Bad bloggers and the State-level DNC

by Jerome Armstrong, Sat Dec 11, 2004 at 09:47:44 PM EST

There's something wrong when the chairs and executive directors go on and on with their praise toward the internet that's brought millions into the coffers of the DNC, and then turns around and kicks Joe Trippi and his band of bloggers out of the meeting room when the "closed" (edit: closed to the press, but open to the public) Q & A with the DNC Chair candidates occurs. You could have walked right in off the street and into the candidate Hall unencumbered, but if you happened to be a blogger, or the guy who brought the strategy of embracing the small donor activist on the net for the Democratic Party, and he's got a blog, out you go.

There's something wrong when DNC Chair candidate Donnie Fowler, during his 5-minute presentation on his candidacy, singles out Matt Stoller as an example of embracing the technological ideas that are going to bring this party forward, and then some DNC staffer walks up to Stoller and tells him he's got to leave the room, because he's a blogger.

There's something wrong when the DNC members are holding a vital meeting on the "Fowler Amendments" which are the most reform-minded amendments to the DNC Charter in the last 30 years (a radical takeaway from DC-based members by the states), and the DNC closes the meeting to bloggers; not realizing that we are the vehicle to crusade for this reform (Stoller and I went inside anyway, even though we suffered getting kicked out halfway through the meeting).

There's something wrong when over and over throughout this meeting, there's been praise for the internet, the small donor, and I've even heard the term "Netroots" spoken here casually, a term I first used to describe what was happening with our campaign for Howard Dean back in the fall of 2002. And yet, even though we were invited to come to this event by the candidates themselves, even though there are many in DC that encouraged we come to this event and engage in the process, we were not welcome. In fact, we were thrown out of multiple meetings, even those that regular people off the street could attend.

There's praise for the internet here, rejoicing over the small donor, and they're using new-fangled words like netroots and blogosphere, but dem' bloggers that drive the leading edge of the battle, that raised millions for candidates and the DNC? Don't come, you're not really welcome.

That was a problem I mostly worked around while here in Orlando for the DNC meeting. Except for the full-colored brunt I gave to some suit from North Dakota that came up to me and said "bloggers leave", I held it cool and in-check.  I've dealt with bumping against authority quite a lot, and can deal with the laggard mentality. But it is a problem. I guarantee you that Frank Luntz is not getting kicked out of any RNC meetings; but that blogger Joe Trippi can't stay inside the room, it means there's something wrong inside the DNC.

And it's not just in DC, as most of these ED's, VC's and Chairs from the states seem to think. Nevermind the bizarre disconjunct of their kicking us out while they eye the DNC coffers from the internet's small donor with greed. Put aside their praise for Terry McAuliffe having figured out how to hook up 2 million new activist small donors, while they kick out the activists that help make it happen. We want to hear what they are going to do to reform the DNC inside the states, because it's inside the states, not just in DC, that this reform needs to happen.

Since I was kicked out of the Q & A "closed" meeting with the candidates, I can freely blog it (if I had stayed, I certainly would not have). In that meeting, a couple of DNC candidates had the fortitude to tell these states what they needed to do, and for that, they not only got the least number of votes in the exit poll that we did, we had respondents that singled out that they would not support Harold Ickes, just because he told them the truth.

What Ickes told the state executive directors, and the state chairs, was that they needed to get their shit together, to build up their own in-state small donor base, to put together a business plan, and quit whining about getting a hold of the DNC's money. It's the truth. Go and look at some of these state Democratic Party websites, they are pathetic. Even the good ones suck. Ickes told them to get to work, they didn't like that, so he's in my top three.  A lot of these states didn't get jack for this election, but a few of them, most importantly, Florida, Missouri, Ohio, and Iowa got millions and millions, and they not only failed to win (except Michigan), not only are their rumors of financial corruption I've heard about a few of those, but they are not being held accountable.

I'm all for taking DC to task, Democrats there need it; but we need to reform the Party at the state level too. After being inside their meetings for three days, I can tell you, many of these states have directors and officers that need a good reform-minded kick in the ass out the door a lot more than we did.




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Fuckin' aye (3.00 / 2)

And don't forget the fact that that Michigan Mark Brewer kept relishing kicking out bloggers, as if he were so clever that he knew what a blogger was and how they were secret press or something.  We've moved from a losing party of the 20th centurty to a losing party of the 21st century.
by Matt Stoller on Sat Dec 11, 2004 at 10:01:54 PM EST

Fuckin' Mark (none / 0)

Mark sounds like an asshole, maybe people should give him a call. If you want to leave a message for him at work try (517) 371-5410 or just call him at home (586) 954-3042. Hate mail can be sent to:

Mark Brewer
37414 Stonegate Cir.
Clinton Twp., MI 48036


Bob Brigham Blog
by Bob Brigham on Sat Dec 11, 2004 at 10:22:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Mark (3.00 / 1)

Is all that really necessary?  Would you want the same thing done to you?
The Kentucky Democrat
by kydem on Sat Dec 11, 2004 at 10:42:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

necessary, no (none / 0)

but neither was kicking out bloggers and "relishing" violating our Party's own Charter makes in justified.
Bob Brigham Blog
by Bob Brigham on Sat Dec 11, 2004 at 10:48:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: necessary, no (none / 0)

I was there and I contest the description of "relishing."
by Jenny Greenleaf on Sat Dec 11, 2004 at 10:55:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

As the DNC website states (3.00 / 1)

the power of the grassroots will not put back in the bottle."

I can't unpost a comment and I probably wouldn't if I could. We'll see how the events unfold and people can choose to call him or choose not to call him.

Relishing or not, the kicking people out of the room is very un-Democratic (capital or lowercase).

In the end, people are free to call or not to call and all of the information is public.

Bob Brigham Blog
by Bob Brigham on Sat Dec 11, 2004 at 11:03:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: As the DNC website states (none / 0)

I don't know if you remember the woman fired for putting a Kerry sticker on her car.  Someone went public with all that information of her boss and in the end, she was offered her job back but not a minute before she was offered one by John Kerry.
The Kentucky Democrat
by kydem on Sat Dec 11, 2004 at 11:10:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: necessary, no (1.00 / 0)

I can feel your sentiment.  Maybe they had their reasons.  Did they kick out other media?
The Kentucky Democrat
by kydem on Sat Dec 11, 2004 at 10:57:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

reasons (none / 0)

I'm sorry but the charter did say anything about it being alright if you have reasons. Every bad person who has ever done a bad thing had reasons.
Bob Brigham Blog
by Bob Brigham on Sat Dec 11, 2004 at 11:05:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: reasons (none / 0)

There are no bad people.  Everything is relative.  Therefore everyone is great!
by Matt Stoller on Sun Dec 12, 2004 at 10:03:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Bush? Rumsfeld? Cheney? n/t (none / 0)


by DC Pol Sci on Sun Dec 12, 2004 at 11:23:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: necessary, no (3.00 / 2)

At this meeting there were several events open to the press, others not. They were pretty clearly marked on the agenda, and at the beginning of the session, Mark said exactly what the format would be: 5-minute statements by the candidates at which time press, including bloggers, would be asked to leave so there could be a less-public Q&A and there would be room for the official attendees to sit.

