Executive Committee of the ASDC Picks Donnie

by Matt Stoller, Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 07:25:20 PM EST

The son of former DNC Chair Don Fowler was endorsed by the Executive Committee of the Association of State Democratic Chairs:

Former Texas Rep. Martin Frost had been considered the front-runner among the Anybody-But-Dean crowd, which includes a large number of Democratic elected officials. But Dean has been the odds-on favorite, in part because the 478 delegates of the Democratic National Committee who will vote next month on the replacement for current chairman Terry McAuliffe are more liberal than many of the party's most prominent faces. House Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi of California and her counterpart in the Senate, Nevada's Harry Reid, are among those working behind the scenes to drum up anti-Dean sentiment, but other party stalwarts like Harold Ickes are backing the former presidential contender whose candidacy dissolved with a misplayed yowl in Iowa. Now Fowler thinks he has the inside shot to unseat Dean in much the same way that Kerry eclipsed the front-runner in 2004. "Inevitability is dead, just like it died in 2004," said Fowler in an interview.

And there we are.  Since I'm working for another candidate, I won't comment, but Jerome wanted me to blog this.


UPDATE: This was the 12 members of the ASDC executive committee, NOT the whole ASDC.

The ASDC executive committee is the highest decision-making body with the association, developing policies and programs for the full organization and working directly with national Democratic leaders to advance priorities of state parties. Each region of the country sends three representatives to the executive committee: a regional vice president, a state chair and vice chair.
Update II, by Jerome: Here are 12 ASDC Executive Committee members that are reported to have endorsed Donnie Fowler:
EXECUTIVE BOARD MEMBERS:

Mark Brewer, President, (Michigan); Paul Berendt, Vice-President, Vice-President (Washington); Raymond Buckley, Vice-President, (New Hampshire); Amy Burks, Vice-President (Alabama); L Carmichael, Ex-Officio Member (At-Large); Rickey Cole, Parliamentarian (Mississippi); Herman Farrell, Board Member (New York); Ann Fishman, Executive Director (Maryland); Chris Gates, Board Member (Colorado); Sue Hecht, Board Member (Maryland); Linda Honold, Board Member (Wisconsin); Carol Khare, Board Member (South Carolina)

Even among these 12, it could not have been a unanimous vote, as Paul Berendt publically endorsed Howard Dean 2 weeks ago, just before the State Chair election in Washington. Berendt was able to overcome Greg Rodriquez precisely because he backed Dean. I just made a few calls to Washington St., and talked with someone close to Berendt, whom told me that "yes, he's sticking to Dean".

Donnie Fowler and Mark Brewer got tight in Michigan where Fowler managed John Kerry's campaign in 2004, tight enough so that ASDC President Brewer & Fowler were able to dissiminate this public ASDC "endorsement" by the 12 executive committee members, even though it's got some holes. It might have been just a plurality of the 12 that "voted to endorse Donnie Fowler rather than Dean", as Time's Viveca A. Novak (who formally covered Clark's Presidential campaign while Donnie was around) framed the exclusive.

Update III, by Jerome (edit, 12's above should read 19's): The more I look into this, the less weight it carries. The are are only 4 5 State Chairs among the 12 19 (Brewer, Berendt, Buckley, Ferrell, and Cole), and 1 of those is backing Dean. So really, what we have here are some regional appointments of DNC members to the ASDC's Executive Committee, of whom a majority or a plurality backed Fowler, but not all, and there's no indication that they carry much influence. This "web exclusive" story is framed as the weight of the ASDC getting behind Fowler's candidacy, and meant to move the "Fowler 1, Dean 0" meme from the netroots to the newscycle. But in reality, it's more like Dean 50, Fowler 15, at this point in time.




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comment (3.00 / 0)

Jerome: So Dean is "dead" according to Donnie?  

Aristocracy: A hereditary ruling class; nobility.

by Jerome Armstrong on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 07:32:39 PM EST

Re: comment (none / 0)

How many votes is this.

No Donnie is a DEAD DUCK: who the hell does little Donnie think he is going to be Chairing?

A bunch of pissed off Dems who have gotten screwed once again by party nepotism...

Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.
by Parker on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 07:43:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: irony (none / 0)

NYTimes with a shamless quote from the unconscious Donnie: "The aristocracy of consultants in Washington, D.C., doesn't get it any more," said Mr. Fowler, who works as a consultant in South Carolina."

How many activists Showed Up in NYC (or Sacro, St. Louis, or Atlanta) because of Donnie? How many joined their local ADC, DCC, or Dem Club because of Donnie? How many gave hard earned cash to that milquetoast Kerry because of Donnie?

Oh yeah, Don Sr.'s son -- of the 5 out of 6 losing prez campaigns -- is soooo grassroots.
</sarcasm>

by candace in sonoma on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 11:23:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Great News (none / 0)

I think this is great news.  Either Fowler or Dean is sure to win now and both know the power of the netroots and will reform the dnc accordingly.
by Yellow Dog on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 07:36:32 PM EST

Re: Great News (none / 0)

Donnie is no friend of the netroots.
by CentrismIsForLosers on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 07:45:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Great News (none / 0)

What makes you say this?
by DavidNYC on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 07:46:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Great News (none / 0)

He sees us as an ATM.
by CentrismIsForLosers on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 08:20:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Great News (none / 0)

Do you have something to back that statement up with or are you just spouting BS?
Future Majority / Young Philly Politics
by Alex Urevick on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 08:29:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Great News (none / 0)

Just spouting.
"into your illusion, i make my intrusion"
by fng on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 09:43:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Great News (none / 0)

I attended the DNC regional meeting this weekend thinking I wasn't going to be impressed with Fowler, but after hearing him speak, I was floored...  He was extremely dynamic and had great ideas for a new direction of our party..  Kudos Donie!  

