ASDC Chair Meeting

by Jerome Armstrong, Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 10:18:26 AM EST

The ASDC is meeting on a conference call this morning to consider the recomendation by the Executive Committee that Fowler be endorsed by the State Chairs. The Chairs will vote up or down on whether to accept the plurality recommendation. I've gotten word on the main backers of Fowler in yesterday's ASDC meeting. They were Mark Brewer (who didn't have a vote), Carol Khare, Amy Burks, Barbara Allen, Ray Buckley, and Merideth Smith.

Here are a few notes related to those individuals. Mark Brewer, is the Party Chair of Michigan, and the President of the ASDC. This past Friday, Brewer was served notice that the DNC will begin an audit of the Presidential finances that were spent during the 2004 Kerry Michigan campaign, managed by Donnie Fowler.  Reportedly, Brewer refused the DNC, so this is developing amidst Brewer's push of Fowler. Also backing Fowler yesterday was Carol Khare, from South Carolina, whom is a business partner of Don Fowler Sr; Amy Burks of Alabama and Barbara Allen of North Carolina are longtime allies of Fowler Sr (It's unclear how Allen was able to vote, not being on the ASDC executive committee); Ray Buckley of New Hampshire (whom is vocally anti-Dean); and Meredith Smith, of Oregon, who voted to back Fowler over Dean.

In the second round of voting, 3 supporters from Frost and Rosenberg (I've gotten conflicting info on who they were) backed Fowler to give him an 8-6 advantage over Dean.

Update: The Chairs and Vice Chairs rejected the recommendation of the Executive Committee to back Fowler. They then did a roll-call vote, which Dean won: 

             The ASDC ballot                    Endorsements
             (state chairs and vice chairs)     (public DNC members)

Dean         56                                 49
Fowler       21                                  9
Frost         5                                 15
Roemer        3                                  4
Rosenberg     3                                  4
Webb          3                                 10
Leyland       0                                  2
Abstain       5
That's 58% for Dean on the first ballot among the 96 ASDC Chairs and Vice Chairs that voted (Hotline); alongside Dean's continued backing within the DNC At-Large Members (and Labor is rumored to be next on board), Dean's in the homestrech and leading all alone.

Update II: The Oregon DNC Member delegation supports Dean for Chair. Blogger & DNC Member Jenny Greenleaf has posted a note about the Oregon delegation on The American Street (PR to follow). This includes Meredith Smith of the ASDC Executive Committee, who is now on board with Dean. That's 5 more votes for Dean.




Tags: Democrats (all tags)

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The plot thickens... (none / 0)


Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.
by Parker on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 10:33:57 AM EST

Donnie did not manage that money (none / 0)

He talked about that earlier this month.  He was the Kerry campaign manager, not in charge of the  coordinated campaign.  In fact it would have been illegal for him to manage that money.  That is the way campaign finance laws work.

Donnie talked about this weeks ago, here at mydd and on his website.  

I know one campaign is moving this around to anyone that will listen. The internet is a great place to spread false oppo research though.

by fightforamerica on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 10:44:13 AM EST

Hmmm... (none / 0)

So Little Donnie has baggage after all...
Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.
by Parker on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 10:45:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hmmm... (none / 0)

I can think of more than 45 million reasons that it is laughable for Dean supporters to talk about fiscal mismanagement.
by fightforamerica on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 03:32:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

why would someone who fixes a vote not break the l (none / 0)

Gosh, illegal.  No one would ever do something ILLEGAL, would they?  Especially not a former lobbyist who lies about being a lobbyist/grassroots reformer and fixes votes.
by CentrismIsForLosers on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 11:05:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Donnie did not manage that money (none / 0)

As I understand it (this is from a campaign staffer with good connections in the MI party), the problem is that the MI campaign went $1,000,000 over budget. And most of THAT can be attributed to one problem--the fact that 18 GOTV vans--vans that fell under Fowler's management--disappearaed. Kappoof! 18 vans, and $1,000,000 of our money. There are also totally unsubstantiated rumors that at least one staffer took a junket to Paris on our campaign money.

All while I was working my ass off here in MI.

by emptywheel on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 01:08:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

18 vans?? (none / 0)

ok, that's bad.  did they ever turn up or are they still missing?  i guess they're missing if yall got bill a million bucks.

ouch, someone should lose their job over that one.

Visit us at TexasKAOS, where we're taking Texas back!
by annatopia on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 02:16:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Donnie did not manage that money (none / 0)

Can you provide a source for that claim? I'm not saying I don't believe you, but a google search didn't reveal anything...
Future Majority / Young Philly Politics
by Alex Urevick on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 02:22:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Donnie did not manage that money (none / 0)

I heard it from someone who has close connections in the MI party. As I understand it, national media is beginning to research the story, but most everyone here in MI is not talking.
by emptywheel on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 04:07:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Donnie did not manage that money (none / 0)

ohhhh let's get the drudge red light going!!!!

developing.......

by fightforamerica on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 06:22:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Google knows all (none / 0)

And Google knows nothing about this.  I smell bullshit.
by Geotpf on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 09:38:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Google knows all (none / 0)

Now Google is catching up.
by emptywheel on Tue Feb 01, 2005 at 11:29:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Donnie did not manage that money (none / 0)

i bet they drove it to paris, too.

the internet is a great place to spread false stories.

by fightforamerica on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 02:39:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Donnie did not manage that money (3.00 / 1)

They were stolen by God, Gays and Guns republicans....The SBVFT coordinated the robbery and they were used to bring the pre-marked Bush ballots to Florida and Ohio.
http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 04:04:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Question For Matt Stoller (none / 0)

Matt,

Please enlighted us on who you think will endorse Simon Rosenberg this week.