The room was crowded with press and big cameras and photographers. This wasn't really a press event or orchestrated that way. The press was invited to come to the candidate speeches. Matt and Jerome went to several other sessions that weren't supposed open to the press. I didn't see any other press at those, but I could have missed them.

I don't want to get into a fight with Matt and Jerome, because I think they're really great. I love what they do. This just seems like getting mad because you got caught sneaking into the drive-in.

I didn't think it was absolutely necessary to ask anyone to leave, but I'm not an official member of the ASDC and I don't make the rules. I'm just a member of the DNC and was a guest of my state vicechair, who I think is very good.

by Jenny Greenleaf on Sat Dec 11, 2004 at 11:13:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: necessary, no (3.00 / 2)

Jenny,

They kicked out press and only press.  Any random person was allowed to walk in off the street and attend.  We promised them we wouldn't write about anything in a closed session, but they deliberately kicked us out anyway.  Any random person off the street could send an email about what they were watching, tape it, do whatever they wanted with it.  But we're bloggers, so we must be different.

Why kick out Joe Trippi?  Why kick me out?  Donnie Fowler mentioned me in his speech as someone pioneering new technology.  What the fuck?

This was idiotic.  Just dumb.  And rude, too.

by Matt Stoller on Sun Dec 12, 2004 at 12:32:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: necessary, no (none / 0)

Blogs are looking like the thing of the future.  Heck, I'm linked from the DSCC blog!

No one should be kicked out of any Democratic Party meetings in my opinion.  WE HAVE TO REBUILD THE PARTY BY STRATEGIZING AND ORGANIZING.

You can expect that the Kentucky Democrat will improve in the years to come though I was busy campaigning that I went from July to November with no updates.

The Kentucky Democrat
by kydem on Sun Dec 12, 2004 at 12:37:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: necessary, no (none / 0)

When I first read about this incident here and at Kos, my first reaction was, "what are they whining about? Shouldn't a blog be considered press?" Then it occurred to me that neither Matt nor Jerome pretend to be objective; they're partisans in the forefront of the newer wave of the party and, as such, should be included.  Under that construct (and were I in power), I would have let them stay and trusted their word not to publish info about the session until some later, agreed upon time.  I'm not sure I would have been able to trust someone in Trippi's position, not simply because he works for msnbc, but because he may have some obligation to report what he observes.  Nonetheless, it would be a shame to exclude him...he has such a symbolic presence, emblematic of a new direction for the party.  All in all (and after some thought on the issue), I think it's  a matter of the party still being fossil fodder and not clearly looking to the future.  As for sending anyone "hate mail," well, that's just goofey, in my opinion.  We all have work to do.
by ksh on Sun Dec 12, 2004 at 01:56:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Nothing personal, ky (none / 0)

For some reason, we just end up on opposite sides of the issues.  I respect your opinion while totally disagreeing with you.

There's a sea change taking place in Democratic politics.  Depending on what side you're on, it's either exhilarating or scary as hell.  

The D's need to develop a killer instinct.  It's about winning.  And any Party leader who can't tolerate a couple of friendly blogger who were agreeing to be sworn to secrecy lacks SOMETHING, most likely the killer instinct.

That Michigan chair needs to understand that there are repercussions to his stupid acts.  Money, volunteer effort, etc.  And he needs to learn NOW, before we are forced to to circle the wagons.  (As so many of us did when we swallowed our pride and started working for Kerry..ugh)

Am I being harsh?  You betcha.  Because, in the end, this intraparty stuff is secondary to winning elections.  We need our eventual leadership to learn how to win amongst ourselves so we can win when it counts.  It's not like the Republicans try to be "nice" to us - or to the American people, for that angle.  The Republicans play to win.  We CAN do that, too, and not compromise our core beliefs.  It's not like Truman was a perfect gentleman, nor JFK or Clinton for that matter.  All of them were willing to take the gloves off when necessary.

Perhaps I might suggest a little statement from Sean Connery in one of his movies, which sums up the attitude I'm looking for (figuratiively, not literally):

"He pulls a knife, you pull a gun. He sends one of yours to the hospital, you send one of his to the morgue."

Get my picture?

by IrishAlum on Sun Dec 12, 2004 at 05:16:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nothing personal, ky (none / 0)

He may not- but I do. In game theory that's called brinkmanship- and it is exactly correct. the way the approach works in to force the otherside to play with you- or realize there will be consquences that they will not like. KYDEm and folks like him from what I keep seeing them post either don't get how negotiations work or don't see it like that- and keep thinking we can convince either the Republicans or the American people that we are something that we aren't. The question becomes how can we get out the present crazy cycle to cause a shift back toward a real center? The answer is to make the other side feel like there is something at stake if they don't deal with us. Falli ng all over ourselves to be like them in terms of convincing the same constituencies is not a way to convince them of our power.

Let me give you a concrete example of how leadership from a position of power works versus leadership from the point of fear works. During the swift boat ads, Kerry waited a month to speak to them, and when he finally came out he in essense asked Bush to denounce them. Does anyone see anything wrong with this? Well, if you are the old style go along, be civil Democrat- of course not. And pre 9.11 where the country was not looking for strong, tough leadership you may have had a shot of being correct. I won't get into the triangulation problems with this. Instead, I will focus on the gut level problem with him asking for Bush to denounce the Swift boaters. Basically, it made Kerry (according to my friends who are not as political as me) seem weak. I heard something similar from a nother poster over on Daily Kos.

It made it seem like Kerry needed Bush to denounce the Swift Boat Liars.  A sign of weakness. What would someone with a killer instinct have done? He would have started with calling Bush a liar, and never mentioned the need to denounce the ads. Why? Guilt by association. Calling him a liar of course would have  been a risk- but it would have represented a great salvo for a more general discussion that would have built of in the public's mind of Bush as a liar that Kerry could have used throughout the fall campaiqn. Everytime the Republicans do something like this- this would have allowed Kerry to return to the reframe this man's a ball faced Liar. It's meant to be harsh for a reason- that reason is that Kerry is tough- he says it like it is. Instead, he couldn't even say stuff like this straight. "This man is misdirecting you" and blah, blah blah. What did that mean in terms of brinkmanship- it forces different plays by the other team onto the table. Everytime they say something- it becomes about- is he telling a lie now? Is that a lie? what about that?

This is just a quick example of how a willingness to take risk and have killer instincts can change the nature of the debate. the same may hold true with the blogger issue. I have not strong opinions here. BUt, with this post, I am reminded that once again- this is a party that doesn't understand the advantage of risk. In someways, taking risks is what the American dream is all about.

by bruh21 on Sun Dec 12, 2004 at 05:41:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Welcome aboard, bruh21 (none / 0)

Wow - what a terrific post.  I'm not worthy.

But I'll try to pile on....

We don't give money and time so our "leaders" can feel good about themselves.  We do so to WIN.  And, by winning, we affect change through implementation of the policies we are supporting.  

If you don't win, your money and time is flushed down the toilet.  

With the contempt displayed toward newcomers (bloggers and Dean supporters, I'll lump them together for this argument), I wonder how long those newcomers will keep supporting the establishment.  

We give voluntarily, and we can withhold voluntarily as well.  

