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Re: Our candidate's provenance.... (none / 0)

Col. Sanders himself also couldn't win LA, TN, NC or WV anymore. FL, VA, AR and MO are the only places where we are even stil competetive in anymore.
by Chris Bowers on Sat Nov 06, 2004 at 10:12:15 PM EST
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Re: Our candidate's provenance.... (none / 0)

A democratic presidential candidate can win WV and it would be unwise to abandon the state to the GOP, if only b/c it would be a shame to lose two solid democratic senate seats.  
Montani semper liberi.
by liz on Sat Nov 06, 2004 at 11:29:24 PM EST
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Re: Our candidate's provenance.... (none / 0)

NC is full of conservative Democrats. VA is starting to swing back to the Democrats and FL is always in play.

TN, AR, and LA were traditional Democratic stongholds (Clinton carried them twice), but have been trending Republican at a rapid pace.

The Democrats cannot afford to neglect the South. The last four winning Democratic candidates (five if you count Al Gore's win in the popular vote) were Southerners. The last Democratic candidate to win the an actual majority in popular vote was a born-again Christian from Georgia who won every Southern state except VA.

As a Southerner, I do NOT want the South to become any more of a one party region than it already is.

Go ahead, keep calling us backwards, racist, homophobic, rednecks. Keep that superior urban attitude. Keep losing elections. As long as the national Democratic Party keeps saying "fuck you" to Southerners, the South will keep saying "fuck you" to the Democratic Party on election day.

Meanwhile, Massachusetts liberal William Weld is still considered a good Republican. Ahnold, Rudy, and Pataki all spoke at the RNC. If they can have a big tent, why can't we?

by wayward on Sun Nov 07, 2004 at 12:03:03 AM EST
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Quit lying about people's statements. (none / 0)

Noone said any of the things you accuse them of saying.  Chris is merely acknowledging that the realignment of the party's is nearly complete.  And your region, sorry to say, is firmly aligned with the Republican Party.  

Weld and his ilk will soon be as rare a species as the Southern Democrat.  It will simply take time.

by Teaser on Sun Nov 07, 2004 at 12:39:00 AM EST
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Re: Our candidate's provenance.... (none / 0)

Amen.  Please realize that some of us southerners in fact NEED a national Democratic party.  In GA, we just lost the House, as noted.  The Gov. didn't go GOP until 2002, same with the Senate.  GA, in local elections, was Dem until very recently.  I do agree that its the last of the dixie-crat stuff, but Majette, a black woman, still won 41% of the vote on a poorly run, cash-strapped campaign against a fairly moderate Republican who won the primary despite being called not conservative enough.  Add no presidential race help for 'message', and I'm surprised she got 41%!

My point is, the GA house is controlled by the GOP by around 5 seats, I think.  We need a national message for the Democratic Party so that we don't slip further.  I think its a lot more instructive to look at the county maps to gain a better picture.  Better yet, BOP has an awesome map that shows how blue states are still divided.  Regardless of the state, you still see a high concentration of Kerry supporters, like Atlanta, Charlotte, even certain swaths of blue in the deep south (SE GA, central SC, and S Ala).  I think the problem is that on a national level the Democratic party has lost the ability to connect with "regular" guys.  People who ARE cornbread and apple pie.  It doesn't have to do with position so much as how we present the position, our message, and being afraid to be honest about who we are, what we believe - we lack the balls to really bring a passion to the debate.  People respect passion, and respond.  As Bush said, people liked his dad, but nobody loved him.  As Democrats, we have the right positions on 'issues' - some people just don't trust us.

While on a national level, it might be easy to write off the South, but that leaves us Southerners a bit lost.  We need a national message that people connect to in order to give our local campaigns some coherency and exposure.  Without it, we won't ever get our states back.

by DreadPirateKing on Sun Nov 07, 2004 at 12:49:26 AM EST
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Re: Our candidate's provenance.... (none / 0)

Excuse me, but you don't need a National Message from the Democrats to win local seats in Georgia.

The South again becomes an asset to the National Democratic Effort when Democratic Southerners get busy and win some elections.  You need to raise the money, set up field operations, and rebuild the Southern Democratic Parties, and if you read McCain Feingold clearly, you'll understand that it does shift the responsibility for party building to the states.  

I fully appreciate the problems Southern Democrats have -- the dependable base of the Southern Parties are now Black -- in the minority/majority districts.  You have to figure out how to create a coalition that includes Black Voters, and then finds enough people willing to vote their own economic and social interests instead of their fears in order to win.  But that's what you have to do.  We've got enough problems here in Minnesota what with the Republicans importing both Texas Candidates and Southern Tactics -- and we've finally figured out some of the tactical approaches that work.  We have a strong state party that can organize and rebound.  

