Cheney Attacks, Still No Victory Strategy

While I think repeating oneself can get annoying, there are certain points I don't mind belaboring in my posts here. One of them has been the Republicans' indifference to those in need as evidenced by their unconscionable budget cuts. Another is the distinct contrast in visions of the country being offered by the two parties. Let me add a third to the list. The supporters of the current policy in Iraq must define what it means to "win" that war.

This morning, Dick Cheney gave a speech reiterating a number of the same talking points advocating a 'stay the course' policy in Iraq. It was pretty much the same old, same old, but it was notable for the fact that Cheney specifically called Congressman John Murtha "a good man, a Marine, a patriot." Undoubtedly, the administration is in Mean Jean damage control mode.

One thing Cheney did not do was tell us anything new about the administration's goals for Iraq. There was a lot of talk about the terrorists winning should we leave, but completely absent was any talk about us winning should we stay.

Cheney again said that "withdrawal would be a victory for terrorists" and an "invitation to further violence."

"It is a dangerous illusion that another retreat by the civilized world would satisfy the appetite of terrorists .. We will not retreat in the face of adversity."
. . .
"The enemy hears a big debate in the United States, and they have to wonder: 'Maybe all we have to do is wait and we'll win. We can't win militarily.' They know that. The battle is here in the United States," Rumsfeld said on "Fox News Sunday."

There's a lot of talk about "victory" and "winning" in there, from both Cheney and Rumsfeld. But once again, neither of them are talking about our side. There is absolutely no indication as to how the administration would define an American win.

The closest thing to a goal I've heard the administration express is that we will leave Iraq when the Iraqis are ready to 'stand up' militarily. But as respected figures like Rep. Murtha have pointed out, our presence enables the Iraqis to specifically not stand up militarily. And our presence undoubtedly hurts their recruitment as a number of otherwise patriotic Iraqis don't want to be seen as tools of the American occupiers. We're complicating the situation for the Iraqis as much if not more than we're actually helping at this point.

Even so, the fundamental problem with the administration's handling of Iraq is that we don't have a clear endpoint in mind. The administration is completely focused on 'not losing' instead of 'winning.' It's about stopping the bleeding instead of making actual gains. The President has said that "we will never accept anything less than complete victory." But if victory remains undefined, how will he know whether or not to accept it?



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Rumsfeld (none / 0)

The enemy hears a big debate in the United States, and they have to wonder: 'Maybe all we have to do is wait and we'll win. We can't win militarily.' They know that. The battle is here in the United States," Rumsfeld said on "Fox News Sunday."

That's right, debate is dangerous for America. I mean, it'd be a real shame if debate triggered, I dont know, thought.  I mean, what if the GOP started thinking for a change, hell, they might provide some kind of oversight of the War. Maybe establish a Trumanesque committee to investigate war spending and preparedness.  Worse yet, they might even start posting on MyDD.

Tennesseans for Russ Feingold
by schwompa on Mon Nov 21, 2005 at 01:49:00 PM EST

Resist the Shift of the Debate (none / 0)

The central issue here is to shift the debate away from some obviously loosing points (attack Murtha, Mean Jean comments). These attacks expose the ugly, vendictive side of the Wingers that they don't want you to see.  

The problem the issue is that it accunates Republican's problems with Iraq: A increasingly unpopular war with no exit strategy.  

Rather than rise to the Wingers bait to change the debate, I think a good way to keep it focused is this:

(A) If the Repubs believe that Congressman Murtha is Correct, then 'What Is The Republican PLAN to Disengage? They have control of both houses and the  White House. Republicans are in charge of the agenda.'

(B) If they just start asking what our plan is:  Respond with... 'Then you agree that Rep. Murtha was correct in needing to withdraw?' No matter what they answer go back to Point (A).

It's just one of those debating tricks to keep your opponent in a box, but is is a trick and a mantra that the Wingers use well, we need to bet better at this to re-frame the debate.

by NvDem on Mon Nov 21, 2005 at 02:24:49 PM EST

If they define what victory is.... (none / 0)

then they set a point at which all troops will be withdrawn. And they don't want to do that. This "war" cannot be won in terms of eradicating the terrorists. They will always be there. Kill some and they will recruit new jihadists. I think this is what John Murtha realizes and why he knows we can't win.
Memo to neocons: I respect your right to have an opinion, but I just don't want to hear it anymore.
by blogus on Mon Nov 21, 2005 at 05:05:45 PM EST

Knee jerk leftist (1.00 / 0)

Please explain how any war in history had a declared "endpoint," other than victory.
by Reid Rininger on Tue Nov 22, 2005 at 04:14:45 AM EST

Re: Knee jerk leftist (none / 0)

WWII - Contain and/or roll back fascist gains around the world.

Vietnam - Keep South Vietnam from falling to the Communists.

Etc, etc.

The endpoint in Iraq was ending the WMD programs and installing a democratic government. The WMDs weren't there. A democratic government is now in place. But we're apparently still there because it's the central front in the war on terror? It's a magnet for al Qaeda because we're there.

Man, this was a pretty stupid question, even for a wingnut troll.

by Scott Shields on Sun Nov 27, 2005 at 05:02:59 PM EST
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