And I hear that Cobb guy and the Greens are representing well in Ohio...

by IrishAlum on Sun Dec 12, 2004 at 05:50:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Welcome aboard, bruh21 (none / 0)

Ohio is yet another example of a lack of how Dems leading. Over at Kos there was a bunch of yelling back and forth-fraud or not fraud. My point, which was lost because well I am an a--hole is that who gives a fuck- lets use this to sully the Republicans by investigating it and maybe causes some real election reform. Kerry didn't have to say- I think this is fraud- all he had to say- if he were any leader at all- was you know I promised my people i was going to do something- and come hell or high water I am going to do it. You can think whatever you want of me- but I am a man of my word. Everytime the republicans would say something about it- all he had to do was stay on message- "I am a man of my word." I keep my promises. The public and press would have been resistant- but if he repeated this sound bite over and over- what would people within a week of the news cycles be saying. "you know, I don't like that kerry, but he's a man of his word." I would also parade as many rank and file out as possible supporting him with banners saying- a promise made, a promised kept. This wouldn't win us anything this time around- but it would start a frame that we could use in the next few months against bush- as we compare our positive trait- of keeping apromise to his negative one of not keeping a promise. that then could be used in 2006 in the mid terms to again bring up the question of REpublicans as liars- you see how long term strategy works here- you  use individual instances for long term outcomes even when its not clear you are going to win it in the short term- you begin the construction of it. You reward also the people who do this.  I learned that from the Jedi master that is Karl Rowe.
by bruh21 on Sun Dec 12, 2004 at 06:16:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

asdf (none / 0)

Somebody get this person a blog.  

Great comments.  Agreed 100%.  

by IrishAlum on Sun Dec 12, 2004 at 06:49:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nothing personal, ky (none / 0)

I have studied politics for 4 years now.  I know what works and what does not.

Did you see the article in the Indianapolis Star?
2008 could be Bayh's best shot.  I highly encourage you to read it.  Will anyone take on Dick Lugar in 2006?

I am already getting flamed on Kos for being a moderate Democrat in the DLC and it's reached the point where I cannot go to that site without being FLAMED, ATTACKED, etc.

This article has a good point.

If I hear another person tell me that I am Bushlite, GOP lite or insane, I will go crazy.

The Kentucky Democrat
by kydem on Sun Dec 12, 2004 at 07:04:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nothing personal, ky (none / 0)

Well that definitely means you should ignore other people's arguments that disagree with your disproven opinion.  When are you going to get back to me about my arguments to you about the problems with the DLC's lurch to the right (a la traingulation) instead of toward leadership? And, by the way, I am a moderate- so this b.s. about you being a poor misunderstood moderate is b.s.  As I remember the excuse was that you were studying?

At least, that was the excuse- like I said before-I am happy to see desenting views b/c it challenges each of us to do better- but back them up with actual electoral wins that can not be refuted (hint: that means no elections involving a charismatic once in a life time politician who still had to win with the help of a Perot). This is coming from a former Clintonite who believed the guy walked on water, but who now realizes that like many love affairs, the nostalgia doesn't hold up to the actual history.

CW is like opinions is like assholes- everyones got one. What makes them different is when you can point to meaningful facts (and nothing says meaningful like sucess like winning an election with your strategy). Point to a single win? I double dare you. For example- above I talk about the strategies that I suggest, and how they are similar to the long term strategies of Karl Rowe (who is playing chess). i.e., Id an opponents real weakness, and relentlessly hammer away at that without fear of the risks involved.  The key element is without fear of risk (one of Bush's strategists was on Charle Roses making this very point after the Democratic Convention).  

Where have we seen him do that- hands? hands? It was in the flip flopper label for Kerry- they came up with that in the early Spring despite the media talking heads discussing the lang  mines of the label.  Like Maureen Dowd said recently of Kerry- how could any Democrat be shocked that a Republican was going to attempt to label him as weak? Yet, there we were- shocked.  

You can even pick a part my position-but a conclusion without any facts is a waste of electrons.  Then again, maybe your theory is that if you say Bayh, Bayh, Bayh enough- we will not notice the lemon you are selling? Well let me just let you know that mostly it will just make most reformers just want to say bye, bye, bye.

by bruh21 on Sun Dec 12, 2004 at 08:02:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nothing personal, ky (none / 0)

what is CW?
The Kentucky Democrat
by kydem on Sun Dec 12, 2004 at 08:07:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nothing personal, ky (none / 0)

Look it up
by bruh21 on Sun Dec 12, 2004 at 08:08:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nothing personal, ky (none / 0)

I have looked at enough political history to know that liberal Dems cannot be elected President.  Wilson, JFK, LBJ, Carter, and Clinton were all moderates.  I don't know about FDR.  In some places, we do well running liberals but in many places among the Midwest and South, we simply do not.

This is the end of my study break and back to studying.  I have a very early final tomorrow that I must get back to studying for.

The Kentucky Democrat
by kydem on Sun Dec 12, 2004 at 08:15:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nothing personal, ky (none / 0)

Lets try this one more time- You remind me of my grandmother- she hears what she wants to hear. This isn't about moderate liberal or conservative- its about the real L word- Leadership. If you think people are dumber than you- if you think you are going to hookwink them into thinking Dems aren't the liberal party, and that the Republicans aren't the conservative party (that's the brand- live with it or move on because that's the reality of a two party system- one party will take on one banner and the other party will take on other banner) then you don't understand politics as well as you think. It's like me telling someone I am not a black guy. They can look at me and see that's not true. This is what you arguing. When people are saying not to run away from being a Democrat- it's not about being conservative, moderate or liberal- its an argument about standing up as leaders. Saying hell now we are not weak, and you know what if you try a smack down with me, you are going to get you arm bit off. Do you know any Republican who would act in manner you suggest? And, how many elections have they lost v. how many have we lost?
by bruh21 on Sun Dec 12, 2004 at 08:22:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nothing personal, ky (none / 0)

Incidentally- check out someone who I disagree with on some of his policies, and didn't support in the general but with whom I do agree with about the Dems. You will notice he even supports your 50 state strategy- but from what I have seen and heard of his DFA he does it in the way that I believe will work- going local: That person is Dean. This is what he said on the meet the press:

What we do have to do is look at what the Republicans do well and, frankly, what we did well at Democracy for America.  We elected candidates in places like Alabama and Utah and Idaho and Georgia.  Democrats can win in those places.  First, I think we have to have a 50-state strategy, and secondly, I really believe we have to stand up for being Democrats.  We have a message to sell.  I frankly think it's a better message than the Republicans; we've just got to figure out how to get it out there.  Grassroots, empowering people elsewhere in the country, instead of trying to run things from the top down, I think, is the way to do it.  It was successful for us.  I think it can be successful for the Democratic National Committee.
...We can't afford the Republicans.  We've got to get rid of them as fast as fast as possible because they can't run the country properly.  And so I concluded that trying to move the party in a direction where we can start winning elections at the local level first, because that's where it all starts, and then at the national level as fast as we can is the right thing to do.

...I understand what it is to empower people who aren't in Washington.  I think we can't win anymore unless the message is made in the states and then filters up to Washington rather than made at the DNC and then we tell the state parties what to do because the message--there'll be an overall Democratic message, but the message needs to come from places like Alabama, not just Minnesota, if we're going to win and have a chance in Alabama.  So I think I have a lot to offer the DNC and we'll see if they agree with me or not.

