ASDC Executive Committee Recommendation for DNC Chair

by Jerome Armstrong, Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 11:34:33 PM EST

Rather than do another update on the first thread, here's the facts of what happened with the ASDC's executive committee's recommendation-- without Time's juice (orange, that is). There are 19 DNC members on the ASDC executive committee that were eligible to vote; of those 15 voted in the first round and 14 in the second (one of Frost's votes abstained): 
             1st Round     2nd Round

Dean         6             6
Fowler       5             8
Frost        3             -
Rosenberg    1             -
The recommendation goes before the ASDC State Chairs on Monday, where they will vote up or down on accepting it as a body.




Tags: Democrats (all tags)

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WOW! IT'S A BLOWOUT FOR FOWLER! (none / 0)

j/k, but that's what you think the way Fowler is playing it.

Do you think Dean's alleged "I hate Republicans" comments will affect the voting?

by punishinglemur on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 11:36:11 PM EST

Looks like (none / 0)

the Edwards/Kucinich play...no seconds went to Dean.
Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.
by Parker on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 11:40:39 PM EST

ok... so it was close... (none / 0)

but the anti-dean vote all went in one direction with the second round. Not necessarily a good sign.
The 10,000 Things
by Andrew C White on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 11:43:29 PM EST

agreed, but... (none / 0)

... given that this is a kind of meaningless vote, and that Donnie was prepared to soak it for as much (and even more, apparently) than it was worth, it's got me thinking that it's more of a gift to his dad than anything else.
by prouddem on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 11:59:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Pops is the only reason we're talking about Junior (none / 0)

Since his old man couldn't even get a first ballot victory, Junior certainly won't win. Which is good for Democrats because we deserve better. We deserve Reform, not a Monarchy, not an Aristocracy.
by Bob Brigham on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 12:04:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

The full body should vote it down (none / 0)

The Democratic Party needs to be democratic (lowercase) and letting a former Chair's kid inherit the leadership would make Fowler the DNC Throne, not the DNC Chair.

Do
Not
Crown

We deserve better. If Fowler ascends then I'll focus on promoting other vehicles to help elect Democratic candidates.

It needs to be remembered that this is the organization that kicked bloggers out of their meeting. It comes of no surprise that they are endorsing a candidate who can't even format a hyperlink. The Democratic Party deserves better than this.

by Bob Brigham on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 11:50:00 PM EST

Re: The full body should vote it down (none / 0)

Welcome back.
"into your illusion, i make my intrusion"
by fng on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 11:52:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The full body should vote it down (none / 0)

Selectve framing. They kicked the bloggers out of the Miami meeting, and have let them in, credentialed them (including you), and opened up to them with suprising speed since (Vegas, Sacto, and NY). Plus Driving Votes has been active at the last three meetings to increase individual party member participation. The whole world isn't conspiring against your candidate blogswarm.
"into your illusion, i make my intrusion"
by fng on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 11:54:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The full body should vote it down (none / 0)

yeah they are..it is Iowa Edwards/Kucinich all over again
Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.
by Parker on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 11:57:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

No (none / 0)

The ASDC kicked out bloggers. The DNC has admitted bloggers.
by Bob Brigham on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 12:01:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The full body should vote it down (none / 0)

GOI - Get Over It

So what if Donnie's the son of a former DNC chair?  A lot of sons and daughters admired the chosen professions of their parents, and were inspired to do the same thing when they grew up.

Donnie's no different - he genuinely wants to change the party and seems to be running for all the right reasons.  I'm not 100% sold on him, but my reservations come from JOB RELATED concerns.

I see two potential tradegies: 1)if someone voted FOR Donnie BECAUSE his dad was chair, and 2) if someone voted AGAINST Donnie BECAUSE his dad was chair.

Just listen to what all the candidates say, and don't hold their family against them, imho.

by vault5151 on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 12:07:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

perception is reality (none / 0)

I realize that you, like most of the posters who don't laugh at Fowler's candidacy, have only been here for two comments.

So let me just say that Donnie is a tool. If it weren't for his Dad, Donnie wouldn't have had the career he's had and Democrats would have been better served every time by having the position filled by talent, not nepotism.

Junior doesn't get it, he can't even format a hyperlink. He is the Faux-reform candidate and would be a disaster.

We deserve a Chair who has talent, not family favors to call in.

by Bob Brigham on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 12:14:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Forming hyperlink a requisite? (none / 0)

Dude, since when is forming a hyperlink a prerequisite for being DNC chair?

I'm no Fowler supporter, but I think it's pretty silly that you keep harping on about that.  Inability to form a hyperlink is not a sign that one doesn't "get it".  It's a sign that one doesn't know HTML.  And I don't think knowing HTML should be a prerequisite for DNC party chair.

It better not be, since I don't think Howard Dean could form a hyperlink if his life depended on it.

(The artist formerly known as "Maura in VA"!)
by Maura in CT on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 01:15:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Forming hyperlink a requisite? (none / 0)

You killed a bill because people formatted hyperlinks. You posted and cross-posted and drove action and you won...and won big time. I expect the same from a DNC Chair. You taught the future of politics and Fowler has shown he can't learn. Donnie Fowler is a faux-reform candidate.
by Bob Brigham on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 01:21:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Forming hyperlink a requisite? (3.00 / 1)

Howard Dean inspired Maura to do the activism and she knows HTML.  Howard Dean doesn't know HTML.  The Chair of the DNC doesn't need to know HTML, but the Chair does need to make sure that people who do are given the opportunity to use it strategically.

There's also a major difference between understanding the political uses of the internet and understanding the code behind them.

by susan on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 02:36:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: perception is reality (none / 0)

Long time reader, recent participant.  

And since when did posting for several years become a prerecquisite for being allowed to hold a valid opinion?

And I thought blogs were supposed to promote inclusive politics ...

by vault5151 on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 03:08:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

thanks for participating during the election (none / 0)

Blogs were the word of the year because of the actions that happened before Fowler had his consultants freeped us. I've never promoted inclusive politics, I've always promoted winning politics. Fowler is not a netroots candidate and his Johnny-come-lately supporters remind us of this with each newbie post. Anybody with an ID over 5000 who shills for Fowler should be recognized as a tool...just like their boss.

Democrats deserve better than a Monarchy.

by Bob Brigham on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 03:16:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: thanks for participating during the election (none / 0)

Tool here, just expressing an opinion.
"into your illusion, i make my intrusion"
by fng on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 09:19:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: perception is reality (none / 0)

Blogswarm, don't pretend that you are not a consultant tool.  People who live in glass houses...
by fightforamerica on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 09:29:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The full body should vote it down (none / 0)

my website
Donnie Fowler San Francisco / Silicon Valley
by donnie on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 01:21:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

for the first time, you created a hyperlink (none / 0)

Are you going to stay and chat or is this another Flaming Bag of Dog Poop.
by Bob Brigham on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 01:26:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: for the first time, you created a hyperlink (none / 0)

Blogswarm: you have avoided answering many direct questions yourself.  Like why do you sometimes post as Bob and sometimes as blogswarm?
by fightforamerica on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 09:31:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The full body should vote it down (none / 0)

A whopping two comments on your blog about this amazing win...where are your people?
Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.
by Parker on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 01:28:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

or do you expect (none / 0)

to inherit Dean supporters? I am beginning to feel like a cash cow that gets traded around milked then put out to pasture.
Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.
by Parker on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 01:30:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Abnormal comments (none / 0)

I just checked the comments on his most recent posting on his blog, and they don't sound like blog comments I've read elsewhere in the blogosphere.  They sound like quotes you'd see on the back of a book when it's being recommended.  I'm guessing they are all close friends or staffers, and were given talking points or something.  Click on his link above to check it out and you'll see what I mean.
by susan on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 02:46:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Rather than indulging in driveby snarkery (none / 0)

I'd like some straightforward typing in answer to this question.