(And his interview with The Daily Show was hilarious)

by Bart Carter on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 07:51:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Great News (none / 0)

Funny, they weren't laughing in Michigan where he completely screwed up the Kerry/Edwards campaign
Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.
by Parker on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 07:56:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Great News (none / 0)

umm, we won MI
by Yellow Dog on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 08:00:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Great News (none / 0)

by less than Gore 2000
Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.
by Parker on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 08:01:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Great News (none / 0)

WRONG!  I just looked at Donnie's website, and he spicifically talks about this Michigan.. Take a look..  Changetheparty.com
by Bart Carter on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 08:03:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Great News (none / 0)

but we lost IA and NM that Gore carried.  We lost FL by a lot more.
by Yellow Dog on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 08:08:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Great News (none / 0)

Funny, I thought Kerry took MI, but I could be wrong..
by Bart Carter on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 08:01:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Great News (none / 0)

It was in play right up to the end and should never have been... my sister lives in MI and used to be very active in the party... she said it was clear to everyone the thing was muffed... but not just by Fowler. And she is no Dean lover either...

Not much good to say about how Michigan was managed.

by dryfly on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 10:45:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Does anyone have a take on where this puts us? (none / 0)

the pro-Dean group, that is.

What the...???

Who organized the ASDC vote?  What does it mean?

Come on, Matt.  Give us a clue.

BTW, if Donnie wants to make parallels with Kerry, go right ahead, pard'ner.

Look what happened to Kerry...is THAT where you want the party to be????????

by muddypaws on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 07:39:02 PM EST

Re: Does anyone have a take on where this puts us? (none / 0)

I'm not sure, but I'll take a stab at it.  ASDS has been organized by the State Democratic Chairs since December to endorse a candidate.  There are the most grassroots supporters on of the DNC since they are chosen in the states and not in D.C.  In my opinion this is good for the pro-Dean group because of everyone else in the race, Fowler is probably the most like Dean in his commitment to netroots and not conceding to Republicans or the "media" like fox, just like Dean.
by Yellow Dog on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 08:19:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

There is nothing Grassroot about the Exec Comm (3.00 / 0)

www.vademocrats.org :
The ASDC executive committee is the highest decision-making body with the association, developing policies and programs for the full organization and working directly with national Democratic leaders to advance priorities of state parties. Each region of the country sends three representatives to the executive committee: a regional vice president, a state chair and vice chair.

This is the group of people that would most likely be influenced by Estblishment types like little Donnie's Dad.

Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.
by Parker on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 08:26:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: There is nothing Grassroot about the Exec Comm (none / 0)

Not grassroots?!?  These people are elected by their peers in their respective states... If this were the national party making a reccomendation, your point may be valid, but state chairmans are the folks that have to do the actual work on the ground 24/7, 365.. These are the folks who help to elect the city managers, state auditors, and dog catchers.. None of the folks on the Exec Cmte sit in Washington or belong to the "establishment"...
by Bart Carter on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 08:32:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: There is nothing Grassroot about the Exec Comm (none / 0)

Uh...the whole problem with the DNC today is because they do NOT have a connection with the grassroots. There is no way you can call these people grassroots...they are still part of the structure that McAuliffe put together the DNC of BIG money and top down management.
Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.
by Parker on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 08:37:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: There is nothing Grassroot about the Exec Comm (none / 0)

Is that a bigger problem than the fact that nobody seems to know exactlly how all the DNC members became members?
The Democratic National Committee defenitely needs to be democatized.
Future Majority / Young Philly Politics
by Alex Urevick on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 08:47:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: There is nothing Grassroot about the Exec Comm (none / 0)

No where on the DNC site do they have all the member or even the statutes of how the damn organiszation is run...the DNC is as transparent as mud.
Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.
by Parker on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 08:54:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: There is nothing Grassroot about the Exec Comm (none / 0)

Right, and I think we're all in agreement that this needs to change. If we're really going to become involved in the party than we need, at the very least, to see how and why decissions are being made.
Future Majority / Young Philly Politics
by Alex Urevick on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 11:46:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: There is nothing Grassroot about the Exec Comm (none / 0)

The majority of members are elected in the States by the State Executive Committees.  75 Members are appointed by Terry and the remainders are elected by various associations such as the Democratic State Treaurers, Governors, Congress, the DLCC, YDA, CD etc.

It's all explained in the cryptic charter:

http://a9.g.akamai.net/7/9/8082/v002/www.democrats.org/pdfs/charter.pdf

by Yellow Dog on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 09:20:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: There is nothing Grassroot about the Exec Comm (none / 0)

Should you be making a disclosure?
Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.
by Parker on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 09:26:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

No they don't (none / 0)

That is why we are in a mess at the moment.
Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.
by Parker on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 08:37:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

That is why REFORM is needed (none / 0)


Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.
by Parker on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 08:38:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: That is why REFORM is needed (none / 0)

Which is why I'm happy that Dean or Fowler are the favorites since they are the only two who favor reform.
by Yellow Dog on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 08:42:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: There is nothing Grassroot about the Exec Comm (none / 0)

They represent the party structures in their respective states.

That is not grassroots.

They aren't DC insiders (for the most part) but grassroots they ain't.

The 10,000 Things
by Andrew C White on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 09:44:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Wow (none / 0)

This makes things really interesting. Multiple ballots, here we come.
by Chris Bowers on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 07:41:10 PM EST

Re: Wow (none / 0)

Ah... what odds are you giving on Dean taking it on the first ballot?
by DavidNYC on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 07:56:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wow (none / 0)

Well, if he doesn't get it on the first round, my guess is he's dead in the water.

Dean's defenitely seeems to be in the either love him or hate him category right now, and I have my doubts that more than 200 members of the DNC will fall into the first category. Just a suspician, but hey, what do I know...

Future Majority / Young Philly Politics
by Alex Urevick on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 08:32:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wow (none / 0)

F it.  If I am going to be in D.C. for the event, it might as well be a good show.

Tim

by Tim Tagaris on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 08:23:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Other Candidates (none / 0)

Just out of curiousity, what does this do to the other candidates in the race?

Thoughts?

by Yellow Dog on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 07:43:03 PM EST

wow (none / 0)

I posted earlier that Fowler had some momentum coming out of the NY meeting.  A good deal of the voters I talked to wanted to discuss him.

Interesting that the "anti-Dean" candidate is not so anti-Dean.

It Affects You -- Ross
by up2date on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 07:43:19 PM EST

Re: wow (none / 0)

Um, yes he is.  He is as insider as they come.