..I'm hoping actually, oddly as it sounds for me, to be a somewhat of a consensus person.  I'm hoping that we'll be able to bring all the factions together.  It's going to take some time, because I really fried the party while I was out there running for president, I think with some good reason.  But I am a Democrat.  I think the Democratic Party is a far better vehicle for reforming America than some other vehicle that you'd have to start from scratch or some interest group.  And in the long run, if we can make the Democratic Party the party of real reform, then I think we'd really gain something for the country.

by bruh21 on Sun Dec 12, 2004 at 08:47:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Sigh. Again. (none / 0)

Look, I couldn't care less about Evan Bayh.  I've LIVED through Evan Bayh and seen a politician with no coattails, no message, no pride in his Democratic roots and no philosophy beyond what the pollsters tell him to think.  

Oh, and his lousy economic policies as Governor raided the state police and fire pension funds while he was too much of a wuss to tell the people of Indiana we needed a tax increase if we wanted to maintain our low standard of state government.  Terrific - a credit card Governor.  

Bayh is a vessel for nothing more than AMBITION.  He has no guiding principles.  I've heard him speak too many times, and each time I keep wondering what it is that gets him up in the morning past, "I wanna be President."  Ambition for ambition's sake, I tell you.

On Lugar '06 - my frustration with Bayh now extends to the Indiana Democratic Party as Bayh installed his former state director, Dan Parker, as Party Chair.  I strongly predict that Lugar will have nothing more than token opposition in '06.  Lugar is a folk hero-cum-legend who has not had his credibility challenged for over a decade.  Bayh won't risk angering anyone in Indiana while laying groundwork for '08.  And the Indiana Democratic Party is in an organizational shambles.  

by IrishAlum on Sun Dec 12, 2004 at 09:06:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sigh. Again. (none / 0)

My friend's father was just laid off by the party up there with all the losses.  I hope Mayor Peterson is wise enough to run against Lugar and defeat him.
The Kentucky Democrat
by kydem on Sun Dec 12, 2004 at 09:17:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Peterson (none / 0)

Smart man.  Smart enough to avoid the Lugar juggernaut.  But probably the only Dem who could beat him.  

Maybe, just MAYBE, if Kernan retooled himself as more of the man of the people that he is (I've had beer with the man), he could win.  But that would be a longshot.

Other than that, we're screwed.  The Democratic bench is ridiculously thin.  And with Daniels in charge, it's not going to get better for us anytime soon.

by IrishAlum on Sun Dec 12, 2004 at 09:24:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Peterson (none / 0)

I truly do feel ya there.  Ben Chandler and Jonathan Miller are the best things Kentucky has going for us.  It's very sad that Kentuckians can not get liberal Democrats elected.

Watch for me to be a rising star soon.

The party as a whole has some big work to do.

And after Peterson or Kernan take care of Lugar.  Ben Chandler or Jonathan Miller will defeat Mitch McConnell.

Instead of focusing the anger on centrists like me, focus it on rebuilding the party and getting the GOP out.

The Kentucky Democrat
by kydem on Sun Dec 12, 2004 at 09:54:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nothing personal, ky (none / 0)

I keeping having to say I am absolutely against all this Kerry-bashing.  We need Team Democrat!
No circular firing squad.
by Baltimore on Sun Dec 12, 2004 at 08:01:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nothing personal, ky (none / 0)

This isn't Kerry bashing- it's trying to understand what went wrong, and what went right. If we can't do this without a bunch of pollyana b.s, then we've got bigger problems than Kerry bashing. I can tell you what his campaign did right, what they did wrong, and how I think we can improve for the future. He did the debates mostly right- he could have been better- but given his personality- that was probably the best we were going to get. He failed at the vision thing. Not-the-other guy isn't a vision. He failed the leadership test. Again, not-the-other guy is not leadership. If you don't believe me- believe the polls (but, I don't see you believe those either?). What we need to improve for the future is our leadership and message abilities- we need a strong back bench. I can tell you what non Kerry, but Democratic things that went well. Mobilization went relatively well. It can be better- one way is to use inside the state people as the base of recruits- this whole finding people in NY to go to Oh was crazy shit. Why not build the Ohio Dems up? Do you see how this isn't bashing?
by bruh21 on Sun Dec 12, 2004 at 08:07:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nothing personal, ky (none / 0)

What they did wrong?  They just about completely ruled out the south and Midwest by not campaigning there.
The Kentucky Democrat
by kydem on Sun Dec 12, 2004 at 08:16:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nothing personal, ky (none / 0)

We've had the SOuth discussion. You dont want to hear that one again. The real issue in the South is that you need to rebuild the party locally. The real issue is also demographics. More old guard white folks, than the new South of a mixed demographic. Will this change? Yes. Does it matter if you stick Evan Bayh up there- No. Why? Because it's a political reallignment. Which is a long term strategic movement thing- not a short term let's fooling with this Trojan horse over here that looks like 'em. Again, do you think they are stupid?
by bruh21 on Sun Dec 12, 2004 at 08:25:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nothing personal, ky (none / 0)

Oh, and by the way, sadly it wasn't like he didn't have a vision. He did. Did you read the NY Times article where he talked about terrorism? It was actually, if he was brave enough to fight for, a brilliant point. In a nutshell, he was arguing that "we have nothing to fear, but fear itself." It was a "Morning in America" vision. When he said that terrorism would not interupt the fabric of our lives- he was telling those people that were afraid- you need not always be afraid. That the best days are ahead of us.  When Bush kept saying- you are living in a pre-09/11 world. His response based on hiw own views should have been- you are damn straight- I want to return us to a place where every american live without fear- that the fabric of their lives are determined by how best to raise their kids, how to make sure they are healthy, have an education, and in short live the american dream. If having that dream is living in a pre 0911 world- I guess i am gulty. But, instead of doing this- instead of using sweeping visionary language of Presidents and leaders he choose to wrap himself in the safety of wonkisms and risk free wordings such as My opponent is misleadig you american and I have  plan. What's better- I have a plan- or I have a dream?
by bruh21 on Sun Dec 12, 2004 at 08:17:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Don't do that (none / 0)

I can't think of anything worse for Reform Democrats right now than orchestrating negative mail (or negative phone calls) to the home address of a state Dem bad guy. If you want to change the Michigan Democratic Party, get involved, either with the party itself or with one of the groups in Michigan which can put pressure on it. (Say, the SEIU.) Personal attacks of the kind blogswarm recommend make the netroots look like angry high school students (no, I do NOT mean Stephen Yellin, whom I hope would agree with me on this one). More important, such attacks won't do any good.
by accommodatingly on Sun Dec 12, 2004 at 12:47:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I didn't advocate anything (none / 0)

Just like the internet makes it easier to donate, it also makes it easier to complain.

In other words, if you don't like the carrot, let me shove the stick down your throat. But I'm not advocating anything...yet.

However, if I do you can be damn sure it will be cross-posted on every public forum this side of LGF.