Someone at one of the regionals (Sac, I think) reported a comment from you that if you didn't win the Chair you'd go back to Silicon Valley to your old job (whatever that might be.)

That struck me as an arrogant response. As if you were going to take your ball and go home if you couldn't be the one making the rules.

I'd like to hear what you plan to do if you do not win this seat. Specifically what you plan on doing in terms of the "grassroots" you proclaim yourself part of.

And do remember to scrub under your fingernails. It's hygiene...

Before you win, you have to fight. Come fight along with us at TexasKaos.
by boadicea on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 12:55:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rather than indulging in driveby snarkery (none / 0)

So, when Donnie answered this the first time in the diary in question, it wasn't good enough?
"into your illusion, i make my intrusion"
by fng on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 03:01:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rather than indulging in driveby snarkery (none / 0)

I'm relatively new here. I must have missed it.

I thought the diary was about what he'd do if he won.

I was asking what he'd do if he lost.

I'll go look for it when I get a break from work, or  if you'd be so kind as to link to it.

Before you win, you have to fight. Come fight along with us at TexasKaos.
by boadicea on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 03:16:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rather than indulging in driveby snarkery (none / 0)

I'll try and find it.
"into your illusion, i make my intrusion"
by fng on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 03:25:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rather than indulging in driveby snarkery (none / 0)

Thanks, I appreciate it.

I did just do a quick scan on his diaries, and didn't find the answer to my question.

If you can help with that, it would be great.

Before you win, you have to fight. Come fight along with us at TexasKaos.
by boadicea on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 03:33:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

From the Last Cattle Call (none / 0)

http://www.mydd.com/comments/2005/1/23/94623/7608/35#35
"into your illusion, i make my intrusion"
by fng on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 03:36:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: From the Last Cattle Call (none / 0)

Muchas gracias.
Before you win, you have to fight. Come fight along with us at TexasKaos.
by boadicea on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 03:51:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: From the Last Cattle Call (none / 0)

de nada (end of spanish ability...now) ;)
"into your illusion, i make my intrusion"
by fng on Tue Feb 01, 2005 at 11:54:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The full body should vote it down (none / 0)

my website
Donnie Fowler San Francisco / Silicon Valley
by donnie on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 01:29:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

a double-post??? (none / 0)

Anyone who thinks that Fowler understands post-modern politics is mistaken.
by Bob Brigham on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 01:36:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: a double-post??? (none / 0)

Now see blogswarm. This is why I got the impression you intensely dislike Fowler. :-) Maybe its just me.
by Gary Boatwright on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 01:41:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: a double-post??? (none / 0)

If Roemer came here and double-posted his ideas on criminalizing abortion, I'd kick him in the teeth too. ;)
by Bob Brigham on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 01:44:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Dear Donnie (none / 0)

You're pissing me off now. And I'm not one who viewed you as a tool, but someone not quite ready to lead the who picture yet. I'm losing respect quickly and begining to view you as a the joke people say you are. You are responible for this through your actions here.

This behavior of posting one link with no commentary is immature. Especially when there are valid comments, albeit raised a little bit too agressively and laced with invective, that need to be addressed.

If you want to come here and interact, then interact. Answer your critics. If you don't you will only be seen as validating what is being said about you : not ready for prime time.

Speak up man. You can type. Let's hear it. Prove us wrong.

If you won't do that, then get lost.

Witty comment goes here...
by michael in chicago on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 10:45:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

2nd round action (none / 0)

That is the important part. Who makes it into the second ballot and who picks up the Roemer, Webb, etc votes? For the state chairs, it looks like Fowler might have the edge. He has been making the pitch to them the whole time, praising every state party branch profusely and reminding everyone that his dad was a chair etc.

It could be an anti-Dean vote, or it could be they just like Fowler over Dean or Rosenburg or Frost.

by DaveB on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 11:50:59 PM EST

Re: 2nd round action (none / 0)

Fowler isn't anti-Dean.  I watched the forum on c-span tonight and they are saying the same things, and both have done things to get the grassroots and netroots involved in the past as well.  I've said this in a previous thread, but if for some reason it can't be Dean, I think Fowler may be our best alternative.
by Yellow Dog on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 12:08:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2nd round action (none / 0)

Why do you keep insisting Dean and Fowler are the only reform candidates Yellow Dog? Everything I've read indicates Rosenberg is just as much of a reform candidate as Dean and Fowler. You've made your preference quite clear, but you appear to be making disingenuous claims.
by Gary Boatwright on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 12:15:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2nd round action (none / 0)

I posted this on the previous thread, and I think it got lost when the new one started.  All three are reform minded candidates and all three would be great.  I think I'm fixated on these two because they seem to be the two who have the most momentum currently (but who knows since you can't see into the process!!!)
by Yellow Dog on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 12:19:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2nd round action (none / 0)

I noticed. I pulled my question up here because I thought it would get lost in the shuffle. I disagree with your analysis though. I haven't seen anything to indicate that Rosenberg is out of the running.
by Gary Boatwright on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 12:34:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2nd round action (none / 0)

fair enough.  Any of the three are better than the rest.
by Yellow Dog on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 12:38:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2nd round action (none / 0)

Because it all comes down to the second vote. That is the anti-Dean strategy. Yellow Dog is a Fowler operative that just signed on to MyDD today to get the boards flowing about Donnie.

The real race all along was who was a race for second place. It is Edwards/Kucinich Iowa play under no circumstances vote for Dean in the second round.

It is perfectly clear no why everyone kept saying the Rosenberg was their second choice.

I wonder if Dean had taken this same attitude after he dropped out of the primaries and refused to vote or support Kerry where we would have been today. So my question is tell me why Dean supporters should be magnanious towards an organization that spends more time trying to supress them than Republicans?

Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.
by Parker on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 12:27:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2nd round action (none / 0)

So my question is tell me why Dean supporters should be magnanious towards an organization that spends more time trying to supress them than Republicans?

That needs to be said again - and in BOLD.

by dryfly on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 12:32:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2nd round action (none / 0)

we shouldn't be.
by Yellow Dog on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 12:36:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2nd round action (none / 0)

but you have no problem screwing us over...I guess you think we are too stupid to know...and on top of that you really expect us to give you people money and tote your bails of cotten...I see a rude awakening about to take place.
Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.
by Parker on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 12:52:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2nd round action (none / 0)

Not sure that's a good analogy.
by Yellow Dog on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 01:03:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2nd round action (none / 0)

ha ha very funny.  If I were a Fowler "Operative" why would I be saying that Dean would be a great chair.  Why would I say Rosenberg would be a great chair.  I just want reform, and you seem to think reform can only happen with Dean.  I think it will happen with Dean, but also with some others.  But I must be totally insane to believe that there might be some other people who would be reformers.  I didn't think Dean would be as great as he was at first because he had some conservative votes.  I'm glad I kept an open mind.
by Yellow Dog on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 12:35:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2nd round action (none / 0)

Because the chair will be decided on the second vote.  That is what everyone else have been running for.

Look that the Exec Comm vote...

Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.
by Parker on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 12:40:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2nd round action (none / 0)

"If I were a Fowler "Operative" why would I be saying that Dean would be a great chair.  Why would I say Rosenberg would be a great chair."

To try and remain the 'concensus alternative'... you can't win over the soft supporters of your opponents by attacking their first choice... peel them off one by one... "Oh your candidate would be great... but he can't win so support mine... he's just as good as yours."

by dryfly on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 12:46:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2nd round action (none / 0)

Who are you kidding? You are an operative.

So far it looks like your job is to promote Fowerly for the second vote and what every you do "Do not disturb the Dean hornets nest" for heavens sakes even Hilliary threw out Ickes as a diversion.

