McAuliffe-Stop-Dean?

"There are many good candidates for DNC chair," Schumer, D-N.Y., told ABC News. "Terry McAuliffe has been a great chair and could continue to be one."

Oh yea, and we'd tar McAuliffe as the leader of the status quo movement to halt reform and stop Dean. Is that what Terry wants to make happen?

What Schumer wants, as the new Chair of the DSCC, is for the DNC to be more responsive to the Congressional candidates financial needs. But on the face of this, it looks like just another means for the Democratic Leaders in DC to offer anyone, even the status of the status quo, as an alternative to reforming the Party under Dean.

I don't think this is going anywhere, personally. One DNC member, upon my speaking about the possibility of another McAuliffe term, asked "who's saying that?" And further, that, "there's no support for that happening" among DNC members.  As the article, Another Term for McAuliffe as DNC Chair? states, the netroots has not been enthralled by McAuliffe as DNC Chair, but neither has it been overly hostile, as he's pushed many of the technological advances that have been needed. But McAuliffe can stop "thinking about it". No way. Not even for a single-year term.

Those oppossed to Dean are heeding Murtha's support for Dean as a signal that they need to get their act in gear with an anti-Dean alternative. Seeing how little traction there's been for Roemer or Blanchard (they might continue on for a while but support seems timid at best), and with little support for another McAuliffe term, it's Frost (the Kirk endorsement helped) that's emerging with traction among the status quo forces in Congress. Look for that to grow over the next few days. Hotline asks, "are there now two co-frontrunners: Dean and Frost?" Further support for Rosenberg or Fowler hinges on what Dean does. As for Dean, the 'quiet revolution' continues, and he's said to have an announcement on his candidacy coming soon.

I've been reading Steve Neal's "Happy Days are Here Again", which details the emergence of Roosevelt in the 1932 convention. There were many forces aligned against Roosevelt being nominated for President, and if the Stop Roosevelt forces could have united behind a single candidate, it would become an epic battle. Roosevelt had the most delegates, but not enough to win the nomination outright:

If the Roosevelt lines broke at any point, his lead might not hold. Powerful forces were out to stop him. The opposition included the leadership of the Democratic National Committee, the hard and ruthless bosses of the big-city machines, and the most influential members of the last Democratic administration. Three Democratic presidential nominees, including Alfred E. Smith, whose name Roosevelt had presented three times before national conventions, and James M. Cox, who had picked the young FDR as his running mate, were in Chicago working against his nomination.

"We were notably lacking in nationally known Democrats committed to our candidate," said Roosevelt strategist Edward J. Flynn, the Bronx Democratic leader. "Taking the Roosevelt organization from Jim Farley down, about 90 percent of them were newcomers and amateurs."

In the era of the press lords, the largest newspaper chains opposed Roosevelt's nomination. "The times call for courage and action", the Scripps-Howard newspapers said in a front-page editorial. "We have those qualities in [Alfred E.] Smith. There are other men in the Democratic party who possess them. Judged by his performance Roosevelt does not." ONly one of a half dozen New York daily newspapers supported Roosevelt. Of the five Chicago daily newspapers that would be read by delegates during convention week, none were friendly to FDR.

The popular and influential columnists Walter Lippmann, H. L. Mencken, Heywood Broun, and Will Rogers favored an alternative to Roosevelt in Chicago.

Organized labor was not aligned with Roosevelt or any of the Democratic contenders.... union leaders were neutral in the 1932 Democratic presidential contest. Big business openly worked against Roosevelt's nomination. The international bankers of Wall Street and the public-utility interests were determined to stop him

You get the picture. Reform never comes easy, especially for those in the eye of the storm.



Display:


Enough of Texas already. (3.00 / 2)

I have Texas fatigue.

I want some political leadership from a less messed up state. I realize that Texas Dems aren't to blame for the state of public policy in Texas right now. However, the Texas Democratic Party is to blame for the mess the Texas Democratic Party in Texas is in. The only party more out of power than US Democratic Party is the Texas Democratic Party. I realize the GOP cheated like hell to make that happen. I just don't think we should be selecting leaders from those who are screwed up the worst. Victimization statistics aren't the first things I look for on a resume. Just a personal thing... your milage may vary.

by afs on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 12:21:16 PM EST

Re: Enough of Texas already. (none / 0)

Yea, it's like, will you do for the Democratic Party what you've done in Texas?  Frost spent more money than any other congressional canididate in 2004, and still lost by double-digits.
by Jerome Armstrong on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 12:27:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Enough of Texas already. (none / 0)

"will you do for the Democratic Party what you've done in Texas?"

This should be Frost's campaign slogan.  LOL.

I think its unfair to blame him for his own defeat though.  My understanding is that he was just put in a horrible district.