Bob Brigham Blog
by Bob Brigham on Sun Dec 12, 2004 at 01:34:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fuckin' Mark (none / 0)

This is childish and should be removed

This crosses the line between a blog and freeperdom.

Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.
by Parker on Sun Dec 12, 2004 at 06:13:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fuckin' Mark (none / 0)

Sounds like Mark was childish and should be removed.
Bob Brigham Blog
by Bob Brigham on Sun Dec 12, 2004 at 02:14:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fuckin' Mark (none / 0)

Wow, I can't believe it. The dem leaders, responsible for losing every branch of goverment, kick out their workhorses and their future, and people are ungrateful for them for that? What fucking audacity!

You bloggers should be, like, totally greatful to even be allowed within ten feet of any high ranking state or national DNC figure. Instead you want people to write letters, some that are even angry sounding (!) to some of the bigger jerks of the party. What the fuck are you bloggers thinking?! We dems have a long and proud tradition (10-15 years) of apologizing for getting punched in the face by bad guys. If we write angry letters to anyone, or get indignant that would, like, be totally disruptive to the status quo. And what I, a flatearth-centrist-dem-who-has-sole-ownership-to-what-constitutes-"reality" can tell you is that you're all crazy.

Matt and Jerome, you're no better than that Michael Moore whose populist message was directly responsible for our loss this year. I have wasted enough time on you people, however - you will be relegated to the dustbin-of-history just like all other marginalized groups are. Compromise and compromise again...and oh, yeah keep them check comin'!

Political Physics
by cgilbert01 on Sun Dec 12, 2004 at 04:10:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Unbelievable... (3.00 / 0)

Makes me sick.

But, there's not a damn thing I can do about it, unless you folks name names.

Who kicked you out? Who are "they"?

If the netroots activists can beat Sinclair senseless for a movie, then we should be able to beat some sense into our own party, for Christ's sake.

The frustrating thing for me is, I have no idea who my DNC representative is. Do I have one? Is s/he accountable to anybody? How did s/he get such a position? How can I get ahold of her?

Just like the federal government, the national parties are too far removed from the people they're supposed to represent, and they're far too susceptible to corruption.

by Toadvine on Sat Dec 11, 2004 at 10:08:10 PM EST

Apply now for DNC vote Credentials (none / 0)

If you want credentials for the DNC vote, contact:

For Press Credentials, please contact Parag Chokshi (chokship@dnc.org) or Tony Welch (welcht@dnc.org) preferably by email (by phone if necessary at 202-863-8148).

When you talk to them, ask them who on was fired for these actions, specifically for violating Article 9, Sect.12 of the Democratic Charter.

Then, after you've done that, visit the front DNC front page where Terry McAliffe brags about spending the last four years, "making the power of grassroots activism a top priority." Of course, he's right when he says, "power of the grassroots will not put back in the bottle." But his staff is dead wrong by violating the Party's own charter to exclude bloggers.

Doing better begins with accountability. There is no way around it. Somebody needs to get fired and even more importantly so does that person's boss. This is total bullshit.

Bob Brigham Blog
by Bob Brigham on Sat Dec 11, 2004 at 10:15:35 PM EST

How About a Nice Kick in the Pants? (none / 0)

I'm tired of getting no respect from the DNC.  You can bet that the bloggers and their fundraising abilities will be more than welcome during the next election cycle.  Throw Joe Trippi out and let Terry McAwful stay?  Insulting!

What will the suicidal Democrats do to pull the chair out of Howard Dean's potential DNC Chairmanship?  Haven't they noticed that Dean has been right all along?

Sure they have.  They just like losing.

by donna in evanston on Sat Dec 11, 2004 at 10:17:56 PM EST

Oh, Calm Down (3.00 / 3)

The state chairs and vice chairs and EDs wanted to have a very frank discussion with the candidates. Yes, Jerome and Matt, I know you're cool, but if the press is invited that means FOX news is invited too. Can you blame people for being a little gunshy given the way the media usually covers things? Or do you think there should be a special dispensation for bloggers?

I'm just as new to this process as you are, maybe more so, but I don't find it nearly as overbearing. This isn't a DNC meeting: it's a meeting of the Association of State Democratic Chairs. Their bylaws are probably different than the DNCs.

One thing the states brought up over and over again was that the DNC treated people in the states like ATMs. Everyone, not just the people on the Internet. Remember the DNC canvassers that showed up with no notice to the state parties? The states got their territory burned; people didn't give money because they'd already given to the DNC. The states got no share of the money nor any accounting as to how it was spent. The DNC raised $192 MILLION out of California. Know how much they got back to help with local races? $0.

I've been told that the DNC used to give the states money and stopped several years ago. Power has ended up in Washington and in the hands of a cadre of consultants. The states are trying to bring money back to local areas to support grassroots activism. There's a lot of tension between the states and the DNC.

Ickes has been after the state parties for 20 years. He's a big part of the Washington establishment. Clinton's Chief of Staff, the DLC favorite, remember?

Yes, the state parties need help. Many don't even have a single paid staff member! They've been allowed to atrophy because the DNC just shows up at presidential election time and does little to help with downballot races. Know how important those are? Two names: Blackwell and Harris.

Many of these chairs and vice chairs will be replaced in the January reorganizations. Want to have input? Go get involved as a precinct person and run for your state central committee. Then you can elect the chair. That's the only way we're going to take the party back. Be prepared to be in it for awhile though--parties usually only reorganize every 2 years.

Dean wants to put $5 million into the states right away to pay for an executive director and a grassroots organizer in every state. That enables us to develop messages from the bottom up. He gets it.

That all said, it would have been nice to let you guys stay, and I know you're mad. But that would have meant the entire press corp would stay, poking their videocameras and lights into our faces, and we would have to live with whatever spin they decided to put on the story. It was clearly stated on the agenda what was open to press and what wasn't.  I'm a DNC member and there was a session I couldn't go to. That was fine with me; the ASDC is entitled to conduct some of its business in private.

by Jenny Greenleaf on Sat Dec 11, 2004 at 10:53:23 PM EST

Re: Oh, Calm Down (none / 0)

Ickes has been after the state parties for 20 years. He's a big part of the Washington establishment. Clinton's Chief of Staff, the DLC favorite, remember?
I watched a debate on Friday between From, Borosage, and Rothenberg.  The DNC Chairman topic came up and Al From of the DLC clearly said he had no favorite.  He and Rothenberg were the only ones not to give a name.  I covered this in my blog.
The Kentucky Democrat
by kydem on Sat Dec 11, 2004 at 11:03:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

of course From has a favorite (none / 0)

He just knows that if he says it he'll sink their campaign.
Bob Brigham Blog
by Bob Brigham on Sun Dec 12, 2004 at 12:03:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: of course From has a favorite (none / 0)

Well, my favorite is certainly not Harold Ickes.  Rather, it's Simon Rosenberg.
The Kentucky Democrat
by kydem on Sun Dec 12, 2004 at 12:22:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh, Calm Down (none / 0)

Just for the record, Ickes was not Chief of Staff, but deputy to Panetta, handling political affairs (ie, re-election). He was put in that position in part because of his strong ties to labor and progressive wing of the party, which in early 95 looked like it would offer a primary challenge to Clinton. Ickes was able to keep the progressives on board, which was the single most important factor in winning re-election in 96.

