Declaring Victory Open Thread
by Todd Beeton, Mon Jan 05, 2009 at 02:36:34 PM EST
How sweet it is...
What else is on your minds?
by Todd Beeton, Mon Jan 05, 2009 at 02:36:34 PM EST
How sweet it is...
What else is on your minds?
Sweet doesn't even begin to describe this victory. Franken is a good man. Minnesota nice. I remember one of his many appearances on Letterman and what struck me was they spent their time talking about mid-western values. Values. It's something missing from our political discourse.
I am also thrilled because this likely has the conservatives', especially the Freepers', panties all tied up in knots.
Love the man. Love his family. Love his politics. Love his fight.
I didn't much care for his earlier speeches. This one is excellent and it proves that he's learning his craft. His kind remarks toward Norm Coleman were not only warm but also politically astute. Though it was a razor-thin victory, Minnesotans may end up feeling very lucky.
I ponied up big time for Al, equal to my Obama donations. I take my share of the credit for his glorious victory.
And it is very sweet, indeed. I hope he tears those Republicans a new asshole every day in every way. C-SPAN better get ready for a ratings bonanza.
I really didn't think that this one was going to go our way. Senator Franken sounds damn good to me!
"I really didn't think that this one was going to go our way. Senator Franken sounds damn good to me!"
Wha? We always win the recounts. It's what we do.
I think Gore's first term as President could have gone a little better.
Oh how sweet it is... I'm fucking thrilled by this.
I've been reading his stuff since Rush Limbaugh is a Big Fat Idiot
My Dad was walking by the Rainbow Room about ten years ago and Al walked out. He stopped for a picture and was really nice, took his time to talk to my dad and my little brother.
Sweet Zombie Jebus, it's good to hear that speech.
Norm Coleman was a plague on our system and I'm glad he's out of office. I hope his legal troubles ease somewhat now that he's no longer representing me.
Franken didn't need to run for the Senate; he was more than comfortable with his life as it was. He did it in the memory of his friend Paul Wellstone and in the spirit of citizenship.
Funny story: While canvassing for Obama, I got teamed up with Franken's professional dog walker. They shelled out big bucks for this nice woman to walk their gigantic dog three times a day (Frannie is a little slip of a thing and would've been dragged for miles had she tried to walk that dog). I advised her to maybe not be so open about the fact that Franken has enough money for 3-a-day dog walking service, but to focus on his generous spirit or whatnot.
Everything Al has done since Paul Wellstone was assassinated has been rooted in his admiration of the man and his feeling that someone had to try to carry on the work. When Al talks about Paul, I feel like both of us are about to break down in sobs.
Paul is smiling somewhere today. Way to go, Senator Franken! Now go get 'em.
Man, part of me would love to believe that, if only so that someday someone might pay for it, but let's stick to the known truth.
MyDD is better without conspiracy theories.
I knew the co-pilot personally.
That doesn't mean anything by itself.
...you're not thinking hard enough.
I can only imagine that you're obliquely admitting to sabotaging the plane at this point. It's getting surreal.
No, but I think I know who did. But it's just a theory.
Well spill it out. If you are going to throw around such an inflammatory remark, please back it up. What is the friend's role in this?
Victim, just like the others. Sheesh. Pretty obvious, I'd say, since he was smashed to bits.
Exactly, so what makes you think it was an assassination? Did he speak to your from the dead? Or did his family reveal stuff to you in confidence? If it is latter, you do not have to spill out the details, but the least you can do is shed some light on what makes you think so.
Only an hour after first responders arrived on the crash site at 11 a.m., the FBI materialized on the scene. In other words, they would have departed from St. Paul at 9:30--when Wellstone's plane was taking off.
After possibly spiriting away the cockpit voice recorder, the FBI announced the crash wasn't the work of terrorists. Meanwhile, the National Traffic Safety Board's lead investigator, Frank Hildrup, when asked why there was no public hearing, responded that they were reserved for "high profile cases."
As for the cause, at first the NTSB blamed icy conditions. However, when the plane didn't land at the Eveleth-Virginia (Minnesota) Airport, its assistant manager, Gary Ulman, had no qualms about immediately taking off to search for the crash site. Others, such as National Center for Atmospheric Research meteorologist Ben Bernstein, downplayed the icing theory as well.