What we all know and what operatives like yourself won't say out loud is that "The DNC needs Dean supporters more than we need the DNC" Kerry would have fizzled if Dean hadn't stayed on board to help him.

But we do not need the DNC we can work with DFA or other organizations. As Rosenberg oft quotes Fannie Lou Hammers "I am sick and tired of being sick and tired" of this organization...

Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.
by Parker on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 12:49:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2nd round action (none / 0)

What we all know and what operatives like yourself won't say out loud is that "The DNC needs Dean supporters more than we need the DNC" Kerry would have fizzled if Dean hadn't stayed on board to help him.

Agree 100%...

That is exactly it. I have two friends in Iowa - Reagan supporters in the 80s who were so sick of the Bush GOP crap they didn't know what to do... I couldn't imagine in 100 years they would support ANY Dem...

Along comes Dean and they are swept up and for the first time EVER they see a vision for where this country needs to go... not a perfect vision but at least one that isn't 100% pointing at big money & controlled interest.

Then the hatchet job by the ABD folks... and it is happening again for the chair. These are people we PROGRESSIVES need - real people... walk door-to-door in snow, kids in tow.

They don't give a shit what the party elite say or do. I told them if they aren't happy - hang up on the dems asking for money and keep going to the DFA meet ups... money will follow passion. Passion has to be first.

by dryfly on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 01:00:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Operative Implies Savvy (none / 0)

Personally, Dean, Rosenberg, and Fowler, in that order, are my preferences for chair. I want all three of them to have prominent roles in the party but don't consider myself knowledgable enough to know which would be best. I do have an observation about the charge that Fowler has sent an operative to influence message flow.

If Fowler is savvy enough to have an operative "penetrate" MyDD then apparently he does at the very least "get" the power of the blogosphere and takes you seriously. That's good.

We could use more operatives communicating our message and I hope whoever ends up running the DNC understand this.

by Curt Matlock on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 12:38:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Operative Implies Savvy (none / 0)

Fowler "operatives" have penetrated MyDD online to the extent we laugh at them. It is important to realize that nobody who supports Fowler was on MyDD during the election. It is an astroturf effort by newbies to turn the DNC Chair into the DNC Thrown. If these hacks appreciated the netroots, they would have been here last fall. But they don't, and they are supporting an heir who can't even format a hyperlink. Fowler is a faux-reform candidate who will turn our Party into a Monarchy. We deserve better.
by Bob Brigham on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 12:46:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Operative Implies Savvy (none / 0)

my website
Donnie Fowler San Francisco / Silicon Valley
by donnie on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 01:28:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

20th century (none / 0)

Again, talking at us instead of interacting.
by Bob Brigham on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 01:38:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 20th century (none / 0)

I have to smile a bit this morning. At least we know he can format a link now.

And if I recall, though as a newbie I may not have sufficient netcool to remember anything this far back, when Donnie tried to come to MyDD and talk WITH people, you just piled on (punny, isn't it?). I suspect he may not be running to his laptop every day to post because of the reaction he received here for actually trying to engage folks.

Since you created the poop, of course YOU believe that it's the be-all end-all of Donnie's ability to interact with the blogosphere. That doesn't make it gospel.

"into your illusion, i make my intrusion"
by fng on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 09:28:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 20th century (none / 0)

So why aren't "real" people blogging on his own blog?
Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.
by Parker on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 09:35:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 20th century (none / 0)

I honestly couldn't tell you. I have been to the site a few times in the last several weeks, read some of the blogs but not all, and don't think I've posted there ever. I guess because of the nature of the blogospehere, most of the discussion is happening off the actual candidate sites in the more open/neutral settings of MyDD, Kos, BurntOrange (which is friggin' good), etc.
"into your illusion, i make my intrusion"
by fng on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 09:43:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 20th century (none / 0)

Hmmm, clarification...knew about MyDD and Kos and the reputation and following they had built. Stumbled on to BurntOrange more recently and have been extremely impressed with the fellas down in TX. That's not to say I'm not generally impressed with the content/discussion/people on MyDD and Kos, 'cause I am.
"into your illusion, i make my intrusion"
by fng on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 09:46:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Operative Implies Savvy (none / 0)

This is also a lie bob/blog.  Donnie is the only candidate that actually came here to interact personally.

You have posted lie after lie about Donnie.  Who feeds you the words to type in?

by fightforamerica on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 09:36:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Remember (3.00 / 1)

Fowler had a relationship with the Chair of the exec committee (Brewer) who may have used his influence to get other members to vote...

This whole vote may be nothing more than a Brewer-Fowler powerplay.

Brewer's influence will be diminished in tomorrow's group and may in fact cause a backlash from members who feel they are being handled...

In any event...if Brwer was responsible for this, we in Michigan will be dealing with him at the state convention in February...two can play the vote for the other guy game too!

by Nazgul35 on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 12:23:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

If nothing else... (none / 0)

...the path that vote took can be indicative of what might happen were Dean not to get the nod on the first ballot in D.C.

What do you think?  Does Dean have a lot of second and third round votes?  Or are they almost all coming in round 1?

Tim

by Tim Tagaris on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 12:00:42 AM EST

Re: If nothing else... (none / 0)

This is what Webb said that they are all conspiring to make sure Dean does not win it on the first ballot.
Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.
by Parker on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 12:03:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If nothing else... (none / 0)

It is clearly an ABD movement... Fowler is just the latest vehicle... Roemer, Frost, Fowler... ABD.

Personally if Fowler gets it maybe it is time to take the rest of the decade off... let the ABD & party honchos fund their own parade... find their red state support somewhere. Maybe it is time to push progressive policies through a different venue other than the Dem party...

I was active this cycle because of Deans energy & vision... I was luke warm to Kerry from the get go... but Bush was so bad and kerry was all their was...

Dems are making a huge mistake thinking the GOP will always run horrible candidates and expecting us to line up, pony up and support blindly.

I might go fishing instead.

by dryfly on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 12:27:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

further info (none / 0)

Honold is sthe chair of Wsconsin
Farrell is the chair of NY
Gates is the chair of Colorado
Burks is the vice chair of Alabama
Khare is the Vice chair of  South Caarolina

This vote is not defdinitive but these people on their own are inflential in their own states.  

There are more of them who are DNC members on their own as well as having influence with their own state DNC members

by debcoop on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 12:14:04 AM EST

Dean Hates Republicans, etc... (none / 0)

I enjoyed Dean's comment "I hate the Republicans and everything they stand for" and would also like everyone to remember that the rest of that statement read something like "but I admire their commitment (or something like that--I don't have it all verbatim)."  It also got a huge positive response from the crowd, so I think he's alright for now.

I want to know why everyone is ignoring Wellington Webb.  I was very impressed with him in New York.  He's similar to Dean, but brought up some points no one else did--such as the need for more diversity among DNC members--especially Asian Americans, who are very poorly represented both there and in the gov't at large.  I'm rooting for Dean, but I wish the public would give Webb more attention--he's the kind of person we are lucky to count on our side.

Just a thought.
KB

Katherine Brengle Massachusetts
by Katherine Brengle on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 12:18:18 AM EST

Re: Dean Hates Republicans, etc... (none / 0)

I would also like to add that Newt Gingrich repeatedly said that "Democrats are the enemy of normal Americans" in the nineties. I don't recall any backlash from those statements.
by progressiveliberaldem on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 12:37:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Dean Hates Republicans, etc... (none / 0)


The backlash comes when the media decides this sentence fragment about Republicans is the story.

(One channel plays the Scream, the next one plays it twice, the next one plays it three times, etc.... it's too painful to forget.)

So: CHANGE THE SUBJECT.

