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Let me ask this... (none / 0)

...why don't we Californians get the first voice? We have more people than any of you, goddamnit, and a more diverse population too: 45% white, 34% Latino, 11% Asian, 6% black, etc. etc. etc. We should get the most important vote, not those crazy libertarians in New Hampshire!

I don't get why small states should have such an advantage over big states. We have more people. That earns us more power.

Here's my plan:

First primary - California, Texas, New York, Florida. The four biggest states. Two liberal and Democratic, one conservative and Republican, one moderate and swingy. All very diverse (all four with big Latino populations and the last three with big black populations). All BIG.

Second - Illinois, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan. The Rust Belt. Slow-growing but clout-heavy. The backbone of any Democratic victory. Also the second most populated group of four.

Third - everybody else. From Georgia to Wyoming, everybody gets their say.

Doesn't that seem fair?

by raginillinoian on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 11:09:02 PM EST

Re: Let me ask this... (3.00 / 1)

First, it's too expensive; you've gotta have a lotta loot to compete.

Second, those are almost too diverse.  We want states that aren't all white, but we need to make sure we pick a nominee that appeals to whites as well; I'd rather have a state whose racial background matches that of the nation, rather than one that's too white (NH/IA) or not white enough (CA/TX); let's just pick one that matches the nation; anyone know which states qualify there?.

by LaX WI on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 11:17:45 PM EST
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Re: Let me ask this... (none / 0)

A good example of that might be Michigan, or Illinois, or New Jersey, or North Carolina. But these are all flawed. All have higher black percentages than the nation at large, and lower Latino percentages. So, of the big states Florida might actually be the best match.
by raginillinoian on Sun Oct 02, 2005 at 02:49:51 AM EST
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Re: Let me ask this... (3.00 / 1)

FL might be good, if it wasn't so damn big and costly.  Also we then run into problems with old people vs young people demographics.  I don't think we should ignore all other demographics for the sake of looking at race; let's look at the whole picture: age, education, union percentage, rural-urban ratio, political swingyness, and yes, race, in our calculation.  Making it solely based on race ignores all the other complexities in determining how people will vote.
by LaX WI on Sun Oct 02, 2005 at 07:35:46 PM EST
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Why do we have to have a candidate... (none / 0)

that appeals to whites?
no we don't.
It's been shown that white males break overwhelmingly for Republicans, and that isn't going to change until we start addressing class issues, which transcend race.

There will never be a state that is "perfect", and quite frankly, considering how big of a role California plays in the US, we should at least get something of an earlier say.

also please don't ever use the term "not white enough", again, that kind of bothers me.

-C.

by neutron on Sun Oct 02, 2005 at 12:23:28 PM EST
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Re: Why do we have to have a candidate... (none / 0)

I don't think even I am white enough.
by turnerbroadcasting on Sun Oct 02, 2005 at 05:08:58 PM EST
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Re: Why do we have to have a candidate... (3.00 / 1)

It wasn't me intent to offend with "not white enough;" merely to use a written shorthand for "has a lower than average percentage of whites" just as I used "too white" to indicate "has a higher than average percentage of whites."  I don't think it should bother you that we should find a balance, rather than our current group of states that underrepresent minorities or another group that would underrepresent whites.

Also, we do have to appeal to whites.  Even if every non-white American voted for the Dem, they would lose if that's all that voted for them.  Maybe not further down the road, but right now, that's the case.  What's more, turnout in the General among whites is higher than many minority groups, so I don't think that we should say we can win without anyone just yet.

What's more, we already win in CA.  There's no question that the Dem nominee will carry that state.  So why not give states that will determine the outcome of the election a choice of who they would back.  MI, PA, FL, OH- all are important swing states, just like WI.  And even NH and IA are pretty swingy, as they were two of the three states that changed hands this election.  I don't think we should hold our most important primary in the most liberal states, just as I don't think the GOP should hold their's in the most conservative; it would lead to nominees that the swing states with middle America would be displeased with.

by LaX WI on Sun Oct 02, 2005 at 07:32:35 PM EST
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Re: Let me ask this... (none / 0)

Don't like it.  The best thing about retail politics in small state primaries is that it allow less-funded candidates that have good personal qualities, or strong messages, to challenge the big boys.  

McCain's victory over the Bush machine in 2000--which might have worked out if he had not gotten off message in South Carolina--would never have happened if we had the primary process you recommend.  Johnson would have never been knocked off by McCarthy.  Buchanan would never have bitch-slapped Bush Sr..  (I don't like Buchanan either, but it was a hell of a lot of fun!)

Under your system the well-funded party apparatus designates with lots of money and name recognition will win the nomination on Day One.  Hell, why don't we just go back to letting the party leaders pick the candidates themselves, like we used to, and save all that campaign cash for the general election?

by paul minot on Sat Oct 01, 2005 at 11:23:42 PM EST
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Re: Let me ask this... (1.00 / 1)

Johnson would never have been knocked off by Mccarthy.  And somehow getting Nixon elected instead of another four years of Johnson is supposed to be a good thing?  I would say that was another example of how the Democratic Party got screwed by New Hampshire.  
by Demo Dan in Dayton on Sun Oct 02, 2005 at 12:06:27 AM EST
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Re: Let me ask this... (none / 0)

Johnson was knocked off by McCarthy. That would be why he announced that he wouldn't run again on the same night that McCarthy kicked his ass in Wisconsin by a two-to-one margin.

And it was McCarthy's fault that Nixon was elected. It was Johnson's fault for starting the war in Vietnam and Humphrey's fault for supporting it.

by craverguy on Sun Oct 02, 2005 at 04:38:21 AM EST
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Re: Let me ask this... (2.33 / 3)

Well the quote was replying to the post above.  And just for the record that was Eisenhower that started the crap in Vietnam NOT Johnson.  And as for Humphrey, well he did what all Vice Presidents do.  Had Johnson put Bobby on the ticket in '64 he would have done the exact same thing.  His political instincts were too good to do anything else.  Sorry about the off thread digression.
by Demo Dan in Dayton on Sun Oct 02, 2005 at 09:43:51 PM EST
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Re: Let me ask this... (none / 0)

you imbecile. McCain was slimed in the SC primary just like Kerry was scum boated . Propaganda, even if you want to accept it in some form, kills good men.

by turnerbroadcasting on Sun Oct 02, 2005 at 09:59:30 AM EST
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