Obama really passed up a big chance to settle with Hillary and be VP. It would have gotten him a seat at the table like Gore got and likely a very strong chance at president in 2016 with the Clinton machine behind him.
The Obama machine has been totally immune to ridicule in the primaries because the Democrats don't want to lose the youth vote. Ridicule will cut through Obama like a hot knife through butter.
Issues that will hurt Obama....
Yearbook photo Muslim youth complete with I stand with the muslims quote Quotes from his book The whole I am Jesus angle from his campaign The war Taking the progressive view to the general will hurt him badly. Issues with gays hurting his base Drugs Dancing on Ellen's TV show ( I like the soup's superposition of two 5 year olds with them) The Democrats for McCain campaign rezko house issue rezko auchi visa issue rezko auchi power plant in Iraq issue Exelon Nuke power legislation influence issue Auchi and Saddam are pals issue writing letter for rezko to get 14 mill isssue Lack of experience issue Raising taxes issue Race quotes and issues Wedge issues to separate women. Childhood getting beat up by Indonesian kids Racist church Africa centric quotes Daily kos issue
Not all the things you mention on your list would gain traction, but some of them surely would. And the nature of this primary contest, as you note, has largely shielded him from a trial audition in showing us his licks at combatting them.
See: Google Clinton scandals
A vetted list of Clinton fund-raising scandals: Everything you ever wanted to know about the Clintons' shadiest donors.
I would sing...
"Who want's yesterday's papers?"
...but I know you would respond...
"Who want's yesterday's girl?"
Right? :)
Hi NL.
There's nothing like fresh red meat to keep the scandal mongers in business. We may see what false and only partially false dirt gets dug up on Obama just in time for the General Election. And whether he holds up as well under attack over them as Hillary does.
Great to see you after quite a while. Hope you're doing well.
I would sing..."Who want's yesterday's papers?"
Well, it depends on how much those old scandals were exposed back then. I'd say that many weren't in order to save them for when HRC would run (which everyone knew she would do, sooner or later).
...but I know you would respond... "Who want's yesterday's girl?" Right? :)
Not really :)
She was probably a better in 2000 (although had no formal political credentials) than she is now, in my view. But it's her war record (IWR, Kyl-Lieberman) that makes her far less attractive as a Dem nominee (as you know).
He has to be alert and agile and run a strong rapid response team (of the kind Clarkies and some of Gorista were doing back in the day :)). He showed in SC that he won't take nonsense lying down (pls see here).
I'm well enough, all things considered. Yes Hillary's war related votes are hurting her in the primary season, no doubt about it. But I honestly am under the opinion that she and Obama are not very far apart on foreign policy moving forward from here. How her past/present positions combined will serve her up against McCain relative to Obama's past/present positions should he be the nominee is a much more complex matter. Actually I think she is well positioned in that regard against McCain, but I know opinions differ on that.
No doubt there will mud enough for Republicans to sling againt any Democrat running - but it might look more immediately unseemly plastered against a knight's formerly shining white armor than splashed upon an old veteran's well worn uniform.
I suspect Obama will be able to assemble a high quality staff and a core of hard and nimble supporters if he gets the nomination. I don't deny that Obama is an impressive politician and natural talent, I just think he would have been a lot stronger had fate given him a full term in the Senate and one reelection already under his belt - or a couple of terms as VP before he first ran for President.
On the war front, could you please go over this documentation (and why, IMO, she has a losing argument against JM since he can paint her as a flip-flopper and himself a hero because of the "surge". Obama can say that we should never have authorized/waged this war) here?
"a full term in the Senate and one reelection already under his belt"
Too many years as senator can be a good thing or a bad thing (depending on what state the tripartite govt exists in). In terms of where the country and the planet are at, we need a movement candidate as badly as we needed it in 2004. Clinton is a machine/establishment candidate (she's the leading funds-getter from lobbyists and PACs, even ahead of McCain, and she was fending for lobbyists at Yearly Kos). Given how Obama performed against the mighty Clinton machine so far, one has to give him a ton of credit.
You seem to be walking towards supporting Clinton. I'd be disappointed to see that (given that you were a genuine opponent of this dumb war).
I may or may not have time to give you that response. I am packing for a business trip right now and out of blogging time. My time on the road to do so is limited but if I can I will.
My top three choices for 08 were Clark, Gore, and Feingold, and none of them ran, alas.
Like with Kerry, I am confident that if she had been President, Hillary would not have gotten us into this mess.
Without going to your link (for now) the core of an argument Clinton could give was that she gave Bush the right tool for the job he had to do and instead he used it to go out and committ an unprovoked murder. "Leverage" got the U.N. inspectors back into Iraq, and they would have found no WMD there had Bush done what a responsible President would have done - let them finish their work. Hillary can say, "knowing what I know now, I would not make that same vote - John, will you say the same?"
Sorry for the rushed reply but I gotta run.....
Hillary didn't tell Bush to not invade Iraq in March 2003, when the inspectors were reporting that no WMD could be found. She was cheerleading Bush like this:
March 17, 2003 Statement of Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton on the President's Remarks to the Nation When the President of the United States addresses the nation about possible military action, it is a solemn occasion for every American. Tonight, the President gave Saddam Hussein one last chance to avoid war, and the world hopes that Saddam Hussein will finally hear this ultimatum, understand the severity of those words, and act accordingly. While we wish there were more international support for the effort to disarm Saddam Hussein, at this critical juncture it is important for all of us to come together in support of our troops and pray that, if war does occur, this mission is accomplished swiftly and decisively with minimum loss of life and civilian casualties. I have had the honor of meeting and speaking with many of our brave men and women in uniform. They are the best trained, equipped, and motivated military in the entire world, we support them fully and we are grateful for their courageous service in these difficult times.
