MyDD Straw Poll Results

The October Straw Poll is finished. Since this poll was was identical to the poll in September, this is the first month where a trendline is available.
First Past the Post
               Oct    Sep
Clark	       31     34
Feingold	       23     23
Edwards 	       12     11
Warner	       9      8
Clinton 	       7      8
Richardson     4      4
Bayh	       3      1
Biden	       1      1
Not Sure	       6      6

Instant Run-off, Final Round
	      Oct    Sep
Clark	       57     52
Feingold	       43     32
Edwards 	       --     16
Clark has maintained a solid lead in these polls for months, no matter who the candidates have been. In October, his lead slipped ever so slightly from September, to 8 over Feingold in "first past the post" and requiring a head-to-head final round with Feingold in the IRV voting (In September, he won the IRV poll in the second to last round). However, while Clark's lead has dropped, Feingold was not the beneficiary. Instead, Edwards has seen a noticeable rise in his support, at first near the end of the September voting and again in October. Clinton, by contrast, who once challenged for second place in these polls, has now dropped to fifth behind Warner, who has also risen of late.

So, the only narrative I can divine, if any, is that of Edwards and Warner rising, seemingly at Clark and Clinton's expense. Of course, we are still thirteen months before the 2008 Presidential race becomes the main focus of the political blogosphere, and I will be very surprised if one of these polls ever shows Clark not leading. At the same time, while Clark looks to be in position to win the "invisible" netroots primary, the field look fairly static, and it is hard to imagine him pulling away anytime soon.



Display:


Snark (3.00 / 1)

Not bad for a "reformed moderate Republican"
by wes wing on Mon Oct 10, 2005 at 10:56:57 AM EST

Re: Snark (none / 0)

LOL!  Thanks for making my day!
by ICantBelieve on Mon Oct 10, 2005 at 02:16:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Clark, Gore, Hillary, Edwards, and sighs (none / 0)

I was with Wes in 2004. I still really like him; but, I have real concerns about his lack of experience as a campaigner. I'd be inclined to be part of the Gore netroots rah-rah squad, too, relative to 2008, if I didn't have similar concerns about him.

Wes' lack of experience really showed and very soon after he jumped into the race. I heard him speak several times and met him three times. I came away each time thinking that Wes was damn smart, would make a good president, and--at the end of the day--actually had the best policy proposals (many of which were genuinely more progressive than his rivals'). To re-read some of those policy papers, especially on health care, taxation, and a new federally-led American volunteerism is to believe more strongly than ever that America missed a golden opportunity to set the nation back on the right track by electing Wes Clark to be President. But, from each of those encounters with Wes, I also came away thinking he was too untried and inexperienced as a candidate, as a campaigner. Sadly, it's often true that the best choices for who should govern are not always the most "winning" choices in terms of the ruthless and exhausting game of electoral politics, especially at the national level.

Importantly, I also never ceased to be reminded by each of these encounters with Wes that the SAME thing happened with me relative to Gore in 2000! (This despite the big differences between the candidates on many levels.)

I met Gore the same number of times in 2000, once in a special hour-long, closed-door meeting with about 40 other LGBT Dem leaders and thinkers from across New York state. I was ON FIRE for Gore in many ways: he was shatteringly intelligent, which came across in person especially strongly (intelligence is seldom translated well into the world of sound bites).

But, he just proved to be a horrible campaigner.

Somewhat to my own surprise, I'm increasingly gravitating towards Hillary.

First of all, she's more likely to actually run, I think, than Wes or Gore--certainly more so than Gore. Also:

Inthe context of the post-Bush republic voters will face in '08, I think Hillary may be exactly the palate (sp?)-cleanser Dems and huge segments of Independents and swing-voters may want.

The nation will be in a sorry state. The Bill Clinton years, in retrospect, might look more golden than ever, especially in terms of just sheer COMPETENCE.

Hillary is constructing a persona and record of COMPETENCE and of a sort of matriarchal strength that, importantly, resonates as fairly masculine and practical, not homemaker-ish (a la Liz Dole), or stereotypically (in the unjust sense) feminine (e.g. the awkwardness and even dilettante-like quality of Condi Rice). Also, after four more years, the extremism of Bush will be, I hope!, genuinely recognized as extreme. Extreme and profoundly un-american in its impracticality. What Hillary may be best represent at that point, especially since she's positioning herself as a moderate, is a comforting commonsensicalness America will be thirsting for.

