Howard Dean: "Kill the bill"

Promoted. I can't imagine a worse development than mandating private insurance alone and calling that reform; what a political and PR nightmare. Jerome

What a fiasco!! Even now some "experts" say that this shit sandwich is worth voting for, I have to ask where is the reform in this bill? We sure as hell are not reforming health care and we are not reforming the insurance industry. The government, by authorizing a mandate, just gave 30 million new customers to the private insurers, WITHOUT specifying any premium caps or cost control measures. Wonderful!! Yesterday many in the left blogs called for killing this atrocity, today the progressives got a major boost from Howard Dean (yes the same Dr. Howard Dean who would have been one heckuva HHS secretary, instead of Ms. Bipartisan Sebelius).

Howard Dean "Kill the Senate bill"

In a blow to the bill grinding through the Senate,  Howard Dean bluntly called for the bill to be killed in a pre-recorded interview set to air later this afternoon, denouncing it as "the collapse of health care reform in the United States Senate," the reporter who conducted the interview tells me.


"This is essentially the collapse of health care reform in the United States Senate. Honestly the best thing to do right now is kill the Senate bill, go back to the House, start the reconciliation process, where you only need 51 votes and it would be a much simpler bill."

Let me add here that unlike Dr. Dean, I did not think much of the medicare buy-in plan, because it would have burdened the State with an aging and less healthy population, but as far as reform went, it was still a tiny incremental step in the right direction. The bill right now is not a reform bill.

Tags: Health care, Howard Dean (all tags)



Re: Howard Dean: "Kill the bill"

This seems like a pretty important development to me.

by Steve M 2009-12-15 10:44AM | 0 recs
Re: says it all

But Dean has disagreed with you every step of the way.  You maintained that the bill sucked all along, he has consistently said that it was worth doing.

Now that the bill has finally been watered down to the point where even Dr. Dean has reached his breaking point, it seems like you want to have an "I told you so" moment.  That's not really how it works.  The reason Dr. Dean's announcement has credibility is that he has given the bill a fair shot all through the process.

by Steve M 2009-12-15 11:36AM | 0 recs
Re: uh no, until recently, there was no bill

Which got you up to 57, but not 60.

What would you be willing to "trade away" to get to 60? Or is it just an exercise in grandstanding.

by vecky 2009-12-15 01:18PM | 0 recs
Re: you dont give in on the fundamental

As we found out about the PO, it only takes 1 senator to fillibuster the pharma deal and it goes down.

by vecky 2009-12-15 05:22PM | 0 recs
I agree with Vecky...

What would you have given away to get from 57 to 60?

by Khun David 2009-12-15 01:49PM | 0 recs
God Bless Howard Dean.

I stood up and "Whoop!"ed when I heard that on the TV just now.  Did he say it before or just after Obama's press conference?  I'd like to know that.

Shit sandwich is about right.  

by Dumbo 2009-12-15 10:59AM | 0 recs
Re: Howard Dean: "Kill the bill"

I'm not inclined to kill the bill, but if Dean says so, that gives me tremendous pause.

Any chance a section of the bill, such as the Medicare buy-in, could be done by reconciliation?  If so, it could almost certainly happen before the mandates kicked in.

by the mollusk 2009-12-15 11:24AM | 0 recs
Re: Howard Dean: "Kill the bill"

I'm going to go home and sulk for a while too.

by vecky 2009-12-15 11:27AM | 0 recs
Re: Howard Dean: "Kill the bill"

why? this is a good development.

It's possible we could get something better by following Dean's advice

by jeopardy 2009-12-15 11:39AM | 0 recs
or more likely

we won't get anything at all

by ND22 2009-12-15 11:43AM | 0 recs
Re: or more likely

at this point,

getting nothing IS better

by jeopardy 2009-12-15 12:12PM | 0 recs
Re: or more likely

And your OK with that? Why, because the current HC system is surely the "greatest in the world".

by vecky 2009-12-15 01:19PM | 0 recs
Re: or more likely

you know what, i've been patient so far, but that is completely disrespectful

by jeopardy 2009-12-15 02:20PM | 0 recs
Re: or more likely

You know what's ironic about your statement, you know that our current system is flawed yet you are ok with 30 million new customers being mandated to join the same crappy system without any regulations or premium caps. So I ask again, do you stop and think before you say something outrageous?

by tarheel74 2009-12-15 02:56PM | 0 recs

if you're ready to drop this forever, then by all means push to have this killed because I can guarantee you, I can bet every cent I have with a clear head, if nothing passes now, healthcare reform is dead, forever.

by ND22 2009-12-15 01:19PM | 0 recs
Re: Well

Forever?  Okay, Kent.

by Steve M 2009-12-15 02:15PM | 0 recs
Re: Well

of course not.

i'm getting accused of bad morals and unreasonableness because I don't want the lower and middle class to get screwed over in favor of lining insurance executives' pockets even more.

by jeopardy 2009-12-15 02:21PM | 0 recs
Re: Well

sorry, responded to the wrong post.

by jeopardy 2009-12-15 02:25PM | 0 recs
yes, forever

by ND22 2009-12-15 04:27PM | 0 recs
Re: passing a crap - nothing bill

Reminds me of Gore v Bush,

Thank God we stuck to our principals there!

by vecky 2009-12-15 05:23PM | 0 recs
Re: Howard Dean: "Kill the bill"


Anyway, we won't get anything until April at the earliest. So i'm going home to sulk, and i'll be back then.

Or maybe I'll only emerge when Speaker Boehnoer or President Huckabee are in charge.

by vecky 2009-12-15 11:53AM | 0 recs
Re: Howard Dean: "Kill the bill"

I think it is a little ridiculous to act like Dr. Dean, who has been supportive of the Senate bill all along in spite of its imperfections, is suddenly the equivalent of a whiny blog commenter because we have finally reached a point where he no longer thinks the bill is worthwhile.  It may be fun to act like we all understand the politics of the situation much more deeply than does Dr. Dean, but I kinda doubt it's that simple.

by Steve M 2009-12-15 12:09PM | 0 recs

A Clinton supporter now DEFENDING Howard Dean. What happened to "Dean rigged the primaries cause he hated the Clintons"

by ND22 2009-12-15 04:26PM | 0 recs
Re: Howard Dean: "Kill the bill"

Eh, Dean is demonstrating his usual political acumen. The choice is half a loaf or none, not half a loaf or reconciliation. The insurance companies would nuke the kinds of reform we want to push through reconciliation in the time it would take to go through the legislative process. And besides, the Democrats in congress are under immense pressure to move on to jobs.

It seems to me the failure here was assuming Obama would fight for the public option, and therefor not applying enough pressure in the Senate. Obama co-opted the groups when they tried to apply pressure, when it might have made a difference.

I don't understand the opposition to mandates (except as a healthy person's example of taxes for thee but not for me). An individual mandate is a prerequisite to move away from our employer based system and achieve universality. Universality is the goal here, from that we could get to single payer. Opposition to mandates is not consistent with progressive health care reform.

by souvarine 2009-12-15 12:21PM | 0 recs
Re: Howard Dean: "Kill the bill"

half-a-loaf is fine, if it's not just the moldy, rotten half.

any bill that forces people to buy insurance from anti-trust exempt monopolies without doing anything to ensure that those monopolies don't just turn around and charge more is an affront to progressive values.

by jeopardy 2009-12-15 12:35PM | 0 recs


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