Besides, the Beechcraft King Air A-10 boasted an elaborate de-icing system--you learn a lot about aviation in this book--such as pneumatic de-icing boots that inflate and deflate to break ice from the leading edges of the wing and tail. And when the King Air's maintenance records turned out to be in order, mechanical problems, along with the icy conditions, were disqualified as causes.
The NTSB then turned to the highly rated pilot, Richard Conry, a favorite of Wellstone's who had passed an FAA flight check two days before. Sixty seconds after his last conversation with the ground, during which he reported no problems, the King Air began drifting south, whereas a normal landing would have continued straight west. In other words, discounting his turn in the opposite direction before crashing, the NTSB adopted the conclusion that Conry and co-pilot Michael Guess's approach was too slow, stalling the plane and causing it to crash.
But even if the pilots failed to check airspeed and altitude--an almost unimaginable lapse--they would have been alerted by an alarm in plenty of time to regain speed. In other words, by arriving at this conclusion the NTSB demonstrated the same lack of concern for public scrutiny as the FBI did when it arrived early at the crash scene. More likely, the authors maintain, the King Air lost airspeed and altitude because the pilots were unable to control it.
But wait, THERE"S MORE!
One short of 60...if Franken get seated sooner than later, he could really help in dealing with McConnell's obstructionism.
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid yielded to Republican threats and agreed on Monday not to immediately seat fellow Democrat Al Franken, whose razor-close victory in Minnesota faces legal challenges.
Reid, GOP love child, bends over yet again.
REPLACE HIM WITH A FIGHTER!
For some real fun try this article over at Congress Matters. It's a discussion of the rules that can be messed with by the Dems with a simple majority vote only at the beginning of the session (and at no other time). Fun reading.
A move like this
could would tie the R's in knots for awhile.
I actually think this is wise of Reid right now. Give Norm a little space to back down, don't push him to the mat.
Norm has a shot at governor in 2010 because the risk to Pawlenty's ambitions are just to high for him to chance another reelection. So Norm could walk into the nomination with the mantle of a stolen election. But he will not be forgiven if he drags this out. Mark Kennedy destroyed his Senate chances with the campaign he ran against Patty Wetterling. Wendy Anderson destroyed his political future by appointing himself to the Senate. Minnesotans will turn on a politician they think didn't play nice, even if they played legal.
Not with Franken hanging around as a reminder of how he lost with only 42% of the vote as an incumbant, with a bribery scandal hot on his heels. It's not like the Democrats would take him in like the Republicans did a decade ago.
Kline would have a far better chance. Hell, at this point I'd say that Barkley has a better chance at becoming governor in 2010.
Kline would get his head cut off if he ever came north of Burnsville. Ramstead would be the one.
But I think you downplay the romance of the stolen election background. Nixon and Gore found out how well it worked with their base. The Norm as a RINO would be discounted by the base while he could exploit it to the rest of the electorate. With the local Media already on record confusing political opportunism with bi-partisanship I think Norm could have a strong chance. Remember it will be a fight on the DFL side and so the Republican will have months to run above the fray.
The stolen election fairytale didn't work for Dino Rossi! In my experience the moderates get tired of hearing the deadenders go on and on about that sort of thing.
Nobody's got much pity for Mike Hatch, despite the fact that he lost by 1% because the media jumped on him because of an unguarded moment from the Lt. Gov. nominee and the vote for Not Pawlenty was over 50%.
I don't see much sympathy going Norm's way, especially not after this hissyfit.
I would be much more supportive of Reid's behavior if he would take the opportunity to point out the difference between this and the Florida debacle. The only thing I can figure is that all those blue dogs are blue from hiding under their desk and holding their breath until any complaining constituent goes away. Then they immediately come out and nip at Harry's heels until he gives in because they're so damn annoying.
he was not exactly doing well in the polls (compared to Obama running in double digits ahead of McCain) when HRC went to MN to do some rallies and raise money for him...
...I was, however, at the rally just before the election with The Big Dog himself, and it was proven yet again that Bill Clinton is one of the most talented speakers of our time.