Statement of Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton on the President's Remarks to the Nation
When the President of the United States addresses the nation about possible military action, it is a solemn occasion for every American. Tonight, the President gave Saddam Hussein one last chance to avoid war, and the world hopes that Saddam Hussein will finally hear this ultimatum, understand the severity of those words, and act accordingly. While we wish there were more international support for the effort to disarm Saddam Hussein, at this critical juncture it is important for all of us to come together in support of our troops and pray that, if war does occur, this mission is accomplished swiftly and decisively with minimum loss of life and civilian casualties. I have had the honor of meeting and speaking with many of our brave men and women in uniform. They are the best trained, equipped, and motivated military in the entire world, we support them fully and we are grateful for their courageous service in these difficult times.
At that point she knew there was no power on Earth, other than God striking down Bush and Cheney, that would stop Bush from invading. We were going to war.
See ya...
P.S.
We almost got a chance to be fighting on the same team already, but unfortunately we missed out on that opportunity. I look forward to doing so soon though with you, one way or another.
"Obama really passed up a big chance to settle with Hillary and be VP. It would have gotten him a seat at the table like Gore got and likely a very strong chance at president in 2016 with the Clinton machine behind him."
Things didn't exactly work out all that great for Gore. He did his part and helped Clinton win and then worked hard during their admin, but got a raw deal in return:
Obama's best shot now is going all the way this year and Clinton would make a great Supreme Court justice!
Gore was his own worst enemy. If it was legal Bill would have had a third term easy against Bush. Obama's ability to seal the deal is far superior to Gore's given similar achievements (which Obama doesn't yet have).
After all Hillary is largely running on the strength of being the other VP during the Clinton years...
"If it was legal Bill would have had a third term easy against Bush."
Well, show me which poll showed WJC winning.
Here are polls that suggest to the exact opposite:
Pew Center poll Released: September 14, 2000 Introduction and Summary Clinton fatigue, which first surfaced more than a year ago, has not diminished. In fact, more voters today completely agree with the statement "I am tired of all the problems associated with the Clinton administration," than did a year ago (48% vs. 36% in August 1999). Clinton fatigue is prevalent among all major demographic groups. Even 56% of Democrats say they have grown weary of Clinton, and fully 78% of independents agree. The percent of voters who wish Clinton could run for a third term has remained steady since last year. Just one-quarter wish Clinton could run again, while seven-in-ten disagree. ------------- I wish Bill Clinton could run for a third term Sep'00: Agree (27%), Disagree (71%) Aug'99: Agree (28%), Disagree (71%) Mar'99: Agree (28%), Disagree (71%)
Released: September 14, 2000
Introduction and Summary
Clinton fatigue, which first surfaced more than a year ago, has not diminished. In fact, more voters today completely agree with the statement "I am tired of all the problems associated with the Clinton administration," than did a year ago (48% vs. 36% in August 1999).
Clinton fatigue is prevalent among all major demographic groups. Even 56% of Democrats say they have grown weary of Clinton, and fully 78% of independents agree. The percent of voters who wish Clinton could run for a third term has remained steady since last year. Just one-quarter wish Clinton could run again, while seven-in-ten disagree.
-------------
I wish Bill Clinton could run for a third term
Sep'00: Agree (27%), Disagree (71%) Aug'99: Agree (28%), Disagree (71%) Mar'99: Agree (28%), Disagree (71%)
The question to ask is "If Bill Clinton could run for a third term against George Bush would you vote for him?"
Or alternately at the end of the 2nd term "Do you regret voting for Bill Clinton?"
Do you really think Al Gore was more popular than Bill Clinton then?
Do you really think Al Gore is more popular than Bill Clinton now?
Love them or Hate them deep down Conservatives, Moderates and Liberals know the Clintons know how to play ball and they know that had the Clintons run the country the last 8 years we would have had an outcome as much better than 2000 as our current outcome is worse than 2000.
You need to show at least one poll showing this to be the case.
Clinton had high job approvals in 99/2K, but he had miserable favs. He polled 60-67% unfavorable "as a person" through out 1999 and 2000. link
~~~~~~~~
Go ahead and show me a poll with a qn like this.
Gore did have higher favorables (50-60%) in 2000. Clinton had 45-55% favorables and 35% favorables as a person during 1999 and 2000 (as mentioned above).
Gore's favorables should be about 50-55% now. Latest WJC's favs are around 50-55%.
The reason Gore's favs aren't higher is because Gore was banged up by the pro-war pro-Bush media when Gore rose up to oppose the abuses by the Bush admin (see this eg), while at the same time, HRC was busy supporting Bush on the war (WJC was winking and nodding to the war) and other things (and were screwing the party and progressiveness in the process). Gore also takes some serious heat from global warming denialists (which keeps most Republicans disposed firmly unfavorable towards Gore. He does better with independents now), but Gore gives cover for candidates by taking those hits on AGW.
However, Clinton's favorables will drop once again sharply should some new scandal surface.
