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Dear empty pockets (3.00 / 1)

I apologize for not giving you the benefit of the doubt. I think some people are over reacting. However, I'm sure you realize that reading that one line without any explanation is kind offensive. But I reccomend everyone calm down here. THe guy is new and he didn't have any "criminal intent" with his comment.

by sam89 on Sat Jan 29, 2005 at 07:09:17 PM EST

Re: Dear empty pockets (none / 0)

Agreed. Seems like there should be a flame war rating somewhere on this site.

by Woodhouse on Sat Jan 29, 2005 at 07:12:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Dear sam, (3.00 / 0)

Thank you for writing & talking to me about this. I am actually really surprised at the reaction. Why is the phrase "New York Jew" so loaded? (again, let me emphasize I am one and don't find it offensive.) In all honesty, I don't understand. I have seen many posts saying Dean would not be a good chair because he's a Vermont liberal, same idea.

Did readers honestly think I was saying something bad about Jews, rather than about the country's perception of the "New York Jew" stereotype?

I think I know how Dean felt after that confederate flag pick up truck remark...!

thank you,
empty.

by emptypockets on Sat Jan 29, 2005 at 07:14:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Dear sam, (none / 0)

Your edit is an improvement, but I don't know why you think the link to dkos resolves anything. I just gave ultrageek another troll rating. "Please, not another jew." is not an acceptable or comment. If you wish to discuss the relevance of anybody's ethnic heritage I would suggest a more tactful approach.

In your circles casual, condescending remarks about "New York Jews" may be acceptable. I consider the term just as offensive as "fried chicken eating blacks". Neither term conveys any useful information and perpetuates unfortunate stereotypes. Unless Chris or Jerome corrects me I will continue to troll rate and decry this type of insensitive comment loudly and proudly.

by Gary Boatwright on Sat Jan 29, 2005 at 09:20:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Dear jolly, (none / 0)

Glad to talk to you about this. Wish you would remove the 'troll' comments you made to denigrate my diary, hope you can tell by now I am not a troll.

Here are some references for you...

Al Franken, on running for senator:
"I'd be the only New York Jew in the race who was raised in Minnesota."

Summary of Annie Hall, from a Jewish Community Center web site:
"A neurotic New York Jew is set up with a midwestern woman."

Interview with David Nasaw from the graduate center at CUNY:
"As a historian of popular culture and a native of the city--a New York Jew is really what I am--I can't imagine living anywhere else."

Title of autobiography by Alfred Kazin:
"New York Jew"

I am trying to provide evidence to my argument that it is not an ethnic slur by any means. Whether it is worth considering re: public spokesman for DNC, I agree is a very debatable question.

by emptypockets on Sat Jan 29, 2005 at 10:05:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Dear jolly, (none / 0)

Nothing personal emptypockets. I changed your comment about having half a brain to a 2. I'll think about the rest, but don't expect a complete retraction. Examine the context of your examples. Most are referring to themselves, not other people. Feel free to refer to yourself any way you wish. The one exception is an artistic description. Context is everything.

FWIW, I'll probably react much the same way in the future. For now I'm moving on.

by Gary Boatwright on Sat Jan 29, 2005 at 10:19:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Interestingly enough (none / 0)

A related topic just came up at another diary. Bizarro Anti-semitism is why we can't afford to take these kinds of statements lightly. Conservatives are using anti-semitism as a weapon. I haven't figured out who their target audience is exactly.

Hannity and Limbaugh are using the same tactic to criticize Dems who are critical of Rice or Gonzalez. "Democrats hate conservative minorities."

I'm going to continue being sensitive to abuse of ethnic labels to maintain my moral authority to criticize conservative abuse of ethnic labels.

by Gary Boatwright on Sat Jan 29, 2005 at 10:40:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

As far as your comment below (none / 0)

/Don't know what parts of the country you're used to, but neither Jews nor New Yorkers are well-loved in big chunks of it. /

I am not the least concerned about what "big chunks of it" think about anything. As far as I'm concerned casual references to "New York Jews" are not acceptable discourse.

by Gary Boatwright on Sat Jan 29, 2005 at 09:26:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]