He was, for instance, a lobbyist for a right-wing group called Technet.

by CentrismIsForLosers on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 07:45:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It is pathetic... (none / 0)


Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.
by Parker on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 07:47:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: wow (none / 0)

Technet raises money for both sides and from what I've heard Fowler only raised money for the D side, and left because he was asked to do stuff for the R side. . .
by Yellow Dog on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 07:51:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: wow (none / 0)

Why was he there in the first place?
Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.
by Parker on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 08:28:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: wow (3.00 / 1)

It amazes me that Howard Dean, the self-appointed 'anti-consultant candidate' has more consultants working for him than any of the candidates in the race (other than Simon)..
by Bart Carter on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 07:55:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: wow (none / 0)

ummm... huh?

Where do you get that from? And then tell me who they are and maybe I can answer your question for you.

The 10,000 Things
by Andrew C White on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 09:50:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Not exactly (none / 0)

I met Fowler in NY a few weeks ago and I participated in a BlogPac call.  He's campaigned based on his long experience with and deep commitment to the grassroots.  His mantra has been to end the era of the "aristocracy of consultants" and one of his signature lines is that DNC should not stand for Do Not Change but instead it should be Do Not Concede.

As far as Technet, it's not a right-wing group, and he wasn't a lobbyist.  They are billed as a bipartisan group, and he only worked to raise money for Democrats.  

Fowler isn't my first choice, and I'm not thrilled with his work at Technet, but he's not the guy you're making him out to be, either.

It Affects You -- Ross
by up2date on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 07:57:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not exactly (none / 0)

if it can't be Dean, i want it to be Fowler.

www.democracyforamerica.com
www.changetheparty.com

by Yellow Dog on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 08:10:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not exactly (none / 0)

"He's campaigned based on his long experience with and deep commitment to the grassroots"

He sure does. Every time he opens his mouth he talks about his long and extensive grassroots  experience. But the fact is, he's 37, and he's spent a good bit of time in the private sector (as far as I understand)He talks like he's spent a lifetime with the grassroots- he actually said yesterday "I've got dirt under my fingernails from being in the grass roots so long"

I applaud anyone who works in the grassroots. But Donnie is just a little too full of fertilizer for my liking.

by sneemteam on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 09:41:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Heh! Good one. (none / 0)

That's what I think too.  Donnie Boy comes across as a bit of an opportunistic poseur, legacy with a sense of entitlement, hiding behind a "jus' folks" delivery. And I LIKE you, buddy, I really do! (TM Joe Biden)

He did put on a good show in NYC this weekend, and had some in the DNC crowd chanting along, but show it was, IMO.

by wishful thinking on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 03:55:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Time has the story now too (none / 0)

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1022630,00.html
by Yellow Dog on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 07:45:29 PM EST

How many votes is this??? (none / 0)

Anybody, anybody... Bueller
Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.
by Parker on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 07:46:59 PM EST

Who Cares What ASDC, SpongeBob, Etc. Think? ... (1.66 / 3)

Matt,

Who Cares What The ASDC, SpongeBob, Etc. Think?

Sure ... in a way I do ... but the bigger question is who do you think John Kerry really would like to be DNC Chair.

And since you work for Simon Rosenberg are on the inside ... let's be intelectually honest. Also, tell Simon to redouble his efforts ... he can win!

Matt, I really want to know what you think about why John Kerry did not endorse Howard Yeeeah Dean when Tim Russert asked the question today on Meet The press.

Democratic Dad believes John Kerry is not in favor of Howard Dean being the DNC Chair.

See the actual words Kerry spoke today on NBC's Meet The Press.

Kerry ... like many of the Democratic Party faithful realize we need more of a Modernizer like Simon Rosenberg than a devisive Spokesman like Howard Dean.

Tim Russert Interview Excerpt With John Kerry From Sunday 1/30/05 NBC MEET THE PRESS Concerning DNC Chairman http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6886726/

**

MR. RUSSERT:  During the campaign you said that Howard Dean did not have the credibility or judgment to be president.  Do you believe he has the credibility or judgment to be chairman of the Democratic National Committee?

SEN. KERRY:  Sure, absolutely.

MR. RUSSERT:  Do you support him?

SEN. KERRY:  I think Howard Dean proved during this campaign that he was really a loyal and go-to person.  He campaigned his heart out for me.  He wanted us to win.  And I'm very grateful to him for that--as did every other member who's running, incidentally--every other person running for the chairmanship.  They worked hard.  They're capable people and I think any one of them would be able to lead our party and be helpful.

And, you know, we're not looking for a spokesperson in the chairmanship.  I think if you talk to any of my colleagues or any people in the House or Senate or others, what we're looking for is somebody who's going to help the party modernize and do the things we need to do in order to be able to technically, organizationally, structurally be able to catch up to the Republicans.  We're behind.

And I think that--you know, if you figure--I mean, Karl Rove really had six years to prepare for Election Day.  We in many ways had only a few months, notwithstanding the outstanding work that Terry McAuliffe did, but Terry McAuliffe was struggling uphill.  We didn't have a president, we didn't have a House, we didn't have a Senate.  He did an amazing job of raising money, getting voter lists, putting the committee in the best position possible.  But he'd be the first to tell you, we still have a distance to travel in order to catch up.  And I think whoever is chosen as our new chairman, we're going to have a united Democratic Party that is working overtime to put those pieces in place

***

Kerry is being cryptic here:

He says we don't need a SPOKESMAN (he's probably alluding to Dean here)

He says we need a MODERNIZER (he's probably alluding to Rosenberg here ... or at the worst ABD .... anybody but Dean)

Matt ... why don't you guys (Theo etc) go for the Gold and get Kerry / Clinton / Bayh etc. all on the same day endorse Rosenberg.

