CBS Framing, and Democratic Brand ad for Dean

Howard Dean might be "the most mentioned name to head the Democratic National Committee" but CBS (David Paul Kuhn) doesn't get around to mentioning Dean until the the 13th paragraph, and what a frame:
The White House and both houses of Congress remain under GOP control. The Democrats have also lost governorships, state legislatures and could be on the verge of losing hold on the traditionally Democratic industrial Midwest.

While the Democrats did compete dollar-for-dollar with Republicans in the presidential election, interviews with a dozen insiders since Election Day portray a party still unsure of its identity.

On one side is the moderate wing, now under the stewardship of Reid, a Mormon who opposes abortion except in the case of rape, incest or a threat to the mother's life. On the other is the liberal wing led by antiwar and pro-abortion rights presidential candidate Howard Dean.

Can you believe this guy is the "chief political writer" for CBS? The Democrats lost 2 Governorships in 2004, and gained 2; and Democrats widely gained in state legislatures across the nation, moving from a nationwide ~70 seat deficit to the Republicans, to a slim majority over the Republicans, who only gained in the South. I don't even know where to begin with the "on the verge" hypothesis which sounds like an un-cooked crock.

We've covered this extensively here on this blog, any layman off the street could look at the 2004 results to find out the facts; what does the CBS chief political writer David Paul Kuhn do for his day job? I'd guess it's spent reading RNC frames of Democratic values & watching Faux News for election analysis, but it just a guess...

In case you missed the new tune in town, the "moderate wing" of the Democratic Party "opposes abortion" and the "liberal wing" is "antiwar and pro-abortion".

If you feel slightly amazed that you now find yourself standing on the far left wing of your own party, alongside 80-90% of the rest of the Democratic Party, in opposition to the unilateral occupation in Iraq, and to government intrusion of a woman's body (otherwise framed as "antiwar and pro-abortion"), join the club.

And feel free to steal the Donkey Brand for Dean blogad, created by Miles Kurland off of the Oliver Willis branding narrative for the Democratic Wing of the Democratic Party.



Display:


Branding (none / 0)

They need to set up some graphic standards for that branding idea if it is going to be successful. I've seen it now with three different fronts and the donkey in various sizes in reation to the type. Is the font Caslon or Caslon Bold? And what's with the blue and red gradients behind the completely out of left field type for the pitch slide with Dean's name?

Sorry to be less than constructive (long day),  but I hate to see a good idea go to waste by not focusing on the details and following established conventions.

Witty comment goes here...
by michael in chicago on Tue Nov 23, 2004 at 10:37:29 PM EST

Re: Branding (none / 0)

I might as well respond because I did this blog ad. My design decisions weren't capricious or arbitrary. You may still not particularly like the result, which is fair enough... but I assure you that there was a good deal of thought that went into it.

I'm using Caslon Bold on these. Why not Caslon Regular? At the small point size needed for the web, the bold type has significantly more presence and legibility.  If the ad was larger - or designed for print -  I would probably have used the Regular style.

As far as donkey size in relation to type goes, even a fairly rigid style guide (and I've worked with more than a few for corporate clients) would have accommodations for different media and contexts. In this instance, given the form factor of blog ads, if the donkey were proportioned relative to the type as it is in the 'posters' on Oliver's site, the donkey would be tiny. That's not very visually arresting... and something that people would barely be able to 'read' certainly doesn't help to reinforce branding effectively.

Finally, the use of gradients and the type change for the final frame was also for visual impact. All the frames of the animation are effectively 'teasers' for the final frame. I wanted to clearly distinguish  that frame from all the others to insure that it gets special notice. Hence the gradients and the type change. Such differences catch the eye much more than visual consistency across all the frames would.

Of course, the attractiveness of a graphic is a matter of personal opinion and taste. But the effectiveness of a blogAd is possible to measure: if it gets a lot of click-throughs, it's a winner. If not... it's not.  

