Gallup's Defense Falls Flat

Much to my surprise, and with tremendous thanks to MoveOn.org, the critiques Steve Soto, Ruy Teixeira and I have long been making about the Gallup poll are starting to receive some coverage. It even prompted Frank Newport, Editor in Chief of Gallup, to make a public defense of the poll on CNN:

FRANK NEWPORT, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, GALLUP: Well, it's not at all unusual to find people criticizing polls or other information that they don't like, they disagree with the results of. Gallup's had that from both sides through the years when we show results that look like they're favoring one side or the other.

But certainly, this ad seems to have more misstatements of fact and misunderstanding than most. And it's good for us to be able to respond to it.

OK. Let's look at these misstatements of fact. They include:
They seemingly come up with some data, we're not sure from where, saying, oh, the average seems to suggest right now that Bush has just a three-point lead over Kerry. That doesn't seem to be the case.

Most observers now say it's a six to eight-point lead. That's what recent polls are showing.

You would think that someone who runs a polling organization would have bothered to do an actual poll of polling firms before making this statement. Had he done so, this is what he would have found:
The numbers in the ad, which are quite eye-opening, are rock-solid. The ad says Gallup's average LV lead for Bush this month has been 10 points, while the average of all other LV polls has been 4 (they're clearly referring to 3-way LV results--which are by far the most numerous LV results--based on other data in the ad). That's correct. Even taking into account data released since 9/26 (the end-date for the ad's analysis), Gallup this month has averaged a 10 point lead for Bush among LVs in 3-way trial heats, while the other 27 3-way LV trial heats taken this month have averaged a 4 point Bush lead.

Similarly, the ad says polls released since 9/12 (that is, two weeks before the end-date of the ad's analysis), excluding Gallup, have averaged a 3 point lead for Bush in 3-way LV trial heats. Correct again, even adding in polls released since 9/26. In the 17 3-way trial heats released since 9/12 by polling organizations whose names are not "Gallup", Bush is averaging just a 3 point lead.

A polling firm's credibility is not aided if, when a representative appears on national TV to defend the accuracy of the polls, that representative makes an inaccurate, unresearched guesstimation about what other recent polling firms are showing. For crying out loud, Newport can't even accurately weight a sample with 27 responses, or at least doesn't even care to try.

In a USA Today article by Mark Memmont on the subject, Gallup offers a defense for why it does not weight by Party ID, the issue at the center of this now month-long debate over polling methodology:

The polling firm does not adjust its "pool" of voters to add or subtract Republicans or Democrats in an effort to mirror those parties' estimated make-ups.

Among the reasons Gallup doesn't try to do that:

  • It believes there are no reliable data on which to estimate exactly how many Republicans or Democrats there are in the country. Some states, for example, don't require voters to register by party affiliation. Basing an adjustment on previous year's exit polls, "means you're 'weighting' one poll based on the results of another poll, which has its own built-in sampling error," Newport said.

  • It believes party affiliation "is an attitude, not a demographic trait" and that voters can change their minds about which party they identify with more than once during an election year, Newport said. That would explain, he said, why the number of people who identified themselves as Republicans went down during this year's Democratic primaries -- when Kerry and his competitors were in the news.
The first reason is bizarre. Of course you can't "estimate exactly," that is why it is called an estimation. But if Gallup has a problem with inexact estimations, then why do they estimate voter turnout in their likely voter model, which also cannot be known for certain?
Gallup asks each [RV] respondent seven LV screening questions, and gives each person an LV score of 0 to 7. [Assuming a turnout of 55 percent], the top 55% are classified as likely voters.
Gallup has no problem assuming a turnout of 55% of registered voters, which is absurdly low. According to Dave Leip, the lowest turnout ever among registered voters was 66.4% in 1996. So, Gallup has no problem ignoring history and estimating, at a crucial point in their methodology, mid-term level turnout in a Presidential year, but they refuse to estimate Party ID? This is, I suppose, because Party ID swings so wildly over time:

Pew

Harris:

Year	Rep	Dem	Gap
2003	 28	 33	 5   
2002	 31	 34	 3
2001	 29	 36	 5
2000	 29	 37	 8
1999	 29	 36	 7
1998	 28	 37	 9
1997	 29	 37	 8
1996	 30	 38	 8
1995	 31	 36	 5
1994	 32	 37	 5
1993	 29	 38	 9
1992	 30	 36	 6
1991	 32	 37	 5
1990	 33	 38	 5
The Pew poll is of 19,000 voters a year, while the Harris polls is of 6,000 voters a year. Gallup claims they can't make a good estimation from these numbers, and that this isn't a stable demographic trait? Quite frankly, after seeing these numbers, anyone could offer an estimation of next year's Party ID numbers that would be accurate within two points. While it is impossible to know exactly what Party ID looks like, it is quite easy to come pretty darn close.

That last point is why I have cast my lot with the firms who weight by Party ID, and why I can sort of understand if some other polling firms do not. Weighting results based on estimated Party ID is not properly scientific, and so I can see why some hardliners would reject it (of course it is also not properly scientific to claim that a poll with a margin or error of plus or minus four points shows a candidate up by eight). However, since it is so easy to come so close to nailing Party ID, and since having a proper model of Party ID turnout in a poll virtually guarantees that poll will be a very close reflection of the election results, why wouldn't a public pollster want to weight by Party ID? If nothing else it will save embarrassment and/or raise political junkie street cred. The two firms which weighted by Party ID in both 2000 and 1996, Harris and Zogby, were the most accurate in both elections.

At least the Party ID issue in polling has received some press now, and there is somewhat more public recognition that thee are two opposing camps when it comes to this issue. Mark up another small victory for the lefty political Blogosphere.


Display:


Contact Them (1.00 / 1)

I contacted CNN via their website, and told them I am altering all the televisions in my house and my restaurant until they address this problem.
by Bodot on Wed Sep 29, 2004 at 03:19:37 AM EST

This is just one small piece of the stratagy (none / 0)

CNN and the rest of the media, day by day are promoting these polls as if they are the gospel truth.

The story line is that Kerry now is so far behind Bush it is doubtful that he can catch up, unless he does something heroic in the debates.

In fact the pundets are saying Bush can show up and droll during the debates and still easily win the election. This is exactly how they managed the  low expectations for the Bush 2000 debate performance.

But as the media says daya after day, Kerry has fallen behind and can't catch up.

That is how they are using these polls, which is an even more important fact than precisely how they fundged the polling data THIS time.

They, CNN others, continue to use national polls which in no way can be an accurate analog for a 50 state electorial election process. But Paula Zahn yesterday said, the national polls show Bush well ahead, 8%. Then she asks Candy Crowley how can the Kerry campaign possibly explain away these weak numbers?

Next week it will be, "Well ok Kerry did well in the debates, but he did not close the deal. The polling data ocntinues to show that Bush is ahead and it seems the debates just wont be enough for Kerry to catch up."

by leschwartz on Wed Sep 29, 2004 at 03:51:26 AM EST

CNN didn't order Gallup to blow smoke (none / 0)


But maybe they can put some pressure on Gallup--if CNN felt like it.

Gallup's "defense" of its methods puts the once-credible organization solidly in the Hack category.

May they be far off on election day and suffer as a result.

by Ottnott on Wed Sep 29, 2004 at 02:43:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Don't sweat the polls (none / 0)

If they're wrong, they are wrong and will be proven wrong on November 2.  There is absolutely no evidence that anyone's voting is influenced by the polls, and there is evidence to indicate that it is not.

If they are right, we'll find that out November 2, too.

by PonyFan on Wed Sep 29, 2004 at 03:55:20 AM EST

Re: Don't sweat the polls (none / 0)

No, that is not right.

The evidence shows negative campaigning works to knock down the opponents numbere a few points and promoting phony polling data to discourage, demoralize and repress the opposition vote also works to take down the opponents vote a few points.

It does not matter if the negative campain is honest or valid and it does not matter if the polls promoted day after day are accrate, both will have their effect and will be believed by some.

A few points hear and a few points there and you've won a close election you might not otherwise have won on your merits.

by leschwartz on Wed Sep 29, 2004 at 04:17:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Don't sweat the polls (none / 0)

I disagree

I didn't say anything about negative campaigning, so I'm not sure why you brought that up.

