Please, No More Gimmick Strategies

There is a lot of great writing going on in the diaries right now, and everyone should check them out. However, one disturbing trend I have noticed on this blog over the past two days has been a tendency to revert to the "gimmick" strategies and crude political speculations that were rampant during the primary season and the VP selection process. Specifically, I am referring to those who look at candidates only in their supposed ability to pick off one or two states, improve our standing in one or two demographic groups, or who have some sort of biography that would result in less mud being slung at them by the GOP. When mapping out plans for future elections, especially Presidential elections, such strategies are beyond worthless since they serve as little more than temporary bandages and smokescreens while ignoring long-term problems. They are also naïve to assume that we will ever put up a candidate who will not be mercilessly attacked by the Right Wing Noise Machine. We can only ever solve that problem by creating an equally powerful Left Wing Noise Machine.

To put it as politely as I can, discussions about criteria for future candidates are forms of the "electability" argument at its most reductive and idiotic. In this election cycle, in one important area, we employed a far more effective strategy that we must continue to pursue and expand into other areas. Specifically, going into this election, one of the major problems that we faced was that the partisan makeup of the swing states favored Republicans. In response to this problem, instead of simply looking for a candidate who can to flip one or two key states based on geography, and instead of looking for a candidate who can improve our standing among one or two demographic groups based on background or charisma, we attempted to more or less permanently shift entire regions and demographic groups toward our party and ideology. Thank the Maker we actually did this, because beforehand we were rapidly losing the battleground and on the brink of total collapse.

For forty years, the partisan composition of the swing states had favored Republicans. After 2000, this problem was especially severe, as states worth 307 electoral votes had a pro-RNC partisan index. To rectify this, rather than just nominating someone from a red state, we attacked twenty-two states with a plan to register new voters and maintain regular contact with millions of "unlikely" voters. The aim behind this plan was not to win one election based upon the unique characteristics embodied entirely within a single candidate. This time around, the aim was to change the electorate itself--to structurally alter the partisan composition of the electorate in the battleground states and make it more favorable to Democratic candidates. Quite frankly, this strategy worked in most places we tried it. In CO, IA, ME, MI, MN, NV, NH, NM, NC, OH, OR, PA VA, WA and WI we managed to tilt the playing field in a more positive direction for Democrats. Of the states that we targeted, only in AZ, AR, FL, LA, MO, TN and WV did we suffer setbacks. Basically, we gained everywhere outside of the South, where admittedly we were crushed. Now, as I wrote earlier today, states worth only 239 electoral votes have a pro-RNC partisan index.

We are not going to win elections by doing a better job of screening major candidates based on a laundry list of geographic, ideological and personality criteria. The party's national fortunes will only continue to decline if we simply look at elections as a jigsaw puzzle where we try to match a candidate's statistics with national demographics. We need long-term solutions for the entire party that addresses long-term problems for the entire party, not just a candidate whose E-Harmony personality profile produces a good match with the nation as a whole. We are only going to win by continuing to our heavily activist-based registration and voter contact efforts, and coupling it with a far superior use of linguistic and political frames that will allow us to halt and immediately reverse our national slide in ideological and partisan self-identification.

Our success in the battleground was a good start, but we have a long way to go. The country is composed of much more than 22 states, and nationally we are still witnessing the electorate slide toward reactionary and theocratic ideologies. Considering this, if, two years from now, when the next round of Presidential candidates slowly comes into focus, we are still spewing crap like "well, she's a moderate Governor from a slightly red state, so I think she has a better chance than the mildly liberal Senator from the lean blue state" I may start believing that we are in fact doomed. Those who see our problems as embodied entirely within the biographies and demographic profiles of our Presidential nominee not only fail to grasp the scope of our decline, but may in fact contribute to our decline. We are in the grips of a major crisis here, and simply nominating someone who is "strong on defense" or "who can compete in the South" will do nothing to alleviate the severity of this crisis. If we want to win, we need to structurally alter the electorate and its ideological framework, not try and fool it with a gimmicky candidate biography and selective issue positions. The only way to become more electable is to shift the electorate in our direction. Please, no more gimmick strategies.



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hear hear... (none / 0)

If I may add a cent here,

The "Values based" coilition on the left has crystallized into a fairly cohesive and stable...easily defendable electorate.

What the situation demands is an honest coming together of the big tent, in a way that might inspire people to join the left. That's how elections are ultimately won, by the country LEAVING the (christian) right and JOINING the secular left.

elections are not won by the secular left BECOMING the christian right...or pandering to it in some way.

by skatch on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 06:52:18 PM EST

Not so fast. (none / 0)

According to a Richard Ostling article, Kerry had the support of 62% of the people who never attend religious services, but that is only 14% of the electorate.

It's only in recent years that Sunday morning has become the exclusive property of the right wing.  When you look back to the 60's churches were smack in the middle of the peace and civil rights movements.  Remember Martin Luther King?  That's the Reverend Martin Luther King!

Rather then try and persuade the other 86% of the country to become "secular", doesn't it make a lot more sense to learn how to recognize that a great many left wing values really are consistent with religious values.  Poverty, health care, peace,and justice are all perfectly valid religious values.  We have just made a mistake in letting the right wing claim that they are on the side of the Almighty because of one or two narrow issues that don't happen to get in the way of things like corporate greed.

In other words, don't tell the other 86% to abandon God.  Tell the other 86% that God really is on our side (or we're on God's side).

by Tod on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 07:50:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not so fast. (none / 0)

I don't think that we should be telling people that God is our side (because it sounds stupid and contrived.)  (Er, I mean no disrespect to you, of course.)  I don't think that we should be turning people off to God or religion, because those things work for people.

Instead, we have to let people seperate this notion that religious concerns are the same as governmental and political concerns.  In other words, separate religion from politics as best as we can.

We can point out how atheists and non-religious people have their own morals and/or ethics.  We can talk about universal morality and how it binds our diverse culture together.

Ultimately, we must teach people what it means to be a liberal.  I think that there are several strategies.  I really, really want to see advertising purchased.  I want to see an active campaign to teach people what liberalism is.  By starting a dialog, we will see it continued on talk shows and cable news.  If you have any interest in helping to start such an organization, e-mail me.  I have some ideas, but I have no idea how to disperse them, fund them, or anything else.

by nanoboy on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 07:58:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not so fast. (none / 0)

IMO, We are NOT talking about people that have EVER been to church. we are talking about people that feel disturbed that John ashcroft and Pat Robertson wield influence over their neighborhoods(wether or not they go to church).

Secularism is NOT denial of people's religiosity. it is the recognition that verifiable science and faith belong in seperate compartments. Today, my feeling is that we have quite a number of this kind of secular people voting with the christians, because we have not BEEN THERE for them.

and my point is, we cannot be there for them by suddenly making the democratic party mouth platitudes about christianity(any more than we can appeal to gun owners by the same means) , we can do it by tackling the basic issue, which is the maintanace of a line in the sand between faith and verifiable science.

by skatch on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 08:17:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not so fast. (none / 0)

Agreed you don't get more left wing than Dorathy Day or MLK Jr.  Some of these posts about religion very much disturb me.  One of this parties biggest liabilities is it's label as morally relativistic, or totally amoral.  Look people's moral beliefs will and in many ways SHOULD be part of their politics.  Indeed, what should you try harder to change in the world, whether or not we live in a just world or how much we get taxed when I go buy some new jeans.  While I agree we live in a classically liberal society and people's ability to influence others must be curtailed we must first realize that morals ARE important to politics, then that our party does indeed make real moral claims that are indeed not inconsitant with most people's beliefs and finally let them know this.  Finally we need to reign in the more extreme elements of our party.  Obviously everyone must have a say but when soccer moms in Ohio think democrat and then think NARAL we're fighing an uphill battle.
by Gonzaga2000 on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 08:48:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not so fast. (none / 0)

As a confirmed atheist, I nonetheless have to agree with the basic premise of this post.  I know many semi-religious and devoutly religious people who are completely committed to progressive/liberal politics.  I'd like to see us promote that constituency more.  So not so much an explicit "God is on our side" approach but more of implicit "You don't own God" approach.  
by cthulhu on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 09:32:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not so fast. (none / 0)

I want to add my observation from Ohio.  I just now got out the healthclub defending this very argument.  In Ohio 62% of the electorate voted for issue 1, -- a broadly drafted ammendment measure against same sex marriage, co-habiting heterosexual (staright) unmarried couples etc.
However, President Bush got only 51% in this state.  

We could argue then, at least 11% out of that 62% - a net 16% of those who voted president Bush came from our 49%, ie.  11/49 = 22%, of our democrats were for measure 1.   That is, 22% of the democrats therefore do go to church, on a daily basis.  

Darn it, our candidate was very well versed Bible, that he gave sermons without looking at Bible.  Whereas the P could not even answer his own name without somebody helping him.
Incidentally, he changed his three times, moving from one denomination to another.

All these statistics dont mean a thing. We can always put it to spin in any direction.

What we need is, a few good grass root christians to take leadership roles in Churches, and start developing solid network of empathy based fellowship.  Religious right did not get there over one year.  They did that over many years of service. Unarguably they are screwing the poor and ignorant now. But, somewhen in the past they did gain the trust of those poor and ignorant.

I believe the 22% of the  democarts have their work cur out. Any takers?

by guna on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 10:02:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not so fast. (none / 0)

IMO, pandering to the constituencies republicans have built up( anti gay marriage groups, anti gun control groups, anti abortion groups, Christian right(as opposed to churchgoers) ) is a surefire recipe for disaster.

On the other hand I am NOT against having a democrat prescence in churches where christians who identify with democratic / progressive/ liberal causes can be both christian and democrat.

The point to this however is for people to come to liberal causes, not for the church goers to somehow proselytize the other 49% (or our candidates. We'll just end up falling into the daschle trap, where they'll (the repugs) get you with a wedge issue and a few million dollars.

by skatch on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 11:05:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not so fast. (none / 0)

A good place to start is the United Church of Christ.  It is a pretty liberal nationwide protestant church.  I believe there is a liberal protestant group out there made up of churches who don't descriminate against gays, or other religions etc.
by yitbos96bb on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 12:48:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not so fast. (none / 0)

There are innumerable churches who support basic Democratic ideals and abhor those of the religious right.  But their leaders tend to be rather shy about voicing political opinions and especially about telling their members how to vote.  I have no problem with using the pulpit of these churchers to motivate their congregations, if we can find a way to do it without turning them off to politics altogether.  And as long as we don't turn off the secular base while we're doing it.

The strength of the GOP this time around was not the religious right, but a coaltion between the religious right and more traditional Republicans.  There's plenty to suggest that that coaltion will not hold.  We need to watch the GOP not just for pointers on how to gain power, but for the mistakes they've made along the way.

by alienated on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 07:46:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

"Our position" (none / 0)

I think what we must do, before we start tossing names around, is clarify our positions and begin honing them to simple, elegant messages that will translate among a voting populace that seems reluctant to inform itself.

I agree we've made great gains in the electorate, in registering voters, and in making activism cool again.  But for all that, we'll be doomed if our messages remain too complex or too nuanced.  This does not, of course, indicate that our policies or our positions should not be.  Nuance and complexity go hand and hand with nuance.  Message does not.

by beloit08 on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 06:55:59 PM EST

Yes, but... (none / 0)

My question would be HOW do you "structurally alter the electorate and its ideological framework"?  
by IR on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 07:13:32 PM EST

Re: Yes, but... (none / 0)

And a very good question it is.
by Chris Bowers on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 08:07:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yes, but... (none / 0)

Call me niave and optimistic but more of what we started.  More open source, grassroots politics.  Look at the Dean campaign (yes I am a Dianiac) but he did a very good job of getting people invested in the campiagn just not supporting.  That is how you change political beliefs.
by Gonzaga2000 on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 09:00:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

no more gimmicks (none / 0)

I wholeheartedly agree. Democrats simply need an intelligent and fearless candidate who is clearly motivated by altruism. Someone who posesses a discernible personality would be a plus, too.
No more cowardly hair-splitting, either. If a newsperson asks the candidate, "are you a liberal?" and if that candidate is, indeed, a liberal, then "yes" would be a good answer. In fact, I was impressed when Wesley Clark, early on, was asked that question by Bill Maher. His answer was succinct, unhesitating, and supplied a context. "Of course I'm a liberal," the General said, "America is a liberal democracy."
by fredwickham on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 07:25:44 PM EST

Re: no more gimmicks (none / 0)

A "straight up" kinda candidate has appeal.  

E.g.: Do you support abortion?
  "I trust you to face your God with that decision."

Or something more clever and sufficiently evasive yet powerful.

by kfractal on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 12:04:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

But isn't this what Kerry said? (none / 0)

His answers to abortion questions basically boiled down to this.

However, the majority of the population is, to some degree at least, pro-choice-so abortion isn't why Kerry lost, at least not entirely.

by Geotpf on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 03:49:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: no more gimmicks (none / 0)

I fear the word 'liberal' has so much baggage now that it is part of the problem.

What about superseding the word 'liberal' with the word 'progressive', which seems to me to have more positive connotations?

Or are the words sufficiently different as to not be interchangeable?

by toddfrmtx on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 04:06:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

readiness (none / 0)

The country also has to want to change.  Clearly it did not in 2004.  The bigotry and triumphalism still feel too good.
by hawkseye on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 07:27:21 PM EST

Re: readiness (none / 0)

I agree.  As long as the "who Cares if the rest of the world like us" crowd fails to see the big picture, there will be some disaster.  Our primary goal should ALWAYS be to win an unbeatable majortiy in congress and win the presidency.  A nice secondary goal is work to maintain our current seats and then to take a few back.  We need to stop the blood loss and then start to rebuild.  Even if we don't gain any seats we need to avoid losing any.
by yitbos96bb on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 12:53:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

A Fundamental Change Must Happen Now (none / 0)

I haven't always been a far to the left liberal, but this election has drop-kicked me into that arena. Let me briefly explain why I'm excited by some of the conversation I've seen on this site today.

  1. I always used to try to see both sides of the issue and then come to a conclusion. That's still a good idea, but I now realize I have given the Republican party too much respect. They aren't the same party and haven't been for many years.

  2. I never saw the world as being secularist or non-secularist. One day of phone banking for John Kerry opened up my eyes to what is really taking place out there.

  3. This election proves that no matter how intellectual, how thoughtful, how poignently you illustrate your point, IMAGE COUNTS.

Our image on the left is that we are "out of touch" with mainstream America. But what is mainstream America, apart from a catchphrase?

I read with great interest Chris' post earlier regarding redefining the Democratic party. I maintain (and the green in my name is because I love the environment, not necessarily the entire Green party) that the party must become much, much, much more vocal regarding it's positive traits. Sadly, we must also take the less dignified road and stridently notify our country that the Republican party is no longer conservative.

Conservatism as a philosphy is not actually that despicable. I argue it can be a sometimes valid financial and governmental fiscal viewpoint, and that is the way the Democratic party has opposed it. They say they want less taxes and smaller government, we remind people that a social net is necessary. We're a little warm and fuzzy on how we'll pay for it, maybe take some money from the richest 1 or 2 percent.

HOW DARE WE. It's now time liberals stand up and say, "Yeah. We're liberal and DAMN PROUD of it. That means we want to maintain LIBERTY, choice, civil rights, the bill of rights, peace rather than war, health rather than profit, security as opposed to fear-mongering."

WE ARE THE PARTY OF PERSONAL FREEDOMS. That is what America is about. Sure, your religion is fine. Just don't legislate it at the point of a gun. That's what the Republicans have done.

THEY ARE THE RADICALS. The Republicans, apart from a hold out or two, are not "conservative". They're Religious Extremists. They're the Radical Right Wing. Go ahead and call them what they are. I think Neo-Con and Wingers and Repuglicans, while fanciful, are simply labels without meaning. No, we need to redefine our opponents on their own terms.

Let's simplify.
The Radical Right opposes the Bill of Rights.
The Radical Right opposes civil rights.
The Radical Right embrace warfare and bloodshed.
The Radical Right encourages unilateralism.
The Radical Right is profoundly arrogant.

Find me Democratic leadership who can express those views convincingly, we've got ourselves a more unified front.

One last thought; some people will say we need to encourage dialogue with the right. I say, bull. I don't know how many times I've been shut down by the Radical Right, the Religious Extremists for encouraging gay rights, protecting the environment, etc. We don't need to become the party of the "middle". There'd be no distinction. We need to be the party that says, "Your religious views are fine, but you're not enforcing them at gun point."

I encourage Democrats to start talking with the Nader and Green crowd, the secularist Republicans, the independents, the people who are feeling shut out by the Radical Right's agenda of repression and warfare. Tell me what you think.

If I sound angry in this post, I am. John Kerry is a gentleman, a good fighter, and a solid leader. Our new leadership will need to be vocal, energized, and angry. The gloves need to come the fuck off.

by Green Irishboy on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 07:29:27 PM EST

Re: A Fundamental Change Must Happen Now (none / 0)

I want to add that when I say "don't talk to the right" and then "talk to the secularist Republicans", they are not the right. They are the middle. These are people who like some of our ideas, perhaps our social views, but don't entirely agree with all of our planks.

Simply put, I don't think these working class people are aware that the Radical Right actually hate the working class. They hate personal freedoms. Voice a differing opinion, you're labeled a "traitor". Your ideas are called "treason". Any party that encourages pundits like Ann Coulter, criminals like Dick Cheney, and religious zealots like John Ashcroft and George Bush, IS NOT A PARTY FOR THE WORKING CLASS.

by Green Irishboy on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 07:35:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Fundamental Change Must Happen Now (none / 0)

Well said, Green Irishboy.  I would add more, there are some in the current Republican makeup that dont share the same view of the radical right. They too believe that their party has been hijacked by the radical right, with whom they dont share a feather in common. What we need is a framing of their party as is -- in a manner that highlight an unstable alliance.  One day, this far right would lead astray the fiscal conservatives and conseravtive seculars.  

Where I come from there is a saying, -- a king does not need an enemy when he is surrounded by yesmen.  That is right, a man who neither listens, nor has anyone whom he confide in for a devils advocate, is like a horse with blinder on.   This righteous attitude without restraints will, as night prceeds dawn, would lead the ignorant in self destruction.  When a sufficient momentum (meltdown) is reached the crack will be manifest.

My point is that the unholy alliance is not forever. The natural principles of cause and effect will ultimately show them their demise. The qusestion is how to accelerate it, or intervene and stop it.

Education is one way. Clear documentation of history, loud and effective literacy campaign - is another. Or the straight and seductive enrollment is another. We need to work at these.  I see your challenge for a leader who emphasized the difference, -- will drive the wedge, in what I anticipate a break.

I have one, -- suppose a investigative journalist starts documenting where the chruches investing their money, and show that some are related to companies that in the so called skin business.  Do you think they will pull out.  Suppose we keep shouting at Bill O'rilley's sexapades, do you think they will care.  In your logic I see a glimpse of hope that they would.  If they did then you start educating one subgroup vs the other.  This does not mean I want to regulate the skin business, -- as a liberal I would not even come close to banning anything. But, the suggestion is make it hard for the rich republicans to continue to make more money by breaking the christian rules that they pretend is as important as their radical right expects them to.

   

by guna on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 10:29:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Fundamental Change Must Happen Now (none / 0)

I like this line of thinking. Aggressively targeting fundamentalist hypocrisy is a good idea.

The basic way I see it is that we don't really need to "go to them", so to speak. We don't need to embrace conservative values. We need to question the Radical Right.