And he was never really a DLC guy; in fact, in 88, he was Jackson's (yes, Jesse) liason to the Party in negotiations over the convention and platform.

by desmoulins on Sun Dec 12, 2004 at 01:35:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I stand corrected (none / 0)

Thanks. My depth of knowledge on some of the old players is minimal. I'll start googling before posting.
by Jenny Greenleaf on Sun Dec 12, 2004 at 05:20:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh, Calm Down (none / 0)

The ATM thing is so sadly true. The Democratic Party doesn't need vast amounts of money to win elections. The Democratic Party needs the right attitude, it needs the right supporter base, and it needs the right leaders to project that attitude and attract that base.

The DNC would do well to take some notes from the Dean campaign. I'm not a Dean fan, but the Dean campaign got all the elements right; it just didn't last long enough.

Milking supporters for every last dollar isn't the right strategy. The DNC panhandled me for money on the streets of Philadelphia more times than I can count, but they never asked me to canvass or write letters or put up signs. That was a major and fatal mistake, and it happened over and over again, on just about every Democratic campaign I know of.

So many people wanted to do something, but they had no clue what to do, and in the end they just did nothing. The Dean campaign got people motivated and got people out, and that was its greatest success, a success for which the Democratic Party is still indebted.

Damn you, automated party machine!

by Joe Jones on Sun Dec 12, 2004 at 01:19:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh, Calm Down (none / 0)

The APM:-). I like it.

The party's going to be undergoing a lot of changes. New chairs and vice chairs will be elected in January. New committeemembers have already been elected.

Some of the changes are bound to be painful and some people will be for them and some not. The DNC is just made up of people, like any family or business organization. They're human beings. Sometimes they do stupid stuff without meaning too and people get their feelings hurt.

Let's just try to resolve it for next time. If everyone stakes out hard positions, it's that much harder to come together later. We are all on the same team here, I hope.

by Jenny Greenleaf on Sun Dec 12, 2004 at 01:33:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh, Calm Down (none / 0)

I want to be more like Jenny Greenleaf. (No, seriously, I do. In all sorts of ways.)

That doesn't mean some Michigan career-party bozo was right to kick Matt and Jerome out of a meeting; it means Jenny Greenleaf has the right attitude about it, the attitude that can help Democrats win next cycle. (In Oregon and across the map.)

by accommodatingly on Sun Dec 12, 2004 at 01:56:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

next time (none / 0)

Yeah, like next time the balloons will fall right at the convention.

I'm tired of hearing next time. I want accountability. I want people fired the first time the balloons don't drop. I want people fired for this.

Bob Brigham Blog
by Bob Brigham on Sun Dec 12, 2004 at 01:58:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Have you ever made a mistake? (3.00 / 2)

Ever in your life blogswarm? Did you ever drive too fast and get pulled over? Wouldn't you rather have a warning than a ticket? Do you have any forgiveness in your soul for someone who thought they were doing the right thing and made a mistake?

The first rule of assertiveness training is to understand that people can't change their behavior if you haven't told them what bothers you. I find that I get better results if I calmly and politely tell them that they did something that hurt my feelings and I'd rather they didn't do it again. It gives us a place to negotiate from.

by Jenny Greenleaf on Sun Dec 12, 2004 at 02:16:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm not here to compromise (none / 0)

Democratic leaders do enough of that. I'm here to drive a hard line and not back down. I'm not interested in negotiating, I'm interested in knowing who was fired.

I don't care if they do it again because if they do I'll escalate. I don't want them doing it in the first place.

And I don't think, "they were doing the right thing and made a mistake." I think they are small-minded fools holding back the Party. I want them removed from the Party. Nothing less.

Bob Brigham Blog
by Bob Brigham on Sun Dec 12, 2004 at 03:25:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm waiting: has forgiving and compromising worked (none / 0)

Do the balloons fall at the right time. Has forgiving the people who can't make them fall made them fall properly the next time? Has compromising made some of the balloons fall close to the right time?

No, the balloons continue to be fucked up and the MSM gets to spend a week pointing out how Democrats are incompetent. Which is fair, because that is incompetence.

Incompetence should be punished, not rewarded. We have a bunch of people who don't get it and until they do they have no role in a modern political campaign.

No more hack welfare.

Bob Brigham Blog
by Bob Brigham on Sun Dec 12, 2004 at 07:32:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh, Calm Down (3.00 / 0)

I would like to learn more about the Association of Democratic Chairs, but unfortunately there isn't even a webpage.

But, if you visit http://www.adsc.org you can learn all you need to about the Albuquerque Square Dance Center.

I am willing to let the webpage go, fine.  

However, the grassroots put this party on our backs and carried it for the last two years.  If they weren't so concerned about pouring over their fundraising databases of small donors, they might recognize that it is inclusion, respect, and communication that breed the activism and fundraising that they covet so much.  Switch that, fundraising first -- then activism.  That much is clear.

And I am not even talking about them listening to 1,000,000 individual bloggers -- but people like Jerome and Matt act almost as gatekeepers for the rest of us.  And when they kicked them out, they kicked all of us out.

Inclusion, Respect, and Communication.

Tim

by Tim Tagaris on Sun Dec 12, 2004 at 06:40:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

They aren't going to pore over my database!! (none / 0)

I wrote a database for the Orange County (NC) DP that now has 30K+ phone numbers and 4K+ email addresses and 1.2K+ volunteers, all without the help of the NC DP, which has been a useless organization, as far as local organizating is concerned IMHO.  Our GOTV effort has a ways to go but it was miles ahead of past years.


Your comment about "pouring [sic] over [our] fundraising databases" reinforces my feeling that we will be able to organize locally and have clout at the state and DNC levels only if we control our own data.


ge/Chapel Hill, NC


by zabouti on Sun Dec 12, 2004 at 02:27:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh, Calm Down (3.00 / 0)

Having paid staff is not a blessing.
In Wash State we have a prime example of an Ex. Dir. who is Very well paid and is a prime example of top down management abusing the grass roots, taking tools away from them ( i.e. not allowing Good Democratic PCO's have walking lists for their precincts) But then again since he is a prime example of a rethuglican lite who is more interested in having the grass roots donations help pay of his starter castle in a good MacMansion nieghborhood rather then electing D's what does one expect?
He worked hand in glove the last 8 years while rethuglican lite Gov Locke screwed the teachers, health care workers, environment and state workers all in the name of financial constraints.  In the case of the Health Care workers and teachers he overrode a popularly passed iniatives because of "Budget restraints" but then found $2Billion in corporate welfare to give Boeing over a weekend.
The environment, espiacially water, was placed on the altar of "Economic" development by his personally formed "competitive Council" which never met an envirionmental protection that wasn't too costly or limited property rights.
So don't think paid staff helps. Out here it has only led to the D's losing every major state wide office and the few nominal D's left would be more comfortable in the Bible thumping rethuglicans.
by Rational on Sun Dec 12, 2004 at 12:35:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Paid staff (none / 0)

Paid staff reports to the executive committee of your state party. Don't like it? Get yourself put on the exec committee and change the staff.
by Jenny Greenleaf on Sun Dec 12, 2004 at 05:22:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Paid staff (none / 0)

The state Chair plays fast and loose with the rules to get an executive committe he likes.
Much like Enron's board. This is possible because of the knuckledragging counties on the wrong side of the mountains the local D's would not be recognized as such except by rethuglican lite standards. So with those knuckle draggers in his corner and generous use of the State's budget he is safe for destroying the satate party for another 2 years.
by Rational on Mon Dec 13, 2004 at 07:50:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Jenny Greenleaf, blogger or DNC member? (none / 0)

But I hope, Jenny, that you appreciate the irony in treating bloggers as press, given that you in fact blogged the event.  We presume no one was stupid enough to throw you out of any sessions, since you hold a seat on the DNC, but your blog entry is similar to what Jerome and Matt posted here.  