I have never seen the slightest bit of evidence that polling affects how voting goes.  I have seen evidence that it does not.  Just look at all the upset victories there have been in the world this year.  Candidates who have been way behind in the polls surge.  Candidates who have been in front falter and are defeated.  Polls don't win or lose an election.

by PonyFan on Wed Sep 29, 2004 at 07:59:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Don't sweat the polls (none / 0)

I would have to disagree, at least from my own experience.  I have several friends, very strong Kerry supporters (they HATE Bush) that have been VERY discourged after hearing the polls, especially Gallup (and CNN/USATODAY).  One felt giving up, since Bush had such  a large lead and had read in one newspaper that Bush was on verge of landside.

After showing them other polls, explaining how party ID might impact and fact that election is still at worse 4-5 points difference and can be even closer (ARG had it a 1% for Bush, they polled 30,600 people, 600 per state, that is almost the size of the national polls http://americanresearchgroup.com) the reaction from all was anger at the fact that they had been almost duped, that they felt like throwing the towel in when in reality the race is very close.

So polls will discourge some people, enough in a very close election to change results

by ramdan on Wed Sep 29, 2004 at 09:26:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Don't sweat the polls (none / 0)

Utterly not true. In the fall of '88 ABC News released a very large, 50-state poll that showed while Bush and Dukakis were close nationally, Bush had a lock on the Electoral College based on the distribution of his support (basically, the solid South). ABC and the other networks then took off with the story that a Dukakis win was mathematically impossible.

Honestly, it may well have been. But the fact is that the ensuing media hounding of the Dukakis campaign contributed in large part to Dukakis' slide in the national polls and the depressed Dem turnout on election day that gave Bush coattails in the House. It wasn't necessarily the poll that convinced anyone, but the resulting "aura of inevitability" that surrounded Bush from that point out was generated using the ABC poll as a starting point.

I think what we're seeing here is an attempt to use the Gallup poll in the same way. The EC is way too close to definitively say there's a lock, and there's vastly more outlets of information now, but CNN at least is attempting to push this perspective as the story. Not "Kerry trails in some polls," but "Kerry can't win." If you're a soft support voter and your favorite news channel keeps saying that Kerry can't win, you'll stay home. "Why bother? It's already over, Kerry can't win."

by corax on Wed Sep 29, 2004 at 05:12:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Polls affect more things than voting (none / 0)

They affect:
  1. Contributions.  Who wants to contribute to somebody that's going to lose anyway?
  2. Campaign staff size and fervor.  Who wants to join a campaign that is already losing where people think it's already lost?
  3. The news spin.  This is probably the biggie.  The news becomes, "John Kerry's poll numbers are down because ... [fill in the blank]."  Everything good that happens to Kerry is interpreted as irrelevant in light of its failure to improve Kerry's numbers significantly.  Anything bad that Bush does is ignored on the basis that Bush's popularity shows that the people don't care.

by Dumbo on Wed Sep 29, 2004 at 07:11:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

This gives me hope! (none / 0)

Well, this and the NYT article that stated Democratic voter registration is up by 250% in Ohio compared to the Republicans 22%.  We need this in OH-3.  
by esoterica on Wed Sep 29, 2004 at 09:10:48 AM EST

gallup legerdemain (none / 0)

Can somebody -- Jerome or anyone else -- steer me to a complete set of Gallup (or others) Bush-Kerry polls that include the breakdown of respondents by party?  I think I've found a way to ballpark what the numbers should be and I want to develop the whole set.

pollkatz@stuarteugenethiel.com

by drlimerick on Wed Sep 29, 2004 at 10:04:52 AM EST

Sorry Doc, I can't (none / 0)

But I can publically express my opinion that you are a huge, fricking hero in all this and do the blog-whoring you are too modest to do.

Folks if you have not bookmarked the single most powerful tool to counter the Doom and Gloomers then link to Pollkatz's Poll of Polls or cut right to the chart that let me keep my sanity through the 2003 "Popular War-time President" nonsense Bush Approval

(But Doc, your page still doesn't format right in Safari: overlapping text, bad line breaks. But it works and I am still your biggest fan.)

by Bruce Webb on Thu Sep 30, 2004 at 10:04:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Pew Poll (none / 0)

The Pew Poll came back negative for us.  They have Bush up 8% vs 3% a few weeks ago.  I was under the impression that PEW is pretty reliable (I could be wrong) so this worries me a little.  I am not sure what caused the sudden 5% spike.  Any ideas?