Not only do we need to question, to need to attack. Highlighting the hypocrisy you mentioned is one method; someone else suggested that we move from just being red and blue states and acknowledging red and blue businesses. The anti-choice Evangelicals target construction firms by saying they can't build churches for them if they build abortion clinics. I say, I won't eat at a restaurant I know funnels money into the right wing.

This is bigger than the Sinclair boycott, bigger than voter fraud and misinformation from Fox. This is about confronting the right not by lowering ourselves to their standards (spreading lies), but by exposing them for what they are and by educating the American public.

Thanks guna!

by Green Irishboy on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 11:33:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Fundamental Change Must Happen Now (none / 0)

We don't need to embrace conservative values. We need to question the Radical Right.

I'd argue a winning strategy would be to become more inclusive of the social right.  There are many people who are evangelical socially and yet are economically, environmentally liberal.  And yet the Republicans smoke screen operation for their economic right agenda goes on unabated.  

If we were to just give up a bit socially we could driver harder to the left economically and environmentally because we'd actually be winning elections by healthy margins.  The tide of time will bring social issues left... to the "heartland" by pure diversity alone.  No need to win it all at once... no need to give it up, but please, pick your fights.

This is fun stuff...

by kfractal on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 12:11:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Fundamental Change Must Happen Now (none / 0)

I've been saying this elsewhere, but I'll add to this. First, thanks for reading my post and responding. I understand what you're trying to suggest.

Social compromise is not the way to go. I agree that abortion rights and gay rights hurt us with a large portion of the American population. Even when John Kerry said, very articulately, that he doesn't personally support gay marriage or abortion, he wasn't really heard. Heck, in the last week of the election Bush suddenly remembered he supports civil unions! Think he'll actually move on that? Riiiiiggght.

No, we don't compromise on social issues. Why? We are the party of Freedom. They are the party of Repression. We are uniters, they are dividers. We have American values, they promote hatred and bigotry. I know these are oversimplifications of our views but it is time to simplify.

The Greens (again, I am not a Green) have appealed to some by saying that "the Dems and Republicans are the same party", and they point to corporate interests. If we become more like them, then the Greens will actually be right! Then we begin to alienate our core instead of building on our gains.

by Green Irishboy on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 12:39:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Fundamental Change Must Happen Now (none / 0)

Thanks for the comments...

No, we don't compromise on social issues.
Yet, compromise is the essence of creating amicable, democratic consensus.  

The Greens (again, I am not a Green) have appealed to some by saying that "the Dems and Republicans are the same party", and they point to corporate interests. If we become more like them, then the Greens will actually be right!

We don't have to become the Republican party.  Far from it... we couple tolerance with just a smidgen of compromise socially... and drive even harder left economically.  This is a populist position.  

This scenario scares the bejeezus out of the monied Republicans... they care about economic freedom and are willing to concede on social issues to get it.  Even now though elements of the Republican party are concerned that they've ridden the social conservative beast a little too long... and they're starting to lose the reins.

This is the perfect time to develope a meaningful concensus on social issues.  Leave the Republicans with the social fundamentalists (we don't want them) to poison their message... and then by sliding ever slightly to the right socially poach their majority... and at the same time again, drive the populist economic agenda.

Sorry for the rambling, I had been working on a coherent stance on this but it is coming out fast and furious :)

Or something like that.

by kfractal on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 01:04:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

One small change (none / 0)

I encourage Democrats to start talking with the Nader and Green crowd, the secularist Republicans, the independents, the people who are feeling shut out by the Radical Right's agenda of repression and warfare.

Don't start talking with them. Start talking to them. Tell them this train's leaving the station right now, but they're welcome to hop on board anytime they get up the guts to stand up for what they, and we, believe.

I say enough goddamn debate. I know what I want. You know what you want. A whole lot more of us know what we want, and it's the same thing. Now where are our leaders?

by rusty on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 12:45:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Fundamental Change Must Happen Now (none / 0)

I couldn't agree more. Some thoughts: I've watched and listened for the last 4 years as the republicans accuse the democrats of every foul thing they can think up, when they are the perpetrators of the most foul (Consider GWB as governor and his reckless use of capital punishment, and of course, everything else sick we know about him and his cronies) and uncivilized behaviour.

This administration and their followers have a sociopathic ability to project their own insanity on the Reasonable, the voice of reality, the voice of peace, the voice of a decent civilized society -- in other words, the rest of us.

Case in point: I'm outside of Seattle and throughout this campaign I watched Patty Murray (D--now our senior senator) fight back dirty smear adds from her opponent George Nethercutt--who the Repubs actually relocated to run against her.

He ran a negative add showing her in a grade school classroom explaining why Osama Bin Laden was liked in his own country, i.e., he built them schools, etc. Anyway, Nethercutt ran an add accusing her of being "naive", "weak", and condoning Bin Laden(!) I mean it was ridiculous. But--Murray shot back immediately. Her campaign fought back sometimes within hours it seemed, running ads with her looking straight into the camera and seriously denouncing Nethercutt's portrayal of her with a "let me set the record straight" message.

Point: She defined herself by doing this. She didn't back down, but more importantly, she didn't ignore the smear campaign or let them get away with defining her. She won by a good margin. (she voted against the Iraq War, too, btw)

For comparison, we lost the race to seat a moderate dem (a well known talk radio show host --Dave Ross) in Congress because his opponent ran a smear ad (same ridiculousness, a sort of holocaust scene with A-bomb landscape) in the final week. Ross' campaign ignored it. Amazingly, it did the intended damage.  

What I'm trying to get at is twofold: we need to define ourselves -- what does liberal, progressive, democrat stand for? We know what it stands for, but we have to articulate it in a simple straightforward, but powerful manner, so the right-wing doesn't get away with defining us--and using their vileness against us. Then we have to fight the right wing media outlets and pundits and politicians. We have to command and demand respect. We need to "set the record straight" for our values.  

I also wish I would have thought to remind the christian right people of the Beatitudes. Blessed are the poor, etc.

Anyway, I know one thing. A civilized society takes care of each other, the land, the resources, and is conservative and moral and all that. That's what we are.  

We need to boycott the corporate media somehow. I truly believe that they have failed us miserably. The only thing corporations understand is the bottom line. If we don't watch them or listen to them, that's 48% of their audience after all....

by cpwicks on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 12:49:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Johnson (none / 0)

JFK picked Johnson as a gimmick to get the Texas EVs and it worked and earned him the presidency. We shouldn't rule out anything that might help, gimmick or otherwise.
by edgeplot on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 07:39:17 PM EST

Re: Johnson (none / 0)

The conventional wisdom is that we should use any means necessary. I understand where you're coming from, but I think it needs to be said that just looking for another Clinton won't work. After all, Gore was a strong Democratic southern candidate too. I don't think Bob Graham from Florida would have necessarily delivered Florida.

What we're debating, and I think it is a tremendously important discussion, is whether we need to evaluate not only our core values, but our perceived core values. In other words, does what we stand for matter with the American voter? I think it does. But we are suffering from a major PR problem.

It doesn't work to just say, "he's wrong, we're right." You have to show, on a massive scale why these Evangelical Radicals are a danger to our country. At the same time, we need to emphasize that we stand for liberty. We actually stand for what America is supposed to stand for; democracy, not theocracy.

by Green Irishboy on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 11:38:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Johnson (none / 0)

Gore WAS NOT a strong Southern candidate in 2000.  He was a strong Washington insider.  Maybe in 1992 that label would have worked but not after having been in washington for 23 years (he was elected in 1976 to congress).  This is one of the reasons Daschle lost....his washington home became a big issue in the campaign as stupid as that is...the same thing happens in the south.  
by yitbos96bb on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 02:00:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Johnson (none / 0)

I may have misspoke regarding Gore being a "strong southern candidate". However, speaking as a candidate alone, he did do well. He won the popular vote.

Unfortunately, our system is still the electoral college and that has to be taken into consideration. Either way, I still contend that our primary issue is image, not geography. I don't honestly believe we'll ever fully win over the evangelical right and shouldn't try. I'm not saying give up on those who are religious; I'm saying don't cater to the right by dropping our values, as some have urged us to do here. If we become more centrist, what distinguishes us?

Ah well, enough of that, you get the picture...

by Green Irishboy on Sat Nov 06, 2004 at 08:27:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Johnson (none / 0)

Johnson is why were in this mess today.

Reagan was a democrat until Johnson, then he went for Goldwater because he couldn't stand Johnson. Nobody could. The Democrats lost the initiative during his administration and in this election, the Goldwater Republicans finally got what they have been fighting for for 40 years: an undisputed Republican majority.

Better to decide what you are really about and fight for that.

I for one am not for "health care", social security, gays, abortion, or welfare. They don't motivate me at all. I am motivated by the perils and possibilities of our global village; the environment, the internet, alternative energy, spreading freedom and prosperity around the world, technology in general, space exploration.

We are on the cusp of epochal change, and I want a party that will make America the leader of that change, not fight against it or pretend its not going to happen.

Is anyone here really "for" abortion? Or would they be for a society where people were fully educated on birth control and sex practices, and that young people had the communal and financial support to have families instead of being stuck in school until they're too old to have kids?

There is more than winning, and that is the answer to the "moral" question.

by Paul Goodman on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 11:45:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The strategies are not mutually exclusive (none / 0)

The long-term strategy you describe is our most important goal, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't ALSO have pursued a better short-term strategy in terms of candidate demographics, geography, and ideology in this election, or that we should ignore those considerations in the next one.

Kerry-Edwards came very close to winning; Edwards-whoever might have done better (William Saletan thinks so, and I have great respect for his political insight).  However, given Kerry as the presidential nominee, it's entirely possible that Edwards was not the best choice of running mate.  It's not at all clear that we would have done worse in any of the states we won without Edwards on the ticket, and I can name three other possible candidates right off the top of my head who might have turned the election the other way by flipping one or two crucial swing states: Bill Nelson (Florida), Evan Bayh (Ohio due to regional appeal, and possibly deep-red Indiana due to favorite-son status -- they did just re-elect him to the Senate by an even larger margin than they gave Bush, after all), and Richard Gephardt (Missouri and Iowa).  Four years ago, Gore would probably have done better to run with almost any Democratic Senator or Governor other than Joe Lieberman, but would almost certainly have won with Bob Graham.

Short-term solutions are not worthless, let alone "beyond worthless," if they get us four years in control of the executive branch -- especially since we can use that control to further our long-term strategy so that we won't NEED to worry about the short-term considerations so much in future elections.  Turning down the volume on the Right Wing Noise Machine and building our own Left Wing Truth Machine would be a hell of a lot easier if a Democrat -- ANY Democrat -- got to appoint the next FCC chair.  Getting rid of the abominable vote-eating punch-card machines that probably cost us Ohio this time and certainly (among other equally important factors) cost us Florida last time, and replacing them with optical-scan or touch-screen-plus-paper-trail machines, NOT paperless black-box touch-screens like the ones used in Florida on Tuesday, would be a hell of a lot easier if a Democrat got to appoint the next FEC chair.  Yes, we need to shift the electorate our way, and over the next decade or two we can do it, but in the mean time it MATTERS who our standard bearers are, and where they come from, and where they stand on the issues on which a majority of the electorate presently disagrees with us.  Ignore those factors, and we risk committing suicide by nominating Hillary Clinton, probably giving the next repug nominee all the states Bush won this time plus Wisconsin, Minnesota, Michigan, and Pennsylvania.

Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama for President! Beat McCain!
by Alex on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 07:40:49 PM EST

GOTV is still the key (none / 0)

I agree that "gimmicks" and particular candidates should not be the focus now.  And we have a solidified base now from which to work.  I think we need to compare GOTV strategies at this point, and then start working towards 2006 and 2008 by seeing how we can improve our efforts and trip up the GOTV efforts of the opposition.  

Excuse me, but I made the following comment on an earlier, dead diary, but I think it is relevant to this diary, also:

In general, I think we had a great GOTV strategy, at least in the battleground states.  We made good inroads with state legislatures in battleground states because of this GOTV campaign.  This is particularly evident in Iowa, where I worked.

The problem with the presidential race is that Karl Rove had a better strategy.  His primary goal was to convince christians that Bush was the chosen one and that Kerry and the liberals were the devil, and this also worked to some extent with the Latino and African American communities.  Many of these people didn't vote before Reagan, but they have become increasingly important, and Rove really got them to the voting booth in 2004.  

Bush won Iowa solely by getting christians to the voting booth in western Iowa.  This district is only 20% of the state, but it had 18,000 more Bush votes compared to Bush in 2000.  In the other 80% of the state, Kerry won it by about the same margin as Gore won it.

His christian strategy was very successful where devout christians are in large numbers: Ohio (25% of the voters were evangelical), Iowa, Missouri, Arkansas, Florida, etc.  The Republicans also focused this effort on select Senate races, where they gained big.  But outside of Texas redistricting, we picked up a couple in the House.  Rove's (and the Repug Senate) success did not translate to statehouse races, and our GOTV was better than Republicans' at this level.

I think we should look at our success with our GOTV effort in 2004, build upon it by looking at the mistakes we made, and then develop strategies to take away the incentive for the christian right to show up at the voting booth in 2006 and 2008.  This group is an easy one to confuse, and if we can show them that they are being used by the Republican Pary and suggest that what we offer is as important to them as the Rethug message, then they might go back to sitting out elections and stop canceling out our GOTV effort.

by tomcat on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 07:42:00 PM EST

Re: GOTV is still the key (none / 0)

Maybe we have to start a new GOTV religion and build democratic churches everywhere?

Rove used the built-in infrastructure and leadership of the churches to get out his vote and solidify tremendous loyalty. We raised millions of dollars and set up corporations. Is this really sustainable and is their any  "loyalty"? People do feel attached to MoveOn so maybe some of these orgs can nurture a following but not many.

More than anything we need to proudly tout our own set of mainstream positive family values/actions and use new vehicles to spread them. We need to separate ourselves from the "anything goes" and "flip/flop" label applied to liberals and show we "stand firm" for something good.

And we need to renew and rethink our appeal to women. This huge base is eroding for dems perhaps because the values issues are currently framed against dems and we are painted as "anti-family" and "anything goes". We need to reframe the message around the "kitchen table" and people's "home experience" and stop living/dying by the fringes. And believe me, Bush's policies will hit homes hard.

Many million more women than men vote. Maybe we can counter Rove's church strategy by using beauty salons as our vehicle to carry-on our GOTV "messaging" effort! Now that's refreshing already. Women are very loyal to their hairdressers ;) And my guess is we've got a good portion of the hairdressers in our corner already!

by slammers on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 09:18:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

My friend the hairdresser (none / 0)

He actually owns a couple of salons, and the middle age women love him.  He's a Democrat, though not an activist, but people like him could make a difference. Many of his customers are married to Republicans, but they are more likely to listen to my friend the hairdresser.

However, most of the hairdressers are women or gay, according to my friend.  So, the types of hairdressers that could be really persuasive may be in the minority.  But actually, I think you are right.  

We need to change the medium of our message.  We need more targeted advertizing in media that devout christians, regular moms, and everyday people (even rednecks) see.  And I have absolutely no qualms about exagerating the message a little.  We are the only fiscally conservative party, we are the party that will protect your rights, we care about you and the Republicans only use you, there were fewer abortions when we were in power, Jesus and the Pope are on our side, the Republicans are the "Let them eat cake" party, etc.

by tomcat on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 10:32:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My friend the hairdresser (none / 0)

Between the persvasive skills, and the trusted audience, the later is a solid asset, and the former is an acquirable one.   We can run workshops and training camps for the more well connected, and outgoing people to sharpen their marketing skills.
by guna on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 10:46:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My friend the hairdresser (none / 0)

This is trite but true. More women listen to their hairdressers than their husbands! This is a wedge we've got to exploit.
by slammers on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 11:51:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My friend the hairdresser (none / 0)

Well put. No offense, but I need to point out that one of the Evangelicals in my life usually has a red neck, grew up on a farm in Ohio, and is incredibly intelligent and persuasive. We'll never capture his vote until we put something on the line that might get his vote; his pride in being an American.

Howard Dean had it right, but he chose the wrong language to express it. We need to stop condescending to the working class. Appeal to the American value system by saying, "Yes! You can go to church. Yes! You can have religious values."

"But the Radical Right, want everyone to pray their way. We represent freedom, liberty, and democracy."

Let's be more honest about this. The Republican Party = Halliburton and Enron had strong appeal. But what about comparing them to a theocracy? The Republican Party = Iran is actually, factually, not off-base. Npw that's harsh, but it's true. They want a theocracy. They can't have it. We're taking America back.

by Green Irishboy on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 11:53:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My friend the hairdresser (none / 0)

I agree there's something to painting the radical right as too controlling or "my way of the highway" people. Catholics sure don't have a lot of affection for them and vice versa because the evangelicals believe there's only "one right way to Jesus" or whatever. I don't really know. But it seems like we could turn this very firm belief against them in order to win over the many other religious folks who are more open and moderate.

I went to a campaign party with an older woman in Seattle. She said she was dismayed about the bad name "religion" was getting because of the religious right. She's a very religious person who feels offended because she's being lumped in with the radicals. Right now I think we need to be cautious about "attacking" religious people in general. We need to attack their message, and flip it to our advantage to show we are accepting of all religions.

by slammers on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 12:14:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My friend the hairdresser (none / 0)

I see your point with that. I respect people with strong religious conviction, if and only if they can respect my beliefs and not legislate away my freedoms.

We could work on that message a little, I think.

by Green Irishboy on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 03:27:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My friend the hairdresser (none / 0)

"Yes! You can go to church. Yes! You can have religious values."

"But the Radical Right, want everyone to pray their way. We represent freedom, liberty, and democracy."

I agree.  The above message was great, but comparing them to Iran is going to PISS a lot of people off, including the ones who might be willing to listen to the first argument.

I think we need to forma  religious left.  Some have said form our own church...no need...The religious left exists...it is just neglected and unorganized.  The liberal protestant groups such as the UCC.  Jewish followers.  Moderate Islamics.  Moderate Mormons, etc.  Basically, we need the religious left to not be about CHRISTIAN VALUES but the values that are preached by all religions.  We need to reach out to the tolerant ones.  The religous left says, we don't care who you pray too.  We don't care what color you are.  We don't care about your sexuality.  We want you to worship in whatever way makes you feel comfortable.    We just want you to be openminded, care about the less fortunate, be a good person etc.  Obviously not all these groups will come.  However there are some inroads.  Mormoms are VERY conservative.  Yet the christian right abhors their religion.  They vote GOP based on value arguments, but there is nothing to say the Religious left can't appeal to some of those arguments.  Like the log cabin GOP.  They support a group that is fundamentally against them, based on some of the values they have.  So another possibility.  Inclusion vs non-inclusion could make a huge difference in this type of race.  

by yitbos96bb on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 02:13:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: GOTV is still the key (none / 0)

There's a problem.

