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Evacuation? (3.00 / 0)

You say chartering buses is soemthing they should have done.  It is taking how long to evacuate people that have already accumulated at weigh stations?  It would have taken longer to evacuate them in advance of the hurricane.  Not only that it would be difficult to come up with that number of buses.  Even if you used school buses that means you have to declare the bus drivers as working for the evacuation effort instea d of fleeing themselves.  Certainly by the time such a decision would be prudent it would be difficult if not impossible to get those buses organized.  Note that the roads are clear right now (well cler to Houston at least).  Buses in an advance evacuation would not be reusable.  They would all have been sitting in traffic.  Thats 1333 buses if you have 100000 people at 75 a bus.  I suspect Mayor Nagin did everything in his authority that he could do in the time allowed.  And of course by the time they were certain it would have been too late for such a meausre.  Yes, do what you can but beyond that count on relief efforts after the fact.  The local and state government had every reason to expect a quick response.  Who before hand would have anticipated this failure to react?

Its in this where the failure occurred.  There was no relief effort to speak of.  Within a day or two they chose to evacuate the existing shelters and buses were brought in through an apparently clear road to Houston.  Amazingly enough FEMA was hacking its way through the wilderness instead of using this clear road.

The state government could really only call on the National Guard and clearly they were not available in any strength to speak of or they chose to follow someone else's orders.  

No, in this case the best that local and state leaders could do was call foul and do so as publicly as possible.  They can't call foul until they are certain there is a failure to respond.  It would be rude to the extreme to do so too early.  So time passed and frustrations rose until finally it was obvious no one was coming.  In this case I believe Mayor Nagin to be a great man.  He had the balls to call it like it is in a world all too carried away with political games.  Political games that may very well be responsible for the catastrophe.

"So this is how liberty dies...to thunderous applause." Padme, Star Wars Episode III
by jrflorida on Sat Sep 03, 2005 at 08:05:13 PM EST

300+ school buses were right there (none / 0)

This comment will probably get deleted like an earlier comment I left, but in the meantime take a look at AP Warned of New Orleans Disaster:

--] "In the case of Katrina, there was huge fleet of school buses the mayor could have dispatched to aid in evacuating people unable to leave on their own. Instead, the buses sat in parking lots that later flooded, making them unusable when tens of thousands were stranded in the flooded city." [--

Obviously, if anyone is concerned with niceties like licensing or requisition notices, then that would tend to point towards part of the failure involved here.

You can see a picture of the buses here.

Also, feel free to google for this AJC article:

--] In scripted appearances being recorded now, officials such as Mayor Ray Nagin, local Red Cross Executive Director Kay Wilkins and City Council President Oliver Thomas drive home the word that the city does not have the resources to move out of harm's way an estimated 134,000 people without transportation." [--

by TheLonewackoBlog on Sat Sep 03, 2005 at 08:59:46 PM EST
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Re: 300+ school buses were right there (none / 0)

500 school busses X 100 passengers = 50,000 people. NO has over 500,000 to get out. How do all these people get to these busses? How do any of them even know where the damn busses are? (less than 10,000 made it to the Superdome.) (And the bastards made them abandon their pets !!!)
by blues on Sat Sep 03, 2005 at 10:26:05 PM EST
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Re: 300+ school buses were right there (none / 0)

And they have a day to do it in
"So this is how liberty dies...to thunderous applause." Padme, Star Wars Episode III
by jrflorida on Sun Sep 04, 2005 at 12:44:10 AM EST
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Re: 300+ school buses were right there (3.00 / 1)

Let's assume the Mayor had the authority to comandeer the buses. Let's also assume he had done FEMA's job of establishing centralized locations where citizens of New Orleans could board the buses.

300 buses would have held, let's be generous and say 50 people per bus for a total of 1,500 people. Where would he tell the bus drivers to take them?

Where would he get another 3,000 busses and drivers? Where would he tell the bus drivers to go?

There is a good reason they call them national disasters wacko.

Compare the response of Bush's FEMA to the response of Clinton's FEMA after 9/11 and after Hurricane Dennis.

Now that Bush has neutered FEMA, we see the results of Bush's theory of governance as well as his incompetence.

by Gary Boatwright on Sat Sep 03, 2005 at 11:56:12 PM EST
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Re: 300+ school buses were right there (none / 0)

Jabbar Gibson got 50 to 70 people aboard his bus, and others have said there are over 200 buses in the photo of the flooded buses. Let's say 60 people per bus X 200 buses = 12,000 people.

I might be wrong about this, but I believe the Red Cross had already opened shelters about 60 miles north of N.O.