Finally, Hillary is more likely, I think, to make the Right overplay their hand. Many wingnuts go apoplectic at the mere mention of her name. And screeds about Vince Foster murders and lesbianism will not endear an American electorate exhausted by Bush extremism with Republican commentators sounding extreme in their attacks.

But, who knows. Maybe American will want unity more than anything. That seems to be the conventional wisdom. (I'm not sure about that, though. My bet is going to be that America won't be selecting the President based finally on a "Who can unify us?" concern but a "Who can get the job done/get us out of these messes?" concern.) If so, Hillary may not be the best choice.

Edwards might be the sleeper. I don't know. He proved to be a poor debater but a overall good campaigner. His rhetoric on the notion of an America that rewards wealth, not work, seems to have the potential to resonate DEEPLY with huge segments of the population. He's white; he's a man; he's attractive; he's Southern; he's successful; he created a large network of donors who are still committed (not that Hillary hasn't created the same thing; but, Gore's donors seem very gun shy).

So, in this poll discussed above, as in the current one, I voted Not Sure. There are so many variables, and it's so many, many, many political lifetimes between now and 2007, let alone 2008, that I think it's very difficult to be fully intellectually honest relative to any deep conviction right now for a particular possible nominee. Vague preferences I can understand. But for unshakeable certainty about a particular choice right now, I just don't think it reflects reality as it is right, which is a landscape dominated by too many unknowables and variables at this point.

Isebrand.com and Religious Right Watch
by IseFire on Mon Oct 10, 2005 at 11:37:33 AM EST

Re: Clark, Gore, Hillary, Edwards, and sighs (none / 0)

As far as hillary is concerned, I will not support, nor can the country afford, a presidential candidate who is first, last and always an Israeli lawn jockey.  Her stance on the Iraq war is both flat wrong and disingenuous.  Clark will not be a rookie in the coming campaign, and he showed an ability to learn from his mistakes as his campaign progressed.  I like Edward Rhetorical gifts, his intelligence and his ability to make populist points through identity and not overblown rhetoric.  So Edwards/Clark, Feingold/Clark or and Edwards and Feingold ticket would suit me. Edwards "Two Americas" theme resonates ever more deeply in the wake of recent events. No matter who runs, I'll vote for no one who will not get in the GOP face, who will not trash the record of the GOP on no uncertain terms and who will back off the term "liar" when referring to W. "J'accuse" should be a campaign meme.
by Docsilver on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 04:06:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hillary...ugh (none / 0)

Can we please not keep creating faux aristocrats? Just because you banged (or were born to, or a blood relation of) someone who held power doesn't mean you should hold power.
by ElitistJohn on Sun Nov 06, 2005 at 08:59:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

So can we surmise that the only two (none / 0)

realistic candidates for the netroots to support are Edwards and Warner.  

I'm leaning toward Edwards.

by Jonathan Schwartz on Mon Oct 10, 2005 at 11:43:05 AM EST

Re: So can we surmise that the only two (3.00 / 1)

How do you figure?  I'm for Sen. Feingold, all the way, but I think that Sen. Clinton, Gen. Clark, and others are still realistic candidates.  Why isn't Russ a realistic candidate for the netroots to support?
by LaX WI on Mon Oct 10, 2005 at 11:54:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Because he's Jewish and single and divorced (none / 0)

Blah, blah, blah.

This type of thinking got us Kerry last time.

Look, Feingold will not run if he doesn't think he will be able to win the presidency.  In fact, he will not run if he thinks that some other Democratic canidate has a better chance than himself to win the presidency (even if he also has a shot).

He will run, and he will win.

by Geotpf on Mon Oct 10, 2005 at 12:29:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Because he's Jewish and single and divorced (none / 0)

I think I agree with you (but you might not quite agree with what I've written, below).

This is a horrible list of candidates.

Almost all these people are the kind of DC insiders who have caused all the Democratic Party's problems for the last dozen years.

I am surprised to see that on this blog of activists and progressives, particularly; that nobody has noticed that none of these people enjoys a groundswell of support from anywhere -- except perhaps for HRC, who is losing her support quickly.  

