MyDD :: Why are the Greens leading charge "for the Dems"?;

Why are the Greens leading charge "for the Dems"?;

by JamBoi, Sun Dec 12, 2004 at 01:38:21 PM EST

A DUer asks:

Q Posted by Chasing Dreams:"Just curious, what is driving the Greens' leadership on the fraud front?"

All of you are doing a great job, a job that should be led by Kerry, Edwards, and the Democratic Party. You are risking your lives and careers for someone you didn't vote for. I have a pretty good idea why, but I'd like the DU community to hear it from you. Thanks!

My A: Can't speak for all, but for me I have this crazy idea that I live in a Jeffersonian constitutional democracy and I believe in the rule of law. I have to be frank and say I've been shaken deeply from my radical moderatism by my new-found discovery of just how deeply corrupted the system is and that maybe America is dominated by NeoCon craziness in a shocking way that is contravening the constitution in a broad and brazen way. I have always been willing to listen to the conspiracy theorists and thought that here are there around the edges they were probably right. But really I didn't believe that in the main we had wholesale neoconservatism/oligopolism/cryptofascism/corporatism/"theocratism"/fanatacism that was running the show corruptly in the background. This election fraud is so broad and brazen IMO that I've been bolted upright from my previous trusting slumber. I believe what we are seeing here is a constitutional crisis of epic proportions. (Note that I would react the same way if the crisis were coming from the left and in that case I'd be participating similarly over on the conservative web sites. Its the pure anti-constitutional power grab that has me up in arms). Zbignew Brezinski just called these people "fanatics" on Wolf Blitzer's Late Edition. Apt term.

The other thing that might help to explain the Greens leadership of the insurgency is that we have been trained by Ralph Nader and others to distrust the motives of both major parties and to not look to them for all polital salvation but to pull ourselves up by our own grassroots, commonsense populism. We were MoveOn before there was a MoveOn and appearently we're still more true to the principals espoused by MoveOn than they themselves are. I'd say the same about Dean and his Democracy for America. Progressive Democratic Alliance seems to be thinking somewhat more independently and shows more hope for Dems at least at this stage. IMO. MoveOn and DfA could turn around at any time and jump to the head of the line and I would not complain at all. Positive leadership wherever it comes from is fine by me. I suspect other Greens feel similarly.

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No idea (2.00 / 1)

I have no idea. I have heard too many people say they will go green if the Dems elect moderates as Chair or Presidential nominee in 2008. It's utter BS. Look at the facts. Liberals can not win in what is a growing conservative country.

The Kentucky Democrat

by kydem on Sun Dec 12, 2004 at 04:00:26 PM EST

And you are insane. (3.00 / 1)

Insanity is continuing to do the same thing over and over and over again and expecting different results. We keep running to the right over and over and over again. We get crushed over and over and over again.

We have to stop trying to be Bush-light. We keep trying it. We keep losing. IT DOESN'T WORK. We are progressives and we need to provide progressive solutions to the country's problems.

by afs on Sun Dec 12, 2004 at 06:27:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And you are insane. (2.00 / 1)

perhaps I should been specific, Liberals can not win the Presidency. I don't know when the last time a liberal won the Presidency was. JFK and LBJ were moderates. So were Carter and Clinton. They enacted liberal policies but they campaigned as moderates.

I am not Bush-light or insane. We did not try it this year. We are losing because we are not campaigning in the midwest and the south. Trust me I know. The Democrats may be the progressive of the two but I have looked at the numbers.

Kentucky, for one, has heavy democratic registration. Why is there only one Democrat in the delegation? Why is there a republican governor? Because a majority of the Democrats are conservative in KY.

Bush will drag this country to the far right. The moderates in the GOP are being shunned. We have seen that with Specter almost not getting the judiciary cmte. chairmanship.

Ken Salazar distanced himself from John Kerry and won. So did the new Montana governor.

The Kentucky Democrat

by kydem on Sun Dec 12, 2004 at 06:54:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And you are insane. (2.00 / 1)

hey you are ky democrat. We really do need a moderate like Sen. Evan Bayh to run for the white house. No liberal can ever win the white house. As a democrat from Virginia I believe that John Kerry loss for being a ultra-liberal. Bayh- Warner 08

by mypresident on Sun Dec 12, 2004 at 07:02:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And you are insane. (2.00 / 1)

hey there. check out the Indy Star article I posted late last night on my blog!

The Kentucky Democrat

by kydem on Sun Dec 12, 2004 at 07:37:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And you are insane. (2.00 / 1)

that was a nice article

by mypresident on Sun Dec 12, 2004 at 07:59:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And you are insane. (2.00 / 1)

it most certainly was. now when will the rest of the party figure it out?

