MyDD :: Ickes backs Dean for DNC Chair

Ickes backs Dean for DNC Chair

by Jerome Armstrong, Fri Jan 28, 2005 at 07:40:07 PM EST

Harold Ickes, a leading Democratic activist and former aide to President Clinton, said Friday he is backing Howard Dean to be chairman of the Democratic National Committee - giving a powerful boost to the front-runner. ``I think all the candidates who are running have strong attributes, but Dean has more of the attributes than the others,'' said Ickes, who considered running for chairman himself before dropping out in early January. ``Many people say Howard Dean is a northeastern liberal, he is progressive, but his tenure as governor of Vermont was that of a real moderate.'' Ickes, who heads the political action committee of Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, D-N.Y., said the endorsement was his alone and ``does not reflect Sen. Clinton's opinion.'' While Ickes would not comment on the Clintons' preferences, he is a close ally and would not be endorsing Dean against their strong objections. No one was immediately available in Sen. Clinton's office to comment.

Dean gets the ASDC now, and the singing can begin.

Tags: Democrats (all tags)

Permalink :: 41 Comments :: Post a Comment

wow (none / 0)

The Clintons signaling their approval?

They must have figured it best to hand over a figleaf since Dean is looking very strong right now. This might be over. Rock on.

by descrates on Fri Jan 28, 2005 at 07:50:49 PM EST

Really Huge (none / 0)

While the Guardian article you linked did not have a comment from Senator Clinton's office, the Yahoo News version of the story did. Officially, Senator Clinton has no dog in this hunt.

Taken together with the endorsements Dean has already received, particularly Florida, this means that the "Howard Dean is too out there for this job" argument is dead.

Will it provoke the same kind of "Everybody Get Howard" response that the Gore endorsement did in December 2003?

Jerome. Question. When you say "Dean gets the ASDC now," should the word "if" be implied at the beginning of the sentence?

Do you think Ickes endorsement was timed to influence ASDC?

by James Earl on Fri Jan 28, 2005 at 07:52:26 PM EST

Re: Really Huge (none / 0)

Hmmmm....

I still see this going either way. Hilliary is now afraid of being tainted as the backroom backstabbing "woman" (which she is) this may be a way to publically show support while continuing to operate the knife in the backroom...or they have given up and are plying nice with Dean.

Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.

by Parker on Fri Jan 28, 2005 at 08:19:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Really Huge (3.00 / 0)

No, Ickes has no influence over the ASDC, that's for sure. If anything though, it's a signal that Ickes, who probably wants to remain on the DNC, and that the Clinton's too, see what's coming, and are slightly ahead of the curve, jumping on the bandwagon.

While Ickes would not comment on the Clintons' preferences, he is a close ally and would not be endorsing Dean against their strong objections.

"Senator Clinton is neutral in the race for DNC chair," said her spokesman, Philippe Reines. "She looks forward to working with the next chairman of the Democratic National Committee."

Ickes and Clinton both think that's Dean.

by Jerome Armstrong on Fri Jan 28, 2005 at 08:22:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Really Huge (none / 0)

Really huge indeed. I can't see anyway to interpret this then the Clintons throwing in the towel, accepting what they see as the inevitable, and deciding to make the best of it.

They were the only ones capable of stopping Dr. Dean... other than labor. It is now up to labor. Sew that one up and it really is all over.

The 10,000 Things

by Andrew C White on Fri Jan 28, 2005 at 10:01:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Really Huge (none / 0)

Exactly how I read this.

Ickes finger in air tells him Dean is going to win.
Once they believe Dean is inevitable then fighting it only hurts them.

by JoelK in AZ on Sat Jan 29, 2005 at 02:56:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I hope (3.00 / 0)

That someone encourages Dean to reach out to Fowler and Rosenberg when he wins, and he WILL win.

Fowler and Rosenberg are smart motherfuckers.
We need them.

Actually, we need ALL the candidates. Even Roemer.
United, bitches.

by Sam Loomis on Fri Jan 28, 2005 at 07:53:06 PM EST

Count On It (3.00 / 0)

Howard Dean understands that working with other people to build the party is the most important part of the DNC chair's job. He campaigned very hard for John Kerry, showing that he doesn't let past rivalry get in the way.