Democratic Dad ... I only can father Democrats ... but I wouldlike to rear a few Republicans

by Democratic Dad on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 07:49:39 PM EST

Please link to posts this long Democratic Dad (none / 0)

You already posted this MTP discussion in a diary. Please link to a post this long in the future, it's disruptive and off topic. A lot of people pointed out that it's also misleading. A little consideration is in order.
by Gary Boatwright on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 08:00:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

R U A Dino (1.00 / 0)

Hey ... I was aking Matt (The Rosenberg Guy) to opine on this. Can you understand that?
by Democratic Dad on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 08:07:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Please link to posts this long Democratic Dad (none / 0)

He has spammed it across half the blogosphere, not just here.
by Curt Matlock on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 08:09:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Who Cares What ASDC, SpongeBob, Etc. Think? (2.50 / 2)

this same comment has been troll rated off the boards on Kos about 6 times
Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.
by Parker on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 08:03:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Where does this leave Rosenberg Matt? (none / 0)

I think Rosenberg is the clear second choice for the grassroots and maybe tied or even ahead among the netroots. Now Frost and Fowler are moving into second and third place? I think Chris is right and it's going to boil down to inside Dem politics on the second or third ballot.

I know there would be open rebellion in the grassroots and netroots if Frost wins and probably the same for Fowler, although he has a small cadre of netroots supporters. My take is that electing anyone aside from Dean or Rosenberg would send a message to the grassroots and the netroots that their opinion doesn't matter.

I think we all suspected that the reins of power would have to be forcibly removed from the cold dead hands of the DLC. Now that Roemer has fizzled, it looks like Pelosi and Reid pushing for Fowler or Frost. Are they unaware of the grassroots reaction this would cause or do they think we'll just get over it?

by Gary Boatwright on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 07:53:03 PM EST

Re: Where does this leave Rosenberg Matt? (3.00 / 2)

I was at the Roosevelt Hotel this weekend.  So this is my take, a lot of it from the lobby and the bar. I always classified the Dean, Rosenberg and Fowler as the reformers versus the standard party guys like Frost, Webb and Roemer prior to the ASDC endorsement which , by the way, as I was informed on Saturday , still has to be taken up by the the full 50 State Chairs and Vice Chairs.  This is a recommendation to them and as far as I know, not yet the endorsement of the 50 chairs.  But perhaps they changed it once again since I was told this on Saturday night.

I think in terms of being reformers that those three will all do a good job interms of building

  1. national party's infrastructure
  2. building up the state parties and running a national race

My third criteria was the ability to create an agenda for the pary leaders to be corraled into without knowing they are being corralled.  I thought Dean's ability to reframe and be forceful might accomplish this. A few weeks ago at a NY event I spoke to Fowler. (whose major problem I think is just that he is too cute and looks even younger than his 37 years, unlike Mehlman who is the same age but looks like Jack Benny lying about being 39)He knows that getting the elected officials together is important but says  that the DNC does not set policy. ( That is Rosenberg's position as well.)  Fowler knows, though, that  it's important to present a united front and have message discipline.

He may not be Howard Dean, whom I admire tremendously or Simon Rosenberg, but don't turn him into the AntiChrist.  He has the right instincts, he "gets it" a lot and he sees a lot of the party issues the way  many of us do.

Be happy that it's not Roemer and Frost seems to be losing momentum, because while I do think he is a partisan enough  Democrat, he in his guts just doesn't feel what the party needs.  Be happy it looks like it will be one of the three reformers.  

by debcoop on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 09:18:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Where does this leave Rosenberg Matt? (3.00 / 0)

DebCoop wrote:
"Frost seems to be losing momentum"

This appears to confirm what many seem to feel was Frost's disappointing performance yesterday morning.

First there was his very loud hectoring, almost abusive, opening speech where, among other things, he seemed to imply that the Dean folks weren't interested in the country's safety (terrible place to be saying it since it was New York which bore the brunt of the 9/11 attack and we REALLY RESENT being told we don't care about making the country safe; what some of these pro-war idiots don't seem to realize is that we have very strong ideas about how to make this country safe, and those ideas don't include stirring up a terrorists' hornet's nest by attacking a country which did not attack us and posed no threat to us).

Secondly, there was Frost's very odd, and even rather offensive, remarks about the fact that the Democratic Party needs to say that "we believe in God".  The latter was so out of line that I've taken the liberty of posting the sound-bite at http://criggs.home.pipeline.com/Frost.asx so you can judge it for yourself (including my impassioned heckle immediately following!).

I'm rather sure that cooler heads realized that Frost would never cut it as the anti-Dean candidate and they're now desperately casting about for an alternative.  Hence the Fowler endorsement.

It will be interesting to see if the ASDC chairs themselves, as opposed merely to their Executive Committee, follow suit.

Yours in reform,

Charles

by criggs on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 10:03:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Frost Clip Reaction (3.00 / 1)

Thanks for the report Charles. It was very enlightening.

While listening to the audiotape I was also taken aback by Martin Frosts comments.

Although I don't doubt his sincerity or his good intentions his comments regarding religion were exclusionary of non-Christians in the party.

I transcribed the clip you provided and wrote a short diary about my reaction to it.

by Curt Matlock on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 12:21:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Frost Clip Reaction (none / 0)

Curt Matlock wrote:
"I transcribed the clip you provided and wrote a short diary about my reaction to it."

I entirely endorse your sentiments in the diary entry.  I couldn't have put it better myself.  Thank you.

Yours in reform,

Charles

by criggs on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 01:22:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Follow the Bouncing Ball (none / 0)

Ickes endorses Dean; ASDC picks Fowler. He's a younger, more glib, Southern version of Terry McAuliffe. Nice person, but does not have the stature to overshadow the Clintons or Al Gore or whoever somehow thinks they already have the lock on the 2008 nomination.

Looking more and more like Republicans will hold onto the White House simply because if Dean runs for President in 08 he could split the Dems in half while picking up independent voters. I can't see states like Vermont or Maine picking Dean over Clinton...but I equally don't think Illinois or Michigan is going to be Dean-o-mite. Ergo, Jeb/Hagel/Romney will win around 260-280 of the electors. Even if there is no winner, the House would have to change complexion totally by '08 to not have "four more years".