The portion of our GOTV strategy that worked was to bring disconnected voters to the polls.  The problem is, they voted, and the guy they voted for lost anyways.  They are very likely to be seriously discouraged, and go back to the "it doesn't matter what I do" point of view.

by Geotpf on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 03:54:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: GOTV is still the key (none / 0)

Agreed.  We need to make these people see.  I also think we need to increase the GOTV on campuses.  We got them registered but still didn't do a great job at getting the 18-24 to the polls.  We need a group to target these ages and drive them, bug them etc.  We know most kids that age tend to vote Dem.  So increased turnout is to our advantage.  I think you make this non-partisan.  The recruitment works to our advantage, so why discriminate againt GOP supporters.  After elections have a huge I voted party with free food, drink etc. Free to anyone who voted, regardless of party...This may help too.  Include prizes to those who attend.  If we can increase the turnout this will help big time.
by yitbos96bb on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 02:18:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

They know what we're against, what are we for? (none / 0)

We cannot have a party based on stopping the Republicans, no matter how tempting that may be.  I think we need to communicate our core values, tolerance, equality of opportunity, respect for the environment, making sure everyone who has a job has healthcare and a decent standard of living, to America.  We have a very compassionate, dare I say, Christian message in how society should treat those less fortunate.  Why not be proud of it?  Also, I think we need to start using Federalism to our advantage.  The Stem Cell initiative in California points the way.  In the states that we control if we are able to do something about health care, a living wage, etc. while not busting budgets or driving businesses away, we'll go a long way to proving that our model will work for the country as a whole.  Besides, if we wait for the Creationist-controlled central government to do something about the looming health care crisis, we'll be waiting a long time.

Remember, every time they cut taxes they make our states stronger.  California, New York, Massachusetts, Illinois...  All these states pay far more to the Federal government than they get back in services.  As Grover Nordquist & friends starve the central government, they're hurting the red states (except Georgia).  I say, we take that money and buy ourselves a little health care.  I think I've been converted into a small (national) government liberal.

by the unpaid halfwit on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 07:42:25 PM EST

Re: They know what we're against, what are we for? (none / 0)

Small national government liberal. Now that's a phrase you could  start building an framework around. They always accuse us of being the big govt people with "nationalized" programs. Flip it on it's head and let's see what we come up with.

What would it mean to values issues? What would it mean to healthcare? What would it mean to social security? What would it mean to taxes and debt? What would it mean to the environment What would it mean to be a good citizen?

offpoint but looking ahead I think the environment is increasingly a looming issue on "moms" minds because of what we're leaving for our kids. I can hear it on the playgrounds.

by slammers on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 12:00:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

where is our newt (none / 0)

i believe we need a newt... admittedly he was a lowlife one man band at first... but he was organized and he had a brutal steady drumbeat of resentment and anger

we are truly a minority party now. we can either be a quiet  "loyal opposition" party ... like the republicans were prior to reagan... or we can fight a guerilla warfare ( figuratvely speaking)... the republicans slowly and methodically over a period of 20 + years... started a bottom to top overhaul.... school boards turned red... corporation commisions turned red... a state district here and there turned red... all while they slowly cultvated specific individuals to rise  through the ranks... it is no accident of history that powell rose to chairman of joint chiefs and then secretary of state ( however worthy is not an issue)
newt and others wrung out resentment and anger like a symphony orchestra leader... no issue was too small to vent on. as a red firebrand he worked magic... he slowly and methodically raised a nationwide legion to rise up and kill demon serpent.

 i forget the name of the man who wrote book on quality control in america... (started with a D)... but even back in early 70s he was clamoring in his book that it was wrong for amercans to have to pay tuition at private schools AND pay taxes for public education... some sort of voucher system was needed.

again resentent and anger ... long cultivated

any suggestion of obama as our party leader at is point is wrong... and thankfully obama realizes it.. he needs to get some senate tme under his belt... lean the ropes... he will make a wonderful president some day... but thats not 2008

in the meantime we need a blue firebrand  like newt

newt knew how to do it... he could be our best teacher
 

by bluebudda on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 07:42:44 PM EST

Where are we? We do we offer the country? (none / 0)

I agree with the premise of the opening statement. Progressives must be a coherent political movement with a coherent set of values and plans to offer. The regime we have and its policies will fail. When it does the American people will be looking around for another direction. Trade deficits of $400 plus billion, deficits of half a trillion a year, growing  impoverishment of the middle and lower classes. What happens when the foreign banks ask for their money, what happens when everyone out there overseas wants their dollars exchanged. What happens when the military over extension collapses. Empires come and go and ours is going. This is the time for an American Progressive Movement to come together.
Bill from Oregon
by cmpnwtr on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 08:00:23 PM EST

one thing is clear... (none / 0)

You can't win a national race without controlling your message.  The republicans were able to control their message because they had a centralized command and control message machine in place - Karl Rove and band of surrogates.  At the same time, people like Joe Trippi were telling the NY Times that the Osama Bin Laden video is good for Bush, 3 days before the election.

The Republican's presentation of their message was also far superior to the Dems.  For instance, the giant high definition tv screen at the rnc convention was brilliant.  Kerry had this election in the bag, until the Swift Boat Attacks/RNC.

I place some of the blame on Cahill, she clearly was unprepared for a National Campaign.  

   

by agpc on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 08:00:46 PM EST

Joe Trippi is as bad as Zell Miller (none / 0)

He has outlived his usefulness.  Somebody should have duct taped his mouth and thrown him into a closet months ago.
by Geotpf on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 03:56:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Stop twitching, and stop watching mainstream TV (none / 0)

Let's analyze our sucesses and stop letting our minds in any way be influenced by the "pundits" on mainstream TV.  I really mean it, just take a break from CNN and all the rest until after Christmas at least.  Maybe they will notice the big drop in ratings and change their rhetoric; at the very least YOU will have greater peace of mind and clearer perception.  You can get all the news you need on the internet and radio.  

I am an election judge in Minnesota.  After the 2002 election, when Norm Coleman beat Walter Mondale amid a flurry of media crap and misrepresentation of the Wellstone Memorial, we also ended up with a Republican Governor and Republican majority in the State house of representatives.  So for two years, our local pundits have blathered on about how and why Minnesota is moving to the right.  The reality -- it didn't and isn't!!  November 2 we had 73% voter turnout, replaced 8 Republican state reps with Democrats and clearly chose John Kerry.  Personally, I think the extra 13% over the national average turnout made the difference.  Must shut up now, before I come up with a gimmick for getting out that extra 13% elsewhere.

by SageGreentrees on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 08:05:15 PM EST

Religious Right (none / 0)

We keep talking about Rove's alliance with the religious right as just a political idealogy. But churches are also natural communities for efficient neighbor-to-neighbor GOTV efforts. (Although I do think the way they campaigned in churches is against the law).

We need our own neighbor-to-neighbor pyramid/AMWAY model to organize. With all due respect to MoveOn, ACT, etc, there is no way some kid from across town or from out of state can compete with a neighbor knocking on your door. Except through the brute force approach of dumping a lot of $ into this kind of effort, but it's not as efficient!

Speaking for my precinct, turnout was excellent, and turnout on my block was PERFECT, partly because I personally pestered everyone to get their ballots in (I live in OR, where we 100% absentee ballot - and we can get lists from the elections office to see who hasn't turned in ballots yet).

We need to develop our own neighbor-to-neighbor approach that's as effective as the right's church strategy and we need to start doing it now in OH, FL, WI, IA, NM, NV. Precinct Leaders, Block Captains, etc. Especially in the cities.

by Feeling Blue on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 08:18:28 PM EST

Re: Religious Right (none / 0)

Well said Feelinf Blue. Several years ago, I attended a group called Excellence.  It is a seminar series comprised of several weekends het together and serious introspection. It is along the lines of Anthony Robins's Fire Walk program.

The mere presence of it Louisiana created a solid network of 800 people who shared a greater enlightenment, -- which transcended party, religion and ideoligical differences. We were creating a community.  It is possible to create a wide spread network like the one you propose.  If we add an element of "Art of Living" or "Education for Excellence" etc, it will both enrich, add fellowship skills, and be just fun.

Steven Covey calls this emotional bank account as it grows.  How do we go about it?

by guna on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 10:40:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Religious Right (none / 0)

Blue that is exactly right.

What we forget is that the party machines despite the corruption managed to get and maintain their power through personal contact and a sense of community. The republicans have created this on a national scale with the churches fronting as their ward healers giving allow it to mask itself in some sort of moral superiority. But at its core it is really Tamnany Hall writ large.

GOTV is fine but more than that is needed to counteract the republican machine. Direct personal contact is central to the effort. Just think of how much strength and purpose you draw from this community. We can engage at a much earlier time in the process.

For example we know that "frivolous lawsuits" is coming. What if we simply did a survey asking that if the proposal to limit our rights to sue and a jury's right to impose damages is passed what responsibilities should the government assume to protect us. A "we are listening campaign" but adding just a touch of the underlying complexities of the issue that the sound bite sloganeering ignores.

A booth at the mall for a weekend, 10,000 of us calling 10 people and/or knocking on doors would go a long way towards slowly chipping away. Like Chris has said strategic and not tactical at this point. Slowly framing each issue while pointing out those simple solutions usually just sound good. When we engage people on issues we can only win.

by Judeling on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 02:53:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Spectacular bit of prose from Bowers (none / 0)

Now go on and post it everywhere you can, particular on Kos which seems overrun by DLC goons
by 2006 on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 08:22:48 PM EST

Hearts and Minds (none / 0)

Look, winning the trust of a huge group of people who agree with us on the basic issues--who are anti-corporate, working class, need health care reform, respect the environment, etc, is only going to happen if the Democratic party can un-demonize itself.  This is only done on the most local level, candidate by candidate, sticking to our core values (we are the party of commitment to working men and women), of equity, of advocacy for the environment.  The social policy detours will just need to be put on hold for a while.

As far as I'm concerned, if we build this kind of coalition, from the ground up, we can get our voice back, and language will return to its meaning before our political vocabulary was hijacked by the GOP.

The most extreme of the fundamentalists are never going to be on our side, but they are about a third of the electorate only.  There is a big enough piece of this that we can reach, but one, by one, by one voter--locally--with patience and consistency--in communities, not states, not the entire nation, and not by taking a sudden veer to the right (yugh, we might as well be Bush then), or looking for Mr. Southern Charisma Democrat.

I was a Kerry supporter from day one, and glad he picked Edwards, but as I listened to Edwards I was glad he was going to have some seasoning as VP.  I do not think he had the strength or experience to easily step into the presidency, but would have gotten there quickly.  Kerry would have made a magnificent president, and this country has just lost a hell of a lot.

by mady on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 08:25:53 PM EST

Be realistic about one thing. (none / 0)

Good post, but come on, voters will always, always make strategic choices of candidates.    It won't mean we're "finished" when that inevitably happens again.

One thing is for sure, in my opinion:  no more overtly secular candidates.     That's not to endorse false religiosity, of course.     And no more automatic rejection of "boring" candidates from the midwest by coastal excitement seekers.   I myself have fallen into this trap and won't again.    

I wonder if I would have seen Harry Truman in the 2004 primaries as some uptight midwesterner.    

And the press will slap a label like "electability" on it, and supporters of candidates who are shortchanged by voters will howl.    In the end, votes will determine a primary winner.    Yeah, I know I'm a fountain of profundity here.

And for the poster who said Kos is overrun with DLC Goons, not only is that absurd and incorrect, that is exactly the attitude that will prevent increasing the size of the coalition.    

by Andmoreagain on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 08:40:30 PM EST

My List (none / 0)

I would like to see others add to this list and make it more complete. I'll be updating it with people's suggestions as I get them, at http://nicholasbernstein.com/return_of_the_jedi.html
(yes, I know it's a crappy metaphor)

Things to do:

  • We need to get democratic candidates in local elections, school boards, city council, etc. To do this, we should:
    • start raising money on a national and state level for funds dedicated to small local races.
    • concentrate our forces on the red states that are almost purple by:
      • having democratic clubs/groups "sponsor" dem clubs/groups in purple states
        • phone bank for them
        • raise money for them
        • co-ordinate volunteers

        • design, create, and mail flyers and marketing info for them
    • Provide an infrastructure for local campaigns that allows them to go to one website and start a campaign. Everything. For example:
      • Bumper stickers
      • Lawn Signs
      • pins
      • access to a voter databases
      • application for money from the state/city/county party
      • access to a database of known volunteers
      • send out an announcement to the state party, local party, city party democratic clubs, etc.
      • give them contact info for every democratic organization in their area
  • Make sure the votes we get are counted.
    • fund projects like the Open Voting Consortium -- they're good. Seriously. I do information security for a living.
    • start lobbying for votes to be verified by foreign election groups.
  • get new voters:

    • Immigration reform. Lets get all of these mexicans who are sneaking into the country legal, and get them voting.
      • We need to have people on telemunda constantly
      • we should be doing interviews with mexican television stations, and newspapers.
      • We need to start communicating with industries that require a four year degree
        • do interviews with technology sites like slashdot
        • do interviews with scientific magazines like the popular science, the journal nature, websites like newscientist.com
        • literary magazines
        • womens magazines: "O", glamor, vouge, etc.
        • college alumni mailing lists
        • union newsletters
      • Local Democratic clubs and parties should do volunteer work at least a few times a year in poor <insert minority group> communities

  • We need to constantly be experimenting with different was of presenting issues
    • We need more thinktanks.
    • we need to create an infrastructure for distributed polling callcenters: you should be able to go to a website, log in, be presented with a script, a number, and several potential responses so volunteers can put in 10 minutes here, and ten minutes there and don't have to gather at "phone banks"
  • we need tons of data
    • we need databases with more than just a persons name, address, phone number, email address, age and race. We need interests, priority, employment status, ranked issues, religion, if they practice regularly, what issues they have a problem with. What Issues they don't understand, their favorite color...<u>everything</u>
    • everyone needs access to that data.
  • We need to express ourselves better

    • If we are running an issues based campaign we need to explain our plans
      • if we don't explain how our plan for iraq is different <u>people won't know</u>
      • websites need to have the how, what, when, where, why and how much it costs on every issue
      • we should experiment with Ross Perot style intomertial adds explaining issues.
        • Yes, they are expensive, yes 527's could probably do them.
        • If on air is to expensive, webcast them
        • experiment with doing it on the radio
      • if half an hour wont work, how about ten minute, or five minute?
  • We need to talk about morals
    • Morals doesn't necessarally mean G-D
      • if you're not religious don't pretend to be.
      • Talk about our morals, not theirs:

        • It is morally wrong for us not to help a sick kid go to the doctor.
        • It is morally wrong that schools in black neighborhoods are worse than schools in white neighborhoods
        • It is morally wrong for a poor family not to be able to send their kids to college.
        • It is morally wrong for us to stick our kids with the bill
        • It is morally wrong for us not to take care of our grandparents
        • It is morally wrong to destroy the earth
        • It is morally wrong for us to impose our beliefs on others
        • It is morally wrong for us to allow anyone to have extremely dangerous weapons
        • It is morally wrong for us to continue to allow the leading cause of death among black men to be murder
        • It is morally wrong for us to allow businesses to keep taking advantage of illegal immigrants
        • It is morally wrong for us to allow corporations and millionares to get out of taxes





  • by niku on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 08:41:32 PM EST

    Re: My List (none / 0)

    The Democratic club seems a great idea.  One of the fundamental roles of churches is to bringforth cohesivity in community through fellowship.  We can do the same, by monthly meetings, and annual projects like give for the poor during winter seasons.  Next time around when church or neghborhood organization come to collect money for a charitable cause say no, and collect on your own give the same to them as a democrats's contribution.  They will notice. Better yet, go and serve, with a democratic T-shirt on. Serve and get noticed as democrat. So much can be done by this democratic clubs.

    I have been a rotarian for fifteen years. I know the strength of networking and fellowship. It works.

    by guna on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 10:52:40 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Democratic Clubs (none / 0)

    We have "Democratic Clubs" in all 50 states. They are called "Democracy For America Meetups". Thousands of people - yes, still - go to them. They are the first Wednesday of the month at 7. You can find them at Meetup.com. Come see for yourself.
    by ericd1112 on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 11:11:03 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Democratic Clubs (none / 0)

    democrat.meetup.com is on the 2nd tuesday, and they are great, but there are actual "clubs" that have been in existance since the 20s, and they generally have fundraising operations, plans, mettings and contacts already in place.

    Not that the dfa meetup aren't great, those definitely could work too.

    by niku on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 06:38:47 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: My List (none / 0)

    I'll offer a suggestion here for others to fillet or not. My idea for the list is related to finding ways of presenting issues and expressing ourselves better.

    We are offering a "product" but we only try to sell it during election cycles when it is easier for potential buyers to dismiss as just the same old political ?!##% and its harder to make the sale over the din of all the other competing messages.

    Assuming we can generate the funds to cover the costs, why don't we market our product 365 days a year to the yet unsold consumers of progressive ideas with advertising like other products? If we can get a potential purchaser of progressive politics to listen for 30 seconds to an ad selling our ideas on invidual freedom, economic justice, environmental protection, in a non-political season, we might have a better chance of securing the vote when it counts.

    Maybe this is too simplistic but I am old enough to remember the 1970's television ad with the American Indian chief on his horse with a tear in his eye as he looked over the environmental degradation before him. This was one of the most effective tools for the environmental movement ever developed. It seems to me that we can use this tool to build support for other progressive ideas in a less confrontational atmosphere.

    by dicta on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 11:42:31 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: My List (none / 0)

    I think this is important. Our candidates in 2006 and 2008 shouldn't have to spend 90% of thier effort trying to suddenly get people to pay attention to basic isssues, and the past several years of the Republican record. The Republicans spent most of 1998 and 1999 tearing down Clinton and the Democratic party, and Bush and the right are going to spend the next several years doing the same thing to anyone who gets in their way. We need a message, and a clear, positive vision, but we also need to get our message, including their failures in front of people, day in and day out, and we can't expect the press or media to help us do it.

    At the grass roots level, we should be reminding every potential democratic voter who has a Republican senator, representative, governor, or whatever, about what those people are doing to our vision, our country, and our future. Getting lots of folks registered, and out to vote was a good start, we need to build on that, and we need to do it day in and day out, locally, statewide, and nationally.

    That's going to require money, and people. The 2006 midterm election battle started on Novemeber 3rd, and we shouldn't forget it.

    - David

    by nycdwl on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 11:20:51 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: My Morals List (none / 0)

    I'd love to see your morals list stated in the positive. let's try talking about what's right about our morals.
    by slammers on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 12:25:43 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: My List (none / 0)

    I'm regretting my user name choice, because it sounds like I'm a Green. I like some of their ideas, dislike others. Ah well.

    Here's my suggestions;

    • Start building a coalition. I don't mean jump at trying to assimilate every 3rd party that's close to our values; instead, reach out to them and try to find out how we can appeal to those who CLOSELY share our core values. In other countries, those parties would generally build coalitions and cooperate. There are things we can learn from others (except the Radical Right, our mortal enemies).

    • Expand on that. Contact political parties in other countries to build an international coalition. Why? It's in the global interest to play our game. America is a superpower, baby. And people care how we vote.

    • Become economic activists. Refuse to support media, corporations, or businesses that siphon money off to silencing our voices.

    • Make the people lead the party, not the party lead the people. It's time we called the shots, people. I respect the Democratic party, but we can do a lot more than talk on a blog.

    by Green Irishboy on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 12:50:24 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: My List (none / 0)

    Thanks all. I will add these suggestions to the list.
    by niku on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 12:57:08 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: My List (none / 0)

    niku,

    Impressive list -- good job!

    I would add a couple of things off the top of my head.

    I believe progressives should do whatever we can to build up more of a presence on talk radio, in more places around the country.  We must do a better job of countering the ceaseless spewing of garbage that is happening on the other side.  People do listen to talk radio in their cars -- and commuting times for some people are huge.