What I want to know is, how do we find out what strings Donnie Sr. was pulling for his boy, and what offers changed hands, and what that says about the state of backroom politics in the party? (hint, hint, reporters)

by CT Lex on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 12:59:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Dean Hates Republicans, etc... (none / 0)

He's not the only one. You can bet that Pelosi, Reid and others are calling in chits as well. I think the race is all back room politics from here on in. The phone lines to labor leaders are burning hot right now. If Art Torres hasn't endorsed anyone yet, he's getting a lot of calls from old friends.
by Gary Boatwright on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 02:07:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Dean Hates Republicans, etc... (none / 0)

Webb is very popular and well spoken, but his credentials are limited to three terms as a Mayor. I'm not sure, but there are suspiciions he is one of the DLC candidates to stop Dean from winning on the first ballot. The more options there are the more chances of splitting the vote on the first ballot.

I suspect Webb is going to have a prominant role in the future, but he's not a serious candidate this time around.

by Gary Boatwright on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 01:08:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Dean Hates Republicans, etc... (none / 0)

I'm wondering if when you say "DLC candidates," you mean "folks whose issue agenda/party connections line up with the DLC", or "folks who were drafted or encouraged to run by DLC honchos"...

I have a close family friend who was very influential in the DLC pre-Clinton, and who has since parted ways with Al From, and the painting this person paints of the DLC post-Clinton makes me think they don't swing that big of a bat anymore, at least when it comes to maneuvering things.

The Clintons and Donna B. probably have three times the influence on today's DNC than the DLC ever did, IMO.

by CT Lex on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 01:47:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Dean Hates Republicans, etc... (none / 0)

Webb did endorse Dean in the primary.
by Yellow Dog on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 11:14:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

OK, it's inside politics time now (3.00 / 1)

Most of you foks are following this closer than I am and are far more familiar with the process and connections than I do. I suspect I am in the majority in this regard.

Disclosure was mentioned in the previous thread and I would appreciate clearing the air of ulterior motives, so to speak.

Blogswarm has been very clear in his preference for either Dean or Rosenberg and his intense dislike for Fowler

Matt Stoller has been very clear that he is working to get Rosenberg elected.

Yellow Dog clearly favors Fowler and is trying to discount Rosenberg. fng also favors fowler.

My preference is Dean, but Rosenberg would be an acceptable reform candidate.

Please don't take it personal, but there's a little bit of snark going on that is becoming a distraction. Pardon the suspicion, but I'm getting to the point where Chris and Jerome are the only ones I can really trust. Is anybody here besides Matt actually working for a specific candidate?

If I have mis-stated anyone's position, please feel free to correct me, I am simply seeking enlightenment and trying to gauge hidden bias.

by Gary Boatwright on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 12:52:02 AM EST

Damn straight (3.00 / 0)

I want a fighting Democratic Party that modernizes and kicks ass.

I am a Reform Democrat.

Give me Dean or give me Rosenberg or I'll give my efforts towards electing Democrats outside the DNC.

I'm not working for anybody, but I'm a Democrat who is very concerned about our future. I don't want a DINO, I don't want a loser and I don't want Daddy's boy.

I want to win and I want a Democratic Party that will Reform to the point we can win.

by Bob Brigham on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 12:58:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Damn straight (none / 0)

Thanks blogswarm. You and Matt have both been extremely straightforward about who you support and who you don't and why.

I'm not so sure about some of the newcomers, and I would appreciate clarification. I'm not as convinced as Parker that Yellow Dog is a Fowler operative and don't really care. I'm just trying to clear the air.

by Gary Boatwright on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 01:03:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Damn straight (none / 0)

While I agree with your assessment that I want a reform candidate, I disagree with your characterization that my writing can be condensed as an "intense dislike for Fowler". Yes, Donnie Fowler is a tool who wouldn't even be considered were it not for all of the career placement his Dad has provided, but my dislike Tim Roemer is even greater.
by Bob Brigham on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 01:15:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Damn straight (none / 0)

Fair enough and well said.
by Gary Boatwright on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 01:18:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Damn straight (none / 0)

I AM NOT AN OPERATIVE.  I hope that clarifies.  I am also not 100% behind Fowler.  However, I don't think he would be the complete disastor that Parker and Blogswarn think he would be and I DO want a reform minded candidate, of which I think that he is one of three.  I had a slight preference for someone outside DC which is why in an earlier post I discounted Rosenberg.  On second thought I just want someone who will can help us win again, and he counts too.
by Yellow Dog on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 01:25:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Damn straight (none / 0)

Fair enough. I didn't mean to ignore ttagaris, who has also been straight forward and has some casual? relationship with Bob Brigham over at the Swing State Project.

I don't know if it's realistic or possible, but my interest is in clearing the air so we can have substantive discussions that focus on the issues and analysis, instead of bickering over banalities.

by Gary Boatwright on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 01:32:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Damn straight (none / 0)

By the way, I just noticed my careless wording with my "casual?" comment. I intended to indicate that I don't know if ttagaris has casual blogging privileges over at Swing State or if he has an acutal business connection. I didn't mean to infer that they had some kind of under handed arrangement.
by Gary Boatwright on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 03:06:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Damn straight (none / 0)

DavidNYC is good enough to let me post when I want over at SSP.  Above all else, I thank David for that.

I want Rosenberg or Dean, anything short of those two would lead to extreme dissapointment.  I have never spoken with an individual candidate about writing anything for their campaign on SSP or any other blog.

I think Donnie Fowler would be a tremendous mistake; primarily because I feel a need to escape from the politics of old.   I think yesterdays "endorsement" is a perfect example of what I DON'T want to see from my Democratic Party.  The more anybody but Dean I see, the more I am pulled in his direction.

Only one person is paying me (not really) and that is a candidate in PA for US Senate, Dr. Chuck Pennacchio, and that is to help get his netroots program off-the-ground.

Tim

by Tim Tagaris on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 09:25:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Considering the time frame blogswarm (none / 0)

or anybody else for that matter. Do you think discussions on blogs are going to have any real influence on the vote or has this moved into the final stage where hardball politcs and back room deals are going to make or break Dean?

It seems to me that positions are probably pretty well hardened aside from the influence of the real power players. One example would be the union endorsement or one from Art Torres. Did I miss an endorsement by Torres?

I don't know what Pelosi, Reid and the DLC are doing  in the back rooms, but a lot of strings are getting pulled and favors being called in. Is there still time for grassroots and netroots activism to influence any votes?

by Gary Boatwright on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 01:39:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Interesting Point (none / 0)

What I do know is that the small donor is what the DNC needs in a post-McCain-Feingold era.

Dean and Rosenberg can deliver those dollars.

The DNC delegates need to condsider the financial future of our Party as they decide how to vote.

by Bob Brigham on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 01:42:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Interesting Point (none / 0)

That's my take as well. Rosenberg has been attacked for being too close to the DLC, but it looks like he made a pretty clear break and it may have actually have hurt him when he sided with the grassroots and netroots over the entrenched DLC interests.

I'm not as opposed to Fowler as you are, but I see both him and Frost as the primary ABD candidates. Webb may be positioning himself for a future spot or to make sure the CBC has a seat at the table.

Roemer was the early ABD choice of the DLC, but has flamed out with the grassroots as much as Frost has. Leland is just a cipher that seems to have entered the race for no other reason than to split votes on the first ballot.

I agree with your take on the grassroots and netroots as far as any other candidate besides Dean and Rosenberg. I'm in the same category you are as far as taking my energy and contributions outside the party if anybody else wins.

by Gary Boatwright on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 02:04:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Interesting Point (none / 0)

It is important that you confirmed that Fowler is just another anti-Dean candidate. Junior is running to continue the politics of old must be rejected.
by Bob Brigham on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 02:16:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Interesting Point (none / 0)

A story in the Boston Globe today via TPM that suggests Webb is also another anti-Dean candidate.
by Gary Boatwright on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 03:25:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

can Simon really deliver small dollars? (none / 0)

My understanding was that Simon's prowess is with high-dollar fundraising. Like, he's having a $1,000 suggested contribution fundraiser tomorrow:

https://secure.ga3.org/01/Support_SFC_DC17

Not that high-dollar fundraising is necessarily bad (we need everybody's money, I guess) but has he actually raised the small dollars before?

