Wow, you have special powers.
Look, I'm listening to the CC and telling you what they are saying. If you feel that I'm being partial in relaying what they are saying, point it out.
only a partial commenter can report on the Clinton campaign's call to include MI and FL in the delegate and popular-vote totals without pointing out that, back in October, Clinton explained that she was keeping her name on the MI ballot because everyone knew the primary wasn't going to count.
It's not clear at all in your post where the conference call stops and your own analysis begins. Specifically,
The Clinton campaign emphasizes that they believe the FL and MI delegates "should be seated in full representation". If you do add in FL and MI, with both the delegate total and the popular vote, it currently stands at Obama having a lead by 26 delegates, 1916-1890, with 55 being uncommitted from MI, 32 with Edwards, and 522 remaining delegates to be chosen (217 delegates and 305 superdelegates). On the allowing for the full seating of MI and FL, if Obama gets to the point where he has enough delegates to win the nomination despite MI & FL being seated, then ultimately, that would be the best route for Obama to go through, even though it seems unlikely.
On the allowing for the full seating of MI and FL, if Obama gets to the point where he has enough delegates to win the nomination despite MI & FL being seated, then ultimately, that would be the best route for Obama to go through, even though it seems unlikely.
No one believes that FL and MI are going to be seated at full strength with no MI delegates for Obama.
Well, if you were on the call, you would have heard, that the Clinton campaign does in fact say that those 55 are uncommitted.
Yes, but in your post it's not at all clear that these are the Clinton campaign's words, and not yours. Read over it again and I think you'll see what I mean.
The wording, combined with what many (including myself) perceive to be a long-running strong pro-Clinton/anti-Obama personal preference on your part, make it look like you're parroting Clinton talking points.
The Clinton campaign has been in fantasy la la land since February. I don't see you lending credence to the views of other delusional crazies. Why do you want to risk your credibility by continuing to cling to the utter crap coming out of the Hilaryous camp? Why not do your continued credibility as a voice in the effort to get democrats elected a favor and reject this clap trap completely. Just ignore it like you would a toddler throwing a fit after a loss at Chutes and Ladders. It's not like she's really a democrat or shows any loyalty to the party anymore.
The sooner we all start to ignore her and let her go about screaming and frothing at the mouth as she heads down the path to irrelevance that begins with betraying one's party, the sooner we can force McSame to start paying for his own opposition research instead of getting a free pass while Hilaryous goes 11 million in debt to do it for him.
The stated goal of your website is to help democrats get elected. If that's truly what you want, then the most productive thing you can do is to encourage Hilaryous to get the hell out of the way.
At this point if she keeps up with this bullshit about Michigan and Florida even though the average 5 year old knows her argument is disingenuous (the sham contests in Fla and Mi don't count per her own campaign's arrangements), it WILL destroy her career and legacy. Florida and Michigan will NEVER be seated as is and an arrangement will only be reached after it makes no difference.
If she keeps this up, I will start a conversation on various blogs about funding a primary challenge for her when she next has to defend her seat in the senate. I'm always happy to see a DLCer replaced by a democrat anyway. She can start acting like a democrat or many of us will work to get rid of her. More and BETTER democrats.
trollish post has reminded me of why I will continue to support Hillary until the last delegate, super or otherwise, has cast his or her vote and FL and MI has been resolved. While I admire Obama tremendously and would gladly support him as our nominee, the thought of working with persons such as yourself deeply saddens and troubles me. I have been a passionate supporter of Hillary for quite sometime now, but after last night I was forced to begin coming to terms with the idea of letting go and how it is very much like the grieving process. Your post was like a jolt of caffein to my system, and I realized I am no where near ready to let go. As long as Hillary continues her fight, I will be there with her. I believe she has the best chance to beat McCain and it is on to West Virginia! I do know that the vast majority of Obama supporters are fine, reasonable, spirited individuals. There are some, however, that really don't get what Obama is saying...
Every candidate is going to have supporters who act like a**holes sometimes. Clinton has them, too. They key is to not let those few awful supporters distract from all the decent folk.
When you're ready to come around, there's plenty of good folk on this side to talk to. Sidestep jerks and you'll find us quick enough.
So now I'm a jerk for not forgiving the horrible person that is Hilary Clinton. I'm sorry. It's not all ok. As I said, she can get out of the way and I'll drop it.
I can list the grievances if you want, but the point is this:
I liked Hilary before the primary season started. I find a whole lot about her behavior in this contest to be offensive and dishonorable. I am no more of a troll for that than the people who've bought the taylor marsh and alegre and little otter lies (and those people peddle almost exclusively lies) are for their disdain for Obama.
The part that really gets me though is this:
I will NEVER be convinced of anything but that almost all of her supporters know but won't admit that the Florida and Michigan issue is absolutely dishonest bullshit. HILARY'S campaign took part in crafting the agreement and the agreed to it. Hilary's failure to take her name off of the Michigan ballot was dishonest. It was not a mistake for Barack to be good for his word by removing his name from the ballot like just about all of the other candidates did too. I am partially mad at Hilary for insulting america by pretending like we're all a bunch of 3 year olds who won't get it. I am even more angry at her supporters for pretending like they ARE 3 years old and don't get it.