Bloggers are of many different types, and there are more and more of us.  True, Jerome and Matt are indeed rather press-like bloggers, though the part of the press they resemble is the eentsy weentsy partisan left-wing press that contains Al Franken and about 20 other people.  But consider me.  Apparently these events were open to the general public.  I hope that if I had showed up with my lap top, ready to blog the event for the 23 people who read my blog every day, that I wouldn't have been excluded.

It does seem like something our Democratic organizations need to sort out.

by conchis on Sun Dec 12, 2004 at 07:16:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Jenny Greenleaf, blogger or DNC member? (none / 0)

Of course I appreciate the irony. But as bloggers, we haven't figured out if we're press or not. Sometimes we want to be press (look, I have press credentials!) and sometimes we want to be just plain folks writing our amusing diaries for the edification of our 30 readers (oh, no, I'm not the press!). I'm even more confused: blogger or DNC member. Why not both? What's wrong with having a blogger ON the DNC?

I was pretty careful to blog only parts of the event that were open to the press--as did Matt and Jerome. The folks in the Democratic Party of Oregon are well aware that I blog on The American Street, and I was elected after a very spirited discussion on BlueOregon. I think Oregon's a little ahead of some of the other states in understanding and accepting the medium.

Bloggers were invited and welcome to most of the event. Matt and Jerome attended several sessions that were not open to the press. I don't know why Mark decided to make an exception for the Q&A.  I'm in Sarasota visiting my parents now, but when I get back to Oregon, I intend to call him and ask about it. The least we can do is try to understand what happened so similar mishaps can be prevented.

by Jenny Greenleaf on Sun Dec 12, 2004 at 09:49:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

If you are a kossak (none / 0)

Feel free to recommend over on daily kos, this needs more eyeballs:

Daily Kos: DNC Staff VIOLATES DNC Charter

Bob Brigham Blog
by Bob Brigham on Sat Dec 11, 2004 at 10:55:03 PM EST

Re: If you are a kossak (none / 0)

done.
by Matt Stoller on Sun Dec 12, 2004 at 12:51:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Thoughts (3.00 / 2)

blogswarm's post over at Kos:

This would of course be a direct violation of Article 9, Sect. 12 of the DNC Charter (pdf) which mandates that:

All meetings of the Democratic National Committee, the Executive Committee, and all other official Party committees, commissions and bodies shall be open to the public, and votes shall not be taken by secret ballot.

Of course, Article 10, Sect. 3 of the Charter requires this to apply to all Democratic Party bodies.

Please post your ideas for extracting accountability in the comments. Please post contact information including email addresses and direct extensions in the comments. Please recommend and please stand up for Armstrong, Stoller and Trippi.

I would bet some amount of money that ol' Warm has never been to a DNC meeting, or s/he would know there's a massive difference between a DNC meeting and a meeting of the Association of State Chairs.  Competely different bylaws and intent of the meetings.

I understand you guys really want to help, but it doesn't help your credibility with established members of the Democratic Party when you say things like:

The frustrating thing for me is, I have no idea who my DNC representative is. Do I have one? Is s/he accountable to anybody? How did s/he get such a position? How can I get ahold of her?

Just like the federal government, the national parties are too far removed from the people they're supposed to represent, and they're far too susceptible to corruption.

You know what?  If you think you can do a better job, get in there and try.  I'm completely serious.  But I don't think you exhibit that you know much about this topic at all when you can't do a simple Google search for DNC members - and that's only if your own state's Party is too weak to have those folks listed on its website.

I think the discussion on this blog is above and beyond what's happening lots of other places, which is why I'm bothering to post this (usually conversations on blogs can devolve into pointless flamewars fairly quickly).  But I think you need to know what you're up against if you're going to help build state party grassroots.

1.) You're absolutely right when you say states need to raise money to be competitive.  Most state parties are so cash-strapped they can't hire many people, and the folks they can afford to hire are young people without much experience.

So, you wind up spending all your time raising money, which gets you nothing but criticism from folks out in your communities, who don't see the big picture and think you're a bunch of sellouts.

2.) The people you're relying on to do most of your work are unpaid volunteers.  That's right.  People who have jobs and lives and other things to think about, and who do this work out of the goodness of their hearts.  Now, these people are treated like crap by the Party insiders who take all the goodies for themselves (anything like acclamation or credit will go to the people who like to take credit, but not do the work, and there are tons of these people at every level of the Party in every state of the Union.)

You're going to have to do things like organize local Republican business boycotts and letter drives to newspapers.   Since that work isn't very glamorous, a lot of people don't want to do it - but it badly needs doing, and would provide an opportunity for someone who did want to do it to create lasting change.

Honestly, I have no idea what the national Party can do to help, given that they don't show much interest at all in what the rank and file is up to, and they only really interact with the top handful of people in each state (people who, in many cases, work harder at self-promotion than they do at Party promotion).  They really need to spend more time out in the states, and maybe they'd learn what to do to appeal to people out here.

people didn't give money because they'd already given to the DNC. The states got no share of the money nor any accounting as to how it was spent. The DNC raised $192 MILLION out of California. Know how much they got back to help with local races? $0.

 I've been told that the DNC used to give the states money and stopped several years ago. Power has ended up in Washington and in the hands of a cadre of consultants

This is the best thing I've read on a blog lately.  I'm in a Southern state that could have won if the campaign had spent any money here at all, and if it weren't so busy emptying the pockets of our local folks so we couldn't raise money here - on top of the fact that they wouldn't send us so much as a yard sign.

It drives me crazy how everyone is going bananas blaming the South for Kerry's failure, when - my God - they did NOTHING in the vast majority of the region.

by Eleanor A on Sat Dec 11, 2004 at 11:36:56 PM EST

re-read the diary (none / 0)

Article 10, Sect. 3 of the Charter requires this to apply to all Democratic Party bodies.

So don't say, "there's a massive difference between a DNC meeting and a meeting of the Association of State Chairs."

Yes, there is, but the Charter applies to all of them.

Bob Brigham Blog
by Bob Brigham on Sat Dec 11, 2004 at 11:42:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thoughts (none / 0)

I live in Kentucky where blue counties are gradually fading away because there is a growing number of conservative Democrats.  I did everything I could in the campaigns.
The Kentucky Democrat
by kydem on Sat Dec 11, 2004 at 11:49:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You know how funny this sounds? (3.00 / 0)

"I understand you guys really want to help, but it doesn't help your credibility with established members of the Democratic Party when you say things like:

The frustrating thing for me is, I have no idea who my DNC representative is. Do I have one? Is s/he accountable to anybody? How did s/he get such a position? How can I get ahold of her? Just like the federal government, the national parties are too far removed from the people they're supposed to represent, and they're far too susceptible to corruption.