What's going on with Rosenberg and the ASDC ... do they perceive Simon as too much inside the beltway and not enough outside the beltway in the states?

Are you content to let Donnie Fowler do an early flameout?

Simon is an inside the beltway guy ... who you going to get to come to your 1/31/05 fundraiser in DC?

Answer the questions or I am going to keep coming at you.

Democratic Dad

Democratic Dad

by Democratic Dad on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 10:49:12 AM EST

Re: Question For Matt Stoller (none / 0)

DD,

I'll see what I can find out.  Everything's moving very fast.

by Matt Stoller on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 11:01:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Question For Matt Stoller (none / 0)

Thanks. We will be waiting!
by Democratic Dad on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 11:03:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Question For Matt Stoller (none / 0)

My hunch is that the ABDs will move to Rosenberg. The labor endorsement will be very interesting.
by Gary Boatwright on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 02:05:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Amazing! (none / 0)

A bunch of politicians playing politics!  Who woulda believed?  Seriously, I find this report very disappointing.  I had been giving the DNC the benefit of the doubt - assuming they would try very hard to pick the person best qualified to reorganize the party to compete in the 21st century.  But, politicians will be politicians.
by Sacramentohop on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 10:49:27 AM EST

Impatient NY'er wants to know... (none / 0)

What time is the conference call at, and any idea of when we'll know what they're going to do?

I had expected all this backroom maneuvering to be coming from Frost, not Fowler. Personally, I don't like the way this smells.

by sneemteam on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 10:54:13 AM EST

Simon Rosenberg's 1/31/05 Comments On ASDC (none / 0)

Friends ... looks like Simon is the netroots champion here.

See the latest message to his supporters.

**********
Statement from Simon Rosenberg, January 31, 2005:

"I am pleased to have had the opportunity to present my record and my vision for the Party to the executive committee of the ASDC this weekend.  Throughout this campaign, I have been encouraged by the depth and thoughtfulness of the conversation DNC members are holding about the future of our Party.

It is clear today that the recommendation of the ASDC was achieved with only a plurality, but not a majority of committee members.  With a majority of the committee - 11 of the 19 - voting against the eventual recommendation or abstaining from the final vote, it is clear that there is no consensus candidate of the chairs at this time.

As such, while I have great admiration and respect for the executive committee, I hope that the broader group of state chairs voting today will vote against their recommendation and instead recommend an open process where all 447 voting members of the DNC will have the chance to choose on February 12th from the 7 strong candidates who are running.

I plan to fight on for the leadership of the Party I love.  I believe I am the Party's best choice for DNC chair, the only candidate who has the complete package for what we need today - chief executive experience, a history of winning in the red states, deep understanding of the new media tools of 21st century politics, a strong connection to the emerging grassroots/netroots culture so critical to our future, and the capacity and relationships to bring our diverse Party together so we can fight and win in all fifty state and six territories each and every day.  I look forward to continuing to make my case to the vast majority of DNC members who have not yet decided their vote."

by Democratic Dad on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 10:58:05 AM EST

Re: Simon Rosenberg's 1/31/05 Comments On ASDC (none / 0)

Did I miss something or did ...Rosenberg get ONE vote.
Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.
by Parker on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 11:05:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Simon Rosenberg's 1/31/05 Comments On ASDC (none / 0)

I give Rosenberg a lot of credit for running a straightforward campaign and not bashing his opponents. I missed the basis for your conclusion that Rosenberg is the netroots champion. Why do you think he has an edge on Dean as far as netroot issues go?
by Gary Boatwright on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 02:08:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

"plurality" (none / 0)

Let's be honest here... I'm a Dean backer, but Fowler did get a majority, when all was said and done.  A majority of people on the committee prefer Fowler to Dean, period.  There's no getting around it... not a plurality.  It's correct to say that Dean has a plurality of the votes when it comes to "first-choice".  However, when the question is asked, "Who do you prefer?  Fowler or Dean?"  A MAJORITY (and I hate all-caps) prefer Fowler.  Fowler, in no way, shape, or form... has a plurality of votes.

NCDem

Invest in nature
by NCDem on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 11:04:04 AM EST

Re: "plurality" (none / 0)

It was an anti-Dean second vote.
Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.
by Parker on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 11:06:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "plurality" (none / 0)

Yes, but a rose by any other name is still a rose.

I'm not fan of Fowler either, but the fact is he did get a majority of the votes cast.

by DemDog on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 11:14:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "plurality" (none / 0)

Well...but... Rosenberg's note says that there were 19 voting members. Fowler ended up with 8 votes on the second tally. That is not a majority of the total possible voting members, merely a plurality. Yes, he got the recommendation but that is hardly overwhelming and my expectation is that it will be rejected by the larger ASDC... that instead they will do their own individual state by state and perhaps even person by person endorsements. Dean already has some of these people so we know it's not a lock for Fowler.
The 10,000 Things
by Andrew C White on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 11:36:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "plurality" (none / 0)

Now this new definition that you're trying to push is just silly.  It's useless to talk about a majority of "total possible voting members".  This means zilch, nada, nothing.  Given your definition, no member of congress, senate, state house representative,  state senators, president, city council member, dog catcher in the history of voting has ever received a majority total possible voting members.  When we talk about a "majority"... we talk about a majority of votes.  period.  So yes, you're technically correct.  