I don't know about Fowler, but if Rosenberg doesn't get DNC chair, I would expect him to continue with what he is doing. I hope he can supplant the DLC as the "centrist" organization in the party.

by James Earl on Fri Jan 28, 2005 at 08:47:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

hear. hear! (3.00 / 0)

a fe weeks back i proposed this:

dean for dnc chair
rosenberg for executive director
fowler for field director

i'll append that by saying that all the candidates in the running bring some strengths to the table. it would be great if we could get them all to work together somehow.

Visit us at TexasKAOS, where we're taking Texas back!

by annatopia on Fri Jan 28, 2005 at 09:37:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I hope (none / 0)

Fowler, Rosenberg, and Frost.

And I doubt he'll wait until it is over. The phones may have already rung. I'm fairly certain the underlings have already met and discussed the possibilities.

The 10,000 Things

by Andrew C White on Fri Jan 28, 2005 at 10:02:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

If Hillary is running in 2008, (none / 0)

I don't think she'll back anybody for DNC chair until they've already got the position. This may be as close to an endorsement as we can expect from her.

Are we safer yet?

by catastrophile on Fri Jan 28, 2005 at 08:00:52 PM EST

Hopefully this is telling (none / 0)

Clintons are smart. None of their candidates are winning. If Hillary wants a run at it in 2008 she's being wise to keep the potential DNC chair on her good side.

Politics.

Now if Dean does win, it will be interesting to see how they try to control him.

Dean must be doing a great deal of wooing with the Clintons for this to happen.

Witty comment goes here...

by michael in chicago on Fri Jan 28, 2005 at 08:17:23 PM EST

Re: Hopefully this is telling (none / 0)

if Dean does win, it will be interesting to see how they try to control him.

What you haven't seen all of these 'pleas' for Rosenberg to be second in command...just to keep an eye on things?

Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.

by Parker on Fri Jan 28, 2005 at 08:21:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hopefully this is telling (none / 0)

If that's the concession to buy the Clinton's support, I can live with that.

I wouldn't mind Rosenburg and Fowler in positions of leadership right along with Dean. He's the one I believe in the most strongly, but all three want to reform the party pretty radically. If Dean is in the Chair position, I kind of hope that the other two true reform candidates are also in leadership positions too.

Witty comment goes here...

by michael in chicago on Sat Jan 29, 2005 at 12:09:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Catching up on some reading: (none / 0)

From The Hill

The prospects of an endorsement may hinge on the AFL-CIO's ability to reach a consensus position on a single candidate, said two political directors who wanted to remain anonymous. Absent a clear choice, the individual unions are likely to announce their own favorites, which would carry much less impact and be diluted by competing endorsements.

Union sources said that Frost appeared to have the upper hand on Dean but that if Dean appears too strong to stop, the labor movement would be unlikely to expend capital to defeat him and would not want to back a candidate, such as Frost, in the process.

From Salon, some good graphs, and look at Anna in there:

...In former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean, progressive Democrats see a charismatic outsider who can revolutionize the party by drawing on the grass roots and "net roots" support that drove his presidential campaign. In former Texas Rep. Martin Frost, moderate and conservative Democrats see an experienced Washington hand who helped the party pick up congressional seats even in the dark days of Newt Gingrich's "Contract for America."

Neither Dean nor Frost has yet clinched the 224 votes needed to win the chairmanship, and it's not clear that either can get there. Dean's support may max out far short of 224 -- there are "a lot of Washington insiders worried about losing their meal ticket," a veteran Democratic strategist told Salon this week -- and Frost may not be able to win over reform-minded DNC members currently loyal to Dean. That leaves room for a consensus to emerge around lesser known candidates -- New Democrat Network president Simon Rosenberg or Democratic strategist Donnie Fowler -- if neither Dean nor Frost wins on the first ballot.

...And former Indiana Rep. and 9/11 commissioner Tim Roemer, who, made a splash early in the race with a report that he had the support of Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid and House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi, has seen his campaign begin to crumble over concerns about his personal opposition to abortion. Pelosi isn't endorsing him, and her spokeswoman insists that she never did -- that she only "encouraged" him to "get in the race" because of his credibility on national security issues.

...It may not ultimately be Frost or Dean, but right now it's all Frost or Dean, and that's precisely what has so many Democrats in so much despair. The Dean-friendly blogosphere is unloading on Frost for running a TV commercial during his 2004 campaign in which he seemed to align himself with George W. Bush and other Washington Republicans. "Who backed President Bush?" the ad's announcer asked. "Kay Hutchison and Martin Frost . . . Speaker Hastert and Martin Frost . . . John McCain and Martin Frost." Daily Kos blogger Markos Moulitsas, who worked briefly for Dean's presidential campaign, says that Frost's ads make him "grossly unqualified" for the chairmanship. "If you spend a year distancing yourself from the Democratic Party and sucking up to Bush, Hastert and Hutchinson, then you have no business trying to run the Democratic Party," Moulitsas wrote on his blog last week. Rosenberg, one of the candidates Moulitsas is backing in the DNC race, is only a little more equivocal about the ads, calling them "very problematic" for a man who wants to lead the Democratic Party.