Andy Katz
by Andy Katz on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 03:31:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

very funny (none / 0)

love that slogan!  

and you're about half-right on martin's district.  take a look at this breakdown on pete sessions's site.  it's got some good stats on the registration and voting habits of the districts that were chopped up to create TX-32.  TX-24 is martin's (and my) old district, and a large chunk of it was gerrymandered into the new TX-32.  that part happens to be heavily populated by AAs and thank god they consistently vote democrat here, otherwise martin would have lost by a much greater margin.  

but more telling is the district map (warning!  pdf file).  if you pull that up you'll see at the top left an enlarged view of dallas county.  zoom in 200% and you'll be better able to see the district.  where it says "cockrell hill", that's the minority part (AA) that used to be in TX-24.  but notice the district wraps around the west side of the city of dallas to include parts of irving (also largely minority/hispanic), but then it wraps around the north side of town to include highland park (UBER UBER wealthy & white mcmansion land), university park (also UBER wealthy & white), plus the suburbs of addison and richardson (GOPland).  so basically, it's a pretty mixed district, but the parts of GOPland that are included in the district are VERY RELIABLY GOP.

shit, i gotta run folks.  would love to chime in some more but a coworker just came by and told us we've got an ice storm on the way.  i have GOT to get home before the overpasses ice over.  will check the thread later...

Visit us at TexasKAOS, where we're taking Texas back!
by annatopia on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 04:14:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

indeed (none / 0)

that's one of the reasons i wholly oppose molly beth malcolm for DNC chair.  i don't know if she's running anymore (probably not, with martin in the race), but all i can say is that there were very good reasons she was run out of the TDP's chairmanship on a rail.  not that it's not all her fault; in fact she was just following in a long tradition of crappy dem party heads here in texas. but your point is valid:  enough of this texas crap.  we're doing much better now than we were just two short years ago, but anyone who was part of the party structure as it fell apart does not deserve to be promoted to the national level.  i mean come on, i thought that it was the bushies who liked to fail upwards...
Visit us at TexasKAOS, where we're taking Texas back!
by annatopia on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 01:00:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Enough of Texas already. (none / 0)

Yes, we're in a sorry state down here.  But Frost is an incredible politician.  Personally, I support Dean for chair, but Frost would run a very tight ship.  Frost had nothing to do with the redistricting, and is very smart and capable.  Don't dismiss him just because he's from Texas.
by Eric in Texas on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 02:19:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It's theoretically impossible to ignore Texans. (none / 0)

Texans have about as much chance of ever going unnoticed in any given situation as all the electrons in the universe have of all rotating in the same direction at the same time.  

The physical laws which govern the universe also prevent Texans from even theoretically being ignored in any circumstance.

The force which guarantees Texans attention is as stong a force as those which hold sub-nuclear particles together.

by afs on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 02:39:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

jock strap (2.00 / 1)

Dean couldn't carry FDR's. not in a million years.
by dorsettty on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 12:32:05 PM EST

Never underestimate a Doctor (none / 0)

Anyone who can get through any medical school, internship, and residency program in the US is very capable person. It's no picnic.

It's also why I fear Bill Frist the most from the GOP side.

by afs on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 12:37:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Bill Frist is boring (none / 0)

I'm falling asleep just thinking about him.  He's Bob Dole Part Deux.

I'm worried about McCain, myself.

by Geotpf on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 04:34:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bill Frist is boring (none / 0)

I agree about McCain.  I think the conventional wisdom is that McCain is too disliked by the right, particularly the religious right, to get the nomination.  However, the Republicans have a tendency to nominate "the next in line."  It has been since 1952 really since the Republicans went "out of order," nominating Ike instead of Taft.  Many Republicans, including some conservatives, will support McCain just because it is "his turn."  Also, if Bush is doing poorly politically by then, which I am absolutely convinced will be the case, then many Repugs will turn to him as their best shot at retaining power.
Andy Katz
by Andy Katz on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 05:10:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

2000 was Jack Kemp's turn. (none / 0)

The far right and oil money took care of that. Even Kemp was too centrist. McCain's only support will be cross-over support and independents.
by afs on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 05:17:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Exactly (none / 0)

If McCain can escape the primary, we're fucked in the general election because of independent and crossover support.  But the primary will be a struggle for him most likely.
by Geotpf on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 05:34:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

key McCain aspect of 08 priorities (none / 0)

There's a balance between demotivating Democrats in '08 if we run against McCain - and using the knowledge as a tool to direct resources appropriately.

In other words, if McCain is the nominee, we get 527 spending and party resources tilted downballot.  Etc.