And this is in spite of all the crap headed the Republicans way between then and now.

by risenmessiah on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 07:56:07 PM EST

Re: Follow the Bouncing Ball (none / 0)

except that Fowler has worked on the ground on states.  The best combo would be Dean as the nominee in '08 and fowler as chair, then the R's would be punk'd
by Yellow Dog on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 08:23:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Follow the Bouncing Ball (none / 0)

This is such bullshit because you know damn well Hill and Bill are going to go postal at anyone who challenges her.
Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.
by Parker on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 08:27:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Follow the Bouncing Ball (none / 0)

would it naive to think she might not run?  lol
by Yellow Dog on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 08:28:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Follow the Bouncing Ball (none / 0)

No...I tend to think if Bush looks strong in '08 still and someone with good name recognition (like Jeb) appears to be running Hillary might let a disciple of the Church of Clinton represent them...most likely Bill Richardson.

That's the other situation which could happen but less probable: the Clinton disciple talks out of both sides of his or her mouth so that everyone is none the wiser.

by risenmessiah on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 08:55:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Thanks for the update on the Exec. Comm. (3.00 / 0)

I was wondering how much weight their vote carried with the full ASDC. How many votes does the ASDC have anyway? I recall someone posting how the votes are broken down, but I can't find it. Anybody have a link?
by Gary Boatwright on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 07:56:46 PM EST

Re: Thanks for the update on the Exec. Comm. (none / 0)

I was just looking over the DNC Member list of those that are in the states, and sit on the the Executive Committee. The ASDC Executive committee is the 12 members, but I don't have a list that separates this executive committee from the DNC Executive Committee, or the ASDC (which doesn't have a website, duh) executive committee from the ASDC as a whole, so I don't want to put out names of who these 12 are, without knowing for sure.

But, Fowler Sr and Brewer are both in that 12, that seems given, and they hold a ton of sway in that group, as the former DNC Chair, and the current President of the ASDC.

I wonder if this all but kills the Fowler amendments, at least the one that rationed out 50 of the Executive committee seats to the State Chairs for their personal sugar daddys?

by Jerome Armstrong on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 08:43:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks for the update on the Exec. Comm. (none / 0)

The DNC Executive Committee is different that the ASDC Executive Committee.  Only State Party Chairs and Vice Chairs are on the ASDC Executive Committee so Fowler Sr. cannot be a member of the ASDC Executive Committee.
by Yellow Dog on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 08:49:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks for the update on the Exec. Comm. (none / 0)

Oh yea, thats right, Fowler is on the Exec Committee. So who is it besides Brewer then, that's on the ASDC executive committee?
by Jerome Armstrong on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 09:01:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks for the update on the Exec. Comm. (3.00 / 1)

EXECUTIVE BOARD MEMBERS:

Mark Brewer, President
Paul Berendt, Vice-President
Raymond Buckley, Vice-President
Amy Burks, Vice-President
L Carmichael, Ex-Officio Member
Rickey Cole, Parliamentarian
Herman Farrell, Board Member
Ann Fishman, Executive Director
Chris Gates, Board Member
Sue Hecht, Board Member
Linda Honold, Board Member
Carol Khare, Board Member

by Yellow Dog on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 09:05:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks for the update on the Exec. Comm. (none / 0)

Herman "Denny" Farrell is New York State Chair
The 10,000 Things
by Andrew C White on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 09:27:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks for the update on the Exec. Comm. (none / 0)

#  Teresa Krusor  Board Member
# Dennis Langley Vice-President
# Ron Oliver Board Member
# Bob Ream Board Member
# Meredith Smith Board Member
# Art Torres Chairman

Why did you leave thes people off the list?

Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.
by Parker on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 09:42:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks for the update on the Exec. Comm. (none / 0)

They don't have a vote.
by Jerome Armstrong on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 09:45:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks for the update on the Exec. Comm. (none / 0)

Why it doesn't say that on the website?
Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.
by Parker on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 09:52:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks for the update on the Exec. Comm. (none / 0)

"Each region of the country sends three representatives to the executive committee: a regional vice president, a state chair and vice chair."
by Jerome Armstrong on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 09:55:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks for the update on the Exec. Comm. (none / 0)

Linda Honold is also the state chair of the Wisconsin State Party so the board members of the ASDC may also be chairs of their state parties.  There will be a ripple effect.  

But if this is still just a recommendation to the rest of the ASDC rather than an accepted endorsement it could be a smaller rather than a bigger ripple.

by debcoop on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 11:13:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks for the update on the Exec. Comm. (none / 0)

Jerome

Herman "Denny" Farrell may be a board member of the ASDC but he is also the chair of the New York State Democratic Committee.  And by my perhaps inaccurate count directly inflences maybe 14 0f the of the 22 DNC members from NY.  

I don't know who he voted for in the ASDC recommendation, however.  I have been told it was not unanimous.

But he also becomes a new dad just prior to the DNC meeting on the 12th so he'll be busy, but I am sure he will make some kind of effort to let his preferences be known.

by debcoop on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 10:51:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks for the update on the Exec. Comm. (none / 0)

# Bonnie Watson-Coleman
Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.
by Parker on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 09:52:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks for the update on the Exec. Comm. (none / 0)

DNC Executive Committee, not ASDC I think
by Yellow Dog on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 10:02:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks for the update on the Exec. Comm. (none / 0)

They are all listed on the website you gave in the same list as the others.
Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.
by Parker on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 10:07:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks for the update on the Exec. Comm. (none / 0)

my bad then, got it off another post.  

I think my initial post of it being comprised of State Chairs and Vice Chairs is still correct though?

by Yellow Dog on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 10:11:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks for the update on the Exec. Comm. (none / 0)

I'm curious if this is some power play by Brewer - flexing the muscles of the ASDC.  His position is elected.
by vault5151 on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 12:10:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Big Donnie (none / 0)

www.changetheparty.com :
Today, the executive committee of the Democratic Party's state chairs endorsed me for DNC chair. This was a watershed event on the road to the February 12 election and came down to a one-on-one vote with Governor Howard Dean.

So I gues Big Donnie's vote made the difference

Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.
by Parker on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 08:51:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Big Donnie (none / 0)

As I just posted Fowler Sr. did not have a vote.
by Yellow Dog on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 08:58:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Big Donnie (none / 0)

Don Sr. can't vote
by Bart Carter on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 10:11:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks for the update on the Exec. Comm. (none / 0)

Inside skinny: The committee recomended Don Fowler be elected Chair by an 8-6 vote.
Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.
by Parker on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 10:57:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks for the update on the Exec. Comm. (none / 0)

What does this mean, really?