Time will tell if this particular ad achieves the objective of getting folks to click on it.  I sure hope it does. I'm very committed to getting the greatest possible support for Dean's DNC bid.

by Malacandra on Tue Nov 23, 2004 at 11:20:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Commenting less on your design (none / 0)

that the misc. styles I've seen these ads done in. Please don't take it personally. I didn't mean to imply your design decisions where capricious or arbitrary. Just that there seems to be a lack of consistent style between many of the incarnations this has taken - not specifically to your work.
Witty comment goes here...
by michael in chicago on Wed Nov 24, 2004 at 12:37:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I understand (none / 0)

And your points are well taken.
by Malacandra on Wed Nov 24, 2004 at 01:00:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Branding (none / 0)

Please let me know and suggest guidelines. I'm not a graphics pro, at all. The font is Adobe Caslon.
by owillis on Wed Nov 24, 2004 at 06:48:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Branding (none / 0)

Oliver, the font is excellent.  Don't change a thing.  We can get on the same page pretty easy.  Its ideas like yours that are going to bring us back to where America needs us--in power.
by Robwaldeck on Wed Dec 08, 2004 at 11:25:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm Mentioning Dean (none / 0)

Whenever anybody asks me what Dean is going to do now that the election is over (sigh, not everybody knows about Democracy for America,) I tell them that he is very active with speaking engagements, publicizing his new book, and planning for future grassroots projects.  Then I inform them that nearly 40% of the Dean Dozen candidates were elected to their respective offices, and many others gave their competition a run for the money (sigh, then I have to explain the Dean Dozens.)

If they are still listening, I tell them that there is a movement to install Dean as the new Chair of the DNC.  And if they're not listening, I tell'em anyway.

by donna in evanston on Tue Nov 23, 2004 at 11:09:30 PM EST

It's the media stupid! (3.00 / 2)

This CBS story is just the latest example and shows why all the moaning over framing, moral values, how Kerry messed up, etc. etc, ad nauseum is completely beside the point.

As long as the media spin their spin, we can parse issues and frame all we want and it won't make a bit of difference.  The media will continue lying as they always do.

We must first of all free ourselves from their grip.   And then we must figure out a way to attack the corporate media directly.

by Alan S on Tue Nov 23, 2004 at 11:50:38 PM EST

Re: It's the media stupid! (none / 0)

CBS has moved way to the right over the last year. First they shelved Reagan's documentary, then they refused the MoveOn ad "Child's Pay," then they hung Rather out to dry on "MemoGate," then they killed the Iraqi yellowcake story until after the election.

And now this. We need a letter-writing campaign on this "Foxification" sh*t, along the lines of the Dean Defense Teams from the primary season.

If you're always playing the fear card, it's a pretty good sign you're not playing with a full deck!
by Mathwiz on Wed Nov 24, 2004 at 03:09:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

That explains a lot (none / 0)

If the liberal wing of the Democratic Party is 90%  and the moderate wing is 10%, that explains why we can't seem to do anything but go in circles.
by rusty on Tue Nov 23, 2004 at 11:50:55 PM EST

Where is the Liberal Media (none / 0)

I know where the lazy media are, the arrogant media, the "we think we're celebrities media", but not the liberal media.   I remember working for Senator Bradleys presidential campaign.  I was looking for the liberal media then too.  They were much to busy to cover us because they were fawning over John McCain.

Howard Dean for DNC Chair!  Let's really give the chattering classes something to talk about.

  • A Liberal Primal Screen

  • by erickh on Tue Nov 23, 2004 at 11:56:51 PM EST

    Re: The Abortion Button is Dangerous (none / 0)

    That was pretty much what Kerry said during the campaign and describes a good portion of the dem. party's view to a tee.  I believe only a small minority of people in our country are truly "pro-abortion"  Kerry's moderate views (at least the one's that were proclaimed to the country during the last year) were part of the reason that he tagged a "flip flopper" and lost the election.  Americans detest nuance (it seems to confuse people) and, unfortunatly, your positive suggestion may have very negative consequnces.
    by latkah left on Wed Nov 24, 2004 at 03:48:13 AM EST

    Re: The Abortion Button is Dangerous (3.00 / 1)

    The only people who are pro-abortion are the population reduction crowd. I find it an insult to be labled that way.
    by Jerome Armstrong on Wed Nov 24, 2004 at 06:08:53 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: The Abortion Button is Dangerous (none / 0)

    Agreed. We are not "pro-abortion," and certainly not "anti-life;" we are "pro-choice!" We don't think abortions are an unqualified Good Thing; we simply recognize that outlawing abortion does far more harm than good.