According to this:

http://tray.com/cgi-win/x_ps.exe?DoFn=&rb1=2004&rb=TotalReceipts

Dean's PAC raised $4.8 mil in the 7 or 8 months it was up and running, plus whatever they raised from their people directly for Kerry or the WA recount and whatever else.

Simon's NDN PAC raised $250k this cycle, and it's been around for like 10 years. The list says the "ALABAMA POWER CO EMPLOYEES FEDERAL POLITICAL ACTION CMTE (APC EMPLOYEES FEDERAL PAC)" raised more money than NDN.

In the interests of disclosure I'm for Dean, but I could take a Rosenberg or a Fowler because they're young guys and they're singing from the right hymnal.

Singing the right tune is the credibility test for me. I'm just wondering if Simon and Donnie have substantially different records on the small dollar stuff.

by prouddem on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 02:18:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: can Simon really deliver small dollars? (none / 0)

Looking forward, Dean and Rosenberg have credibility with the blogs while bloggers laugh at Fowler's plea to have his Dad get him a job. We can't afford the risk of a candidate who lacks respect in the blogosphere.

The DNC no longer has a monopoly on Democratic action and small donors will contribute to the most effective vehicle for electing Democrats.

If the DNC can't compete with DFA and NDN then it is irrelevant. Only two candidates have proven they are as successful as DFA and NDN.

by Bob Brigham on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 02:39:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: can Simon really deliver small dollars? (none / 0)

Check out the fact below NDN ony had 34 individual donors in 2004 compared to 3295 individual donors in 2004 for DFA.

There is no comparison NDN has no clue how to fund raise on a small scale. OF the 34 people who gave to NDN the smallest amount was 1000USD.

Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.
by Parker on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 02:45:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: can Simon really deliver small dollars? (none / 0)

Nobody but Dean can deliver small dollars. The question is whether or not the grassroots will keep sending their dollars in or take them elsewhere if somebody else wins. My opinion, as well as my intention, is that Rosenberg is the only acceptable candidate that will not push me out of the party.

I don't know if I'd say I would abandon the party, but I would be inclined to take my energy and my contributions outside the party and work through other avenues; maybe for Dems and maybe for Greens. I've been a registered Independent before and I may become one again.

I think most Dean supporters are realistic and understand he doesn't have a lock on the Chair position. Some of his supporters hope he doesn't win so he can still run for President again in '08.

by Gary Boatwright on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 02:40:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: can Simon really deliver small dollars? (none / 0)

It's getting too late. I meant to say that Rosenberg is the only "alternative" candidate to Dean that would not push me out of the party. All of the other choices indicate an unacceptable deafness to the concerns of the grassroots and netroots.
by Gary Boatwright on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 03:08:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: can Simon really deliver small dollars? (3.00 / 1)

Even more telling:

tray.com :

31 contributions from individuals given to THE NEW DEMOCRAT NETWORK - PAC (NDN PAC)for election cycle '04

tray.com :

3295 contributions from individuals given to DEMOCRACY FOR AMERICA for election cycle '04

Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.
by Parker on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 02:41:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: OK, it's inside politics time now (none / 0)

I like Rosenberg's progressive vision, but he's a bit snarky in person (big turn off for me)... It appears to have come down to a 2 man race in my view: Fowler vs. Dean..  I volunteered for Dean in Iowa during the primaries and appreciate all he's done for our party, but if I was casting my vote today, it'd be for Fowler...  

Fowler has the mix of vision and application.. He has "been in the trenches" and fought the good fight... He isnt some elected official who will pander, he's one of us... I respect someone who's walked in our shoes.. Gov. Dean was a great Governor and a great advocate for our party, but he has never experienced the grassroots organization and field operations that you need to win elections.. I think there is a place for Dean in our party, but he isnt the right fit for this job..  Fowler gets my vote..  

http://www.changetheparty.com

by Bart Carter on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 02:43:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: OK, it's inside politics time now (none / 0)

get a life...

Dean never experienced a grassroots organization yet you supposedly worked for him Iowa....yeah there was nooooo grassroots organization in Iowa or field operations.

Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.
by Parker on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 02:48:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: OK, it's inside politics time now (none / 0)

Kind of strange how many new posters keep telling us it's down to Dean and Fowler. Coincidence or conspiracy? We report, you decide.
by Gary Boatwright on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 03:11:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Fowler is the Faux-netroots choice (none / 0)

Look at the Fowler posters and you'll realize they're all newbies. They didn't believe in the netroots during the election but they'll fake their support to crown Junior.
by Bob Brigham on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 03:19:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fowler is the Faux-netroots choice (none / 0)

Bob: disclose your $ sources!
by fightforamerica on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 09:27:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: OK, it's inside politics time now (none / 0)

Dean did a great job in Iowa, but didn't oversee the day-to-day operations of the state..  The regional coodinators did the work, his state director, Jeani Murray, laid the ground work; his Dpty Campaign Manager Tom McMahon formulated the GOTV mobilization plan, and Campaign Manager Trippi crafted the perfect storm...  

Dean spent $43 million in Iowa and and came in a solid 3rd..  He was the favorite candidate with the most national support and most buzz in the media, but in the end, 3rd places dont win elections... A great Governor like Dean would best serve our party running for President again..  He'd be able to say what he thinks and move the party platform forward..

by Bart Carter on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 10:54:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: OK, it's inside politics time now (none / 0)

I like Rosenberg's progressive vision, but he's a bit snarky in person

Really? I just met him for the first time this weekend, and he seemed anything but snarky. Also, the nubmer one criticism I hear of him from people who either know him or have met him is that he's too low key and nice.

Future Majority / Young Philly Politics
by Alex Urevick on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 10:07:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Surprised about Rosenberg (none / 0)

but I really think Trippi is an albatross around his neck. Plus Rosenberg has no cred with African Americans out side of the DLC.
Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.
by Parker on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 12:57:43 AM EST

Re: Surprised about Rosenberg (none / 0)


Speaking of the African-American DNC bloc: This is a very big, very committed group of activists who, even when they disagree, check in CONSTANTLY with one another on voting matters.

(I worked down the hall from Maynard Jackson's office...the Af-Am outreach desk was always humming with people, all day long.)

So here's the question: what do we know about Webb and Dean that might take Webb's following OUT of the ABD column and INTO Dean's column on a 2nd or 3rd vote?

Full disclosure: Former DNC staffer (twice), former Dean staffer (NH/Generation Dean);

by CT Lex on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 01:19:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Surprised about Rosenberg (none / 0)

Interesting observation. Why wouldn't Rosenberg have any credibility with the Congressional Black Caucus? Or are you referring to the African American grassroots?
by Gary Boatwright on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 01:28:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Surprised about Rosenberg (none / 0)

Referring mainly to what I have seen/heard about African-American grassroots. Also remember that last DNC Chair's race (as I recall), Maynard Jackson (black former Atlanta mayor) was the only candidate run against T-Mac.

No reason, off the cuff, why Rosenberg couldn't garner black DNC support. Since there's no one IDEOLOGICAL streak that unites black activists, I imagine it's more of a STYLE concern.

(As an example, Harold Ford and Al Sharpton could not be further apart in Democratic ideology, but I notice a lot of parallels in how they EMOTE their ideas to an audience.)

Simon seems like a very smart, very plugged-in, not very emotionally-driven guy. Picture Kerry in the black churches, as compared with Clinton in the black churches.