I was at yesterday's meeting, and I thought Fowler was the most aggressive speaker there. He bashed the DNC repeatedly, and I thought threw out a lot of red meat...Dean looked positively tame next to fowler.
So I just don't get where this endorsement came from, to be honest. Are these people endorsing him because of his father?

And does this mean Fowler will become the anti-Dean, or will it make Dean look like the better choice?

by sneemteam on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 08:45:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

How long 'til the sky falls? (3.00 / 0)

This looks like it could play out all too familiarly, Ickes endorses Dean, insiders buzz that it might be over, then Fowler comes out of nowhere as the safe choice for Democrats....

And for the Clinton conspiracy theorists out there I propose this:  Don't you think the Ickes endorsement might be partly due to the fact that they'd rather have Dean at the DNC than challenging Hillary in the 2008 primaries?

by AnotherUnemployedDNCStaffer on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 08:17:13 PM EST

Re: How long 'til the sky falls? (none / 0)

Interesting theory. . .

What do you think this does to the other candidates in the race?

by Yellow Dog on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 08:28:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How long 'til the sky falls? (none / 0)

Ickes was thrown out there to keep people off of Hilliary's scent...of her backstabbing Dean.
Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.
by Parker on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 08:31:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Who's on the ASDC Executive Committee, you ask? (3.00 / 1)

Here is the link to their website:

http://www.stateparty.org/index.php?display=StaffLeaders

EXECUTIVE BOARD MEMBERS:

Mark Brewer, President
Paul Berendt, Vice-President
Raymond Buckley, Vice-President
Amy Burks, Vice-President
L Carmichael, Ex-Officio Member
Rickey Cole, Parliamentarian
Herman Farrell, Board Member
Ann Fishman, Executive Director
Chris Gates, Board Member
Sue Hecht, Board Member
Linda Honold, Board Member
Carol Khare, Board Member

by Pat on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 09:03:40 PM EST

Simon (none / 0)

So does this help or hurt Rosenberg?
The Kentucky Democrat
by kydem on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 09:44:41 PM EST

Okay this is still not making sense (none / 0)

HOW MANY VOTES DID FOWLER PICK UP TODAY.

If you look at the website it lists 15 members of the Exec Committee not 12. Now with the update does this mean that they are voting in a block or that Fowler just got the majority yet the members will still vote their convictions???

Somebody, anybody...Bueller?

Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.
by Parker on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 09:49:09 PM EST

disclose and then post away (none / 0)

"And there we are.  Since I'm working for another candidate, I won't comment, but Jerome wanted me to blog this."

It seems disingenuous at the least to publicly disclose a conflict of interest and then post personal opinion in the same thread, ne? If you won't comment, then don't.

And yes, I support Donnie for the job.

"into your illusion, i make my intrusion"
by fng on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 09:55:20 PM EST

Re: disclose and then post away (none / 0)

The personal "opinions" in the updates were noted as mine.
by Jerome Armstrong on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 09:58:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: disclose and then post away (none / 0)

Bad read on my part...sorry.
"into your illusion, i make my intrusion"
by fng on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 10:08:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: disclose and then post away (none / 0)

It is yellow dog that needs some disclosure....
Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.
by Parker on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 10:06:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: disclose and then post away (none / 0)

okay, then let's ALL tag our posts until Feb. 12 with the candidate we support.
"into your illusion, i make my intrusion"
by fng on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 10:09:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Fresh Face (none / 0)

Has there been any thought given to the fact that the State Chairs know that the Party needs a fresh face with experience in the states to run the DNC? Someone with new ideas, true, but also someone who doesn't carry the baggage of a Dean or Frost, who have not only created allies in their careers but created plenty of enemies as well.
Fowler could easily be a unifying figure as DNC Chair - he has no entrenched interests or eneimies. Rosenberg is close to that as well, although his association with the DLC may not sit well in some corners. Wellington Webb is also someone no one talks about - but he has the right outsider credentials.
by fourfreedoms on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 10:08:43 PM EST

Re: Fresh Face (none / 0)

it is called nepotism...

or haven't you seen the tremendous response given to Dean.

Did you see people organize carpools to go and see Donnie NO?.

And you know what Dean did not have to ask them or organize it for them ...that was the real grassroots in action...what did the grassroots do for Donnie...more like he got his father to twist a few arms.

What the DNC need s most at this moment is a person to insprire people to "SHOW UP" and ge involved you may call that baggage I prefer to call it gravitas  and Dean has it in Spades.

Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.
by Parker on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 10:18:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fresh Face (none / 0)

It is a difficult pill to swollow that one person could twist that many arms of some people who proably value thier independence (state chairs).  I think Dean would be a great chair, I just also think Fowler would be a great chair.  What I don't understand is why you seem to be so intent on bashing a guy who has worked in so many different places for democrats.  He's one of us, just like Dean is one of us.  It's not as though he's a Republican, or a D.C. insider, or someone who hates the idea that the netroots will have a say (I'm not going to say who that might be).
by Yellow Dog on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 10:32:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fresh Face (3.00 / 2)

What I don't understand is why you seem to be so intent on bashing a guy who has worked in so many different places for democrats. ORANGES
Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.
by Parker on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 10:39:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fresh Face (none / 0)

Did anyone organize to come see Donnie in Atlanta, St.Louis, Sacramento or New York...NO
Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.
by Parker on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 10:44:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fresh Face (none / 0)

"Did you see people organize carpools to go and see Donnie NO?"

This is so true.

Dean has an amazingly loyal (and good looking!) group of supporters

Today here in NY, Dean had a rally with supporters in the SEIU building. Newsday  estimated that there were 300 people there, Dean himself said there were 500. My point is that these people are incredibly loyal and dedicated to Dean himself. I'm sure it's the same around the country. I find it incredibly sad that the DNC would be willing to throw that away...

by sneemteam on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 10:33:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fresh Face (none / 0)

They think we are going to be as gulable like we were supporting Kerry. This time that dog don't bite. It is time to go to the dance with the one who brought us.
Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.
by Parker on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 10:38:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fresh Face (none / 0)

Exactly.