    I also think that the Democratic party can do a much better and smarter job of reaching out to Asian Americans.  In this election and in the 2000 election, I noted that Asian Americans voted convincingly for Gore and Kerry.  However, I also note that Asian Americans are very likely NOT to be registered to vote.  This needs to change.  Democrats could do much more to have Asian American leaders who speak various Asian languages to reach out to their various communities in order to more effectively  communicate and educate and register people to vote.

    Brief anecdote.  I have several very good friends who are Vietnamese.  About a week or so before the election I was telling one of my friends about my efforts to call voters in swing states (I live in Texas) on behalf of the Kerry/Edwards campaign.  He asked me if there were lists of Vietnamese Americans he could call, and I thought, "WOW, I don't know.  But that would be a very smart idea!!"  The same would be true for Chinese Americans, Japanese Americans, etc. etc.

    by toddfrmtx on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 02:59:39 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Wholesomeness (none / 0)

    I think the bottom line was that John Kerry doesn't come across as wholesome. What's the problem with this dirty liberal thing? Somehow it got twisted to mean "getting blowjobs in the white house". There was a visceral reaction to that, as in regular moms and dads had to explain to their 6 year olds what they were talkign about on the TV. That's why Gore lost.

    Kerry, of course, has nothing to do with that, but there's still lingering stereotypes. Democratic values are very christian and honest. Liberal comes from "liberty" and "freedom". We have to promote this. The right is running away on abortion and homosexuality.

    Impressions matter. Unfortunitely it's a media based society. I think we need a candidate who comes off as wholesome in a religious sense.

    by DemInTokyo on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 08:42:24 PM EST

    Where are our leaders??? (none / 0)

    Look it think that in the majority Chris IS right, the Christina conservatives are increasing in number and it is actually spilling over to Catholics, to Hispanics and to regular church going folk. Of course that by the agenda of fear or the much-touted "Moral Values" issues.

    But I don't actually think that we have to go and change the ideas of people, we just need to sell OUR AGENDA BETTER, we need to clarify, simplify our ideas to the general public, and if that means that we have to bring down the fear tactics by Rove so be it, it is not a war but it is a big cultural divide. And I don't propose a war on Limbaugh or O'Really or even Rove or Bush.

    We need to come to terms that we need to be firm in what we believe and actually make our leaders stand up to our "values and issues", Kerry is an extremely honorable and moral human being but lets just come out and say it, HE IS NOT A LEADER. Non of the candidates for Dems were leaders, we need leaders in all aspects of the movement. For Prez, VP, leaders of the house and senate, leaders of the DNC and especially brains, thinkers, people with fresh new ideas to invigorate and SELL our ideas, sell in the sense of making America understand what a DEMOCRAT IS, what a liberal really means.

    We need to stop attacking the Rethugs to the fanatical extent that we have done, we are only validating their movement every day more and more, and we need to start defending ourselves like MEN.

    I am actually glad that Daschel was defeated, remember how ineffective and spineless he was when the Rethugs did steal the election from us, their was no collective and organized voice and outcry form any leader of the democratic party, the people in Florida did move (just see F 9-11 when the people were protesting in the Senate) no senator was brave enough to defend Gore! And this is how we want to win the hearts and mind of the American people? Come on, that is why all the illogical religious reasons of the Repubs are working, because they have thinkers and leaders. The are extremely organized, maybe the actually do believe in what they are preaching and that is why the will defend it to the end. So what is wrong with all of us, when are we going to start defending and yelling what we stand for, when???

    by Democrata on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 08:57:07 PM EST

    Re: Where are our leaders??? (none / 0)

    Is the number of evangelicals increasing, or did Rove just get more of them out to vote? I believe it's the former, I hope it's the latter, and I wonder if anyone knows.
    by accommodatingly on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 01:37:14 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Where are our leaders??? (none / 0)

    Daschle, a good man, nevertheless got exactly what he deserved, and what we as Democrats deserved. We - or at least our state party leadership - made him our leader, knowing he was in a vulnerable position at home. We then kept him as Minority Leader when, for example, he spent his energies in the tax cut battle (remember that?) fighting for the SIZE of the cut, thereby conceding whether we should even HAVE one in a deficit economy with a war brewing.

    Some guy from Vermont pointed this out at the time...

    by ericd1112 on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 11:14:07 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Imports (none / 0)

    I'm a-thinking it will be the governator vs. Granholm.  

    the Austrian vs. the Canadian.

    I mean, come on, you don;t think the Republicans aren't salivating all over Arnold?  He would carry California!  How could we combat him?  We would have to take the women's vote BIG.  through some video and pictures of Arnold groping womenon TV and have a woman as you candidate.

    Now with the "mandate" and "solid victory," the GOP can amend te constitution to let them go at it.

    by badpolitiks on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 09:07:04 PM EST

    Re: Imports (none / 0)

    Interesting idea, but speaking as a Michigander, she's not that big here. She's respected, but not entirely beloved.
    by Green Irishboy on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 12:10:31 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Imports (none / 0)

    Gov. Granholm also, if memory serves, was born in Canada, making her just as ineligible as Ahnold.
    by ericd1112 on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 11:14:59 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Populism and breaking it down (3.00 / 2)

    I said it after the third debate on Daily Kos.

    "Too bad John Kerry doesn't have a single populist bone in his body."  

    I did not have a good feeling coming away from that debate, but others did, and I decided my gut feeling might be wrong.  Now I find myself coming back to it  I've never known populism not to change the dynamics of a race.

    Bush connected with "ordinary folk" - even though what he was saying was bullshit.  Kerry did not, even though, much of what he was saying made good sense.  I don't mean to say that Kerry was a bad campaigner.  He gave it everything he had and I believe he fought hard.

    So what am I talking about?  Not Kerry's inadequate efforts to drop g's and say "folks".  I'm referring to his inability to break an issue down for everyday people.

    Tax cut for example.   The $200,000 cutoff line began to sound defensive and weak.  But break the tax cut down.  Average Joe got what, $500 back?  How much did his local state and property taxes have to go up to compensate?  I know what happened to my property taxes this year.  The tax cut was a shell game.  I never heard that simple bit of analysis from Kerry.  How hard would have it been to personalize this with actual experience?

    No Child Left Behind.  Over and over Kerry says "he didn't fund it!".  That's policy wonk talk.
    "He didn't fund it, so someone had to and that someone was you, with higher state and local taxes.  They gave you a cut with one hand and took it away with the other."  That's breaking it down.

    The most inspiring Democrat I met in my GOTV efforts was a 60 year old black guy from Milwaukee who wore a Laborer's union T-Shirt and invited me into his house which was adorned with crucifixes on every wall.  He told me about a woman he knew, from church.  She couldn't believe he was for Kerry - who, horror of horrors, supported abortion.  His reply - "Look, I'm not for abortion and neither is Kerry.  But it's none of our business.  It's between the woman and God.  If he punishes anyone it won't be me and it won't be Kerry.  It's for the woman to decide."

    Maybe that's not the height of secular modernity  but he swung that woman's vote!  He knew how to break it down.  He was there when she needed someone to break it down for her.  I told him how inspired I was to meet such a true Democrat.

    You can't win if you don't know how to talk to people.  And you won't know how to talk to them unless you talk to them.

    That's not a gimmick strategy.  I totally agree with your opposition to such.  Part of the conclusion must be to take our newfound gains in activism and figure out how to take it to places where we haven't been before.

    We can't be afraid of the Red States.  So many who post here and on Daily Kos seem to be.  Over the next four years we have to find ways, to look for ways, to take the battle back to their turf.

    by sTiVo on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 09:33:57 PM EST

    Re: Populism and breaking it down (none / 0)

    I agree wholeheartedly.  Talk to people.  Talk to people of color.  Talk to women.  Talk to old people, talk to the baby boomers.  All of us are real people too, and we need to have two way communications.

    Kitchen table issues are important.  Talk about them.  

    by Carol on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 09:49:14 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Populism and breaking it down (none / 0)

    Don't leave white people off your list.  Had a conversation with some local Kerry volunteers in Janesville, at the Labor Temple, in between door-knocking runs.  She was in a wheelchair, her husband who worked for GM and whip-smart daughter were all out doing what they could for the campaign.  She grew up Republican, but thirty years of working in factories changed that.  (That and the union, I might add).  I told her my story about the guy in Milwaukee - her take on abortion was that they're rising because people just can't afford to have kids now.  

    There are allies out there.  We need to find them.

    by sTiVo on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 06:35:32 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Populism and breaking it down (none / 0)

    Old black men have some wise words. We need more of them in our messaging discussion. I talked to such a man while I was phonebanking and he told me how some of the black folk in Dayton were thinking about voting for Bush because he talks of his faith and they liked that (plus he's funneling money to their churches). He told them, look, we need  a man who is controlled by his faith, but we don't need one who governs by faith." He told me we needed Kerry to talk about his faith more to let those people know Kerry was religious.

    So in four years the GOP could start peeling off the black church community if we don't fix our message to the religious. It didn't happen this time but you can bet the GOP is salivating at the thought.

    by slammers on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 12:43:22 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Informed and uninformed Christians (none / 0)

    I am a confirmed athiest, but I really think we need to go after devout Christians.  Some of these are informed, thinking people, and these are not the ones we need to target.  It is the uninformed and largely ignorant religious people that the Republicans have targeted and staked their success on.  This started with Reagan or maybe the moral majority of Nixon, which Carter later won over), but Karl Rove saw where they needed to target this group more (his goal of 4 million more religious nuts for Bush).  He won and we loss by the success of Rove's strategy.  We do not need any more than this simple fact to explain Bush's success with the popular vote and his success in Ohio and Iowa.  We need to win over these religious nuts, or at least discourage their voting and take away the Republican monopoly on this very significant sector of America.
    by tomcat on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 10:00:30 PM EST

    Re: Informed and uninformed Christians (none / 0)

    They may have made a difference in this election but the Repubs may have blown their wad on the Gay marriage wedge issue.  As others have suggested, we may be able to split them up a bit on the abortion issue with refined messages such as those from the man in sTiVo's post and a more obvious Dem focus on methods that effectively reduce the number of abortions needed without impacting the fundamental option of personal choice.  As for prayer in school, since it seems that many of these people avoid the secular schools already, I doubt they are that committed in regard to that issue.  In fact, there are many ultra-religious people who are against school prayer because they feel that it will be so non-demonational and wishy-washy as to undermine the particular concept of prayer they desire to place on their child.        
    by cthulhu on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 10:53:28 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Informed and uninformed Christians (none / 0)

    I know an informed Christian, lives in Ohio, very intelligent former farmer... some, including him, would call him a "redneck". I know what he'd do if he heard this talk.

    He'd start laughing right in our faces.

    The Evangelicals have their party. They took it right over. I don't think we can ever appeal to them without becoming that party. We won't win them over and we shouldn't try.

    by Green Irishboy on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 12:16:26 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Informed and uninformed Christians (none / 0)

    GreenIrishBoy:

    You're dead right about the Christian Right.  Folks, it's OVER with them.  They've co-opted the Republican party and they - AND the libertarian Republicans and fiscal conservative moderate Republicans - KNOW it.

    Now, the whole thing about the older black man who said it best:

    'Hey, it's the decision between a woman and her doctor and it's none of my NOR the government's business.  God will be the final arbiter and I trust GOD - more than the government - to be the better arbiter of sin.'  I would only add this:

    "Hey, if you hate abortion, then why the hell support a man who presided over an INCREASE in abortions?"  Results and repition RESONATE!

    Kerry's 'tortured soul' act about abortion seemed like grotesque pandering - and when people sniff pandering in a politician vs. GWB 'take or leave it and it you leave it, fuck y'all', MEN will take GWB almost everytime.  Throw in security moms for 'the dangers of those Arab freaks' and GWB's attitude, swagger and decisiveness scores huge.

    This reaching out to the Fundies is BULLSHIT.  They had their moment in the sun and remember, they're only 23% of the population.  It also DILUTES OUR MESSAGE.  Be strong and DON'T FREAKING BE AFRAID OF PISSING PEOPLE OFF - that's why when people vote for 'values' many times they mean 'values' such as 'the guy's a freakin' bad-ass, but hey at least you know where's he coming from.  I value honesty and a SPINE.'  Kerry has a brain and a spine and would've been a KICKASS President.  He should have however:

    1.  Been more of a badass, like flat-out calling Bush a freakin' liar instead of 'he's not been candid with the American people'.
    2.  Fucking KEEP RUNNING the Video of GWB and McCain ad EVERY TIME A SWIFT VOTE ad came on.  Fuck McCain, this is a freakin' election and that McCain bastard ended up with GWB's manhood (or should I say mandate) up in his rectum.  THIS WAS BY FAR THE MOST EFFECTIVE AD AT SHOWING THE TRUE BUSH WEAKNESS.
    3.  

    Our biggest concern is the reaching out to the Hispanic vote before it goes Repug.  We have 60% of it, when we should have 70-75%, bottom line. I don't like that and Latinos are gonna be a shitload more important to us than reaching out to some Bible Bangers.
    by yankeeinmemphis on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 02:16:49 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    I agree, and I disagree (none / 0)

    I agree we should keep our focus on the ground.  And we have a lot of encouraging things to see there.  But I disagree strongly that "biography" doesn't matter.  It matters a lot.  We live in the culture of biography and story.  The Swift Boats were so powerful because they told an interesting story.  Everything has a story, and part of politickin' these days learning how to tell yours in a way that everyone can identify with.  Ignoring the important role biography plays I think is as ignorant as arguing biography is determinative on its own.  Juan Cole's post today is all about biography.  As for generating some bigger ideas, I think the folks at amendmentnine are beginning to do these that.  So far their preview seems pretty compelling.  check out the preview of big ideas at:

    http://amendmentnine.blogspot.com

    by flavorflav12 on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 10:07:10 PM EST

    Knowing is half the battle (none / 0)

    I think its important to teach people about a lot of things, not just what it means to be liberal.  These blogs and political web sites are great.  I'm an average citizen that was willing to do research on the web to see whats going on. But most people aren't.  My brother is a small businessman and nurse.  He's smart but he has no clue how evil Bush is and doesn't care to find out.  He has a business to run.  Of course when I tell him whats going on he just looks at me funny.  I think its important to show people who really has control of the Republican party.  Right now some of them certainly see Bush for what he is, but vote for him anyway because they think he will get them what they want in the short term.  The problem is that right now the damage that is being done is long term.   Why is it people don't know what being liberal means (I don't fully)  Its because its been too long since they knew firsthand what real problems are.  The civil rights movement is history.  The problems the New Deal helped solve are history.  The Great Depression is long gone.  Vietnam was 30 years ago and some people don't like the History Channel.  People don't know why certain things are important.  How does it help the economy to give people money to get them through to their next job? You have to be willing to educate those swing voters about what the other side is doing.  And do it in a way that helps them come to the same conclusion that it is evil without seeming to be a group of fear mongers in the process.  I believe that education is what people need.  

    -I think its important to tell people how a bill becomes law. Why?  To diffuse all the flip flopper charges.  You're dealing with a population of predominantly ignorant people (especially in the South...I'm a southerner...if Florida counts)  It will also help to diffuse the attacks by those that say he voted for this and against that.  You may very well have a senator running for President but you will also need to defend incumbant senators in the future.  Their tactics will filter through all of the races, not just for President.  Attacking the attack is pointless.  They won't believe you.  But if they know up front how things work they can figure out on their own that the attacks are bogus.  In the process you can stay on the positive side.

    - I think its important to describe the tactics Bushites use in both the media and their advertisements.  They use the same keywords over and over again until people believe them.  How many times do they use the phrase, "We're making progress".  Why do they call the enemy terrorists, deadenders, anti-Iraqi forces?  Why do they use terms like "weapons of mass murder" or "homicide bombers"?  Why do they have soldiers sitting behind the President as he speaks? I know why, but a lot of people are mind numbingly stupid.  Note when they start using these words and phrases, publish their own talking points and make it clear as day that they are trying to use people.  Phychological tricks break down under the light of day.

    -Somehow explain to people just what is going on right now on capital hill.  Democrats are locked out, lobbyists create the bills and they get passed verbatim.  Sure it gets in the press but people need it drilled in their skull that this is dangerous and wrong. Where is debate?  Where is TRUE compromise and leadership?  Why is any of that important?

    -Teach people how totalitarian (and in my view fascist) governments can come to power even from the midst of a democracy.  If you yell FASCISTS! you look like a nut. I feel like one:) If you teach people what fascism is (or whatever this is that Karl Rove has going on) then maybe they'll get a clue on their own.  You don't look like a nut in the process.

    Basically write down all of their dirty tricks and expose them.  Don't do it after the campaign starts.  Do it before and make it an ongoing process.  Yes, commercials in off year are the way to go.  How to fund them is another story.  Slight of hand only works when the audience doesn't know whats coming.  Teach people the tactics.  Once they know whats going on they'll put two and two together.  

    I don't think Democrats should change.  This country doesn't need another Republican party.  Well, maybe you could drop taking peoples assault guns away (mine are to protect against this country going completely off track)  but thats another issue.  We need to teach others just what morons they really are for voting for Bush and in the process not call them morons.  It just turns them off.

    [I say "we" but I'm not registered Democrat.  I'm going to stay Independent because thats where my views are.  But at the same time, right now, I know the only salvation for this country is the Democratic Party.  If you don't get this right it doesn't matter what my views are.]

    "So this is how liberty dies...to thunderous applause." Padme, Star Wars Episode III
    by jrflorida on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 10:21:08 PM EST

    Re: Knowing is half the battle (none / 0)

    I agree with most of what you are saying.  Education is the main way to battle disinformation.  People are reasonable, and of native intelligence. We just need to communicate effectively, through effective channels. It means not just publishing blogs and NYTs etc, but going door to door, neighborhood after neighborhood, to do the same.  Local programs on public radios and public televisions is one mechanism.  Charriatable cause drives - eg toys for children, clothing for needy, good will shops, service in Hospice are opportunities to serve and be recognized as a block of democrats. Then we get a stage to talk.

    I also agree with another point. We need to have emlightened the electorate of the policy-making process, well before the elections begin.  I mean, now, for 2006 Governor and Senator elections.

    by guna on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 11:07:36 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Back to basics (none / 0)

    The first thing the Democratic Party must do is to stop running away from the word liberal. Liberals have drug conservatives, kicking and screaming, into the future since time immortal. We have good reason to be proud of being liberal. After all we no longer live in caves hunting with spears pining over the "good ol days."

    Second we must stop letting Republican Conservatives narrowly define "values" and "morals." This can only be done through vigorous discussion where we define an overarching construct (of values and morals) relevant to all people. We must demonstrate the relationship of our values and morals to this ideal and the relationship of the ideal to conservatives values and morals.

    Finally, we must never ignore Conservative hypocracy. Many of their practices are at odds not only with their own notion of values and morality but also with the ideal. They have been given a free pass for far too long.

    by PhilTR on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 10:22:50 PM EST

    Re: Back to basics (none / 0)

    Well said. 1, 2, 3.

    Define, condemn, and expose.

    by Green Irishboy on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 12:20:59 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Strategy and Tactics (none / 0)

    For what it is worth, I, like everyone else believes that we need to better strategize communication, but not simply at the level of mass media. Like it or not we need to look at the evangelicals as an example of long term courtship. The Republicans stratgeically set out to get this group and it is well documented how they did it. Their mobilization through "gay marriage bans" was strictly tactical, but the two do not exist without one another. Tactics like the marriage ban may look like a gimmick, but I think of it as an opportunity that only arises when you have made long-term stratgeic investments.

