A Planted Forgery?

I don't know.  But Stirling Newberry thinks the right-wing planted the documents CBS relied on:

http://www.bopnews.com/archives/001500.html

UPDATE: The right is going to try to make it seem like Kerry or 'the left' planted the documents on CBS. If it turns out CBS got snookered by someone not associated with Democrats, then they will still pin it on 'the left' in the form of the liberal media.

Koppel and Lehane agreed that the campaign almost certainly was not responsible for the forgery because the consequences of being caught are too high. (Lehane even floated the idea that the Bush campaign might have been responsible). Under this analysis, the Nixon campaign couldn't have been behind the Watergate break-in either -- it must have been the work of Democrats or the CIA.
Be very careful with this.



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Re: A Planted Forgery? (none / 0)

Bush's Brain, right up Rove's alley. The original AP story attributed the leak to the WH.
by Jerome Armstrong on Fri Sep 10, 2004 at 10:04:25 AM EST

These Documents Are Just Icing--Remember The Cake! (none / 0)

It would make a lot of sense for these documents to be forged, since they aren't really needed to prove Bush's failure to serve, violation of his, failure to obey a direct order, and repeated pattern of lying and coverup.  They are icing on the cake, not the cake itself.  And since the cake itself can't be denied, what better way to fight back than by discrediting the icing?

We should remain on all that we DO know, which is utterly damning.

by Paul Rosenberg on Fri Sep 10, 2004 at 10:58:03 AM EST

But what about this (5.00 / 1)

Bush's military records must be fake, too! Look, a superscript "th"!

http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/doc10.gif

2nd line, after "Pilot Trainee"

by clawed on Fri Sep 10, 2004 at 12:04:19 PM EST

Good Catch! (5.00 / 1)

And this was back in 1968!

This is a very illustrative document, IMHO.  Most of the time the "th" in 111th is not superscripted, but it was superscripted in the earliest entry. This reinforces what those of us around at the time remember--though I had little first-hand experience--that there was significant variety in the sophistication of equipment and knowledge of electric typewriters.

by Paul Rosenberg on Sat Sep 11, 2004 at 11:06:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Planted Forgery? (5.00 / 3)

why are we still talking about this?

by the time i read about the "forged" documents, that myth had already been pretty mmuch debunked.  i refer you to these threads:
one
two
three

Visit us at TexasKAOS, where we're taking Texas back!
by annatopia on Fri Sep 10, 2004 at 12:12:55 PM EST

Re: A Planted Forgery? (none / 0)

Thanks, annatopia.  Lest we forget, the Cretans had batteries, as did the Romans, but they used them for anodising.  Computers existed before 1990.  The term "bug" to describe a computer programming problem comes from WWII. Babbage designed a calculator before they were used for accounting by Enron.

Etc. etc.  Technology isn't nearly so new as we like to believe.   Cheap technology is.  

by Carol on Fri Sep 10, 2004 at 03:37:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

technology (none / 0)

egyptians also used a crude form of batteries (see the history channel is good for something at times).  and algebra is nearly as old as civilisation itself, and as the science of math pretty much leads to technological advances... well, you get my drift.

i agree - most people assume that the stone ages existed up until the age of the PC and the internet.  =)

Visit us at TexasKAOS, where we're taking Texas back!
by annatopia on Sat Sep 11, 2004 at 05:27:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Planted Forgery? (none / 0)

The other thought that occurs to me is if I was going to forge these documents why would I not bother to do at least the following:
  1. Type said documents on a bog-standard IBM Selectric with a Courier ball?
  2. Attempt to duplicate as much as possible the official offset print letterhead of the unit this was purporting to be from? Doing a B&W version wouldn't be too hard as there are other examples of it readily availible on the internet. A color version for the originals would be more difficult but not that much so.
  3. For that matter why wasn't CBS provided with the supposed original (or original carbon copies) documents? Making forgeries that will fool anything but the most sophisticated analisys isn't that difficult if you know what you are doing.
The only 2 conclusions I am left with are:
  1. These are indeed the real-McCoy and the freepers are full of it. (big supprise there)
  2. Rove is playing a game similar to when he bugged his own office.

by ces on Sat Sep 11, 2004 at 08:19:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

We Are Sunk (none / 0)

If it's a forgery... I really think this is a HUGE setback...