Because there not a doubt in my mind McCain would have to be in very poor health or somehow very clumsy to be beatable if he wins their nomination.   He's very, very strong with I's and center Dems.    We would need nothing less than a Clinton level of appeal and strategic execution to beat McCain.    (A right wing 3rd party challenge

by Andmoreagain on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 06:54:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: key McCain aspect of 08 priorities (none / 0)

At the end of your post, you say something about a right wing 3rd party candidate.  I think this is a probability if McCain does win the nomination.
Andy Katz
by Andy Katz on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 09:21:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bill Frist is boring (none / 0)

Forget McCain. He's got too many negatives, is too disliked by the party establishment, and is too old. Guiliani and Pataki are pro-choice and couldn't get the base out.

McCain would rather be kingmaker in 2008 than President. If Frist is the establishment's guy, McCain will back someone else, Chuck Hagel or Lindsey Graham being that likely someone else.

BTW, the last time the Republicans went "out of line" was 1980. It was George H.W. Bush's turn, but Reagan won the nomination.

by wayward on Fri Jan 07, 2005 at 07:50:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: jock strap (none / 0)

Yea dorsetty, I'm sure we could have counted you among those there that would have said Roosevelt doesn't have the balls like Smith & Co., either.
by Jerome Armstrong on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 12:39:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: jock strap (3.00 / 1)

All I'm saying is that no matter how much faith anyone and all of us have in Dean, I don't think it is right to liken him to FDR at this point. FDR was, in my opinion, the greatest president we've ever had. Howard Dean was Gov. of Vermont for a decade. Yes, he revolutionized things and spoke up when no one else would, but actions speak louder than words...and I think we should hold off on these such comparisons, that's all.
by dorsettty on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 12:59:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

actions (none / 0)

have you seen his vermont record?  
Visit us at TexasKAOS, where we're taking Texas back!
by annatopia on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 01:01:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: actions (3.00 / 1)

the record, the record, the record...

we heard this ad nauseum in '03 and '04.

He was from a liberal state.  He enacted good liberal policies.  Nice.   He didn't develop safe nuclear fusion.   He didn't save starving children in Somalia.   He didn't explore the rings of Saturn.

Look, Dean is fine as DNC chair.   I think he's really limited as a candidate.    Argue otherwise if you like.   But the constant Deification is so, so silly.   "Dean is Reagan. Dean is FDR"  What's next, Gandhi?.

by Andmoreagain on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 01:39:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: actions (none / 0)

you heard it ad nauseum because he had demonstrated that he could successfully govern.  he had to push bills past the most liberal of liberals and the most conservative of conservatives.  but somehow, this governor who ascended due to the death of snelling (IIRC) did such a good job that he was re-elected several times.  and if you talk to people who live in vermont, most of them will say great things about dean and his tenure as governor.

i'm not deifying dean and i take umbrage with you lumping me into the category with the vocal moniroty of rabid deaniacs who thinks he can do no wrong.  quite the contrary. i recognise that he's a flawed man.  but nobody's perfect, and dean has delivered.  why is that such a bad thing to bring up?  i just don't get it.

Visit us at TexasKAOS, where we're taking Texas back!
by annatopia on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 02:58:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

agreed, truce, but.... (none / 0)

though some are, many VT Repubs are not that conservative.   That made it a lot easier to govern than, say, FL where the ideological spread and population is far larger.  

In this case (and in most cases) I don't see being governor of a very blue (or very red, for that matter) state as being indicative of how well they'd conduct the partisan political aspect of President in a very hostile Washington.

many governors govern relatively well when they are ideologically inline with their states.    

by Andmoreagain on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 03:22:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

truce accepted (none / 0)

i see where you're coming from.  perhaps i disagree slightly with the way you charactersise the vermont GOP. i'd say they lean more libertarian, but i've never lived in vermont.  that's just the impression i get from the outside.
Visit us at TexasKAOS, where we're taking Texas back!
by annatopia on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 03:55:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: actions (none / 0)

Most people that rip on Dean have never bothered to read about his record.  He's less liberal what was in 1960's Republican Presidential platform.  

What's McAuliffe's record?  Losing two presidential elections, losing the media war, losing seats in congress, and (until this year) losing Dem representation at the state level.  Yeah, that deserves another term as DNC chair.  

by LionelEHutz on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 02:07:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: actions (none / 0)

Who's defending McAuliffe? Not me.

I don't want Terry Mack around any more, though he's certainly been over criticized in the blogosphere.   He had relatively little to do with the losses you describe.    You're looking to place the whole of the party's troubles in the locus of the DNC chair.  That is delusional.    You really need to spread the blame around.    

The forgotten people to blame in the current situation? Voters.  Democratic voters who tolerated sclerosis for so long.  People need to stop blaming politicians for not "energizing" them.    It's less about "energization" or feeling good and more about civic involvement and personal responsibility.  Maybe some of those "out of touch" didn't know that we wanted to be in touch?  Because Democratic voters  sat around took whatever was fed to us.  Yes, it's all reciprocal - we need better leaders and better rules.  Go ahead, get out there and recruit new people to run for office.  Run yourself.