    I'd like to ask my "anti-abortion" brethren whether they support reducing the need for abortions by making contraceptives readily available; if they instead believe contraceptives should be restricted to, say, married couples only, then I think the true description of their Weltanschauung is "anti-sex."

    If you're always playing the fear card, it's a pretty good sign you're not playing with a full deck!
    by Mathwiz on Wed Nov 24, 2004 at 02:49:15 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: The Abortion Button is Dangerous (none / 0)

    actually part of what I was saying was that very few people are really pro-abortion and my blogg was promted by the use of that termonology.    
    by latkah left on Wed Nov 24, 2004 at 07:07:10 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: The Abortion Button is Dangerous (2.00 / 2)

    I too am anti-abortion. I too find it absolutely abhorrent and hope that we can succeed in bringing the abortion numbers down to the absolute minimum.I mean that with all of my heart. I'm looking at my 16 month old sleep next to his momma as I type this and this issue breaks more heart all the more.

    BUT...

    I don't think Demorats are pro-abortion, if anything we are pro-humping. That is to say, we are in favor of family planning by promoting various forms of contraception that effectively stops fertilization from taking place, you know, before life is created in any sense of the phrase. Couple this with a healthy attitude about sex, facilitating a cuture of sensitivity to emotions, and a mind your own business outlook on life, I would say we are poised to take the lead on this issue.

    by JerrySacramento on Wed Nov 24, 2004 at 09:09:15 AM EST

    Re: The Abortion Button is Dangerous (none / 0)

    Couldn't agree with you more. If all of those anti-abortion/anti choice zelot would put all of their time money and energy into out reach program designed to help pregnate women and espically pregnate teens, they the hole roe v wade thing would be a non issue.  But they won't because it is a moral thing, and they believe because if it is illegal then it won't happen or they aren't happening.
    by likesun on Wed Nov 24, 2004 at 09:45:54 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Progessive Pro-Life (none / 0)

    I often think of myself as being both pro-choice and pro-life, but sometimes I think Democrats/Progressives should officially reframe there abortion position as "Progressive Pro-Life"

    which means you would still support choice and reproductive rights, but that you actually do want to reduce the number abortions by dealing with the various issues before the fact with family planning and after the fact with economic policies which eliminate the culture of despair that is increasingly plaguing this country.

    In addition Progressive Pro-Life can tie into other life promoting issues like health-care and more repsonible use of military force.

    Pro-Lifers have to realize that they are not going to make any progress going down that hard right path.  Vote against abortion and get tax cuts for the wealthy.  Vote against abortion and lose your job or have you wages lowered.  Vote against abortion and give you grandchildren an insurmountable deficit.  But never any progess on abortion itself.

    by RedStateIndie137 on Wed Nov 24, 2004 at 12:26:06 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Commodifying the Democratic Party (none / 0)

    The Brand Democrat idea is ok, but it shouldn't be taken too far. As long as it's kept to slogans and an ad campaign we're fine. If we start seeing this brand democrat stuff at official functions it will look just silly. The Dems do need to package their message in a more positive light, the brand democrat helps somewhat. Let's remember though, Democrats are traditionally for more than just capitalism. As almost all Dems are pro-capitalism, most also think corporations, advertisements, and business influence is far too great in our culture. I believe most Democrats are for a regulated capitalism that allows for workers and owners to do well, for all to have health care when they need it, as allows for pursuits other than money making ones(ie. Arts, Education, leisure).

    Our culture has gone crazy corporate and it's okay for us to realize it, and "brand" the Party to compete in this world. What we shouldn't do is get too carried away with it. This should be viewed as ad gimmick to change how people think about liberals and Democrats...not a basis for pushing our core messages.

    by spectator consumer on Wed Nov 24, 2004 at 10:17:47 AM EST

    Re: Commodifying the Democratic Party (none / 0)

    Do you really think so? The other way is not working so far.
    by owillis on Wed Nov 24, 2004 at 08:48:42 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: Commodifying the Democratic Party (none / 0)

    Well reading back over what I wrote, I think it came out more negative to the idea than I had intended. I do like that "brand Democrat" idea, and I think I probably shouldn't have used "gimmick."

    On another note, I think we should be prepared for the GOP, brand republican shirts, saying lower taxes, school choice, less gov't. To counter those we need to get ahead of the game and make our own brand GOP- preaching, deficits, war, outsourcing.

    by spectator consumer on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 02:30:10 AM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: The Abortion Button is Dangerous (3.00 / 2)

    I feel the exact opposite. I'd like to see Democratic candidates drive head on into that issue.