Invest in nature
by NCDem on Fri Sep 10, 2004 at 01:28:04 PM EST

can we all say RED HERRING? (none / 0)

go read the three links i posted earlier in this thread.  they are being tracked up to the minute.

and last night, cbs stood by it's story.  they are putting their entire network news organisation's credibility on the line for this.

what we now know, in part thanks to those documents and in part thanks to ben barnes:

  1.  bush crime family pulled strings to get georgie into the guard, and some poor kid went and died in his place.
  2.  he disobeyed a direct order to get a physical.  
  3.  he disobeyed a direct order to report for a guard unit in massachusetts.
  4.  he was denied the ability to transfer to a unit in alabama, and went anyway, where he didn't bother to show up except to get a dental appointment.  
  5.  the points he supposedly made up were done in a timeframe which was against ANG policy, so he should not have been credited for them.
  6.  when bush blew off his duties in massachusetts, he should have immediately been put into the draft lottery.  
  7.  when denver guard HQ found out the scam, they tried to bust him.
these things of course lead to other questions, but what we know - and what is confirmed by witnesses and the official military record - is that bush didn't honor his pledge to defend out country.  why in the hell would we expect him to honor that pledge now?  
Visit us at TexasKAOS, where we're taking Texas back!
by annatopia on Sat Sep 11, 2004 at 05:22:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Sunk? (5.00 / 3)

The Right Wingnuts have had their lies proven false over and over again, and it never stops them from being positive about achieving their goals.

Stop sulking.

by clawed on Fri Sep 10, 2004 at 02:30:44 PM EST

forgeries (none / 0)

  1.  If the originals are around, it should be easy to prove whether they are typewritten or not, because of the impact indentations on the paper.  This won't prove they aren't forged, but it will prove their bona fides as typewritten documents.  
  2.  If they aren't around, it should be possible to look at the characteristics of the letters to see if they are composed of dots (inkjet/laserjet) or not.  
  3.  It does seem odd that this "forgery" stuff comes out so conveniently when other documents released at the same time are obviously not forgeries.  Let's try a little distraction, shall we?  Cast doubt on all the records, so Bush can keep lying about his service, shall we?  Is CBS complicit in this?  Is fawning and servile Dan party to this?
  4.  How come this same press that took so long to check the validity of the SBVFT claims is all over the "forgery" claim?  Did we get a little boost from the BC04 folks, SCLM?
Am I wearing a tinfoil hat?
by Carol on Fri Sep 10, 2004 at 03:32:07 PM EST

robert reich (none / 0)

said the same thing on FAUX news last night (i never watch it shudder just happened to be flipping channels and landed on reich on FAUX).  he called hannity to the mat and pointed out the swifty analogy you just mentioned.

no tinfoil hat dear.  kerry's getting gored.

Visit us at TexasKAOS, where we're taking Texas back!
by annatopia on Sat Sep 11, 2004 at 05:23:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Forged, I think (none / 0)

... and planted by the Republicans.

-- The speed at which the right-wing responded

-- Rove's history (with some people thinking he bugged his own office in a Texas governor's race to cast suspicion on the opposition)

-- The sloppiness of the forgery -- wouldn't anyone in their right mind use a 1960s-era typewriter?

-- A classic misdirection technique of "admitting" some small truth while crafting an offense, apparently by the opposition, that makes the larger picture seem more horrendous than the original transgression.

This whole package is too neat, clean and fast. They package something everyone knows and no one cares about too much, cover it in shit so it stinks, and put it in wrapping paper with everything but a DNC return address.

by David de la Fuente on Fri Sep 10, 2004 at 09:09:18 PM EST

Re: Forged, I think (5.00 / 1)

Er, just because a bunch of guys who've never used a real typewriter in their lives think we were using hammer & chisel back in the day doesn't make it so.  Really, we did have all that stuff way back when, and for a boatload less than $20K, too.  Aside from automatic right-justification, even my used Selectric II was capable of most of these things that supposedly couldn't be done back then - and I got that typer at a government auction in about '69 or '70.
by Avedon on Fri Sep 10, 2004 at 11:34:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Forged, I think (none / 0)

As one who couldn't care less, I pretty much just read it objectively, and so far, I'd lean to their being real, and regardless, it isn't going to be settled.