 But enough of this "X is to blame.....Fix X or I take my ball and go home" stuff.    "Only X can fix Y......."    Groan.

 

by Andmoreagain on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 02:34:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: actions (none / 0)

You're being way two easy on Terry.  

Who chose to pour resources into the Florida governor's race two years ago, rather than the Senate?  

Who put the emphasis on money, money, money, and neglected to draw the line on just about any issue?  

Who does NOT appear to have done anything to work with the Democratic leaders to set up a war room or get them to talk with one voice.  

Yes, he brought in the cash, but his strategic blunders were a big reason why the Democratic Party got creamed two cycles in a row.  

by Samuel H Knight on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 03:25:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: actions (none / 0)

 I think his record is mixed, I don't disagree that he is partially culpable.    Sure you can come up with some specific things that he himself did wrong.  

But blaming him for the general state of the party is wrong.  And blaming him for putting the emphasis on "money, money, money" is a non starter.  He was reacting to circumstance.  Before '04 we were so deep in the hole we needed to fundraise by any means necessary.    

It's as if we had a patient bleeding from multiple wounds and McAuliffe has one tourniquet, and everybody blames him for the wounds he didn't tie off.

Again the expectation underneath is that the DNC chair is supposed to be some kind of wunderkind fundraiser, strategist, message genius, infrastructure builder, particle physicist, undersea explorer, and sexual dynamo all rolled into one.     Let's be real.    

In the end, if there is a real shortage of talent that forces us with lousy choices for jobs like DNC chair or state party chair......it's because people with talent often don't want to do these jobs.   Would you give up a career doing whatever to be the lowly underpaid head of some state Dem party (and break your back to get there?)

by Andmoreagain on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 04:07:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: actions (none / 0)

That's part of the problem, "lowly paid". Its endemic to Cap Hill, campaigns, etc...

Its really a sweet gig if you think it through. You get nothing, or little up front...but after years you have a nice loaded up rolodex and have big money options aplenty. So who can do this stuff? As I noted, retirees who have the time and pension...or nice upscale types who don't need the money.

To put it bluntly, my econ bcakground would call this an implicit barrier to entry for anyone middle class or lower in background. But really great if you want to reserve prestige/make big connections gigs to upscale kiddies starting out from college.

Funny that. Of course it really limits your diversity of knowledge, background, and available pool of brains to tap. But it does make sure that only the "right people" get in.

by ElitistJohn on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 05:36:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: actions (none / 0)

  I'm not disagreeing with your take on the composition tilt of the political class in general, but there are plenty of people from less than cushy upbringings out there.    

You have to pay a lot of dues, though.  

by Andmoreagain on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 06:45:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: jock strap (none / 0)

Then it would have been appropriate to say that instead of a rather rude comment that could easily be interpreted in another way.

'Sides Dean himself prefers comparisons to Truman and I believe that is a more accurate comparison.

But you never know until the election occurs and the records in the same office can be compared. As clearly pointed out by Jerome... the folks of his day didn't think FDR could carry FDR's jock strap either.

The 10,000 Things
by Andrew C White on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 01:49:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

"liken him to FDR" (none / 0)

And where did I liken Dean to FDR?  That was your offshoot. All I said was, You get the picture. Reform never comes easy...

What I did liken was the battle that Dean has waged against the status quo forces within the modern day Democratic party as an insitution, with what FDR  faced, and that's entirely accurate.

by Jerome Armstrong on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 02:09:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: jock strap (none / 0)

Roosevelt might alienate the moderate Southerners with his big government programs.  Also, Dean is a bad man and out of the mainstream.  Why?  Because he opposed a dumb war.
by SocialNetworker on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 06:17:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: jock strap (none / 0)

Sigh.

A comparison on one point is not a comparison on all points.

I REALLY wish people would learn this basic point.

by Chris Andersen on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 02:10:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: jock strap (none / 0)

If I liken the 'silent revolution' ongoing to reform the DNC membership with the evangelical crusade to take over the Republican party after Roe vs Wade, I imagine the outcry would be that today's Progressive movement couldn't hold the jock of the Conservative movement of those days?
by Jerome Armstrong on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 02:13:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

schumer (3.00 / 0)

From everything I've read, Schumer is planning to vote for confirmation of Gonzales as AG.  That in itself should disqualify him from having anything further to say about the future of the Democratic Party.
by global yokel on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 12:42:27 PM EST

why must schumer be turning into such a tool? (none / 0)

My heart really sunk about my senior senator when I saw him on MTP or another show a few days after the election offering his opinion on why the Dems lost. It went something like 'we made the mistake of running someone from the left end of the party, someone too far out of the mainstream of American politics' and implying contrast with his own political stances, supposedly more moderate. I nearly threw up.  It's a comment made more absurd when one notes Schumer's voting record lies mostly to the left of Kerry's (anecdotal evidence and Progressive Punch).  