That's why I'm saying if it can't be Dean it should be Fowler because based upon what he is saying he is the least likely to throw away the netroots, and the least likely to shun Dean.  Do you honestly believe that there are a lot of candidates in this race who would incorporate Dean and us into the DNC.  NO!  Short of Dean himself, Fowler is the only one who would (maybe, maybe Simon).  I think this is a real victory for us because this shows that the far majority of the DNC Members see the power of the netroots beyond an ATM since Dean and Fowler are the candidates they are considering.

by Yellow Dog on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 10:38:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fresh Face (none / 0)

It is time to go to the dance with the one who brought us. This is a Kerry Redux...
Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.
by Parker on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 10:41:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fresh Face (none / 0)

But do we need a chair who will bring so much baggage to the job? Fowler, Webb, and Rosenberg are chided for being unknowns, but that provides a major advantage when it come to party building and message creation. My only hestation with Rosenberg would be his ability to unify the party and reconcile labor to his vision. Dean's party building largely occured before he accumulated the high negatives, and I doubt he would be as effective now
by fourfreedoms on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 11:27:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fresh Face (none / 0)

DFA is larger now than it was during the campaign.
Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.
by Parker on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 12:11:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fresh Face (none / 0)

Why do you keep insisting that Dean and Fowler are the only reform candidates? Isn't Rosenberg just as much of a reform candidate as Fowler and Dean?
by Gary Boatwright on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 12:09:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fresh Face (none / 0)

Good point.  All three would be great.  I think we're all just fixated on these two because it seems (though who knows with this process) that they are the two reformers with a real chance.
by Yellow Dog on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 12:14:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fresh Face (none / 0)

Signing up today for an account, are we?
by Matt Stoller on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 10:54:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fresh Face (none / 0)

lol, workin the netroots.
by Jerome Armstrong on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 11:02:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fresh Face (none / 0)

So did yellow dog
Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.
by Parker on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 11:03:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I wouldn't read too much into new status here (none / 0)

If I get your meaning (that new posters here are possibly new to blogging and/or plants for a DNC candidate who isn't really hooked into the netroots and wants to infiltrate them).

I just signed up this weekend too because Driving Votes asked us to blog about the DNC Caucus here, and stayed around to read and contribute to others.  I'm usually on Dkos (under wont get fooled again) and that took up most of my blog time.  And I'm pro-Dean.

by wishful thinking on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 04:36:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fresh Face (none / 0)

Okay Jerome, and Matt too now, my post earlier about the disingenuous nature of the opinions is appropos. I think, honestly, that in this case a disclosure followed ny comments is not productive to the thread about what the endorsement means.
"into your illusion, i make my intrusion"
by fng on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 11:41:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fresh Face (none / 0)

What the hell are you talking about, in english.
by Jerome Armstrong on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 11:49:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Matt ... Answer The Question (1.00 / 0)

Matt, I really want to know what you think about why John Kerry did not endorse Howard Yeeeah Dean when Tim Russert asked the question today on Meet The press.

Don't you think that Kerry is telegraphing you guys a message here?

by Democratic Dad on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 08:12:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Cheese Fondue (none / 0)

Special equipment: a fondue pot

1     clove garlic, halved crosswise
1 1/2     cups dry white wine
1     tablespoon cornstarch
2     teaspoons kirsch
1/2     lb emmenthaler cheese, coarsely grated (2 cups)
1/2     lb gruyere, coarsely grated (2 cups)

Accompaniment
    cubes French bread, on fondue forks or long wooden skewers

6 servings

   1. Rub inside of a 4-quart heavy pot with cut sides of garlic, then discard garlic.
   2. Add wine to pot and bring just to a simmer over moderate heat.
   3. Stir together cornstarch and kirsch in a cup.
   4. Gradually add cheese to pot and cook, stirring constantly in a zigzag pattern (to prevent cheese from balling up) until cheese is just melted and creamy. Do not let boil.
   5. Stir cornstarch mixture again and stir into fondue.
   6. Bring fondue to a simmer and cook, stirring, until thickened, 5 to 8 minutes.
   7. Transfer to fondue pot set over a flame and serve with bread for dipping.

Before you win, you have to fight. Come fight along with us at TexasKaos.
by boadicea on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 04:14:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Huh? (none / 0)

So, now I'm pretty thoroughly confused. If it was a plurality vote, we really have no idea of how many votes each one had, do we? I mean, some of the votes could have gone to other candidates too, right? It could have been 4 - 3, with the other votes sprinkled amongst the others.

It's hard to read what this will mean. How much weight does this endorsement carry?

by sneemteam on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 10:13:45 PM EST

Re: Huh? (none / 0)

Well it is telling that the exec comm nor Donnie has specified exactly what it means...so far in the space of a few hours the speculation has gonge from 110 votes (25% of DNC) to 12 to 15 votes to somewhere less than that because Committee members are still committed to Dean.
Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.
by Parker on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 10:20:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Huh? (none / 0)

The "real serious 'cause I'm curious" question: Where was the speculation 110 votes?

The "hold on there pardner" questions: Why so quick to slam an endorsement? Doesn't seem that even Roemer was slammed this much when he picked up two pro-choice, woman endorsements from CA. But Donnie gets a major endorsement and you try to destroy it before the morning papers are even out?

And yeah, I'd call it major. If the AFL-CIO comes out with an endorsement for anyone in the next few days, it will be major. Will every member or affiliate or ally of the AFL-CIO vote the way of the endorsement? I doubt it. But the endorsement itself will be extremely meaningful.

Same with ASDC. It shows that no matter your personal opinions, there are serious people within the Democratic Party who feel that Donnie is a credible candidate and deserves to be Chair.

"into your illusion, i make my intrusion"
by fng on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 10:30:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Huh? (none / 0)

Well, then they can be the ATMs and carry the water...
Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.
by Parker on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 10:43:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Huh? (none / 0)

"Well, then they can be the ATMs and carry the water... "

I don't think that can be said enough... I don't worship the ground Dean walks on but he is the man for this job now... Contrary to what the insiders think... ideas and vision matter... I've read Fowlers website... nice... but how does it change the party really... what do we believe... how does any of what is said there make a difference.