... and I am sick and tired of seeing posts from supposed Clark supporters on the dozen Liberal blogs I read regularly.  Clark has no real support down here in the grass roots. These Clarkies are phonies.

Clark doesn't speak up on important issues. He has taken no important stands and made no important political news of any kind; ever.  You Clarkies are early operatives from what Clark hopes will become his next Presidential campaign, and I'm just plain tired of seeing you guys pretend to be just plain ordinary Democratic voters.  

Wailing on Clark is worth it here, because he is representative of EVERY OTHER person on this list.

None of these "front-runners" are in touch with the grass roots. They don't take early stands on important issues. They still think the DLC strategy of shutting up and waiting for the dust to settle will win an election for them sooner or later -- even while the rest of us watch Bush flush our Democracy down the toilet.

As a progressive voter, I will not be voting Democratic in 2008 if these are my choices. We absolutely have to work for better choices than this. If I have to, I'll write in Howard Dean's name in my Primary.

blue

by blue73 on Tue Oct 11, 2005 at 06:27:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So can we surmise that the only two (none / 0)

Because Clark and Feingold won't be nominated, and Hillary isn't worth the effort it would take to win in the general election.  
by Jonathan Schwartz on Mon Oct 10, 2005 at 12:34:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So can we surmise that the only two (none / 0)

Clark can easily be nominated.
Washington Woman

Progressive Blue

by kevin22262 on Mon Oct 10, 2005 at 01:37:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

So can Feingold (none / 0)

Feingold is the only truly anti-war canidate running.  If that is the major issue in 08, he should win the nomination easily.
by Geotpf on Mon Oct 10, 2005 at 01:46:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So can we surmise that the only two (none / 0)

HUH??

  No... Clark is my man!

 

Washington Woman

Progressive Blue

by kevin22262 on Mon Oct 10, 2005 at 01:36:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So can we surmise that the only two (none / 0)

Actually, by that logic, we should all be lining up behind Evan Bayh. (Note that he's the only candidate who gained 2% this month, instead of just 1%. Or you could frame it as: "Evan Bayh's support goes up 200%!")

Note: I do not support Evan Bayh at all, and consistently rank him last in Vilsack-free IRV polls. I just felt it would be fair to him to point out (since no one else has) that he's actually this month's big gainer.

by Crazy Vaclav on Mon Oct 10, 2005 at 07:40:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Divination (none / 0)


Divination is a black art.

The entire american political apparatus is beholden to those that would steer it by the ring of its nose, if only to take small snapshots in time of "trends".

If you give me that each poll could reflect a trend in that moment, then I can prove there is life after death easily. Each statement must be true, but the inferences (for example,  ones ability to infer american displeasure with the 10,000 page bill system now in place, from one administration to the next..) must be drawn only from the small moment in time one is looking at the poll.  As such, predictions and trending right now are not a scientific but political statement.

What, you say, not true - ? Behold each statement is true in the next proof.

Proof of life after death:

After death, there is mourning
after morning comes a night
after knight, comes the bishop
after bishop, comes the pope
The pope has serious convictions
After a serious conviction, you get life

Therefore - life after death.

QED

by turnerbroadcasting on Mon Oct 10, 2005 at 11:45:47 AM EST

I would take Warner over Edwards (none / 0)

I love Edwards, and I think he would make a good cabinet secretary, but his resume is just to thin. One un-distinguished term in the Senate. Warner has only one term as governor, but it is chock full of accomplishments. He took a state on the brink and turned it around. He's not as charismatic as Edwards, but he does seem to have an ability to connect to rural voters and I think he would be acceptable to the liberal base. Need to hear more about his stances on the issue, especially foreign policy(always a weakness for a governor), but I am leaning towards him. I would love a Mark(Warner)/(Wes)Clark ticket in 2008.  
by jj32 on Mon Oct 10, 2005 at 12:05:57 PM EST

i'd wager on Hillary (none / 0)


just because of the odds:

  http://tinyurl.com/7u69a

but then, I'm not a betting man.

by spandrel on Mon Oct 10, 2005 at 12:08:51 PM EST

Feingold (3.00 / 2)

