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ARGH! (3.00 / 1)

Abortion is not health care.
by Chris1458 on Mon Jul 18, 2005 at 10:02:47 AM EST

Re: ARGH! (none / 0)

I'll split hairs on this and say yes, it could be considered reproductive health care.
by KimPossible on Mon Jul 18, 2005 at 10:39:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ARGH! (none / 0)

it's not really though. And we are going to lose the debate if we don't frame it right and admit it is a medical procedure as well as a moral values question.
by Chris1458 on Mon Jul 18, 2005 at 10:55:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ARGH! (none / 0)

I disagree... Abortion is a noise topic... those for outlawing it are a big minority.  Over 60% of Americans support a right to choose.  I think framing it as a privacy issue is the right call. Overall, it is not the issue the majority of us vote on.  That would be economy, security/defense, and educational issues, and maybe healthcare costs which is economic anyway.  Form your position (for or against and to what degree), form your rationale (Women should choose, Privacy, Moral issue, whatever) and then don't dwell unless the audience you are address demands it.  

As a moral issue, I say look at the old testament and see exactly what the penalty is for causing a miscarriage.  It isn't death... it was monetary.  If you killed the mother though, that was death.  The value was placed on the person who was born, not the unborn child.  So if we are using the bible as a moral barometer, lets have some perspective.  

I believe it is in Leveticus, which they cite as condemning homosexuality... these hypocrites need to take it all literally or not at all... they should not pick and choose to fit their agenda.  

http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Mon Jul 18, 2005 at 12:26:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Abortion is not health care. (none / 0)


While I am a Dean supporter and think that he is taking the party in the right direction, I agree on this.  

The real question is: Which party will actually reduce the number of abortions?  (This is raised and addressed very well by Jim Wallis in his book "God's Politics, Why the Right Gets is t Wrong and the Left Doesnt; Get It")

The abortion rate was down during the Clinton years, primarily because those more likely to have them were better off.  

Futher, if Bush and his Congressional allies really want to protect the unborn, they had better get on this NOW:

Unborn Babies Soaked in Chemicals, Survey Finds
http://www.truthout.org/issues_05/071405HA.shtml

Excerpt:

Thursday 14 July 2005

    Washington - Unborn U.S. babies are soaking in a stew of chemicals, including mercury, gasoline byproducts and pesticides, according to a report to be released Thursday.

    Although the effects on the babies are not clear, the survey prompted several members of Congress to press for legislation that would strengthen controls on chemicals in the environment.

    The report by the Environmental Working Group is based on tests of 10 samples of umbilical cord blood taken by the American Red Cross. They found an average of 287 contaminants in the blood, including mercury, fire retardants, pesticides and the Teflon chemical PFOA.

    "These 10 newborn babies ... were born polluted," said New York Rep. Louise Slaughter, who planned to publicize the findings at a news conference Thursday.

    "If ever we had proof that our nation's pollution laws aren't working, it's reading the list of industrial chemicals in the bodies of babies who have not yet lived outside the womb," Slaughter, a Democrat, said.

End of Exerpt

Republican emphasis on criminalizinbg a procedure without adressing the despation that makes peolple consider it is part of their pattern of talking the talk without walking the walk.  

You can't judge policy by laws passed, only by results achieved.  This is true of lowering the  abortion rate, improving school achievment (No Child Left Behind sure sounds good, but where's the money) protecting the envirnment (note the Orwellian Clear Skies Initiative, which protects us from industrial pollutants by _increasing) the amount of poison we breath), or defense (London).

Likewise, we can't just complain without offering our alternatives and allowing the same accountability that we demand.

by Mudshark on Mon Jul 18, 2005 at 10:57:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Abortion is not health care. (none / 0)

I disagree and do think it falls into healthcare.. that does not mean it can't fall into many different realms.

I still think Hillary has it best so far... Our goal should none per year.  We achieve this through more adoption, better contraception education and availability.  However, we need to have legal abortions as a public health issue.  No one wants to go back to back alley coat hangers.  

http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Mon Jul 18, 2005 at 12:31:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Abortion is not health care. (none / 0)

FYI: Here is a link from dkos that explains how to format with Scoop technology.  If you lose the info or want to refer someone later, when you post a comment at dkos there is a sentence right above the comment box that says:

You can also use auto-format tags, which are described here.

It doesn't describe the cool gray box, but it looks like this:

div class="blockquote">text</div<p>

without the html for a page break at the end (which scoop adds for some reason) and with the div on either end closed.

by Gary Boatwright on Mon Jul 18, 2005 at 06:54:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Uhhh... I'm not splitting hairs... (none / 0)

... abortion is health care.

You go to a clinic, it's done by a doctor, and its damned invasive.

What is it if not health care?  I mean... you get an abortion to mainatin your health is its normal state, rather than moving through the whole pregnacy-birth cycle.

You may not think its necessary, or justified... but if its not health care, tell me what it is.

McCain sucks!
by teknofyl on Mon Jul 18, 2005 at 12:16:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Uhhh... I'm not splitting hairs... (none / 0)

If breast implants and collagen injections (of which women are now getting injected into their G spots) are healthcare, so is this.
http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Mon Jul 18, 2005 at 12:31:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Uhhh... I'm not splitting hairs... (3.00 / 1)

and they are.

but trying say that abortion is a cosmetic operation is just despicable.  personally, i didn't think anyone was backwards enough to imply that abortion is a cosmetic surgery, but i guess i was wrong... wow... truly disingenuous... golf clap... nice job...

but it doesn't matter... because all of those are health care...

as are mental health treatments, efforts to stop smoking or lose weight, and just about anything that goes to adjusting the dimensions or operating parameters of your body...

so... you are one of those people who think that women just run around getting abortions willy-nilly because they don't like the pill?  maybe you think they prefer repeated invasive procedures to pill-popping??

just not sure where you're coming from...

McCain sucks!
by teknofyl on Mon Jul 18, 2005 at 01:12:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Uhhh... I'm not splitting hairs... (none / 0)

Wow, someone who throws around sarcasm should really learn to read to COMPREHEND what is written.  I never was trivializing abortion as that type of surgery.  I was saying that if those types of surgery are healthcare... then something as big as abortion is too.  Read to comprehend... not just to read.  Understand what some writes before incorrectly bashing them.  
http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Tue Jul 19, 2005 at 11:36:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]