    By the way, I think we have much of this investment happening right now and it is happening through blogs and thinktanks. Organizations like ACT, ACORN and MoveOn have not even reached their potential. This is where we need to strategize since they will give the Democrats and progressives institutions that better articulate a passion for community. Party politics are not dead, but parties are interested in power. One of the things that unions did throughout the late 19th and a good portion of 20th century was articulate a place in the community. One went to the union to not only negotiate with your boss, but it involved picnics, bowling nights, dances, halls, etc. The reason the dems were able to effectively win from the 1930s to the late 1970s was through the strategic affiliation with unions. Union politics are not dying but they are no longer enough for they no longer form a large enough basis for a social experience. All one needs to do is visit one non-denominational Christian church to understand that these places are places for fellowship and these are the only places for many people to find it. Go to a Vineyard and you will find dances, coffee bars, mens groups, etc. And these are good people. I know many and they are my friends. But they voted Bush not only because he speaks their language but we have not built places where we may be able to demonstrate, through fellowship, the values of which we speak. I think MoveOn and ACT are two places where this could happen. If you ask me what the most interesting moment of this campaign was, it was the MoveOn bakesale to beat Bush. I met people I had never met before and it meant something to me that I was in association with alll kinds of people in my community.

    I think MoveOn would work the best for me if we were organized in a precinct-by-precinct basis and were mobilized in a large, nationalized manner in terms of elections. We could meet in our houses, go bowling, have pot lucks and be friends as well as activists. The reasons that evangelicals are good recruits is that they are good friends. I hate to say this, but politicians just aren't. We need to build organizations of community precisely cause this is where we best express our values through deeds. A union strike is a deed! A mission is a deed! I think of MoveOn as having done a good job spreading ideas and making connections and now we need to ask, what are the deeds we need to accomplish in our communities? Are they to provide the basis of grass roots campaigns that could serve as examples?  Are they to establish a more robust citizenship through local activities such as local fundraisers for a community center? I dunno. I just know that after this campaign I feel a connection to my fellow activists I have never ever felt before unless they were my friends before. Now I am convinced that I am friends with all of the activists I worked with on a one-on-one basis and could become friends with those that worked with in a tangential manner. This, I must admit, is a profound feeling and it came through working with ACT and MoveOn and not the Democratic Party. I think we need to explore this issue of passionate affiliations rather than issues even deeper...

    by Loganpoppy on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 10:27:59 PM EST

    Let's not give up on the reddest states (none / 0)

    It makes total sense to focus on securing our still wobbly blue states and turning the purplest our way but I would suggest that we owe it to our brethren living in the redder states not to give up on them completely.  Even in the reddest states, at least a quarter of the voters diligently trotted out to the polls knowing their vote would amount to little in the Presidential race.  Kerry was painted as an elitist and Dems to some degree in general have been labelled as such.  I certainly worry that people on the coasts (I am one), where much of our base is, have too great a tendency to engage in blanket assessment of those in the so-called "fly-over" states (e.g., I have heard that term way too much).  The fact is, we need to work to increase the appeal of progressive policies in EVERY SINGLE STATE.  Sure, the message will need to take into account local issues but I think we have something to offer everywhere.  Yes, we should write off the unredeemable racists and bigots, write off the super greedy, write off the mindless zealots (I'm fine with writing off the mindless zealots on the extreme left too even though I'm damn near there in my ideals), write off the war-mongerers, and even write-off those who vote Republican because they always have and always will (gotta support the team!) but what's left is a true and solid majority.  To get to that majority, as others have suggested, requires us to focus on the ground up, not the top down.  I realize the former is more difficult, requires more people and more money than the latter but thanks to the current administration we have never been in a better position to muster such forces.          

    As an aside, in surveying a number of different blogs in the last few days, I'm heartened by the fact that a large percentage of people have shaken off the hit so quickly and appear extremely committed to moving forward.  As we all know, the next 4 years will be a challenge, dark days ahead surely.  But Bush now completely owns his mess and I say we give him plenty of rope (of course we may not have much choice) while we toil about our business of taking back the country.    

    by cthulhu on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 10:29:28 PM EST

    Chris... (none / 0)

    You responded to one of my comments on daily kos saying much the same thing, so I assume this article is directed towards me in part. I started musing aloud about Mark Warner from Virginia, but my train of thought is more complex rather than just trying to cherry-pick certain candidates to pick off battleground states.

    I wrote a longer entry about this at my weblog. When trying to identify what went wrong, I came to the same general thought as you did in your "part one" a few entries back. In short, I split the what-went-wrong arguments into three parts:

    • Marketing - our ability to reach the voters we targeted
    • Product - the strength of our policy package and platform
    • Target Audience - the voters we targeted

    We're all bandying about thoughts on all these points, but I am one to believe that it was our target audience that was the real failure. We turned out our base fine, and we got moderates just fine. I also think our product is good - I don't see the need to abandon our stance on gay rights or stem-cell research or pro-choice or whatever. But, we put ourselves in a position where we could do everything right, and still lose if the other side did everything right too, and that's exactly what happened - we didn't reach for a wide enough audience.

    So, I believe we want to reach for a wider audience without compromising our product. And in my mind, the biggest group of voters that we didn't reach were the voters that didn't vote on policy grounds, and instead voted on impression. Their impression of the candidate, the man - the gut check judgment.

    So, it comes down to the candidate. We need a candidate that will appeal to a wider swath of voters - and he needs to do that through simple charisma and bearing, not through some rejiggered Democratic platform. Our side doesn't have an apathy problem. Our product is quality. We just need a candidate that appeals to more voters - voters in the midwest and south and so on. That's why I wondered aloud about Mark Warner - not just out of an attempt to strategically pick off Virginia. I was reacting to the news that appealing to voters in the midwest and west might lead to more likely positive results than appealing to voters in the south.


    by tunesmith on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 10:36:54 PM EST

    P.S. (none / 0)

    Just get real.
    by Bean on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 11:16:54 PM EST

    The Vision Thing (3.00 / 2)

    We're getting there. The discussion is frank, insightful, energetic. Lots of pieces of good ideas flowing through the site. My question is -- and I think all of our questions are the same -- what pulls these pieces together? What's the gist of it? Listened this morning to an NPR interview with a sweet-sounding conservative Christian mom. The interviewer asked her if she was able to sum up why she voted for Bush, was there an overarching theme that had grabbed her? She didn't have to think for a nanosecond. Absolutely, she said. It is the vow to protect and defend "a culture of life" (her words). And she was able to pull out the sub-themes packed into the phrase: abortion, nurturing families, neighborliness, stable marriages, responsibility -- and then made the quick connection to the war on terror as a defense of that understanding of life. She has a vision of the life she wants that is crystal clear to her and makes absolute sense, BOTH emotionally and intellectually, and she could articulate it in a four word phrase that was not a slogan but an emotionally charged symbol.

    I've been thinking about her all day. I think she's worth using as a foil for thinking about our situation. I think she would say something like this to the middle/left: "You know your problem? You guys don't believe in anything BIG. Your platform is a makeshift little raft on a roiling sea built out of little pandering twigs you try to lash together to win elections: condoms, a two dollar raise, trees, and spotted owls. And you know what else? When you do defend something with a little passion it's stuff that kills innocent babies, defends the rights of people to pump filth into our kids' minds, and rebukes us for believing in God."

    With her vision of life in one hand, caught in a four word phrase, and her vision of us in the other, caught in graphic images, she can go to her neighbors and say with passion and conviction: Vote against Kerry.

    Our core problem is NOT that we have to convince her that Bush will sell her, her kids, and her neighbors down the river to the highest corporate bidder. (He surely will, and she may not even know it until it's very late.) Our core problem is that we don't have what she wants: a coherent, convincing, emotionally charged vision of life. Wait, I take that back. I think we DO have it, but can't or won't articulate it. We are left stuttering because the only language still remaining to voice a coherent, convincing, emotionally charged vision of life is religious language. This drives all of us crazy who believe precisely in the VALUES of secular culture, who know the horrors unleashed in theocracies, and who want a world of justice, tolerance, and peace.

    The reason we reach for gimmicky solutions is that we are caught stuttering. That was our problem in Ohio (leaving aside the real problem of Ohio's ballots). The choice before them was the promise of health insurance or meaning for their lives. Facing the possibility of a life without coherent meaning, people will choose a vision over their wallets every time.

    At the end of his/her post at 8:41 above, niku takes a shot at articulating a powerful list of things that are morally wrong. I agree with all of them. I think it's a great start because it's outlining, if from the negative position, something like a coherent vision of life. In an image, what strikes me most about the list is that the items seem to arise from a center, a central hunch about how life ought to go, what makes life work, what makes it worthwhile. What is that center? If we can articulate it, and simplify that articulation to a four word phrase, our electoral force would be unstoppable.

    by Jeff Donner on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 11:27:04 PM EST

    Re: The Vision Thing (none / 0)

    Well said, Jeff.  Though I have to admit that what this woman wants just doesn't exist in the real world, only on TV.  She wants The Answer.  She wants a Phrase which will Sum It All Up.  A Biblical nostrum.  Something that Resonates like her favorite brand of soy milk or those names given to invasions, wars, and battles to make them sound noble.  

    I see what you're saying, but I think we have to do better than that.  To survive in the real world, I think America has to offer a future which is real, palpable, genuine, honest, and attainable, one in which she can play an active part, not just watch from the comfort of a suburban den.  We have to get beyond passivity, God, the "strict father," the daddy-ideal who comes home and Makes Everything Okay.

    by Bean on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 12:09:50 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: The Vision Thing (none / 0)

    As a woman reading what you wrote, I think you are exactly right. And I can see why that woman bought what the GOP sold her. The GOP sums and brands issues like there is no tomorrow. And the dems do sound like some raft of twigs lashed together with kite string. It's just not very appealing.

    We talk about a "fresh start" but we don't say what that is. And anyway, people don't want a fresh start, This party does. Everyday people just want what they've got to get better and make them feel more meaningful.

    by slammers on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 12:54:08 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: The Vision Thing (none / 0)

    I think voting for Bush because you see him as representing a "culture of life" is the most totally Orwellian thing I've heard.

    In Texas this man was the ultimate executioner.  In Iraq he's killed tens of thousands.  He is poisoning our natural resources.

    Okay, those little patched together issues?  That's not what they are at all--they are badly told annecdotes about the real issues underneath.

    Number one, the environment, culture of life, everyone's concern.  We need to articulate this.

    The ability to raise one's family out of poverty, Democratic issue, we own it, we should be able to articulate this one too.

    My point is, if anyone sees Bush as representing a culture of life, either their take on what constitutes life is skewed, or our ability to put forth a message about respect for life is badly messed up.  Again, it's the language, and the Republicans have ownership of the words and phrases that Americans like that sweet lady, have a knee-jerk reaction to.

    I drive around with a Kerry sticker on my car and a choose life sticker.  I'm against the death penalty, for the rights of workers, personally against abortion, although I don't think that can be legislated.  I see environmental degradation as the number one issue over the next twenty years.  I see this election as the first in a long time that the party went back to its core message of making sure all of the people of this country were seen.  I think Kerry is an extraordinary man, a progressive who knows when to compromise and on what issues you simply never do.

    The message of the Republican party supports a kind of smugness in its base, just as the message of the Democratic party had been starting to promote a smugness about liberal social change.  

    The real message is more basic.  The real message applies to everyone.  There is a story here we are not telling very well, and we need to figure out why--but again, it's not content, it's how we tell it.

    by mady on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 08:47:53 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: The Vision Thing (none / 0)

    well, said I tghink I may have stated in one of my dairies, We need talk in terms of morality.  Like Don't say we want to give tax the rich, say we want those whop have more, live up to their moral obligations and help those who are less fortunate, and need our help.
    by likesun on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 10:21:21 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: The Vision Thing (none / 0)

    With the environment, we need pragmatism, not purity.  Finding an endangered species on your property should be a happy thing not a nightmare.

    Closing down national forests isn't the answer, sustainable logging is.

    There are more jobs in a clean environment and in environmental restoration, and in renewable energy than in extraction.  We need to articulate that.

    We need to accept the hunters and the work they do with land preservation.

    High County News is a good journal on the new west and working with landowners.

    by beeste on Sat Nov 06, 2004 at 01:26:20 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: The Vision Thing (none / 0)

    Empathetic Democrat & Compassionate Conservative!

    DuvalDem's Diary's statement: "one has to first understand the obstacle that stands before us:  the basic concept of conservative religious doctrine"

    I agree wholeheartedly that we must understand the bunch that just defeated us, and I don't mean the RNC generals, I mean the army of volunteers who worked for years to gain victory Tuesday night:  those we keep referring to as the Religious Right.

    For many in the Religious Right,
    New Life has the highest value (anti-abortion) and Sacrificing Life in Service of Our Country has the highest value (war to avenge or defend).

    For many of us who spent childhoods in rural Texas and then left, it is often difficult to recall that in much of that rural `tradition' - violence is a value.

    Strength and stubbornly standing your ground are values. Giving your word as bond is a value - never doubting that one's word once given will change - is a deeply held value.

    Guns are valued.

    Forget the Bible verses they might quote you. If we do not understand the foundation and personal histories these values rest on, we will lose again in the future to this same group living in predominately less populated, rural counties, small towns, and certain suburban areas.

    Although I agree that Gay Marriage and Abortion are the primary wedge issues - I am here to suggest it that we did not lose on Gays & God only - we also lost on Guns. We lost because we are perceived as weak on Defense. Remember DuKakis? Remember Jimmy Carter? Bush pounded Kerry as weak on defense - a Liberal voting against bills to fund the military over 30 years time.

    For generations we have been perceived as such, and we will continue to be so until we understand the value in violence they hold dear.

    I keep forgetting that fact over and over again because I read too many books and newspapers. I've lived too long in a highly sophisticated, urban/suburban area. I moved to the city as a young adult. As a life-long Democrat, I have developed sensibilities about non-violence, fairness and tolerance that I perceive as my highest values. My daughter is gay, and I fear the consequences of the bigotry directed at her and her beloved partner and my grandchild they cherish together. All of us are deeply Christian. We look inward and outward in The Spirit.

    I know many in the Religious Right find sexuality a fearsome enemy even when it is heterosexuality that drives their own desire and often their own misdeeds. They fear it because it may lead to both depravity and personal ruin. Homosexuality is again a depravity both feared and reviled, just as a black marrying a white was feared and reviled 20 years ago. Homosexuality or racially-mixed marriage may not be in their personal sphere of experience but it is feared and reviled - and so is the "plague" of AIDS. All this is simply unfathomable for them.

    Yet when you live close to Traditional Values (in rural or suburban areas), you may be Christian, Religious Right, or prefer irregular church attendance, if at all. I think Traditional Values is less "about Religion" than it is "about simple daily life" in rural or some suburban areas. Bush often refers to himself as a `simple guy.'

    There are many traditions stemming from the agricultural past: cycles of planting and harvest, slaughter of animals, and other necessary things requiring one's participation in the violence done to "living things" to maintain family livelihoods. Far too many of us in "Blue" geographies forget that violence is a necessary part of the whole in human existence.

    In fact, we also forget that `spare the rod and spoil the child' is somewhat of a golden rule to those on the Right - or we forget that the whip tames the horse or drives cattle to behave according to our will.  Earlier this year in New Jersey there was a planned hunt of wild black bears. It was done under court order to weed out well-documented overpopulation resulting from successful endangered species protection. It was demonstrated against by animal lovers. Yet, as a news story on the subject told, animal lovers were forgetting those who lived in rural areas with small children in danger. See how convoluted it becomes? Can't we better understand the "Liberal Elite" label might have some validity? I am an animal lover and yet even I could see the arrogance of the position of the demonstrators. Rather than compassionate conservative, can we be the Empathetic Democrat? Surely, children have a higher value than bears.

    As for the violence of intolerance, I forget also about how rural life demands that we "stand" against those strangers who would steal our cattle or watermelons from the fields. Most men who chased and caught the thieves were held up as models of virtue. Standing up for family and sending sons to avenge Pearl Harbor forms the basis of our current "Traditional Values." Yet this too can breed the intolerance of strangers or the fear of differing cultural values.

    I recently attended the opening ceremonies for a war memorial in a very small town in Texas, similar to the Viet Nam "wall" war memorial. All the "sons" of the county were honored there who have died in service in the Spanish American War, Civil War, WWI, WWII, Korea, Viet Nam, Desert Storm, etc. It was a very moving experience. My family had 7 names listed there. I could not escape the deep feelings of reverence for the hundreds of names I saw that day on those granite slabs. That reverence is real, and is a vital part of the virtue in violence.

    For those of us who are not more than one generation or a couple of hundred of miles away from our agricultural roots, we need to search our memories and find our empathy. We have to get closer to those who still live in the rural realities of beliefs that protect their way of life and their reverence for sacrifices made. We must understand what they hold dear: their family and the continuation of all they value. We can not educate, mock or shame them into changing to these deeply held values.

    Empathy is a bridge to Understanding.

    We need to find a way to talk about non-violence and tolerance and service to the wider world.

    Yet we must understand the need to hold Traditional Values in respect, and "Build A Bridge Of Empathy between Blue and Red Realities.

    by GreyLion on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 06:29:00 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    No More Blue State/Red States (3.00 / 0)

    No one seems to point out the biggest problem the way elections are held in this country.
    The elemination of the Electoral College should be made one of the top priorities of the Democratic party or I for one will leave it and vote with the Green Party who have already called for its elimination.
    With no Electoral College there will be no more Blue States or Red States just one America as it should be. Having the Red State vs Blue state debate does nothing but divide and seperate us instead of focusing on the issues that concern us all.
    I want a President that represents the whole country not just parts of it. The name Democratic means the people rule. With the Electoral College the people do not, the interests of the smaller over represented states (in the EC) are. The President represents (or should) the people of the US not the States.
    Without this reform we will never be able to move forward as a nation.

    I welcome any comments anyone may have.

    by WAProgressive on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 11:39:09 PM EST

    Re: No More Blue State/Red States (none / 0)

    Might as well demand the day have 25 hours.  It ain't going to happen.  Those who gain power because of the electoral college will use that power forever to maintain that power.  It's part of the landscape.  Perhaps if Kerry had gotten those 150000 votes in Ohio and won with a minority of the popular vote, the Republicans might have felt the other end of the stick and a bipartisan movement to do what you suggest might have been possible.  But no, it didn't.

    I don't see the logic of your point.  How is jumping to the Greens going to solve this problem.

    by sTiVo on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 06:43:11 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: No More Blue State/Red States (none / 0)

    When something as important as having a democratic election that reflects the true view of the people and that the party that you previously participate no longer sees this as important then I no longer want to have any association with it.
    I will go with any party that supports this,even George Bush and the Republicans, which is highly unlikely.
    I am sick and tired of people fighting over how to gain a few EC votes just to win an election.
    You must stand for something not just win an election. This is not some sport in which we win and they lose. Without this change we all lose.
    by WAProgressive on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 09:50:43 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: No More Blue State/Red States (none / 0)

    Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, Franklin Rooselvelt, LBJ and others won with the electoral college.  It is not impossible for progressive candidates to win under this system.  I understand holding to the ideal of one man/one vote but fighting that battle- that we are not going to win- jeopardizes our ability frame a compelling progressive argument that can win elections.  

    Keep in mind that progressivism builds on itself and we need to be in power to enact these changes.

    by Preston on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 11:02:59 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: No More Blue State/Red States (none / 0)

    I understand that the elimination of the EC will not happen soon or come easily, but it is a long term goal I feel that must be followed.
    Any worthwile goal is worth going after.
    The democrats may even lose the first election held without the EC but it is the principle of each individual's vote have the same importance.