    Both sides want to reduce the amounts of abortions. The Republicans want to do so by removing a woman's control over her own body and restricting the flow of information. Democrats want to do so by improving education, medical care and economic opportunity for everyone. There methods continue to be a resounding failure, ours a resounding success,

    Put up or shut up. Their path is the path of failure, ours one of hope. Sounds like a good product to me.

    Our problem isn't what we're selling, just our hesitancy of selling it.

    Quit trying to split the middle. We sound weak. "Flip-floppy."

    We stand for freedom. We stand for education. We stand for jobs. That's how you strengthen the American family. That's how you solve the problem. It's what we call the American way.

    Editor
    Ohio 2nd Blog
    by ignatzmouse on Wed Nov 24, 2004 at 10:33:21 AM EST

    Re: The Abortion Button is Dangerous (3.00 / 2)

    It's great to see so many people willing to self-identify as "anti-abortion."  Here are a couple of questions for you:

    1. Women soldiers who are raped (by our own soldiers, in Iraq, or on military bases) and who subsequently get pregnant presently cannot end their pregnancies in a military hospital, because abortions are not permitted there.  Would you agree that women soldiers should receive treatment in military hospitals to end their rape induced pregnancies?  

    2. There have been reports of "pro-life" pharmacists refusing to fill legitimate prescriptions for contraceptives.  They are supposed to hand the prescription back to the woman and direct her to another pharmacy that will fill it but in some cases, even that doesn't happen.  What about women who are trying to prevent pregnancy but can't get their scripts filled?

    Moderation is not the course of action that is needed here.  Here is how the Democrats should frame the issue:  "The practice of medicine is none of the government's business and they ought to stay out of it.  This is a private relationship between the physician, the patient and whoever the patient chooses to involve."

    That is what will set us apart from the Republicans.

    by KimPossible on Wed Nov 24, 2004 at 12:45:31 PM EST

    Re: The Abortion Button is Dangerous (2.00 / 1)

    I guess I needed to be more clear on this...

    1. I don't have all of the answers.
    2. I didn't explicitly say that I want abortion made illegal. The procedure should be made freely available in the safest medical environment to anyone that wishes to have one.
    3. My point was that through education, taking responsibility for your reproductive functions, and economic outreach we can bring the numbers to the lowest count possible.

    But good points to frame the issue. The victims of violent sexual crimes need the right, just as any of us, to make a choice.

    But we should also be willing to step outside of the graphic and grim arguements that are so often associated with this issue and figure out a better way to formulate the message. I like Progressive Pro-Life, though I don't think its entirely on the mark as blurbs go, but the sentiment is there.

    I guess the bottom line is that we will get demolished as a party if we take what APPEARS to be a Pro-Abortion stance.

    But let me reiterate, I just muddling along on this issue.

    by JerrySacramento on Wed Nov 24, 2004 at 01:06:30 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: The Abortion Button is Dangerous (none / 0)

    Looks like you started a pretty good debate, though.

    I think the problem here is that it's too late for the Democrats to reclaim the term "anti-abortion." Everyone from all sides now recognizes the term as meaning "anti-choice."

    That may be why the Kerry/Cuomo position of "I personally oppose abortion, but I support keeping it legal" fails; the statement sounds like an oxymoron. On this issue, I think Bill Clinton framed it best: abortion should be safe, legal, and rare. To which I'd only add: rare because it's rarely necessary, not because it's hard to obtain when it becomes necessary.

    If you're always playing the fear card, it's a pretty good sign you're not playing with a full deck!
    by Mathwiz on Wed Nov 24, 2004 at 03:00:21 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Practice of Medicine (none / 0)

    The practice of medicine is none of the government's business and they ought to stay out of it.  This is a private relationship between the physician, the patient and whoever the patient chooses to involve.

    That's a great position statement. I only hope we'll all be consistent in that position when the issue is not abortion, but medical marijuana.