Frost and his supporters see it otherwise, of course. "My God, he was running in Texas," says New Mexico Attorney General Patricia Madrid, one of a handful of DNC members who have endorsed Frost publicly. Madrid said the ads show only that Frost is a "pragmatist" who "knows what he has to do to win."

... With Roemer, Webb and Leland seemingly far from the front, Fowler and Rosenberg appear to be in the best position to prevail if anti-Dean voters keep Dean from winning and Frost fails to win over enough "anybody but Dean" voters. Fowler and Rosenberg are both young, and they both argue that they're best-of-both-worlds alternatives to Dean and Frost. "What you get with me is a proven track record of winning in red states and the proven history of working with grass roots and 'net roots,'" Rosenberg said. Not surprisingly, there's a fair amount of sniping between Fowler and Rosenberg camps. Rosenberg's aides grumble that Fowler is running on the coattails of his father, former DNC chairman Don Fowler. Fowler, in turn, dismisses Rosenberg as an articulate guy who is "winning the chattering classes in San Francisco and New York" but not making much progress with voting members of the Democratic National Committee.

Fowler and Rosenberg both talk a good game about being first-tier candidates, but their real job now is to build enough support to make sure they survive the first ballot -- in each round of voting on Feb. 12, the candidate with the least votes drops out -- and then to make sure that they're the second or third choice of a whole lot of DNC voters. "Howard Dean can't win if he doesn't win outright on the first ballot," Rosenberg says.

by Jerome Armstrong on Fri Jan 28, 2005 at 08:36:19 PM EST

BS from Rosenberg (none / 0)

"Howard Dean can't win if he doesn't win outright on the first ballot," Rosenberg says.

When Webb drops, I would expect virtually all of his supporters to jump to Dean. So Dean could easily fall short on the first ballot but win once you add in the Colorado and African-American delegates who prefer to show their support for Webb on the first ballot.

Since Webb endorsed Dean for President, I wouldn't at all be surprised if he endorsed Dean for DNC after he is eliminated. If it goes past the first ballot, I would expect the order of elimination to be:

Leland
Roemer
Webb

Also, since the voting process is to drop the lowest candidate each round, who's to say that some of Rosenberg and Fowler's supporters -- in theory people who want reform -- wouldn't vote for Dean once their guy is out?

"We are building a political movement - not one that wields the power of lobbyists and corporate interests, but the power of millions... who seek change." -Dean

by Jim in Chicago on Fri Jan 28, 2005 at 11:00:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Catching up on some reading: (3.00 / 2)

Madrid said the ads show only that Frost is a "pragmatist" who "knows what he has to do to win."

uh, but it didn't work. he lost. and as anna has shown, it probably hurt dems in downticket races.

I am Dean For America

by pedro on Sat Jan 29, 2005 at 01:50:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

YES (none / 0)

holy shit...
Sen Clinton must have read my e-mail...and didn't want to upset me anymore...

by redjb on Fri Jan 28, 2005 at 09:05:19 PM EST

Skullduggery (2.00 / 1)

Hillary and Bill had Ickes endorse Dean precisely to kill him. The idea is this: Rosenberg is really the person they want. But, in their mind Dean was undone by Al Gore's ceremonial endorsement in January. So, the sort of "this is going to be a railroad" mentality takes over and either Rosenberg or Frost wins. Neither of them are going to open up the primary season and make it longer. Ergo, if Hillary or the Clintonista candidate has the most money to dump, the front-loading will ensure that they get the nomination.

So there you have it in a nutshell. Hillary wants to hold Dean so tight that the more moderate or centrist Democrats who don't realize that Dean or HRC are not that left gag on their own hubris and vote in someone who can't say no: you know, Terry McAuliffe.

by risenmessiah on Fri Jan 28, 2005 at 09:07:23 PM EST

Re: Skullduggery (none / 0)

Or it could put Dean over the top. I dont think they would take that gamble. I think she is backing Dean because she thinks he can get the netroots and grassroots behind her.