I doubt he truly believes this, but with his decisive victory, he could have been one of the fighters for what the party truly stands for instead of another calculating politician all but saying the public wants the Bush agenda. Re-election or not, Bush is clearly NOT a popular president who can be opposed. It's frustrating to see so many of those in power on the Left bending to the will of the Right.  

by thurst on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 01:38:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

12+ years as a frost constituent... (3.00 / 1)

and i only have this to say:  if frost becomes head of the DNC, they will not see a dime from me until he's gone.
Visit us at TexasKAOS, where we're taking Texas back!
by annatopia on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 12:56:17 PM EST

That's good enough for me. (none / 0)

I've read your stuff online for a long time, back to the early days of the unoffical Dean blog. I've had your blog bookmarked for quite a while.
by afs on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 01:02:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

wow, thanks (none / 0)

i sincerely appreciate it, afs.  i do remember you from the dean nation days.  it's good to see a compadre around these parts.
Visit us at TexasKAOS, where we're taking Texas back!
by annatopia on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 01:20:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: wow, thanks (none / 0)

I just like you because you refer to Jerome and Markos as your bitches....
by Bob Brigham on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 01:22:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

LOL! (none / 0)

BWAHAHAHA!  oh my god.  now all my coworkers think i'm crazy because i'm laughing hysterically.

the way i see it, somebody has to slap these guys around every once in a while.  it keeps 'em humble.  

but seriously, the only reason i got away with saying that is because both jerome and markos have met me in person, so they know i'm ribbing them when i write things like that.  basically, they know what's a joke and what's serious.

thanks for the laugh, though, i really needed that. =)

Visit us at TexasKAOS, where we're taking Texas back!
by annatopia on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 02:42:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: LOL! (none / 0)

And thank you for posting the entire Dallas Morning News article I quote below so I didn't have to register.

Who down there would have some copies of Frosts ads?

by Bob Brigham on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 02:45:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

hell no (3.00 / 1)

As the article, Another Term for McAuliffe as DNC Chair? states, the netroots has not been enthralled by McAuliffe as DNC Chair, but neither has it been overly hostile

Except, the article does note: "Bloggers like the Daily Kos have made ridding the party of McAuliffe a central political crusade." I would consider that to be overtly hostile. I'd also consider any comment I've ever posted on McAllife to be overtly hostile because if it wasn't then I failed to convey my true emotions. In fact, just to be overtly hostile, I posted a diary on Kos looking back at Terry McAliffe in 2004 with the only resource being his Chairman's Corner on the DNC website.

And another thing, what is up with McAllife being "credited" by increasing the party's donor base by 70% (I think there is a term in latin for "after this therefore because of this" and I believe it is generally considered to be a logical fallacy). Credit Dean, credit Bush, but if anything netroots donations occured in spite of McAliffe.

But claiming underserved credit isn't the issue. The problem with McAliffe is that he has awful political instincts. Terry McAliffe will be remembered for the three major political bets he made...and lost. All of them critical erros:

  1. Money can buy elections and so the Democratic Party needs to work for big donors to get the big checks.

  2. A shorter primary season will allow the victory to begin the general campaign early and this will be a good thing.

  3. An earlier convention date will allow a better allocation of general election funds.

Democrats lost big-time because of those bets.

How loud do you think Ken Mehlman is laughing right now after hearing that we are considering -- once again -- sending a fundraiser to face off against the GOP strategists?

 

by Bob Brigham on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 01:04:20 PM EST

Nominate Rove (none / 0)

there's no one in the party that can lead it -- we're in trouble.  Big time.  No new ideas.  Same old crap.  That's why I lost.

John.

by JohnKerry on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 01:41:18 PM EST

Frost vs. Dean (3.00 / 0)

Didn't Frost run TV commercials touting how he supported President Chimp most of the time? Shouldn't that automatically disqualify him from Chairing our Party?

As for Dean's latest endorsement, let's hope that Murtha doesn't turn out to be this year's Gore!

"We are building a political movement - not one that wields the power of lobbyists and corporate interests, but the power of millions... who seek change." -Dean
by Jim in Chicago on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 02:04:32 PM EST

Re: Frost vs. Dean (none / 0)

I actually thought a good deal of Frost until the "Frost Heart Bush" ads. Granted, I hadn't followed him in congress, this only because of his DCCC work.