I also will never forgive her for functioning as a McCain surrogate. "The GOP will do it anyway" is no excuse. We're better than them because we aren't that sort of creep.
Lastly, I am an engineer and an atheist. I live my entire life based on the idea that making decisions to disregard math and science is a VERY dangerous thing to do and has about a 95% failure rate (as is now evidenced by Hilary's campaign's collapse). All Hilary's supporters have had for strategy since super tuesday is to look at the math and go "Nuh-uh." It's really stupid and it's McCain's best chance.
You want trolls, look at the other side of the conversation.
I have a 3 year old son and a 2 year old daughter. The need for a democratic president that doesn't serve as a veto pen while our congressional majorities that our party enjoys make an effort to restore for my children the civil right that I have enjoyed is far more important than Hilary's stupid fucking ego if it comes at a cost to the actual nominee's chances in November especially if the tactics have to be flagrantly dishonest shit like the Michigan/Florida shit.
The mood in this country is anti- republican more so than anytime in decades. McSame is an extremely week candidate. It's a dream for those of us who want a democratic president. The only thing that can stand in the way is Hilary destroying Barack's chances. She cannot win the nomination. The only thing she can do is to cripple Barack not getting the fuck out of the way and SHE'S DOING ALL SHE CAN TO FUCK IT UP!!
She is a horrible human being. I will never forgive her. I WILL drop it if she gets out of the way. If not, I WILL try to find a way for this to cost her.
I couldn't agree more with a post than this. Hillary chose this path and it's become a spiral of death. Not only for her candidacy but for the Dems chances of winning in November. Every time I thought she couldn't go any lower, she did.
I seriously can't tell the difference between most of the "logic" her camp uses these days from the typical Republican crap we've been forced to deal with these last 8 to 10 years. The biggest pile of dog shit is their Florida and Michigan strategy. I can't stand people who change the rules after the fact to suite them. Democrats here ought to be sickened by her efforts, not applaud them. "Do anything to win" isn't something I've EVER supported and besides that, it's so damn short-sighted.
The energy of this campaign has been generated by one candidate, Obama. He's winning by all legitimate measures. Hell, he's won! To send those new troops home now by stealing the election will prove, once and for all, that our government is really run by one party. We're supposed to stand for something better.
I never called you a jerk and I certainly know you are entitled to your own opinions. I called your post trollish because it is. It's not necessarily what you say, it's the nasty way you say it:
she is a horrible human being
that gets you a troll rating here everytime.
So, I am entitled to my opinion unless my opinion is that she is a horrible human being?!
Basically I got trolled for my opinion. That's specifically against the rules for troll rating.
Besides... she IS a horrible human being.
Again with you Hilary folks the rules apply to everyone ELSE. For you though, the rules change according to your convenience.
Undo your TR or you're as big a hypocrite as your lost cause candidate.
for your opinion. You got TR'd for:
from the rules
Users who are bashing or attacking any other user on the site, including authors of diaries and frontpage postings, will be banned. Candidates and politicians are fair game (but that doesn't mean you can use inflammatory language against candidates).
Please reread your posts. You will see that your descriptions of Hillary are inflammatory.
How should I state that Hilary is lacking entirely in any honor and is a basically bad person who has used her station in life to amplify her bad deeds and intents over the course of the nomination race?
It is my opinion that Hilary is a terrible human being. I didn't start singing "DING DONG" from the Wizard of Oz or drop a C-bomb or anything like that.
If you can't handle somebody pointing out that your candidate is not honorable and that the party would be better off without someone so disloyal as to place personal ego above the well being of the party then perhaps you should spend your time on something other than politics (like maybe a trip to Woolworth's for some Kleenex) as you haven't a thick enough skin for it (or an aptitude for picking a winner evidently).
crickets
sweet! Please encourage her to ruin her career. Not only will my candidate still win, but Hilary will be exposed for the creep that she is too. Please, encourage and support her. It's the only way that I can have both of my goals:
An Obama candidacy AND Hilary paying the price for her behavior.
Please continue.
"The sooner we all start to ignore her and let her go about screaming and frothing at the mouth as she heads down the path to irrelevance that begins with betraying one's party, the sooner we can force McSame to start paying for his own opposition research instead of getting a free pass while Hilaryous goes 11 million in debt to do it for him. "
Bravo!
I think what a lot of people are responding to Jerome is your tendency to report without editorializing the analyses of the Clinton spin machine, while, with Obama's spin you tend to get brutal and sarcastic. Yes in this case you seem to just be telling us what they are saying but its hard to let go of the whole pattern.
And if the Clinton campaing says that the delegates from Mars are going to be seated - you would dutifully report that. Clinton is finished -no momentum, no money, not enough delegates to catch up and the media are finally realizing it. thye can spin all they want - but it is over. the only question is how graceful the exit will be. Obama can challenge McCain on the unnecessary war in Iraq - and clinton can't. He makes the better candidate - period. the polls will reflect that in the next few weeks and Clinton wil drop out as more people realize the inevitable.