Pat Caddell is so full of shit for thinking this could sink Kerry. What an idiot.

by Jerome Armstrong on Sat Sep 11, 2004 at 10:37:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Pat Caddell Is An Idiot of the First Order (5.00 / 1)

Throughout 1998, Pat Caddell was an almost-constant guest on Mark Cooper's local radio show on KPFK--a Pacifica Station.  For those of you who don't know, Pacifica is the pacifist-founded network which invented public, non-profit radio as we know it.  It has a long, proud, activist left-wing tradition--opposing McCarthy and supporting civil rights back in the 50s, opposing the Vietnam War in the 60s, etc.

So what did Cooper and Caddell spend 1998 doing? Bashing Clinton and all who supported him in opposition to the Rethugs' impeachment plot.  They did not focus day after day on the material presented by Gene Lyons and others about the rightwing plotting against Clinton. Instead, they took the Joe Leiberman position--Clinton is morally bankrupt, and the left cannot defend him, or else we lose all moral authority.

Pat Caddell is worse than a Republican.  They are brainwashed, and you can see them coming. I'd call him a snake, but that would be unfair to snakes.

by Paul Rosenberg on Sat Sep 11, 2004 at 11:15:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

A Planted Forgery? (none / 0)

IBM introduced propotional spacing in the Executive typewriter in 1941!!!! I used one from 1976 to 1982.

http://www-1.ibm.com/ibm/history/history/year_1941.html

1941: IBM announces the Electromatic Model 04 electric typewriter, featuring the revolutionary concept of  proportional spacing. By assigning varied rather than uniform spacing to different sized characters, the Type 4 recreated the appearance of a printed page, an effect that was further enhanced by a typewriter ribbon innovation that produced clearer, sharper words on the page. The proportional spacing feature became a staple of the IBM Executive series typewriters.

by dscotth on Wed Sep 15, 2004 at 03:12:43 PM EST

Re: A Planted Forgery? (none / 0)

I also used an IBM Executive in college - in the late '60s.  In addition to kerning (proportional spacing) it supported superscripts and used Times New Roman typeface (the most widely used in the world since the London Times switched to it in 1932).

It is fully capable of creating those documents.

The most interesting twist was the interview on 60 Minutes II last night with Killian's secretary of 20 years.  She was the one who typed up all of Killian's memos.

She testified to the following:

  1. Bush was a gentleman, but was well known and somewhat resented for thinking the rules didn't apply to him.
  2. Bush disobeyed a direct order from Killian to take the physical he had skipped.
  3. The documents Rather had were NOT documents that she had typed.
  4. However, the contents were virtually identical to memos she DID type up.
She said that Killian was furious at Bush for disobeying orders and at General Stoudt for intervening to protect Bush.

These docs are an obvious hoax.  However, the question remains: did someone on the left forge them (very crudely) to damage Bush?  Or did someone on the right forge them (intentionally crudely) to discredit the real memos and all of the other, legitmate and documented evidence in Bush's military records.

Check out Bush's ARPC records that have been released from the White House.  Bush was labeled a "non-locatee" (deserter who has been AWOL for over 3 months), moved from the TexANG to the ARPC, and put on Inactive Status (on September 15, 1973).  Bush's own Retirement Credit Summary for 1973-74 (AF Form 526) lists him as being assigned Inactive Status on 730915 - in black and white.

Naval Regulations and US Statutory Law state that a commissioned officer who still has an uncompleted MSO (Military Service Obligation) can not be taken off of active service and can not be put on Inactive Status unless he is court-martialed or declared a deserter.

The docs ain't forgeries, guys. They are all on the web and can be gotten from the ARPC (Air Reserve Processing Center) in Denver, Colorado. There are dozens of confirmatory docs available for anyone who understands the lingo and is patient enough to look through the blizzard of docs (many duplicates or illegible, but not all) that the White House has released.  Et tu...

Check out his OETR from TexANG for 1 May 72 through 30 Apr 73, stating that he has been absent from Texas for a year.  Check out the APRC "Note of Correction" which denied Bush credit for any training in Alabama, because he had not been officially approved for transfer and because his non-flying training (he had been grounded when he missed the physical) was not acceptable because his AFSC (specialty classification) was "Pilot - Fighter Intercepter."

There is also no DD44 certifying "satisfactory participation" filed for that year.  Absense of "satisfactory participation" is automatic grounds for Inactive Status.  Missing just 10% of a year's obligations, let alone the entire year, is enough to get you kicked off active duty (as he was).

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

by bushwacker on Thu Sep 16, 2004 at 05:30:00 PM EST


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