I'm actually impressed with Feingold's showing this month. In the wake of the John Roberts vote, many would say that Feingold would suffer horribly in these online polls and in support - that proved not to be true. What it did prove is that either most people who were upset in it finally rationalized it, forgave him for it, or realized it was the better course. For those who didn't vote for him this time around, Feingold probably replaced those votes with fresh montly recruits who have finally looked into Feingold (being low on name ID and low on positions, compared to Clark, Clinton, and Edwards). Next month I suspect that Feingold will rise yet again.
by KainIIIC on Mon Oct 10, 2005 at 12:21:59 PM EST

Its got to be Wes (none / 0)

Two things
1- In politics, you need to be heard. Hillary's cultural baggage would mean there would be one very fat block of voters just not open to even listening. That would mean tat the whole damn election would be fought for'moderate' voters, as it was in 2004- instead of creating new potential voters. The Ds victories in places like MT and VA signal that we can win in "Red" states- but the canddidate needs to be able to talk directly to the voters- and that means no baggage. GA, for example, is winnanble but not by a Senator from NY- let alone Hillary!

2- in the end, the war will still be on in 2008 and we will need to offer someone who can navigate between the extremes of bug-out and a stay the course (forever) choice. Ike offered just that in 1952.

3. If the GOP offfers McCain, we will need someone who can match the military experience.

by clarkdemocrats on Mon Oct 10, 2005 at 12:34:43 PM EST

Not sure what this proves. (none / 0)

With a closed-option slate of candidates, we're pretty much stuck with whoever you put on it.

Just like a six-sided die, you either get a 1,2,3,4,5, or 6. Never a 7. It's not built into the plan.

But sometimes life throws you a 7.

I see this whole straw poll as pointless since the options 'someone else' or 'none of the above' are unavailable. Close-option polls only work to steer the results.

by T Dubya Ault on Mon Oct 10, 2005 at 12:39:46 PM EST

Re: Not sure what this proves. (none / 0)

I see your point and I almost agree with it.  I still think the polls are useful, because it gives the rest of us a clear, early look at the general condition of the Democratic party on a National level.

It is clear to me from this and other polls, that the National party is woefully out of touch with its grass roots everywhere in the country.  An earlier myDD poll supported this, reporting that 70% of all self-described Democratic voters criticizing their elected leaders for not opposing the Iraq war strongly enough; only fifteen percent or so asking for stronger support for Bush's Iraq policy -- and ONLY THREE PERCENT of these voters actually following the lead of the kinds of people listed at the top of this entry!!

Three percent is an amazingly low statistic. This means that there simply is no political leadership happening in the Party. It pretty much condemns these "candidates" to irrelevance and defines a serious problem for the National party:  We Democratic voters don't Like ANY of our choices. We want a new list of much more articulate and aggressive candidates.  

blue

by blue73 on Wed Oct 12, 2005 at 11:32:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Clark/Warner (none / 0)

For me, Clark/Warner is simply an unbeatable ticket.  Even if the Republicans put up McCain/Bush, McCain/Graham or McCain/Rice, they'd get the living shit kicked out of them.  

For me, General Clark has the most vision of any Democratic candidate, especially in regards to foreign policy.  He would wipe the floor with any of the potential wingnut candidates and would take McCain's national security edge and shove it down his throat.  Clark's tax policies might have enough appeal to individuals who have traditionally voted against their own economic interest to crossover and support a Democrat.

There isn't another candidate in the field that can fire up the liberal base of our party and peel of potentially millions of Republicans, especially if the unthinkable happens and McCain/Giuliani/Rice get the nomination.  

Having Governor Warner, another big idea, visionary candidate, as his number two would swing Virginia in our favor.  If you add Virginia and Arkansas to the Kerry States, we win.  Clark/Warner also puts Lousiana, North Carolina (ravaged by ecnomic policies of this adminstration), West Virginia and Montana into play.  I suspect Clark/Warner or even Clark/Feingold would win via landslide against any candidate excluding McCain (even Hagel), and even with McCain on the top of the ticket, they'd win handily.  

by Hadi on Mon Oct 10, 2005 at 04:02:25 PM EST

Feingold/Clark in 2008 (3.00 / 2)

best of both worlds.
by johnny longtorso on Mon Oct 10, 2005 at 04:03:09 PM EST

That's my pick (none / 0)


by Geotpf on Mon Oct 10, 2005 at 07:08:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

NO MORE SENATORS! (none / 0)

They do not win. Period.
by ArkySue on Mon Oct 10, 2005 at 04:38:57 PM EST

No more mush-mouths (3.00 / 2)

Senators lose when they talk like senators, with a lot of equivocation, jargon, and critical distance (Kerry, Dole). You know what? Governors also lose when they talk like technocrats (Dukakis, Stevenson), and so do vice-presidents (Gore, Mondale).