    The original topic was to get away from gimmicks, the EC is the biggest gimmick there is in American politics. There will never be true democracy in this country until it is eliminated.

    I have read that many people feel that the Democrats need to stand for something.
    Standing up for democratic rights should be one of the ways to seperate us from Republicans.
    They seem to not want everyone to vote.
    Let the world see the Republicans as the undemocratic people that they truly are when they don't support it's elimination while the Democrats and others do.

    People appreciate those that are committed to a cause and will not quit until the goal has been achieved.  The British did not just give Americans their independence we had to fight for it.  Americans were looked up to by people all over the world when they achieved independence from the greatest empire in the world. It had never been done before. It has been said that it is impossible to eliminate the EC, but I say it is not, and now is the time the process to eliminate it begins. It may take a 100 years or more but it is one of the most worth goals I can think of.

    by WAProgressive on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 11:41:28 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: No More Blue State/Red States (none / 0)

    I don't really understand why you think removing the electoral college will have a big effect on American politics.  Granted, I might get to see some campaign ads here in MA, but when Bush lost in 00 it was only by half a mil.  Pretty close to the will of the people.  Presidential politics has always seemed fairly nationally targeted even if all the campaigning takes place in a few states.  Could you elaborate on what you think will be the effect of eliminating the EC?  Thanks
    by Adam on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 01:02:16 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: No More Blue State/Red States (none / 0)

    The elimination of the EC would make the campagin for president about issues that concern the majority of the people. The way the EC is set it is possible to win the White House with a substantial minority vote by getting the states with small populations. Just three states with 3 EC votes = 9 votes, 6 of these votes are due to 2 from each state. California could have more than double these states in population but only gets 2 votes not the 12 it could get if it was divided into smaller states.

    It is unfair that people who live in rural areas seem to have more influence than those who live in cities.(in proportion to their numbers)  It is harder to eliminate farms subsidies but not it seems apparently not helping educate the poor in the inner cities, with programs like Head Start. Why are there needs more important?  Change how campaigns are run and the issues the candidates will run on will sooner or later change.

    The smaller states still have a voice in the House of Representatives. There are plenty of these districts that have votes that the districts with urban populations will need to get legislation passed. That is the way politics works, you scratch my back I'll scratch yours.
    May not be fair but that is the way life works.

    by WAProgressive on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 04:18:33 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: No More Blue State/Red States (none / 0)

    Well, I get the math, but I'm just not sure it has a huge impact on policies.  The Senate is still based on geography, and you'll never get rid of farm subsidies for that reason.  And Florida, Ohio, etc. are states with large urban populations.
    by Adam on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 04:27:07 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: No More Blue State/Red States (none / 0)

    There are many times I think that the way Congress is organized is a mistake.
    The Senate should consider itself with the larger issues of the nation such as international relations and confirmation of Federal appoitments. All other issues should be done bye the House, how tax money is spent, etc. They should each concern themselves with their own areas an not be required to get both the Senate and the House to agree before legislation is passed.

    Many good laws are killed or watered down because the two sides can not agree.
    It may not be a popular idea but perhaps it is something that should be looked into as something that should be changed.

    Nebraska has only one legislative chamber and they seem to get laws passed without the government falling apart.

    by WAProgressive on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 05:42:28 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Bush giving the middle finger (none / 0)

    Why don't you post this on the main site?  Here is the man who appealed to the right wing Christians...wonder if they would like to see this?  Hypocrite..
    http://media.ebaumsworld.com/bushuncensored.wmv
    by selvdstrukt on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 11:43:13 PM EST

    future strategies (none / 0)

    Lots of soul-searching and interesting analyses being put forward in this awful aftermath. Hopefully, we will reap the benefits of this process in years to come. At the moment there is much focus on theories of why Kerry lost or Bush won - from the Values people to the Shifting Electorate people. But let us not lose sight of , nor ever forget the real reason why Bush and his cronies barely won - Bush and Rove ran the most vitriolic and despicable national campaign in living memory! There were no limits to how low they were willling to stoop. It is stunning that they were willing to poison the body politic to the extent they did, or manipulate the nation's post-9/11 fears, irregardless of any basic sense of responsibility! And they were able to pursue this appalling campaign with barely a whimper from the so-called national media. I have never seen anything like it! It reminds me of the kind of election tactics one would expect in the new "democracies" in Eastern Europe and Russia.
    I have no doubt that this horrendous fear-mongering and it's impact on certain parts of the electorate was the crucial difference in this election. This is the situation we all should be examining at the moment. I hope people have not become so jaded that we just shrug off this kind of electioneering as "normal" or in any way acceptable. Candidates for national political office should never be allowed to get away with those despicable tactics again! Politicians should be held accountable for their behavior!  The relevant question is how do we make them accountable?
    If we do not attempt to deal with this issue, then we can expect repetitions of the same kind of tactics over and over. Republicans have no qualms in using them - remember the "kicking of the commie can"? How do we prepare the electorate to reject this kind of political hooliganism?
    by disgusted on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 11:52:32 PM EST

    The "Noise Machine" (none / 0)

    It is not time to build a "Left Wing Noise Machine."  If you build a "Left Wing Noise Machine" then all you get is more noise.  The vast majority of Americans won't be listening.  

    Let me remind you that FOX news never gets more than a 5-10 percent of viewers.  That means between 90-95 percent don't watch them.

    What they do is control the debate.  The reason they do is OTHER MEDIA let FOX set the agenda because they have come up with such a "large" audience.

    FOX's success is based on branding.  They are so well branded.  The brand is consistant with all Murdock's publications and broadcast.  It is lowest common demoninator.  It is all sex and violence on the entertainment side and Murder and Mayhem, the sky is falling on the news side.

    The solution is to NOT watch or read or support advertisers of any of Murdock's stations, networks and newspapers.  Hold them accountable.  Look at the success that was obtained against Sinclair.

    There is a political solution as well.  We need to lobby congress to dismantle media ownership. This may a pipe dream considering that the Repubs are in power, but the fight needs to be waged.  Maybe this is a place to use trial lawyers.  There can probably be a legal challenge made to media consolidation and monopoly of the PUBLIC airwaves.  

    This can also be done by challenging liscenses of all FOX stations.

    We need to DEMAND that the media stop doing "PRESS RELEASE" journalism.  This is mainly a broadcast problem.  Newspapers seem to be better at enterprise journalism.  We need to lobby the press to live up to thier responsibility.  Insist through letters to the editors, advertising pressure and public commentary that their voices be netural and that they don't accept what is being told to them as news.  We get the media we deserve.

    We need to insist that the press stop covering the "horse race" and start covering the election. I am so tired of "he said/she said" so called debate.  I think we have to stop spinning and start telling the truth, even when it hurts.
    No one ever hears the truth anymore, we just hear the spin.

    If some network would just commit to asking the tough questions and seeking the truth, how refreshing would that be?

    We don't need another "Noise Machine."  We need to stop the noise so the truth can be heard.

    by vmckimmey on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 11:54:37 PM EST

    Re: The "Noise Machine" (none / 0)

    Someone else suggested a variation on this idea I just really love. Boycott Red businesses.

    If they are known supporters or contributors to the Radical Right, go down the block to their competitors. I think the list will be long, but hitting them in their pocketbooks helps our cause, too.

    Let's demonize their cause and expose it for what it is. I emphasize the cause, not the people. I don't hate Republicans. I hate what the Republican party has done to my country and what the Radical Right is taking it.

    by Green Irishboy on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 12:28:44 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    yes and no (none / 0)

    Yes, we are changing the electorate, mobilizing new voters, and-- this is my favorite part-- fielding our candidates and winning downticket races (MN, CO, OR, even NC). This strategy will make us stronger and stronger if can keep pursuing it-- outside the South. Inside the South, we got crushed last night, and the weight of our New England candidate (plus gay marriage) dragged down promising statewide candidates in OK, MO, FL, NC, and elsewhere. If we are going to get our message across in this part of the country, we need a messenger who can get in the door. And the "part" includes half of Ohio-- it's too big for us to keep writing it off. This election tested the theory that a Dem could write off the South and win-- we did so many other things right... and still lost. Finding a candidate who can speak to the South isn't a "gimmick"-- it's a necessity. And it goes with (it doesn't compete against) alll the other programs you folks are describing. We need need need a candidate from a Southern or border state next time.
    by accommodatingly on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 12:09:04 AM EST

    Re: yes and no (none / 0)

    Now yer talkin'!

    By the way, why was the convention held in Boston?  What other cities were considered?  St. Louis?  Omaha?  Atlanta or New Orleans?

    by Bean on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 12:15:34 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Sometimes youve gotta lose before you can win (none / 0)

    Remember Goldwater? He lost when the Democrats "smeared" him over being a right-winger, though he was a better man and a better leader than LBJ. That loss inspired a whole generation of Republicans who saw his vision and worked for 40 years to put it into place, which they will do in the next 4 years.

    Look at Nader, he was reviled by the Dems becasue he put "values" before winning, and now, two days after the "win before values" strategy ran out of gas, he is still standing.

    I am not a Democrat, I simply fear the Nixonite fascists living in the host of the Republican party. Supporting you is all I could do. Now that is over. A watershed moment has occured and now we must all look to the future.

    The world is global. America is approaching 25% of the world's wealth and power from a peak of 50% after WWII. In time that will reach 5%, as we have 5% of the world's population, and Americans are no better than anybody else. This election signals the end of America as a "special" nation. People don't want to be the guiding force of the world anymore. They want to be simple folk. People of goodwill need to look beyond the dynamics and needs of one country and expand their horizons to the whole world.

    One of the reasons the left is getting slaughtered in America is that most of our philosophers have been thinking in these "un-American" terms for generations. The party hacks, like Cahill and Lockhart, have no wise men to guide them. They can only think tactically.

    Any grand vision of a progressive points him or her NECCESARILY towards global unity. What else can progress mean? Notice how the blue states are facing the world at large? If you live in LA, you're closer to Beijing than you are to Utah. If you live in NYC you're closer to Paris than you are to Kentucky.

    The "red" people are afraid of their loss of status in this new world. The world ISNT white. The world ISNT christian, the world IS a reality. That is why they are so adamant about living in the past, living in nostalgia, living in faith.

    If you want to build a political movement that supports your values, don't limit yourself to one nation, but build one that benefits all people regardless of what side of the line they are on.

    by Paul Goodman on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 12:22:26 AM EST

    Re: Sometimes youve gotta lose before you can win (none / 0)

    So... maybe we should start talking to some of the left in other countries about coordinating strategies?

    Does anyone do this? I think the Green party sort of does, but I don't know if we do... I mean, I'm pretty sure the Labor party in the UK shares most of our values and is appalled by American fundamentalists...

    by Green Irishboy on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 12:31:14 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Yada yada (none / 0)

    Here is the DLC's take on recent events.
    by Bean on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 12:23:39 AM EST

    IDEAS...IDEAS..IDEAS..THEN IMPLEMET PILOT PROGRAMS (none / 0)

    REACH OUT...REACH OUT...REACH OUT...POLL...POLL..

    POLL...

    An idea and I respect Tipper Gore but she was

    able to tap into the culture back when she

    realized x-rated lyrics were invading into the

    household and parents felt powerless.

    Parents really do feel powerless in these days

    and times and the people in the so called

    culture wars resent hearing "just turn the

    channel" "or you should be a good parent"

    Idea and this idea we can help parents in the

    area of the Internet..I would love to see

    someone like Tipper Gore present this.

                    Title:Saturation of Internet

                               Pornography

    and how the internet should be viewed as

    a community and that Pornography really has

    over reached and has tentacles all over the

    community when in fact it should have its own

    district with rules and guidelines.This so

    called "red light district" must keep its

    distance from the rest of the community....

    We as moral liberals should champion how

    we should table what to do about the over

    saturation of Pornography in our commuinity.

    Pornography really does disrespect the spirit

    of love and really disrepects women.

    Sex really is a drug and can be abused just

    like alchohol.  Anyway just a beginning

    we must beat the Republicans to the punch

    on this one and so called reasonable

    moderate and evangelical leaders would come

    and listen...It would be a start ...we could

    show that we do respect them in areas...

    I do not like the way Rovian politics has

    played these people like a drum...we can do

    better...these people in the evangelical world

    got organized and put people in office they

    did not use violence ..in other words they

    played by the rules...I think we can learn

    from Tipper Gore we need to sit down with

    free speech advocates and say there is room

    for compromise and place moral values high

    on the list to protect parents ,family and

    children ..and that the Porn cash cow must

    take a seat a little farther back.

    by Aslanspal on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 12:55:02 AM EST

    Sorry (none / 0)

    If you do this, I will no longer be a Dem.  I'll start voting Libertarian.  This is not a helpful idea.  Free speech means all speech, even stuff that is "harmful to minors".
    by Geotpf on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 04:03:46 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Sorry (none / 0)

    IF YOU DO NOTHING ITS THE NEXT ROVIAN

    TACTIC...THERE IS ROOM FOR US TO GET

    IN FRONT OF THIS ISSUE AND I AM NOT

    EXCLUDING ANYONE...I THINK AT THE TABLE

    PEOPLE LIKE YOU WOULD BE HEARD..BUT I THINK

    ALSO WE MUST DO SOME VALUE BASED IDEAS OUT

    THERE FOR PARENTS,FAMILYS, AND CHRISTIANS

    WHO FEEL WE ARE THE EVIL EMPIRE...

    I AM NOT ADVOCATING DRACONIAN MEASURES

    I AM ADVOCATING THAT SOMETHING LIKE THE

    SATURATION OF INTERNET PORN (YOU CANNOT DISAGREE

    WITH THAT) BE PUT INTO A PLACE FOR PEOPLE TO

    GO IF THEY WANT TO GO...AS IT IS IN THE \

    INTERNET COMMUNITY IT IS EVERYWHERE ANY

    GOOGLE SEARCH EVEN WITH FILTER YOU GET JUNK.

    SO WHAT IS YOUR IDEA TO DO NOTHING OR WHAT

    DO YOU HAVE ...IF WE DO NOTHING THEN

    WE ARE PUMMELED AGAIN BY VOTERS IN MASS

    SAYING WE ARE FOR PORN EVERYWHERE AND I THINK

    WE ARE NOT.

    by Aslanspal on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 04:21:02 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Our reactions shaping our agenda (none / 0)

    I got into big rollercoaster trouble by reacting to those exit polls on election night with elation only to have it dashed. Now, we all read exit polls where we discover through the swift boat media that "moral issues' were the real driver of the election and evangelicals voted like mad. So now we're all contemplating how to formulate a better "moral/values" message.

    I actually think the guy who wrote about the shrinking economic dominance of the US and our reduction of wealth in the world has hit on the really big issue that's going to grow bigger. It's the economy. Standards of living for lots of folks is gonna be declining. Young people won't be able to find lots of good paying jobs, particularly in red states. That's a bread and butter issue and it's tough to see the solution. The deficit is abstract, but my guess is the coming elections are gonna be all about jobs and dollars and sense, especially after we go down this blind religious right alley. People are going to start noticing how the money is disappearing from their pockets soon. We need to explain this to them in real simple terms. Or have some innovative ideas, industries, and approaches that promise job growth. I think that's one way they sold Stem Cell research in CA. It wasn't just wanting a cure. It was wanting the jobs that go with it.

    by slammers on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 01:29:16 AM EST

    No, the Stem Cell thing passed for two reasons (none / 0)

    1. The Governator was for it.
    2. It was an easy way for California to tell George Bush to go fuck himself.

    by Geotpf on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 04:06:46 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Our reactions shaping our agenda (none / 0)

    I agree with much of what slammers writes in this message.  

    I think, though, that Kerry's proposed ideas to increase job growth in this country struck a lot of people as being a little anemic.  Closing tax loopholes and such just didn't quite get the job done.  (no pun intended)

    Economic anxiety is very real right now, and for good reason, as slammers points out.  Slammers wrote that we need to "have some innovative ideas, industries, and approaches that promise job growth."

    Some questions I would ask:

    What are these ideas, industries, and approaches that promise job growth?

    What can government do to promote and strengthen these industries?

    What can Democrats do to demonstrate to the nation that WE are the ones who care about these issues and that WE are the ones to offer creative and persuasive ideas and solutions?

    Just an example...  the nation is concerned about the threat of terrorism.  There is much work to do to insure that our nation is more secure than it currently is (and I mean in ways other than militarily invading countries).  What if Democrats could find a way to take the fact that "there is work to do" and translate that fact into promoting JOBS that would, in fact, make the country more secure?    

    by toddfrmtx on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 05:12:36 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    A lot of good ideas... (none / 0)

    I'd just like to add, that we're losing the values argument.  Once upon a time, liberalism was the good word, and conservatism was the dirty word.  The generation that remembers the depression, the war against fascism, and civil rights is getting on in age.

    I know we're dealing with complex issues, and we need a way of nice easy to remember soundbites.  The right wing has done a great job in just naming terms, like "death tax", "it's your money", "prolife", etc..  A lot of these terms were developed by Frank Luntz, and coordinated through Newt Gingrich.  The strategy worked.  It allowed them to frame the debate.

    I've come across the work being done at The Rockridge Institute.  They provide quite a few examples of how to reframe the argument, to actually use the right wing's Orwellian language against them.

    by Dick Tuck on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 01:43:50 AM EST

    The future (none / 0)

    "The only way to become more electable is to shift the electorate in our direction."

    No, you can also just do a better job of getting out your voters than the Republicans. Kerry ~almost~ won, as you all know.

    by Mark Fulwiler on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 02:38:12 AM EST

    Re: The future (none / 0)

    I think the future does lie in message.  Every idiot could point to what they thought Bush was in support of but Kerry was a little weaker just like the Dems as a whole.  We need to reaffirm all of our core values.  I think after 4 more horrible years of Dubya, all of those christian freaks are going to BEGGING for some relief.  In America, we have to "dumb" everything down.  We need a Rove.  Do you know what Rove did before working that puppet W?  He was a direct markerter!  That is what the dems need!  We also need to remind all of those Evangelicals that it is not for them to judge gays or abortion, it is for GOD to judge which is what the story of the old black man some posts above illustrates.  Also, that charity is one of the central themes of Christianity.  WWJD?  He wouldn't be with those holy rolling nut jobs.  He would be with the poor and unwanted people, the "untouchables" of our society.  He was a champion of the little guy.  W is just using religion as a shield to create his own Soulent Green for his corporate friends.  I am starting a Catholic Democrats group here in MD because I have strong Catholic values which go against all that Bush stands for.  A true Catholic or any true believer of any religion believes in charity which is something Bush HAS NEVER demostrated.  And the so-called freeing of Iraq doesn't count!  We should heed the words of Teddy Roosevelt's New Nationalism.  Someone on another thread here posted a link and it really does resonate today especially when talking about the corporatizing of America.  And whether we call ourselves liberal or progessive, we should frame our message to everyone who will listen.
    by catholicdemocratmd on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 03:18:47 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: The future (none / 0)

    I forgot to say O'Malley in 2006 for MD governor.  The Baltimore Sun already did a poll to see who would win between Martin O'Malley and that freak Ehrlich, and it was O'Malley.  We WILL take back this state from this increasing Repug threat.  Republican is about to become a dirty word here in MD again.  And Ehrlich refused to campaign for W in MD. HA!
    by catholicdemocratmd on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 03:23:37 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    We done good (none / 0)

    We knocked forty plus points off of the approval rating of a "popular war-time President". We enter a new era where Republicans have all the responsibility for a war that a majority of Americans have declared 'not worth it' and a country that most people claim is 'on the wrong track'.