But this Bush ad thing was unacceptable. Really. We can't accept behavior like that. The man has zero integrity. And since he lost anyway has is now a loser zero integrity.

*

The Murtha/Gore analogy is scary. Remember how we all felt that Gore's endorsement cinched the deal?

by Bob Brigham on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 02:13:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Frost vs. Dean (none / 0)

RE: The "Frost Heart Bush" ads. Is that on the web anywhere?
by Jerome Armstrong on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 02:15:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Frost vs. Dean (none / 0)

MyDD can get the world-wide scoop on the exit polls but can't find the Frost Heart Bush ads....

I'll start looking.

If anybody can find it first, Democrats everywhere would appreciate that ad being shared with Democrats anywhere.

by Bob Brigham on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 02:23:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Frost vs. Dean (3.00 / 1)

Somebody needs to get this ad:

Dallas Morning News via Annatopia:

Frost, Sessions both invoke Bush
Each is running ads portraying himself as backing the president

11:29 PM CDT on Tuesday, October 26, 2004

By GROMER JEFFERS JR. / The Dallas Morning News

So who loves President Bush the most?

It's hard to tell if you're watching the TV ads that the candidates are airing in the 32nd Congressional District race.

Both Democrat Martin Frost and Republican Pete Sessions have produced spots that attack the other for being out of touch with the mainstream, while attaching themselves to the president.

 "In the real world, Sessions loves Bush far more," said Southern Methodist University political science professor Cal Jillson. "But in the artificial world, it's not clear."

Mr. Frost - running in a mostly Republican district - is trying to appeal to GOP voters in North Dallas.

Some of his campaign commercials show Mr. Sessions being in opposition to President Bush, while portraying himself as a tough, moderate Democrat.

He uses popular Republicans like Sens. Kay Bailey Hutchison of Texas and John McCain of Arizona to make his point. And one ad even casts fellow Democrat Ted Kennedy in the same liberal boogeyman role as some Republicans do.

[...]

The ad later states: "Martin Frost. Backing President Bush on Keeping America Safe."

Mr. Frost says the ads are effective.

Yeah, real effective. But running ads "backing president bush" while losing the election isn't the type of effectiveness I'm looking for from the DNC.

by Bob Brigham on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 02:43:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

thanks blogswarm (none / 0)

you beat me to it.  

the full article is online here (registration required)

but i must say this was the tip of the iceberg. there were also some very racist ads run on behalf of frost as well.  i'm not sure what organisation created them, but the whole point of the ads was that sessions took a trip to malaysia.  then it mentioned outsourcing of american jobs to malaysia.  perhaps it was the "tone" used to say the word "malaysia" but they may as well have said the n word.  basically, i was left with the impression that the ad was demagoging (sp?) brown people in malaysia.  i know i'm not explaining it very well; it was one of those that you just had to see.  since i don't know who made the ad, i wouldn't even know where to look for it.

Visit us at TexasKAOS, where we're taking Texas back!
by annatopia on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 02:52:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: thanks blogswarm (none / 0)

What was the URL of the Frost website?

Plug it into the Internet(s) way-back machine.

http://www.archive.org/

by Tim Tagaris on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 02:54:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: thanks blogswarm (none / 0)

http://www.martinfrost.com/

but only two entries for 2004 and both too early

by Bob Brigham on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 02:58:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

nope, not online anymore (none / 0)

i tried looking for them a few weeks back when the idea of a frost chairmanship first came up.  frost's entire campaign website has been taken down, and that's where most of the ads were archived.  trust me jerome, they were embarrassing!

i should have transcribed those damned ads when they originally ran.  the best i could find via digging online was a dallas morning news article that had partial transcripts.  i'll see if i can find that link.  BRB.

Visit us at TexasKAOS, where we're taking Texas back!
by annatopia on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 02:45:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

THAT IS THE WORST PART - HE KNOWS BETTER (none / 0)

The ads were taken down because Frost's advisors are ashamed. They are admitting guilt.

Martin Frost got down on their knees for the GOP and he lost and now he's worried he'll lose again if people find out that he has ZERO INTEGRITY.

If we're going to consider Frost to lead Democrats then I think we should see how he portrayed Republicans -- and other Democrats -- in his campaign. This should be a BlogPAC question. Release the ads.

by Bob Brigham on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 02:51:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: THAT IS THE WORST PART - HE KNOWS BETTER (none / 0)

ha, i'd be ahamed if i ran those ads, too.  but then again, i'm a liberal democrat.  martin is a conservative dem. and he has no problem backing bush on major legislation.  apparently he also had no problem doing the "me-too" thing during the campaign.  

and you know what gets me?  this time around, dallas county almost went blue!!!  i mean the dems lost countywide by less than half a percentage point, which was a big gain over last time around.  i truly believe (perhaps incorrectly) that if martin would have run a stronger race as a proud democrat, he could have helped some of the downtickets dems who lost at the county level.  but then that probably would have meant that he would sacrifice himself - after all the district he ran in was GOPland.  but that speaks to his character as well.  he wasn't willing to sacrifice himself for the greater good of the party.

damn, i think i just had a lightbulb moment.  maybe that's what's been bothering me about martin this whole time.