Senators win if they talk in plain English with a lot of passion and soaring rhetoric (Kennedy). So do governors (FDR, Reagan, Clinton). You know who else is really good at framing complicated stuff in relatable common-sense terms? Senator Russ Feingold. (And Senator Obama and Governor Schweitzer even more so, but let's give them some more time in the on-deck circle.)

by Crazy Vaclav on Mon Oct 10, 2005 at 06:46:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Exactly (none / 0)

Feingold wins over people in the center, and he does it by talking like a normal joe as opposed to a senator.
by Geotpf on Mon Oct 10, 2005 at 07:09:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No more mush-mouths (none / 0)

And... Wes Clark.
Washington Woman

Progressive Blue

by kevin22262 on Tue Oct 11, 2005 at 03:38:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No more mush-mouths (none / 0)

Clark talks normal, but his speeches are no where near as great and invigorating as many Clark supporters have described them to be. He doesn't put you to sleep, but he doesn't pump you up either.

Out of all the potential candidates being floated around, Mark Warner is, without a doubt, the best speaker. Edwards and Feingold are good but fall obviously short of Warner.

One aspect of the 2004 election that killed us with the independents is that Bush was so much more attractive of a candidate in the sense that, when he spoke, despite how stupid he sounds, he came across as much more approachable(sp?) than Kerry. His tone, facial expressions, and speech all made Kerry seem like an elitist and Bush like an average guy.

Gov. Warner speaks with such genuine emotion in his voice and mannerisms that he can win over any crowd that is willing to listen, and maybe even some that aren't. He's about building up the Democratic Party, not tearing the Republican Party down, and that is the message we need. A.B.B. failed in '04 and the same attitude will fail in '08.

We're Democrats! We have more than enough patriotism and conviction to fill blog after blog and editorial after editorial with positive progressive messages trumpeting successes we know we can achieve. We have to put the negativity aside, and stand united behind optimism for both Dems and America.

by NickC on Thu Jan 26, 2006 at 01:32:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Clark / Feingold 08' (none / 0)

I got to meet and work for them both last year and was impressed by both.  They both listen to the questions and ooze sincerity.  Both are smart as whips.
 I think Wes on top of the ticket puts more RED into play, and I can't imagine what would happen to our planet if we have a repeat of 04'.  

 

by Tundraman on Mon Oct 10, 2005 at 09:24:15 PM EST

the big problem with Clark (none / 0)

He has as much governing experience as I do.  And he has about as much success as a campaigner.  Face it, his support in the primaries came from the netroots, which was there before he even got into the race.  He could have not campaigned at all and finished ahead of Joementum and Reverend Al.

However, whoever does get the nomination would be wise to either give Clark the second spot, or to annouce him as a Secretary of Defense.  I thought that would have been a great move for Kerry - to say, "running against this guy, I respected him, and I saw that he understands the problems facing our military and people support him, etc., so if elected I will name Wes Clark as my SecDef."  That way, you can have Clark campaigning for you, and bolster your foreign policy cred.  Someone like Feingold or Warner would be wise to do that.

Of course, all of this straw polling is pretty useless anyway - who knew who Howard Dean was in 2002?  Or who Bill Clinton was in 1990?

"It's not enough to say you'll be ready from Day One - you have to be right from Day One."
by schroeder on Tue Oct 11, 2005 at 04:04:40 PM EST

Re: the big problem with Clark (1.00 / 1)

The Big question of whether we win or not is will someone tie all the political consultants especially Schrum and Lahane up and lock them and keep them from throwing the orginal campaign staff out and destroying the campaign of whoever wins since this seems to be our biggest problem are all the Damn stupid political consultants
by orin76 on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 08:28:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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