Again, just some personal speculation...

by CT Lex on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 01:41:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Surprised about Rosenberg (none / 0)

Because he is DLC (NDN old wine in new bottles) and when Leiberman as Chairman of the DLC the first thing he did was attacked the right for the CBC to form a caucus.

When that didn't work. Then they found more ingenious ways a picking apart the CBC by paying Black Dems like Ford...thru NDN . As Sharpton would say of these DLC/NDN Blacks they are my color but my kind. So the NDN has really destroyed the cohesiveness of the CBC and it is usually the DLC/NDN Black Dems who vote against the rest.

Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.
by Parker on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 01:49:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Surprised about Rosenberg (none / 0)

It's a compelling theory, but again, based on my experience as a humble staffer, it's not really how things work in the party.

If we were the GOP, then yes, the idea of one powerful NDN master-puppeteer behind the scenes might add up. But maneuvering ANYthing in our party is like, well, herding cats. You think anyone bosses Harold Ford, Jr., around besides Harold Ford, Sr.? If so, you haven't met the guy.

The DNC staffers (junior and senior) are arguably one of the most central elements of the party apparatus, and let me tell you, for the 10% that we tell people what to do, there's 90% that we beg them to fall into line. I bet the NDN is no different.

But we're Democrats, and I couldn't imagine it any other way.

by CT Lex on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 02:02:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Surprised about Rosenberg (none / 0)

sorry, I wasn't talking about the DNC but Black Dems in general
Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.
by Parker on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 02:11:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Rosenberg & African American DNC Votes (none / 0)

I am a supporter of Simon Rosenberg.

Rosenberg is a smart cookie is already courting African American DNC voters.

As an example, Rosenberg did lunch this past Saturday in NYC with Al Sharpton.

Also, Rosenberg has the stealth backing of Big Labor, Big Politicos for 2008 (Bayh, Kerry, H Clinton, etc)

In other words ... Rosenberg knows how to build coalitions and he will win 2/12/05 and help us win in 2008.

Democratic Dad

by Democratic Dad on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 10:15:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rosenberg & African American DNC Votes (none / 0)

Al "who took Republican Money" Sharpton to torpedo Dean in a debate...not very impressed.

Dean has already gotten the endorsements of the DNC Black caucus Convers, Jackson and the majority of the CBC (those that aren't DLCers that is).

Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.
by Parker on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 10:44:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Passion! (3.00 / 1)

I'm amazed at how worked up people are about this. It's great! People on myDD are more antagonistic than the candidates themselves.

I do think that there are some rather mean-spirited things being posted about Fowler here. He is young, but he has been at this a long time and done on-the-ground work in a lot of states. I've heard him tell stories about working for Jesse Jackson when he was 19. He may have gotten into politics because of his Dad (much like many other people follow their parents' professions) but that doesn't mean he hasn't worked hard or done good work.

There are a lot worse candidates for this than Donnie. I think he's a reformer.

I'll announce who I'm supporting tomorrow with the rest of my delegation. And yes, I do have a vote.

It's going to take time to turn the party--it's like attacking a barge with canoes. It can be done, but everyone has to pull together. State parties reorganize every two years, which offers potential for change of two DNC members in each state. Other DNC members are elected for 4-year terms, and most of those elections happened earlier this year. The change is happening, just not as fast as some of us would like.

I often wonder about how many of those throwing brickbats on the net are trying to be part of the solution. If you're not signed up as a precinct person yet, go do it. That's the first step. Then you can vote on the people who make up your state party organization. Or run for the state party yourself.

by Jenny Greenleaf on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 02:03:56 AM EST

Re: Passion! (none / 0)

Donnie doesn't even have a Posse.

Sorry to be so simplistic but when you see poll after poll with thousands of people participating and Fowlers always coming out a very distant 4th or 5th then you see that is just simple manipulation and backroom bartering that has somehow made him a contender...it starts to be annoying.

This is deja vu all over again There was Kerry n fouth place and with a little backroom highjinks he becomes the nominee.

Been there done that...at least this time I won't feel bad about walking away. Sorry but this is crap and these are crappy people whp behave this way.

I want to lower expectations right now I will work with DFA and maybe some others orgs. but I may have to give the DNC amiss. I feel bad but if I help I will just be rewarding bad behavior.

Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.
by Parker on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 02:19:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Passion! (none / 0)

Parker, that's just not the way it works. Thousands of people haven't been elected to vote on this. The DNC is a representative body, just like Congress. You elect a representative, and hope they vote your way.

When they don't vote your way often enough, you find another candidate, and help him or her win. The Democratic Party essentially works the same way, and it takes time to replace the players.

I get a lot of emails about the DNC race, and I've had a few who say they'll quit the party if Dean doesn't win the chair spot. I've talked to Gov. Dean about this, and it's certainly not his view of what should happen. He truly wants to take the party back and change it. The only way that happens is if we all stay involved and slog through it. In my area, DFA folks are well integrated into the party and vice versa. We like and help each other--actually we're the same people.

I talked to a woman at the Sacramento meeting who had been recently elected to the California state party. She said about half the membership had changed in the recent reorganization. That's serious progress. In my home state of Oregon, it was probably about a third.

That said, you gotta do what you gotta do, and some party organizations are more palatable than others. DFA is a fine place to put your time and energy.

by Jenny Greenleaf on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 03:47:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Passion! (none / 0)

Once bitten, twice shy
We are getting Kerry'd again, this is just not acceptable.
Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.
by Parker on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 07:11:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Somewhat off topic, but... (none / 0)

I really appreciated Kerry's appearance on Meet the Press.  He effectively countered the notions of a Social Security crisis and that pro-choice equals pro-abortion, and was kind to Howard Dean.  He even mentioned Dean's balanced budgets, which is what most impressed me about the governor from Day One.  Dean was my choice in the presidential primary and he's my preference for DNC chair

But I don't like some of the online snarkiness in the battle.  Blogs are an incredible source of information that have opened the DNC chair selection process to the public eye for the first time, really.  They're definitely making the Democratic Party more democratic, so it's disheartening to see blogmasters sniping at each other about their personal preferences.

I'm not all that keen on a Roemer or Leland chairmanship, but I'd be fine with any of the rest of them.  They're all strong, proven, effective leaders.  

by ChgoSteve on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 03:19:16 AM EST

Kerry Did Not Endorse Dean (none / 0)

Kerry only said that Dean was qualified to be the DNC Chair ... However Kerry did not endorse Dean.

Kerry says we don't need the DNC Chair to be a spokesperson (aka Dean) but a Modernizer (aka someone like Rosenberg)

Read between the lines ... Kerry does not want Dean as DNC Chair .... and neither does inside the beltway Dems of any flavor.

by Democratic Dad on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 10:22:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Kerry Did Not Endorse Dean (none / 0)

Well then fine...

then let the inside the beltway Dems raise their own money and GOTV themselves. If they don't want us then we will leave..I am not going to beg these assholes (particulary an idiot like Kerry) to let us in the party so that they can just use us as an ATM and beast of burdens...fuck 'em and the lame ass donkey they rode in on.

I am really getting sick of their shit...

Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.
by Parker on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 10:29:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Kerry Did Not Endorse Dean (none / 0)

I am really getting sick of their shit

And I am getting sick of yours. Hell, we're all sick of each other's shit at this point.

I really just can't wait until this is over so that we can all move on to attack the Republicans instead of our allies...

Future Majority / Young Philly Politics
by Alex Urevick on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 10:46:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Kerry Did Not Endorse Dean (none / 0)

Who is attacking who Dem Dad says that once again that so called leaders of the party are already in cahoots to derail Dean...well fine...they can fuck off for all I care.
Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.
by Parker on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 11:01:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Kerry Did Not Endorse Dean (none / 0)

Right, and after we all go fuck off we're going to have to figure out how to build a majority that includes people we don't like, including many of the fainthearted ninnies that are currently running the Democratic show.