"Donnie Fowler didn't get a majority of the possible votes if everyone had bothered to vote so it's technically a plurality of the possible votes because everyone didn't vote."  What a useless definition.  At this point, we're getting a bit ridiculous.  

Donnie Fowler got a majority of the votes.  period, and if the trend continues and people abstain, he's still going to get a majority of the votes and be running the DNC, much to my dismay.  

Invest in nature
by NCDem on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 12:02:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "plurality" (none / 0)

uh... ok.
The 10,000 Things
by Andrew C White on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 12:11:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "plurality" (none / 0)

You are kidding right. If this report is accurate, you must be. Plurality or not, it's sounding shady about how he got his majority. This should bother you. There is a thing called conflict of interest (again assuming the info is correct above).  At the very least some of these people shouldn't have been voting or abstained based on the potential for self dealing.
by bruh21 on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 11:10:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "plurality" (none / 0)

No, I am not "kidding", and considering the unfair thrashing MyDD received about supposed "conflicts of interest" and "shady dealings" with the real plurality candidate (Dean)... I am going to reserve judgement on the "Fowler Democrats", and acknowledge that there is a significant anti-Dean movement out there, and it manifested itself in this committee's vote... There's nothing more to it than that... nothing shady until proven otherwise.  

n

Invest in nature
by NCDem on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 11:16:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "plurality" (none / 0)

8 votes out of 19 votes are supposedly representative of the entire ASDC.

So these eight votes are to tell over ONE HUNDRED members that they should voter for Fowler.... something is not quite right.

Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.
by Parker on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 11:25:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "plurality" (none / 0)

I made it clear in my post that we don't know if the report by the diarist above is true. This is what my making the "assuming" phrase means. I also stated that no one can credibly look at this situation and say what you just posted which is what I was responding to- what you posted which seemed to ignore the parts that bothered you. Someone truly objective wouldn't ignore the report. The legitimate response would be to say let's find out.  

This is what objective people do- they hear a report and they find out if it is true. They don't say I heard a report, and I am going to assume it is not true. They don't say you are kidding yourself or let's call it for Fowler because he got a majority, not a plurality.

by bruh21 on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 11:34:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "plurality" (none / 0)

If you re-read my initial post above... It described the definition of a plurality, and the definition of a majority, and the fact that Dean, technically, is the plurality candidate, and Fowler, technically, is the majority candidate... nothing more

to which you replied, "Are you kidding?"...

which doesn't make sense, so I replied, "No".

Then I went on to address your change of subject... (no longer talking about grammar)...
which I obviously didn't address to your satisfaction.

so I shall address that again, now by saying the following...  

I agree with you 100 percent.

Invest in nature
by NCDem on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 11:44:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "plurality" (none / 0)

it's not a change of subject to talk about the main thrust of the diary versus you getting hung up on the word plurality.
by bruh21 on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 12:30:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "plurality" (none / 0)

plus... this was mostly just a continuation of my nit-picking Jerome's word-choice (though I think his word-choice was a deliberate misuse this time) and not much more than that.
Invest in nature
by NCDem on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 11:21:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "plurality" (none / 0)

Jerome did not say it Rosenberg did
Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.
by Parker on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 11:27:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "plurality" (none / 0)

Then Rosenberg doesn't understand the definition of a plurality either.
Invest in nature
by NCDem on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 11:49:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "plurality" (none / 0)

I dunno. I read this is standad everyday politics. Of course these people have past relationships with each other. That's a given. Especially when you consider Fowler Sr. was DNC Chair in the past. That part always makes me laugh when Donnie Jr tries to make himself to be the "outsider" and "grassroots" guy. Silly wabbit.

While i am disappointed that Fowler ended up with the recommendation, I don't really think this amounts to much. Nor do I think there was anything nefarious going on here. This is simply how inner circle politics works. People make deals and they tend to stick with people they've had good working relationships with in the past.

I expect the larger ASDC to reject the recommendation and endorsements and votes will therefore come to the candidates on a state by state and person by person basis. I've got no problem with that. It's what I've expected all along. You aren't going to get all 50 state parties to agree on one guy.

The 10,000 Things
by Andrew C White on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 11:44:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "plurality" (none / 0)


Well, it was a plurality of the 19 on the executive committee, and a majority of those who actually voted.
by spandrel on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 11:24:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

asdf (none / 0)

"A MAJORITY (and I hate all-caps) prefer Fowler. "

Of those who voted, yes. I do find it interesting how many abstentions there were. Is that normal, does anyone know?

Before you win, you have to fight. Come fight along with us at TexasKaos.
by boadicea on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 12:21:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Can I ask a question? (none / 0)

Why did it have to go to a second vote? Dean won the first round by 1 vote. So why did it have to go to a second vote, and why is winning by two votes better than winning by one vote? Isn't winning winning...was it a standard procedure, or did something funny happen here?