Visit us at TexasKAOS, where we're taking Texas back!
by annatopia on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 03:03:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: THAT IS THE WORST PART - HE KNOWS BETTER (none / 0)

Even if he didn't sacrifice himself, running ads attacking Democrats means he was trying to win at the expense of other Democrats. Not only did he refuse to help the party but he tried to sabotage the party.

Frost lost, other Democrats did worse, and now a whole lot of us will never trust Frost because of his lack of integrity. You're right, it is about character.

by Bob Brigham on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 03:10:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: THAT IS THE WORST PART - HE KNOWS BETTER (none / 0)

Same reason I think Sammy Sosa is the most overrated player in baseball.

Tim

P.S. I seriously still want to know how you knew i got food poisoning from eating taco bell.

by Tim Tagaris on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 03:11:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

LOL (none / 0)

well, whenever i hear about someone getting food poisoning, i assume they've recently eaten at toxic hell.  after all, grade "d" beef is only barely rated for human consumption and that's what TB uses.  i mean, why do you think they can sell all those tacos for 50 cents?
Visit us at TexasKAOS, where we're taking Texas back!
by annatopia on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 03:55:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: LOL (none / 0)

Thank you.

I thought I was going to have to chase you around the corners of the blogosphere to find out.  

I emailed you by the way.  If you got it, please email me back -- I have some other questions for you, about your blog specifically.

Tim

by Tim Tagaris on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 04:06:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: LOL (none / 0)

There's no such thing as "Grade D" beef.  Think about it -- if there were a letter grade system, wouldn't there be an entirely different grade for the inedible stuff?

The USDA deems meats either fit or unfit for human consumption.  The optional grading (Choice, Prime, Select, etc; not letter grades) comes after the meat has already been certified as edible.

(No, I'm not a meat freak.  I heard a similarly suspicious "Grade D" story months ago, checked it out on snopes.com, and found it to be 100% false.)

by blurp on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 06:03:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Need Vision (none / 0)

There are two sides to the DNC chair debate: Who we absolutely DON'T want and who we do.  We don't want someone who's caved on major issues and has no media appeal.  That clearly blocks Roehmer.  

We do want someone who the media likes to talk to.  They love to talk to Dean, but they also love to trash him.  But that might, just might be ameliorated by the fact that on most of things they trashed him for - he was right.  And that certainly won't hurt.  Second, he did have a pretty moderate record in Vermont.  And although he crashed out of the primaries, he also came from nowhere to challenge the big boys.  He was a rookie remember - and his showing wasn't so bad considering that.  

But - if all those assumptions don't hold Rosenbery is clearly smart.

by Samuel H Knight on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 02:26:31 PM EST

Dean is not the end-all (3.00 / 1)

I've just grown a bit concerned that most bloggers seem to think, at least based on postings, etc, that Dean as DNC chair would be the end-all of reform.

I'm not suggesting that any of us would rest after Dean became chair, but it just seems like we have focused too much on this race. I'm not saying it isn't important, I understand it is. But it seems to me that Dean would be better suited for a post like DCCC chair, something more behind the scenes, hand-picking candidates, helping them with money and strategy. DNC chair post is so overt...so getting on TV and doing the talking point he helped write up...so fundraising.....basically, it seems to me it could almost be a waste of his talents. I'm not saying he wouldn't be good, nor am I trying to undermine reform efforts. I believe Fowler & Rosenberg would be excellent reformers and I have confidence in their ability. So why not have Dean doing something more? He could still run again in 08.

None the less, I just want to make sure we all maintain focus and remember the fight for reform of the party is much bigger than Dean or the DNC Chairmanship or anything else. We have to fight for more than just this. That's all I'm saying.

by dorsettty on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 02:33:00 PM EST

Re: Dean is not the end-all (none / 0)

Good points. Reforming the way that campaigns are run, especially at the Presidential level and getting rid of the consultants that do crappy TV ads is on that list.
by Jerome Armstrong on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 02:44:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Dean is not the end-all (none / 0)

amen to that
by dorsettty on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 02:50:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Need new conultants before ridding of old ones (none / 0)

If you want to get rid of media consultants, you have to replace them.

Jerome, somebody like you is perfectly placed to do some media consulting.   You already have a name.   You just have to invest in the equipment and some training.    

by Andmoreagain on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 02:55:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Dems need videographers now. (3.00 / 1)

I'm convinced the way to make serious inroads into rural America is by burying it in DVDs. As deep as AOL buries us in CD-roms now.