    If you're always playing the fear card, it's a pretty good sign you're not playing with a full deck!
    by Mathwiz on Wed Nov 24, 2004 at 03:03:56 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    check out what the repubs think about dean (none / 0)

    if you want any evidence that Dean isn't about to drive us off a cliff, check out what these conservatives are saying about him. All this talk about Dean as threat to the Democratic majority is dumb. When they talk about Hillary, they can't wait to run against her, but Dean seems to inspire respect of a worthy opponent.

    http://www.redstate.org/story/2004/11/23/21918/931

    by srolle on Wed Nov 24, 2004 at 01:01:48 PM EST

    Mis-branding (none / 0)

    Shouldn't we be reserving Oliver's "Brand Democrat" imagery for external communications -- things that try to build the party's image with the general public?

    The last thing we want is to have it identified with internal party squabbles.  The whole point is to project a confident, unified party image.  How does attaching that to a "Dean for DNC chair" campaign (which is going to lead to some Dems saying "no thanks", which is going to lead to them trashing the branded pieces, which is going to lead to people making the wrong associations with the brand) advance this goal?

    by jalefkowit on Wed Nov 24, 2004 at 02:43:38 PM EST

    Re: Mis-branding (none / 0)

    Good point, though I think the brand is for all things Democrat. It's sort of lost on the diehards anyway, its for folks not already committed to the party. If any wing wants to use it, I say more power to 'em.
    by owillis on Wed Nov 24, 2004 at 06:53:18 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Dean's 2008 ?? (none / 0)

    Has Dean made any statement on the DNC job affecting his 2008 plans? Maybe I've missed something, but I don't think he has, since he's still being publicly coy about his interest in the DNC job. Unless Dean renounces any 2008 ambitions, I don't see him chairing the DNC. It'd be unprecedented to use a party chairmanship as a springboard for one's own candidacy in the upcoming election. A party chairmanship is also usually seen as a job beneath a credible presidential candidate.

    While the Dems didn't take the beating that Goldwater did in 1964, there is a lesson for the party in what the Republicans did in the aftermath. They installed a "nuts & bolts" pro, Ray Bliss of Ohio, at the RNC and focused on winning elections more than ideology. There may not be an obvious DNC candidate with similar credentials, but I have a lot of doubt that making the DNC job an ideological battle will be a good long-term strategy.

    by SLinVA on Wed Nov 24, 2004 at 03:11:06 PM EST

    Re: Dean's 2008 ?? (none / 0)

    I don't think it's an ideological battle at all. It's a reform battle, making the Democratic Party responsive to the grassroots, instead of only having their ear to the Hill; and this isn't at all like 1964, where we have the liberty of just focusing on winning elections. The DC Democrats keep using this bankrupt strategy of focusing on just enough seats to win back 51 seats, or 218 seats, or just the 10 battleground states, when the critical rebuilding issue is making the Democratic movement national.... and Dean is the only person who seems to understand and act on that point.
    by Jerome Armstrong on Wed Nov 24, 2004 at 07:22:57 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    The Democratic Party is not the Liberal Party (none / 0)

    If you feel slightly amazed that you now find yourself standing on the far left wing of your own party, alongside 80-90% of the rest of the Democratic Party, in opposition to the unilateral occupation in Iraq, and to government intrusion of a woman's body (otherwise framed as "antiwar and pro-abortion"), join the club.

    The issue for years has been that the liberals on the coasts have taken over the party and they have. I have no numbers, but I would daresay that moderates far outnumber liberals in the Party, they just have no voice in the leadership or media.

    Moderate Democrats are progressive, but not liberal. The mistake liberals make is in labeling. It is true that more people than not are pro-choice, but they are pro-choice for VERY different reasons. The content of the pro-choice value is not uniform. If we considered many other positions that Democrats seem to jointly hold, we'd see that labels may be similar, but intent and content of terms or phrases differ significantly.

    If you look at the Black community, the reason why republicans are not getting more Blacks is because of the historical context of overt racism. However, all things being equal, Blacks resonate quite well with a lot of conservative values. The only reason why the Democratic Party has the Black community in its pocket is not because Blacks are liberal, it is because the Party put its neck on the line for Black civil rights. That's the link.

    I guess my point is that if you dice up coalitions in the Democratic Party, Blacks, Latinos, Unions, the hook is not liberalism, it is more political convenience. I think it would be a mistake to try to frame the party as a party of liberals, because moderates either leave or become inactive (I see literally dozens and dozens of these inactives, who are pro-life Catholics).