Money will follow passion... passion does not always follow the money. This party needs to rediscover passion and fast.

It is Deans time. If the party misses this boat it could be along time until another one comes along...

by dryfly on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 11:04:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Huh? (none / 0)

You're right, Dean is the man for this job, and this is his time. This party needs him. Are they really so spineless and self destructive that they don't see that?

Fowler is fine, but he's just can't offer everything that Dean can (and hopefully, will)

by sneemteam on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 11:18:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Huh? (none / 0)

I don't feel so cynical yet to believe that Donnie is of the "ATM" variety. Nothing he has said OR done as a party activist on the ground leads me to believe that he would suffer from ATM-syndrome. Even non-supporters have posted here, at Kos, and elsewhere (BurntOrange, Annatopia) that they believe Donnie "gets it."

The ASDC Exec Committee is saying that Donnie gets it and that they want him to help them (and the rest of the Party) 'carry the water' together. If you think someone else is better, say so (as some have done above and below on this thread).

"into your illusion, i make my intrusion"
by fng on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 11:47:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Inside skinny (none / 0)

The committee recomended Don Fowler be elected Chair by an 8-6 vote.
Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.
by Parker on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 10:32:53 PM EST

Re: Inside skinny (none / 0)

Here's guessing the recommended Donnie Fowler.
"into your illusion, i make my intrusion"
by fng on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 10:35:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Inside skinny (none / 0)

That's what I know too. 6-8, Dean vs. Fowler

The exec committee vote is an advisory vote to the entire ASDC, which votes their recommendation tomorrow. The recommendation coming out of the entire body could very well be different.

The state chair's association has been asking their members and whatever DNC members they can influence in each state to withhold public comment in hopes that the ASDC could get all the candidates to agree to things the states wanted. Then, the idea is to vote as a block.

Realistically, that probably won't happen. Many delegations will split their vote, and given the closeness of today's vote, it doesn't exactly look like they reached consensus. I don't know what that means as far as "power to the states."

You should expect to hear a lot of announcements of endorsements right after the vote tomorrow morning. At that point, state chairs, vice chairs, and elected committee members will feel free to break their silence.

by Jenny Greenleaf on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 11:32:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Inside skinny (none / 0)

then who is left to vote in Feb. 12?
Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.
by Parker on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 12:15:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Inside skinny (none / 0)

Lots of people. This action commits 14 votes. The members of ASDC all vote as a body on a recommendation, then they will, on Feb. 12 either vote with that recommendation or for someone else.

For example, my vice-chair voted as part of the exec committee of ASDC, but the exec committee recommendation is not in any way binding on my vote nor on the votes of the others in our delegation.

Of the 447 votes, this commits 14. They hope to get the rest of the ASDC to vote as a bloc, but I don't think that will happen. It's too divided.

by Jenny Greenleaf on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 01:44:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

state chair from ny is on that list (none / 0)

"The more I look into this, the less weight it carries. The are are only 4 State Chairs among the 12 (Brewer, Berendt, Buckley, and Cole), and 1 of those is backing Dean."

I'm guessing that "herman ferrell," who is listed as a board member from new york, is the same as Herman "Denny"Farrell, who is the State Chair from NY.  

by theshelldog on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 11:13:43 PM EST

Re: state chair from ny is on that list (none / 0)

yep, thanks, I guess I missed that one.
by Jerome Armstrong on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 11:50:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

OK, my two cents for what is worth (3.00 / 2)

ah, two cents.

This is good news no matter what camp you're in. This means some more voting members swing toward the reform camp. This washes out status quo members on the first vote. This is a good thing.

Down side is that Fowler Sr. seems to have a hand in this. The nepostism claim, whether real or assumed, is something that smacks of old time smoke filled rooms. That's too close to status quo for my tastes.

The way this announcement is being touted is also something that bothers me. You know, the way really high budget low quality movies always have the coolest trailers that get the most PR push. Then you see the movie and find out it isn't all that it was cracked up to be. This endorsement smacks of this practice.

This does however follow suit of the read on Fowler by those following this. He's a great talker who seems to pad his resume. This endorsement seems to fit that description.

Give it a few days to shake out. If anyone was strong armed, I think we'll hear about it right quick. If the vote was divided, I'm sure the Dean people with speak up.

Again, I think much of the emotion here is residual from Dean's experience in Iowa. Too many of us are hoping for vindication and retribution at the expense of the party leadership through a Dean victory. As much as I fall prey to this, we have to move beyond it.

Dean is smarter than he was a year ago. He's built alliances he didn't have a year ago. This only makes the race more interesting.

Regardless, reform is winning at the moment. If Dean isn't the chair, he's freed up for 2008. The one dissapointing issue for me is that if Dean is not the chair, I don't see him being given a role within the party structure.

If Dean is chair, I can see Rosenburg and even Fowler working with him in the party structure. Dean is now too big to play second fiddle. He'd overshadow almost anyone. Maybe he'd still work as a VP, but not second anywhere else.

I'm trying not to get my hopes up for Dean and look at the big picture of reform of the Democratic party. But damn it all, it does remind me way too much of Iowa.

Witty comment goes here...
by michael in chicago on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 11:31:56 PM EST

This is only bad news for... (none / 0)

Simon Rosenberg -- he took a big hit in the ABD race.  With Frost/Roemer fading, Rosenberg/Fowler is the ABD race to watch.  It appears there may be a "flight to quality" in the son of a former Chairman.  The old guard may figure that Sr. can keep Jr. in line.  It also wouldn't surprise me if bitterman DLC reptile Al From is working behind the scenes to screw Rosenberg and make Fowler the final ABD firewall.

For Dean, it's no surprise that the senior members in the party are polarized about Dean -- he's either a first choice or a last choice.  The real question is whether that first choice/last choice dynamic plays out in the full membership.  If Dean doesn't get into the 40+% range in the first round he may be in trouble.

by Steve in Sacto on Mon Jan 31, 2005 at 03:37:33 AM EST


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