Does anybody know anything about how this would, or should, work?

by sneemteam on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 11:21:13 AM EST

Re: Can I ask a question? (none / 0)

Standard procedure.  It's the way the DNC Member vote in February works as well, and the process (complete with an executive committee evaluation) was laid out a while back.  My guess is though that the entire membership will have its say.
by Yellow Dog on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 11:33:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Fowler?!? (3.00 / 1)

Fowler is the top choice of a majority of this ASDC committee?  Wow - we have more foolish people running the state parties than I first perceived.  Granted, I've only seen the guy speak a few times - but that's all I needed to see to recognize this guy lacks self-confidence and any ability to get folks riled up and ready to fight the Republicans.  The string of lame asses representing the party may continue .... good God.
by ZennedJim on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 11:28:11 AM EST

David and Goliath (3.00 / 1)

Why was I suprised? Again.

I live in the DC area and know lots of party faithful.  These folks were dead against Dean pre pre-Iowa.  They didn't think that Dean could win and they wanted to win bad.  I remember being shocked how vehemently against Dean they were--I had been on DFA for months and was head over heels in love with guy and thrilled with his position in the polls.  But here in the DC burbs the hardcore Deomocrats were not on board.

I can't prove it but I believe our Democratic Party, assisted covertly by the DNC, took a formal action in Iowa recruiting longtime Dems like the firefighters et al, and spread the word to drop Dean.  Folks were mobilized by our own party against our candidate.  I very much believe that the Democratic Party turned on Dean in Iowa and then the scream just sealed the deal.  

This action was a breach of faith and did not honor the rules of party primaries.  Back room politics is one thing but to actively organize against a candidate is quite another.  Why am I suprised?  Dean probably wasn't the first candidate to be brought down by party faithful.

Why am I suprised that that same party is still threatened by Dean?  They went after Dean and won and now he is back wanting to take over the very institution that brought him down.  It is a brillant move on Dean's part.  

Why am I suprised that the party faithful will do whatever it takes?  This isn't just Mrs. Clinton or any one faction, this is deep institutional thinking on the part of the DNC.  They don't want change and they don't want to lose power and control.  Dean is a huge threat.

Now what the hell are we going to do?

Dean for DNC Chair

by aiko on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 11:34:44 AM EST

Re: David and Goliath (1.00 / 9)

Aiko ... may I suggest that you and fellow Dinos all move to Vermont and vote to become AmeriCaNean ... American/Canadian/Dean.

I really think you should have said Dean & Goliath or Dean vs Normal Democratic Middle Americans.

Go to AmeriCaNean and you can then worship HD all you want and eat all the Ben & Jerry's ice cream you can.

by Democratic Dad on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 11:43:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: David and Goliath (none / 0)

Look jackass...you are the one who just stated that the leadership and the unions have already cobined forces to derail Dean...so go jump in a lake and take your weak ass dems with you.
Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.
by Parker on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 11:45:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: David and Goliath (3.00 / 1)

For someone who posts as a dad, you sound amazingly like my (presently) obnoxious 16 year old.

I don't think it was necessary to react like that.

by sneemteam on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 11:47:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: David and Goliath (3.00 / 0)

May I suggest, Demcoratic Dad, that you cool yer jets some or perhaps stick a non-Ben & Jerry's Ice Cream cone in yer ear.

There was no call for the rude and hostile nature of your post to aiko. Give it a rest.

The 10,000 Things
by Andrew C White on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 11:49:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Normal Democratic Middle America (none / 0)

tray.com :
31 contributions from individuals given to THE NEW DEMOCRAT NETWORK - PAC (NDN PAC)for election cycle '04

tray.com :

3295 contributions from individuals given to DEMOCRACY FOR AMERICAfor election cycle '04

What normal middle Americans are you refering to?...the ones that can contribute over ten thousand dollars like the majority of the 31 individuals who gave to the NDN or the 100 bucks that were given by nearly 4000 people to DFA.

Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.
by Parker on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 11:51:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: David and Goliath (none / 0)

did I hit a little too close to home?
by aiko on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 11:51:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: David and Goliath (none / 0)

you were practically sitting on his lap...
Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.
by Parker on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 11:57:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: David and Goliath (none / 0)

Listen Pops,

Before you further alienate more people, you might go over to opensecrets.org and look at where the $$$$ comes to support this little party of yours.

And then look at where Dean's strength is.

There are people in California and New York are tired of being the personal ATMs for a party who basically thinks that win only tactics and not leadership.  

If you are going to blow off activist Dems like me who have actually worked inside the party for 13 years, fine.  

But your message above, truly says what Rosenberg is all about.

And while I was willing to say for a while that I would be happy with Simon as compromise candidate, your message has finally pointed up the folly of compromising with people more interested than maintaining power than getting Democrats elected.

by nanorich on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 11:57:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

How about some bread pudding? (none / 0)

Bailey's Irish Cream Bread Pudding

4 1/2     slices French bread, thick,
        cut into 1 inch cubes
2     tablespoons butter
1     teaspoon vanilla extract
1     cup scalded milk
1     pinch ground nutmeg
4     eggs, beaten
1     tablespoon dark brown sugar
1/2     cup white sugar
1/2     cup raisins
1     cup Bailey's Irish Cream

6 servings

   1. Preheat oven to 300 degrees.
   2. Butter one 2-quart casserole dish.
   3. Prepare a water bath for the 2-quart casserole dish by placing a larger dish with water in the oven.
   4. Place bread cubes in the 2-quart casserole dish.
   5. Beat together the eggs, sugar, and vanilla.
   6. Slowly add the scalded milk and Bailey's Irish Cream.
   7. Pour over the bread.
   8. Sprinkle with brown sugar, nutmeg, and raisins.
   9. Place the casserole in the water bath and bake for 50 to 60 minutes or until a knife inserted in the middle comes out clean.
  10. Server either hot or chilled.
  11. When You take the pudding out of the oven, if the pudding seems to be dry, sprinkle some Bailey's over the top to help make it moist.