Seriously, the guy had us enthralled for a full hour with no notes and no teleprompter. He basically laid down the case for why we all needed to go out and doorknock for Obama AND Franken.
I think we all did.
I just KNEW that if we kept counting...and kept counting...and kept counting...we were BOUND to win!!!
"Remember the first rule of politics...
...ballots don't make the results...
..the counters do. Keep counting!"
I'm thrilled by this, but on pragmatic level, I don't think that we are gonna get to truly relish this victory anytime soon.
Coleman's gonna drag this thing out as long as humanly possible, and I have no reason to believe that he'll concede until he's literally exhausted every legal option available. Pushes for him to concede from 49.92% of Minnesotans will be counterbalanced by 49.91% of Minnesotans telling him to fight to the death. And the fear of being politically ruined won't sway him in the slightest... if, or rather when, he loses this thing, he's toast, regardless of whether it occurs in a few hours, or in a few months. He's literally got nothing to lose by dragging this thing out forever. There is no benefit to a swift concession, but I imagine he's being convinced by his people that hanging on until the bitter end might give him a teeny-tiny chance of emerging victorious.
That said, congratulations, Senator-elect Franken, and hopefully we'll get to see you on the Senate floor before June.
I lived in MN for a few winters. They are a little backward about things, and don't really like drama from sore losers. It is what it is. Coleman will fold or be folded.
...you hit it on the nose about not liking sore losers... or sore winners, for that matter.
Drama: it's not what's for dinner in Minnesota.
Waiting to see what Sore Loser Coleman does in Minnesota
It is interesting that, in November, Norm Coleman was suggesting that Al Franken concede graciously when it looked like the Republican had a very small lead. Now, as we can see, the now certified loser won't take his own advice and is going to take the results to court in the face of Franken's 225 point lead.
Governor Pawlenty (a Republican) and Secretary of State Ritchie (a Democrat) haven't yet signed the Certification as pronounced yesterday by the state Canvassing Board, so the Senate minority led by Mitch McConnell is putting up opposition to seating Franken, which means he won't be sworn in today. While no problem is anticipated with Ritchie's signature, Pawlenty may hold until Coleman takes this to the US Supreme Court. This could go on for months and get very expensive.
In the long run, this will make Coleman, who, with his staff, was locked out of the Senate offices that he held by the Rules Committee (his term officially ends Saturday), look even worse. Why the Minnesota Republican Party wants the state to spend this amount of money for what is likely to be embarrassing results, is a mystery.
I am very happy with this victory.
I really like Al Franken on a personal human level. I have no doubt of his integrity and his commitment to the best things about our country. I loved Paul Wellstone and to have his friend reclaim the seat means a lot to me...
(I was saddened to read on this board many comments putting down Franken since the election. It may be true that a different democratic candidate might have done better but I dont think that says anything bad about Franken the man but rather it says a lot about people's preconceived notions of what a politician's background should be and what is permissible prior to running [apparently you can't tell jokes].)
Seriously, though. Why didn't Franken sweep the floor with Coleman?
Minnesotans wanted change just not too much.
If you look at the senate and the house races you will see that in Minnesota outside of the presidential level the election was a push, everybody held serve.
Part of that was Obama's post-partisan message allowed some republicans to play as more moderate then their opponents. Part of it was that the local media has been drifting to the right and people are still thinking it is still a tad to the left. A lot of it was the scorched earth nature of the campaign. Some also came from the internal DFL tensions where both the progressive and the establishment wings of the party resented an outsider.
And finally I don't think people realize just how much the financial crisis helped Republicans.
Why didn't Jim Webb sweep the floor with George Allen? Unseating an incumbent is always hard, and even if you think Franken says all the right things, he doesn't exactly have the sort of resume that establishes instant credibility. Meanwhile Coleman is a snake-oil salesman who has done a credible job of portraying himself as a faux moderate. I would have been disappointed, but not surprised in the slightest, if this one had turned out as a near miss.
(it was snark)
Sorry, I assumed "seriously" was a signifier that you weren't snarking for once.
with me, it's shades of snark, but always snark. There is plenty of 'serious' here, I couldn't improve on that so I don't try. (I do actually think Pappy Bush and his frat brothers have mastered assassination through aviation, though. But nobody takes that seriously, anyway.)