MyDD :: Creeping Medievalism

Creeping Medievalism

by Chris Bowers, Tue Nov 30, 2004 at 04:47:53 PM EST

Even thought the Christian right does not want to guarantee the right to a public education, and is willing to uphold segregationist laws in order to make certain that does not become a right...

Leading opponents, such as Alabama Christian Coalition President John Giles, said they did not object to removing the passage about separate schools for "white and colored children." But, employing an argument that was ridiculed by most of the state's newspapers and by legions of legal experts, Giles and others said guaranteeing a right to a public education would have opened a door for "rogue" federal judges to order the state to raise taxes to pay for improvements in its public school system.

...they do want to mold the science curriculum of public schools

The school board has ordered that biology teachers at Dover Area High School make students "aware of gaps/problems" in the theory of evolution. Their ninth-grade curriculum now must include the theory of "intelligent design," which posits that life is so complex and elaborate that some greater wisdom has to be behind it.(...)

The idea of intelligent design was initiated by a small group of scientists to explain what they believe to be gaps in Charles Darwin's theory of evolution, which they say is "not adequate to explain all natural phenomena. "(...)

Critics such as Eugenie Scott, director of the Oakland-based National Center for Science Education, say the Dover school board's decision is part of a growing trend. Religious conservatives, critics say, have been waging a war against Darwin in classrooms since the Scopes "Monkey Trial" of 1925. Tennessee schoolteacher John Scopes was convicted of illegally teaching evolution, but his conviction later was thrown out on a technicality by the Tennessee Supreme Court.

"There's a constant impetus by conservative evangelical Christians to bring religion back into the public schools," said Witold Walczak, legal director of the Pennsylvania branch of the American Civil Liberties Union. "The end goal is to get rid of evolution. They view it as a threat to their religion."

Perhaps we should form a truce: if you do not believe that public education is a right, then you do not have the right to determine curriculum in public schools.

Conservatives crush enterprise through intolerance. Conservatives crush enterprise by defending the interests of an aristocratic, status-quo corporate oligarchy over small business. In our current economy, jobs and new business are more dependent upon scientific knowledge that at any time in the past. Now, because intolerance and aristocracy are not enough, conservatives want to crush enterprise by making certain that the next generation is ignorant of modern science.

When will libertarians wake up and realize that free-spending conservatives who are the real threats to American enterprise and progress? Innovation, tolerance and entrepreneurship are liberal values, values to which conservatives are opposed.

Tags: Ideology (all tags)

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christians - economics (none / 0)

The mainstream GOP won't take a stand against the Christian Right until they get it in their thick skulls that there is an economic downside to fundamentalism. If the religious wingnuts succeed in turning the Red States into hellholes of intolerance, they will drive away capital and talent from their economies.

by global yokel on Tue Nov 30, 2004 at 04:54:45 PM EST

Re: christians - economics (none / 0)

Probably true, but I suspect the fundamentalist extremists will cause tremendous damage before the so-called mainstream ever gets around to doing anything about it. Which is why we need grassroots liberals, I guess.

by Omark on Tue Nov 30, 2004 at 04:57:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: christians - economics (none / 0)

Talented people are already leaving the red states- name one red state that is a leading in science and tech in the country? People who are telented in those areas do leave. Unfortunately, we have a bigger problem while we are fighting some rearduard action actipon against religious fundementalists in this country most of the graduates students in science and tech are foreigners.

The post 9/11 rules for foreign students has made it tougher for them to get in the country and now graduate prgrams are having problems staffing labs. The real sad part is that Americans as a whole don't value science enough to do the hard work and years of study it takes to become a phd now.

by Christopher Hitchens on Tue Nov 30, 2004 at 06:48:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: christians - economics (none / 0)

Actually, it is the blue states that are losing population. Which means the red states are gaining in Electoral Votes and Congressional seats.

Also, the red states are not a complete backwater, nor are the blue states completely progressive.

As for the South, my home, the Republican Party has the odd, and rather fortunate, position of being the party of the New South and the Old South at the same time. There are historical reasons for this which I will not go into here. In short, the party of David Duke is the party of Bobby Jindal, the party of Strom Thurmond is the party of Mark Sanford, etc. (Hell, Sanford compared himself to Ataturk, praising his transformation of Turkey from a theocratic dynasty to a modernized republic. He later apologized when he found out that Ataturk had also killed a lot of Armenians)

The South may be solid red, but it is two different shades of red. Republican Primary fights are often as viscious, if not more, than the general election. The nation saw this clearly in the McCain/Bush battle in South Carolina.

by wayward on Wed Dec 01, 2004 at 12:11:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: christians - economics (none / 0)

hellholes of intolerance

OK, I'm going to play Devil's Advocate. Imagine if you SINCERELY believed evolution was merely a "theory" and you SINCERELY believed "Creationism" was a scientifically valid belief (after all, you are relying not only on your Bible but on the arguments of various "experts" in the field, Ph.D's no less.) Now imagine a good percentage of the taxpayers in your school district share your view that evolution is an unproven theory being foisted upon your children by close-minded secularists who are INTOLERANT of anyone who challenges Darwin's theory. Wouldn't it be perfectly rational for you to be peeved that the school which your taxes pay for will teach evolution but exclude Creationism as a possible alternative theory?