At least I hope so anyway...

by dayspring on Fri Jan 28, 2005 at 11:10:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

uprating (none / 0)

don't really think this is a trolling comment. uprated to a 2 for fairness sakes.

Visit us at TexasKAOS, where we're taking Texas back!

by annatopia on Sat Jan 29, 2005 at 01:33:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: uprating (none / 0)

In the words of Lumbergh: Um yeah.

My point is that Ickes will always be more loyal to Hillary than Dean. He has to consider that even if he becomes Chair, he will have to work with operatives who are more in the thrall of other people than himself. That is not a knock on Dean, merely to say that Ickes wants to continue in the organization. But Hillary would like the opportunity to be the first woman President. She knows Ickes is far more pliant than Dean.

The hope she has is that by making it appear that the insiders back Dean, there will be a revolt away from him. Most of the insiders do not actually want a guy like Dean....but then again...all the seem to know how to do is lose.

So in any event, I am not a troll...and any seemingly mean comment is only meant to be tongue-in-cheek. This one though...was supposed to sound astute not nasty. Oh well.

by risenmessiah on Sat Jan 29, 2005 at 11:30:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: uprating (none / 0)

it's all good. like i said, i just uprated it 'cause i really didn't think it as troll-worthy.

Visit us at TexasKAOS, where we're taking Texas back!

by annatopia on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 02:31:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Ickes endorsement (none / 0)

I haven't read all the comments, so someone may have already raised this, but perhaps Dean made promises to the Clintons so they would get out of his way. I hope not; one of the things I like about him is that he seems to be his own man.

by susan1 on Fri Jan 28, 2005 at 11:41:36 PM EST

Re: Ickes endorsement (none / 0)

I wouldn't be surprised if a conversation or series of conversations between Dean and the Clintons established a 'we can live with each other' consensus...

BUT, both Dean and WJC are too smart to make or solicit overt 'tit for tat' deals (which can and do blow up in politicos' faces), though I'm not sure HRC wasn't trying to get one for herself.

And besides, doesn't everyone here think that maybe, just maybe, Clinton sees in Dean the same combination of brilliant policy mind, innovative tactics, and grassroots star power that the Party's been missing since, well, himself?

(I'll make an exception for John Edwards, but these guys fought and won a bunch of times and Johnny-E hopped on the train in 1998).

I sense the same kind of bloggy overconfidence about Ho-Dean's chances that we on the campaign read and felt ourselves in New Hampshire, circa October '03. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE let's not make the 'inevitability' mistake again?

P.S. Anyone have any insights on the labor endorsements, i.e., Frost's potential trump card? I'd love some reassuring evidence there...

by CT Lex on Sat Jan 29, 2005 at 12:24:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ickes endorsement (none / 0)

I know several NY groups asked members to call Sen. Clinton's office, to express their support for Dean and ask for her support (or at least that she not interfere). Maybe it had some effect- wouldn't it be nice to think maybe she actually did listen??

by sneemteam on Sat Jan 29, 2005 at 10:03:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Bah (2.00 / 0)

Ickes is endorsing Dean so that Howard will keep him on the DNC. That way, Ickes can obstruct him for the Clintons once Dean gets the job.

by Covin on Sat Jan 29, 2005 at 02:19:08 AM EST

Radical idea (3.00 / 1)

Maybe Ickes actually likes Dean and is endorsing him for the reasons actually given. (I keep thinking of that picture of Ickes laughing at something Dean says to him when they were sitting next to each other as candidates for the DNC job before Harold dropped out.)

Do we have to parse everything to death? Anyone with half a brain can see that Dean is the best qualified for the position. Just look at his record recruiting successful governor candidates when he headed the DGA. Add to that the superb work DFA did in only 6 months and the fact that he has 600,000 "fresh horses" ready to follow his lead. And the media, whatever they think of Dean, will COVER him, allowing the Democrats to get out their message as a result.

Many of the other candidates have good things to offer, but only Dean has the complete package. There really is a stature gap between him and the rest of the field. Maybe Ickes recognizes that -- his statement certainly suggests as much.

"We are building a political movement - not one that wields the power of lobbyists and corporate interests, but the power of millions... who seek change." -Dean

by Jim in Chicago on Sat Jan 29, 2005 at 03:36:10 AM EST

Follow the Money (none / 0)

All politics revolves around money, and Dean has been effective at running a national grassroots effort at collecting money for his DNC Chair campaign.

