I know he understands what it will mean to our prisoners of war in the future.  We have one now, or at least could, no news as to his final status of alive or dead to my knowledge.  He is naive at best to not address this issue of clearly defining torture.
He does need to recognize the idea of catch and hold with no hope of release is itself torture to the minds of those that have lost their freedom with no real hope of fighting it in a court of law, seeing the light of day, or communicating with the outside world...and who are in fact innocent of the supposed crimes they are accused )or not accused as the case may be)

Regardless, this anti-torture bill will do nothing so long as they refuse to define what is torture.  Water boarding is torture for instance (not to them).  I don't care if the guy comes out of it without a scratch.  He shouldn't have to endure it.  Imagine the minds of those that give out such treatment, how they must exist in our world when they are done.  It will not reveal meaningful information anymore than torture that might involve loss of life or limb.  We should ask ourselves if we want our soldiers to endure such treatment day in and day out in future conflicts.  Their bodies may come back whole but their minds are just as important.  I would say allow torture in the case of a ticking time bomb scenario.  The only problem is this administration will assume all cases involve a ticking time bomb.  They have no conscience.

"So this is how liberty dies...to thunderous applause." Padme, Star Wars Episode III
by jrflorida on Fri Dec 16, 2005 at 11:24:29 AM EST

Also... (3.00 / 1)

We should definitely pass a law requiring free and fair elections.

And we certainly need a law that says we are to be allowed to sleep under blue blankets.

Etc.

(I have always told people that the so-called "social contract" is merely an illusion promoted by slick lawyers. But did they listen?)

There is no justice -- just us.

by blues on Fri Dec 16, 2005 at 11:39:09 AM EST

Re: Also... (3.00 / 1)

True, it shouldnt be necessary to ban torture or define it.  But for now, dealing with the type of people we are having to deal with in power, expecting them to pass such laws or make such definitions is equivalent to making them write sentences as punishment for their past deads.  Clearly they don't abide by the laws we have on the books now, new ones will make no difference.  But the squirming and the embarrassment of passing such laws, for them, is beneficial.  Maybe it will cast some light on them for voters to make the real changes necessary to fix the problem.  It may serve to catch them in a political trap if not a legal one.  I really wonder why Cheney protests so much if he has no problem with ignoring laws now.  It may be they are worried that underlings will start to revolt and refuse orders.
"So this is how liberty dies...to thunderous applause." Padme, Star Wars Episode III
by jrflorida on Fri Dec 16, 2005 at 12:10:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Also... (none / 0)

Yes, jrflorida, your points are all right on the bull's eye.

Maybe some great new freedom manifesto is now overdue. Or maybe a wacked-out parody of some kind of an absurdly compromised great new freedom manifesto.

LISTEN LITTLE FRAT HOUSE TRAMP!

by blues on Fri Dec 16, 2005 at 07:09:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Evil, Racist, Two-faced (3.00 / 1)

PIck your favorite perjorative. My McCain Is Evil diary was favorably received by a few in March, but the theme was not picked up. The M$M loves simple black and white dichotomies, because they don't require any thought, work or analysis. In addition to all other criticism, the M$M is simple minded.

As I said then:

I'm playing their game by their tactics and using their choice of weapons. If Senator McCain has a problem with that, he needs to let everybody know.

Pesonally, the only problem I have with Howard Dean is that his opinion of Republicans and the Republican party is way too generous.

If McCain has a problem with this type of language, he needs to get on the "straight talk express" and say so.

It's not an original or novel idea, but it is not widespread enough and the DLC Dems refuse to play by the right wing dominated M$M rules. The longer you play nice with a bully, the longer he's going to keep picking on you.

That applies to DLC Dems as well as GOPERS. Progressives are equally attacked and demonized by both of them. The DLC and Al From are following Marshall Whitman's lead and attacking the base of the Democratic Party.

No more Mister Niceguy.

by Gary Boatwright on Fri Dec 16, 2005 at 12:19:28 PM EST

How did McCain vote on ending debate? (3.00 / 1)

It will be interesting to see how McCain voted on the motion to end debate on The Patriot Act.
by Gary Boatwright on Fri Dec 16, 2005 at 12:28:05 PM EST

The good news for dems: (3.00 / 1)

The "McCain Reaches Deal with White House" story only stayed on the front pages of CNN and some of the other news stations for about an hour or two, before the Zarqawi capture-and-release story broke.
For 3 months of setup-time, it sure didn't get much play.
by Kalil on Fri Dec 16, 2005 at 01:16:37 PM EST

Tom Davis (none / 0)

Oh yea, I live in Northern Virginia, although I'm not in Tom Davis's district.

And boy is he running away from his party.  Every day there is some quote from Tommie in the Washington Post criticizing his party.  Plus townhall meetings, letters to constituents.

He either feels the heat or is trying to raise his profile for an '08 run.

by notime4lies on Mon Dec 19, 2005 at 01:22:01 AM EST


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