Before you win, you have to fight. Come fight along with us at TexasKaos.
by boadicea on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 12:16:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

enough with your name calling, DD (none / 0)

democratic dad, i am giving you a zero and hoping someone else will come along and zero your post out.  why?  because you're acting like a jerk, calling everyone who doesn't agree with you a DINO, and you're generally just flaming anyone without contributing anything useful to this thread.
Visit us at TexasKAOS, where we're taking Texas back!
by annatopia on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 02:25:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: enough with your name calling, DD (none / 0)

How do you give a "zero rating"?
Future Majority / Young Philly Politics
by Alex Urevick on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 02:28:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

not entirely sure.... (none / 0)

IIRC, jerome grandfathered a few acccounts after the scoop migration.  i think only a few folks have the ability to zero (or hide) a comment.  somehow i ended up on that list, and i rarely use it, but in this case felt it was neccessary.
Visit us at TexasKAOS, where we're taking Texas back!
by annatopia on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 02:35:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: not entirely sure.... (none / 0)

Wow. What power!

I'll make sure never to get on your nerves! Please remember that any Texas jokes I make are just jokes!
;)

Future Majority / Young Philly Politics
by Alex Urevick on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 02:51:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

LOL! (none / 0)

no worries, i make fun of texans all the time. after all, i'm not a native.  i was born and raised in central florida, and still consider myself a floridian.

but after living here for... oh geez, 14 years... i guess i can also claim the mantle of "texan".

Visit us at TexasKAOS, where we're taking Texas back!
by annatopia on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 03:27:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: David and Goliath (3.00 / 1)

I would far from call myself a Deaniac (even if I am supporting him for DNC chair), but that kind of thing is as bad as the America, LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT crap the God, Gays and Guns GOP are spouting.  He likes his guy, you like yours.  Last I checked, we live in America and have the right to choose and say how much we like a candidate.
http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 04:23:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Jerome... any word on who... (none / 0)

Herman Farrell voted for?
The 10,000 Things
by Andrew C White on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 11:37:33 AM EST

Re: Jerome... any word on who... (none / 0)

Good question.  A follow-up: we know that Brewer abstained because there wasn't a tie.  Do we know who else abstained?
by Yellow Dog on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 11:39:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

One of the reasons I am no longer active (3.00 / 3)

in institutional Democratic Party activism is because I have seen this kind of gaming over and over again in order to keep the power base in power.  From the district committees on up, if you aren't part of the club, you are fresh out of luck.

In reading through the various comments, I can't help but think if these guys spent half the time, a quarter of the energy, and one tenth the creativity they spend trying to stop Dean on fighting the Republicans, we would have senate and the house back, as well as the presidency.

Happily these machinations do turn off even the most entrenched of party activists who know this inside baseball crap for what it is, but just for the record....yesterday's little power play was transparent, and those of you who actually support Fowler will be surprised at what is actually occurring.  

As a matter of fact, you will know the feeling of what is like to be mugged....but don't know when it happened, or who did it to you.

by nanorich on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 11:47:41 AM EST

Re: One of the reasons I am no longer active (none / 0)

You just wrote the core truth for some of us out here. Yeah, we know this is politics, and things happen like this, but when a party is losing, you would think they would be willing to maybe change up its approach a little bit.
by bruh21 on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 12:35:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: One of the reasons I am no longer active (3.00 / 1)

No the party isn't designed to change.  In fact it is designed to keep people out.

If you look on the state, national or local level you will find rampant nepotism.  It is more about blood and money than committment or passion.

Fowler is a good example of that but the list is long.

I think Dean's staying power can be directly attributed to the net and the newness of this technology as an organizing tool.  It also fortunately or unfortunately speaks to the money on the net.

This is a once in a lifetime shot to get a progressive in a positon of serious power. I have watched progressives fall all my life.  Its my nature to support the underdog.  But this time feels different.  

12 days to go--what will they throw at him next?

by aiko on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 12:47:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: One of the reasons I am no longer active (1.00 / 1)

What will they throw next at him (Dean)

Good question ... one thing that ain't going to get alot of 'throwing' after 2/12/05 if Dean is at the DNC is some serious folding money.

THAT IS certainly sure ... the folding kind of money from PACS & Corporations.

Do you think the BigBusiness/BigGoverment cartel with the likes of Boeing, Pfizer, Big Sugar, Ford, BP Amoco, etc. are going to be running over to the DNC with Dean there? Hell no.

Rove must be grinning like heck if Dean gets into the DNC ... he along with I then can place some advanced bets in Las Vegas that there will be another Republican elected in 2008.

by Democratic Dad on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 01:00:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What's that distinctive aroma? (none / 0)

See, I'm getting a Freeper smell off of Dizzy, here.