"You know what?  If you think you can do a better job, get in there and try."

A better job?! A better job, better than losing control of the House, Senate, Presidency, etc., etc.?

My Lord, that's the whole point!

Regarding the party in my state - you're exactly right, the officers are hard to identify, the website sucks, there's crummy organization (what little there is rose from Dean's campaign) and the party loses, loses, loses.

I don't give 2 shits about my "credibility" with the party establishment. They've "established" themselves most firmly as losers, and unless you want one party control of the USA for the forseeable future, the party needs a housecleaning.

Yes, the party IS too far removed from the people it's supposed to represent. The party leaders don't know how to organize, they don't know how to raise their visibility, they don't know how to reach out to potential activists - and they don't know how to win.

by Toadvine on Sun Dec 12, 2004 at 01:15:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thoughts (none / 0)

I am an expert google searcher and an avid internet user, and i am a little annoyed at your comment:

"...But I don't think you exhibit that you know much about this topic at all when you can't do a simple Google search for DNC members - and that's only if your own state's Party is too weak to have those folks listed on its website..."

It took me a considerable amount of time to find the list, and actually my source ended up being daily kos.

I just think its rude for you to assume that people "don't know much" just because the information they seek isn't easily available.

by phemfrog on Mon Dec 13, 2004 at 02:41:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

One more thing (none / 0)

Meanwhile Bush was out here visiting "safe" Southern states (safe for him, I mean) seven and eight times.  They outorganized us, plain and simple.
by Eleanor A on Sat Dec 11, 2004 at 11:40:29 PM EST

Re: One more thing (none / 0)

It's not just organizing.  It's showing appreciation for your base.
by DreamOfPeace on Sun Dec 12, 2004 at 09:20:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Focus on solutions... (3.00 / 1)

I really want to see bloggers at the table, so instead of slinging mud at each other, why don't we see what we can do about it?

Matt and Jerome, what is it that you want? What limitations are you willing to accept? Are you planning to come to the ASDC regional meetings? We'll probably have quite a different set of candidates by then. Do you plan to attend the February meeting of the DNC in DC?

If so, let's work to make sure you can come. As a DNC member of one week, I don't really have much pull, but I'm willing to try to smooth things out.

by Jenny Greenleaf on Sat Dec 11, 2004 at 11:46:30 PM EST

Re: Focus on solutions... (none / 0)

Ok, I'd like to see a Vice Chair for the Internet, appointed by the DNC Chair.  The Vice Chair would have to have two years of experience blogging on their own site, and would commit to blogging about the DNC and the party.

And I'd like to see technology training so that these people know that we're trying to HELP them.

I won't be at the regional meetings, but I will go to the DNC in Feb if I can.

by Matt Stoller on Sun Dec 12, 2004 at 12:37:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Focus on solutions... (none / 0)

I'll be the first to nominate Matt Stoller!
The Kentucky Democrat
by kydem on Sun Dec 12, 2004 at 12:38:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Focus on solutions... (3.00 / 2)

OK. Remember we're trying to turn a barge here. It takes time and patience.  To create a new vice-chairship would take a resolution of the Rule Committee. I think the Chair has power to appoint Deputy Chairs--that might be one way to do it. In that case, you might consider advocating for Dean, Rosenberg, or one of the other more net-savvy folks.

In the technology business world, where I spent my career, when we invited people to meetings we sometimes had them sign nondisclosure agreements. Maybe we need to offer to do something similar here.

by Jenny Greenleaf on Sun Dec 12, 2004 at 01:13:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Focus on solutions... (none / 0)

NDA's are a reasonable idea.
by Matt Stoller on Sun Dec 12, 2004 at 09:55:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Focus on solutions... (none / 0)

Why not do more than just "blog." (Indeed, not sure what that means, "two years' experience blogging.")

A DNC staff person (Vice-Chairs are part-time and rarely in the office) to oversee internet activities would have to direct a variety of fuctions

>internet-based, real-time organizing
>on-line communications (ie, rapid response).
>on-line fundraising
>interactive, asynchronous, collaborative community (ie, a Scoop-based "blog" and discussion board)
>building a state and local internet infrastructure that can bring each of these tasks to state and county parties

by desmoulins on Sun Dec 12, 2004 at 01:44:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Focus on solutions... (3.00 / 1)

I'm new here; actually, I'm new to the blogosphere. However, there is one thing that is already quite clear to me. It is that there are many powerful Democratic leaning blog sites and memberships out there that are presently lost at sea (not to mention incredibly frustrated) and which could benefit enormously from a little direction from the right kind of proactive DNC. Remember the old cliche: "If you don't use it, you lose it."

It just seems to me that one of the most expeditious and efficacious ways to expand the "real power base" of the Democratic Party might be through the further cultivation of the greater internet ethereal. Actually, we need a whole section or department at the DNC whose primary role and function should be exactly this. At the same time, we surely need more national to state party coordination efforts that occur on a highly active, year-round, day to day basis. Then, perhaps, the DNC could put the activist blogs in close contact and communication with state and local party organizations. All of that could be followed up with joint projects. You know, it just seems to me that might be a good way to get things done more effectively from ground up and to keep the party base highly inspired and motivated from one election cycle to the next election cycle.

In any case, the internet has proven to be a wonderful political resource (and not just for monetary contributions) during this past election cycle; and we must primarily thank Dean and his wise lieutenants for apprising Kerry and the DNC (actually, waking them up from a deep sleep) of that propitious fact of present-day, political reality.

However, it seems to me that instead of heartily thanking and welcoming them with open arms, the powers-that-be at the current DNC are now attempting to disinclude them in a most undignified manner. What's up with that? Really, you couldn't make this stuff up.

Friends, let's put a swift end to the current power plays at the DNC before they create even greater divisions that currently exist within the body politic right now. After all, isn't the Democratic Party supposed to be "the party of inclusion?"      

by Major Tom on Sun Dec 12, 2004 at 07:55:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Focus on solutions... (none / 0)

isn't the Democratic Party supposed to be "the party of inclusion?"  

Not only that, but these are supposed to be politicians....with skills...political skills.

Now they've pissed off the hive mind.  

by DreamOfPeace on Sun Dec 12, 2004 at 09:25:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Focus on solutions... (none / 0)

I'm don't know if I'll be attending the regional meetings, but I'll be sure to publicize them so that others will show up, and hopefully push the meetings to be opened up; I'm sure we're on the same team there.  

You said, the DNC treated people in the states like ATMs, and I think that's only one side of the story here; because what I heard a lot of talk about, was about the states turning that around, and treating the DNC like an ATM, and frankly, I don't think that's the solution. And it does fit together with the complaint I made, because you heard how Mark Brewer relished throwing out the bloggers, while letting any ol Jack into the room that last Q & A. And that showed a basic misunderstanding of fools who think they got the golden eggs, and have no clue as to how the goose gets into laying them. I'll followup with more about the Q & A and these issues as this proceeds.

by Jerome Armstrong on Sun Dec 12, 2004 at 12:46:08 AM EST
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