Mind you, I don't believe for a minute that Creationism is valid science. But I don't quite know how to get around the fact that a healthy portion of a local community might believe it is valid science, not merely a religious belief, so such a community may sincerely believe that teaching Creationism alongside evolution, in their public schools, poses no state-church conflict and PROMOTES tolerance of different viewpoints.

Under such circumstances, perhaps it would be best for public schools to just drop the subject altogether. Biology is a huge subject; the topic of evolution could be left until college (just as, for instance, many of the topics in mathematics - like non-Euclidean geometry - aren't normally encountered until college.) And if people demanded that their local college teach Creationism? Well, if a college did so, no one would think it would be a serious place to study the origin of species, but it might still be a good college for studing, say, engineering. Such a college could crank out good engineers and programmers and accountants and there would be no descent to the Dark Ages.

Keep it short. DemocraticShortList.com

by Rob in Vermont on Wed Dec 01, 2004 at 12:28:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: christians - economics (none / 0)

Teaching biology without evolution is like teaching physics without gravity or teaching math without addition.

Furthermore, the minority in the school district must be protected. If the majority of a school district decided that the written word was the work of the devil, and decided to remove books from a school to prevent children from learning how to read, would that be acceptable? Promoting an ignorance of science is doing an identical disservice to the children of this community.

by fwiffo on Wed Dec 01, 2004 at 10:14:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: christians - economics (none / 0)

Philosophically I'm on your side.

But I'm skeptical of some of your points. Biology is the study of living things; evolution is one aspect of that study: the history and priciples of how life evolved. You certainly need to understand well the biology of humans to be a physician, and the biology of animals to be a veterinarian, but I suspect you could be a good doctor or a good vet even if you didn't have a firm grasp of Darwin's principle of natural selection. And the slippery slope you invoke is too dramatic. We don't REALLY need to worry about a sect of written-word-haters (sects in American tend to be quite enamored with the written word!) I think the reality is that Fundamentalists in America do not tend to be fanatical about most aspects of science; they mostly embrace science - after all, they view the universe as God's great creation, and science is the study of the universe. Where they have obvious problems are with those parts of science that deal with the history and evolution of the universe, which don't comport with their literalist, Bible-based view of history.

I don't enjoy my idea that certain public schools should drop those subjects altogether to avoid offense in heavily Fundamentalists communities, but I'd rather see that happen than see junk science brought into the schools and taught as a "competing theory".

Keep it short. DemocraticShortList.com

by Rob in Vermont on Wed Dec 01, 2004 at 01:16:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: christians - economics (none / 0)

When I took biology about 12 years ago, we talk very little on evolution...maybe spent a week or so. Most of the time we talked about how organisms worked, cell division, body parts, disections, etc. I think dropping the theory of creation may be the best compromise. No evolution, no creationism and no intelligent design. Just talk about the meat and potatoes. People were studying disections before Darwin, I am sure high schoolers can get by without it.

by yitbos96bb on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 11:01:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: christians - economics (none / 0)

The other question too is what if the situation was reversed and the creationists were in the minority. If we need to protect the minority we must teach their viewpoint as well. I don't agree with it but then again I have always thought the truth lies somewhere in the middle...such as a day in God's time is a lot longer than in our time... But then, much like the early Christians, I take the bible as allegory (its intended use) rather than literal.

by yitbos96bb on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 11:04:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Chose your enemies well... (none / 0)

"Choose your enemies well, it is they you shall become..."

I think that is an old Jewish proverb... not sure though...

Anyway it should not come as a surprise that the more we lock horns with Islamic fundamentalists the more our warrior elite wants us to mirror them.

by dryfly on Tue Nov 30, 2004 at 04:59:48 PM EST

Re: Chose your enemies well... (none / 0)

Be careful when you wrestle with monsters, lest you thereby become one. For, if you stare long enough into the abyss, the abyss also stares into you.
-- Friedrich Nietsche

by Gary Boatwright on Tue Nov 30, 2004 at 10:45:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Creeping medievalism ? (none / 0)

To steal from Heilbroner, the capitalistic economy and the liberal nation state needed to sustain it are in dire trouble. One way for people to deal with what they can see out of the corner of their eye that frightens them (the collapse of a political-economic system they can see occurring but can't stop) is to become belligerant and retreat to hard held ideologies. Churchitarians are seemingly very secure since their world view is so "solid", depending as it does on blind faith and not requiring verification with facts. They see no hypocrisy in both trying to constrain public education and denying that anyone has a right to one. Their goal is to make everyone conform, in order to increase their sense of security. The ultimate goal is to create a safe environment, and a Church-State that they can worship without having to think about anything. That many are regressing to the past rather than moving into the future isn't surprising: the past is known and under out control, the future is full of unknowns and out of our control. If we move to the past, then we are in control, and secure.