I am hopeful that the Clintons are seeing the light of successful and galvanized fund raising from the masses (uh..grassroots); and fearful of that great sucking black hole in finances if he should loose or be out maneuvered by the beltway insiders (who do control a majority if united).

I am a reform democrat.

by NvDem on Sat Jan 29, 2005 at 12:14:54 PM EST

That is great news! (none / 0)

But I won't be able to relax until after Dean is officially seated. I've seen the Frost-type backroom wheeling and dealing in action before. Not pretty.

I am sure that Dean will bring in Fowler and Rosenburg to help rebuild the Party. Dean really IS a "Uniter, not a Divider", unlike the originator of the phrase.

The Democratic Party stands for equality for ALL, freedom with responsibility, and a civil and just society.

by TexasLefty on Sat Jan 29, 2005 at 02:26:49 PM EST

The more I hear about Frost (none / 0)

the more he seems a bit of an LBJ throwback-with the wheeling and the dealing and the occassional strong arm.

Not a bad ally to have, as long as he doesn't think you're in his way. However, not one to inspire confidence in me that there would be a substantive change from the top-down consultant heavy culture of the status quo Dems.

Of the top four candidates, he's the only one that I think would keep me away from the party.

Ah well, as they say, he may be a sumbitch, but he's our sumbitch...

Before you win, you have to fight. Come fight along with us at TexasKaos.

by boadicea on Sat Jan 29, 2005 at 06:02:37 PM EST

Martiin Frost (none / 0)

Texas Lefty wrote:
"I've seen the Frost-type backroom wheeling and dealing in action before. Not pretty."

I attended this morning's DNC event, and, in addition to the above, Frost let fly a bit of a bombshell at one point.

The question was asked as to how the Democratic party could make itself right with the faith-based community. Frost's reponse, in part, was to say that the Democratic party needs to make clear that "we believe in God". Now what is that supposed to mean? That Martin Frost's Democratic party is one where atheists and agnostics need not apply?

I really found that offensive.

Yours in reform,

Charles

by criggs on Sat Jan 29, 2005 at 07:05:10 PM EST

Icky (none / 0)

I don't see how or why Ickes' endorsement should be seen as a momentous for Dean. Let's be straight here: Dean represents a sensibility in politics that is all about fissure and division. His strength is to capture and motivate an angry assertive minority -- who ultimately and temperamentally -- like to see themselved as outsiders. Losing -- loudly -- is what Dean is good at. Winning is not Dean's thing. I wish all the enthusiasts who surrounded this guy can now refocus their efforts, their e-mails, and their passion on somebody who actually will know how to WIN national elections. And that ain'd Dean. Coming in a bad third in Iowa is as far as he got to triumph. We can't risk forgetting that. We -- democrats, progressives, believers, will be condemned to permanent minority status if we are willing to give the keys to our party's car to Dean. Even Trippi realized this, and bailed on him. Don't we want to win again? And what is Ickes thinking, other than trying to do what he always does -- preserving his "kingmaker" status by a late, and what he probably percieved as safe endorsement. If he had any guts at all, he would have made this endorsement back when he decided not to run, or as soon as Dean did. And if he was truly wise and thoughtful about how the Party can get back to winning again, he would be backing Simon Rosenberg, along with lots of the red state Democratic leaders and pols who have actually won in their campaigns with Rosenberg help. Can't we finally move on to a new set of leaders in our party? Can't Dean and Ickes go ride off into the sunset somewhere, gently, without mucking it up for the party and its future, and the next generation of Democrats?

by jennielane on Sat Jan 29, 2005 at 08:12:26 PM EST

Rosenberg's endorsements? (3.00 / 1)

Who's endorsed Rosenberg from the Red States? I haven't seen any of the DNC voting members endorsing him at all, but I haven't looked at the numbers in a day or so.

As for the anti-Dean spew, I'll just ask that you mop that up before you go. It tends to eat through the carpet.

Before you win, you have to fight. Come fight along with us at TexasKaos.

by boadicea on Sat Jan 29, 2005 at 08:43:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rosenberg's endorsements? (none / 0)

This is the latest Elected Offical and National Leader endorsement list from Rosenberg's website.. in notice the broad support from red state dems (in addition to reformist and diverse segments of the dem family)..

Members of Congress:
Rep Ben Chandler (KY), Rep. Artur Davis (AL), Rep. Loretta Sanchez (CA) and Rep. Adam Smith (WA).