Here is the Yahoo article

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=584&ncid=584&e=6&u=/nm/20040928/pl_n m/campaign_poll_pew_dc

by Michael on Wed Sep 29, 2004 at 10:13:43 AM EST

Poll is vacillating wildly. (none / 0)

We weren't down 3 a few weeks ago. It was last week that we were down 3.  Nothing happened in a week for us to suddenly be down 8.  And also note that a few weeks ago they took 2 polls.  In one Bush was up big time, and the other it was very close.  So this poll's output is very much dependent on their sample, which is wildly inconsistent.
by Teaser on Wed Sep 29, 2004 at 10:45:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pew Poll (none / 0)

The CBS thing probably.  Now that CBS has flatly admitted the documents can't be authenticated, many people's perceptions are that the Dems were involved.

I honestly do not think Kerry had anything to do with it, but I wouldn't put anything past McCauliff or Lockhart.  In any event, I believe that might have caused the bounce.

Still Zogby is a bit more reliable.  If you want an accurate gauge, you really need to pick a pollster and stick to them.  My exprience is that NORMALLY, each poll will shift about the right number of points as the others.  They might not start off the same, but they shift the same.

In other words...if Gallup has Bush up by 13, and Zogby has Bush up by 6...then next week it might be 8 and 3.  They shift the same.

The overall numbers should give you an indicator of where they stand, but don't pay too much attention to each individual pollster.

by JayRay on Wed Sep 29, 2004 at 01:00:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pew Poll (none / 0)

Well, given the typical MoE, he could have a lead of between four and five points in each case; one poll erred slightly in one direction, the other erred badly (but within the 95% margin) in the other direction.  It does happen, and that's where the aggregate of other polls (excluding Gallup's absurdly-weighted B.S.) suggests the race stands.
Later,
Alex
Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama for President! Beat McCain!
by Alex on Wed Sep 29, 2004 at 02:18:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

OT- Voted for before voting against explained (none / 0)

Most of us knew this anyway because we are smart enough to read into the sound bite.  However, since most people are too lazy to do this, Kerry has finally articulated a response.  We all know that he is going to get asked this at the debate, so I am assuming this is his test run with the answer.  I think it is good, however, I am a pretty biased opinion here.  What do the rest of you think.  

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=694&ncid=696&e=8&u=/ap/20040929/ap_o n_el_pr/kerry

by Michael on Wed Sep 29, 2004 at 10:24:15 AM EST

Re: OT- Voted for before voting against explained (none / 0)

It's about time he cleared that up.  I read an explanation of the vote at the time, but it didn't come from Kerry or his campaign; why they let it stand so long, I cannot comprehend.  Anyway, this should be clear enough for John Q. Public to understand, if he uses it in the debate.
Later,
Alex
Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama for President! Beat McCain!
by Alex on Wed Sep 29, 2004 at 02:25:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Contact the media (none / 0)

I've been sending Letters to the Editor of any newspaper or outlet using the Gallup poll.  ("Why would you publish poll results where just 33% of the people surveyed were Democrats?  No wonder it showed Bush with an 8% lead!  Their polling method creates results that are wildly different from other polls
showing the race tied....")

Maybe we can embarrass the media into abandoning Gallup and their screwy methodology....

by density on Wed Sep 29, 2004 at 10:25:02 AM EST

Re: This one will be won in the turnout battle (none / 0)

From what I'm hearing about the wildly successful GOTV effort, this election is going to be won in the turnout battle. Democrat registrations are exceeding Republican registrations by HUGE margins, especially in the battleground states. If Dems can get these people to the polls, the Republicans will be wiped out like the Dems were in 1994.

My real point here is that these national polls don't matter except for the psychological effects on activists. The thing that matters is getting the vote out in the close states and countering the inevitable voter suppression efforts from Chimpy and Rove. If Dems blow this one after registering so many voters, they don't deserve to run ANYTHING. If even half the newly registered turn out, the Republicans are toast.