    Look Kerry didn't close the deal. Maybe nobody could of. But we came close. And there is no reason not to believe that steady exposure to Bush will not cause supporters to drop off one by one.

    We are in a position analogous to 1972. I wasn't voting age yet but I was not exactly super-excited that McGovern didn't even carry his own state. You want some scary Red vs Blue maps? Try this one (which reverses the colors we use, but you'll get the drift):
    http://presidentelect.org/e1972.html
    But by 1974 the whole world had crashed in on Nixon. And the Democratic Party didn't get to that point by abandoning our principles or pandering to swing states. We got there by exposing the stinking cesspool that was the center of the Nixon Administration.

    We can do that again. God knows we have the material. I suspect that Bush will get a small bump on approval from this election but the truth is he has both feet trapped in the quagmire of Messopotamia.

    Krugman had it right today (again) No Surrender.

    Win or lose Bush would have been in power until January 20th anyway. And who knows what a totally unleashed (and probably unhinged) Bush might have done between now and then. Certainly pardons would have been flying like a Montana blizzard and we would never have gotten to the bottom of a slew of criminal plots.

    I am not happy Kerry lost. I fully expected better results from the Senate races. I understand the damage that unchecked Republican control can do in the short run. But they are driving a train whose fiscal engine is running bright red and is rounding a dangerous curve at excessive speed in Iraq. We offered to take the wheel in what may have been a futile effort to keep the train on the tracks. A majority of the passengers refused. Okay then, the responsibility is all theirs. The passengers that is.

    We will get nowhere until the American people turn decisively against Bush. (A Kerry win in a 50/50 result might well have been a disaster. We all know the anger that was manifest on our side for the last four years (and today). Just imagine having a 3.5 million margin and having the results decided on provisional (i.e. challenged) ballots. We would have gone nuts. And we at least tend to put the word "control" somwhere near "gun".)

    We have left the world of ABB. A majority refused to embrace that. We are now in the world of AAB: All About Bush. And most every number shows Bush south of 50. We just need to keep holding the Bush record up for all to see. It's not a pretty picture, we know that, and in the final analysis the American people know that. Hunker down and highlight the headlines. The Truth will Out.

    by Bruce Webb on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 03:38:14 AM EST

    Listening to Black Folks, Hallelujah!! (none / 0)

    Hey everybody,

    I am a black man who lives in Oklahoma. About as deep south as it gets!! I live with the white folks who voted for George Bush in a bigger margin than his home state of Texas!! Makes you think that it has an overwhelmingly Republican, Right! Wrong!! It's Democrat!! I worked as a volunteer in the Brad Carson campaign, and we got clobbered!! Why, it wasn't because Brad was pro-gun, anti-black, anti-latino, pro-god, and hell throw in pro-white (he never brought up the fact he that he was half Cherokee!). He ran as a right wing republican, more republican than John McCain, Rudy Gulliani, and Arnolddd!! The campaign staff and the volunteers busted their butts!!

    We lost because 1) WE DO NOT HAVE A SIMPLE MESSAGE!! (PEOPLE DOWN HERE ARE NOT STUPID, BUT THEY ARE EFFICIENT & PRACTICAL, IF YOU CANNOT ARTICULATE YOUR MESSAGE IN ONE PHRASE, THEY ARE NOT BUYING IT BECAUSE TIME IS MONEY!AND THEY AIN"T GOT MUCH MONEY!) 2) WE DO NOT EVEN BELIEVE IN OWN MESSAGE SO WHY SHOULD WE!! 3) WHITE DEMOCRATS DO NOT LISTEN TO BLACK, HISPANIC, & NATIVE AMERICANS BASE SO WHY SHOULD THEY!!. Folks, it's about listening to peoples concerns not statistics, then developing and presenting a solution with passion!! Democrats would do well to follow THE OLD BLACK MAN FROM DAYTON example! That man knows how to deal with the "ZIGZAG ZELL MILLERS" of the world. The guy knows what he needs to do to win, PERIOD!!

    Now that I went on my rant, here's my solutions: 1) We need to express our view of public policy in terms of faith which is "helping thy neighbor" is to be "my brother's keeper" for example.

    1. You do not run as a republican, because the republican will win everytime. You will not believe how many republicans told me that brad carson was extremely more qualified. But hey, tom coburn was their man, because he believed in GOD, and republicans are GOD's party. Do not let these guys beat us with fear, You have to combat fear tactics with an "AGGRESSIVE & INSPIRATIONAL" agenda!
    2. You want to know what most of these folks are scared of, GAYS!! Even more than OSAMA BIN LINDEN!! Democrats can no longer seed the air & radio waves to the Repubs! There is at least four "24hr a day Moral Majority (i.e. CBN)type TV channels on basic cable & four 24hr right wing talk shows on AM radio plus FOX NEWS and MSNBC, but only one 3hr center left talk show on black radio in the entire state. CNN does not have an "left wing opinion talk show", and the big Three TV networks newscast are only 20 minutes a day each network. I haven't even thrown in the Daily Oklahoman, the state's largest newspaper, which never has a positive thing to say about any democrat. Nature abhors a vaccuum, and the GOP fills that information vaccuum each day with rhetoric that says to equate Democrats with the Devil Incarnate himself. We are going to have to find ways to either develop or acquire media networks of all types to reach the masses.ASAP!!
    3. Beat the republicans to the punch with our ideas, such as put ideas up for ballot iniatives such as the electoral college one in Colorado or if I was the US Senate Minority Leader I would be putting forth legislation before BUSH does. I would want show our version of serious reform to social security, energy conservation/production, trade, immigration, and on defense/security issues. Have our people pushing a simple practicle agenda before the republicans do, NEVER BE ON DEFENSE ALWAYS THINK OFFENSE!!!  Make The GOP explain why they are against unions, minimum wage, & for a national sales tax (the most regressive tax imanaginable) & for outsourcing!!
    4. Compete in all 50 States do not cede any state to anyone, make them defend their goal line. Make sure your offense always have the short field, because if your opponent is explainin' you are always gainin'!!!
    5. Develop cohesive technolgical efficent organizational structure now!! If your volunteers, campaign staffs, and the candidate himself or herself is not on the same page with other congressional, local, & presidential campaigns your are wasting money, effort, and most importantly time!! The structure has to be ground (grass roots) based, because your foundation is where your strength is at, and the republicans understand it is all about Synergy!!!
    7)Keep tabs on your base, if you ain't listening to your base, you're base will leave you!!

    I put some ideas out here, and I hope to provoke something here, because I feel like many other black democrats. I am not being heard nor respected by my fellow white democrats. A lot of us seen this coming, but no one was listening!!

    The key to winning is take to make ideas into action!!!!

    by ernestohoost on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 03:45:06 AM EST

    Re: Listening to Black Folks, Hallelujah!! (none / 0)

    All good ideas, This one got me to thinking:

    if I was the US Senate Minority Leader I would be putting forth legislation before BUSH does. I would want show our version of serious reform to social security, energy conservation/production, trade, immigration, and on defense/security issues. Have our people pushing a simple practicle agenda before the republicans do, NEVER BE ON DEFENSE ALWAYS THINK OFFENSE!!!  Make The GOP explain why they are against unions, minimum wage, & for a national sales tax (the most regressive tax imanaginable) & for outsourcing!!

    I would suggest that a revived Gramm-Rudman-Hollings bill would really put them on the defense.  Also, propose a bill along the lines of what Kerry was talking about, regarding changing the tax code to punish outsourcing.  Lets give the Democrats something to run on, in 2006 congressional races.

    by Dick Tuck on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 04:11:13 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Listening to Black Folks, Hallelujah!! (none / 0)

    Ernestohoost! You're my man! I think your stuff is right on the money. Particularly on your points 3 and 4: Newt made a huge show of the Repubs writing a "Contract with America." He set an agenda that forced the Dems to respond. We need something exactly like that -- an organized platform of simple hardhitting ideas that demonstrate the kind of country we want. And then they sold it CONSTANTLY. If we wait for elections to push a platform, it'll never happen. The Repoubs are WAY ahead of us on the INFRASTRUCTURE needed to make that sale. They sensed the MSM weren't going to help, so they built their own media and their message is blasted  to the country at piercing volume almost 24 hours a day. EVERY day. They're the only ones making any noise in this country.  

    I'm very hopeful about what we can do. We're correct on the issues and have almost 50% of the country already. We need to get organized and push HARD. I am deeply disappointed that Kerry didn't win. I believe with all my heart he would have been a remarkable president. There were problems with his campaign, for sure. But our biggest practical problem is not being organized, not on the GOTV but in general. We were simply out-hussled on message. That's the importance, I think, of your points 1, 2 and 6. And as for going after EVERY state, ALL the time -- count me in. And point 7 should be obvious!

    And, hey, ernestohoost, with guys like you in Oklahoma, it can't possibly stay a red state for much longer! - From a white guy in Michigan.

    by Jeff Donner on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 10:52:24 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    No More Gimmick Strategies (none / 0)

    Chris Bowers has it right.  John Kerry did a great job and got 55 million votes to prove it. Consider that a swing of only 70,000 votes in Ohio would have one the election for him is also proof of his appeal. The morning after quarterbacking is crazy.  Bush had $400 million to spend, good organization, spin, the power of incumbency, etc. and he still almost lost.  No matter how you look at it Bush did NOT get a mandate. Of course he will continue his war on the middle class--only a defeat would have stopped that.  But his problems are not going away and should divert much of his attention from his mean spirited agenda i.e. abortion and social security "reform". Consider his huge problems:
    a new recession may be on the way, huge budget and trade deficits strangle our economic growth, and the Iraq war is not going away.  He talks a good line to the cameras but we've all seen that off camera the guy is an unfocused boob. But he got 58 million unfocused boobs to vote for him so he deserves the win.  Richard Nixon really had a big mandate in 1972's landslide election but was gone by 1974--you never know whats waiting out there for Bush. I think the strategy now is to fight for Congress in 2006.  Figure that there will be lots to hammer Republicans with by then: Iraq war, thousands of US war KIA's, huge deficits, etc.  These individuals running for Congress will not have a huge pile of money and TV ads to press
    their message.
    by lonrand on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 09:13:04 AM EST

    Re: No More Gimmick Strategies (3.00 / 1)

    You're right, and I am sick of the bellyaching about this campaign.  I think it was wonderful, Kerry was a terrific candidate, and we almost made it against a sitting president with a huge core base.

    I think this adminstration will implode, we'll stay active and unified, and we'll do it next time.

    by mady on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 09:37:26 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Abortion (3.00 / 1)

    I think it's seriously time for the Democrats to rethink their abortion platform.  I am about as progressive as they come on a lot of issues, but our abortion stand is killing us, and I don't really understand it myself.  Why exactly does abortion have to be an either/or proposition? Why do we have to sanction the killing of viable fetuses merely to protect the woman's "right to choose?"

    There is no way that you can convince me that liberals are not hypocrites on this issue.  We talk about caring and compassion and the death penalty and welfare and helping babies and families.  But then when it comes to abortion, we think the mother has a right to have the baby killed in a gruesome manner for pretty much any reason.  (And yes, apparently "health of the mother" is shorthand for "pretty much any reason.")

    Can someone tell me why compromise is so impossible on this issue?  Why we can't find ways to take stands protecting abortion rights in early stages of pregnancy, while acknowledging that killing a viable fetus should be illegal except under extreme court-sanctioned circumstances?

    And not only do I think such a stand would be more reasonable, I think it would deflate a lot of the power of the Christian right.  If we were to acknowledge some reasonable limits on abortion, hundreds of thousands of one-issue abortion voters might have less of a reason to go to the polls.

    by Christopher on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 10:39:12 AM EST

    Re: Abortion (none / 0)

    Compromise is impossible because you either believe abortion is a matter between a woman, her doctor, and her God, or you don't.

    Why we can't find ways to take stands protecting abortion rights in early stages of pregnancy, while acknowledging that killing a viable fetus should be illegal except under extreme court-sanctioned circumstances?

    We already did.  It's called Roe v. Wade.

    All I've been seeing since election day is Dems running scared and advocating more of the same.  More concession to the same people who have been successfully switching wedge issues on you every decade.  You happen to be talking about abortion here, but what I'm mostly seeing is to throw the homosexuals overboard because good Christians don't like the idea of civil rights for them.

    Keep it up, guys, and by 2012 you'll be advocating American women in burkas to appease that slice of the electorate you persist in thinking Dems can win.

    by Mary Mary on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 11:06:33 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Abortion (none / 0)

    We already did.  It's called Roe v. Wade.

    Generally speaking, true, but we don't talk about Roe v. Wade.  We talk about a "woman's right to choose."  That kind of language is worthless in my view, because it paints us as people who think of unborn babies as inconveniences.  And it also reinforces the notion that we believe all embryos and fetuses to be the same.  And this rhetorical stance leaves us in the unenviable position of appearing to be in favor of abortion.

    I'm not talking about backtracking on Roe v. Wade.  And I'm not talking about appeasement.  I'm talking about approaching abortion from the same human rights perspective that we treat everything else.  Instead of painting the right-to-lifers as zealots, admit that they have some real grievances and that we should work together to solve those grievances.

    Maybe I'm wrong.  But I'm just sick and tired of losing election after election based on some empty slogan that ignores the reality of what abortions really are.  Are abortions good?  No.  So let's stop making it seem as though we love them so much.

    by Christopher on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 12:40:15 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Abortion (none / 0)

    Of course you're wrong, Christopher.  I know you're upset, but this isn't the way to go.

    Human rights?  When you restrict abortion according to your point of view, whatever it is, aren't you relegating the pregnant woman to the role of incubator as opposed to human being?

    Don't buy into the RW propaganda. Roe v. Wade sets commonsense and ethical limits on abortion.  Do you hear what you're saying?  You're telling me that I don't care about the difference between a 7 day old embryo and a 7 month old fetus.  That's a RW talking point, and a phony one at that because their arguments rest on not conceding such a difference.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again.  Why are the Dems so eager to cede ground to the Rs?  If you keep this up, you'll be telling me in 2016 to put on a burka because you're tired of losing elections.

    by Mary Mary on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 02:41:01 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Abortion (none / 0)

    You're telling me that I don't care about the difference between a 7 day old embryo and a 7 month old fetus.  That's a RW talking point, and a phony one at that because their arguments rest on not conceding such a difference.

    Yes But it's a very powerful talking point, and one that keeps us from being able to communicate to our opponents.  My personal view is very much what we would consider pro-choice.  It's just that there's a whole lot more to it than just "choice," and liberals have never developed a vocabulary to explain the rest of the story.  So when it comes down to dealing with the gory details, we're completely unprepared to handle it.

    Look at the whole partial-birth thing.  We had nothing, and we couldn't respond against it without appearing to be heartless murderers.  That will continue, and unless we come up with a different vocabulary, they will overturn Roe v. Wade.  And we'll still be saying "but a woman should have the right to choose!"

    by Christopher on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 03:06:38 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Abortion (none / 0)

    Well, then you should get to work on that vocabulary, Christopher.  

    I fully understand your concerns, but it pains me greatly that we are doing fetus chat on a Democrats' board.  So I'm respectfully declining to participate.

    You know the biggest difference between the Rs and the Ds?  It's not "values".  It's fight.  Rs have it, Dems don't.  Once you guys gave up being the party of the working man, you lost your all your gumption.

    Losing this election is more bearable to me than seeing Dems all over the internet backing down.

    by Mary Mary on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 03:47:59 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Abortion (none / 0)

    Okay, no more fetus chat--I didn't mean to upset you.  Don't worry, I am not truly advocating giving up on RvW.  But I absolutely agree with you about the fight thing.  I have always only reluctantly voted for Democrats, and in 2000 not at all, because they're so damn useless.  But this last time I really thought that we were standing up for ourselves, and it was the best feeling in the world to volunteer and be a part of something.  Now that the DLC has been proven a failure, I think it's becoming more obvious that if we don't stand up for our principles we'll just continue to lose lose lose.
     
    by Christopher on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 05:31:33 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Abortion (none / 0)

    There's no hypocrisy on abortion exccept from the conservative side which proclaims an absolute moral authority to protect a pile of cells which have no independent viable life while blindly ignoring the deaths of millions from war, disease, poverty and environmental contamination facilitated by compassionate conservatives who profess a "culture of life"  perspective.

    I do not see abortion as an issue with sufficient power to relegate the progressive movement to the sidelines. There is no need for progressives to compromise on this issue because there are too many Americans who now agree with the personal freedom position no matter how loud the religious right wants to shout. Gay marriage, not abortion, was the values issue that drove millions of evangelicals to the polls on Tuesday.  

    by dicta on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 12:27:32 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Abortion (none / 0)

    I'm not talking about a pile of cells.  I'm talking about the right to abort a viable fetus for essentially any health reason whatsoever, totally ignoring the fact that the only difference between this and "murder" is the location of the baby's head.  This is the hypocrisy I'm talking about.  I have no good defense for this.  And I know that very very few of these abortions occur.  So why are we so strident in defending them?  I don't know.

    I would much rather we talked about finding homes for unwanted babies, how GOP policies are increasing the need for aboritons, and so forth.  I think that would be a very constructive avenue to take.

    by Christopher on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 01:00:35 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Abortion (none / 0)

    I don't want the democrats to become the "kinder gentler" version of the right-wing Republicans.

    We need in the words of Phyllis Schlafly to offer the American People "A Choice Not an Echo"

    We have to stop running away from our issues, our values and our party. We should not be ashamed to be Democrats and dare I say Liberals.

    Following the advice of Hannity or Zell Miller gets us nowhere. Deciding that the party and it's canidates need to lie on the ideological spectrim somewhere between Joe Lieberman and Zell Miller would be an even worse disaster and would destroy the party.

    That said we need to make sure we have a big tent and temper the stands on some hot-button issues so those who don't necessarily agree on the particulars but agree with Democrats core values feel comfortable in the party.

    People who are Democrats but are pro-life, or pro-gun should not have to constantly appologise for their views. Particularly when they are fairly moderate such as focusing on enforcing exsisting gun laws rather than passing new ones or desiring parental consent for abortions when the mother is a minor. Even if you feel they are wrong we need to be open enough to have the dialog within the party.

    To this end I feel that we should give Sen. Reid the benefit of the doubt as minority leader. Just because he isn't necesarily the most liberal on social issues doesn't mean that he will automaticly capitulate to right-wing extremists at every turn.

    As I said above the biggest thing we have to do is to have a clear message of what Democrats stand for and run on some version of that in every race. To that end we have to re-frame the debate and argue it in our terms rather than allowing ourselves to get stuck in the frames the conservatives provide. Capitulating to the GOP on issues they beat Democrats over the head with won't stop them from finding new issues to beat us up with. Democrats need to define who we are and what we stand for not the GOP.

    by ces on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 06:06:49 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Look to Robert F. Kennedy's 1968 Platform (none / 0)

    Ideas and Inspiration for the old and and young. Just update the details to today's world. Ideals transcend time and generations. This is probably what would have worked this year too.  