My point is, I am anxious to see what you post about once the chair election is over.

What will you write about if Dean gets the job?

If Rosenberg gets the nod will you spend all your time flaming him and his DLC connections from years past?

Future Majority / Young Philly Politics
by Alex Urevick on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 11:07:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Kerry Did Not Endorse Dean (none / 0)

oh yeah I will definitely hold his feet to the fire. There hasn't been any scrutinization of Rosenberg on the blogs and that is because bloggers smell a windfall coming their way if he gets in and they are "organized" by Trippi.

Rosenbergs NDN is one of the main reasons that the Dem PArty are in the shit that the are today...NDN has gotten them addicted to the corporate funding and they are more interested in appeasing the corporations than the Democratic base.

Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.
by Parker on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 11:19:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Kerry Did Not Endorse Dean (none / 0)

Did you read my comment regarding the windfall on my DNC Chair recap? You never responded...

Rosenbergs NDN is one of the main reasons that the Dem PArty are in the shit that the are today

Now you're just getting silly.

And your response is worrying, to a degree. While I do find your comments to be a little repetative and often lacking evidence, I do think that it is extremely prudent to make sure that we have folks like you pointing out mistakes that we make as a movement and as a party.

I just hope that, if Rosenberg wins, that you will keep your mind open enough to admit if he does a good job and if he doesn't in fact cave to the corporate and DLC lobbies.

Future Majority / Young Philly Politics
by Alex Urevick on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 11:23:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Kerry Did Not Endorse Dean (none / 0)

I posted evidence and there was a front page story with an article describing the inner working of the NDN.

www.prospect.org :

Simon Rosenberg, the former field director for the DLC who directs the New Democrat Network, a spin-off political action committee, says, "We're trying to raise money to help them lessen their reliance on traditional interest groups in the Democratic Party. In that way," he adds, "they are ideologically freed, frankly, from taking positions that make it difficult for Democrats to win."

Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.
by Parker on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 11:36:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Kerry Did Not Endorse Dean (none / 0)

Yes, but you never answered my questions- which interest groups was he referring to? Do you know? What are your assumptions?
Future Majority / Young Philly Politics
by Alex Urevick on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 11:47:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Kerry Did Not Endorse Dean (none / 0)

Read the article...the interest groups were the tradional Dem base: African Americam, Labor, Women etc.
Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.
by Parker on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 11:54:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Kerry Did Not Endorse Dean (none / 0)

I wonder how you square that with the fact that Rosenberg spent most of the last election specifically targetting an "interest group" (really, are women and African-Americans interest groups?) that the Dems were ignoring and taking for granted, i.e. Hispanic voters.

From Time Magazine

Enter the New Democrat Network, which began life in 1996 as a political action committee-that is, a group able to raise money and donate it to candidates. It was led by a From and Joe Lieberman protege named Simon Rosenberg who, at age 40, is a generation younger than From and markedly less combative. Until this year, the NDN was regarded, accurately, as a DLC clone. But a serious rift has opened between the two groups. "There's a debate in the New Democratic world about where we are going," Rosenberg told me diplomatically. "And if it's true that the NDN and DLC are no longer 100% aligned, it's a sign of health and maturity."

Rosenberg says the rift is more style than substance. From says it's about Howard Dean. "Simon jumped on the Dean bandwagon and abandoned the New Democratic movement because he wanted to be a player" From says, making the dispute public for the first time. "Dean didn't work out and now I guess he's trying the next thing."

"I didn't support Dean's candidacy or agree with him on many issues," Rosenberg says, "but I appreciated how he did what he did. I also thought it was time for New Democrats to declare victory in the intellectual wars and make peace with the party infrastructure." In fact, Rosenberg's group continues to give financial support to New Democratic candidates in places like Oklahoma and South Dakota, where the traditional Democratic message doesn't work very well. But he has also reached out to the more adventurous liberals in the mainstream party-groups like MoveOn.org and bloggers like Daily Kos-finding common ground on new campaign technologies, if not always on substance. Rosenberg has also violated an unspoken DLC no-no by helping the Hispanic Caucus (From opposes the Democrats' ethnic fragmentation) with a series of Spanish-language political-advocacy ads. The NDN spots are totally unlike the dark, Bush-bashing ads favored by liberal groups. They are optimistic, sunsplashed and "target Latino aspirations," notes Hispanic Caucus chair Representative Bob Menendez. "The New Democrat Network really gets where we are at."


Future Majority / Young Philly Politics
by Alex Urevick on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 12:30:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Kerry Did Not Endorse Dean (none / 0)

All the Black candidates Rosenberg funded were DLC. As the article states Rosenberg only dissagrees with From on style not substance.

I give kudos for the hispanic out reach but as someone said that no parts of his website where translated so it was pure a preaching exercise not a dialogue.

This article alludes to what I was saying earlier on Liebermans attempts to break up the Black caucus and why Rosenberg as a DLCer has no cred with Black Dems.

Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.
by Parker on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 02:30:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Kerry Did Not Endorse Dean (none / 0)

As if blowing off 750K of Dean's supporters by humiliating their guy isn't divisive?

I guess the Democratic Party must be in better shape than I thought. LOL.

What if they modernized a party and nobody came?

We won't get fooled again.

by nanorich on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 10:53:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

FOWLER IS ON FIRE (2.00 / 0)

Hot off the presses ladies and gents.  The ASDC (Association of State Democratic Chairs) has officially endorsed Donnie Fowler for DNC chair.  This shot in the arm for the Fowler campaign comes after two weeks of strong performances by Fowler in several different arenas.  From preaching Democratic values on Hannity and Colmes to engaging with fire-breathing liberals in Sacramento and New York, Fowler has displayed his range and versatility.  It's safe to say that Donnie is a strong contender, if not frontrunnner.  Don't believe me?  Look for yourself.  http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1022630,00.html  OR http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,145849,00.html  I investigated Fowler's background after I saw him speak on Inside Politics several weeks ago, and was immediately impressed with his vision for the party, expressed in his "Plan for a New DNC" ( http://www.changetheparty.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=13&Itemid=41 ) which can be found on Donnie's website, www.changetheparty.com.  Regardless, I wasn't sure what to think until I came to the Western Caucus in Sacramento last weekend.  I had the opportunity to spend several hours watching Donnie from a distance.  What I can tell you that the man is the genuine article.  Though he was obviously pulled in several directions, he treated me with complete respect in every exchange we had, though I have neither a vote nor a DNC membership card.  Donnie is focused, composed, personable, and most importantly, EXPERIENCED.  He's been on the ground in over a dozens states, fighting the good fight.  While all the candidates are talking about the importance of foundational grassroots development, no one comes close to the range of grassroots experience that Donnie has.  Our party leadership will make a very wise decision should they choose to follow the example of ASDC, and elect Donnie Fowler DNC chair.  
by Catalyst on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 07:08:15 AM EST

Re: FOWLER IS ON FIRE (none / 0)

Once again, another newbie.
by Matt Stoller on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 08:14:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FOWLER IS ON FIRE (none / 0)

Fowler has a fake posse
Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.
by Parker on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 08:45:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Matt ... Who 'Could' Kerry Support As DNC Chair (none / 0)

Matt,

Matt ...  Who 'Could'  Kerry Support  As DNC Chair?

I reviously wrote:

"Kerry ... like many of the Democratic Party faithful realize we need more of a Modernizer like Simon Rosenberg than a devisive Spokesman like Howard Dean."

Democratic Dad

by Democratic Dad on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 10:38:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FOWLER IS ON FIRE (none / 0)

I thought it was just the Exec Committee?
Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.
by Parker on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 08:51:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FOWLER IS ON FIRE (none / 0)

Somebody get the hose.