Some years back I worked on a Presidential Campaign at the Field Organizer level, and what I found was that most Southern Democratic Parties were essentially letterheads.  They had no broad program -- no party building strategy. County Chairs had no idea what was required of them in organizing primary campaigns. And it is not "anti-Southern bigotry" to note the problem -- it is necessary frankness.  

If you can't win your sheriff races, your town council races, your legislative races and all -- then why should we assume you've got your game together vis a vis national politics?  

by Sara on Sun Nov 07, 2004 at 10:08:39 AM EST
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Sara, where are you based (none / 0)

MN?   Are you currently working with the party?

and are you the same Sara who frequently  posted on donkey rising?   I've always found you to be one of the very best posters in the entire blogosphere.

by Andmoreagain on Sun Nov 07, 2004 at 01:52:22 PM EST
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Re: Sara, where are you based (none / 0)

Yea, I live in MN. Have done since the 60's but I am a birthright Ohioan.  

I have retired from Party work.  Over the years I accumulated a long list of party jobs -- 10 years on the State Central Committee, I've managed about 20 campaigns, I co-chaired Alan Cranston's 1984 effort. Raised Money, and (though all my friends thought I had gone off my rocker) in 1989-90 I worked on Paul Wellstone's first Senate Campaign, beginning when it was a rented broom closet, with one phone line hooked to an answering machine.  I've organized and chaired committees and commissions at the state level -- and for a couple of years I taught advocacy and lobbying at the University, and some of my former students are still in the legislature.  

Yea -- I post at Donkey Rising, at Kos, and at Digby and sometimes at Orcinus.  I really want to see the blog-world become a meaningful factor in politics, and I see lots of possibilities that need to be tried and tested.  I think the best thing those of us who have been around Party Politics for years, and wear our "Hack" badge with honor can do, is try to tell the new recruits what we know from our own successful efforts and lost good causes.  

by Sara on Mon Nov 08, 2004 at 11:45:59 PM EST
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Re: Our candidate's provenance.... (3.00 / 1)

"Go ahead, keep calling us backwards, racist, homophobic, rednecks. Keep that superior urban attitude. Keep losing elections. As long as the national Democratic Party keeps saying "fuck you" to Southerners, the South will keep saying "fuck you" to the Democratic Party on election day."

Excuse me? Did I do this?

Allow me to become a little self-righteous msyelf here. I disntinctly said that we should not give up on the South. All I am doing is pointing out how severe the situation is for the Demcorats int he south, and that it will take a lot more than a southern governor and some talk about values to turn it around.

Last year I wrote a pretty ardent diary at Dailykos calling people out for their anti-southern bigotry during the Dean flag flap. Now that I am simply pointing out how dire the electoral situation is for Democrats in the south, I do not think that means I am calling people in the south backwards.

I do not take kindly to accusations that I am bigoted, and that I am being predujiced against others.

Asshole.

by Chris Bowers on Sun Nov 07, 2004 at 01:28:26 AM EST
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Re: Our candidate's provenance.... (none / 0)

I don't know if the poster intended to call you out, Chris. If he did, then your ire is well-placed.

But we can't just ignore his/her badly-communicated point - there are someDems who think this way about the South, and rural voters in general. Hell, even I've done it in my darkest moments, and I was born and raised in a rural county. Even worse, there's a widely-held perception that ALL Dems think this way.

This sort of contempt for "hicks," real or not, is hurting us, and our new message and communication need to focus on it. These people aren't going to vote for us if they think we hate them.

by PantherDem on Sun Nov 07, 2004 at 01:42:29 AM EST
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Re: Our candidate's provenance.... (none / 0)

I want to really quickly point out something really important here.

The Republicans want us weak and divided, gnawing over silly things like "do we defend gays or cast them aside", "do we nominate southerners so we have a better chance at winning", "do we move more to the left or the center".

They aren't as divided as we are. The moderates are shunted aside. The far right holds all the keys and they appeal to peoples fears and hatreds.

We can not be persuaded to play to their level. I believe Chris was saying, simply, that nominating from the south won't solve our problems. Some folks here have noted that there is a high-handed approach from the north (I'm from Michigan, for example), that generally speaking our region has a condescending view of that region.

We are a party of all regions. We need to change the focus, as has been said, on getting the message out; We are proud to be Liberal. Liberal is not a dirty word in the north, south, east or west. The kind of bigotry embraced by the far right is dirty.

Okay, I've said my peace. I personally respect my fellow Liberals in the south and agree with something Chris said earlier; in those Red held districts we "can't" win, we need to spread a little money to generate a candidate, build inroads, and siphon off their resources. And maybe, just maybe, take a few seats from the Radicals!

by Green Irishboy on Sun Nov 07, 2004 at 01:52:24 AM EST
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