In addition, there is an excellent chance here to take back the Senate by winning in OK, FL, AK, NC, and keeping Daschle's seat in SD. At least one Rep senator can be removed by appointing them to the cabinet (Sec. of Def. Warner?), giving Dems control.

While keeping the pollsters honest is important, there are bigger factors at work here. Dems should be vigorously exposing and challenging Rove's voter suppression efforts. Someone should file suit against Blackwell in Ohio, who is attempting to disqualify hundreds of thousands of new registrations based on the weight of the paper the application is printed on. This guy is going to single-handedly steal the state of Ohio. There is also a lot of funny business going on in Florida that nobody is screaming about and I suspect the Rove goons are executing a massive absentee-voter fraud that hasn't hit any tripwires so far. Where is the DNC in all this and why aren't they doing something? Look at what Delay did in Texas - do Dems really believe this is an abberation?

Wake up, Dems! Quit agonizing over the Tarot cards and Get Out The Vote. Stop reading the tea leaves and STOP THE VOTER SUPPRESSION!

by skrymir on Wed Sep 29, 2004 at 11:54:40 AM EST

Re: This one will be won in the turnout battle (none / 0)

In addition, there is an excellent chance here to take back the Senate by winning in OK, FL, AK, NC, and keeping Daschle's seat in SD. At least one Rep senator can be removed by appointing them to the cabinet (Sec. of Def. Warner?), giving Dems control.

You forgot CO; last I checked, Salazar was kicking Coors's butt.  Add that to the ones you mentioned (all of which have our candidates in the lead), and we'd have a majority even before appointing a GOPer cabinet secretary from a state with a Dem governor.  (John Warner would be a good choice, I suspect.)  There's also South Carolina; Tenenbaum is behind, but not by much, and she started the general election with twenty times Jim "National Sales Tax" DeMint's war chest.  Even Georgia isn't hopeless, if Majette can get high enough turnout by black voters.
Later,
Alex

Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama for President! Beat McCain!
by Alex on Wed Sep 29, 2004 at 02:32:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This one will be won in the turnout battle (none / 0)

Alex,

Your drinkin the good kool-aid with the Georgia race.  That would be a miracle of miracle and could signal a Kerry route...However, I agree with all of the rest of your assessments.  We already know that even if Obama killed someone and then wiped his ass with the flag, he is still going to beat Keyes and if the rest fall into place like i think they will, we will be in great shape.

by Michael on Wed Sep 29, 2004 at 03:07:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Possibly.... (none / 0)

If I am, the DSCC is drinking it right along with me; they seem to think that Georgia is worth expending resources on, and they're usually pretty selective about where they expend their resources.  The last poll showed Isakson leading Majette 46-41 -- a genuine lead, but hardly a slam-dunk.  You're right that it would probably take a pretty strong showing by Kerry for Majette to win, but that can still happen, if he does a good job in the debates.  We'll see.

I've got twenty-five dollars at Tradesports bet against each of the three favored Repug senatorial candidates where an upset looks possible: DeMint, Isakson, and Bunning (just in case the Alzheimer's rumor is true and he has to drop out).  It's not much of a loss if I lose, and the payoff if I win is huge: ten-to-one for DeMint, and twenty-to-one for Isakson and Bunning.
Later,
Alex

Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama for President! Beat McCain!
by Alex on Wed Sep 29, 2004 at 05:26:16 PM EST

A Democratic Pollsters's Response (none / 0)

It's tough to cut through the spin at this stage of the election cycle.  But, in the spirit of at least trying, check out Mark Blumenthal's -- a respected democratic pollster -- analysis of Gallup and MoveOn.org on his very new (and excellent, by the way) blog.

I doubt MyDD will officially respond, given the strong tone of spin on this blog, but check it out, anyway:
http://mysterypollster.typepad.com/main/2004/09/moveon_vs_gallu.html

Rory

by Rory on Wed Sep 29, 2004 at 07:35:15 PM EST

Attacking the poll was correct (none / 0)

If people think it's impossible for Kerry to win, and don't vote because of that thought, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.  The only way to get them to vote is to tell them the polls are wrong.  So this most certainly was a good use of Moveon's money, IMHO.

by Geotpf on Thu Sep 30, 2004 at 11:08:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]


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