Those corps haven't been overly generous with Dem candidates. And they will follow the power.

I don't think Daddy's raising DLC, I think he's raising little Freeplings.

Before you win, you have to fight. Come fight along with us at TexasKaos.
by boadicea on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 01:07:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What's that distinctive aroma? (none / 0)

Eau de Troll.

His insults and use of Gingrichian language kind of were a hint all wasn't what it seamed.

That is thing about this guys, they can only keep the pretense going for a short time, before they revert to type.

by nanorich on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 01:19:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

GOP spin on Dean is reverse pychology (3.00 / 1)

I find the GOP spin on Dean interesting.  If they really wanted him as chair they would be mum on the subject and bash another.

I think that Dean scares the Republicans because we are as passionate about our candidate and the power of the net as they are about their church.

However in our party you don't have to recognize jesus as the messiah in order to be a member.

by aiko on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 01:12:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

DD, with all due respect.... (none / 0)

....you don't know anything about dean if you think he can't get money from corporations.  were you a bit more familiar with his record, you would know that he ran a very business-friendly vermont.

in addition, those corporate donations aren't worth what they used to be.  you've heard of mccain-fiengold right?  you know, the bill that banned all that corporate soft money you speak of so lovingly?  see, when the ban was instituted, the corporations turned to 527s and such.  as i hope you know, money flowed like water to those groups this last time around.  what in the world is going to stop them from donating to PACs if dean becomes dnc chair?  that's right: NOTHING.

so what is your point anyway?  you are just so determined to diss dean that you aren't getting yoru facts straight, brother.

Visit us at TexasKAOS, where we're taking Texas back!
by annatopia on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 02:13:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: DD, with all due respect.... (3.00 / 1)

anna,

Have you noticed the most heavy handed attacks on Dean (and his supporters) are by those who seem to willfully ignorant about him and his record?  It is really puzzling, because common sense would suggest that more you disagree with someone, the more you should actually actually know about them.

It would seem those who should be relatively sophicated about the process and the people involved would not make themselves look so foolish as to buy into the disinformation tactics of those who deliberately lie about or distort out of recognition where a candidate actually stands.

Dean has the most well thought and coherent plan for long term reform of our party.  Do these guys know about it?  Nope, they are too busy defending a status quo which has eroded our party to historically the worst position in the last fifty years.

And they want to tell us the gimmicks they came up with 15 years ago will work if we give them another decade or so?

Nope, sorry.  

by nanorich on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 02:48:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: DD, with all due respect.... (none / 0)

DD is a rosenberg supporter and i respect him for that.  but man, that attack on dean was just based on, well, nothing, as you pointed out.

and yea, i've heard the lies repeated by his opponents.  it's unfortunate that they seem to have bought into the media and GOP spin about dean.  but the bottom line is that i hope we can all work together when this is all over and done with.  f12 can't come soon enough for me.  

Visit us at TexasKAOS, where we're taking Texas back!
by annatopia on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 03:30:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Until today (none / 0)

Rosenberg was my second choice.

However, DD cured me of all that.

I rarely let a supporter's misbehavior steer me away from one candidate or another, however Rosenberg's background with the DLC has seriously bothered me.

Fact: Dean was a DLC poster boy until he broke ranks with From on the run up to the war.  After that, and with his success, the nature of the campaign against Dean took months for me get over. Clearly, the heirarchical nature of From's little kingdom tolerates no dissent.  

However, when unnamed operatives were quoted to say that those who endorsed Dean in 2004 would be punished and never work on "K Street" again, I learned a thing or two about the DLC, and frankly unless Rosenberg further distances himself From and his minions, I will have serious problems trusting him.

by nanorich on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 03:45:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

rosenberg. (none / 0)

take this for what it's worth, but i have been receiving emails from folks all over the country regarding the dnc chair race.  the ones that interest me the most are about rosenberg.  i'm not kidding when i say that people across the country - people who've worked with their local parties - are singing his praises.  honestly, with the exception of the dlc stuff being pushed on the blogs, i have yet to hear one bad word about simon.

and i'll say this as well.  i emailed simon after our blogpac call, and he was considerate enough to email me back.  it amazed me that someone as busy as he is would take the time to reach out to a "lowly" blogger.  and the issue i addressed was serious: his seeming support for the war.  my email was worded pretty strongly and he didn't shy away; in fact he was very gracious.

honestly, i can't think of a bad word to say about simon, and it appears to me that he's made a clean break from the from faction as well.  of course, this is coming from someone who's only been very involved for two and a half years, so there may be some history i don't know.  but for whatever it's worth, i wanted to chime in with my two cents.

Visit us at TexasKAOS, where we're taking Texas back!
by annatopia on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 04:40:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The corporate money has dropped off anyways (none / 0)

The thugs are in such control that the corporations no longer feel the need to spread the love on this side of the isle.  Besides, the really big sums are now BANNED under McCain/Feingold.  Used to be you could write a check for ten million dollars to the DNC.  Now, it's limited to $25,000.  So Dean's success amougnst the smaller donor is what we need to cultivate.
by Geotpf on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 09:30:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Wish I could find my copy of Good Omens (none / 0)

(Terry Pratchett/Neil Gaiman)...

At one point, they wrote something to the effect that...