The challenge is to help those who are on the margins of this movement avoid being sucked into it. The onlyway to do so is to make them feel that whatever we have to offer is going to give them some security in a world in transition into (what?).

by Carol on Tue Nov 30, 2004 at 05:44:45 PM EST

Back to the Dark Ages! (none / 0)

Yup, it does seem like Creeping Medievalism.... a return to the conditions that led to the infamous, ignorant Dark ages when knowledge, education, rational thinking and innovation were the perceived enemy.

by Debi White on Tue Nov 30, 2004 at 06:31:49 PM EST

it will get worse, much worse (none / 0)

My wife works in a genetics lab at a major research university. In her lab there are TWO wingnut (I don't use the term lightly, one listens to Rush Limbaugh & friends all day, every day) PhD students who are there solely to get the "credentials" they need to go out and, yes, promote creationism. So these two guys will soon earn doctorates in genetics from a first rank university - they are working on the genetic mechanisms of aging, for chrissakes - and then go out into the world denying that evolution is anything other than a marxist plot. There must be guys like them all over the country, and soon they will be taking over YOUR neighborhood science curriculum.

by spandrel on Tue Nov 30, 2004 at 09:16:06 PM EST

Re: it will get worse, much worse (none / 0)

Please have her ask them where the Creationists come up with the 10,000 year figure for the age of the earth. I was at a debate on the Iowa State campus back in the eighties. The faux scientist defending creationism had a credible quasi-scientific case. The real scientist pointed out that the creationists' arguments were sophisticated, but they were distorted science.

Then he asked the Creationist how he "scientifically" determined the age of the earth. The Creationist hemmed and hawed and tried to dodge. The real scientist told us the reason the Creationist wouldn't answer was because they added up all of the "begats" in the Bible and using an estimated life span, came up with 10,000 years.

The scientific "proof" of the age of the earth is the sum of all the begats in the Bible.

by Gary Boatwright on Wed Dec 01, 2004 at 12:42:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

AFAIC (none / 0)

This is as important (if not more so) as the economy and oil and even Iraq, because no other 'issue' can be separated from this purposeful descent into Medievalism by the radicals.

These guys WANT a return to the pre-Enlightenment. It's what they've been working for. They're even rewriting the histories of the Crusades and the Inquisition --- they're apologists for ignorance and bigotry of the worst kind.

It's my own feeling that we can talk about the economy and the so-called morality of various individuals until the cows come home, and it will make no difference. But if we can only get people to understand the real consequences of what these people are up to, what it means to live in that kind of darkness, then maybe there might be a chance to stop it.

It has been troubling me for a very long time. But I am glad to see others realize it.

by cookie on Tue Nov 30, 2004 at 10:26:05 PM EST

Libertarian issues are wide open (none / 0)

Pro-choice is the primary libertarian issue on the table right now, with gun control a close second. Maybe it's time to get on the libertarian side of both issues.

Conservatives are stuck because they can't be libertarian and against choice at the same time. Freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom to choose, freedom to live your life without government interference. There's a very strong libertarian impulse out there that convervatives have abandoned.

The two big meta issues that are waiting to be picked up are fiscal responsibility and freedom.

by Gary Boatwright on Tue Nov 30, 2004 at 10:49:52 PM EST

Re: Libertarian issues are wide open (none / 0)

Ironically though it seems many of the people who support NO GUN CONTROL at all, are pro-life. I wonder if you could ever get the NRA, the gun contollers and the cops all in the room at once and bang out a compromise plan.

by yitbos96bb on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 11:16:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

What's going on (?) (none / 0)

The modern (Bush) Republican Party is run by three specific groups:

The Military-Industrial complex
Corporate America
The Catholic Right

These three groups have three different goals that may support each other, but do not conflict.

The military-industrial complex wants increased military buildup and a further militarization of society.

Corporate America wants cheap labor and low taxes. Contrary to popular opinion, they do not want less Government. (Corporations recieve billions in welfare and start thousands of "frivolous lawsuits" each year) They just want the Government to serve them and not the people.

The Catholic Right sets the social policy. Government should support the church with public support and financial support. Government should follow church policy on morality in its laws. Government should promote an ordered society. War and peace, economic policy and the administration of justice are matters of state, not the church's concern. The President's decision on stem cell research was right out of the Catholic right's handbook. (It should be noted that many of these ideals are not shared by the modern Vatican at all, but come from certain reactionary Catholic intellectuals who want to return to an earlier time.) The Catholic right has the brains and the influence, and all the evangelicals have is the numbers.

The truth is that ultra-conservative Protestants have little power in the Republican Party. Even in Greenville, SC, home of Bob Jones University, it's the business Republicans who still control the party. Not to mention the fact that getting evangelicals to organize themselves is like herding cats. Even if they agree on 99% of the issues, they will spend all their time and energy arguing over the other 1%.

However, they can and do have power at a local level. School boards and county councils are especially vulnerable. This is why liberals must be active and alert everywhere across the country. No part of the country should be written off.

by wayward on Tue Nov 30, 2004 at 11:52:05 PM EST

Intelligent Design (none / 0)

You have to admit...it is a much better theory than the world began in 7 days...something EASILY refuted.

by yitbos96bb on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 10:51:51 AM EST

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