We have to get around the M$M and get our video in their hands. Burying them in free DVD video by mail is the way to do it. DVD players have hit market maturity. We can get around the M$M this way.

Matter of fact, I'm so convinced that I'm going down to the local public access cable outfit and starting video classes.

by afs on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 03:15:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Dems need videographers now. (none / 0)

I wanted to do that in the last campaign I worked on.  Instead of traditional direct mail, include a DVD or CD-Rom.

It was VERY expensive for our situation, unfortunately.

Tim

by Tim Tagaris on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 03:20:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Tech costs always drop more than is expected. (none / 0)

The one thing you can count on is that tech costs will be far lower than you ever predict they will be.

Even my grocery store's little video stand has DVD player/recorders for $199 now. DVD players are as low as $30.

Bulk burning of DVDs will be commonplace in two years. No more expensive than any other kind of bulk mailing.

by afs on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 03:28:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tech costs always drop more than is expected. (none / 0)

Absolutely.

DVDs will probably cost a quarter a piece in bulk by 2008, if that.  I already see them in the 99 cent store, so they may be close to that already.  Cut back on TV ads by 10% to pay for them.  Spending a dollar per voter on a DVD (including shipping, production costs, etc.) is probably a dollar very well spent.

by Geotpf on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 04:41:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tech costs always drop more than is expected. (none / 0)

The key is to have good video of the good stuff that happens between now and 2008 so that you're telling a story instead of having a long ad.

Assuming the costs will go down (which they will), every politician should have a digital camera and good quality digital video recorder at every event. And be taking good b-roll in between. It is a small investment to be able to tell a great story.

by Bob Brigham on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 05:11:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tech costs always drop more than is expected. (none / 0)

And my personal preference/soon-to-be pet project: Using that in-between less substantive b-roll on their websites to give a human side/window into the campaign.

Tim

by Tim Tagaris on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 05:16:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

window into the campaign? (none / 0)

That is crazy talk.
by Bob Brigham on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 05:29:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Al Gore wants you (none / 0)

I don't think Gore's TV idea sounds bad at all.   A lot of people thought Air America would never work.
by Andmoreagain on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 03:23:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Actually, I was thinking rapid response DVDs (none / 0)

With stock footage and voiceovers, you could get DVD video out almost as quick as new ads get produced.... and you could make your DVD video as specific as you needed it to be.
by afs on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 03:34:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I had suggested to send Fahrenheit 9/11 to Ohio (none / 0)

I sent Michael Moore this suggestion that DVDs of his film be sent to Ohio swing districts.  I even offered $500 of my own money to fund it but I never got a response back.
Who knows if it would have helped?
by raddude on Thu Jan 06, 2005 at 01:33:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

About Roosevelt (3.00 / 1)

I will be interested to read the book that you are quoting Jerome.  My understanding is that Roosevelt was not considered all that much of a progressive in 1932.  For example, Eleanor Roosevelt famously said that she would have voted for the socialist Norman Thomas if she had not been married to Franklin.

Also, my understanding is that he obtained a great deal of support at the convention from both (1) most big city bosses and (2) many southern seggregationists.

That does not to deny that he had powerful, conservative, opposition.  Smith hated him, which I always thought was one of the great political acts of ingratitude that I ever heard about considering FDR's strong political support for Smith in the 1920s.  Also, powerful newspaper publisher Randolph Hearst led an "isolationist" wing that opposed Roosevetl because the latter was considered a "Wilsonian" believer in international cooperation.  Still, some of the opposition noted in your post disagreed with Roosevelt because they felt he was not progressive enough.  Once can hardly say that these people, like Walter Lippman, was afraid that FDR would bring in too much change.

I say this not to criticize FDR.  He was a great President.  Still, I wonder if the author of "Happy Days Are Hear Again" is straining the facts in order to make his point.

Andy Katz
by Andy Katz on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 03:55:14 PM EST

Re: About Roosevelt (none / 0)

I'm about 1/4 through the book, it's not ideological at all, at least so far. It's all about the mechanics at work in the primary and convention for FDR to win.
by Jerome Armstrong on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 04:07:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: About Roosevelt (none / 0)

OK.  From your original post, I thought maybe one of the points of the book was that Roosevelt was viewed as a "progressive agent for change" (my words) when he ran in '32.

I still am looking forward to reading the book.  Louis Howe is one of my favorite political operatives of all time.  He was a genius.

Andy Katz
by Andy Katz on Wed Jan 05, 2005 at 04:24:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]


You are not logged in.

In order to post a comment, you must be logged in. If you have a member account, please log in to comment.

If not, you can make an account right here. It's quick and free.