At some point, institutions forget about the purpose for which they were instituted to accomplish, and instead become all about maintaining their existence/power.

Pratchett and Gaiman said it more humorously (and more eloquently) but watching this nonsense only proves the essential truth.

Oy.

by renska on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 10:10:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

check this out (none / 0)

http://algoresupportcenter.com/endorsement.html

a site that tells folks how to come to mydd and dialy kos and others and blog in support of fowler.....

by aiko on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 12:14:32 PM EST

The results are in.. (none / 0)

Dean's won the ASDC ballot (state chairs and vice chairs)

Dean 56

Fowler 21

Frost 5

Roemer 3

Rosenberg 3

Webb 3

Leyland 0

Abstain 5

by nanorich on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 12:15:20 PM EST

Re: The results are in.. (none / 0)

wow... looks like we've got a 2 man race on our hands folks...
by Bart Carter on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 12:17:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The results are in.. (none / 0)

Excellent!
Before you win, you have to fight. Come fight along with us at TexasKaos.
by boadicea on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 12:17:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

YEEEAAAAARRRRGGGGG!!!!! (none / 0)

Tell me more!!!!
Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.
by Parker on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 12:20:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The results are in.. (none / 0)

Any word on who voted for who yet?

I agree Bart, this really does look like it's come down to two.

by Yellow Dog on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 12:23:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The results are in.. (none / 0)

how Dean has 50 votes already in the pot this brings him over 100 and Fowler at about 35.
Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.
by Parker on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 12:25:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The results are in.. (none / 0)

so Dean's almost at 25%?
by Bart Carter on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 12:51:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The results are in.. (none / 0)

Which two is an open question.
by nanorich on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 12:30:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Dean wins ASDC on first ballot! (none / 0)

Just received word of the (unconfirmed) complete ASDC ballot (state chairs and vice chairs):

Dean 56

Fowler 21

Frost 5

Roemer 3

Rosenberg 3

Webb 3

Leyland 0

Abstain 5

by Chris Andersen on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 12:17:02 PM EST

Jinx! (none / 0)


by Chris Andersen on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 12:17:20 PM EST

Re: Jinx! (none / 0)

It bears repeating....

again and again.

by nanorich on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 12:21:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

BTW (3.00 / 3)

Since I haven't seen it mentioned re: the Exec vote earlier...that fix was in early. Around 3pm on Sat. word had gotten out that the Exec was trying to arrange a vote to put Fowler in. This wasn't a situation where they held a standard vote and it just turned to go the way it did. They conviened to get a desired result.

There was a lot of scrambling between 3-5pm as various state chairs were exploding at their exec for doing this at all.

by ElitistJohn on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 12:29:04 PM EST

Re: BTW (none / 0)


Right... that's what it smelled like. This is why the 24-hour media cycle is dangerous -- we get all worked up at every twist and turn.

Imagine if there had been this many flies on the wall in the 'smoke-filled rooms' of yesteryear.

REMEMBER: Decisions made by small, elite groups of party activists aren't ALWAYS bad (think RFK, or FDR picking Truman)...so as we do our Democratic duty and keep them honest, let's keep some perspective.

Anyone who works hard for the party gets a stake.
The smoke-filled room of this century is big enough for the netroots.

by CT Lex on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 12:41:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BTW (none / 0)

Yea but because of yesterday Fowler is now alone in second place, a strong second.

That was not a forgone conclusion by any stretch.

Their actions helped their candidate big time.

by aiko on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 12:54:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BTW (none / 0)

It is about time to see if Rosenberg is actually going to make a move, if he actually has one.

That Fowler would get less than half the votes of Dean is a repudiation of the exective board machinations, and makes me suspect that that "Toto, I don't think we aren't in Iowa" anymore.

by nanorich on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 01:09:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm not so sure. (none / 0)

Sounds like there's some blowback as well.

Old Schools are looking more and more desperate to slow down the rising tide of change.

When Frosty didn't get any traction from the Regionals, they put their eggs in Fowler's basket.

They're really afraid of Dean and of Rosenberg, is my read here.

Up till this little ploy, I thought that Dean, Rosenberg, and Fowler were the three candidates that would allow me to feel comfortable registering as a Democrat again. (I've been independent and disgusted since the mid-90s.)

It's looking like that list is down to two, however.

Before you win, you have to fight. Come fight along with us at TexasKaos.
by boadicea on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 01:22:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm not so sure. (none / 0)

I think this vote shows clearly that Dean and his organization where able to respond to this situation in a short time, and short circuit it immediately.  That is a huge deal, and makes me suspect that the Dean bench is deep, skilled, and able to deliver.

That is not to say there aren't other little traps in ABD bag of tricks, but this does illustration, on a micro basis that the DNC voters are not a rubber stamp for anyone one.

I am mildly encouraged, and see this a dry run for the main event.

by nanorich on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 01:58:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

So (3.00 / 1)

Will Donnie be issuing another blaring press release?

I can see the headline now:

WE'RE NUMBER TWO!
ASDC Rejects Executive Committee's Recommendation to Endorse Donnie Fowler

by KimPossible on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 12:44:38 PM EST

Re: So (none / 0)

it's clearly a 2 man race now.. Be careful not to put the cart before the horse.. Remember December 2004: "Dean is the Inevitable Democratic Nominee"..  It's anyone's game..  Watch out for Webb coming out of the backfield..
by Bart Carter on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 12:56:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So (none / 0)

I never said that Dean was unstoppable or the decision was inevitable.  My comment was more directed at how Donnie exploited the Executive Committee's decision by implying that his candidacy was unstoppable....
by KimPossible on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 01:09:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So (none / 0)

Um, if you're campaigning for something, aren't you supposed to put a good foot forward and get the good word out effectively? Aren't you supposed to promote yourself?