The Kentucky Democrat

by kydem on Sun Dec 12, 2004 at 08:09:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And you are insane. (2.00 / 1)

you're right ky democrat our party needs to realize that liberals don't win the white house. It is unbelievable that people believe liberals like Hillary Clinton can win the white house if Kerry could not do it. We democrats need to realize that our loss this election is do to the fact Bush called Kerry a liberal practicly every time because he was. We need to look forward not backward. I was really upset that the democrats could not make any head ways in Virginia- a state that is becoming less reliable Republican state. No democrat has won the white house without the south and to hear that liberals like Kerry say that we don't need the south is just mind-bongling

by mypresident on Sun Dec 12, 2004 at 08:19:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

afs is insane (1.00 / 1)

Repeating the same dogma about doing the same thing and expecting different results is insane. This is not new information or a deeply profound insight. Please stop the insanity of repeating ad nauseum that insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results. In case I didn't make my point clear, repeating the same worn out slogan and expecting different results is insane.

I'm sorry, did I mention that repeating the same slogan ad nauseum and expecting different results is insane? I thought maybe you didn't catch it the first time.

by Gary Boatwright on Mon Dec 13, 2004 at 01:28:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm sorry, did I mention that repeating the same slogan ad nauseum and expecting different results is insane? I thought maybe you didn't catch it the first time.

by Gary Boatwright on Mon Dec 13, 2004 at 01:30:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No idea (3.00 / 1)

Don't discount the idea of liberals and Greens jumping ship kydem. I voted for Nader in 2000 simply because in California my vote is largely a metaphysical exercise in citizenship anyway. But his anti-corporate fraud message was and is appealing. I voted for Kerry this year, but I could easily switch back to Green if the Dems disappoint and go spineless again.

Jamboi has several good points. Dems are threatened on the left and the right. The main thing we are looking for is positive principled leadership. By not stepping up to the plate and joining the vote fraud battle Kerry pissed off a lot of people who contributed to the vote challenge fund.

I can't explain why Dems have taken a back seat to the Greens and Libertarians. I suspect it is a cold political calculation when a lot of us are looking for some sign of belief in core principles. Count every vote is a fundamental core principle for me. Kerry pretended it was for him. I was never a strong Kerry supporter. Now I don't trust him one iota. The Dems are not far behind.

by Gary Boatwright on Mon Dec 13, 2004 at 01:38:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

asdf (3.00 / 1)

Because the Democrats - as currently organized with the leadership they have - are scared to do what it takes to win.

Which is why I respect the Greens (and Libertarians) more and more for their work in Ohio.

by IrishAlum on Sun Dec 12, 2004 at 06:51:20 PM EST

Wedge (2.00 / 1)

The Greens are running with the recount issue in Ohio because it lays the groundwork for them to draw away frustrated Ohio Democrat voters. For a small investment in time and money they have a ready made issue.

When Republicans tried to keep your votes from being counted, where were the Democrats? Where were the Democrats when Blackwell was keeping voting machines out of Black neighborhoods? Where were the Democrats when you were waiting in the rain two, four, six, even twelve hours to exercise your right to vote? Where was John Kerry when Jesse Jackson, and Common Cause and the Green Party stood before the Ohio statehouse and demanded that they count every vote? Did John Kerry report for duty when the battle to protect your rights was waging? John Kerry stood before you and promised to fight to insure that every votes was counted, yet while the Green Party went to every County of the State of Ohio and demanded a recount, John Kerry was busy trying to decide what to do with the millions of dollars that he had left over after the election.
Millions, ladies and gentlemen. That's the thing that the Democrats in Washington don't want to tell you. They make a pretty darned good living as losers. They don't need your vote. They've got the only thing that matters to them: money.
It's time for Ohio voters to face facts. The Democratic Party doesn't care about you. It could care less if your votes are counted or not. The Democrats in Washington care care about one thing: corporate money. The Green Party has proven to Ohio voters that we stand for you, that we will fight for your rights no matter what the cost. As representatives of the Green Party we say that there is a better way... that there is a Party that represents you. Your interests... your jobs... your future... and we ask you to stand with us as we try to recapture the American dream.

Kinda writes itself.

This issue could resonate very strongly with African American voters subjected to an array of Jim Crow methods, old and new.

I also think that they are gambling on the chance that there are corrupt Democrats behind some of the voter fraud out here. If the Blackwell and his cronies get pushed too far to the wall, look for them to start trying to shift the blame over to Democrats sitting on the board of elections.

Ohio voting is based on a partisan system. Two Republicans and two Democrats each keeping the other honest. The problem is that the Democrats have been VERY silent, especially on the County level when it comes to all this voter fraud. Why? While the Democrats down in Florida don't seem to care, the Green and Libertarian Parties are very interested.

Luckily for the Greens the Ohio Democratic Party is a cancer riddled corpse. Will it win them the Governor's mansion anytime soon? Nope. Will it help them increase the influence of the Party in Ohio state politics? You betcha.

(cross posted over @ Daily Kos)

Editor
Ohio 2nd Blog

by ignatzmouse on Mon Dec 13, 2004 at 01:19:09 PM EST

I agree w/ignatz (3.00 / 1)

I voted Cobb; will continue to vote Green in presidential elections, and to the degree possible, in lower elections, until the DNC, and even more the DLC, get a clue.

by steverino on Mon Dec 13, 2004 at 04:48:22 PM EST

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