    My take on what's been going on in lib blogsphere is that the left has felt marginalized and is trying to re-assert itself. Fair enough.

    I think the frame should be more along the lines that Democrats believe in people, we believe that with help, from gov't or neighbors, people can rise and live the promise of the American dream. It seems that the bedrock of the Democratic party is in "being my brother's keeper." That in itself is the heart of progressiveness--"corporate" or "communal" responsibility. We fight for the environment because we are not simply out for our individual gain: we fight for civil rights because if you are not free we are not all free, etc.

    I just feel there has to be a little more parsing out of the terms, i.e, liberal is not synonymous with progressive, and moderates and conservatives can also be progressive. And that the Democratic Party should not be framed as the liberal party, but as a coalition of progressives because more Democrats than not are moderate. IMVHO

    by Ono on Wed Nov 24, 2004 at 03:47:42 PM EST

    Re: The Democratic Party is not the Liberal Party (none / 0)

    On the label of moderate or liberal, I dunno, that's not what the post was about. It was about calling the positions of being "pro-abortion and anti-war" fringe liberal.  Being pro-choice and against the war on Iraq is a position held by 80-90% of the Democratic Party voters.
    by Jerome Armstrong on Wed Nov 24, 2004 at 07:25:05 PM EST
    [ Parent ]

    Re: The Abortion Button is Dangerous (none / 0)

    The number of abortions under George Bush's first term rose dramatically compared to the number of abortions under Clinton.  Why?  Because people feel less economically secure; they're afraid to bring a child into the world who might go hungry (like the 20% of children who are already living below the poverty line).

    This is a fundamental choice of anyone who wishes to be a good parent but lacks the resources to care for a child.

    If Republicans want to decrease abortions, they ought to promote policies that help families, children, and the poor.  They don't.

    Preserving a family's right to chooose when it can manage to bring a child into the world is a fundamental American freedom.  It is also the most core value of the Democratic party, and we can't ever back down from it.    

    by giveusair on Wed Nov 24, 2004 at 06:40:47 PM EST

    Can abortion be discussed? (none / 0)

    It seems certain Bush will soon have a vacancy on the Supreme Court.  Given the most partisan senate in history,is it possible to have any thoughtful discussion before or during any confirmation hearings? I find it offensive and heartbreaking that democrats have been characterized as baby killers.
    The bills forced on us by the religious right make no sense in terms of promoting "pro-life". I remember the pro-choice campaign in the 70's being about women having control over their bodies. The pro-lifers have so successfully changed this debate using such horrible imagery that many people instantly recoil at the subject and back down. Since Roe v Wade will be at the forefront very soon, does anyone think it's possible for a civilized debate about reproductive rights, and more specifically, for a positive message to emerge? The Kerry/Cuomo position always struck me as a defensive apology.
    by xpat on Wed Nov 24, 2004 at 11:32:11 PM EST

    Re: Time to let the Democratic Party go (none / 0)

    I disagree.  Panic button moves might make people feel better emotionally because they've "done something" but the fact is that the Democratic Party is alive and well and no CBS reporter's B.S. story is going to change that.  

    We have to slow down.  This is the slow time in Washington, D.C. and nobody is doing anything on either side of the aisle.   Things will start to heat up in January.  Let's see how the new team does before we just call for their heads.  I'd bet that, despite losing the Presidency, the Democrats are going to be more powerful come January than they have been for the last year.  

    Remember from whence we came.  Last year at this time we were just waking up from our long post-9/11 slumber.  The nutcase Republicans currently at the levers didn't get there overnight and we won't displace them overnight either.  The path to electoral victory is a long, slow, boring one which is won day in and day out, not in the last five months of a Presidential campaign.

    Where the hell you going to go anyway?  Nader?  He  got 1/3 of a percent.  The Greens?  Less than a third of a percent as well.  We Democrats be just gettin' started.

    by Robwaldeck on Wed Dec 08, 2004 at 11:21:25 PM EST

    Moderate wing??? (none / 0)

    Reid is an embarrassment for the Democratic Party.

    I am glad he is being attacked by the Right as "racist" for his comments about Scalia and Thomas. He deserves a buggering from every big fat idiot in this country.

    And so do the Dems who elect a goddamn conservative their leader. When will they learn???

    by enfant terrible on Thu Dec 09, 2004 at 01:40:34 PM EST


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