And I think the next press release headline is one on which everyone here can agree:

ASDC CHAIRS SEND CLEAR MESSAGE FOR CHANGE

"into your illusion, i make my intrusion"
by fng on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 02:06:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So (none / 0)

The vote for change is correct - but ASDC is only endorsing one candidate and is now firmly behind Howard Dean.
by KimPossible on Tue Feb 01, 2005 at 09:49:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So (none / 0)

I'm leary of "firmly" at this point. 58% is a great number, but not endgame.

All of the candidates that are still in are going to be working uncommitted members and even some of the committed votes for a 'second choice' strategy.

Also, given the switch from the Exec to the full body vote, I'm not sure the full ASDC will vote en masse even on a first ballot.

"into your illusion, i make my intrusion"
by fng on Tue Feb 01, 2005 at 10:22:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

It's over! (none / 0)

Dean won. The other candidates should step aside.
by abc on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 01:09:55 PM EST

Re: It's over! (none / 0)

All of the members of the ASDC will support Dean now.
by abc on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 01:13:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's over! (none / 0)

Where have I heard that before? Hmmm. Do you want to make a bet?
Future Majority / Young Philly Politics
by Alex Urevick on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 01:13:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's over! (none / 0)

Just watch
by abc on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 01:27:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's over! (none / 0)

OK. I understand your enthusiasm, but why not put some money on that. And since you're so confident I'm sure you'll give me some sort of point spread...
Future Majority / Young Philly Politics
by Alex Urevick on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 01:32:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

A "Carpe Dean" Moment for Dems (3.00 / 6)

Clean, Plentiful Dollars - Dean has tapped into a force that is one of three forces that can save America from itself.  It is  - not just grass roots activism, but - grass roots money.  It's the cleanest money around, and when Kerry picked up on it, we beat out Bush in terms of $$.  Much of that funding was generated by Bush, but if Democrats only believe in themselves, and I don't know anyone that has shown that they believe in themselves as much in the past 12 months as Howard Dean, they can keep that money flowing.  The wrong DNC chair can see fritter this movement away.

Messaging - Dean has also proven that he knows that being "passive" in forming your message doesn't work.  A two-hour focus group will steer you towards mush because it leaves the element of pursuasion out.  (Bush/ Rove/ Gingrich/ Reagan/ Deaver have known this as well.) Cordinated messaging -- requiring levels of cooperation and repetition when you're the opposition that are unprecidented for Democrats -- changes the results of those focus groups.  Howard understand this well enought to have put together a training DVD on values and messaging for the Democracy for America (DFA) meetups.  Dems, who apply real values to their approach to government, even have a natural advantage here.  (It is gratifying to hear of a "war room" among congressional Dems...)

Navigating the Political Winds - The country hasn't moved to the Right.  The media, and public discourse have been creeping to the right, but that's not hearts of the public.  If you need proof, the country clearly rejects the Right's approach to its own strength, National Security!  Having Americans focus on "traditional strengths" of the right is different from favoring the right's policies.  The country has simply been baraged by solid messaging and conviction from the Right, and deer-in-the-headlights behavior (except for post-election actions such as the blessed Conyers/Boxer revolution) from the Left since mid-2002.  Can you see the dynamics here?

Dean the Man - Dean is not a radical left wing person, and it's disparaging to hear DNC candidates such as Martin Frost this morning on WNYC turn to personal destruction techniques by suggesting that he's unpredictable.  (On the contrary, he's been damned solid these past two years.)  For that matter, Dean has shown that he wants to guide elected officials into Exhibiting the Leadership.  If you listen to him, he knows if it were to remain up to any DNC chair to be the lone voice of the Party, we'd be sunk.  If you hear what he's saying, Dean knows the DNC chair must facilitate and mobilize politicians and grass roots alike.  Need I add another reference to the Gingrich revolution?

Grass Roots?  Astroturf! - Finally, people know about Dean's grass roots success, but they don't always appreciate that his organization is as much about the exchange and sharpening of ideas as it is about volunteerism.  DFA meetups are places of learning about techniques, debating issues, recruiting candidates, and making a real difference.  In Hunterdon County, NJ, our meetup brought so many people to the local Democratic headquarters that we could only fit phone bank volunteers because someone offered the use of a local real estate office.  We canvassed every Democratic registered voter in the county, contributing to an 83% overall turnout.  We brought so much manpower forward, we were phoning people in Pennsylvania and the mid-west before it was all over.

Resist change if you will.  Support chronies if you must.

If Dean goes down, Trippi's "un-Televised" Third Party Revolution may well be the next challenge to this anemic Party.

by MarkMyWords on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 01:12:23 PM EST

Re: A "Carpe Dean" Moment for Dems (none / 0)

I'm not a Dean supporter, but that was a great summary of Dean's positives...
Future Majority / Young Philly Politics
by Alex Urevick on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 01:14:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Can I give you a "4" for that one? (