    I wrote about it at dKos, here's the link:

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/11/4/21341/5377

    Thu Nov 4th, 2004 at 22:03:41 EDT

    Maybe we need to study Robert F. Kennedy's Presidential run and platform.  I actually started to think of this on Election Day, when I bought an old RFK For President campaign button from a guy selling old Presidential Campaign buttons on the corner of 19th and M streets in Washington D.C.
    I really think that we can learn something about how to deal with this 'values' issue by looking to the past a bit.  I also think that to some degree it will help us understand just how the Republicans have done it, because I get this feeling that this is exactly where the 'compassionate conservative' name was drawn from (though in practice Bush has been anything but compassionate).

    An excerpt from the transcript of the Robert F. Kennedy Conference, November 18, 2000

    Mr. Michael  Sandel:

    These are not easy acts to follow. Unlike so many people on these panels, I was not privileged to know Robert Kennedy. I was 15 years old in 1968, and I speak here really just as a student of the American political tradition. And I'd like to talk about some of the political themes, the moral and political themes that animated Robert Kennedy's campaign in 1968. Because it seems to me, those themes have a special place in the American political tradition, and they're ones for which we still have a great deal to learn...

    As he campaigned for the Presidency, maybe without fully realizing it, Robert Kennedy was finding a way to a political vision that challenged the complacency of post-war American liberalism. And if you look back at the themes about which he spoke in 1968, from the standpoint of the present, from the standpoint of our current impoverished national political debates, what's striking is that American politics, including the Democratic Party, have failed to recover the moral energy and the bold public purpose to which Robert Kennedy gave voice.

    And what I would like to try to analyze is why that's the case. What was it in the political themes and in the implicit political philosophy that Robert Kennedy articulated in that campaign that are at odds with the assumptions of so much of contemporary politics in both parties? Now, the answer that I would like to propose may not be as popular here as the general idea. Because it seems to me that the key to the resonance and the power and the moral force of Robert Kennedy's politics is that, in many ways, it amounted to a critique of contemporary liberalism. Despite his commitment to the poor and his opposition to the war in Vietnam, Robert Kennedy was not by temperament or ideology a liberal, at least, not in the familiar sense of that term in 20th century American politics.

    In some ways his political outlook was more conservative, and in other ways more radical than the mainstream of the Democratic Party before or since. Unlike most liberals, for example, in 1968, he worried about the remoteness of big government. He argued for decentralized power. He criticized welfare as our greatest domestic failure. He challenged the faith in economic growth as a panacea for social ills, and he took a hard line on crime.

    What gave his message its resonance was that it drew on a vision of citizenship and a community that the managerial or procedural politics of the modern age had largely crowded from view. What RFK articulated as he tried to find a public philosophy adequate to the turmoil of those times, what he began to articulate was an older, more demanding vision of civic life. According to this older ideal, and here's where we have to look back to the American political tradition, reaching all the way back to Jefferson, according to the ideal on which he managed to draw, freedom-- Freedom doesn't just consist in fair access to the bounty of a consumer society. Freedom requires that citizens share in self-rule and that they participate in shaping the courses that govern their collective destiny.

    Now why is this emphasis on the civic strand of the American political tradition intentioned with contemporary liberalism? Because on the civic strand, in politics you have to be concerned with things like civic virtue. You have to be concerned with the character of citizens. This older civic tradition-- some would call it a republican tradition, of picking citizens for self-rule requires that public life attend to their character. Now these days we shrink from that topic of character and virtue because it comes so often from cultural conservatives. Virtue talks. But what's striking is if you look at 200 years of American political discourse, this older, more demanding idea of citizenship and of freedom depends on seeing politics as partly a formative project concerned with forming, with shaping, with cultivating, the moral and civic character of citizens.

    Robert Kennedy drew on this older tradition. And it was this civic strand of his political vision that enabled him to address anxieties of the late `60s and yet persist in these times. Those anxieties include mistrust of government, a growing sense of disempowerment, and a widespread fear from families to neighborhoods to the nation, that the moral fabric of community is unraveling around us. These are the themes, the anxieties and the worries that continue to beset American public life and public culture.  What are so striking about our politics today are its impoverishment and its inability to speak to those worries. Robert Kennedy did....

    snip

    ...Had Democrats learned from Robert Kennedy the importance of community and self government and character formation and civic virtue, they would not have conceded these powerful ideals to cultural conservatives, from Falwell to Pat Robertson, William Bennett to Ronald Reagan, conservatives who invoked these ideas rhetorically while at the same time promoting an unfettered capitalism that does so much to disempower neighborhoods and communities.

    So this seems to me what was really distinctive in the voice and in the moral and political vision that was beginning to find expression in Robert Kennedy's politics in 1968. What we find three decades later is the progressive impulse in American public life has yet to recover its civic voice. What Robert Kennedy offered in 1968 was a strenuous idealism that recalls us to a citizenship that offers something more than basic training for a consumer society. And three decades later, we still await a political agenda that recalls us to that moral and civic project. Thank you.

    There's much more at that link, so go ahead and give it a read.

    I'm ordering three books about RFK as we speak.  When they arrive I'm going to read and digest these, finally get through the Truman biography too, and come back with something good to write for the holidays.

    Sometimes it helps to know a bit about the past so that you can plot a good solid course for the future.

    by LionelEHutz on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 10:41:53 AM EST

    Re: Look to Robert F. Kennedy's 1968 Platform (none / 0)

    Ok, It is hard to read an article about civic virute posted by "I Swear Its Not a Law Firm" Lionel Hutz, but this really is where we can make in roads.  It will help us in three major ways.  (1) It provides an overarching theme for what we are trying to do.
    (2) Emphasis on civic virtue and duty allows us to talk about values without being overtly religious; (3) Emphasis on duty is a great counter argument to the whole anti-tax rant the Republican's have--the idea that supporting the government as the expression of the political will of the national community is our duty and to try and shirk that is disgraceful.

    I think this is sort of what Howard Dean was groping at last year about this time.  People loved him because he gave people a sense of community and of fufilling civic duties.  If anything, that's the theme which Kerry got wrong.  He put the emphasis on his own fufillment of his civic duty, not our fufillment of our own duty.  People want to belong to something bigger, and that's what both the Kennedy brothers promised us--hard work on our part.  For too long we've been focused on the part about what people get for voting for us and not enough on what people will be asked to do when we gain power.  Renewing the sense of faith in the national mission will be critical in the next few years as we move away from the terrible errors of the last few years.

    That is why Bush's victory holds the silverest of all linings--the chance to really change the way that we think about things, not just the way we do things.

    by Robwaldeck on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 11:47:23 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Look to Robert F. Kennedy's 1968 Platform (none / 0)

    just keeping the memory of Phil Hartman alive and well...
    by LionelEHutz on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 02:04:17 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Read this artical from the washington Post (none / 0)

    Democrats In a Divided Land

    By Harold Meyerson, Washington Post
    Friday, November 5, 2004; Page A25

    "All right," John Dos Passos wrote in a rage over the execution of Sacco and Vanzetti, "we are two nations."

    Oh, are we ever. And 77 years after Dos Passos penned those words, his two nations and ours bear an almost spooky resemblance.

    The most striking, the most overwhelming fact about the 2004 vote is how closely it resembles the 2000 vote. Think of it: Since November 2000, the twin towers have been obliterated, we've gone to war preemptively and under erroneous pretenses in Iraq, George W. Bush has become the first president since Herbert Hoover to have jobs shrink on his watch, our standing in the world has diminished nearly everywhere. And how did all this affect the electoral map? A shift of 17,000 votes turned New Hampshire (four electoral votes) from red to blue, while a shift of 12,000 votes turned New Mexico (five electoral votes) from blue to red.

    The battle lines of the cultural civil war that emerged in the 2000 contest have shown themselves to be all but impermeable to even the most earthshaking events. What did change between 2000 and 2004 was the capacity of the two parties to mobilize the forces behind their own lines. The Democrats did a splendid job of turning out their vote. The Republicans did a stupendous job of turning out theirs.

    The exit polling -- amended, adjusted, corrected for reality -- shows the magnitude of the shift. In 2000 Democrats constituted 39 percent of the electorate and Republicans 35 percent. This year Democrats and Republicans each constituted 37 percent of the electorate. Four years ago, moderates made up 50 percent of the voting public and conservatives 29 percent. On Tuesday the moderate share of the electorate declined to 45 percent, while conservatives boosted their share to 34 percent.

    The Republicans didn't get these figures by winning millions more political conversions than the Democrats: The numbers of 2000 Gore voters crossing over to vote for Bush this time and 2000 Bush voters crossing over to vote for Kerry seem about equal. Rather, they boosted their totals in small towns and hamlets, among Protestant evangelicals who don't often vote, beyond nearly everyone's expectation but their own. Karl Rove's strategy -- that Bush could attain a majority by a super-mobilization of the Christian right -- was vindicated and then some on Tuesday.

    What Bush won on election night was a narrow "moral majority." The overwhelming support the president won among traditionalist churchgoers of modest means was rooted in an affinity of values. There's no evidence to suggest that Bush's "Medicare reform" -- his term for a huge giveaway to the prescription drug industry -- yielded him any votes at all.

    Although Bush claims a mandate for his right-wing economics, that's clearly not what won him and other Bush Republicans the support of his evangelical base.

    Time was when the right bemoaned liberals' reliance on identity politics, but no one has played the identity card more expertly than Bush and Rove. Stoking fears of cultural deviance and cosmopolitan ascendancy, the Republicans ran against John Kerry as, above all, an alien. In the reddest precincts of red America, Republicans question whether Kerry and the Democrats are Americans at all.

    We've been here before -- when we had the two nations that Dos Passos wrote about. Our last two elections look increasingly like those of the mid-1920s, when our nation was also divided along cultural lines, the old-line rural and hinterland Protestant stock arrayed against the new immigrant-Catholic America that had taken over the Northeastern and Midwestern big cities and that, in the person of Democrat Al Smith, was seeking the presidency. Democrats didn't know how to cross the political dividing lines of the '20s any more than they do today. It took the Great Depression to make those lines crossable, and then Franklin Roosevelt re-divided the nation along lines of class that kept the Democrats in power for many years.

    Democrats can't wait for another depression to restore them to power; the risk that long-term Republican rule poses to civilization is a touch too high. They need candidates and a language that even the worst good-old-boys recognize as American. That doesn't mean selling out Social Security, much less abandoning economic progressivism: 72 percent of the voters in the Bush state of Florida and 68 percent in the Bush state of Nevada voted on Tuesday for initiatives that raised the minimum wage. But it does mean that so long as the boundaries between blue and red America seem so fixed, the Democrats must be able to come off as Americans behind the other guys' lines.

    It says a lot about where we are heading.  KarlRove and the Tom Delays of the world have done a good job dividing this country over religous/moral issues, whereas for the past 60 yrds we were divided over ecomonic classes.  Since the 80ies and Reagan, when the class devide really began to grow, the cultural devide began to grow as well.  People eoviously don't seem to care that this current adminstartion has sold its sole to corperate america, or else they don't beliveit. Or most likely they think the real reason for the huge gap in the classes is lack of morality.  They blame the key lays of the world not on greed, but a lack spiritual faith and morality.  Because a morally religious peron, would never do somethging so immoral.  Just the same be is a religiou man get therefrore he must be beyong reproach, same thing with Tom Delay, all the semi-legal money skeems must be ok because he is a man of god.

    We need to get back out there and remind them that our cause are the moral ones, we don't need faith, faith is a persons indiviual choice, but morality is universal.  We need to make this about the haves and the have nots, not about moral vs amoral.  

    The rebublican rule by fear, and the administration are masters of it, be afraid of islam, be afraid of the gays be afraid of forieners, be afriad of another attack, fear is a very powerful emotion, if we are not carefully fear becomes hate, we all should know where hate lead to. (just ask the Germans. It truely scares me that so many states over whelmingly pass the same sex bans.

    We need to get the message out in terms of morality, and move this contry back to class warefare not social/cultrual warefare.
     

    by likesun on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 10:49:16 AM EST

    Re: Read this artical from the washington Post (none / 0)

    sorry i diodn't make it clear where my comments began and teh artical eneded.  My comments start It says alot ...
    by likesun on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 10:58:00 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    To expand Dem electorate (none / 0)

    We need to reframe the abortion and gay marriage issue.

    We have to make sure people understand Democratic Partty as well as Bush and Cheney are not for Gay Marriage but are for Civil Unions.

    We have to de-emphasize abortion as a pro-choice issue but instead Democratic Party is the best party to decrease the rate of abortion by providing good policies and the proof of this is under Clinton,  abortion rates decrease. Making Abortion illegal will not solve the problem.  Also make sure they understand what pro-life really means. Also let them picture a pro-life world such as if their teenage child became pregannt by a rapist or they are carrying a defective baby do they really want to ban abortion.

    We need also to show Democratic Party celebrate WORK and not the Welfare Party.

    Once this 2 cultural issues are off the table, then we can reach the white southerners, low income and moderate income who will benefit  from policies of the Democratic party.

    Democrats should have a focus group on people who we think should vote democratic because of their economic situation but dont then see how we could reach them.

    by jasmine on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 10:56:13 AM EST

    Chris Is Right (none / 0)

    Chris is right.  We need structural change.  If lack of candidate charisma was the problem, how does one  explain George W. Bush.  We crushed his credibility and exposed his charisma for nothing.  People voted for him out of fear and because they were told to do so.  Basically, most decent folks pretty much all went for us--independents and far more Republicans than they'd like to admit.  Problem was Bush enlarged his base.  We have to enlarge ours now and steal theirs away by convincing them we are right on values and issues.  This may seem like a tall order, but no one said it would be easy.  Basically structural change is needed.  
    by Robwaldeck on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 11:35:29 AM EST

    Re: Chris Is Right (none / 0)

    Saying we crushed W's charisma is a bit foolish and seen from a biased viewpoint.  MANY MANY MANY people still think he is charasmatic.  I disgree with that statement, but I am only one vote.  Yes W has no charisma with the left.  But that doesn't speak for the rest of the country.  Some voted on fear, but some really like the man and that is the main reason they voted for him.  To ignore that puts one in peril of reliving that tragic day over and over for years to come.
    by yitbos96bb on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 02:33:18 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    wha? (none / 0)

    First let me say what a wonderful and diverse collection of thoughts and ideas are represented in the above posts.  All involved reveal an astonishing degree of intelligence and reflectiveness, plus a strong will to persevere in the face the obstacles that confront us.  This is truly a hopeful sign for the future

    It saddens me, however, that whenever I open one of these threads that purports to be a discussion of strategy, what I read is mostly about tactics.  I suggest that we need stronger, more rigorous definitions of these two wings of the political landscape, just for the sake of clarity.

    It also seems to me, we need to evolve some new methodology in these internets.  Some kind of distributive mechanism to direct us individually to contribute in the tremendous amount of work needed to develop a consensual view or even interlocking set of views on the various streams our ideas present.

    One more thing.  Spirituality trumps religiosity.  It's personal not institutional.  It suggests individual moral development, not other directed social proscriptions.  And even atheists have a spiritual nature.

    by luminous on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 02:33:48 PM EST

    For President, Charisma Matters Too (none / 0)

    Just look at who the last two Presidents were: the more charismatic.

    While rebuilding party identification indicies is vitally important, the Q scores of the Presidential candidates are vitally important too.  If you like the guy (or gal), you tend to overlook some shortcomings; if you don't, they loom large, and make you go the other way.

    Right or wrong in their perception, there were a LOT of voters who just never, in their bones, trusted Kerry.  Was that helped along by flip-flopper and Swifties?  Sure.  But the candidate's own qualities played a part as well.

    by dell on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 02:49:14 PM EST

    Deeper thought needed (none / 0)

    I agree wholeheartedly with this. We need to think strategically, not tactically. As I discuss in a recent article in my blog, we also need to stop thinking that everyone who voted for Bush is a moron. We need to analyze the psychology of why people vote like they do, and learn to use that to our advantage.
    by stiber on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 04:22:16 PM EST

    It's the Governors, Stupid! No more Senators. (none / 0)

    There's a lot of talk about how the U.S. is stridently divided between Red States and Blue States. But if you look at the 12 Red States with Democratic Governors (i.e. Arizona, New Mexico, Wyoming, Montana, Kansas, Oklahoma!, Louisiana, Tennesee, North Carolina, Virginia and West Virginia) - it becomes quite clear that these governors are the only clear hope for a presidential win in 2008.

    Forget Senators Clinton and Edwards.  Edwards couldn't even win his own state; Clinton might paint the map even redder.

    It is the Democratic governors in the Red States who have figured out how to appeal, as executives, not legislators, to the Red State populace.  It is their experience running mini-countries that translates well into the job of campaigning for and running the country as a whole.  It's the personality and individual power of a governor, not a senator, that can make people immediately visualize them as President - the buck-stops-here responsibility of a Governor for his/her own state nearly always trumps the nuanced negotiations and stances of those from Congress.  It is the pictures in the White House-like Governor's mansions that immediately make these folks appear presidential - they don't have to share the same picture of the U.S. Capitol building that 533 other politicians use in their campaign material.  Governors talk more clearly - they are not caught up in wishy-washy Senatese.  Finally, a Red State Democratic Governor has a better chance at winning his own state, and those around it, than a Senator or Congressperson who is one of two or one of many and who is rightly subject to the charge of spending too much time in the Beltway and not enough time at home.  Governors are at home every single day and, assuming they are reasonably popular, are popular because of the same executive decisions and policies that they would bring with them to the White House.  They don't have to talk about how they voted for this or that amendment which may or may not bring about a reduction in the deficit - they can say "My administration balanced the budget, my administration improved education and made health care more affordable, etc., etc.".  A Senator really can't claim to have had the same effect because the Senate has 100 different people claiming to have voted for tax relief, etc., but a Governor can say "I did this, I did that."  There's a reason that, at least within the last 100 years, if not more, no Senator has beaten a Governor in a race for the White House.

    If Democrats have any real chance of beating Governor Jeb Bush next time around (or Governor Pataki or Mayor Guiliani (who, as executive of a city of 8+ million was really a governor), a Democratic Governor from a Red State (or a swing state) needs to be in the mix.  

    So start drafting Governors Warner (13 electoral votes), Easley (15 electoral votes), Bredesen (11 electoral votes) or Governors with the ability to play in the midwest (Governors Henry or Sebelius).  They just might be able to pull another 2 to 4 Red States into the Blue State coalition, and that'll be all it will take.

    The most important part of this analysis is that, as a Democratic Governor of a Red State, they're already firmly within (or perceived as being firmly within) the mainstream of the country and not subject to charges of being on the left or right fringe (i.e., being unfairly targeted as being the most liberal senator in Congress).  Our hope is for a Democrat like Dave Freudenthal who became Governor last year of Wyoming - a state  which went 69% to Bush!

    by myddcontributor on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 05:32:10 PM EST

    Re: It's the Governors, Stupid! No more Senators. (none / 0)

    On the list of 12 Red State Governors, I left out Iowa.
    by myddcontributor on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 05:37:49 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Not Bredesen (none / 0)

    You can forget Bredesen.  He's good at getting things done, but he's an administrator, not a real politician.  He decided not to campaign for Kerry, but instead to campaign for the Democratic state senate candidates.  That didn't turn out so well.  Bredesen's popular only because he's not his corrupt predecessor.

    But yes, if Easley or Warner is a good candidate, that might be a good idea.

    by Christopher on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 05:58:53 PM EST

    One simple thing (none / 0)

    that we need is a person from a red state that can take that state. He needs to be southern and religious. A governor would be perfect. Senators have too much baggage. Forget about the north east. Charisma is key. Does anyone fit that bill?
    by kitebro on Sat Nov 06, 2004 at 07:43:56 PM EST


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