Former DNC Chair:
Joe Andrew (IN)

Current State Elected Officials:
Bronx Borough President Adolfo Carrion (NY), Cincinnati Councilman John Cranley (OH), San Francisco District Atty. Kamala Harris (CA), San Francisco City Atty. Dennis Herrera (CA), State Auditor Crit Luallen (KY), State Treasurer Jack Markell (DE), State Treasurer Jonathan Miller (KY), House Minority Leader Chris Redfern (OH), State Rep. Peter Sullivan (NH) and State Labor Commissioner Michael Thurmond (GA).

Former Elected Officials:
Gov. Tony Knowles (AK), Gov. Don Siegelman (AL) and State Attorney General Jeffrey Modisett (IN).

Former Administration Officials:
Small Business Administration Administrator Aida Alvarez (CA), White House Director for Intergovernmental Affairs Mickey Ibarra (DC), Treasury Dept. Deputy Chief of Staff Karen Kornbluh (DC), White House Press Secretary Mike McCurry (DC), Ambassador Edward Romero (NM), Commerce Dept. Undersecretary Rob Shapiro (DC), Commerce Dept. Chief of Staff Rob Stein (DC), Chairwoman US International Trade Commission Paula Stern (DC) and Federal Trade Commissioner Christine Varney (DC).

Influential Democrats:
Hispanic Strategist Sergio Bendixen (FL), Chris Heinz (PA), and Fmr. Howard Dean Campaign Mgr. Joe Trippi (DC).

by jennielane on Sat Jan 29, 2005 at 11:25:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rosenberg's endorsements? (none / 0)

Thanks, I think I recall some of the names on that list.

How many of them are voting DNC members?

Before you win, you have to fight. Come fight along with us at TexasKaos.

by boadicea on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 12:17:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Icky (3.00 / 1)

With respect to your opinions about Howard Dean, we just disagree. That you would label the man whose stump speech, throughout the campaign, included the repeated phrase "I'm tired of being divided" as one whose sensibility is about fissure and division is just amazing.

We do not see or hear the same person it is doubtful that we could ever be reconciled on this.

But there are a couple of points on which you are just plain wrong.

The DNC chair does not hold the keys to the Democratic Party's car. The DNC chair is a facilitator not a dictator, a servant not a master.

None of the other contenders for DNC chair have won any national elections, so this should not eliminate anyone from consideration.

Ickes is not now and never has been a kingmaker in any sense of the term.

Howard Dean is a new leader.

by James Earl on Sat Jan 29, 2005 at 09:47:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Icky (none / 0)

Look, the effect -- if not the intention -- of his political effort in the past year has been to deepen the divide in the democratic community. I'll agree with you that this was not have been his goal or his vision, but it certainly has been its consequence.

The point is that that far from finding the path or an intellectual or programmatic coherence or poetic or narrative or "frame" or however you want to call it that would unite the broadest elements of the party (and elements of the other parties, too) to a democratic capital D sensibility, in the sense that Clinton was able to do, Dean's efforts sadly have had a polarizing effect. You can't deny that fact, no matter how much you believe in or want to love the guy, his passion, his intention.

We need to be clear eyed about this. Otherwise, we are doomed to ever more dangerous conservative successes. Sorry to have to shine the cruel harsh light of the truth on all of the pro-Dean reverie. But let's all wake up to reality, before it is too late.

by jennielane on Sat Jan 29, 2005 at 11:35:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Reality (none / 0)

If it's reality you want, you should look at the reality that Dr. Dean has brought new faces into the body of the party and brought some older ones back. His presidential candidacy breathed life into a moribund field of not-quite-contenders and made the Party's rhetoric sound, for the first time in a long time, DEMOCRATIC.

I assure you, as someone who left the Democrats about 1996-1998 (can't remember when I actually changed my voter registration) that Dr. Dean is essential to my decision to come back toward the Party.

He's not the only considaration, and I'm not a Dean-or-dieniac, but pissing on his contributions to shake up the Somnolent party is not a cold reality based shower.

It's a cold sweat puddling around the consultocracy's feet.

Before you win, you have to fight. Come fight along with us at TexasKaos.

by boadicea on Sun Jan 30, 2005 at 01:02:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Utterly unimaginative (none / 0)

Myopia continues in some corners I see.

by ZennedJim on Sat Jan 29, 2005 at 11:12:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ickes backs Dean for DNC Chair (none / 0)

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by bgreen68 on Tue Dec 25, 2007 at 04:50:03 AM EST

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