Anyone who'd wonder whether they had the right to comandeer a bus in a situation like this has absolutely no right to any position of authority.

by TheLonewackoBlog on Sun Sep 04, 2005 at 01:27:37 AM EST
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Re: 300+ school buses were right there (none / 0)

They were better off in the shelter because it survived the storm and the federal government will send food and water to support them once the storm has passed.  They could do this because they can have the trucks, the national guard, FEMA, and the Red Corss enter the city the same way the evacuation buses did two days prior to the real arrival of help on Friday.  Who would drive the  buses?  The bus drivers went out of town with their family.  The bus issue is a non issue.  Had those buses not been shown you would find a series of SUVs parked in a dealership lot and say the same thing.  The best thing the local government did was to tell people to get to that shelter.  The worst thing they did was count on George F W Bush and his hatchlings, I mean henchmen, I mean...
"So this is how liberty dies...to thunderous applause." Padme, Star Wars Episode III
by jrflorida on Sun Sep 04, 2005 at 01:46:47 AM EST
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Re: 300+ school buses were right there (none / 0)

And there would still be how many thousands of people still in the city, still in the Superdome?  How many tens of thousands would still be there, would still have been dieing, would still have been suffering the worst humiliation in the history of this country.  You know you are wrong.  Go look in the mirror, take your time.
"So this is how liberty dies...to thunderous applause." Padme, Star Wars Episode III
by jrflorida on Sun Sep 04, 2005 at 01:48:57 AM EST
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Re: 300+ school buses were right there (none / 0)

Anyone who'd wonder whether they had the right to comandeer a bus in a situation like this has absolutely no right to any position of authority.

Oh yeah. Jabbar Gibson. That's the kid they were talking about pressing felony grand theft charges against.

So let's see. The Mayor could have ordered the bus company to do what? Call up the bus drivers and tell them to forget about their families and their evacuation plans, because they had to report to work?

If I recall nearly 50% of the New Orleans police force refused to show up for work. They were probably evacuating their families or something stupid like that. The owner of the bus company probably would have said "Sure thing Mayor. You can have my buses. Here's the keys and I'll call up the bus drivers personally, because I can't get any of my clerical workers to come into work to call the bus drivers to come into work."

Yeah, that's a brilliant plan. Why didn't the Mayor think of that? Maybe he's not batshit crazy as TheLonewacko.

When did the Red Cross set up shelters? Before Hurrican Katrina hit? How many people did their shelters hold? Would they have been able to feed and shelter 12,000 people? Those are some pretty big shelters to set up on speculation.

I don't suppose you have a link to the conclusion that you "could be wrong about." How about maybe you're just making shit up?

What else would you expect from a troll bullshit artist who is bat shit crazy?

by Gary Boatwright on Sun Sep 04, 2005 at 02:12:52 AM EST
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Re: 300+ school buses were right there (none / 0)

Don't forget how long it takes to fill those buses.  How long has it taken to evacuate the peopl ein the Superdome?  Now imagine adding in the time it takes for the people to not line up after having been seeted at the Superdome but instead having to walk from their homes, if they chose to do it.  These people thought they could ride it out in their third floor apartment.  And they were probable right about the storm.  Its the aftermath that became the problem.  For those people to get out, for all of them to load up on buses with their wheelchairs and oxygen tanks, with their sick children, with their feeble grandmothers, that storm was still a Category 2 and potentially destined for the Texas - Mexico border.  Not that the tracking didn't pan out but you can't spend that kind of money and risk lives doing it with the storm that far out.  This bus theory is 20-20 hindsight and with a really nice pair of rose colored glasses on.  Consider your argument completely thrashed.
"So this is how liberty dies...to thunderous applause." Padme, Star Wars Episode III
by jrflorida on Sun Sep 04, 2005 at 02:31:13 AM EST
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Does your standard apply to Bush? (none / 0)

Anyone who'd wonder whether they had the right to comandeer a bus in a situation like this has absolutely no right to any position of authority.

Exactly what do you think Bush's responsibility is in this whole picture? What responsibility does the President of the United States have in a situation like this?

I mean aside from eating cake and playing the banjo while New Orleans drowns.

capt.azsw10208291734.bush_azsw102

by Gary Boatwright on Sun Sep 04, 2005 at 02:55:02 AM EST
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Cat got your tongue Lonewacko? (none / 0)

This comment will probably get deleted like an earlier comment I left

Why are you crying about having your previous racist comment deleted if you don't respond when you do have the opportunity?

Oh, sorry. I forgot you were just another ignorant drive by troll.

by Gary Boatwright on Sun Sep 04, 2005 at 03:02:03 AM EST
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