I also seen Donnie at work, and he is good guy...but

he made a serious error when he exploited this situation to be the Stop Dean Guy.

I am very disappointed in Donnie.  And his astroturf crew.

by nanorich on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 09:12:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FOWLER IS ON FIRE (none / 0)

Why can't someone have a different take?  Why are they considered anti-Dean if they are not Dean?

I am a Fowler supporter, in part, because he did not walk away from his pledge to the pledge to take power away from the chair and share it with the states.  That shows a commitment to reform.

This party needs a tactician and Fowler is that man.  He would not have been the right choice four years ago and if he does the job right he will not be the kind of person we need in four years.

Of the people running, Donnie has the right experience and commitment to change the party.

by fightforamerica on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 09:49:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FOWLER IS ON FIRE (none / 0)

The party needs more than a tactician.  You can hire tacticians.  Our party has more tacticians than voters.

What the party needs is a LEADER with passionate voice who can counter, on a daily basis, the Republicans and actually articulate our values so eyes don't glaze over and send them into comas.

Dean is both a good tactician and a leader.  With Dean we have a shadow president, with Donnie we have another operative with a few good ideas, and as much experience as one would expect for a middle level field operative.

by nanorich on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 09:58:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FOWLER IS ON FIRE (none / 0)

Why can't someone have a different take?  Why are they considered anti-Dean if they are not Dean?

Well let's see:

www.time.com :

A dent was knocked into the aura of inevitability surrounding Howard Dean's run to be the next Democratic Party chair Sunday afternoon when the executive committee of state party chairs voted to endorse Donnie Fowler rather than Dean.

www.foxnews.com :

He [Fowler] emerges as a less ideological challenger to former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean (search), who until the vote was considered the front-runner for the party chairmanship. But many Democrats think Dean, who screamed himself out of the presidential nomination last year following a poor showing in Iowa, is too controversial for the party and they have been seeking an alternative.

www.changetheparty.com :

Great news! Today, the executive committee of the Democratic Party's state chairs endorsed me for DNC chair. This was a watershed event on the road to the February 12 election and came down to a one-on-one vote with Governor Howard Dean.

I haven't a clue where on earth are people getting this anti-Dean meme from...

Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.
by Parker on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 10:01:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FOWLER IS ON FIRE (none / 0)

Parker,

Any idiot can look at the first round votes and the second round votes, and figure out what is going on.

by nanorich on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 10:17:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FOWLER IS ON FIRE (none / 0)

Another newbie who can't format an hyperlink.

Or read a press release for that matter: It wasn't the ASDC that endorsed your boy, it was the Executive Committee of ASDC that endorsed him.  A subset of ASDC.

Experienced?  I seem to recall several questions about experience that were posted directly to Donnie that never got answers.

Grassroots experience? If he had that much experience with the grassroots, the subliminal message of Donnie's posts wouldn't be "This message brought to you by Donnie Fowler."  He would already understand how to talk to the grassroots, not talk at them.  This has been raised several times when Donnie's dropped by this blog to post but he never seems to get the message.....

It's official: I have moved from being ambivalent about Donnie Fowler to hoping that not only is he on fire, he just flames out.  I cannot stand the guy now.  I guess my only surprise is that it's taken as long as it has to reach this conclusion.

by KimPossible on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 09:37:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Non Binding vote (none / 0)

www.nytimes.com :
The executive committee recommendation is not binding, and some Democrats held open the possibility that the association would reject it. Mr. Fowler drew eight votes, to six for Dr. Dean

...

The association had sought to keep all its members from making an endorsement in hope of arriving at a consensus. But Dr. Dean picked off some influential chairmen - in particular, Scott Maddox of Florida - in a move that added momentum to his bid but stirred resentment among some state party leaders.

Dr. Dean's allies played down the significance of the vote, suggesting it was a gesture of respect for Mr. Fowler's father, Donald Fowler, a former Democratic chairman. One of his associates said Dr. Dean would rather face Donnie Fowler than Martin Frost, the former representative from Texas and a former head of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, who Democrats said emerged this weekend as the third of the top three candidates.

They said they viewed Mr. Frost, 63, given his stature and experience, as a stronger challenger for the job than Mr. Fowler, who is 37.

Well at least they got the facts right...looks like they have been reading MyDD none of this Time's BS about Fowler 1 vs Dean 0

Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.
by Parker on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 09:52:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Some people are funny.... (none / 0)

It is quite funny to see some members here absolutely flipping out on the premise that Fowler could get the chair.

Since some people are talking about him now, you automatically assume they're freepers and trolls. But did it ever occur to you that Fowler just had one of the best presentations on Saturday?

I'll make it clear that I support Howard Dean for Chair as my first choice, but if Fowler or Rosenberg got it, then it would still be okay.

You say Fowler is the faux reform candidate, but I don't think he's gonna win too much support from the Washington status quo with his speech yesterday.

But either way, I support Dean first and foremost.

by Thomas on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 10:13:51 AM EST

Sputter... (none / 0)

Actually, of the 7 I (and most of my group) would argue he had the worst presentation...by far. He was unfocused, rambled on between points without really making them, and didn't have much to say other than...

  1. I've worked in the grassroots.
  2. Consultants are bad (and as one of my delegation said..."so, he hates hismelf then?")

My comment in real time was "If I didn't know the backstory on them, I'd have had to put Roemer and Frost ahead of Fowler". The first time he's on Meet the Press, etc...the other side's rep will eat him for lunch.

IMO, Dean or Wellington made the best case to be chair, and Rosenberg proved that either of them should immediately make hiring him as Ops manager their first priority.

by ElitistJohn on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 11:05:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sputter... (none / 0)

I'd haev to agree with this assesment of Fowler's speach. His pandering almost made me sick, and his "don't you talk bad about my daddy" speech was more appropriate for high-school than for a DNC chair meeting. He also came off a little bit as a faux-"folksy" candidate.

That's not to say that I wouldn't support the guy, but Web, Rosenberg, and Dean defenitely took the day.

Future Majority / Young Philly Politics
by Alex Urevick on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 11:10:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sputter... (none / 0)

Yep. I would say his performamnce actually lowered my opinion of him. Until that point, I had assumed that he was basically a comptetent, qualified guy who I simply couldn't support based on the "not an aristocracy" argument.

After his bit, I decided he really was a lower qualified person who's been riding Daddy's position and connections all along. This vote has gone a long way to verifying that.

by ElitistJohn on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 11:21:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sputter... (none / 0)

Let's remember, not only has he worked in the grassroots, he's still got dirt under his fingernails from spending so much time in the grassroots!!
by sneemteam on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 11:13:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sputter... (none / 0)

In any case, done of these votes were decided on the basis of presentations, especially on this level.

They are decided on what is traded in the backrooms.

by nanorich on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 11:16:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sputter... (none / 0)

correction:

None of these votes were decided on the bases of presentations.

by nanorich on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 11:16:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Some people are funny.... (none / 0)

"But did it ever occur to you that Fowler just had one of the best presentations on Saturday?"

But he didn't. I was there. He was fine, but no way did he have one of the best presentations there. Webb and Rosenberg were both better received than Fowler, if audience feedback is anything to go by (and I mean downstairs, not in the balcony where us peasants sat, lol- we were mostly Dean in the peanut gallery)

by sneemteam on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 11:10:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Heh... (none / 0)

There were a whole lot of us on the floor too.
by ElitistJohn on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 11:31:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Heh... (none / 0)

ah-hah! Hence the title Elitist John, eh? Actually, I kind of liked the balcony; I like to observe without being observed, and this gave a great opportunity to watch the audience as well as the candidates.
by sneemteam on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 11:40:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]


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